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EU-Prioritäten im Kreuzfeuer: Abgeordnete streiten in ‚The Ring‘
In dieser Ausgabe unserer Debattensendung treffen die Abgeordneten Benedetta Scuderi aus Italien und Markus Ferber aus Deutschland direkt aufeinander – es geht um die zentrale Frage der EU.
LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2026/11/12/eu-prioritaten-im-kreuzfeuer-abgeordnete-streiten-in-the-ring
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In dieser Ausgabe unserer Debattensendung treffen die Abgeordneten Benedetta Scuderi aus Italien und Markus Ferber aus Deutschland direkt aufeinander – es geht um die zentrale Frage der EU.
LESEN SIE MEHR : http://de.euronews.com/2026/11/12/eu-prioritaten-im-kreuzfeuer-abgeordnete-streiten-in-the-ring
Abonnieren Sie! Euronews gibt es in 12 Sprachen.
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NewsTranskript
00:08Hallo und willkommen zu The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show,
00:12broadcasting from the European Parliament in Brussels.
00:15Ich bin Stefan Grobe.
00:16On The Ring, debaters go face-to-face
00:19on some of the biggest political issues facing the EU.
00:23Today, we want to talk about the right priorities for Europe's future.
00:27Politically speaking, what should the EU focus on delivering
00:31before the end of its mandate?
00:34Luis Albertos has more.
00:39Europe wants to be greener, richer, safer and more competitive.
00:43But can it realistically deliver on all these ambitions at once?
00:48The challenges are enormous.
00:50An increasingly volatile geopolitical situation
00:52is forcing Europe to rethink its security and economic model.
00:55At the same time, European industries are struggling
00:58with high energy costs, excessive regulation
01:01and fierce global competition.
01:04Is it time for Brussels to put competitiveness first,
01:07even if that means slowing down the green transition?
01:10But there's another dilemma.
01:11Money.
01:12Should Europe spend less, cut red tape and rain in its ambitions?
01:16Or should Europe have a bigger EU budget,
01:18more common investment and stronger social and climate policies?
01:22And does it have the political will to shape its own future?
01:29A lot to unpack here for our contenders.
01:33And here they are.
01:35Benedetta Scuderi, an Italian MEP from the Greens.
01:38She's a member of the Committees on Industry, Research and Energy
01:41and Women's Rights and Gender Equality.
01:43She says,
01:44One of the priorities is definitely to achieve European autonomy,
01:48not in terms of military spending,
01:49but in our energy, digital and industrial clean tech capacity.
01:53The goal is to phase out fossil fuels
01:55and re-industrialize our regions in a socially just way,
01:58thinking of our people and territories.
02:01And let's make polluters pay for this.
02:04Markus Ferber, a German MEP from the Central Right European People's Party.
02:08A long-serving member of the European Parliament,
02:10he's the Vice-Chair of the Subcommittee on Tax Matters
02:13and a member of the Committee on Economic and Monetary Affairs.
02:16He says,
02:17The EU must prioritize competitiveness,
02:20economic growth and simplification,
02:22not deregulation.
02:23We need to achieve the same ambitious goals
02:25with less bureaucracy and paperwork,
02:27because only a strong economy
02:29can finance our climate ambitions,
02:32security and social model.
02:35So let me welcome to the ring
02:37Benedetta Scuderi and Markus Ferber.
02:39Great to have you here.
02:41Good to see you.
02:42Speaking of legislative priorities for 2027,
02:46is Brussels addressing the issues
02:48that really matter to European citizens,
02:51or is it still setting its agenda
02:53from inside the Brussels bubble?
02:56What is the strategy, if there is any?
02:59The strategy is, in comparison to the last period
03:01where the Green Deal was the headline for five years,
03:04competitiveness is the headline of this five years period.
03:07And that means we have to get rid of bureaucracy.
03:10We have to take care on competitiveness of our industry
03:13and our SMEs as well.
03:16And if we have a growth on GDP,
03:18we have a growth on the European budget as well.
03:21That is the easiest thing to understand.
03:23And therefore, growth and competitiveness is number one.
03:26Of course, to have sustainable growth,
03:28to have social economy-driven growth.
03:32But growth is the key answer.
03:34Benedetta, are you subscribing to this?
03:37Growth doesn't happen because we want it to happen.
03:40And Europe is a proof of it.
03:42With all the political powers that are investing in today's capacities,
03:46and Europe that is not investing in its capacities,
03:48is not investing in energy transition enough,
03:50is not investing in adaptation enough,
03:52is not investing in digital transition,
03:54is not investing in a social justice,
03:56because the investments we do are well below what we need,
04:01then we're never going to thrive as a continent,
04:04as a European Union, as a political union.
04:06If we are not a political union, first thing,
04:09then we're never going to thrive.
04:10So, Markus, is Europe investing in an old model
04:14rather than into digital economy, cyber technology?
04:18I think we have firstly to discuss who has to invest.
04:21If everything should be invested by the public,
04:23sorry, we will never be able to deliver.
04:26What we have to create is an environment
04:27where private investment takes place.
04:29And what we see at the moment is that the big investors of the world
04:33are moving away from Europe, from Germany as well,
04:37but from Europe total as well.
