Sean Penn on How He Filmed Zelensky the Day After the First Bombs Dropped on Ukraine

Variety

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00:00 We went back to the hotel to prepare for the next day,

00:03 our first day of shooting with President Zelensky.

00:06 I must have been asleep about 10 minutes

00:08 by the time the first rocket hit the city.

00:10 And so everything changed.

00:12 And then he kept the meeting with us the next day

00:14 and we started shooting this film.

00:17 The film we'd set out to make was not meant

00:19 to encounter an existential threat to democracy,

00:22 just a spirited story of a comedy superstar

00:25 turned president.

00:26 Be careful.

00:28 The average amount of people traveling,

00:31 part of our crew were between three and five.

00:36 A total of seven trips, gosh,

00:41 typically about a week at a time.

00:42 We're currently in this situation

00:44 where there's a major Russian buildup.

00:46 The situation was changing and feeling more urgent.

00:50 Go, go, go.

00:51 They had two impacts in town.

00:54 Billy Smith and I had, we met, I think it was at the CGI,

00:59 the Clinton Global Initiative meeting

01:02 in New York one year.

01:04 We started talking about documentaries.

01:06 We had a couple of different ones that we had pursued

01:09 and for various reasons decided not to do.

01:12 He had made contact with a good friend

01:14 of President Zelensky's.

01:16 And this is at a time where the United States,

01:18 whereby most of us were being introduced to Zelensky

01:22 through a bad phone call with the then President Trump.

01:25 The way that he was handling

01:28 what must have been an incredibly difficult period

01:32 with the relationship between the United States and Ukraine

01:35 seemed awfully mature for somebody

01:38 who had not been in politics for long.

01:40 You hear the stories of the history he had as an actor.

01:44 Start watching some of the shows of "Servant of the People."

01:47 He was a talented actor, very charismatic, very charming.

01:50 And we had the opportunity through this friend of Billy's

01:53 to perhaps be in touch with President Zelensky

01:56 and get his participation.

01:58 And so we decided we'd make this whimsical tale

02:01 of this comedic actor who played a president in a comedy,

02:04 then becoming the president of Ukraine.

02:06 And then COVID got in our way

02:09 and it was difficult to travel.

02:11 In some cases it was forbidden.

02:13 He said, "Let's wait and do this after."

02:16 'Cause we met him on Zoom during the COVID lockdowns.

02:20 What I said to him was that I didn't want him to say yes,

02:23 he'd participate until he met me face to face.

02:26 Then he'd have a chance to,

02:28 because I really wanted his trust.

02:31 I was gonna ask everything.

02:33 At that time, one thought they were gonna ask

02:35 the big question, what happened on that phone call?

02:38 Well, of course he did an incredible Axios interview

02:41 where he addressed it head on.

02:42 And so what had been important

02:44 or wherever we thought we would start

02:45 in the pursuit of the story of Ukraine

02:47 and this president changed.

02:50 And now we were hearing the drums of Russia.

02:54 By the time we were able to visit with him the first time,

02:58 it just ended up being visit face to face, but no cameras.

03:03 It would be on the 23rd of February, 2022,

03:07 the day before the invasion.

03:09 And he agreed that he'd go on camera the following day.

03:12 And it was a good meeting.

03:15 And I knew I liked him, whip smart, warm,

03:20 and didn't have the contrivances or the guards

03:25 that I'd seen in political leaders all over the world.

03:28 We went back to the hotel to prepare for the next day,

03:31 our first day of shooting with President Zelensky.

03:35 And we ultimately decided to get some rest

03:39 and we laid down in our rooms.

03:42 And I don't know, I must've been asleep

03:45 about 10 minutes by the time the first rocket hit the city.

03:48 And so everything changed.

03:50 And then he kept the meeting with us the next day

03:52 and we started shooting this film.

03:54 - This is about vengeance.

