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Entrevista con Azriel Bibliowicz, sociólogo y escritor, a propósito de la utilización política de este libro por parte del gobierno de Abelardo de la Espriella y del proyecto de ley para que el 31 de octubre sea el Día Nacional de la Biblia.
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00:08Welcome to Interviews with the Viewer.
00:10My guest today is Professor Arriel Biblióvix,
00:13sociologist from the National University of Colombia,
00:16with a doctorate from Cornell University, United States,
00:22winner of the National University's medal for academic merit,
00:25Founder of the Film and Television School
00:27and from the Master's Program in Creative Writing at the National University of Colombia.
00:31Welcome, Arriel.
00:32Thank you very much. It's a pleasure to be here again at El Espectador.
00:36Thank you for visiting. He has been a contributor to El Espectador.
00:39He was an editor at El Espectador.
00:40And I invited him today because one of his latest books,
00:44which is this book of essays entitled The Expectation of the Impossible,
00:47It addresses a topic that is very controversial in Colombia today.
00:50which is the subject of the Bible.
00:53Arriel is of Jewish descent
00:56and has studied the Bible from Colombia in a very, very rigorous way.
01:03I want you to start by explaining the origin of the Bible
01:07because we often have doubts about that.
01:09One says the word of God,
01:10But the Bible has a Babylonian origin,
01:15supposedly from Moses,
01:17But what is the reality?
01:19The Bible has several moments in which it is rewritten.
01:25In other words, without a doubt,
01:27There were some texts that originally came from Israel,
01:31from a time when, in any case,
01:34Many of those texts will also be investigated later,
01:39especially in the 19th century,
01:40in German universities,
01:43The writing of the Bible was carefully investigated,
01:47how this text was created,
01:49It wasn't a text that was created overnight,
01:52it has been happening
01:53And it had different eras and different moments.
01:57The Hebrew Bible, for example,
01:59divide the Bible into three parts,
02:03which is called
02:05Torah, which is the Pentateuch,
02:08Nebim, who are the prophets,
02:10and Tuvim, which are the writings.
02:12So, that's the Hebrew Bible.
02:14That's where you were educated.
02:16I was raised in that environment,
02:17but also later, logically,
02:20living in Colombia,
02:21One never stops reading the gospels
02:23and he also reads many of the agnostic gospels,
02:27who had a great influence,
02:29For example,
02:30for the writing of chivalric romances,
02:32because in the Middle Ages
02:35marked many of the agnostic gospels,
02:46those who were not accepted,
02:48They were basically,
02:49They had a great influence
02:50in many later texts.
02:53Why is it correct to say then
02:56that the Bible is the word of God
02:58And is the origin indeed from Moses or not?
03:01No, the word,
03:02First of all,
03:03The Bible was written by human beings,
03:04It was not written by God,
03:06not even by the hand of God,
03:08nor for any of this.
03:09I mean,
03:10The Bible is a text made by humans.
03:13Furthermore,
03:14at times,
03:15The thing is,
03:16clear,
03:17It undermined his legitimacy
03:19if we had said
03:20which were anonymous texts.
03:22And therefore,
03:23were attributed to him
03:25to certain figures
03:26which gave them legitimacy.
03:28For example,
03:29the first five books
03:30They are said to be
03:31basically the books of Moses,
03:35because they place Moses as the author.
03:38The alleged psalms of David
03:40They belong to King David.
03:45Solomon has three books
03:47which are
03:51Song of Songs,
03:53Proverbs,
03:55and
03:56What was the other one?
03:57Well,
03:58There are three books
03:59that are attributed to Solomon.
04:01But,
04:02anyway,
04:03These are books,
04:04They are mythical authors,
04:07They are mythical authors,
04:08They are not the real authors
04:10within the text.
04:11Now,
04:12some of the prophets
04:13Yes, they really were.
04:15For example,
04:15Jeremiah we know
04:16who wrote the text of Jeremiah.
04:18Now,
04:19the text of Isaiah,
04:21we know they were schools,
04:23They were movements,
04:24The prophets were movements.
04:27And Isaiah,
04:28the prophecies of Isaiah
04:30they begin,
04:32They cover a period
04:33250 years.
04:36Logically,
04:37no human being
04:38live 250 years.
04:40It was the school
04:41from Isaiah
04:42the one,
04:43somehow,
04:44This text was produced.
04:46Now,
04:47the famous
04:48minor prophets,
04:50because they weren't
04:51minor prophets.
04:52The thing is
04:53the Bible
04:55it was written
04:55from rolls.
04:57From papyrus,
04:58on papyrus.
04:58From papyrus
04:59and parchments.
05:01So,
05:02they were rolls
05:02those who wrote the Bible.