04:39And so we have a lack of in foreign investments,
04:41but we have a lot of investments from European companies
04:44outside the European Union.
04:46And that is our main threat we are confronted with.
04:48And if you ask industry, why is that happening?
04:51Number one, high energy prices.
04:53Number two, high bureaucracy costs.
04:56Number three, the level of skills of the employees.
05:01And I think that are things we have to address.
05:03The point is that my country argument is his argument,
05:07because he said two of the three things
05:09that are stopping our companies to be able to invest in Europe
05:11are energy, and we need to invest in energy.
05:14Energy prices are super high
05:15because we are extremely dependent on gas and gas imports,
05:19and that's what is making our energy prices high.
05:22And that's what we need to invest.
05:24That's what we're saying.
05:24And I'm sorry, on these investments,
05:26they need to come from public.
05:28They need to be publicly driven.
05:30They cannot be only public,
05:31but they need to be publicly driven
05:33because we know where the market is going.
05:34They don't care about energy prices.
05:37Like the big fossil companies,
05:39they're making huge profits from our crisis.
05:42They're not going to invest in what will make us better.
05:45And we need to drive that.
05:46And the second thing, skills.
05:48Who can make the skills?
05:49We have the skills, the union of skills,
05:52and we need to implement that,
05:54invest in that, and make it right.
05:56So that means that we really need to be sure
05:59that the skills that we need
06:01are everywhere in every angle of Europe.
06:04So investing in skills, that sounds good to me, Marcus.
06:08Yeah, but the problem is who is responsible for what.
06:10And we cannot say every problem in Europe
06:11has to be addressed by the European Union.
06:14We need member states who really engage
06:15because education, social welfare,
06:18all this stuff is national competence,
06:20and according to the treaties, it's their obligation.
06:22On the other hand of energy, sorry,
06:24you come from a member state
06:25who is a net consumer on energy.
06:28Italy was never able even to deliver
06:30their own energy for its own industry.
06:32I come from a member state who could in the past,
06:35but now we are net consumers as well.
06:37If we have only net consumers in the European Union,
06:39we have a problem.
06:41So where are the possibilities
06:42to produce energy for the industry?
06:45And that will not be done
06:46only by photovoltaics and windmills.
06:48Sorry, we need other sources as well.
06:50And that is what we are not equipping for the moment
06:52because we have a high bureaucratic burden
06:54for this investment, even for a windmill.
06:57In Germany, it takes one year
06:58only to get the allowance to construct a windmill.
07:01Sorry, we are far away from achieving our goals.
07:04Okay, Benedetta, your answer.
07:06Absolutely, that we need to fasten up
07:07our permitting procedures.
07:09Absolutely, our bureaucracy.
07:10But why are you against the omnibuses then?
07:13Because they are not simplification,
07:15they are deregulation.
07:15Omnibus, by the way, is not about cars.
07:17So if you think that to make a windmill,
07:22we need to take away the due diligence
07:24of multinational companies,
07:26I don't think so.
07:27I don't think due diligence
07:28of multinational companies,
07:29that's where Omnibus that you bought it for...
07:31That's not the problem.
07:31Well, that's what you made into Omnibus.
07:34Well, as you made it into Omnibus,
07:35deeper restoration,
07:36you made it into an Omnibus.
07:37I never heard an Omnibus
07:38about fastening up permitting windmills,
07:41in my opinion.
07:42That was not.
07:43Now we have a permitting fasting
07:45that is coming in the next commission program,
07:49and I'm really willing to work on it,
07:50and us Greens are really willing to work on it.
07:52We had the red that was about fastening up permitting,
07:55and the Greens were in it.
07:57But the point is,
07:57fastening up permitting doesn't need to be
08:00for data centers,
08:01doesn't need to be for big companies.
08:02It needs to be for what we actually need,
08:06like windmills,
08:07like solar energy,
08:09and solar support.
08:09We don't need data centers?
08:10All right.
08:11All right.
08:11It needs to be,
08:12just one second,
08:14it needs to be respecting social and environmental justice.
08:17How do you think we can achieve growth?
08:17Look to the United States.
08:19The only driving force is AI.
08:20Yeah, look at the United States.
08:21What is happening with data centers?
08:22All right.
08:23Let me stop here.
08:24Let me stop here.
08:25Let me stop here.
08:25Let me stop here.
08:25We don't have competitiveness.
08:26I see.
08:27We're just getting warmed up here,
08:28which is really good.
08:29But now it's time for gloves off.
08:36Now we want viewers to get a real flavor
08:39of the European Parliament.
08:40We've already got this a little bit,
08:42where members ask each other questions.
08:45And Benedetta,
08:46I'd like you to ask the first question to Marcus.
08:49So as we were getting into it,
08:51we have a huge need to achieve our digital autonomy
08:55and our digital strategy.
08:57So I'm just wondering,
08:58but we cannot do this if we are selling out our data,
09:03our resources to big American big tech.
09:06So I'm wondering if the EPP is fine
09:09to have a European Digital Strategy and Implementation Act,
09:13but most of all to have regulation
09:15and a clear authorization process for data center
09:19in order to not give our data and our energy
09:22and our water to big American big techs
09:25that will not do anything about digital autonomy.
