ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURY IN DUDLEY

Express & Star

Archbishop Justin Welby paid a visit to Dudley to visit a church service and talk to parishners.

Transcript

00:00 [indistinct chatter]

00:05 Roughly.

00:06 Roughly, yes.

00:07 We have our long-term plan and our priorities as I mentioned them,

00:12 but we really know that they need to be surrounded in prayer, prayed for constantly

00:18 and we want to pray particularly for church renewal and revitalisation.

00:22 Any tips on how best to do that?

00:27 Yes, I suppose from my own mistakes over the years.

00:32 There's an old saying that a lot of you will know,

00:36 you know, general in the 19th century who says,

00:39 "No strategy survives, no plan survives engagement with the enemy."

00:46 Things happen and there was a boxer, a very well-known boxer in the States,

00:50 who said, "Everybody's got a plan until they're punched on the chin."

00:55 Which is an underweight but pretty accurate.

00:59 So I think the great thing as we pray for long-term plans,

01:03 it's an engagement, it's a relationship.

01:05 God's the boss.

01:07 So we come to Him and say, "This is what we're doing."

01:11 But we're always open to God's hand on the wheel to change the course.

01:17 And the one thing I never say is stop praying, but you might say,

01:22 "But we might have a sense that we need to put more effort here and less there,"

01:26 whatever it happens to be.

01:28 And always include prayer and thanksgiving.

01:32 Between each section of my prayers, I spend time saying to God how I love Him

01:40 and how I'm amazed by Him.

01:42 And it's extraordinary that as you think about who God is and what He does,

01:48 how it lifts your spirit.

01:52 And you realize that this is quite a big thing.

01:56 I'm talking to the person who created the universe,

01:59 and I haven't even had to make an appointment.

02:02 And so listen, praise, and give thanks.

02:10 Be really pitilessly honest.

02:14 Look at the Psalms.

02:16 Psalm 44, the big Psalms of protest include or lament, include 22, 44, and 88.

02:30 And if there was 160, 76, whatever it is, 280, 176, I'm sure it would be the same.

02:37 But 22, 44, and 88, in Psalm 44, the psalmist is really fed up with God.

02:48 And he says, or she says, who knows, the psalmist says in Psalm 44,

02:57 "You know, we haven't done anything special wrong, and you seem to have stopped helping us.

03:01 What's up? What have we done wrong?

03:05 Either show us or show up and do something."

03:08 And then you can see, as the psalmist is writing the psalm, they get crosser and crosser.

03:14 You know how sometimes you work yourself up?

03:17 And the psalmist is doing it.

03:19 So they get to about verse 20, 22, somewhere around there, and they say,

03:24 "You know, you're a rubbish businessman.

03:28 You've sold your people, and you haven't even made any money.

03:33 You're just useless."

03:36 And then they go on getting more and more irritated.

03:41 And they get a few verses in, "Are you asleep? Wake up!"

03:46 Now, that's honesty.

03:49 And if it's in the Bible, then it's okay.

03:52 So, be honest.

03:55 You know, I've been to a church regularly six months, and it's only tripled in size.

04:01 Don't you think you can do anything?

04:04 You're meant to be the Lord of the Universe.

04:07 Thank you. That's really helpful, and I'm sure many here will find that helpful.

04:11 I sometimes get frustrated that the people in the church don't pray very much for growth.

04:18 I'm not sure that they want to see growth.

04:21 How can we inspire people and encourage people to pray more for growth in our churches?

04:28 Well, the Bible reading we just had in the Gospels is the last commandment of Jesus in Matthew,

04:35 "Go and make disciples."

04:38 Well, if he says, "Go and make disciples," he's not saying it in order to abandon us.

04:45 So, we pray for growth because we know that that is what God wants.

04:52 And he wants it because he loves the people around him.

04:56 He loves the people of Dutton. He loves everyone in the world, even the really bad ones, the worst ones.

05:03 He loves us even though he knows everything about us.

05:07 And so when we're praying for growth, we know we're praying in the will of God.

05:15 So, that's one thing.

05:18 The second thing is it's the most exciting thing in the world.

05:22 That when you see someone come to know Jesus Christ, and you see their life bit by bit being put in order,

05:32 and that they realize at the end, particularly people towards the end of their lives.

05:38 I was talking to someone at an hospice this morning about someone who works at a hospice.

05:43 Well, my experience for hospices is that this is a vote because people are going to be with God.

05:49 And I remember my mum had a pretty rocky life up and down, spent a lot of time with problems with alcohol.

05:59 And she came back, she was in a state mental hospital when I was about 12, for several months.

06:06 And in that hospital, one of the head chief porter there led her to faith in Christ.

06:13 And she stayed faithful to Christ all the rest of her life. She died last night.

06:19 Last thing I remember I heard clearly that she said was, "I will see God."

06:27 Now, when you're facing death, to say, "I will see God," is about as good as it gets.

06:38 I mean, that is amazing.

06:41 And to have that confidence.

06:43 And so we pray for growth because we want people to get to the end of their lives

06:48 and be full of confidence that this is a step into eternity of love and hope.

06:55 We want people in this world to be full of growth, wanting to reach out to those around.

07:02 And we pray for growth most of all because God gave his son Jesus Christ

07:08 so that everyone could know God and be saved and come to eternal life.

07:36 Just found the Archbishop there. A big topic at the moment is renewal of the church.

07:40 We were talking today about bringing communities back into these beautiful buildings that we find ourselves around.

07:46 Congregations might not be as full as they were previously in some churches.

07:49 Top Church, I think, is very much an exception to that rule.

07:52 People are finding other ways to practice their faith as well.

07:54 What are your hopes for the Church of England in the next few years?

07:57 I think my hopes are that there's more places like Top Church.

08:01 That the Church of England is not built on its bishops, let alone its archbishops, thank goodness.

08:08 It's built on its parishes, its local churches, its chaplains, its hospitals,

08:14 in the armed services, in the prisons, in the universities, the schools.

08:19 And we are seeing literally thousands of new worshipping communities starting and growing like this.

08:28 And I think they will grow and spread.

08:32 The love of Christ is very infectious and very helpful.

08:37 Brilliant. Thank you.

08:39 Do you mind if I just have a very quick...

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