Most people think OCD means washing hands or arranging things neatly. For the people who actually live with it, it is something very different: a loop of doubt, fear and mental checking that can quietly take over years of a life.
In this episode of One India Podcast, we sit down with Shyam Gupta, OCD Specialist Therapist and Rehabilitation Psychologist, to understand what OCD really looks like from inside the therapy room. Drawing on years of documented cases, he explains why two people with the same diagnosis can look nothing alike, what is actually happening in the mind during a compulsion, and what genuine recovery looks like when it finally begins.
We talk about:
- What the first conversation looks like when someone says "I think I have OCD"
- Why most people live with it far longer than they realise before seeking help
- Contamination fears, checking, and compulsions nobody around you can see
- Intrusive thoughts about harm, religion and Sexuality, and why having a thought says nothing about who you are
- Why reassurance makes OCD stronger instead of weaker
- The "just right" feeling and how the search for certainty becomes the trap
- The real signs that therapy is working
- A message for anyone who has stopped believing recovery is possible
This conversation is meant for awareness and education. It is not a substitute for a personal consultation or treatment. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to a qualified mental health professional.
#OCD #MentalHealth #OneIndiaPodcast #Therapy #MentalHealthAwareness
~HT.178~VG.HM~
In this episode of One India Podcast, we sit down with Shyam Gupta, OCD Specialist Therapist and Rehabilitation Psychologist, to understand what OCD really looks like from inside the therapy room. Drawing on years of documented cases, he explains why two people with the same diagnosis can look nothing alike, what is actually happening in the mind during a compulsion, and what genuine recovery looks like when it finally begins.
We talk about:
- What the first conversation looks like when someone says "I think I have OCD"
- Why most people live with it far longer than they realise before seeking help
- Contamination fears, checking, and compulsions nobody around you can see
- Intrusive thoughts about harm, religion and Sexuality, and why having a thought says nothing about who you are
- Why reassurance makes OCD stronger instead of weaker
- The "just right" feeling and how the search for certainty becomes the trap
- The real signs that therapy is working
- A message for anyone who has stopped believing recovery is possible
This conversation is meant for awareness and education. It is not a substitute for a personal consultation or treatment. If you or someone you know is struggling, please reach out to a qualified mental health professional.
#OCD #MentalHealth #OneIndiaPodcast #Therapy #MentalHealthAwareness
~HT.178~VG.HM~
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NewsTranscript
00:01Hello, I am your host Shruti Sharma and welcome to another interesting podcast with me and
00:07this time the topic that we have chosen is OCD.
00:11Yes, OCD is often misunderstood, spoken about and whispers and sometimes dismissed as nothing
00:16more than a habit or a need for perfection.
00:19But for those living with it, the struggle can be deeply personal and overwhelming.
00:24Today, we are going to look beyond the myths and understand what OCD really is and how
00:28it affects people and their families and what recovery can look like.
00:32Joining me is Shyam Gupta, lead OCD specialist, senior rehabilitation psychologist and co-founder
00:38of Emotion of Life.
00:41Let's explore the science behind OCD, the realities of living with it and how the right support
00:47can help people reclaim their lives.
00:50Mr. Shyam Gupta, welcome to the show.
00:52Thank you very much Shruti, madam.
00:53You know, the first question I would like to ask you is, you know, when somebody has
00:57OCD and when they walk into your room, because you're dealing with the OCD subject for quite
01:03some time now, what is your first reaction as to how do you take that person when he says
01:09or she says, I have OCD?
01:12So usually when people come first time, I allow them to express what they are feeling.
01:17So I always ask what is going on, what is bothering you, what is troubling you, what makes you anxious?
01:23So once most of the people get the opportunity, they start expressing.
01:27Next of my area of concern is what is the different themes and thought that they are going through.
01:34So once they tell me the background of their thought, I am able to understand what is their
01:39subtype.
01:40So this is the initial stage of understanding person problem, categorizing them with what
01:46subcategory, and then along with that family feedback, let's say most of the people come
01:51with a caregiver.
