00:00Right now, I'm really focused on understanding, I guess, the people side of this.
00:04How do you actually find and recruit people that are not only passionate,
00:09but genuinely are aligned with how you see the future?
00:15Jordan, thanks for joining us today.
00:17Explain to everybody, 30 seconds.
00:19What do you do?
00:20Yeah, so we essentially accelerate the process for industrial desirers
00:24to bring their ideas into the physical world.
00:26A lot of things in the physical world start as drawings,
00:28and we make those into 3D objects for them really fast.
00:31Very cool.
00:32Well, give me an example.
00:33Let's say I design chairs.
00:36Yes.
00:36What are you going to do for me?
00:38So if you design chairs, every great chair starts out as a sketch.
00:41We help you first visualize that drawing,
00:43and then make that 3D drawing into a 3D object that you can actually manufacture.
00:48And this is known as the paper-to-production process.
00:50So instead of actually automating that,
00:52we're actually helping people accelerate that process
00:54so they can actually keep the sense of authorship
00:56when they're creating their artistic pieces.
00:58So we build tools that essentially help you do that much faster.
01:02Very cool.
01:03What is your secret to make this happen?
01:05Why are people choosing you?
01:06I'm sure it's a very competitive landscape.
01:08Yeah.
01:08What do you guys offer?
01:09Yeah, I think a lot of it is because we honor the craft
01:12of how artists and designers already work, right?
01:15Drawing is something we've done as humans since the caveman times.
01:18We'd use drawings to tell stories and to communicate ideas.
01:21And we really leverage that as a way for artists
01:23to keep that sense of authorship when they're developing things
01:27so that in the final product, it still feels like it's theirs.
01:31So that's kind of a key differentiator, I would say,
01:33about us versus other traditional, let's say,
01:35text-to-image or text-to-this type models.
01:38We're really leveraging different inputs
01:40that artists and designers are naturally already doing,
01:43which is quite different, I would say.
01:45And what's the trick to make that happen?
01:48I would say a trick is not, well, I'm an artist myself.
01:50I went to art school.
01:51So one is kind of having that natural intuition
01:54for how artists would want something to be.
01:56Another trick of that is just, I would say,
01:58having a deep understanding of the workflows, right?
02:00This is not just a one-stop shop.
02:03There's kind of these multifaceted processes
02:05that have to happen for something to come to life.
02:07And I feel like really understanding that
02:09and how these things come together to produce the product
02:12is, I would say, the trick.
02:13There's really no technical magic behind this, I would say.
02:16There's a lot of things. Everything's out there.
02:18So it's really more so understanding how to orchestrate technology
02:21to get the results.
02:22Where did you study art?
02:24So I went to CCS.
02:25And then I studied in an academy, actually,
02:28in Korea as well for a few years.
02:30And then came back and finished my degree out
02:32in Detroit studying car design, actually.
02:34Oh, very cool.
02:35Yeah.
02:36That's a good way to do it.
02:37Yeah.
02:37I love Detroit at Forbes.
02:39So you're an artist and designer by training.
02:42Yeah.
02:42But you're deep into the tech world.
02:44Yeah.
02:44What kind of viewpoint, what mindset have you gained
02:49as an artist that has helped you succeed in the world of tech?
02:52Yeah.
02:53So I would say, one, being an artist.
02:56But then being at NVIDIA for a few years, I'd say three to four years,
03:00at a time where AI was just starting to make a lot of sense,
03:04it allowed me to have a different lens of a lot of the science projects
03:07that people were working on there that might have just
03:09seemed as simple research.
03:10But I really saw it as an application that accelerated my own workflow,
03:14which was just car design at first, which are just drawings
03:17that have to become physical cars.
03:19So I think just having that unique perspective as an artist
03:22for something that's usually fundamentally very technological
03:26allowed me to kind of derive to relatively novel ideas
03:30that normally most people wouldn't have saw, I think, at first sight.
03:34Yeah.
03:34Now, obviously, NVIDIA, one of the hottest companies around.
03:38When I think of NVIDIA, I'm thinking super deep tech.
03:41I'm thinking chip design, the highest end manufacturing.
03:45What did you do with your artist background, design background there?
03:47Give me a day in the life.
03:48Yeah.
03:49So I was part of the industrial design research team,
03:52essentially just drawing products, doing a lot of blue skies thinking.
03:56We were kind of basically like a think tank.
03:58We would basically kind of get these different briefs
04:00around computer vision, the future of AI,
04:02and figuring out how we could make physical products out of those.
04:05And then, of course, you're designing GPUs,
04:07figuring out the best way to cool them and things like that.
04:10But a lot of it was really blue skies thinking around
04:13how can we actually apply a lot of this research
04:16into whether consumer products or enterprise solutions for manufacturing.