09:29So do you want to have a strong regulation
09:31for data center
09:32and a strong strategy for digital autonomy
09:34for having European data centers?
09:37I think that is not the right question.
09:39The question is even for European investors,
09:42and I have a few of them in Germany
09:43who really want to invest in data centers
09:45to safeguard, for example,
09:47the data protection regulation,
09:49which means data from Europe should stay in Europe
09:52and not misused by NSA in the United States.
09:56But they have a problem to get allowance,
09:59to have the energy,
10:00to get the allowance for the water.
10:02Sorry if you make a strategy
10:04only protecting for other investments,
10:06but not taking care
10:07that the investments are taking place.
10:09Sorry, that is what you're doing
10:10because you don't grant the energy.
10:13We have only four places in Germany
10:15where you have enough energy
10:16to run a data center.
10:18Sorry, that is the challenge.
10:19It's not the question who is investing.
10:20No one can invest
10:22because the infrastructure is not appropriate.
10:25And you are defending
10:26that we can invest in the infrastructure,
10:28which is a public demand,
10:30but then private investors will come
10:31even from inside the European Union.
10:33That is the wrong approach.
10:35Sorry, but then if we see 90% of the data center
10:38that are asking and are doing the data center
10:41is American companies.
10:43It's not European companies.
10:44If you see an island
10:45where 20% of electricity is for American companies,
10:4820% of electricity is for data center.
10:50And most of it is for American companies.
10:52Look at Italy.
10:53Sorry, get out of Germany.
10:54If this is the situation in Germany,
10:55look at Europe.
10:56Look at Finland.
10:57They destroyed the forest for American companies.
10:59Yeah, but Ireland is a very special problem
10:59which we have for years.
11:00So if you don't have regulation against this,
11:02then you're not going to have...
11:03Sorry, if you know everything better,
11:04we can stop the discussion.
11:05It's now my turn to ask a question to you.
11:07No, that's what we don't want.
11:08On the contrary,
11:09Marcus, I want to ask Benedetta a question now.
11:12Yeah, that's what I wanted to do,
11:13but thanks that I have a chance.
11:16Your group, the Green Group,
11:17calls the program for next year,
11:19and I quote,
11:20an attack against nature.
11:22Are you really sure
11:23that you are reading correctly
11:25what the commission has proposed?
11:26Are you really sure
11:27if we are reviewing any regulation
11:30after five years?
11:31And we have, for example,
11:32the habitat regulation,
11:33which is older than 35 years,
11:35and a lot of things have changed
11:37that we have a look on that
11:39and that is not an attack against nature,
11:41but really adjusting to a new situation?
11:45I think that adjusting to a new situation
11:48would be extremely great
11:49if you look at what is the situation,
11:50but it looks like the EPP
11:52is not looking at the climate collapse.
11:54You're not able to do anything about the climate...
11:57What is your proof for this race?
11:59Sorry, that is unacceptable.
12:01That is unacceptable, really.
12:02Why is EPP...
12:03Because all the omnibus,
12:04as you're really right for them,
12:05are going against anything
12:07that would be a climate...
12:09Which omnibus?
12:10Tell me, which omnibus?
12:11I told you, deforestation.
12:13The omnibus...
12:14The omnibus on...
12:14Deforestation is not in an omnibus.
12:16Sorry, don't tell stories
12:18which are not the truth.
12:19You are talking...
12:20In which omnibus is deforestation?
12:22Tell me.
12:22You are taking away...
12:23It's not right what you are saying.
12:25Due diligence, then.
12:27It was one of the strongest things
12:28that we had for the climate...
12:29Thunder Lion said in 2019...
12:31So he said that I'm not making a spec.
12:33The rise to the moon.
12:34But the rise to the moon
12:35did not work with bureaucracy.
12:37It worked with technology.
12:39And that is what...
12:39We don't need the rise to the moon.
12:40We need to protect these planets.
12:43We need to protect this planet.
12:44We don't need the rise to the moon.
12:45The moon is unlivable.
12:46And you want to make this planet unlivable
12:48as much as the moon, I think.
12:50That's what you want to do.
12:52All right.
12:52All right.
12:53If you like the moon,
12:53I don't want to make...
12:54Absolutely.
12:55What was...
12:55Benedetta von der Leyen,
12:56as I said,
12:56do you support this party 2019?
12:58Just a second.
12:59I really regret that.
13:00Benedetta, do you have another question for Marcus?
13:06Sure.
13:06For sure.
13:07Good one.
13:08So we have need for socially...
13:10for socially just Europe.
13:12And we have a huge amount of our population
13:15that is not able to sustain a living.
13:17It's not able to find a house.
13:18That regards young people,
13:20people of my age,
13:21that regards all the people,
13:22that regards workers.
13:23Workers in cities are not able to go
13:26and work in the city anymore
13:27because they cannot afford an apartment.
13:30They cannot even afford a room.
13:32So I'm wondering
13:33if the EPP is able to look at this problem,
13:35not saying that we need to build more
13:38because many of our cities
13:39have enough empty houses,
13:40so probably it's not the number of houses,
13:43but to say that we need to regulate Airbnb
13:46and to say that we need to
13:48have more public houses
13:50that are actually public
13:52and for actually low-income people
13:55and solutions for middle-income people.