01:52So I take a feedback from caregiver also, let's say wife, mother, father, siblings, so they add
01:59on in the story, what is going on in reality.
02:02So that gives us a picture of what person is going through and what they are looking for
02:06as a mindset review, I always ask them, so what do you want?
02:11So most of the people who come with OCD background, they say, I wish to become like anyone else
02:16as a normal person.
02:18So that is how the discussion starts.
02:20So the goal setting starts with the client.
02:22My question, what do you want?
02:24And they will be saying, most of the people say, I am having this, I want to live life like
02:28you and my family member, my friend.
02:30You have been dealing with this kind of thing for quite some time now.
02:36So there are different OCD people that you actually have met, you know, one who would walk
02:42in would have an OCD where they are kind of repeatedly making things fine.
02:47There could be other person who is, you know, washing hands every two minutes, every five minutes
02:52that we know of the OCD people usually do that.
02:55And there are others also that has that symptom of OCD.
02:59How do you differentiate these set of people with the kind of symptoms do they have?
03:03Is there a list to it that, okay, if this is the problem or this is what they're doing,
03:09then they have this OCD or that OCD.
03:12How does it work?
03:13If you could just let us know, how do you differentiate?
03:15So what person is saying, it is usually cluster of, usually one sub theme, let's say somebody
03:20is talking about thought related with harm.
03:22So they will be talking about harming to others, harming to the self or a possibility of getting
03:28affected with some negative situation.
03:31So that comes under the harm obsession.
03:33Somebody is talking about a sexual, sexuality related aspect.
03:36So when I see somebody the opposite gender, same gender, children or I visualize, I am having
03:42say somebody in the thought label, somebody is doing with me or images popping up.
03:46So that represent the sexual intrusive thought.
03:48So four, five first initial symptom tell me the whole story.
03:52But my specialization usually is in a multiple OCD.
03:56So and I believe more than 30% people have that in a multiple OCD sub themes.
04:01So same person will have it at least three to four sub themes altogether.
04:04I was going through the cases, you know, the documented cases that you have handled in the past and let's
04:11just pick up one of the case wherein a person is bathing because he has a fear of, you know,
04:17contamination and he's bathing for hours, washing hands again and again.
04:22So when you see such kind of a person, what's actually going in their mind?
04:28Why do they do this?
04:29Why does this happen?
04:31How do you figure out that, you know, this person, if he's doing this kind of a thing,
04:35this could be the probable problem with him?
04:38So this answer, I guess, can help a caregiver, especially let's say somebody is a person suffering
04:44with this and family member that they need to understand because the same question caregiver
04:48asked to the client, my client, why you are doing this?
04:51So let's say, you know, if you are washing hand, I am washing hand, we will be doing something
04:56like this and we will be getting it done.
04:58But the person with the contamination OCD when they are washing, they will thought that
05:02their splash has reached to their, you know, this area, their pant, that splash has reached
05:08to their face, their arms.
05:10So then they start targeting instead of palm to this area.
05:14When they are cleaning this area, then they will feel this, get exposed.
05:19Okay.
05:19When they are washing face, they will be feeling my ears get exposed.
05:24Ears also exposed.
05:25Then it's here.
05:26When they are bathing, when they will be cleaning upper side, they will feel down side body get
05:30an exposed splash.
05:31When they are cleaning left leg, they will feel right get contaminated.
05:36Then they will be cleaning right, then left.
05:39When they are doing upper cleaning, then down side get contaminated.
05:42When they are doing down side, then upper side get exposed.
05:46Okay.
05:46So that is how left, right, ups, down, back forward.
05:50So caregiver need to understand how the person is thinking.
05:53I have hand number of thousands of handwritten or now, means typed version of bathing process.
06:01And what I see, person 3R, 6R, 8R, doing the same things with the statement.
06:08Let's say pattern or splash.
06:09Okay.
06:10And that is also most developed country, France.
06:12So, you know, just a little question that actually comes to my mind when you are telling me this
06:17thing.
