00:00 So I am a master in social policy here at Sciences Po.
00:05 While I might not quite look it,
00:06 I'm actually also part Indian.
00:08 And over this past few years,
00:10 it's been particularly scary to see many of my friends
00:13 and family members back in India become radicalized
00:16 by Hindu nationalist rhetoric.
00:18 My question to you is, you know,
00:20 if your coalition gets elected,
00:22 where exactly do you see yourself placing the role
00:24 of Hinduism in a post-BJP India?
00:27 And how concretely do you propose dismantling
00:30 or perhaps even transforming the legacy
00:32 of a religious zeitgeist,
00:34 which has captured the hearts and minds
00:35 of so many Indians today?
00:38 Look, I've read, I've read the Gita.
00:43 I've read number of the Upanishads.
00:46 I've read many Hindu books.
00:50 There's nothing Hindu about what the BJP does.
00:53 There's absolutely nothing,
00:56 nothing Hindu about what they do.
00:57 (audience applauding)
00:58 Right?
00:59 I have not read anywhere in no Hindu book
01:04 from no Hindu learned Hindu person,
01:10 have I ever heard that you should terrorize,
01:14 harm people who are weaker than you.
01:17 I've never read this.
01:18 So this idea, this word Hindu nationalists,
01:21 this is a wrong word.
01:22 They're not Hindu nationalists.
01:24 They are nothing to do with Hinduism.
01:27 They are out to get power at any cost
01:31 and they will do anything to get power
01:35 and they will do anything to ensure
01:38 that the Indian caste structure,
01:41 the social structure of my country is not threatened.
01:45 They want dominance of a few people
01:49 and that is what they're about.
01:51 There is nothing Hindu about them.
01:55 - Thank you.
01:56 Very clear.
01:57 Gentleman.
01:58 - Hi, thank you for being here.
01:59 My name is Zaid Wahidi.
02:01 I'm a lawyer based in Paris.
02:03 My question is about the opposition's narrative
02:06 for the next election
02:08 and I saw that Ms. Sonia Gandhi wrote a letter
02:10 identifying nine points to the Prime Minister.
02:13 Is that the opposition's pitch?
02:14 Because as a minority, of course,
02:15 it's important for me to have the
02:18 (speaking in foreign language)
02:22 Is there another issue
02:23 or are there certain issues that you have identified
02:26 that will perhaps build more consensus
02:27 with even the majority community
02:29 and get you where you want to be in 2024?
02:33 - You know,
02:34 when you see the people
02:39 on the stage
02:41 in the India coalition,
02:45 you must realize
02:49 that more people
02:51 from the majority community
02:54 vote for us than vote for the BJP.
02:56 60% of India
02:59 votes for us.
03:01 40% of India votes for them.
03:02 So this idea
03:06 that the majority community is not,
03:08 is voting for the BJP,
03:09 this is a wrong idea.
03:11 The majority community actually votes more for us
03:13 than they vote for them.
03:14 They do polarize society.
03:19 They divide society.
03:21 They spread hatred in society.
03:23 And that is their mechanism.
03:25 They also happen to have
03:28 very good relationships
03:31 with the
03:32 most powerful, richest crony capitalists in the land
03:36 who finance them, support them,
03:38 help them do what they do.
03:42 And so this is the architecture
03:44 that stands behind the BJP.
03:47 The idea that Mr. Narendra Modi is orchestrating this thing
03:51 is a gross simplification.
03:53 Mr. Narendra Modi is
03:55 an instrument of the architecture.
03:59 And I'm pretty confident that the RSS
04:01 can get rid of Narendra Modi in five minutes
04:03 if they want to.
04:04 It is a structure
04:08 that is doing this.
04:10 And that structure is now a threat to Indian democracy.
04:15 So we are committed to fighting that structure.
04:18 What are the broader elements?
04:20 The first thing is the gross inequality
04:23 that is taking place in India.
04:25 Few business people who are billionaires,
04:30 the third richest person on the planet was Indian,
04:33 and 90% of India
04:37 going back into poverty.
04:41 So that's the first thing.
04:43 The second thing is we have to solve
04:45 what I was talking about earlier.
04:47 We keep talking about economic growth.
04:52 You read the newspapers about economic growth, right?
04:55 Have you ever read in the newspaper
04:58 next to the economic growth question,
05:00 the employment question?
05:03 Has anybody in the newspapers said, "Wait a minute,
05:07 we are growing at 7%, 8%,
05:09 but we have the highest unemployment rate in 40 years?"
05:13 That's a much more interesting question to me
05:15 because we can grow at 9% and give none of you jobs.
05:20 Right?
05:22 That's what's happening.
05:26 So that's the second big question.
05:28 And the third question that is very close to my heart
05:31 is the large mass, the real power of India
05:36 is in the lower castes,
05:41 the other backward castes,
05:42 these communities,
05:43 and they are not given any space in the governance of India.
05:48 They're not given any space in corporate India.
05:52 They're not given any space anywhere.
05:54 And that to me is a crime.
05:55 So those would be the central thrusts
05:59 of how we would think about it.
06:01 The final thing I would say is that
06:04 one way to look at India
06:07 is that it is making a transition from rural to urban,
06:12 and the largest migration of people
06:17 from rural to urban in human history ever
06:23 is taking place in India and China.
06:26 And if we're gonna be making this transition,
06:30 this is a frightening transition for a lot of people,
06:32 so we need to give them the basic minimum architecture
06:36 to make this transition safely.
06:39 What does that mean?
06:41 That we spend a serious amount of money on education.
06:43 We spend a serious amount of money on healthcare.
06:47 That government does not abrogate responsibility
06:50 for healthcare and education.
06:51 And that we provide a minimum floor
06:54 where India commits to all its people
06:59 that no matter what happens,
07:01 you can simply not go below that floor.
07:03 We will give you a minimum income below which
07:06 no matter what happens, you're not gonna go.
07:09 But when I talk to students,
07:11 especially the Indian students here,
07:13 and the students who are not from India,
07:19 the injustice that the caste system in India does,
07:25 the pain and trauma that the caste system in India causes
07:31 is beyond anything I know anywhere else in the world.
07:36 And so I see my politics as
07:40 challenging the idea
07:44 that there should be this caste order in India,
07:51 that there should be this permanent hierarchy in India,
07:53 and that some people should have access
07:57 to all the institutions, all the structures,
08:01 and other people should just live a life
08:05 of poverty and misery.
08:06 So this would be the framework
08:08 that the Indian coalition would be talking about
08:11 and thinking about.
08:13 - Thank you.
08:14 Gentleman over there.
08:15 - Thank you, ma'am.
08:15 - And by the way, when I said minimum floor,
08:19 I didn't only mean financial floor.
08:22 So I think the idea that 200 million people
08:26 can feel uncomfortable in India today,
08:29 or Sikhs can feel uncomfortable in India today,
08:33 I think that is a matter of shame for us.
08:35 And I think that needs to be corrected.
08:37 And there are minorities who feel that way.
08:40 There are lower caste people who feel that way.
08:42 There are women who feel that way.
08:44 And so we are very strongly committed to this.
08:46 (upbeat music)
08:51 (upbeat music)
08:54 (upbeat music)
08:56 (upbeat music)
08:59 (upbeat music)
09:01 (dramatic music)
Comments