- 26/09/2023
Cardiff City loss reaction as Sunderland stutter at home in Championship
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00:20 Hello, Sunderland fans.
00:34 Welcome to the Raw podcast brought to you by the Sunderland Echo.
00:38 My name's James Copley and I'm joined by my colleague Phil Smith.
00:41 Phil, how are things?
00:42 Yeah, very good, thank you.
00:44 Despite a frustrating defeat.
00:46 Yes, well, it was very frustrating.
00:48 Let's start there.
00:50 Cardiff City at the Stadium of Light on Sunday.
00:52 A game in which Sunderland had their fair portion of the ball,
00:57 fair share of the chances.
00:58 Looked to me really to be the better side throughout.
01:02 Credit to Cardiff though, because they turned up and it was a low block.
01:06 And from their point of view, I think a pretty impressive away performance.
01:12 Actually, Phil, how did you see it?
01:14 Generally a bit of a sucker punch really, wasn't it?
01:17 Yeah, I think it was probably a game that happened in sort of two phases really.
01:21 Whereas I felt the first hour, 65 minutes, I thought Sunderland were pretty good.
01:27 Without being maybe their absolute sort of sharpest best.
01:30 But I do think they were comfortably the better side.
01:32 And obviously Cardiff did come with a game plan to frustrate and to contain.
01:37 I did think Sunderland were considerably the better side.
01:41 Without being quite as incisive as we would like them to be.
01:44 I thought the last 20 minutes was probably very different.
01:47 Where I thought although Sunderland were dominating the ball, it was a lot more even.
01:51 I felt Sunderland started to me to look a little bit tired.
01:54 And I think they lost control of midfield a little bit.
01:57 And I think credit to Cardiff though, I thought they were pretty poor for the first 70 minutes.
02:01 While making some really big defensive efforts in their own box.
02:05 I actually thought they looked a threat late on.
02:07 I thought Colwell looked really good when he came off the bench.
02:10 Etetie I thought brought something a bit different to them as well.
02:13 So I thought it was a harsh result.
02:16 I think if you played that game 100 times over, I don't think Cardiff would win from any of them.
02:20 But I think, like I said, I think you give them some credit for the way they defended their own box in the first hour.
02:27 And then I think you have to say as well, they probably sensed
02:30 that there was an opportunity in the last 15-20 minutes maybe to nick something.
02:33 And they did look a threat on the break.
02:36 So I don't think it was a poor Sunderland performance per se.
02:41 I thought they just lacked that little bit of cutting edge.
02:45 And then yeah, I mean, you know, Mowbray didn't really seem to agree after the game.
02:49 But I did feel like it looked like they were a little bit tired.
02:51 I thought, you know, Hulme's pass for the corner which Cardiff scored from.
02:54 You know, he makes that pass 99 times out of 100.
02:59 So yeah, really frustrating in the end.
03:01 I did think it was a big missed opportunity because I think when you look at the fixture
03:06 list next month, it does look to be much tougher on paper.
03:09 And so yeah, I did feel this particularly given that Sunderland were the better side
03:14 for much of the game.
03:14 I felt this was a big chance to really kind of rack up some points and really solidify that
03:18 kind of place in the top six.
03:19 But having said that, I don't think you can overreact either.
03:23 And because large aspects of the performance were, you know, were pretty good.
03:27 Yes, opportunity missed for sure.
03:30 It would have been had Sunderland managed to win the first time that they'd won four
03:35 games on the spin since 2014 in the Premier League under Gus Poyer.
03:39 Obviously, that didn't come to fruition.
03:41 One thing that concerned me, Phil, and I said this on social media after the game, and it
03:47 was an interesting discussion, that I was worried by Sunderland's attack and how sort
03:52 of toothless it seemed and how Cardiff employed that sort of very defensive mindset with the
03:58 low block.
03:59 Sunderland struggled to get the ball to Mason Birstow and they struggled to blurt Cardiff
04:03 down.
04:03 They did have a few chances, but in terms of chances falling to the striker, there were
04:07 few and far between.
04:08 I do acknowledge that Sunderland have scored five against Southampton, recently three against
04:14 Blackburn, but they play very differently to Cardiff.
04:17 They tend to come out, you know, Southampton came out of the stadium and wanted to take
04:21 the game, but Sunderland got picked off.
04:22 Blackburn, Rovers, Sunderland did well to weather the storm, but ultimately they got
04:27 picked off as well.