06:18When we talk about the caregivers who are with these people and the situation that you just
06:22told me, how are they supposed to take this?
06:25Because obviously, first thing, they need to have patience.
06:29And, you know, they need to be persistent with the person who has an OCD that okay, this
06:33person has an OCD.
06:34But what is the first thing that they should actually keep in mind while they are dealing
06:38with these kind of people?
06:39So it is not something generic that can be applied to all caregiver as a recommendation.
06:44Because most of the time what I see, caregiver become themselves as a maintaining factor.
06:50They involve in the process, they start supporting the client.
06:54Okay.
06:55Let's say somebody is saying, validate that I have already cleaned.
07:01Most of people will be asking their caregiver to stand by them, let's say, near around the
07:05bathroom, outside, left side, right side.
07:07And keep asking whether I have cleaned it enough or not.
07:10Caregiver will be keep telling, yes, it is done, it's two times, three times, ten times.
07:15And they will keep saying client, no, you tell me correct, whether I have done seven times
07:19or not.
07:20They will be counting themselves, asking to the caregiver count seven times, but will not
07:24be trusting none of them, either themselves or others.
07:27And then again, the seven times, 13 times, 20 times, 40 times, the number counting will keep
07:32going on.
07:33More they try to do, more they get confusing.
07:36So, family attachment that should be a responsibility of the person as a son or daughter, not only
07:43they are suffering, the caregiver is also suffering.
07:46And that is very commonly seen, at least in Indian culture, the parent will keep supporting
07:51to end the scenario, but the scenario will keep worsening.
07:54That is why I am telling you, no, no generic recommendation can be helpful for the family member.
07:59Because when people with contamination OCD in the bathroom, they do not say or request
08:05like, like common men, they start become aggressive, they start threatening, killing themselves, threatening
08:11for jumping, and number of threat.
08:15So, that is how it becomes complex.
08:17To solve this, make it overcoming, need to take someone advice.
08:22Those who know the subject, those who can ensure that you get a right direction.
08:27If you pick up a case where compulsions are not very visible, there are times when you
08:32know, if you pick up a case where a person is washing his hands or washing his face and
08:36he is doing it repeatedly.
08:37Sure.
08:37One person walks in, could be a caregiver or anybody for that matter who is next to that
08:41person that, you know, it is fine now, I have checked it, leave it, don't do it anymore.
08:47But it doesn't seem to be that simple for the other person, you know.
08:50No, no, no, no.
08:51How does it work?
08:52Not at all.
08:53So, what you highlight, that is very true, that is also for a general understanding, OCD
08:57is not always a symptom based issue, where you will be able to see the compulsion, visible
09:03compulsion.
09:03That's what.
09:04So, if I tell you the number of pure obsession where the physical compulsion is not present,
09:08but there is a mental compulsion present in most of the cases.
09:12So what will be happening?
09:13I will give you the example of how the pure obsession works, which is called as a compulsion
09:17free.
09:18Compulsion will be present, but at a mental level.
09:20Let's say recent one last year, one case scenario, and yesterday also one person came from Noida.
09:27So last year, one client, what he used to have in thought, let you see the complexity
09:32person out of 24 hours, 12, 14 hours busy in this.
09:36Let's say he saw you today.
09:37And after some one or two months later, he saw someone like you wearing the same shirt,
09:43same hair, same facial expression.
09:46Let's say he saw something similar to you.
09:49And then he will start analyzing, this lady looks like that, let's say you are a Shruti.
09:54Let's say he just saw you, but did not know your name.
09:57But will click your image in the head, and whenever he is meeting people like you, he will be trying
10:03to analyze who she looked like, what I have seen in the past.
10:09So I remember similar in a mental compulsion, which is called as a pure one person from Indian,
10:16but settled in Singapore.
10:17So he used to have that perspective of mental ritual, no physical appearance, symptom appearance.
10:23So what he used to have, he has an aspect of keep collecting all the information in the head.
10:29Mr. Gupta, as long as you have a patient coming in saying that, you know, I have a bathing
10:33problem or a washing hand problem, that is still bearable and you can handle.