05:04The first five rolls,
05:05That's what we call
05:06the Pentateuch.
05:08The Minor Prophets
05:10They were one roll,
05:11not because they were minors,
05:13but because there was room for everyone
05:14on a single roll.
05:16Then came
05:16the other prophets,
05:17like Jeremiah,
05:18which has its own thing,
05:19Ezekiel has his own thing going on,
05:22Isaiah has his own stories.
05:24So,
05:25Accordingly,
05:26The Bible is a series
05:27of rolls,
05:29rolls that keep accumulating
05:30and that are written
05:31at different times.
05:33Everything before Christ.
05:35Everything before Christ.
05:37But, for example,
05:38There are elements that appear.
05:39For example,
05:40Deuteronomy
05:42It's a book
05:43that is attributed to him
05:45to Moses,
05:45but it is discovered
05:46in the...
05:47it is supposed
05:49that is discovered
05:49in the Temple of Jerusalem
05:51in the year
05:52600 BC,
05:55in the 6th century
05:56B.C,
05:57at the time
05:57of King Jeremiah,
05:58of King Josiah.
05:59Josiah.
06:01Well,
06:02obviously
06:02there cannot be
06:03written by Moses.
06:05And it had already been seen,
06:07analyses had already been done
06:08that many
06:08of genealogies
06:10that appear in the Bible
06:11They are later than Moses,
06:13therefore,
06:13He couldn't have written them.
06:14But we're talking,
06:16to locate
06:17to people
06:18geographically,
06:19We're talking
06:19from Persia
06:20or Iran.
06:22No,
06:22Yes, well,
06:23in Persia or Iran
06:24when...
06:24What happens is this,
06:25This is the first part
06:27that are being written
06:28in Israel.
06:29Yeah.
06:29But these are books
06:30that somehow
06:32when
06:33Nebuchadnezzar,
06:35king of Babylon,
06:37invades Israel
06:39and to Judea
06:39and destroys
06:40the temple of Jerusalem,
06:42it is carried
06:42to the Jews
06:45to Persia.
06:47Ah, okay.
06:47He takes them away
06:48to Babylon.
06:49They are going to live
06:50in Babylon
06:5150 years.
06:52In those 50 years
06:54that's when it's written,
06:55is assembled
06:57the Bible
06:58because they are collected
06:59the texts
07:00and they assemble
07:01for the first time.
07:02Now,
07:03What texts
07:03Did they have to be assembled?
07:05Well,
07:06there was,
07:07Anyway,
07:07the Jewish world
07:08It was not monolithic.
07:10So,
07:11after King Solomon,
07:12For example,
07:13due to the costs,
07:15the famous King Solomon
07:16He had a reputation
07:17of a wise man,
07:18But he wasn't that wise.
07:19First of all,
07:20for many reasons,
07:22because he left it ruined
07:23the country,
07:24because also
07:25taxes
07:26which forced
07:27to the people
07:28to pay
07:28for construction
07:29of the temple.
07:30There were a lot
07:31of reasons
07:31what they were doing
07:32that it was...
07:33Yes indeed,
07:34They created him
07:34mythology
07:35what was it
07:35a wise king,
07:37but I think
07:39who gets married
07:40with more than a thousand people
07:42it just can't be
07:43so wise.
07:45But anyway,
07:46because it is supposed
07:47who got married
07:48with 700 women
07:50distributing them
07:51to each one
07:53in their negotiation
07:55policy
07:57northern cities,
07:59which created
08:00animosity
08:01with the gigantic north.
08:03When Solomon dies
08:04and Rehoboam arrives
08:06to be king
08:07from Israel,
08:09of the kingdom of Israel,
08:11suddenly it splits
08:12And there's an earthquake
08:14and the north is gone
08:15and turns
08:16the kingdom of Israel
08:17and the south
08:18it becomes
08:18the kingdom of Judea.
08:19The ten tribes
08:21most important
08:21They're going to Israel
08:22and two tribes
08:23they stay
08:24basically
08:25in Judea.
08:26But that moment
08:27History is key
08:27because that's when
08:28the Bible
08:29it is assimilated
08:30or it starts to be used
08:32within a
08:33State policy.
08:34Yeah,
08:35but not only
08:35that,
08:36but at that moment
08:37They are divided,
08:38the stories
08:39They're going to become
08:39to tell
08:40otherwise.
08:41Okay.
08:41Because in Israel
08:42They're going to tell
08:43Many of the stories,
08:44For example,
08:46the story
08:46from paradise,
08:47the story
08:48of Noah,
08:50the story
08:51of Abraham,
08:52I mean,
08:52and appear
08:52the famous
08:53doublets.