03:56 Putin's angry that this country wants to divorce itself

03:59 from Russia forever and he wants it back.

04:01 - What I felt was a profound heartbreak.

04:05 It was really clear that day that something evil

04:08 and beyond stupid, a complete collapse of imagination

04:13 had happened in the Kremlin, in Putin,

04:17 and to a large degree in Russian culture,

04:21 creating a kind of sepsis on humanity.

04:24 All of the ways in which this is going to continue

04:29 to impact all of our lives.

04:31 As long as there's a war being fought,

04:33 in part leveraging fossil fuels,

04:36 we're not moving forward on climate change issues, right?

04:40 So this is a thing that, all of the,

04:44 of course the deaths and the destruction,

04:47 meaningless, meaningless stuff.

04:50 But it was also heartbreaking because one knew,

04:55 you sensed it from our first trip in November

04:58 and the attention we had paid that country

05:01 since we started this.

05:03 It was so clear that something magic was going on

05:05 in terms of the unity of that country.

05:07 So there was no version of this

05:09 where Russia could win and it would be one more war

05:13 somebody else won over somebody else and off we go home.

05:17 There was no such thing as a win for the Russians here.

05:20 So I think the kindest thing one could say about Putin

05:23 is he has absolutely no imagination and he's an utter bore.

05:27 - We need Americans to understand the price

05:30 we have to pay to be free.

05:32 - Because of our proximity to active combat,

05:37 that's the priority.

05:38 - Guys, no grass, these fields are mine.

05:41 - There's a lot of ways you could end the sentence.

05:44 None of us thought that Ukraine could this.

05:48 None of us would ever have imagined

05:53 that this comedian turned president would become this.

05:58 This is not the old story.

06:02 In the old story, when the world media reports

06:06 a total encirclement of Kiev, that regime has collapsed

06:09 and a puppet regime is put in.

06:14 That's the story, always the story everywhere in the world.

06:18 What's different about this story is that

06:20 and where Ukraine, and I believe it will,

06:25 and it's moving to me to think about this,

06:29 that it's gonna rewrite the rhythm of history this way.

06:33 I think Ukraine can be the story of sustained unity

06:38 when in peacetime.

06:40 That doesn't mean lack of diversity of political thought,

06:43 but that they are going to remember that they are one.

06:47 I sense that's going to happen.

06:49 I sense it's gonna happen in part

06:51 because of Zelensky's leadership,

06:54 but I sense it from kind of the all walks of life people

06:57 that we've spent time with,

06:58 that there's something new in world history happening

07:01 and it's starting with Ukraine

07:03 and that it'll be a great teacher for the world.

07:08 (dramatic music)

07:10 - If Ukraine fails, it's not just a failure for democracy.

07:13 - Everything that happens here is gonna affect

07:15 every other place in the world today.

07:16 That's the reason that we're all so invested in this.

07:19 - I don't think that our country should underestimate

07:24 the insobriety of privilege.

07:28 And we are privileged that our children

07:31 are not being hit by rockets right now.

07:33 We are privileged that we are not in some kind

07:37 of a civil war right now.

07:40 With this film, as much as it's about Ukraine,

07:43 as much as it's about Zelensky,

07:45 that turns out to be only the most potent vehicle

07:50 to create the discussion about building community

07:55 'cause we're social creatures

07:56 and if we can't wake up in the morning

07:59 to a world that assumes it's in partnership with each other,

08:03 whether it's our neighborhood, our house,

08:06 then I do, as they say in the film,

08:08 it doesn't take rocket science to know

08:13 that what we're doing is designing for mental unhealth.

08:18 Unless we're humble enough to realize

08:22 we're social animals and what does that mean?

08:25 I don't have to wake up in the morning

08:27 and assume my neighbor hates me.

08:29 (gentle music)

08:32 (gentle music)

08:35 (gentle music)

08:37 (gentle music)

08:40 (gentle music)

08:42 (gentle music)

08:45 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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