2020 Interviews by Elements of Madness - Dailymotion

Elements of Madness

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00:00this is lindsey dunn talking to tyler smith tyler thank you so much for agreeing to talk to me

00:08today oh thank you for having me yeah so i just watched your movie um called real with it real

00:15redemption the rise of christian cinema it's a documentary or some are calling it a video essay

00:23the sometimes contentious relationship between the church and cinema focusing on times and

00:29films that christians heralded and sometimes rallied against since the miracle of movie started

00:35so how did your love of cinema start oh my uh i mean i've always when i was a kid i always liked

00:44movies like my favorite thing to go and do is my favorite you know is back in the days of video

00:49stores so one of my favorite things to do would like go to a video store with my family and

00:54thankfully i had uh parents that were very um what i call movie positive uh in christian circles

01:02it's not a given that parents will be super into movies and and into their kids seeing movies but

01:09i was pretty fortunate in that regard because both my parents really adored movies and and i and then i

01:16also had an older brother which came in handy for whenever there is a movie that my parents didn't

01:22want me to see thankfully i had a rebellious older brother who would uh rent it and then we'd watch

01:27it together and so that's how i wound up seeing you know some tarantino movies when i was probably a

01:32little bit too young to watch them um and uh yeah i think it was just i don't know what it was uh

01:40i think it was it was all of these things and i certainly wouldn't have been able would not have

01:44been able to verbalize this at the time but it's just all of these things coming together

01:48you know the music the sound design the the cinematography the editing all of that and and

01:54the story itself like coming together to act on your instinct and your emotion you know and i think

02:01when you're a kid of course everybody's intellectual to the degree that they are able to be and so when

02:06you're a kid your understanding of things is limited but you know but you and you're still developing

02:12emotionally but your emotions are there first and foremost and i think that film is

02:17i'd say primarily an emotional or instinctive medium uh obviously there's plenty of analysis

02:24that can go into it and plenty of intellectualization but um but i think first and foremost it is a an

02:30emotional and instinctive uh art form and so as a kid i just responded to that i was just totally

02:37i i would just get lost in these movies when i would watch them and you know in retrospect when

02:43i go back it's like these some of these movies weren't that great but as a kid i was just so

02:46excited i was just on board with pretty much anything a movie would wanted to do and so i just

02:51i grew up in in a very uh a movie positive uh household and even outside of that i myself just

02:59really responded to them what are some of the first movies that you remember really falling in love with

03:06well like so many other people my age uh certainly boys but it's kind of universal uh i mean star wars

03:14like the star wars the original star wars trilogy you know the the last of those films return of the

03:19jedi came out in 83 which was a year after i was born so by the time i was old enough to be watching

03:24stuff like all of the movies all of those movies were on video i would watch them over and over again

03:30and really just really loved them i watched raiders of the lost ark uh more so than temple of doom and

03:37then i guess uh last crusade wouldn't come out until 89 but uh but yeah the star wars movies and then

03:44the 1984 ghostbusters like those really captured my imagination but then the one that i would come back

03:52to over and over again even though it scared me was jaws um i just really i didn't mind being scared

04:02uh when i saw jaws i certainly you know to this day if i go into the oceans like well obviously i'm going

04:08to die there's no question about that but uh but you know i lived in the middle of a desert community so

04:13i was mostly fine uh as a kid and i just i i do think that uh that steven spielberg as a filmmaker

04:20just his sensibilities now obviously he he makes very adult films as well like saving private ryan

04:26and munich and schindler's list but i think when he when he latches on to like a very mainstream

04:32action or adventure or horror film he makes it in a way that is broad enough and i don't say that in

04:39a negative way it's broad enough to really capture the imagination of even the youngest viewer you know you

04:46go and watch jurassic park or et or you know as i mentioned already jaws uh and yes there are moments

04:52that are extremely intense but there's also this moment these moments of awe and there's a universality

04:59to the way he makes movies that i think really lends itself to audiences of all ages and so a lot of the