10:37But how do you handle, you know, somebody who has these kind of tendencies?
10:41What assurance or reassurance do you give them?
10:44How do you deal with them?
10:45Because it's very surprisingly, it's very, very scary.
10:48It looks scary, but I cannot participate in their scare.
10:52My work is to showcasing them the recovery goal.
10:56How do you deal with them?
10:57What is it that you tell them and how do you know that, you know, they are understanding
11:00you for that matter?
11:01Correct, correct.
11:02See, I believe differently.
11:04So I believe the things which is most challenging, that is much easier to handle, which seems easy.
11:09This is that is difficult to work on.
11:12So think about it.
11:13Let's take example, Saurav, Saurav is saying, I am having the thought of suicide.
11:17So I will be asking simple question.
11:19Do you have a wish or you have a fear?
11:21He will be saying fear only.
11:23So think about it.
11:24I will be asking with Saurav a simple question, Saurav, are you ready to do it?
11:29And Saurav will be saying, why?
11:31I am saying I am fearing, why you are asking me the question?
11:34Then I will be asking counter question.
11:36If you are fearing, if you don't want to do this, then where is the point of keep fearing
11:40with this?
11:40You don't want to do it.
11:41The people with societal ideation or thought, thought means those who wish to do it, they
11:46will not be thinking about it.
11:47They will not do it.
11:48Okay.
11:48Those who commit suicide, they don't think about suicide, they do it.
11:51Because they consider it as an easy option instead of facing the life.
11:56But living with this fear also that committing suicide is also not a very easy thing.
12:01True.
12:01So how do you make them understand?
12:03And how do you know at what level have they understood when you are trying to convince
12:06them or reassure them whatever you are?
12:08So my approach is a little different, it is not something like written in textbook.
12:12Let's say when somebody is coming up, I can give you a four or five example of ongoing
12:16or past also.
12:18Why somebody developed?
12:20Okay.
12:20So I believe in a cause and effects principle of this science, whatever, whosoever is coming
12:27as a problem, they have their journey of start.
12:29Okay.
12:30That start from certain point.
12:31And most of the time in a societal OCD, the people observe information from the surrounding.
12:37So two basic principle, they get the information from somewhere, they get stuck with themselves
12:42and they start feeling what if I do it, how it will impact.
12:46And they don't want to do it because they love the life, they want to live a better life.
12:50I have never seen somebody having the societal OCD and they don't want to live, never.
12:54So another fascinating thing that I actually found when I was reading the cases is somebody
13:02who is just wanting to live and thinking, believing, wanting to breathe and making that thing as
13:12a normal thing.
13:12Am I feeling normal?
13:14Correct.
13:14What kind of OCD cycle is this?
13:17Is this also an OCD cycle part?
13:20That is the one subcategory that comes under us.
13:22What is it and how does it happen?
13:24That is a sensory motor OCD.
13:27Wherein a person just wants to be normal.
13:29That's about it.
13:29They want to feel normal.
13:30Correct.
13:30I am very surprised how you know this such accuracy that a person wants to make it as
13:36a normal, different, different senses, but they are monitoring together.
13:40Just need to understand how you know this subject correctly.
13:45So I have just kind of done my research and I was reading the cases that actually have
13:50been handled.
13:50So that is why I wanted to understand from you that, you know, there is an OCD where people
13:55want to be normal only.
13:56Correct.
13:56How does that happen and why does it happen?
13:59Correct.
13:59So why does happen?
14:01I have two answers of this.
14:03One is the person approach of perfection.
14:05They want everything as the perfect only.
14:08And why they wish to perfect?
14:10Because they have a higher sensitivity toward a certain subject.
14:13Let's say in an OCD theme also develop in a particular person in a particular mindset.
14:19Throughout the time thinking how much I am blinking, how my food is getting digested.
14:25This heart is beating 69 time or 72 time.
14:29What if it is become 73, 74?
14:31So anxious throughout the day.
14:32And that developed in the secondary itself when he was in MBBS secondary.