08:54The doublets
08:55They're going to be
08:56fundamentals
08:57to understand
08:58how it was written
08:59the Bible,
09:00because it means
09:01that becomes
09:02to tell
09:03the same story
09:04but different.
09:05What's happening there
09:06the thing is
09:07the doublets,
09:08in one of the doublets
09:10God appears
09:11as Elohim
09:11and in the other
09:12appears as Jehovah.
09:15Now,
09:15curiously,
09:17the texts
09:18of Elohim
09:19were written
09:20in the north
09:21and in the texts
09:23of Jehovah
09:24were written
09:25in the south.
09:26Therefore,
09:27There were different
09:28versions
09:29of the same story.
09:31What's happening
09:32With that?
09:33Well,
09:34in the century
09:36seventh,
09:38the
09:38Assyrians
09:40invade
09:40to Israel
09:41And that's it.
09:42Israel.
09:43I mean,
09:44scatter
09:44at
09:45ten tribes
09:46from Israel
09:47And that's why
09:48There's even a myth about it.
09:49about the ten tribes
09:50losses,
09:50But let's not go in.
09:51to that,
09:51but the Bible
09:53It is full of myths
09:54anyway.
09:55What about that?
09:57Well,
09:57that much
09:58of the people
09:58from Israel
09:59He went to Judea,
10:00But they left.
10:00with his books.
10:03When
10:04Nebuchadnezzar,
10:05king of Babylon,
10:06invades Jerusalem,
10:08both the books
10:09of Judea
10:09like books
10:10from Israel
10:11they take
10:12to Babylon
10:12and in Babylon
10:14They are going to be assembled,
10:17but to assemble them
10:18they decided
10:19do not join
10:21the stories,
10:22but leave them
10:23each one separate.
10:24That's where they appear
10:25the doublets
10:25which allowed us
10:27see
10:27how from some
10:28way there was
10:29contradictions,
10:30There were differences
10:31of the same religion,
10:33of the same story.
10:35What it means
10:36that not even
10:37the Bible
10:37in its beginning
10:38It was monolithic,
10:39nor did I have
10:40one single truth.
10:41That's why
10:42appear
10:43two creations,
10:45that's why
10:46appears
10:47the story
10:48of Noah,
10:48It also bends,
10:50one appears
10:51a dove
10:52which is the one that
10:53he tells her
10:53that it's over
10:54the flood,
10:55in the other
10:55It's a crow.
10:56So,
10:56There are several,
10:57They are stories
10:58divergent.
10:59But since then
11:00begins to be used
11:01as a truth
11:02of the State.
11:03Yeah,
11:03Well,
11:04clear,
11:04because of all
11:05ways
11:06the versions
11:07They were political,
11:08It wasn't that they were
11:09neutral versions,
11:12each one had
11:12its reason for being.
11:14Because?
11:14Because those from the north
11:15They were Moseses
11:17and those from the south
11:18They were Aronites
11:19and also
11:21the Aronites
11:22They were very strong
11:23because they were
11:23the priests.
11:25when he leaves
11:26to look
11:27a bit
11:28the story
11:28already
11:29of what was
11:31the story
11:32from Israel
11:33looking at the texts,
11:35a good part
11:36of those stories
11:37which are the ones that form
11:38part of Leviticus,
11:39the part
11:40of Numbers and everything,
11:40were written
11:42by the priests.
11:44So,
11:45clear,
11:46There was one thing
11:46policy behind
11:47of all this,
11:48This is not neutral.
11:49the Bible
11:50It is a text
11:51also politician
11:52and it is a text
11:54political
11:55always
11:55It is a text
11:56always political.
11:58Even if we go
11:59to the gospels,
12:00the four gospels
12:02that were chosen,
12:03which are the canonical ones,
12:05are chosen
12:06in the year
12:07325
12:08in Nicaea,
12:10in Constantinople,
12:12when already
12:14it is decided
12:16that these are
12:17those who must enter,
12:18but there was
12:19more than 80
12:21apocryphal gospels.
12:23What happened
12:24with those gospels
12:24Apocrypha?
12:26Well, that
12:27were considered
12:29that were not
12:29important.
12:31Inside
12:32of the apocryphal
12:32there were texts
12:34Very interesting,
12:35such as
12:35the gospel
12:36of Thomas,
12:37because it is supposed
12:38that in the gospel
12:39of Thomas
12:39There were sayings
12:40of Jesus,
12:42authentic Jesus,
12:43however,
12:44He didn't enter
12:44because it was a text
12:45Gnostic,
12:46which also
12:47sample
12:48that there was politics
12:49behind
12:50of the selection
12:51of the gospels.
12:52Now,
12:53always the Bible
12:54It has been a text
12:55political
12:55and it always has been
12:56a text
12:57mythological,
12:59I mean,
12:59They are stories
13:00and fables
13:01that have been written
13:03to build
13:04a version
13:04of history.
