PH-China's territorial dispute

CNN Philippines

Join our chief correspondent and anchor Pia Hontiveros on #PoliticsAsUsual — your weekly political appointment fix.  No end in sight on Philippine and China's verbal tussle over rising tensions in the West Philippine Sea.  Philippine officials have filed diplomatic protests against Beijing for its supposed violations of international maritime law but Beijing turns the table and blames Manila for its actions on the disputed territories.  President Bongbong Marcos has already turned down calls to send the Chinese ambassador back home.   Visit our website for more #NewsYouCanTrust: https://www.cnnphilippines.com/  Follow our social media pages:  • Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CNNPhilippines • Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cnnphilippines/ • Twitter: https://twitter.com/cnnphilippines

Transcript

00:00 No end in sight for Manila and Beijing's verbal tussle over rising tensions in the West Philippine

00:12 Sea.

00:13 Philippine officials have filed diplomatic protests against Beijing for its supposed

00:18 violations of international maritime law, but China turns the tables and blames Manila

00:25 for its actions in disputed territory.

00:28 President Wong Bong Marcos has already turned down calls to send the Chinese ambassador

00:33 back home.

00:34 "He's the ambassador of China, so he will always take the Chinese position.

00:40 It doesn't serve any purpose for us to lose our temper or to overreact.

00:46 If that's what the Chinese ambassador wants to give us, then it's not ours.

00:52 If he's really objectionable, you can make it known to Beijing.

00:57 But I think Ambassador Wong is just doing his job."

01:02 Good evening, I'm Tianta Veroz, welcome to your weekly political appointment fix, politics

01:22 as usual.

01:23 Joining me tonight via Zoom is the Philippine Ambassador Extraordinary Antiplenipotean

01:28 Sherry to the Republic of Turkey with concurrent designation and jurisdiction to the Republic

01:33 of Azerbaijan and Georgia, Henry Ben Surto Jr.

01:37 Good evening, Ambassador Ben Surto.

01:39 Thank you very much for being with us tonight.

01:41 Hi, good evening, Tia, and good evening to your viewers.

01:46 Ambassador, a good part of your years as a career diplomat has been devoted to the West

01:51 Philippine Sea and the study of it and dealing with it.

01:54 You were Assistant Secretary of the West Philippine Sea Center of the DFA, the Department of Foreign

01:58 Affairs, also Secretary General of the Commission on Maritime and Ocean Affairs Secretariat,

02:04 which was a cabinet-level interagency coordinating body of the law of the sea.

02:09 And pardon my very long intro, but this is what's going to preface my question.

02:15 You've been recognized for your groundbreaking work in Philippine maritime security and disputes

02:24 in the West Philippine Sea.

02:26 You received the presidential order of La Candula for your foreign policy contributions.

02:31 My question really is, and all this means that you're the very up-close, very personal,

02:39 in-your-face look at how to deal with Beijing and how Beijing deals with us and the rest

02:45 of the world.

02:46 What is that one thing you have learned about China to help us understand why it acts the

02:52 way it does?

02:53 If water cannons are vessels, it uses military-grade laser, at least their Coast Guard or their

02:59 maritime militia vessels, why are they doing that?

03:03 Help us understand that.

03:05 Well, first, thank you, Tia.

03:10 To your question, why they're doing what they're doing and what we should do, if there's anything

03:16 that from my perspective, I can reduce it to one lesson.

03:20 One, we have to be consistent.

03:22 We have to show commitment because we are on the right.

03:26 China knows it's not on the right.

03:29 This has been proven with a third-party adjudication.

03:32 But if China is convinced that we ourselves are not convinced and we are not committed

03:40 and that we cannot sustain this in the long run, then there will always be a reason for

03:45 China, despite the fact that they know that they are not on the right side, despite the

03:50 fact that they don't know that they know that they are not on the right.

03:55 They will persist and they will continue, precisely because in any negotiation, even

04:00 if one side knows that it's not right, but if it is on the belief that it can change

04:08 the position of the other party, then it will persist on that wrong point.

04:14 That's why it's very critical for any negotiator, for our country, for the entire nation, to

04:21 show consistency and to show commitment, always within the box of peaceful settlement.

04:28 So are we showing consistency and commitment?

04:30 Are we showing that we are convinced?

04:33 And does China recognize that?

04:35 Because it looks like it doesn't.