14:36So he was with me for two months in journey understood and then was able to drop stop medicine
14:42also.
14:43So it's all about individual sensitivity towards certain phenomena.
14:47Let's say you might not be fearing about your children's life.
14:51But somebody who develops postpartum OCD usually develops in the early stage of delivery of
14:57let's say one, two or third month.
14:59But it can be developed in later stage also.
15:01I see one lady from Gujarat.
15:03She develops at the age of when the daughter becomes six.
15:06One lady from New Zealand.
15:07When she develops postpartum OCD, that time she has already had a 13 year daughter.
15:13And when second baby born, when the girl leads to the 9, that time she develops.
15:18That is beyond the textbook.
15:20Usually textbooks suggest that postpartum OCD will develop after immediate to the delivery.
15:24But such rare cases develop after the age of 6 and 7 when the children reach to the
15:296 and 9.
15:31So it's lots of complexity.
15:34Indeed indeed.
15:35It's quite vast.
15:36I mean, obviously very vast subject.
15:39Okay.
15:39So now, you know, when you look back, you know, for the people that you've actually helped,
15:47what is that movement that tends to tell you that, you know, the therapy is actually working
15:52for them?
15:52How do you realize it?
15:55So I will give you just simple example of ongoing.
15:58I guess the daddy is going to complete her first month.
16:03Today is 9 and she will be completing on 11th, 28th day.
16:07So once the first week completed, I was able to see the shine of her face.
16:12So I start telling, Madam, your face has changed.
16:15You are smiling.
16:16And she has a suicidal OCD, a classic situation.
16:19So first their body language tells me the person who used to be troubled when they come
16:25in the initial phase, when they are settled, they will be start talking normal things instead
16:29of OCD.
16:30Okay.
16:30Their caregiver will tell me before end of the first month, they have seen the witnessing
16:35the normality.
16:36They are the person is much better.
16:37So how I differentiate the person is improving or not.
16:40So that is simple in the reduction of number of 13 a day and number of minute they used to
16:45spend.
16:45Let's say somebody used to spend some 10 hour or eight hour.
16:48And after completing when I am asking them in a monitoring evaluation template.
16:52So suppose in a, what I promise always 20 to 25% reduction and improvement in science
16:57symptom.
16:58So that monitoring evaluation template tell me after the two weeks what they have achieved.
17:03So they will be laughing only.
17:04And they say usually, we were very silly.
17:07What nonsense we were doing.
17:09Really?
17:09They don't say that.
17:10Most, I would say 99% people say this only before ending 365 day.
17:16They will be saying, I was silly only and why I was doing, I'm not sure.
17:19And we forgot.
17:20So family member also say we forgot this.
17:23That was ever part of my family member.
17:25Wow.
17:25Client also say, I forgot and you are the person who keep reminding me and it doesn't
17:30matter now for me.
17:32So I have approach of adding humor, sarcastic comment from the day one, from the start of
17:36the consultation.
17:38So person develop the ability to take it in a lightest spirit.
17:42And this whole universe say OCD will not go away.
17:46And I always think, you know, you try to control to maintain the OCD if you are working with
17:50me.
17:51Okay.
17:51You stick to that point because my next question is, you know, related to that only.
17:56So you have, goes without saying, seen ample cases, ample people who have this problem.
18:02Okay.
18:02And you know that, you know, this person is of this level and how much of it he can come
18:08out of it and become normal also.
18:10So there are people who have these problems, for them who think that we cannot be normal
18:16ever.
18:16What is it that you want to say to those people that who think that we will never be normal.
18:22What is it that you would want to tell them who are watching this podcast right now?
18:27No, I will be a bit realistic, when somebody is saying, I will never be able to.
18:34So that means they are themselves proving it, they will never be able to do it.
18:38So I am little choosy on this subject, because this is a matter of life and death.
18:43So I see dream always when somebody comes, and I wish to listen only one thing, I wish
18:49to live, I wish to get out of this.
18:53I need, I will do whatever you will say.
18:57So those who are saying, I will never be able to do it, that is not helpful.