13:05Clear,
13:06taking into account
13:07that story,
13:08taking into account
13:09his Jewish upbringing,
13:10taking into account
13:11his sociological training,
13:13What do you think today?
13:14when he sees
13:15in Colombia
13:16a government
13:17that supposedly
13:17is formed
13:19from
13:20from that book
13:21elderly,
13:22they even sent
13:23print
13:24Bibles
13:25that says
13:25Defenders
13:26of the Fatherland
13:27and calls itself
13:29The Miracle Homeland.
13:30The Bible
13:31has always been
13:32based on assumptions
13:33miracles.
13:33What do you think about that?
13:34Yes, well,
13:34Look,
13:35There is an old tradition
13:38of prophets
13:39miraculous
13:42that begins
13:44basically
13:44with Moses,
13:45Moses
13:46It's going to divide
13:47the waters,
13:48Moses is,
13:49But there are times
13:50which are
13:50absolutely
13:51wonderful
13:51because still
13:53in the case
13:53of Moses
13:54that brought
13:54a stick
13:55which was called
13:56Nejustan
13:57which was a
13:57supposedly
13:58a snake,
14:00when the boot
14:00to the floor
14:01it becomes
14:02a snake
14:02and history,
14:05account
14:05from the Bible
14:06It also counts
14:07like at that moment
14:09the priests
14:11of the pharaoh
14:12they arrived
14:13and they told him
14:13Well, that trick
14:14We already know him
14:15and they did the same.
14:16I mean,
14:17It's interesting.
14:18that fact
14:19to see
14:19which were tricks,
14:20that still
14:21in Moses
14:22But of course
14:23the
14:25because
14:26there was
14:27prophets
14:28miracle workers?
14:29Because that was the way
14:30to convince
14:30to the people
14:31about what
14:32they had
14:33the word
14:34of God.
14:35Now,
14:35the drama
14:36from the Bible
14:38is that he believes
14:39which is the word
14:40of God,
14:40It's not the word
14:41of human beings,
14:42is the word
14:43of the prophets,
14:44is the word
14:45by different authors
14:46that change
14:47and that are
14:48varied
14:49and it depends
14:50of the time
14:51in which also
14:51they lived.
14:53Always me
14:54He called me
14:54a lot of attention
14:55within the gospels
14:57the gospel
14:57by Marcos
14:58because it seems to me
14:58that still
14:59Marcos looks
15:00to Jesus
15:01like a man
15:03more than any
15:03another thing,
15:04it is probably
15:05the gospel
15:06more problematic
15:06for the church
15:07because, for example,
15:08It begins with
15:09John the Baptist
15:12Jesus kneeling
15:13in front of John the Baptist
15:14so
15:15How is this possible?
15:15that God
15:16would have knelt down
15:18in front of a man
15:19and there were other elements
15:21who were problematic
15:23in that gospel
15:25which makes it
15:26the least
15:26read
15:27really
15:28in the churches
15:29but
15:30there is a point
15:31one moment
15:32which is wonderful
15:33that's when
15:33in Mark
15:34says that Jesus
15:35He was going to perform a miracle
15:36and it didn't work out for him
15:37so
15:38It is absolutely
15:39marvelous
15:40because
15:40clear
15:42the tricks
15:43sometimes they fail
15:44and also
15:46besides
15:47That's what I said
15:49Espinosa
15:49Barujo Espinosa
15:50which said
15:51Look at the miracles
15:52They are against nature
15:53They go against
15:54of nature
15:55I mean
15:56believe in miracles
15:57It's a little
15:58problematic
15:59and if we
16:00in Colombia
16:00we believe that
16:02the homeland
16:02it's going to become
16:03miracle
16:03the miracle homeland
16:04It's going to be a homeland
16:05against nature
16:06so
16:08But that story
16:09that story
16:10from the Bible
16:11legal
16:11political power
16:12to the tricks
16:14of politics
16:14It is also
16:15ancient
16:16clear
16:16It comes from all
16:17the eras
16:18it was necessary
16:19we need to understand
16:20that they had to convince
16:21to the people
16:22it was necessary to create
16:23certain visions
16:24But look
16:25the story of Moses
16:26always
16:26It remains important
16:28because
16:29look at that
16:30when he releases
16:31to the people
16:31He already has it
16:32on this
16:33it is already assumed
16:34that he gave them
16:35the ten commandments
16:36He already did
16:36it's going down
16:37of the mountain
16:38and that finds
16:38a golden calf
16:40I mean
16:41they threw themselves
16:41backwards
16:42they started
16:43again
16:43to wash
16:45to the ox
16:47to the golden calf
16:49and of course
16:49He gets furious
16:51and breaks
16:51break up with him
16:52I mean
16:55there always is
16:56this thing
16:57to throw
16:58backwards
16:58the conservative
17:00return
17:01backwards
17:02which is what
17:02we are seeing
17:03here in the country
17:04at the moment
17:05is to return
17:06to Laureanism
17:08clear
17:08but
17:09has just been eradicated
17:10a bill
17:11that says
17:12that on October 31
17:14on Halloween
17:15It's going to be a national day
17:16from the Bible
17:17What do you think about that?