04:37 Because no matter how many diplomatic protests, whatever kind of complaints, you know, pinapa-summon

04:43 si Ambassador Wang Shilian sa DFA, kung ano-ano'ng ipinaretingna ni Ambassador Jaime Flores Cruz

04:53 in Beijing, it just keeps happening again and again and again.

04:57 So is it possible that they're not convinced that we are consistent and committed?

05:04 I think, Pia, one mistake of many administrations, of many leaders, because I've been in this

05:10 issue for a long time, and normally every leader or every administration will always

05:16 be limited by their tenure or their term, which sometimes it's four years, six years.

05:22 But in the case of China, it's always long term.

05:25 And that's why they have the ability to sustain and to be consistent with their position for

05:30 a long run.

05:31 It enables them to have a strategic perspective of the issue.

05:38 What I'm saying here is this.

05:40 I think we should not fall on the error that things can be solved overnight on a period

05:45 of three years or five years or six years.

05:48 This is going to be a long haul struggle.

05:51 And it's going to be there for a long time.

05:54 What we have to do is look at it from a very strategic perspective, a policy that transcends

06:01 political administrations.

06:02 Administrations, yes.

06:03 And for every political administration to remain committed, constant, and consistent,

06:09 working on that strategic objective.

06:13 And that's why it's very important that we have to overhaul our mindset that this can

06:19 be solved, we're not able to solve this in one negotiation, then we have to change.

06:27 No, we have to look at it from a very long term perspective.

06:32 And this is how we will show our consistency and commitment.

06:35 And we have all the reason to be so because we are on the right.

06:39 And us being right is not because we say we are right.

06:43 We are right because a third party adjudicator said so in accordance with international law.

06:50 We are right because a third party adjudicator said that the West Philippine Sea belongs

06:56 to the Philippines.

06:57 Mr. Ambassador, I was about to say, I was about to ask you about this strategic perspective

07:04 that will outlive any and all administrations.

07:08 So for example, now, Marcos administration.

07:11 Prior to this, we had Rodrigo Duterte, who was very friendly with Beijing.

07:16 Prior to that, we had Noy Noy Aquino, not very friendly.

07:20 What you're saying is that as long as, you know, if we had sustained the Aquino administration's

07:25 position, because at that time, that was when he was filed in the international tribunal,

07:31 he should have been continuously, he should not have been replaced by Rodrigo Duterte

07:36 because he just wanted to.

07:38 Correct, sir?

07:39 Yes?

07:40 And then we'll go into an explanation after the break.

07:42 Yes, Pia, the short answer to that is yes.

07:47 What we have to do is understand first the situation.

07:50 What is the right thing to do?

07:52 What is the rule of law?

07:53 Once we have made a decision on that consistent with our national interest, we have to now

07:59 set our objectives.

08:02 When we are able to know our objectives, then we answer the next question, how do we get

08:07 to there?

08:08 And in the context of going to those objectives, we have to make clear to every political administration

08:18 that this is the national interest of the country and that this national interest should

08:25 be beyond partisan politics.

08:27 Right, right.

08:28 Or first...

08:29 The West Philippine Sea issue is a non-partisan issue and all Filipinos, the entire nation,

08:35 should put its support to the president in this struggle.

08:39 So it should be beyond political partisanship and personal preference, no matter how a president

08:46 feels about Beijing, whether friendly or not.

08:49 We'll be back after a quick break with Ambassador Ben Surto.

08:52 Stay tuned.

09:00 Welcome back.

09:01 This is Politics As Usual.

09:02 Still with us, Ambassador Henry Ben Surto, Jr.

09:04 Ambassador Ben Surto, a while ago you were explaining that China has to be convinced

09:09 that we ourselves are convinced that we are in the right.

09:11 I was asking you earlier, is China convinced?

09:14 So is China convinced or are they... and to put it very informally, are they changing

09:21 us in so many words?

09:24 Because we're coming from a Rodrigo Duterte administration that was so, so sweet and warm

09:30 to Beijing.

09:32 And then now here, wait a minute, you know, BBM is saying, wait a minute, wait a minute,

09:36 friends to all, enemy to none, right?

09:39 And then it changed.

09:40 The heat of the air changed.

09:42 So is China changing and they're still not convinced that we are convinced, that we are

09:48 right?