04:27 For me, I'm just a little worried about where the goals come from when a team comes and
04:36 sits in.
04:37 The caveat to that is that Birstow is getting up to speed.
04:40 We saw Roosan come off the bench.
04:42 Hopefully, he can hit the ground running.
04:44 Sunderland do have variety in attack with him here as well, but that was just a little
04:49 concern and facet for me.
04:50 How did you see it?
04:51 Yeah, I think it's a fair point and it's something that more be raised as well.
04:55 There's probably a reason why over the last year or 18 months, Sunderland have often been
05:00 better away from home than they have been at home.
05:02 And that's the reason you mentioned the Southampton game in a way was almost like an away game
05:07 in the fact that they deployed quite a counter-attacking strategy against Southampton, because
05:10 Southampton wanted to come and try and dominate the ball.
05:12 I think it is a totally different challenge when you are putting a side out that has eight
05:18 or nine players behind the ball, as Cardiff did for much of the first hour and 65 minutes.
05:23 I think the point you raise about the Strikers is a really good one, because I think that's
05:28 definitely a process, not just in terms of players like Birstow getting championship
05:33 experience, but also the team, bizarrely, because we talk so much about Strikers, the
05:39 team has developed kind of without one.
05:41 And sometimes, to me, it's not a huge coincidence that actually at the moment, Sunderland look
05:47 a bit more fluid and a little bit more dangerous when they don't play with a Striker.
05:50 I think their rotations and their style and their movement is sort of organically developed
05:56 over the last year.
05:57 And I think if you look back to the end of the QPR game, when I don't think they really
06:03 had a Striker on the pitch, I know Jemma came on, but there was a period where you had
06:07 Pritchard, Aouchiche, Clark, and they looked so dangerous.
06:12 So I think that that is going to be something that develops over time, because I think at
06:17 the moment, it's not just Birstow acclimatising or Hemi acclimatising.
06:21 I actually think it's the players behind him acclimatising, having that sort of number
06:24 nine, if you like, which they haven't had for so long.
06:26 So I definitely think that's something that will improve over time.
06:30 I think Mulberry's comments after the game, like I say, made it very clear that he definitely
06:35 sees this as something, not as a major issue, but as something that the team has to continue
06:39 to work towards, because I think it's pretty obvious that they are more comfortable at
06:42 the moment playing against a side who wants to attack them and leave space.
06:46 And that's when you see players like Clark be so destructive as he was in Blackburn.
06:49 So I think it's definitely fair to raise that.
06:52 I think that's definitely a process that the team is still going through.
06:55 I thought, Phil, that Dan Neal had a really excellent game for large parts, but some of
07:02 them missing Pierre-Équilin in beside him, I think, at the moment, would you say?
07:05 I think that, yeah, I thought Neal was one of a lot of players who tied a little bit
07:12 late on to me.
07:13 Not really a criticism.
07:14 I think just, you know, I thought Pritchard as well was nowhere near as sharp in the sort
07:17 of the final stages as we used to.
07:19 I think that ultimately the substitutions didn't work in terms of...
07:25 Joe, Joe was the eyebrow razor, wasn't he?
07:27 Yeah, I actually thought Joe had a pretty good game in a sort of, not quite the equa
07:32 role, but doing some of that work.
07:34 And I think ultimately Mulberry took the really positive decision to bring Joe up and bring
07:40 Al-Shish on, and I'm reluctant to criticise that because we've seen Mulberry make
07:45 substitutions all the time, which are always the aggressive attacking option, and it's
07:49 won something with a lot more points than it's lost.
07:51 But I do actually think that it looked to me like some of them were missing a little
07:55 bit of something in the centre midfield during that latter period.
07:57 And I think that might be one of the reasons why Cardiff start to get a lot more space
08:02 and a lot more threat on the counter.
08:04 And that's just one of those gambles that a head coach has to make, isn't it?
08:09 You know, do you stick or do you twist?
08:11 And I think, you know, I certainly think, and I think a lot of fans agree, that I'd
08:15 much rather have a manager who twists rather than sticks, especially at home when you're
08:18 in control of the game.
08:20 For whatever reason, on Sunday I'm just not quite sure it works.
08:23 I agree with you that Eqouis a big miss, but I would also, like I say, I would caveat
08:29 that by saying that I think despite a very ropy start at Blackburn, I think Job's adapted
08:34 pretty well, actually.