04:20Yeah.
04:21So it sounds like you had a really creative, freewheeling,
04:24you said blue sky role at NVIDIA, one of the hottest companies around,
04:28if not the hottest company.
04:29Obviously, it's ups and downs.
04:31Why did you leave?
04:32And kind of what sparked that idea and motivated you to go out on your own?
04:36Yeah.
04:36So this is 2019.
04:38It was something called GANs.
04:40People that are watching will know.
04:41These were like the most popular generative architecture at the time.
04:45And when I saw this, I really saw this as the first-
04:49Tell me more about that because that went way over my head.
04:52So basically, right now, you've seen things
04:54where you can type something and get an image, right?
04:56OK.
04:56That never existed before.
04:58Before, you had to really look at a large bank of images of a particular subject,
05:03and then you could generate just that.
05:05And this was a very huge feat at the time.
05:08And people saw this as just maybe a one-stop shop thing.
05:13But I really saw it as a way that was going to change
05:16the way that artists and designers worked.
05:17Because if you can just create an image in a few seconds,
05:21that can enable a lot of different things.
05:22So I really saw it as a way to enable, as a way like, OK,
05:25well, if we can generate images, why can't we generate images from drawings?
05:29And actually, rendering drawings is a big part of the process
05:35that's very time-consuming.
05:37So me seeing how fast we're able to generate these images,
05:39I thought, OK, well, I should just maybe pitch this
05:42to Jensen or somehow do this internally.
05:44But COVID was happening.
05:46We're all getting sent home.
05:47So I thought that was maybe a good time to maybe just leave
05:49and kind of try doing this on my own, applying
05:52these different GAN architectures.
05:54So yeah, that's when my co-founder Kalen, we both grew up in the same,
05:59we've known each other since sixth grade back in Michigan.
06:02And I was like, yo, man, whatever you're doing over in Michigan, forget that.
06:05Move out in Mountain View with me in my living room.
06:07There's a Costco across the street.
06:09We'll live off these hot dogs for a second.
06:10They're $1.50.
06:11And we just had a few savings.
06:13We had like eight months of savings.
06:14And that's what really kind of built the conviction for, OK,
06:17let's try figuring this out.
06:19And some really popular artists and designers within the industry,
06:22like Scott Robertson, spotted us super early,
06:24started sharing our works.
06:26And that's kind of how we got the momentum.
06:27And then investors started picking it up in Silicon Valley.
06:30Yeah, you've raised $20 million so far.
06:32Today, around $25, yeah, $25 million.
06:35Yeah, close enough.
06:36You've raised $25 million so far.
06:38What's your advice for anyone looking to raise money?
06:41And how did that process work for you?
06:44Honestly, the number one thing is just picking something
06:46that you're genuinely passionate about.
06:49Since I'm genuinely an artist and designer,
06:52I just care a lot about this problem enough to where
06:54it doesn't really feel like I'm building a company.
06:57It's like I'm just trying to solve a problem for myself.
07:00And other people just happen to also have that problem.
07:02So I think as long as you can get across that,
07:05one, the problem that you're solving is extremely big
07:07and can be really, really big.
07:08But two, that you're the person to do it.
07:13It just makes a lot more sense.
07:15And I think a lot of investors and things,
07:16when they see that, they can kind of see the longevity
07:18of the founder really being subscribed to that problem
07:21because they have a very close connection to it personally.
07:24So that would be my two cents or advice
07:26is finding something you're just naturally passionate about.
07:29You shouldn't ever feel like you're trying to do something.
07:31This just very much feels like I'm just,
07:33I love video games.
07:34This just feels like that.
07:36What's your favorite video game?
07:36Right now it's Deadlock.
07:38It's like this game that's invaded by Valve.
07:40I love Gabe Newell over at Valve.
07:42It's the future.
07:44I think that's gonna be like the future
07:45of all video games and e-sports.
07:47Yeah, that's it.
07:48So in a few short years, you went from COVID lockdown,
07:51living next to Costco,
07:53so you could have your $1.50 hot dogs.
07:55They never change in inflation.
07:56They keep it going.
07:57I love that.
07:58So you go from eating your $1.50 hot dogs
08:00to having $25 million in your coffers.
08:04How has that changed what you do?
08:06Um, honestly, nothing really.
08:09Like it's, my life's like, my life's-
08:11I'm sure you have some more employees.
08:12Yeah, now we have employees and stuff.
08:13We've got like an office and things like that.
08:15I am no longer like struggling to make ends meet
08:18and things like that.
08:18But I would say my mindset and like the hunger
08:22to still want to solve the problem is like,
08:24if not almost amplified, right?