09:49 And they, you know, they're still trying to figure this out and they're wondering, what

09:54 is Manila doing?

09:55 Why is it like this?

09:56 Is that how it is?

09:57 Or is that too simplistic an explanation?

10:00 Actually, Pia, I'm very grateful that you asked this question.

10:06 And your question is actually very fundamental and very important.

10:10 If I may say, and if I may be very straightforward, a perceived weakness, if China is to look

10:17 at the Philippines, a perceived weakness on the part of the Philippines is our lack of

10:21 consistency.

10:23 You mentioned the previous administration, but maybe we need to kind of broaden the spectrum.

10:29 Let's go back to the period in the 1990s when the mischief review happened.

10:35 When mischief review happened, actually, at first we tried to articulate robustly and

10:42 then later on when their president came here, Jiang Shimin, we suddenly shifted to appeasement,

10:51 if you remember.

10:52 And then later on, we thought this is okay.

10:56 But later on, it did not turn out to be well.

11:00 And so we shifted again.

11:01 And every time, every time, there is that shift.

11:06 And that perceived shifting every now and then has become a perspective from the Chinese

11:15 that it is a weakness on our part, that we are not certain about our stand, that we are

11:20 willing to compromise depending on the political atmosphere.

11:24 This is something that China is trying actually to exploit to their advantage, because they

11:32 have come to the mindset, they have come to the mindset that even if they are wrong, but

11:38 because they see that the Philippines will actually be, will actually waver in the future,

11:44 given the right atmosphere and the right candies, then we can change them.

11:52 And so therefore, there is no urgency on the part of China, therefore, to give up something,

11:59 even if they know they are wrong, because why change when you know that you can change

12:04 the other person on the other side of the table.

12:08 And this is something that we have to look into and address in the long run.

12:14 We have to be able now to show that consistency and that commitment, regardless of whatever

12:21 political administration is in power.

12:24 And I think the president now, in a very prudent way, has, and he mentioned this and used the

12:31 word paradigm shift, and this is the shift in the right direction.

12:36 And I think we just have to sustain this, and the people will have to rally behind the

12:41 president on this.

12:43 And it is also very important to take note, I heard the president in his interview, he's

12:49 actually making a distinction between his personal emotions from the national interest.

12:56 And I think that's a very good indication of the character of the president that he

13:00 brings into the table.

13:02 We cannot look at this issue from an emotional perspective.

13:06 We have to look at it objectively, prudently, but with consistency, with conviction and

13:12 commitment.

13:13 Ambassador.

13:14 And be very smart about it.

13:17 Ambassador, you're referring to the words that the president said, we cannot be angry,

13:24 we cannot overreact.

13:25 We'll take our last break.

13:26 Ambassador Ben Surtio, we'll be right back.

13:27 More from him when we return.

13:28 This is Politics Is Usual.

13:29 You're still on the air.

13:30 I'm here with the president of the United States, Ambassador Ben Surtio.

13:31 I'm here with the president of the United States, Ambassador Ben Surtio.

13:32 I'm here with the president of the United States, Ambassador Ben Surtio.

13:33 I'm here with the president of the United States, Ambassador Ben Surtio.

13:34 I'm here with the president of the United States, Ambassador Ben Surtio.

13:35 I'm here with the president of the United States, Ambassador Ben Surtio.

13:36 I'm here with the president of the United States, Ambassador Ben Surtio.

13:37 You're still on Politics As Usual.

13:48 Our guest, Ambassador Ben Surtio.

13:51 Ambassador, is it also our fault, in so many words?

13:56 Because what happens is we cannot occupy our territory and therefore informal settlers

14:02 come in, and that's what happens in this country anyway.

14:08 Isn't that how you stake your claim on property?

14:10 You build, and therefore you don't leave it idle, and that signals consistency and commitment.

14:18 So shouldn't we, for example, be building on Ayungin Shore or any other feature, although

14:23 we do occupy others?

14:26 But the significant Ayungin, for example, shouldn't we be building instead of just relying

14:32 on joint patrols with allies, for example?

14:38 Thank you, Pia, for that.

14:41 From my perspective, and all of these that you mentioned, these are all tools.

14:48 And we have to look at our toolbox and look at all the available tools that we can use

14:55 and be able to calibrate them at the right time with the right calibration.

15:02 And so they have to be looked at also, not in their isolated situation, but they have

15:09 to be looked at in the context of the totality.

