00:00 Good evening and welcome to SM&I. You're watching Business and Politics. I'm your host, Dante
00:05 Klingkang. Our guest this evening is the Executive Director of ICCPI, or the Italian Chamber
00:11 of Commerce in the Philippines, Incorporated, Mr. Loren Zuller. The Italian Chamber is a
00:15 non-profit organization facilitating business relationships between the Philippines and
00:19 Italy. Part of its mission is to strengthen the business community and cooperation across
00:24 the Philippines and Southeast Asia. Besides his responsibilities at the Chamber, which
00:28 he assumed in 2016, Mr. Zuller is also the Co-Founder and Managing Director of the Infrastructure
00:34 and Construction Focus Group. He has worked in various management roles for several multinational
00:39 corporations and has served as Managing Director of a leading property brokerage firm based
00:43 in Dubai and Italy, and was the Chairman of a real estate investment fund from Dubai.
00:48 Our guest is not new to the Philippines. He moved here in 2011 when he served as a Director
00:53 for Corporate Affairs of the Italpines Development Corporation. We'll ask him about the Chamber's
00:58 work to bring the Philippines and Italy closer together. Italy is an important part in the
01:02 Philippines. Bilateral trade between the two countries was at 1.09 billion Euros as of
01:07 2019. Italy hosts 165,000 Filipino migrant workers, and like the firm that our guest
01:13 represents, there are many Italian investors here. We'll ask Mr. Zuller, what opportunities
01:18 does the Chamber members see in the Philippines, and what can be done to strengthen its partnership
01:22 with Italy?
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02:01 Mr. Lawrence Zuller, thank you for making time for Business and Politics and welcome
02:05 to the show.
02:06 Thank you very much for having me.
02:08 Well, you know, I have known you for a while, so if you don't mind, I'd like to call you
02:11 Lawrence.
02:12 Yes, of course.
02:13 So, tell us about the Italian Chamber, because, you know, most people would probably recognize
02:18 that there's a very big, very active European Chamber of Commerce, but you guys have been
02:23 around for a while, and we were talking before the show, you have around 100 members in your
02:30 Chamber.
02:31 Yes.
02:32 So, why are they here?
02:33 Well, first of all, let's debunk that myth of Europe, because if you look at Europe,
02:39 Europe is very fragmented.
02:40 Okay.
02:41 So, we have a lot of countries. We have Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Poland, as main countries,
02:48 now, maybe, geographically, even Britain would be part of it, now, politically, now, with
02:55 Brexit, not anymore.
02:57 Sure.
02:58 So, Italians really identify with the Italian Chamber of Commerce, not with the European
03:06 one.
03:07 Okay.
03:08 That, to say, or to underline how fragmented it is, it's not like the United States or
03:16 other big, kind of, Russia, for example.
03:19 Right.
03:20 There is a lot of Italians here. I think a few went back during the pandemic.
03:26 Okay.
03:27 From, generally, people identify Italy like pizza, pasta, so food and beverage, wine.
03:35 Wine, yeah.
03:36 Cars, with Ferrari, Lamborghini, or motorbikes, with Piaggio di Vespa.
03:42 Right.
03:43 Or Ducati, for example.
03:44 Right.
03:45 Or fashion. We have a lot of brands in fashion, as well. But, of course, Italy is much more
03:53 than that.
03:54 Absolutely.
03:55 Italy is one of the biggest producers of machinery, for example, to manufacturing machineries,
04:05 to produce, for example, steel. We had Steel Asia buy a whole line of Daniele, just recently,
04:13 which underlines the excellence that Italy has in various sectors.
04:20 And we have a lot of small investors that come to the Philippines to open resorts or
04:26 restaurants. We have companies who are in the software sector, or even services, let's
04:36 call it like that. Logistics. Many, several Italian companies are here with their fridges,
04:45 industrial fridges, so serving the cold chain. So there is a very big variety of companies
04:53 and activities which Italians do in the Philippines.
04:58 Would you say that the Philippines is in the radar of Italians looking around the world
05:04 for economic opportunities? Because in this region, China, of course, is practically next
05:10 door to the Philippines. And there are many other countries in the region that are doing
05:15 well in attracting foreign investors, Singapore being one of them. How far or how close are
05:22 we from, I guess, the mainstream thought of Italian businessmen?
05:32 Let's say like that. The ASEAN, in general, has actually caught the eye of major economies.
05:41 And so we see a very big interest from Europe in general, and also from Italy, towards ASEAN.
05:49 We know that classically, or typically, the investment hubs here in the region are Hong
05:57 Kong and Singapore. And those companies who have already been here for a while, out of
06:06 Hong Kong or Singapore, they see the Philippines as just an added market, an add-on market.
06:14 And those who have not been here are definitely interested to come now to this region because
06:20 of the macroeconomic data that this region is showing. We are probably going to have
06:27 the highest growth worldwide. And with a very low population in general, which guarantees
06:37 this growth long term, makes it sustainable. That's why more and more companies are looking
06:44 at establishing themselves in the ASEAN.
06:48 That's interesting. I said in the introduction that there are about 165,000 Filipinos in
06:54 Italy, most of them, of course, domestic helpers. I believe the number is probably double than
07:00 that, if you take into account the undocumented workers. But the question is, how do they
07:08 represent the Philippines? Does that factor into maybe some Italians being curious about
07:13 the Philippines? Because one of the things I've noticed when I've been to Italy is how
07:18 different the Italians treat the Filipino workers there versus how Filipinos are treated,
07:23 say, in the Middle East. They're very close. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I see a lot of
07:29 similarities in the Filipino character and the Italian character. We have such a similar
07:35 joy of life. We were both very gregarious. We like food. We like friends.