13:57Are you able to say that
13:58or we just need to build with deregulation?
14:00I'm a little bit surprised
14:01that you have taken EPP
14:02as we had the rapporteur
14:03on the housing committee.
14:05Yeah, and I would agree with that.
14:06I would be very happy even to say
14:08one sentence without being disturbed.
14:12That's what you did with me, by the way.
14:14Okay.
14:14We had the rapporteur from EPP
14:16and he drafted a report
14:19which was adopted by a huge majority
14:20by the European Parliament.
14:22And one of the key quotes of this report
14:24is that we need to build more houses.
14:27Sorry, because we have a lack of that.
14:30We asked,
14:31and that part was not supported by the Greens,
14:34that we need less bureaucracy
14:36to build houses.
14:37Sorry, that's the same problem.
14:39In Germany, it takes eight years
14:40when a city decides
14:42to make an area for construction
14:44until you have the right
14:46to construct something on that.
14:47The rest of the world does it
14:48in one to two years,
14:50even protecting environment
14:51and taking care of standards.
14:53Sorry, that is our problem.
14:55And that is the problem
14:55of the Green Group
14:56because you are refusing
14:58that we have an omnibus
14:59for the housing area.
15:01You will not be able
15:02to finance all this stuff
15:03by public investments.
15:04We need private investments for that.
15:06And therefore,
15:07we have to make it cheaper.
15:08And therefore,
15:08Europe can play a role.
15:10Okay, Markus,
15:10one last question to Benedetta.
15:12One last question to Benedetta
15:13in this round.
15:14Yeah, so if we speak
15:16about autonomy
15:16and stuff like that,
15:18I think we have to speak
15:19about trade agreements as well.
15:21How Europe can create
15:23a rule-based world
15:24with trade partners
15:25around the globe.
15:26And I was wondering
15:27why, for example,
15:28the Green Group
15:29was voting against
15:30the Mercosur agreement
15:31with the far right,
15:33by the way,
15:34and brought it
15:35to the Court of Justice
15:36without ratifying it.
15:38Sorry.
15:38I was surprised
15:39that is the wrong answer
15:40for the demands we need
15:41and the Greens are asking for.
15:43Okay.
15:43It's funny that
15:44it's coming from an EPP member
15:46that we voted
15:47with the far right.
15:49No, you vote more
15:49with the far right
15:50than us.
15:51Sorry.
15:51Let her answer.
15:53Let her answer.
15:53But they actually
15:56made agreement
15:57with the far right
15:59to vote about migration.
16:01They brought it together.
16:02And now they're claiming
16:03I spoke about trade agreement.
16:05And now they're claiming
16:06to us
16:06that we voted
16:08in our long-standing position
16:11that was against
16:12this agreement
16:13of Mercosur
16:14because it's first
16:16it's damaging
16:17our people.
16:1725 years negotiation
16:19is fast.
16:20Let her just develop this.
16:21Yeah, and we were...
16:21On which planet
16:22are you living?
16:23Let her just develop this.
16:24Please.
16:25Sorry.
16:25Sorry.
16:26You calm down
16:26because you didn't even hear
16:27what I said
16:28and you're saying
16:29which planet are you living?
16:30So what's your problem?
16:31Because if you hear what I say...
16:43on another planet
16:44because you don't know
16:45what's my argument.
16:46And if you know
16:46already, don't ask them.
16:47We negotiated fast.
16:4825 years is fast for you.
16:50Good luck.
16:50You see, it's just 25 years, 25 years.
16:52We were against all along
16:53because you make this deal
16:55just for profit.
16:56You don't make this deal
16:56for people here.
16:57You don't make this deal
16:59for people in the Amazon.
17:00You don't make this deal
17:01for our farmers.
17:02That will be...
17:03And they're already asking
17:05that review of the deal
17:07because they are damaged
17:08by unfair competition.
17:10You didn't make a deal
17:11with clear rules
17:12about what can come in
17:14because now meat that is made
17:16with deforestation
17:17can come in
17:19which is damaging our farmers.
17:20So you are against
17:21free trade in total.
17:22And you didn't make this deal
17:22for the people in the Amazon.
17:23So you are against
17:24free trade in total.
17:25Because this is going to
17:25damage the Amazon.
17:26So that's my argument.
17:28So who is in another planet?
17:29It's you.
17:30I'm not against fair trade.
17:31Yes, you are.
17:32I'm against trade without fairness.
17:34I'm against trade without fairness.
17:36There is a fair trade agreement, sorry.
17:38We've got to take a break here.
17:39Thank you very much so far
17:41to our guest.
17:42That's it for now
17:43on The Ring.
17:45Stay with us here
17:46on Euronews.
17:56Welcome to The Ring,
17:57Euronews' weekly debate show.
17:59I'm Stefan Grob.
18:00And I'm joined by two members
18:01of the European Parliament,
18:03Benedetta Scuderi
18:04from the Italian Greece
18:05and Markus Fairberg,
18:06Christian Democrat
18:07from Germany.
18:08Today we debated
18:10the political and legislative
18:11priorities of the EU
18:13and we discussed
18:14whether Brussels
18:14is addressing
18:15the issues that matter
18:17to people,
18:18to European citizens.
18:20Now,
18:20what is important
18:21to Europeans?