08:25Because your sense of responsibility has increased.
08:28So nothing as far as like my drive
08:30and what I'm trying to do has necessarily changed.
08:32But I would say the efficiency in which I can do that
08:35and the tools around me to make it possible
08:38has definitely helped a ton.
08:41But fundamentally things are relatively the same,
08:43I would say.
08:44Yeah.
08:44So far, what's the biggest bet you've had to make
08:47as the founder of this company?
08:49I would say it's the idea of just implementing AI
08:57and creative workflows.
08:58Like AI is a very polarizing subject.
09:01And our approach of having the drawing
09:04being the driving force of the application
09:06has allowed us to kind of stand out
09:08in the sense where we're not in a position
09:10where artists and designers feel like we're replacing them
09:13or kind of automating them away.
09:15So taking this bet that this vision of drawings
09:20being the kind of core value of the application
09:25has been, I would say, the bet there.
09:26We really didn't understand if people would actually
09:29perceive that correctly
09:30or if it would actually be accepted at all.
09:32But it's been quite frankly, yeah, the opposite
09:35where people kind of understand what we're trying to do here.
09:38And we're very much in the acceleration camp
09:40versus automation.
09:41Yeah.
09:41Those are two different things.
09:42That's great.
09:43You read my mind.
09:43Speaking of AI, obviously the spectrum goes
09:45from everyone saying AI is overhyped, overinvested
09:50on one side and the other spectrum says
09:52this is going to be Terminator
09:53and they're going to take over the world.
09:54Yeah.
09:54What is in your mind the current state of AI
09:58and where do you think we're landing on that spectrum?
10:01Yeah, I love this question.
10:01That's a great question.
10:02So I really think right now vertical integration,
10:06meaning like specific subject matters
10:09that people know a lot about
10:11is where you're going to see the most value extracted.
10:14So for example, someone who's maybe focused purely
10:16on like patent lawyers, we're focused purely
10:19on like industrial design.
10:20And I think right now we're more so in this,
10:23you know, a lot of people describe our tool
10:25as it's very much an intern currently
10:26as far as like you're still having to correct it,
10:28maybe still have a lot of human touch in there.
10:31But we're slowly going to work towards it
10:33being more so a colleague
10:34where it's kind of a co-pilot in a lot of ways.
10:36So with that being said, I really see AI
10:39as more so of an accelerant to workflows and processes
10:42rather than a full automatic automated
10:45zero to 100 kind of process, right?
10:47Where people are talking about now these like agents
10:49and things that are kind of like
10:50go out and do their own thing.
10:52I think we're still a little bit of ways from that.
10:54So we're very much focused more so on the idea of,
10:56okay, AI is this thing that you work alongside of
10:59rather than it replacing you.
11:00And I think we're going to be there for a second.
11:02Yeah, at least a few years.
11:03What do you as the founder and CEO,
11:06what do you focus on right now?
11:07Like what is the, what's your goal?
11:09What's the main project?
11:10Like what is, what are you drilling down on every day now?
11:14Um, right now, you know, there's this phase that happens
11:17where you're, as for most founders go through,
11:19where you're kind of, you're building a product
11:20and the next thing you know,
11:21you're building a company, right?
11:22So those are kind of like two different things.
11:24It's more of a mindset shift, I would say.
11:25So right now I'm really focused on understanding,
11:28I guess the people side of this.
11:30How do you actually find and recruit people
11:32that are not only passionate,
11:35but genuinely are aligned with what you're,
11:37how you see the future.
11:38And that's just a difference.
11:40You can't like learn this.
11:41You can read as many books as you want.
11:42A lot of it's just, you got to just do it
11:44and get your hands wet and make mistakes
11:45and learn from that.
11:46So I have to say my main focus right now
11:48is truly building a team and trying to understand,
11:50okay, how big can this really get and be?
11:52Yeah.
11:52Cool. Fast forward a year from now,
11:54what are we talking about?
11:55Oh man.
11:56With you, with you and your company,
11:57what are you working on?
11:58Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11:58What's the products?
11:59What do we got?
12:00Yeah.
12:00So I think a year from now,
12:01we're going to really achieve the concept
12:03of paper to production quite literally,
12:05where a drawing is all you need
12:07to create the physical product.
12:08So paper, 3D printer starts going off
12:11and that's just going to fundamentally change
12:13what it means and to build products, right?
12:15Products are these things that take
12:17multiple years to create it, right?
12:19So, you know, when you start to make design
12:22so accessible like that,
12:24what does it mean for the economy or the world
12:26where anyone can make their own products?
12:27Do people still want to go buy silverware
12:29or let's say go buy their favorite shoe?
12:31They can just like create it themselves.