08:37 Well, hopefully, you know, there's an outside chance Eqouis will be back on Friday night.
08:40 If not, he should certainly be back for the Middlesbrough, which games he'd be really
08:45 important for because they're both sides that we know have a lot of attacking threats.
08:48 So, yeah, I think Eqouis definitely is a miss, but I think you've got to praise Job.
08:52 I think it was one of those where just, you know, like I say, someone rolled the dice
08:55 a little bit and on this occasion it didn't quite work out.
08:58 Yes, indeed.
09:00 You mentioned earlier, Phil, but there are positives to take from this performance.
09:04 You've just mentioned Job there, Dan Neal.
09:07 I mean, Mark McGuinness, the lad who scored the goal for Cardiff, he blocked two Dan Neal
09:12 shots from pretty good areas.
09:14 The first one looked like, to me, that it might fly in.
09:17 Jack Anick has had a good game in goal for Cardiff, saved a couple of Jack Clarke shots.
09:22 It wasn't as if Sunderland offered nothing during this game, despite there being a little
09:26 bit of an issue getting the ball to Berthoud and perhaps missing Eqouis a little bit.
09:31 It wasn't a bad performance.
09:34 That's the most frustrating thing, isn't it?
09:35 It really wasn't a performance in which you come away thinking, you know, bloody hell,
09:40 we're in trouble.
09:41 Actually, from the discourse I've seen on social media, while being frustrated, people
09:45 were actually saying that if we continue down this path and make a few tweaks, then we should
09:51 hopefully be OK.
09:52 Yes, I think so.
09:53 I think what you can see is that the team is now exceptionally comfortable at this level,
09:58 is exceptionally comfortable retaining the ball, controlling games.
10:04 And I think that's why it's difficult to be, like you say, you're immensely frustrated
10:08 with how the game ended.
10:12 But I don't think you could be too downbeat about the team because it's come a long way
10:17 in a very short space of time to be able to have that level of control, that dominance,
10:21 that comfort in possession, all these things that were suggested over the course of the
10:26 season.
10:26 I think that you've got to have a very good one.
10:28 So, like I say, I definitely think the frustration comes from the fact that I think it was a
10:33 missed opportunity.
10:34 And I think maybe at the end of October, you'll be looking at the table thinking, "Oh, man,
10:38 what if you just had that win against Cardiff, which you probably should have got, then things
10:44 would be looking pretty bright."
10:45 But I think that is the Championship as well.
10:47 There's a reason why very, very, very few teams run away with the Championship unless
10:52 they've got a huge budget or parachute payments or both.
10:55 You have to play all of the time.
10:59 Teams play radically different styles within a few days, not much preparation time.
11:04 Every now and then you come unstuck.
11:06 You know, some of them are far from the only team who experiences that as well.
11:10 So, yeah, I would say that at this stage, not a great concern to me.
11:15 Hopefully, we'll see normal service resumed in the next few games.
11:21 The schedule, as you mentioned, Phil, is a bit mad, isn't it?
11:25 Really, obviously, Sheffield Wednesday, this Friday, then it's Watford at home on the Wednesday,
11:31 and then it's Middlesbrough at home on the following Saturday, half 12 kick-off.
11:37 So just in terms of that schedule, it's tough, and especially on a team with the average
11:43 age of, I think, about 22.8 or something like that, they're going to have to get used to
11:47 that pretty quickly.
11:48 Birstow has been playing a lot of football with Chelsea's youth teams.
11:53 Pierre Équart was with West Ham's youth team a couple of seasons ago.
11:56 You know, Trey Hulme was playing in the League of Ireland.
12:00 There's all of these sorts of caveats that you hope, with a bit of experience, that Sunderland
12:05 can manage these sorts of weeks a bit better.
12:07 Yeah, I think so.
12:09 I think that ultimately, you know, I think Sunderland's youthfulness and its energy will
12:13 probably, over the course of the season, be a benefit with that kind of schedule.
12:16 I think it's actually something that I see as a positive for the most part.
12:19 I think at the moment, you know, you mentioned the Équart injury there.
12:22 There's probably a few positions where Sunderland are a little bit stretched at the moment,
12:27 and I think in a heavy schedule, you're going to see the effects of that.
12:30 Obviously, you mentioned Équart, you know, at left-back.
12:33 I mean, Huggins, I thought, was probably man of the match, or at least maybe Dan Neal,
12:38 but certainly Huggins was up there, I thought, against Cardiff.