17:18well
17:19I think that
17:21Halloween
17:21It's the time
17:22of magic
17:22and of the witches
17:23So it seems to me
17:24How perfect!
17:25Well, let's see.
17:26anyway
17:27because anyway
17:28look
17:29It's very funny
17:30because
17:32the magicians
17:33they were frowned upon
17:35in the Bible
17:36and when it is written
17:37the gospel
17:38Matthew's
17:39and Lucas's
17:41that appear
17:41the Three Wise Men
17:42because they were not kings
17:44They were magicians
17:45It was in the Middle Ages
17:47that they gave
17:47the title of kings
17:49because the magicians
17:49they were frowned upon
17:50and they were not recognized
17:52as something positive
17:55That's why
17:56reading
17:57changes
18:01the Bible
18:02has had
18:02moments
18:03in which it is added
18:04paragraphs
18:04in the Middle Ages
18:06it was added
18:06many paragraphs
18:08to the gospels
18:10in order to adjust them
18:12to many things
18:14I mean
18:14But at what point
18:17transcendence
18:19We're talking
18:20from the book
18:21more transcendent
18:22along
18:23of history
18:23clear
18:24But it's a legendary book.
18:25exact
18:26But at what point
18:28You just said
18:29which is to return
18:31that we are returning
18:32a bit
18:32conservative
18:35old-fashioned
18:36Yeah
18:36to a reading
18:37very literal
18:38but also
18:38has been linked
18:39to fanaticism
18:39clear
18:40clear
18:40because when you believe
18:42that the Bible
18:43the word of God
18:44It's that the Bible
18:45He has the truth
18:46It is a single truth
18:48and that she
18:49it's the truth
18:50And it is the word of God
18:51it becomes very dangerous
18:52has been the subject of wars
18:53has been the subject
18:54of all kinds
18:55of problems
18:56yes of course
18:57we are
18:57I mean
18:58the fight between the Protestants
18:59and the Catholics
19:00because they were wars
19:02terrible
19:03bloody
19:03generated by readings
19:05from the Bible
19:06and ways of understanding
19:07and ways of understanding
19:08the Bible
19:09anyway
19:10For example
19:11I could arrive
19:12to discuss
19:14with great clarity
19:15and why
19:15For example
19:16to the Jews
19:18they were confronted about it
19:19that they were
19:20those who killed
19:21to Christ
19:22but if we
19:23we look carefully
19:25what he's saying
19:26in the Bible
19:27For example
19:27the famous story
19:29that Pilate
19:30washes his hands
19:32it isn't true?
19:34Pilate
19:34He wasn't going to wash his hands
19:35because we know
19:36that Pilate
19:37He killed 50,000 people from Santa Marta.
19:39simply
19:41He was a guy
19:42who was known
19:44for being a murderer
19:45terrible
19:46He wasn't going to wash up.
19:47hands
19:47by a type
19:49revolutionary
19:49that came
19:50of Nazareth
19:52what happens
19:53the thing is
19:53like the text
19:54it is written
19:55in the year 90
19:57already in the year 90
19:59had been destroyed
20:00the temple of Jerusalem
20:01in the year 90
20:02had dispersed
20:03already to the Jews
20:05it was necessary to add
20:06the blame
20:07They weren't going to throw it at her.
20:08to the Romans
20:10but then
20:11Let's throw it at the Jews
20:12But if they had been
20:14the Jews
20:14they would have stoned
20:15to Jesus
20:16because that was the way
20:18in which the Jews
20:18they killed
20:19to his rebels
20:21and also
20:22He killed him
20:23He died
20:24on a cross
20:25which was a Roman death
20:27with INRI
20:29Jesus of Nazareth
20:31King of the Jews
20:32the only
20:33that he had mocked him
20:34his
20:35as king of the Jews
20:35They were the Romans
20:36I mean
20:37It's a Roman death.
20:38It was the Romans
20:39those who killed him
20:40but it wasn't convenient for him
20:42to the church
20:43blame it
20:44to the Romans
20:45because at the end of the day
20:46Rome is going to become
20:47over time
20:48in the center
20:49of Christianity
20:51speaks
20:51But speaking
20:52of that
20:53Everything is political.