18:22What are their worries?
18:23What are their demands?
18:25And here we have
18:25two recent
18:26Eurobarometer surveys
18:28that give a pretty good picture
18:29of what people are thinking.
18:31When asked,
18:32what should the European Parliament
18:34prioritize?
18:35Inflation,
18:36rising prices
18:38and cost of living,
18:4047% say that
18:41almost half of the population.
18:43When it comes to the economy
18:45and job creation,
18:46it's 35%
18:47and a little less,
18:4834% say
18:49it's EU defense
18:51and security.
18:52And when asked
18:53how the EU's budget
18:54should be allocated,
18:56employment,
18:57social affairs
18:57and public health
18:59comes in on top,
19:0141%,
19:02a little less,
19:0338% say
19:04security and defense
19:05and finally,
19:0733% say
19:08the money
19:09should be allocated
19:10for education,
19:11training,
19:12youth,
19:12culture
19:13and media
19:14go figure.
19:16So,
19:16the issue
19:18of inflation
19:18and increased
19:19cost of living
19:20is on top
19:20of the list,
19:22not really surprising.
19:24Is the EU,
19:25are European governments
19:26doing enough
19:27to bring prices down
19:28and protect households
19:29and businesses?
19:30Markus,
19:31I'm going to start with you.
19:32Yeah,
19:32the fight on the inflation
19:33is the responsibility
19:34of the European Central Bank,
19:36to be very honest.
19:37It's not something
19:38we can do as politicians.
19:40It has to be,
19:41price stability
19:41is a mandate
19:42of the European Central Bank
19:43and in my capacity
19:45as a member
19:46of the ECON Committee,
19:47we are in direct exchange
19:48with Christine Lagarde
19:49and I hope
19:50as she has resigned,
19:51we will get someone
19:52who will really fight
19:53against inflation
19:54in the years to come
19:55because that will be
19:56a key issue
19:57and therefore we have to do,
19:59as I said before,
20:00some investments
20:01to reduce the costs
20:03as we have high demands
20:04and low supply
20:05that is increasing
20:05costs and prices.
20:07Right.
20:08Benelida,
20:08we've been hearing
20:09these complaints
20:10about high cost of living
20:11for quite some time now,
20:14but yet nothing
20:16has changed,
20:17nothing tangible
20:18has changed
20:19for European households,
20:20families and businesses.
20:22What's wrong here?
20:23I really think
20:24Europe should do
20:24a step up
20:26and should take
20:26a big part into this
20:28because I'm a federalist
20:30and I believe
20:30that Europe
20:31has to have a big role
20:32into the well-being
20:33of people
20:34and that's why
20:34we are asking
20:35for more social investments,
20:37that's why we are asking
20:38for investments in housing,
20:39that's why we are asking
20:40for investment in energy
20:41because what is driving
20:43up the prices
20:44is inflation,
20:45it can be the central bank,
20:46but what is driving
20:47up inflation
20:48is the energy prices
20:49a lot,
20:51what is driving up
20:52the prices
20:53is the rent prices
20:54and so on and so forth.
20:55If we don't do investments
20:56into these things,
20:58then nothing is going
20:58to change for people
20:59and I really think
21:00that the European Parliament
21:02should step up
21:04and should be clear
21:05in what is our direction
21:06and that's why
21:07I was saying
21:07at the beginning,
21:08this work programme
21:09is not clearly
21:10going into this direction
21:11and the budget
21:12of the European Union
21:12is not really
21:13going into this direction.
21:14The moment of crisis
21:16we're living now,
21:17we are even thinking
21:19about decreasing
21:19the current budget
21:20that is like pennies
21:23at the moment,
21:24I think we need
21:25to step up.
21:25You mentioned
21:26the EU budget,
21:27we have these heated talks
21:29going on
21:30for quite some time,
21:31probably until
21:31the end of the year.
21:32What should the EU budget
21:34focus on, Marcus?
21:36What are the topics?
21:38Of course,
21:38it's not only one.
21:39If you would have here
21:40colleagues from
21:40the Agri-Committee,
21:42from Agriculture Policy,
21:43they would say,
21:44yes,
21:44it's very important
21:45to be resilient
21:46in the food supply
21:48and in the production.
21:49If you have people
21:50from Pura Region,
21:51they would say
21:51regional policy is key,
21:53cohesion policy is key.
21:55If you ask me,
21:56coming from Germany,
21:57I say research
21:58and innovation is key.
22:00So we have to prioritize,
22:02of course,
22:03if we have limited resources
22:04and sorry,
22:05the public budgets
22:06have limited resources
22:07on national level
22:08and on European level.
22:09But to be very clear,
22:11as we have for the moment
22:121.1% of the GDP.
22:15That's our budget.
22:16If we increase the GDP,
22:18we have more resources.
22:19So I think growth,
22:21competitiveness
22:22is a key element
22:23even to have
22:23more resources available
22:25to fulfill
22:25all the obligations
22:26people are asking
22:27from the European Union.
22:28Okay.
22:29What about security
22:29and defense?
22:30How do we reconcile this
22:32with limited resources,
22:34as Marcus said,
22:34and now we need
22:35to spend more
22:36on defense?