12:40 I thought he was really, really good, which is hugely encouraging.
12:43 But again, with Serpent and Alissa injured, you haven't got a lot of depth there.
12:46 You know, it's a lot to ask for Huggins to play five, six games in two weeks,
12:50 given the last two years he's had.
12:53 So, yeah, I think the squad's still coming together a little bit, isn't it?
12:56 You go to see Roosan, I actually thought he looked pretty sharp when he came on.
13:00 You know, Aoushish is sort of getting there.
13:03 I don't have a huge concern about the schedule generally with the squad.
13:08 I think it's now a pretty big squad, and I think the energy is going to be something
13:13 that's actually really valuable to Sunderland over the course of the season.
13:16 But I think there's probably a couple of areas at the moment where they just look a little bit like
13:21 one of those centre midfielders, one where we debated a lot whether they should sign
13:25 another player. We felt they should, they didn't.
13:27 Job's general performance, I think we'd probably say that they were right to trust him.
13:32 But yeah, I think it's going to be a tricky week, I think, for those reasons.
13:37 I think there's a few positions where that depth isn't quite there.
13:40 But I think, yeah, I certainly expect a pretty quick response.
13:46 Just on Niall Huggins there, as you mentioned, starting at left-back,
13:49 seems to have a really good partnership with Jack Clark.
13:52 I don't know if they know each other from the time at Leeds.
13:53 I know they were both born in York, so there's that connection.
13:56 Deputising for Dennis Serkin at the moment.
13:59 You spoke to him during pre-season.
14:00 I know Joe spoke to him after the Cardiff game.
14:02 A player who's been through a lot but has a lot of talent and a lot of quality.
14:09 It's nice on a personal level to see players come through those injury issues and injury
14:15 problems because it comes across as a really grounded individual who's had to go through
14:20 a lot really since joining Sunderland.
14:22 Yeah, I think that's the best thing probably about Sunday's game was that he looked the
14:27 closest we've seen to the Huggins who first broke through before his injury problems started.
14:32 I think in previous games, when he's been put in, since he sort of came back from all
14:36 those injuries, I'm thinking obviously back to the Birmingham game last year as the best
14:39 example, he did an incredible job given how little football he played.
14:44 But you could tell he was sort of playing within himself, if you like, because he hadn't
14:47 had that much exposure and that much match sharpness.
14:50 And it was really about sort of getting through the game, I guess, to a large extent, something
14:54 he did really well.
14:55 Sunday, it actually looked like the real sort of Nile was returning, if you like.
15:00 You know, we're used to him really driving forward in possession.
15:02 We're used to him sort of underlapping the winger, getting into really good areas.
15:06 So it's massive for him, really, because the competition for places is going to be
15:10 pretty severe.
15:11 It's going to be really hard for him to get in the team if Sturgeon and Atleti get fit
15:14 again, if Pembele gets fit.
15:15 But he's given himself a real chance.
15:18 And I think the positive for him is, you know, this is obviously a big year in his career,
15:22 whereby he'll want to put himself in the best position, whether it's to say at Sunderland
15:27 or whether to move on elsewhere and really compete.
15:29 And I think the signs on Sunday was that not just has he got himself fit again, which is
15:35 obviously the first and the biggest hurdle, he's actually starting to find that sort of
15:39 X factor in his game again.
15:41 And but yeah, this week's going to be a huge challenge for him because we're not expecting
15:45 Surkna to release it back.
15:46 So theoretically, we're looking at him starting three games in eight days, which is another
15:51 level of challenge entirely.
15:54 So it's going to be really interesting to see whether Mugbere thinks he's capable of
15:58 that or whether he feels he has to rotate a little bit because there aren't any real
16:01 obvious options.
16:02 So that's going to be interesting.
16:05 But definitely, I think, you know, his most accomplished performance since he returned
16:09 and I'm really excited to see that dynamic side of his game sort of starting to come
16:14 back.
16:14 We'll come on to the injury situation at Sunderland in a second, but just in terms of
16:20 the league table, Phil, eight games played, 13 points won for Sunderland, sitting in fifth
16:25 position at the moment.
16:27 And again, I think the pleasing thing I've seen from people on social media is that a
16:35 recognition that it's just too early to tell at the moment how things are going to go.
16:39 Signs have been promising early doors.