05:07films that he had released at that time like et and jaws and that sort of thing uh really really

05:13worked for me and i'm trying to think there are probably some disney movies as well like some

05:17animated films i remember really liking peter pan and um alice in wonderland even though that one kind

05:24of freaked me out a little bit at times and winnie the pooh uh so the cheshire cat like really creeped

05:30me out i love him now he i adore him but the cheshire cat and then you go back and watch man you watch

05:37pinocchio and it's a marvelous film i i adore it but to this day lampwick turning into a donkey is

05:45extremely disturbing uh and certainly as a kid even though i watched pinocchio over and over again

05:51we got to that part and i wouldn't like and i would just watch in in absolute horror but i couldn't

05:58stop watching there's just something so perverse about that it's like what they say you know when you

06:03drive by a car accident you just can't help but look and see what it is even if you don't want to

06:08see something really horrible you just can't help but be enamored of the things that are frightening

06:15to you and that was definitely the case with me as a kid um and to a certain extent uh me now like i

06:21i have a terrible fear of spiders so if there's a spider related horror movie it seems like i wouldn't

06:27want to watch it when in fact it's i'm the first in line like i can't wait to see it even if it keeps

06:34me from sleeping later on that night you've talked a little bit about your love of movies growing up

06:39how did you come to the decision to begin studying film as a career i think so being a when i was a

06:47kid i was very i was creative or at least creatively minded i certainly had no patience for sports

06:52watching them or playing them not to mention i wasn't particularly good at them uh but i enjoyed

06:57drawing i enjoyed writing stories uh and so and and i think there comes a moment where

07:03probably in middle school where the things that inspire you you start they inspire you to do these

07:11other things but then after a while you're like well i like this stuff i like movies i like uh

07:17telling stories in a dramatic way um but i'm not doing that so why don't i just do that

07:24and so i started getting into acting uh in middle school and high school and um i acted on stage

07:31and i really i really enjoyed it and i was i was pretty good at it um and that was itself exciting

07:39because there wasn't much else i was good at um and then comes that moment where you're just like

07:45you know what i i would like to write something that i would then act in and so then you start writing

07:51and then you start making films with your friends you know and i think you get you can get really

07:57addicted to that idea of the contents of my head are now being seen on screen um and and so i think

08:07i really got into that uh in in high school but uh but i also didn't i i had no real into so i i acted

08:15a lot on stage but i didn't really want to stay there um because i was also in high school part of like

08:21the tv video class and i really enjoyed that and i thought like well this is a all i'm really good

08:28at be all i'm really interested in so i guess i'll just pursue this um and i mean it sounds weird

08:36nobody i don't think anybody ever described like pursuing film as a as a pragmatic decision but for

08:42me it very much was because i i wasn't passionate about anything else and i wasn't really good at

08:47anything else so i went to film school in chicago and studied writing directing and critical studies

08:54and i moved out to and then my wife and i moved out to los angeles in 2007

09:00and uh the the goal was to pursue writing but in the meantime i i co-founded a podcast called

09:11battleship pretension in 2007 and and it was just a fun hobby but i enjoyed it so much that i started to

09:22i started to just lean in that direction like lean in the direction of film criticism and so you know

09:28i got into like writing reviews and doing interviews with people and and really loved it uh and then that

09:35actually opened some doors to do some public speaking and uh talk at some colleges which then

09:41made me want to pursue uh teaching and so just like one thing led to another and i keep discovering

09:49something as a function of something else and so now i do the criticism thing but i also uh went back

09:55to school and got my master's and i and i teach uh at the college level now uh but but one thing that

10:03i've always been interested in being raised as a christian and still being a practicing christian

10:08i've always been fascinated at like the intersection of art and faith uh because those tend to be two

10:15communities that look at each other with suspicion and so uh so i've talked at various film festivals and

10:22ultimately wound up making this movie which explores that intersection and and is attempting to

10:31bridge that gap uh i made it i'd say not primarily for a christian audience but that's sort of where i

10:38got the funding so i kind of had that audience in mind but hopefully it's it's it gets christians who