22:37I first want to say
22:38that I'm a bit tired
22:39of this fairytale
22:40of the market
22:41and the growth
22:42and everything's
22:43going to be fine.
22:44In the meantime,
22:44people are going
22:45to be dead
22:45and starving.
22:47This is what's happening.
22:48If we wait
22:48for this growth
22:50that will come eventually
22:51and will save us all
22:52because the GDP
22:53is going to increase
22:54and then we're going
22:54to increase the budget,
22:55then our people
22:56are going to starve.
22:57They don't want this.
23:00They can't keep up anymore.
23:02So the point is
23:04we have resources.
23:05It's not true
23:06that we don't have resources
23:07because look at the money.
23:08Money is very much
23:10going to very big pockets
23:13of very small amount of people.
23:15So the point is
23:17are we strong enough
23:18to take resources
23:19from who has the resources
23:21because billionaires,
23:22because huge profits
23:23are increasing
23:24and increasing
23:25and increasing.
23:26These equalities
23:26are increasing
23:27and increasing.
23:27What we are telling
23:28to the people
23:29that now cannot afford
23:30to pay for the shop,
23:33for the grocery,
23:34we are telling them,
23:35sorry,
23:35let's make them richer,
23:37the 1% of the population,
23:38the 0.1% of the population richer,
23:40so maybe at some point
23:42with the tickle down
23:43we all be richer.
23:44We say this for a century now
23:46and what is happening
23:47is that inequalities
23:48are just increasing
23:50and people are worse.
23:51So maybe now
23:52it's time to say
23:53to the people,
23:54to 99%,
23:55sorry,
23:56we were wrong,
23:57we want to take the money
23:58from the smallest part
24:00of the population
24:00that has the billions,
24:01from the huge profits
24:03of who is actually
24:04damaging our planet.
24:05Now, in that situation
24:05that you just described,
24:07sorry,
24:08in that situation
24:09that you just described,
24:10it makes it even tougher
24:12to increase defense
24:14and military spending.
24:16How do we reconcile this?
24:17I think we need to look
24:19at security
24:19as a broader thing
24:21when we talk about security.
24:23And one of the problems
24:25of the politics today
24:26in Europe
24:27and in many of our member states
24:28is that we look at security
24:30only as weapons.
24:31And if we think
24:32that we're going to be more secure
24:33just buying more weapons,
24:35then this is not the answer.
24:38We need to look at security
24:39as resilience.
24:40We need to look at security
24:41as digital cyber security.
24:43And I think these days
24:44are really telling us this.
24:45We need to look at security
24:46also as security
24:47from climate events.
24:49Like security
24:50is really a broader concept.
24:52And we need to increase
24:53our budget
24:54to be able
24:56to spend money
24:57on security
24:57as a broader content
24:58and on all the other priorities
25:00because they're also
25:01extremely important
25:02and the survey showed it.
25:03We cannot take from one
25:05to give to the other
25:05because that will not work.
25:07Okay.
25:08Markus, I'll give you the floor
25:09once we've reached
25:10the next round
25:11as it's time
25:12to move on
25:13and go to round number four.
25:20And this brings us
25:21to our quote of the week
25:23today from the EU
25:24Commissioner for Economy
25:25and Productivity,
25:26Valdis Dombrovskis.
25:28He said recently,
25:29and I quote,
25:30In 2027,
25:31we will go further
25:32in tackling unnecessary burdens
25:34and addressing implementation gaps
25:36in areas such as transport,
25:39housing and digital
25:40and accelerating permitting.
25:42Our goal is clear,
25:43less red tape
25:44and complexity for citizens
25:46and more scope
25:47for businesses
25:47to invest, innovate
25:49and grow.
25:51Markus, you've heard
25:52the commissioner.
25:54Do you agree with him?
25:56Yes, it's the right agenda
25:57because as we have
25:59a lack of investment,
26:00as we have a lack
26:01of productivity growth,
26:03we have to invest
26:04in the new technologies
26:05and of course,
26:06we have to invest
26:07in decarbonization.
26:08That's why energy is key.
26:10If you want to decarbonize
26:12by electrification
26:13and you want to have
26:15investments in AI,
26:16for example,
26:17you need more electricity
26:19than in the past
26:20and we don't have that
26:21at the moment
26:21and we have to do it sustainable,
26:23so therefore,
26:24huge investments are needed
26:25and possibilities
26:27to do the investments
26:29and that's why
26:29bureaucratic burden
26:30are one of the key elements
26:32we are confronted with
26:33on the European level
26:34and there we have
26:35to find a solution,
26:36but as well
26:36on member states,
26:37on regional level,
26:38because at the end
26:40for the entrepreneurs,
26:41for the local authorities,
26:43it's a huge bulk
26:45of bureaucracy burdens
26:46coming from each
26:47political level,
26:48so we have to deliver
26:49but member states
26:50and regions as well.
26:51Where do you draw
26:52the line between
26:54deregulation
26:55and sort of
26:57less spending,
26:58less benefits
26:59for, you know,
27:01people like families,
27:03the people who benefit
27:04from the current,
27:05from the crisis?
