- 7 minutes ago
Thirteen years since the last release of Grand Theft Auto, Strauss Zelnick is banking on the franchise to win back longtime fans while capturing an entirely new generation of players.
During Business Insider’s The Long Play, Zelnick, the Chairman and CEO of Take-Two Interactive, shared the secrets to keeping a decades-old franchise culturally and commercially dominant.
Sarah E. Needleman, Business Insider’s senior leadership and workplace correspondent, interviewed Zelnick about his career in entertainment, his routine for aging well, and his thoughts on AI as a growth strategy.
During Business Insider’s The Long Play, Zelnick, the Chairman and CEO of Take-Two Interactive, shared the secrets to keeping a decades-old franchise culturally and commercially dominant.
Sarah E. Needleman, Business Insider’s senior leadership and workplace correspondent, interviewed Zelnick about his career in entertainment, his routine for aging well, and his thoughts on AI as a growth strategy.
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00:04Strauss, thank you for joining me today. I have a lot of questions for you.
00:09Well, everyone here has probably heard of Grand Theft Auto, but I do want to point out
00:12that Take-Two makes a lot of awesome games besides that. We have NBA 2K, Red Dead Redemption,
00:19Borderlands, Civilization, and one of my favorites, Wordsworth Friends.
00:23Now, we won't spend the entire 30 minutes talking about Grand Theft Auto, but I do want
00:27to start by asking one question. It's been 13 years since GTA 5. What's taken so long?
00:35Well, I mean, the team's been, first of all, thanks for having me and nice to see you all here.
00:40Look, the team's been very busy because, you know, within weeks of launching Grand Theft Auto 5,
00:45we also launched Grand Theft Auto Online. And that has been a living, breathing,
00:50see, someone's nodding. Do you play Grand Theft Auto Online? Excellent.
00:54I had to pay to get him here, but here he is. Anyway, look, that's been a living,
01:00breathing enterprise since we launched GTA 5 with millions of people engaged on an ongoing basis.
01:07So obviously, Rockstar supports that title with a lot of content. At the same time,
01:12they've been working hard on Grand Theft Auto 6. And it's a fair question because once upon a time,
01:19that used to be the case. But back in the days when that was the case, you know, Rockstar made
01:23a game
01:23and then there was nothing to do and then made another game, they were making a lot of different games.
01:28Max Payne, L.A. Noire, Midnight Club, obviously Red Dead. These are different enterprises now.
01:36And we said many, many years ago at the dawn of what we call recurrent consumer spending that our goal
01:40in success,
01:42obviously nothing you can do in failure. But in success, as opposed to like putting out something great
01:47and then people saying like, what's next? Maintaining the engagement on an ongoing basis
01:53by offering add-on content or multiplayer options or the like. And basically, nearly 100% of our business
02:01now looks that way. And, you know, preponderance of our earnings come from recurrent consumer spending as a result.
02:07But that's not the point. The point is that we can engage our consumers in a way that the interactive
02:13entertainment business
02:14could not do at its dawn. And frankly, it's one of the reasons that the motion picture business is so
02:20compromised.
02:21Because you spend all this money to get an audience and then even making a sequel like you got to
02:27start from scratch.
02:28In our business, you know, if we do this right, you never leave us. Or in your case, you know,
02:33tell the truth.
02:34How often do you play Words With Friends?
02:37At least once a day. Probably check in a couple more times.
02:41So my wife is playing Words With Friends with our son and with our, in this case, soon-to-be
02:48daughter-in-law.
02:49It's incredibly irritating to her that she loses to our new daughter-in-law to be.
02:55But she does. Every night. Along with some games we don't own, incidentally.
03:01Okay. So the...
03:01Which I'm not going to mention.
03:03Oh, the best part is, so my wife was like, she started playing another one of our games called Match
03:08Factory.
03:09Who's playing? Anyone play Match Factory here? No one. Well, it's a great game. You should play Match Factory.
03:14She's getting to Match Factory and it's like late at night and she's like, I want some free, you know,
03:20free currency for Match Factory.
03:22So Match Factory, the development team is in Turkey, which is quite a few hours ahead.
03:26So I texted and got her some like...
03:29Wow.
03:30So, wait. So the next night she's like, I'm falling asleep. And she's like, I'm all out of that currency
03:36you got me.
03:36How about some more? I was like, swipe your goddamn credit card.
03:39Like, what are you talking? No more free currency.
03:43No more freebies.
03:43No, absolutely not.
03:45Okay. So, Grand Theft Auto V, just for those of you... First of all, let me ask, how many people
03:51in this audience have played Grand Theft Auto at some point in their lives?
03:54Okay. A lot of people. So you probably know, but just for those who haven't...
03:58Wait, wait. Just because I am interested. So put your hands back up. Now keep your hands up if you
04:03would consider yourself an avid video game player.
04:08That's the interesting statistic, right? That this demographic, unsurprisingly, wouldn't necessarily self-identify as an avid video game player.
04:18Now, don't do this to please me. How many of you expect to play Grand Theft Auto VI?
04:25A subset of those who played V. You're making a huge mistake. You're going to miss out.
04:29All right. Fair enough.
04:30Okay. Well, for those of you who may not know, GTA V was a really big deal.
04:36This game generated more than $1 billion in worldwide sales in its first three days. And it's since sold around
04:45230 million units. I mean, so this is a big deal.