15:13 And from there, we craft our strategy.

15:17 What is the available tool at the right moment?

15:21 How do we calibrate that in terms of tone and leverage that with what?

15:29 So the alliance, the multilateral, so it's not just a bilateral aspect.

15:35 It is not just a multilateral aspect.

15:37 It is also internationalization.

15:40 It is also minimum credible defense posture.

15:43 All of these, we should not exclude anything and be able to structure them in a systematic

15:52 way so that we know how to calibrate them at the right time, at the right moment.

15:59 So those are the things that we have to factor in when we go to the tabletop exercise.

16:08 I just want to take note, Pia, one.

16:11 Every administration, they have, well, it's normal for every administration to try to

16:18 solve these and to try to experiment, always in good faith of trying to settle these.

16:23 And for the several administrations that we had in the past, we did experiment several

16:30 frameworks.

16:32 But what is certain now is that the framework of putting all our eggs in one basket, which

16:38 is bilateral, does not work.

16:41 This we all know now.

16:43 We also know that appeasement is not a correct approach because instead of settling the issue,

16:50 it actually aggravates the moment and places the situation in a more conflicted manner.

16:57 Because at the end of the day, when you look at the conflict or the dispute in the South

17:01 China Sea, it is not just a dispute on the features.

17:06 It is about mindset.

17:09 And this is very important.

17:11 That as we go into the issue of South China Sea and West Philippine Sea, this is really

17:17 a question also of mindset.

17:20 And in that battle of mindsets, we have to be able to project the right-- we ourselves

17:26 must first develop the right mindset.

17:29 And I mentioned one, that one, we have to be convinced that this is not short term,

17:34 that this is going to be long haul.

17:36 Third, we have to have a strategy that transcends.

17:40 Fourth, we must be able to show that condition and commitment in all available fora, either

17:48 within ASEAN, either in bilateral discussions, either in track one or track two or track

17:54 three or track 1.5.

17:57 We have to be able to show that consistency.

17:59 And we have to be able to show that consistency among and all the different branches.

18:04 This is not just a matter for the Department of National Defense.

18:07 This is not just a matter for the Coast Guard.

18:09 This is not just a matter for the Department of Foreign Affairs.

18:13 This is something that will have to be taken in a comprehensive way by all actors that

18:22 are there, including the entire nation.

18:25 And so it starts with our mindset.

18:28 And once we are sure about that mindset, we have to be able to project that.

18:32 We have one advantage in this battle of mindset.

18:35 That advantage, Pia, is that we won the third party adjudication in the tribunal in terms

18:43 of what is right and what is wrong, what is ours and what is not ours.

18:48 And if you look at it very closely, a person, if I'm going to reduce this to a person, a

18:54 person who knows he is on the right will always have the conviction and the commitment to

18:59 do what is right.

19:00 But on the other side, a person who knows he is not right, he may project that he is

19:11 committed to that.

19:12 But over a period of time, that will be eroded and that will erode.

19:17 And the same is true in the South China Sea.

19:21 Now China is trying to show that it is committed to this, but it knows in all sincerity that

19:28 they are in the wrong.

19:29 And that's why you will see in terms of international support, they're losing all that.

19:34 And that's why, because they could not get that international support, they are utilizing

19:38 other tools that are available to them, including the use of their military power, et cetera.

19:50 And so we have to be able to look at this from that perspective.

19:53 But that mindset, eventually, once we're able to project that mindset, that commitment,

20:00 eventually it will have an implication.

20:03 But we should not be rushing this.

20:06 We have to have the perseverance.

20:08 We have to be patient as well.

20:10 And we have to have that sustainability regardless of the changes in political administrations.

20:16 Perseverance, consistency, commitment, just as you said, Ambassador Henry Ben Surto, Jr.

20:23 Sir, thank you very much for being with us tonight.

20:26 We've been told before, don't talk politics at the dinner table or the family reunion

20:30 or in vibrant groups and risk warfare, digital or otherwise.

20:34 But we can talk about it here at this table on this show, your weekly political appointment

20:38 fix, politics as usual.

20:40 I'm Pia Untu-Vettel.

20:41 See you back here next Wednesday, 8 p.m.

20:43 Sports Desk with Andrei Felix is next.

20:45 [Music]

Category

Transcript

Comments

Recommended