27:06Deregulation,
27:07maybe the wrong word,
27:07is simplification,
27:08make it easier,
27:09make it simpler,
27:11not make it less burdensome
27:14in the sense of
27:14misusing nature,
27:15misusing water,
27:18misusing animal protection,
27:20biodiversity or whatever,
27:21even social systems,
27:23so simplification
27:24is the right answer,
27:25but that is one
27:26of the key problems.
27:27Inside the commission,
27:28you have silos
27:30of different general directories
27:32who do not know
27:32what the other is doing,
27:33but at the end,
27:34all this stuff
27:35comes to the people,
27:36comes to the local authorities,
27:37comes to the entrepreneurs
27:39and to get rid
27:41of these things
27:42to achieve
27:43the main goals,
27:44but to simplify it,
27:46I think that is
27:47a key element.
27:47And the other thing
27:48is, of course,
27:48to create an environment
27:49where foreign investments
27:51will take place
27:52in the European Union
27:53as well.
27:53There we have really
27:54a lack
27:55and that is what
27:56we have to address.
27:57Okay, Bernetta,
27:58simplification,
27:59as Marco said,
28:00is that a concept
28:01you could adhere to?
28:03Absolutely.
28:03When simplification
28:04is simplification,
28:05we are all in
28:07as Greens.
28:08We want to be faster
28:09on the transition,
28:11but we need to be
28:12knowing where we're going,
28:13so not just step backwards
28:15into our goals,
28:16because it's important
28:17also for investments
28:18not just to simplify,
28:20but to give
28:21a clear direction,
28:22which now is a bit unsure
28:23in this European Union.
28:25We need to simplify
28:26the bureaucratic processes
28:28and we need to simplify
28:29more than simplify
28:31to make efficient
28:31and more united
28:33what the commission
28:34is doing
28:35and what the territories
28:35are doing.
28:36What I'm wondering,
28:37though,
28:38is that why EPP
28:39is not doing this?
28:40Because you're running
28:41the European Commission.
28:42I wasn't using EPP.
28:43You're running
28:43the parliament.
28:45I mean,
28:45the EPP has had
28:46the president
28:47of the commission
28:48for the last
28:49seven years and a half now
28:50and in this parliament
28:51you're the biggest group.
28:53So why is this
28:54not happening?
28:55Why the commission
28:55has not reformed?
28:56Because actually
28:57the commission now
28:58is even more divided
28:59into silos.
29:00It's even more complicated.
29:01Why are you not talking
29:02more with the territories?
29:03Why there's no more
29:04efficiencies?
29:05Like,
29:05I am wondering
29:06why this is not happening
29:07already because we are
29:08all agreeing.
29:09The problem is that
29:10sometimes behind the
29:12simplification there's
29:13no difference in the
29:15bureaucratic process
29:16but there's a lot of
29:17difference in the rules.
29:18And who is paying the price?
29:19It's local communities
29:20and nature.
29:21And this is the problem.
29:22Yeah.
29:23Sorry,
29:23it's not the EPP problem.
29:24To be very clear,
29:25it's a problem
29:26of the institution itself.
29:27Even in the parliament,
29:28you are sitting in the E3,
29:29I'm sitting in the Econ.
29:31When have we negotiated
29:32something?
29:32Although we are dealing
29:33with roundabout
29:34the same things.
29:35Yeah.
29:36We do macroeconomic tools,
29:37you do industry policy,
29:39but there's a lot
29:40of interlinkage.
29:41We never discuss it.
29:42You make your legislation,
29:43the competitiveness fund,
29:44for example,
29:45Econ is fully out.
29:46Although there are
29:47a lot of things,
29:48state aid rules,
29:48we are responsible,
29:50competition rules,
29:50we are responsible,
29:51tax rules,
29:52we are responsible.
29:53You don't take care.
29:54So don't blame EPP.
29:56It's a system problem
29:57which you are not addressing
29:58because you are
29:59misusing the system.
30:00That is what the Greens
30:01are doing.
30:02You live with this system
30:03because you can develop
30:04things which are really
30:06harming us.
30:07Do no significant harm
30:08is harming us.
30:09It's harming investments.
30:11You invented it
30:12and brought it
30:12to all committees
30:13and to all realities.
30:14The question is
30:15how do we get out of this?
30:17It's the Greens
30:18who disturb it.
30:18You both describe
30:19the same problem
30:20maybe from a different
30:21perspective.
30:22So my question is
30:22how do we get out of this?
30:24How do we get out
30:24of a system
30:25that you describe
30:25as way too cumbersome,
30:27too bureaucratic
30:28and to the detriment
30:31of the people?
30:33I think Europe
30:34should focus
30:34on the main issues
30:35which really are
30:36European issues
30:37and not a Christmas tree
30:40with promises
30:41to everyone
30:41and everything
30:42because we have
30:43local authorities
30:44with their responsibility.
30:46I come from
30:46a federal, state,
30:47regional authorities
30:48with their competences
30:49the national level
30:51and the European level.
30:52if we focus
30:52on the really big things
30:54on the European level
30:55we will have the support
30:56by the citizens
30:57and we will be able
30:58to deliver
30:59what is really demanded.
31:00So Parliament
31:01and Council
31:02are co-legislators.
31:05What happens
31:05if MEPs refuse
31:07to dilute legislation
31:09that the Commission
31:10wants to simplify?
31:13First of all,
31:15let me thank Marcus
31:16for the esteem
31:17he has in the Greens.