10:44are not super into the idea of movies certainly not hollywood gets them a little bit more open to the

10:51idea of the potential of film and then also gets uh you know non-christian film critics to see the

10:58potential i'd say largely unrealized but the potential of like faith-based films most of them

11:04i think are pretty uh awful um but they don't have to be and when i when i went back to school i went to

11:13uh ucla and i remember the first so like i had been accepted and so you go and you visit and they

11:21essentially pitch the program to you well it's the only school i applied to so i was going to say yes

11:26no matter what um and uh they asked they said does anybody here have any questions and i asked like

11:35is there anything like because my thought was like you know i mean movies have been around for a while

11:40like what what what mark could i possibly make in the world of film academia um and so i asked is there

11:47is there anything that is not being talked about at this point and at the time the person asking the

11:54person that was asking for questions she said that she couldn't think of anything uh but then a

11:59teacher later told me he said nobody is like nobody in the academic world is talking about faith-based

12:05film um and in the critic world they're talking about it if they're not dismissing it outright they're

12:13talking about it derisively again understandably so faith-based film is often unwatchable um but

12:21it's still people that are looking it's it's filmmakers that are looking to express themselves

12:27creatively and that itself warrants another look or at least trying to explore where it could go

12:37you know and so uh so it kind of so the the the decision and i and i wrote an essay in school about

12:45faith-based film as an emerging genre and so i pitched this this idea to uh faith life tv as like

12:53an opportunity since there's so little like academic conversation being had about this like well i i guess

13:00i'll start i can i can contribute what little i can with this film which again hopefully will get

13:07will will pique the curiosity of christian viewers who maybe uh view film as a medium with suspicion but

13:15then also suggest that yes christian film is not very good for the most part but that doesn't mean it

13:20can't be so let's try to rather than just dismiss it out of hand because it may not fit with what we

13:26believe uh maybe let's try to explore what it could be and the effect that it's having on mainstream films

13:33as well and so yeah it's i'm trying to kind of ride that line in between and uh i'm not totally sure

13:41if one group is being affected more than the other or either of them are being affected at all

13:46but that was the goal anyway i've talked with a lot of christian filmmakers albeit uh sort of

13:52independent christian filmmakers um who've had varying levels of success within the industry

13:58and so many of them have said like hey the films that we want to make are ones that actively explore

14:06the the difficulty um with which somebody uh tries to live a a faith-filled life you know whether it

14:17be dealing with temptation dealing with doubt dealing with loss and and exploring the idea that we don't

14:23have all the answers but and then moving forward not necessarily as though we had the answers but

14:30as though there are answers out there and we're going to have to

14:33sort of take a leap of faith to get there so like the filmmakers granted not all of them but like

14:39a lot of the filmmakers are very interested in

14:43in sincerely exploring their faith artistically but then but then any number of them will say

14:52well the money people are not interested in that because because the audience with with exception of

15:01course but the audience is not interested in that they're they they want some they certainly don't

15:06want anything that could be that could offend their sensibilities as far as profanity or or nudity or

15:12even violence uh but also they want something that affirms like that's like literally there's a studio

15:18called affirm films and you know it's not called challenge films it's called affirm like people

15:24people like having their values and i don't just mean christians i think people in general like having

15:29their values uh affirmed and when you're when you're a christian and you feel like hollywood has

15:35been against you for decades and decades then the last thing you want is something that challenges you

15:41because you might view that as oh this film is get is wanting me to reject well it's like no it might

15:48actually just want to deepen your faith but any kind of questioning is viewed as negative and so that's

15:54from the perspective of the audience which means the money people realizing like well people aren't

15:59going to see this or the word of mouth is going to be very negative and we're not going to get any

16:03return on our investment so there's you know there there's pressure on the money people from the audience

16:10and then on the directors from the money people uh and so you wind up with a product that is heavily

16:17compromised um and wind up winds up just being you know affirming is one way of looking at it

16:23pandering is another way of looking at it and uh and so i think that's that's the real problem with