19:02Because one principle learning if client understand that I tell to everyone, even somebody saying
19:07like this also, I ask always them, tell me, were you the same person 10 years, 12 years of age?
19:14And person will be saying no.
19:16So then simple things, you develop this in the development journey of your in between
19:2011 to 14, 15.
19:21So the way you learn, same way you need to deal on this.
19:25It's for everyone for that matter.
19:27You know, if you have to get to a stage where you want to become better, you have to listen.
19:33Very simple.
19:33That suppose something you are targeting, chasing, goaling, or having the desire.
19:39But giving a certificate yourself, my one will not go.
19:42And let me tell you one thing that can help people.
19:44And that is what I wish to convey one message.
19:46Please, everyone, whosoever have OCD, stop trying to find the solution on ChatGPT, perplexity,
19:52Google, YouTube.
19:54That will make you confused only.
19:55Because such, Chatsunjan doesn't do any validation.
19:59Anybody can write anything.
20:01What I saw most of the channels in YouTube especially, anybody who has been suffering or whatever education they have,
20:08without developing any specialization, they will be start giving a tool, tips and tricks.
20:12And that is what people who is not a right state of mind, they will be also asking same question.
20:17Suggest as a tool trip technique.
20:19Which doesn't work.
20:21Tool trip technique would be efficient.
20:23Then OCD will not be a trouble.
20:25Whole universe with the information have a number of tool techniques.
20:29But tool techniques cannot be generic for everyone.
20:32Everyone's development journey is different of subject.
20:34And they need to work in a customized manner.
20:36About the OCD, the symptoms, how are they treated.
20:40And of course, you know, people who have this problem can obviously get normal as what Mr. Gupta told us.
20:47This last question is beyond them now.
20:49You're dealing with such people, you've dealt with so many people who have this problem.
20:55In middle of this, how do you keep your calm?
20:58Because you know, you handle patients that have such weird problems and different people coming to you with different problems.
21:07How do you keep your calm as a therapist is what I wanted to know and wanted to wrap this
21:12on this note.
21:13My answer will not match with your expectation and I don't think anybody will tell you this.
21:18How I try to calm.
21:20You know why I am asking this question is because by hearing the problems that people come with and are
21:26coming to you,
21:26I myself found it very surprising and you know, I am trying to figure out what are they doing.
21:33This is the 0.1% I have told you.
21:35Yeah.
21:36This is not even 1%.
21:36I am sure.
21:37I am sure.
21:37That is why I wanted to understand as per your, you know, when we talk about you.
21:41Correct.
21:41How do you keep your calm?
21:43No, I have a little energy exchange from not in terms of money.
21:47Let's say somebody sitting in this, around this studio.
21:49So, I don't need anything.
21:51I need little money to survive, to fulfill my responsibility and sponsoring my OCD treatment,
21:57research training institute.
21:58So, those whosoever cannot afford, we can provide free of costs.
22:03So, we charge little extra just for ensuring that those who can afford, they should pay.
22:09And those who cannot afford, they also deserve the life.
22:12And they should also reach to the level of living a life and becoming the best version.
22:17So, my energy is recovery of client, nothing else.
22:20That is very thoughtful and beautiful.
22:22True.
22:23Thank you so much.
22:23Thank you Mr. Gupta for talking to us.
22:25Thank you very much.
22:25Thank you so much.
22:26Thank you for uncovering that much lovely question.
22:29I am happy to respond to all these.
22:31So, this conversation reminds us that OCD is much more than what we see on the surface.
22:37Behind the thoughts and compulsions, there is often a person struggling silently to make
22:42sense of what they are experiencing.
22:44The good news is that evidence based treatment and the right professional guidance can make
22:49a meaningful difference.
22:50Thank you Mr. Sham for sharing your insights and helping us understand OCD with greater clarity
22:56and compassion.
22:58And to everyone listening, remember that seating help is a sign of strength and not weakness.
23:04Let us continue to break the stigma around mental health one conversation at a time.
23:09Thank you for joining us.
23:10See you in the next episode.