31:19We are the third
31:21smallest group
31:22in the Parliament
31:23and we are managing
31:24to decide the agenda
31:26of the whole European Union.
31:27This is incredible.
31:29It's an incredible result.
31:31I am so amazed
31:33to be part of this group.
31:34They are the biggest
31:35party in the Parliament.
31:37They have the majority
31:38of the government
31:39and they have
31:39the president
31:40of the Commission
31:40but who is harming Europe
31:42is the decision
31:43of the Greens
31:43that are setting the agenda.
31:45This is an incredible achievement.
31:47You should laugh from us.
31:47But that is what happened
31:47in the last period
31:48with the majority,
31:49with socialists,
31:50Renew and communists.
31:51That is what you did
31:54to deforestation
31:55with five votes ahead.
31:56Do not significant harm
31:57is an incredibly
31:59important principle
32:00that I thank the Greens
32:02to it.
32:02If it's really
32:03because of the Greens,
32:04I thank the Greens
32:05to excess,
32:06not because I'm part of it
32:07but because it's
32:07an incredibly important principle
32:09that I'm sorry
32:10but was taken on also
32:11from your president
32:12of the Commission.
32:13I want to remember
32:14it's an EPP from Germany
32:16and she wanted it in.
32:18And this is actually
32:19supporting nature,
32:20supporting the people
32:21because it's saying
32:22how can you say
32:23do not do anything
32:24and harm me
32:25is harming us.
32:26If it's harming,
32:27you should not do it
32:28and that is the basis
32:29of the principle.
32:30You brought it in
32:30with five votes
32:31majority in this period.
32:33Sorry.
32:35I think there's disagreement.
32:37Fair enough.
32:38Huge.
32:38On this point.
32:40And I thank you for that.
32:41On that note,
32:42we can close this point
32:43as it is time to move on
32:45to our fifth and final round.
32:50As we want to do
32:52something different,
32:54I'm going to ask you
32:55a set of questions
32:56and you can only answer
32:58whether yes or no.
33:00Okay?
33:01So,
33:02has the political center
33:03lost control
33:04of the political agenda,
33:06of the European agenda
33:08to the far right
33:08and the populists?
33:11Yes.
33:13Marcus?
33:14No.
33:15Of course not.
33:16Okay.
33:16Should defense spending
33:18take priority
33:19over climate spending?
33:21That's not the issue.
33:22Sorry.
33:24Climate spending
33:24is a European responsibility.
33:26Defense for the moment
33:27is a national one.
33:27Yes, but now we have
33:28a defense commissioner
33:29and somebody in general.
33:31Yeah, in general
33:31it's not so easy to answer
33:33as we don't have
33:33European projects.
33:34I would love to have
33:35European projects
33:36to finance,
33:37not to finance
33:37national budgets.
33:39Okay.
33:39So, in that case
33:40we are responsible
33:41for climate
33:42not for defense.
33:43Okay.
33:44Actually, we have
33:45the ECF
33:45that majority of it
33:46is going into defense
33:47and a minority
33:48is going for climate.
33:49So, we have already
33:50the answer
33:51where the direction
33:52is going
33:52and I would say
33:53no,
33:54it should not take
33:55over the climate.
33:56Okay, good.
33:58Next one.
33:59Does Europe need
34:00a bigger EU budget?
34:01Absolutely, yes.
34:03No, more focused.
34:05Okay.
34:06Should the EU
34:07abandon
34:07its 2040
34:09climate ambitions
34:10if they undermine
34:12competitiveness?
34:13Absolutely, no.
34:14We have to achieve both,
34:15yes.
34:16Should member states
34:17be allowed
34:18to run bigger deficits
34:19to invest in defense?
34:21No.
34:22Defense, no.
34:23Okay.
34:25Climate protection,
34:26no as well.
34:27Is common European debt
34:29necessary?
34:30Absolutely, yes.
34:32No.
34:32It transfers only
34:34the cost to another source
34:35which is not able
34:36to pay.
34:36should agricultural
34:38subsidies be cut
34:39to finance
34:40European security?
34:41Only a little bit.
34:43I don't think,
34:44no.
34:45And last one.
34:47Is the EU
34:48doing enough
34:48to convince
34:49younger Europeans
34:50that the European
34:51project offers
34:52them a better future?
34:53Unfortunately,
34:54no at the moment.
34:56I think the EU
34:57is really
34:58pro-European
34:59and we should
34:59help them
35:00to continue
35:01being so.
35:02Okay.
35:02On that note,
35:04thank you
35:04very much.
35:05And that brings us
35:06to the end
35:06of this
35:07strong edition
35:08of The Ring.
35:10Thanks again
35:10to Benedetta Scudeli
35:11and Markus Febber
35:12for a lively
35:13conversation
35:14here from
35:15the European Parliament.
35:16Thanks to our
35:17audience at home.
35:18If you like,
35:19you can continue
35:20the conversation
35:20by sending us
35:21your comments
35:22to
35:23thering
35:23at
35:24euronews.com.
35:25We'd love to have
35:26your feedback.
35:27That's it for today.
35:28I'm Stefan Grobe.
35:29Take care and
35:30see you soon
35:31here on
35:32Euronews.