20:53Yes, but speaking
20:54of that radicalism
20:55What do you think?
20:56we have a
20:57Minister of Education
20:59a minister of culture
21:00that make references
21:02direct to the Bible
21:03this week
21:04enters into force
21:06the interior minister
21:07Alejandro Ordóñez
21:08who boasts
21:09of having burned
21:10Protestant Bibles
21:11that which he tells
21:12Yeah
21:13no
21:13What I think
21:14that we are in a time
21:15of censorship
21:16And it's obvious.
21:18what happened
21:18at the national museum
21:19It was censorship.
21:20I mean
21:21It's not understanding.
21:22the story
21:22not understanding
21:23the complexity
21:24of life
21:25but there
21:26wants to impose
21:27a vision
21:28of reality
21:28and this vision
21:30of reality
21:30because he doesn't know
21:32the variety
21:33the complexity
21:34of the country
21:35and what really
21:36we have historically been
21:37and from the Bible
21:38because it's imposing
21:40the Catholic Bible
21:41clear
21:41and it is to impose
21:42a reading
21:43from the Bible
21:44not the Bible
21:45a reading
21:47very particular
21:48from the Bible
21:49exact
21:50because not even
21:51the Protestants
21:53They would have the same reading
21:54and they are Christians
21:56But what a difference!
21:58there are quickly
21:58between a Bible
22:00Catholic
22:01a bean
22:01a Protestant
22:02There are several differences.
22:04For example
22:04even the texts
22:05which include
22:06I mean
22:07if you look
22:08Well, there are many.
22:09the texts
22:09that suddenly
22:10they do not appear
22:11now
22:11what needs to be understood
22:12that's when it is generated
22:13the canon of the Bible
22:15For example
22:15in the Hebrew Bible
22:16the canon is given
22:18in the year 200
22:20B.C.
22:22because
22:22then
22:24because there are
22:25a Jewish population
22:26very big
22:27there already was
22:28Jewish populations
22:29in Persia
22:29there already was
22:30Jewish populations
22:31in Egypt
22:32There were populations
22:33big
22:34but they no longer read
22:35Hebrew
22:35nor did they know
22:36the Hebrew Bible
22:37It's being done for the first time.
22:39the translation
22:39from the Bible
22:40to the Greek
22:41which is the famous
22:42septaginta
22:44that book
22:45what was chosen
22:46what the 70 wise men
22:48they chose
22:49supposedly
22:50as translators
22:51which also
22:52There is also a myth
22:53that they
22:54they were totally
22:55OK
22:55never
22:56I don't think 70
22:57people
22:58translators
22:59they were going to agree
23:00yet
23:01oh well
23:01The myth is that
23:02They agreed
23:03what they
23:03they chose
23:04It is the Hebrew Bible
23:06I mean
23:07those texts
23:08that they chose
23:09It is the Hebrew Bible
23:11fortunately
23:12among the texts
23:13I've always said
23:14that they chose
23:15the song
23:15of two songs
23:16because it is a text
23:17erotic
23:18And it's very curious.
23:20that erotic text
23:21would have entered
23:22to the Bible
23:22but I think
23:23humanizes the Bible
23:24to a certain point
23:25because suddenly
23:26It is a text
23:27that we
23:29includes
23:30sex
23:31as part
23:32of love
23:32That leads me to
23:33to ask him
23:34from their knowledge
23:36his study
23:36your research
23:39in a country
23:40like Colombia
23:41freely
23:41of cults
23:42which considers
23:43which should be
23:43the form
23:44in which a person
23:44should access
23:46to the Bible
23:47I believe the Bible
23:48You have to read it
23:49also because they are
23:50wonderful stories
23:52poetic
23:54But they are fables.
23:57therefore
23:58one would arrive
23:58For example
23:59nowadays
23:59one to arrive
24:00and believe that
24:01after
24:02we have passed
24:03by Darwin
24:04throughout the
24:06evolution
24:06we are clear
24:07how did the evolution happen?
24:09we are clear
24:10how it all went
24:11I mean
24:12That would be it.
24:13to be ignorant of science
24:15arrive and say
24:16Well
24:16It's that man
24:17was born
24:18thanks to
24:19They made a doll
24:21earthen
24:21and they breathed life into him
24:23I breathed life into him
24:24maybe not
24:25Perhaps there was an evolution
24:27perhaps the cosmos
24:28It has a different dynamic
24:29maybe the world
24:31has today
24:32We need to understand each other.
24:33more like a planet
24:34not as much as
24:35national issues
24:37visions
24:38of the same
24:39mutually exclusive
24:40from each other
24:41No?
24:42Do you read the Bible?
24:43regularly?