16:29the industry as it is right now is like you have a and this is where i'm going to sound like a jerk but

16:35you have an audience an intended audience that frankly is not particularly sophisticated

16:40when it comes to what they want out of a movie because they're still kind of new to

16:46to watching movies and my hope is that within the next 10 15 20 years

16:52christian audiences who right now are embracing god's not dead

16:57in a few years they'll start to demand more of themselves or they'll like so like so many people

17:05they're like i'm tired of being pandered to i already know this stuff i want something new i want

17:12something challenging and so as the audience starts to want more then you'll have ideal you'll

17:18have executives and filmmakers willing to take more risks but that might just be me being optimistic i

17:23don't know i wanted to touch on the last temptation of christ specifically because clearly like you know

17:32i notice things are probably more important the more time you spend on them and you know you spend a

17:39significant amount of time yeah on that particular incident whereas other things you maybe discuss

17:46them you showed a clip and then moved on but that was like you showed a clip you then you also showed

17:52scenes of people sitting outside the theater and capturing their thoughts so what is it about that

18:00particular movie or like you know intersecting with that time that you think what is so significant about

18:08that movie i think for me because it is the essence of for for a lot of christians i think that movie was

18:19like the essence of what holly of what hollywood thinks about faith now i'm a christian and i adore last

18:28temptation of christ like i watched it and not only do i think it's a marvelous film but i myself

18:33felt um edified a little bit by the movie after i watched it but by the time i watched it which i think

18:42was i think i was probably like 19 when i first saw it and i watched it with i was very wary of it because

18:50all i had heard going in from my community because i wasn't like in college yet so i wasn't surrounded

18:57by movie people but i was surrounded by fellow christians and all i had heard was this movie is

19:03sacrilegious it's blasphemous watch it at your own peril not your soul's peril but you know like be

19:08careful when you watch it and so i watched it and i was like i this is amazing like this is an

19:16exploration of the humanity of jesus we you know we certainly spend plenty of time both in this movie

19:22and in other movies with the the the deity of jesus but not the humanity not the doubt not the emotion

19:29not you know the stuff that that everyday people can relate to but no but like none of the christians

19:36that i knew were willing to to include them partially because they hadn't seen the film like so many

19:42people were condemning the film having not seen it just word of mouth completely free of context

19:47and it bothered me once i saw it it bothered me that there were so many fellow christians who were

19:54who were limiting themselves intellectually and in my opinion spiritually like i think they could watch

20:03this movie and get and feel closer uh to god to jesus in their spirituality if they would just get out

20:12of their own way and so you go back and you look at like this came at the end of the the reagan era at

20:19the end of sort of a resurgence of like you know the the religious right and and that sort of thing uh

20:25the moral majority and it just seemed like this this film was like the official split like this was the one

20:33where everything came to a head like certainly there had been protests before but like this in recent memory

20:38this was like the biggest one where and and probably critics and and audience christian audiences

20:45saw it as like the critics love it and it's getting nominated for awards and it's against us so you know

20:53what so like i think they looked at the acclaim with which it was received by a not by the non-christian

21:01uh uh intelligentsia and they said this is proof like if they're going to champion this movie this

21:09is proof that they are not on our side and so you had a whole group of people and it's clear like i'm

21:16i get i am frustrated i'm more on the side of the critics in this case than than fellow christians and

21:23so um so i feel like and all of this with a lot of people having not seen the film

21:31and so i wanted to spend time on that partially because i also knew in retrospect that there

21:38would be another movie that would come out 16 years later that christian audiences would flock to

21:44but christ but critics would have a problem with which is the passion of the christ and so i liked the

21:49idea of using of juxtaposing these two films both of which got a lot of um attention not because of

21:57the film itself but but people's reaction to it and so i liked the idea of using these two movies

22:04and showing like the the polar opposite reaction to them

22:08you

A Conversation with "Reel Redemption: The Rise of Christian Cinema" video essay creator Tyler Smith.

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2020 Interviews

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