16:41 But the one thing that a lot of people keep going back to is that Sunderland didn't really
16:45 look like making the playoffs last season until they did.
16:48 Championships a long old season, playing Saturday midweek and, you know, it's a tough old
16:55 slog.
16:55 And generally, I think it's always difficult to sort of to gauge where a team's going to
17:02 finish exactly until you've played about 25, sometimes 30 games.
17:06 And in that regard, Sunderland don't need to panic at all.
17:09 No, I think I'd be very sort of strong in saying for me, there is absolutely no doubt
17:16 that this team is miles ahead of the team from the first six or seven games at this
17:21 stage last year.
17:22 And that team did have some big things in its favour.
17:24 It had momentum from winning promotion from League One.
17:27 When Stuart and Sims were fit together, of course, they offered a real threat.
17:32 But it was the team was nowhere near as accomplished as this one is, in my opinion.
17:36 And I would point to the sort of underlying data, if you like.
17:38 Teams were creating a lot of chances against Sunderland.
17:41 And yes, Sunderland were creating chances their own through Stuart and Sims.
17:45 But the general control that this team is able to exert on a championship game is absolutely
17:54 streets ahead of where it was this time last year, in my opinion.
17:57 Now, obviously, that doesn't necessarily mean that they will replicate or better what they
18:02 did last year, because what did that team have last year?
18:05 Well, for periods of the season, it had Ross Stewart scoring every single game he played
18:08 in.
18:09 And it had Ahmad, who was just a genius who should never have been playing at championship
18:13 level.
18:14 So you can't guarantee that just because the team's probably evolved for the better that
18:18 they'll actually be able to do what it did last year, because the league's probably stronger
18:22 as well.
18:23 You know, we see teams from the start of the season, you know, league's had a bit of a
18:26 sticky start, but they're now really beginning to pair a little bit.
18:28 So while you're absolutely right in what you say, you can't make it impossible to say at
18:34 this stage that Sunderland will be able to replicate last year.
18:37 But I do feel like they're already a better team.
18:39 And that's, I guess, is a tick to what they're doing.
18:43 Because, yeah, I don't think the team this time last year was capable of controlling
18:48 championships games the way they've shown they can at the moment.
18:51 Sometimes they're not getting the results they deserve from that.
18:55 But I think we should all take a fair level of encouragement from that.
18:58 Indeed.
19:00 What's the latest with injuries, Phil?
19:02 Obviously, you're due to speak to Tony Mowbray later this week.
19:04 But as it stands, there's Bradley Dagdett at Circ and Ekwaj as well.
19:08 What's the latest?
19:09 Yeah, I don't envisage there being a huge amount of difference on Friday, to be honest.
19:14 Circ and we definitely won't see back, I don't think.
19:16 And I think it's unlikely you'll see Burnett, just because, obviously, you know, a lot of
19:21 the quite few sort of fringe at the moment players played in the under-21s last night.
19:27 Burnett didn't.
19:28 We know he's been struggling with illness and he wasn't training as of the end of last week.
19:31 That would suggest that he's still not quite right yet.
19:34 The two that were a bit more hopeful, and I think Dag and Ekwaj, you know, Mowbray sort of said
19:40 that Dag probably could have played at the weekend.
19:44 But obviously, given his injury record in the last year or two, they've just been ultra-cautious
19:48 with him.
19:49 But if he could have played at the weekend, you'd think there's half a chance he'll be
19:52 on the bench on Friday.
19:53 Similarly, I'm not sure if Ekwaj will be back on Friday.
19:58 Mowbray said seven to ten days.
20:00 It's sort of towards the end of last week.
20:01 So that would suggest it's going to be a bit tight for Friday.
20:04 But I definitely think we'll see him back in the side next week.
20:06 So, yeah, I think it's going to be a similar-ish squad for the next week or so, hopefully,
20:14 with Dag and Ekwaj back.
20:15 And then I think after the international break, we should start to see the picture change
20:18 a little bit.
20:19 Serkin should be back.
20:20 Alisie should be getting there.
20:22 Mienda shouldn't be far off being ready to make his debut either.
20:25 So, yeah, I think hopefully Dag and Ekwaj are back in the squad on Friday, but possibly
20:32 Watford is more realistic.
20:34 And Sheffield Wednesday on Friday, away from home, is on paper a really good opportunity
20:41 to get back to winning ways, simply because that club is a bit of a shambles at the moment
20:47 at boardroom level, the team struggling on the pitch, haven't got promoted from League
20:52 One last season and did magnificently so to get promoted.