24:44clear
24:44well
24:44well yes
24:45I have read it
24:46I have read it
24:47and
24:48and of course
24:49One always resorts to it
24:50because
24:52anyway
24:53influenced
24:54the story
24:55of humanity
24:56I mean
24:57reading
24:57from the Bible
24:58has done
24:59big
25:00gender
25:01many changes
25:01in history
25:02of humanity
25:02one of the ways
25:04reading
25:04at least
25:05the one I got
25:06with you
25:06It's that Arriel
25:07He gives a seminar
25:08which is called
25:09the Bible
25:10as a literary text
25:11what is
25:12to value the Bible
25:14from the construction
25:15narrative
25:15Why do you think so?
25:16Is that look important?
25:18Well, it seems to me
25:19very important
25:19because understand
25:20how to assemble
25:21the Bible
25:22when was it written
25:23who were
25:23its authors
25:24who are all
25:25practically mythical
25:26to the vast majority
25:27It gives another interpretation
25:29from the Bible
25:30makes us see it
25:31from another perspective
25:32Let's see it as
25:33a human text
25:34not so much a divine text
25:36but a human text
25:37now
25:38It is still beautiful
25:39It is still poetic
25:41It remains legendary.
25:44it remains
25:46metaphorical
25:47anything you want
25:48but
25:48The dilemma is
25:49neither
25:50we can reach
25:51to turn it back
25:52like a
25:52as
25:53What can I tell you?
25:56like a sword
25:57that allows
25:59impose realities
26:00No
26:01the Bible
26:02It has always been debated
26:03has always had
26:05that be interpreted
26:06and the interpretation
26:08from the Bible
26:08generates different perspectives
26:10I mean
26:10There is no single Bible
26:12even more
26:13Do you think the Bible
26:14Should it be questioned?
26:15I think so
26:16I believe the Bible deserves
26:17but in the past
26:20The Bible was always
26:21questioned
26:22because of the different
26:23commentators
26:24biblical
26:25and there always has been
26:27various commentators
26:28biblical
26:29still
26:29in the specific case
26:31Luther is a commentator
26:32biblical
26:33that questions it
26:34And that's why
26:35It creates a rupture
26:37with religion
26:39established
26:40of the moment
26:41clear
26:41but they are readings
26:42from the Bible
26:43and yet
26:44one could have
26:45a reading
26:46from the Bible
26:47as a document
26:49that calls
26:50tolerance
26:51clear
26:52Well
26:52I
26:54Yeah
26:54obviously
26:56because the Bible
26:56also marks
26:57the Bible
26:59it remains
27:00a text
27:01searching
27:02understanding
27:04Men's
27:04searching
27:06coexistence
27:07of human beings
27:08I mean
27:09the Bible
27:10He is also telling us
27:11Thou shalt not steal
27:12Thou shalt not kill
27:14You're not going to offend
27:16you will not take it away
27:17the woman to her neighbor
27:19No
27:19I mean
27:20all that
27:20I mean
27:21It is an ethical text
27:24And if one looks
27:25the Bible
27:27as a great ethical text
27:29well yes
27:30It's one thing
27:31but not to impose it on him
27:33to everyone
27:34because in my reading
27:36from the Bible
27:36because there are different
27:37Bible readings
27:38Bartu is an example
27:40many of the elements
27:42that we see there
27:42in the Bible
27:43For example
27:44and that we believed
27:46which are their own
27:47from this
27:48the resurrection
27:49of the dead
27:50That comes from Babylon
27:53It comes from Zoroaster
27:57and even more
27:58the idea of hell
27:59It is also
28:00Zoroastrian
28:02the fight
28:03between the good
28:04and evil
28:04that too
28:05It is Zoroastrian.
28:06that there is a God
28:07in the sky
28:07It is Zoroastrian.
28:10that there is a Savior
28:11who is the Messiah
28:13It is Zoroastrian.
28:14I mean
28:16the influence
28:17of Babylon
28:18and later
28:19which does
28:21the churches
28:22forget Babylon
28:23which is to know
28:24to Babylon
28:25but the influence
28:26Babylonian
28:27about the Bible
28:28and the influence
28:29of Babylon
28:30in his writing
28:32apocalyptic
28:33enter Christianity
28:36in a way
28:37very special
28:37correct
28:38But what is not forgotten
28:39It's an obsession
28:40that is generated
28:41maybe from there
28:42I ask you
28:43that obsession
28:44through the Messiah
28:45and in contemporary times
28:48we see
28:48those who believe
28:50Leftist Messiah
28:52Right-wing Messiah
28:53yes, yes, yes
28:53Well
28:54the vision of the Messiah
28:57I think so too
28:58has evolved
28:59up to a point
29:01because nowadays
29:03well
29:03For example
29:04a vision of Messiah
29:05It loses its meaning
29:07now
29:09What's the problem?