07:42 I was wondering, does that somehow make Italians curious about the country where those workers
07:49 come from? Is that an advantage of the Philippines?
07:52 Okay, there is two things that I have to say. I can't remember which university they tried
07:59 to establish which foreigners in Italy fit in the easiest. They established that Filipinos
08:09 are the ones who fit in the easiest into the Italian society. Now, this has the following
08:16 reasons, and that is the second point. If you analyze history, and I discovered that
08:23 in a most curious way, I tell you that. I went to Naga City, and I sat in one of those
08:29 typical city restaurants. And so when I was looking at the menu, I saw one dish, which
08:36 was crispy tuna with sweet and sour onion. And I was staring at it. I said, "That cannot
08:44 be. This is the typical city dish of Palermo in Sicily."
08:48 Really? Wow.
08:50 So I started researching. And so what I found out is that during the time the so-called
08:55 Spanish came here to the Philippines, half of Italy, which was called the reign of the
09:00 two Sicilies, was under the flag of Spain.
09:04 I see.
09:05 So of course, the majority of the Jesuits, the Dominicans, and the other congregations,
09:12 most of them were Italians.
09:13 Were Italians.
09:14 And they brought here to the Philippines their way of life, their culinary taste, their-
09:21 That's so interesting.
09:22 Their culture, so to say. And that's why the south of Italy is very similar to the Philippines.
09:31 And so if you bring an Italian here, especially from the south, they will tell you they feel
09:36 at home immediately.
09:37 Well, I did notice that Italians drive the same way as Filipinos drive.
09:42 Yeah, in the south they do.
09:45 But I'm curious, what brought you here? I mean, I noticed from your background that
09:50 you work in construction, but you've been in other industries as well. What's your journey
09:55 like?
09:56 I was actually, by that time, living in Dubai. That was now post-economic crisis of 2008.
10:05 And I was also the managing director in the Middle East for the branding arm of Formitalia
10:15 Luxury Group. So basically I was representing Tonino Lamborghini Casa, and we were trying
10:23 to brand real estate towers. In fact, we had signed with a tower complex in Dubai.
10:31 And by that time, I heard that in the Philippines there were several branded towers coming up,
10:37 like the Trump Tower, Milano by Versace, and some others. And so I came here to meet this
10:45 developer, who was actually launching this project. And I had several meetings, and then
10:52 I was asked if I can stay a week or 10 days longer because he had a business trip. And
10:58 so I decided to stay. I started traveling around the Philippines, and I fell in love.
11:04 I postponed then for three weeks, three months, and now it's 13 years that I'm here.
11:11 Oh, wow.
11:12 And with the conviction that this is going to be my home for the rest of my life.
11:17 Was that 2011, or were you traveling here before, and then you settled for good in 2011?
11:22 2011.
11:23 2011.
11:24 I settled in 2011.
11:25 What were you doing in Naga, of all places?
11:27 Oh, I think that was I went to the marketing congress or something like that.
11:33 I see. Okay.
11:34 And so I came across this restaurant. And of course, my culinary curiosity as Italian
11:41 is always very much alive.
11:43 Right.
11:44 And that's...
11:45 Are you from Palermo, or what part of Italy you're from?
11:47 No, I'm actually from the opposite side of Italy, from the very north.
11:51 Okay.
11:52 Place called South Tyrol. We speak German. In fact, my surname reveals that I'm half
11:58 Italian, half German.
11:59 Okay.
12:00 And...
12:01 It's like the fashion capital of Italy.
12:04 That's in Milan.
12:05 That's Milan. Okay.
12:06 Yes. So where I come from is where you see the Dolomites, the mountains, where you go
12:11 skiing. And yeah, most of the people don't consider themselves actually as Italians,
12:18 but as South Tyrolean, with an Italian passport, of course.
12:22 Right. Did you have any Filipino friends in Italy? Were you exposed to anything Filipino
12:29 at all?
12:30 In Dubai.
12:31 Oh, in Dubai.
12:32 In Dubai, there's so many.
12:33 I don't know, maybe more than half a million.
12:35 Well, half of the population.
12:36 Half a million Filipinos.
12:37 Filipino, yeah.
12:38 All of our staff there, I think there were 10 of them, they were all Filipinos. So that's
12:45 where I got to know actually a little bit of the Philippines. But of course, I didn't
12:49 know what to expect before I took that flight.
12:52 Sure.
12:53 But something that I was curious about, you mentioned how Italians that come here, they
12:57 see things that are familiar with the cuisine and with the people. But I'm always amazed
13:02 also at how assimilated the Filipinos are in Italy. They seem to pick up the language.
13:09 Well, I mean, I don't speak Italian, but it sounds as if they get along fairly well. And
13:16 it's just curious how the relationships are, even between employer and employee. It's quite
13:22 different. I mean, it's almost as if they're family. I don't know if that's the general,
13:30 the typical relationship, or if I'm just seeing something that's different. What would you
13:35 say?
13:36 Well, Italy is a Catholic country.
13:40 Right. Another common thing.
13:42 And as for myself, having lived in various countries in the world, you can really see
13:48 the difference among people, how they treat themselves, how they talk to each other, how
13:55 they grow up their families. And so that similarity with the Philippines and with Filipinos is
14:02 very clear. That's why when the Filipino encounters the Italian, they feel that they belong somehow.
14:10 [silence]
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