20:55 Obviously, Darren Muir has since gone and they've got a new manager in there.
20:59 But this is Sunderland and Sunderland sometimes don't do things that are expected of them.
21:04 So you've always got a guard against that and a guard against complacency.
21:07 It's the Championship.
21:09 We know Sheffield Wednesday have had a dreadful start of the season, but one of the two points
21:13 they got was by pulling Leeds to a draw, which is a good performance.
21:17 So I think this is definitely an opportunity for Sunderland.
21:22 I don't think there's any doubt about that.
21:23 I don't think that's disrespectful to Sheffield Wednesday.
21:25 I think what we've probably also seen, the Darren Muir factor was huge and destabilised
21:32 and I think the feel-good factor that they've managed to build over the last eight or nine
21:35 months.
21:36 I think what we've probably also seen, and I think this is a fair comment, Sheffield
21:39 Wednesday probably did it very differently to Sunderland and also Ipswich, whereby I
21:44 think they probably focused their recruitment on battle-hardened, experienced League One
21:49 players.
21:49 The Wigan model.
21:50 Yeah, and I think as we saw with Wigan, it can be a little bit harder to then adjust
21:54 when you actually get promoted to the Championship.
21:57 And I think there's a reason why Ipswich this year and Sunderland last year found it a bit
22:01 easier, because I think the players were probably better equipped for the speed and the leap
22:06 in technical ability at this level.
22:08 So I think I did expect Sheffield Wednesday to have some teething problems, albeit I don't
22:14 think there's any doubt whatsoever that they'd be far better if Mo was in charge because
22:17 of that ability he's got and the unity, I think, and the spirit would have been a lot
22:24 better around the club.
22:25 So I think it's one of those where you've got to be really careful because you can't
22:29 assume you're ever going to do anything in the way of getting in the Championship.
22:33 It's going to be difficult.
22:35 But having said that, it would be insulting to people's intelligence listening as well
22:41 to say that it's not an opportunity because it very clearly is.
22:44 It's probably the game you want really after a loss, isn't it?
22:47 Bottom of the table, bit of a shambles, boardroom disruption.
22:51 The mood around the club on social media that I observe is pretty poor at the moment.
22:55 So yeah, definitely a good opportunity.
22:58 There was some news, Phil, about a backroom departure.
23:03 Is it the head analyst at Sunderland has now gone?
23:06 James Young, is it?
23:08 Yeah, head of data and analysis.
23:10 Yeah, an interesting one, I guess, in the sense that probably one of those roles that
23:13 you don't hear much about, but actually when you know how Sunderland operate as well, it's
23:20 really important.
23:21 I suppose it's interesting coming off the back of the news about Adam Askar, who left
23:25 for Southampton as well, in terms of always a negative when you lose staff, obviously.
23:31 But I suppose a little bit like what we've talked about with the players, it's also kind
23:35 of encouraging that backroom staff are being recognised as hugely talented in what they
23:40 do and having big futures and being made good offers to take opportunities elsewhere.
23:45 So yeah, a really important role, though.
23:47 I mean, it's a sort of a very overarching role and obviously Sunderland's end goal is
23:54 to have an alignment in terms of playing philosophy right throughout the club or through the
23:58 different teams.
23:59 And sort of the head of data analysis has a big role in terms of using and being part
24:04 of that process.
24:05 So yeah, it's definitely a blow for Sunderland, but I think probably a little bit like what
24:09 we've talked about with some of the players' speculation.
24:11 It is definitely a sign that the club is very different to where it was six, seven years
24:17 ago.
24:17 And I think that's evidenced in the fact that other clubs and other organisations within
24:22 sport are now seeing it as somewhere where they want to look and see if there's talent
24:26 there that they can recruit.
24:29 Indeed, well, that probably brings an end to this pretty short broadcast.
24:34 We will keep you up to date over on the Sunderland Echo website with all of the latest ahead
24:40 of the Sheffield Wednesday game on Friday.
24:42 I imagine there'll be some sort of preview podcast as well.
24:45 So keep your eyes and ears out for that.
24:48 You can find us over on Twitter, Facebook, all social media and of course over on the
24:53 Sunderland Echo website.
24:55 Thank you once again for listening.
24:56 - Thank you.
24:57 [BLANK_AUDIO]
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