29:10of the Jewish world
29:12in the face of the Christian world?
29:14that they never accepted
29:16Jesus as the Messiah
29:17Well
29:17That's why we're going to end up
29:18with the Jews
29:20we're coming back
29:21to the Inquisition
29:22which is what
29:23somehow
29:24we wonder
29:26the thing is
29:27because at the end of the day
29:28the Inquisition
29:29What was it?
29:29the imposition
29:30of a single truth
29:33and of course
29:34not only
29:34they were chasing
29:35to the Jews
29:35they were chasing
29:36to the Protestants
29:38they were chasing
29:39to the Africans
29:41because supposedly
29:42by sorcerers
29:43by magicians
29:44for 20,000 things
29:45I mean
29:46although there were magicians
29:47within the world
29:48from the Bible
29:50when the magic
29:51It wasn't mine
29:52but yours
29:53That one had to be finished.
29:54No?
29:55so
29:56what we cannot
29:57return to this madness
29:59that somehow
30:00I think it is
30:02dangerous
30:03And I think we need to
30:04moderate a little
30:06the speech
30:07and begin to understand
30:08that the country
30:09It is a country
30:10the constitution
30:11from '91
30:12it asks us
30:13please
30:14Let us be
30:15a
30:16that
30:16all religions
30:18may
30:18enter the country
30:20I mean
30:20that there be freedom
30:21of cults
30:22which is the fundamental point
30:23and that we allow
30:24that people
30:25each one
30:26his faith
30:27their vision
30:28of reality
30:28and that each one
30:30Have your reading
30:31from the Bible
30:31your reading
30:32from the Bible
30:32that's why
30:34all those concerns
30:36and those lights
30:37that they give us
30:37are the ones that
30:38allow me
30:39invite
30:40to our followers
30:41to read the books
30:42from Arriel
30:43because also
30:43the novels
30:44from Arriel
30:45bibliobics
30:46they play
30:47the story
30:47from the Bible
30:48For example
30:49of the latest
30:50of the water
30:50to the desert
30:51It's the story
30:52of the dialogue
30:54from the Bible
30:55from
30:56from the Old Testament
30:58with mythology
30:59Muisca
30:59so that they can be done
31:01an idea
31:01It is a
31:02It is a
31:03play a little
31:04with these two mythologies
31:06She puts them to talk
31:08in a country
31:09like Colombia
31:10where basically
31:11one era a mythology
31:13of the water
31:13and the other
31:14It's a mythology
31:15of the desert
31:15and then
31:16how to enter
31:18to dialogue
31:19with those two
31:20Yeah
31:21That's one.
31:22of the many
31:23and well
31:23and in this book
31:24also
31:24what is
31:25the expectation
31:26of the impossible
31:27There is a text
31:29about the Bible
31:30as a literary text
31:31and there is a text
31:32about angels
31:33which also
31:34They were born in Babylon
31:36exact
31:36it isn't true?
31:37angels are
31:38although there was
31:39because also
31:40evolve
31:41For example
31:42in history
31:43of the
31:44There is a text
31:46which seems to me
31:47marvelous
31:48when one arrives
31:49and look
31:50the first angels
31:51that supposedly
31:52who is with Abraham
31:53and supposedly
31:55Sara
31:55that come
31:56They were men
31:57They had no wings
31:59They were types
31:59common and ordinary
32:00when they appear
32:02in Sodom and Gomorrah
32:03some messengers
32:04of God
32:05They were men
32:05common and ordinary
32:06which by the way
32:07because they were foreigners
32:08they begin
32:09to pursue
32:10and saves them
32:13Loti
32:13and his wife
32:14And that's why
32:15They forgive them
32:16and let them go
32:18before destroying
32:19to Sodom and Gomorrah
32:20But the important thing
32:22of history
32:22was that
32:23Why do they destroy
32:24To Sodom and Gomorrah?
32:25because to foreigners
32:27They mistreated them
32:28That's a lesson.
32:30ethics
32:30for our times
32:31exact
32:33Thanks Ariel
32:34for guiding us
32:35in this reading
32:36the invitation
32:37that
32:37to review the Bible
32:39because it has
32:39many possibilities
32:41of knowledge
32:42TRUE?
32:43yes of course
32:43Don't forget this name
32:45Ariel Bibliobics
32:46Don't forget this book
32:47The expectation
32:48of the impossible
32:49There are the essays.
32:51that in a certain way
32:52He has shared with us
32:53today
32:54Always welcome
32:55thank you so much
32:56Thank you
32:57for continuing
32:58interviews
32:58The Spectator
33:08Thank you!