12:34So that's the question.
12:36And I think a year from now,
12:37we're going to have really big strides
12:39on going from paper to 3D
12:41in a lot of those regards.
12:43We're talking about, you know,
12:45how AI is changing everything.
12:46We're talking about your vision
12:47of turning a sketch on a cocktail napkin
12:50into a product in your own house.
12:52What are your big predictions right now
12:54with the industrial design manufacturing world?
12:57Yeah, yeah.
12:58I think what you're going to see is
13:01a explosion as far as
13:04almost these micro teams
13:05that are able to achieve these, right?
13:06You're already starting to see smaller studios
13:08be able to output a lot more.
13:10So when less people can output more things,
13:14you're going to see just, I think,
13:16not less people,
13:17but more so microcosms of creative groups
13:21of people being able to do this, right?
13:23Like now a sixth grader or a high schooler
13:25can do what normally would have taken
13:27hundreds of people,
13:28similar to what happened with programming.
13:30You know, programming used to be
13:31just this thing that
13:32very specialized people could do,
13:33but now things like Cursor
13:35or these kind of AI assistants,
13:37you see eight-year-olds
13:38building applications in video games
13:39and Roblox and things like that.
13:41So I think now we're just going to see that
13:43in the physical world.
13:44I think the last 10, 20, 30 years
13:45have been more so in the worlds of bits,
13:48but now the next generation
13:49is in the world of atoms, the physical world.
13:50We haven't really seen
13:51a lot of innovation there just yet.
13:54So I think that bridge
13:54between digital and physical
13:56is where we're going to see
13:57a lot of huge advancements
13:58and kind of changing the perception
14:00of what it means to be a designer.
14:01Wow. And for people interested
14:03in getting into design,
14:04and maybe they're going to school for it,
14:06maybe they're doing a career change.
14:07If you can go back in time
14:08and you're like 18 years old,
14:10about to go into art school, design school,
14:14what would you tell that person right now
14:15with all this change?
14:16Like what skills do you need to get?
14:18What experience do you need?
14:20Like what expertise
14:21did you really focus on?
14:22Yeah. No, I would almost...
14:25That's a great question.
14:26And I would almost reframe it
14:27in the sense of like,
14:28what's not going to change, right?
14:30Because that's almost more important
14:31than what's going to change,
14:32especially in art and design.
14:33Tools always change.
14:35The way people do things always change.
14:37But there's always these core
14:38fundamentals that don't.
14:39For example, taste.
14:40Having good taste is relevant
14:42in any context or understanding
14:44these basic things like proportion
14:46or the fundamentals, right?
14:47These things, I think,
14:48are what's always going to be relevant.
14:50So I would really tell
14:52this 18 year old or myself back then
14:54just to kind of really double down
14:55on these things that you know
14:57aren't going to change
14:58because whatever context you're in
14:59is almost irrelevant.
15:00That's why I was able to be a car designer
15:02and then go work at NVIDIA,
15:03but they make very different products.
15:05And it's because some of these
15:06like fundamental design characteristics
15:09were relevant in both spaces.
15:11So I think that's the kind of knowledge
15:13I would pass on to the younger generation
15:15or the past, I would say, yeah.
15:17You mentioned taste.
15:18Yeah.
15:18Can somebody learn taste
15:20or are you just born with good taste or not?
15:22I don't think you can be born with it,
15:23to be honest.
15:24Like maybe, like you could kind of learn it
15:29to a degree.
15:29You could understand,
15:30you could learn the science behind of it.
15:32But I'm a huge fan of like Rick Rubin, right?
15:34Like those kind of people.
15:34And I truly think it's like feels
15:36like you can't really calculate it.
15:37It's something that's more,
15:40it's like how you feel about it, right?
15:42How you make people feel,
15:43like how do you feel when you open your iPhone
15:45and turn it off?
15:45And like that's not something
15:48you can like put on paper
15:49and try to calculate.
15:51It's truly like something
15:52that just comes with it.
15:54I don't know.
15:54It's really hard to teach it, I would say.
15:57My last question, you're an artist.
15:59You did car design.
16:00What is your ultimate dream car?
16:02Oh, I like dream car.
16:06Oh man, oh man.
16:07911 GT3 RS.
16:08It's gotta be the Porsche 911 GT3 RS in particular
16:13or the McLaren P1, those two.
16:15But GT3 RS, I think would still be the one.
16:18That's my favorite car.
16:19That was right top of mind.
16:20Decisive answer.
16:21Yeah, yeah, yeah.
16:21That was great.
16:22Jordan Taylor, thanks so much for joining us.
16:24Thanks for having me.
16:24Awesome.
16:24Awesome.
16:25Cool.
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