04:48But stress just for the people who don't play, what makes this game so special?
04:52Well, I mean, it's an amazing story because it's not only, you know, a huge hit, but it actually has
05:00been a leading title at least top five since it was released 13 years ago.
05:05And it's been a leading title in three console generations and on PC, of course. That never happens. So, you
05:11know, you may have a huge hit for one console generation, almost never more than one, but three is unheard
05:17of.
05:17So what's the secret sauce?
05:20It's really great. I mean, I wish I could say more about that, but the truth is that I've been
05:25in every entertainment business there is. You know, the story of making a hit is it just has to be
05:31spectacular.
05:32You know, the mission of Take-Two, and we share this mission with everyone, and I talk about it publicly
05:37and privately, the mission of our company is to make the best entertainment on Earth.
05:43And we take that mission really, really seriously. The mission is not, sorry to say in this group, it's not
05:47to have our stock price go up. It's not to create revenue. It's not to make cash flow.
05:52It is to make the best entertainment on Earth. And that was always my mission at every company I've ever
05:59run in the entertainment business. And thankfully, it's worked out 100% of the time with that focus.
06:05And that's what we try to do. And just to complete the thought, even though Ian didn't ask the question,
06:09what's the strategy to do that, to be the most creative, the most innovative, and the most efficient?
06:15We obviously fall short over and over again, but we actually try to do that, and we make hard decisions
06:21in service of that strategy.
06:23And then our culture is seek excellence in everything we do, work as a team, be kind.
06:31And you can assume, as I said, that we will miss it a little bit on every dimension.
06:38The mission, we're not always perfect. It's not always the best entertainment.
06:42The strategy will fall short, and even culturally, we'll get it wrong sometimes.
06:46But it's not for want of trying. I have 13,000 colleagues at Take-Two.
06:50100% of them can and will tell you exactly what I just said.
06:55Okay. So Strauss, you once said that even a franchise as recognizable as Grand Theft Auto needs marketing support.
07:02And with GTA 6, you did something new. You gave Netflix a six-hour exclusive debut look at the game
07:08before releasing it on YouTube.
07:10So I'm curious, why did you choose to go this route, and is this something we can expect to see
07:15with other Take-Two games going forward?
07:16All right. So I just want to address the pronoun. I didn't choose this, so Rockstar Games is marketing the
07:23title.
07:23They get all the credit for marketing the title. This is not a me sport. This is a team sport.
07:31But I think it was important for all of us that we show the world that this is something different.
07:38And it was also, you know, an extended, it was called a trailer, an extended look.
07:43Like, Rockstar didn't say this is a movie or a TV show, even though it was 27 minutes.
07:48They said, you know, it's a trailer. And nonetheless, it was viewed as though we're a movie.
07:53It was, you know, topping Netflix's charts for quite some time after it released.
07:57So I think it was an effort to sort of show as well as say, this is something special.
08:03You've never seen anything like this before.
08:05Got it. It is special. And my next question for you is, speaking of Netflix and movies and TV shows,
08:13like there's so many games being adapted to TV and movie.
08:16And I know you do have a Bioshock game, sorry, movie version of the game in development.
08:21But when you look at some of your competitors, they have these other events.
08:24Like BlizzCon has this, you know, Blizzard has BlizzCon, this big event.
08:27Nintendo has theme parks. Pokemon Co operates dedicated retail stores.
08:32So I'm curious, given your background, having worked in music and movies, why does Tay2Dot do more with its IP?
08:38Like are we going to see a theme park ever or a BlizzCon type event for one of your titles
08:44or your franchises?
08:45Look, we wouldn't rule anything out. We actually have had events.
08:50So Firaxis has had events. And Zynga, our mobile company, has had events for their VIPs.
08:57Generally speaking, those events are not profit making. They're marketing expenses.
09:02Or they're on a really, really, really good day, they're break even.
09:04And so we have to pay attention to where our resources go.
09:08And not just our financial resources, but our human resources.
09:11So anything we do has to be spectacular. So if we put on an event, it has to be spectacular.
09:16So that takes attention away from other things.
09:20And as a refresher, for those of you who weren't listening, our mission is to make the best entertainment on
09:27Earth.
09:27That's our mission. That's what we focus on.
09:30We're very selective about licensing our titles for other media for the same reason.
09:36If our mission is to make the best entertainment on Earth, we only want to make a movie if it's
09:40going to be the best entertainment on Earth.
09:41We made a Borderlands movie. We tried incredibly hard.
09:45We didn't lose any money on it because we had a financial partner.
09:48But I'm here to tell you it wasn't the best entertainment on Earth.
09:50We failed. We failed across our mission.
09:53So it's like I'm fond of saying, you know, culture like character is tested in the breach.
09:58When things are going well, it's convenient to say yes.
10:02But your test is when there's a challenge.
10:04And you either believe in your mission or you don't.
10:07So if we can be the best at something and deliver a phenomenal experience,
10:10we still have to make money while we're at it.
10:12Like we're not, this is, you know, this is not a nonprofit enterprise.
10:16Like I, you know, and by the way, we're not curing cancer.
10:19So I am charged by my shareholders to, you know, deliver a return.
10:25I just believe the best way to deliver a return is do the best work you can.
10:29Okay. So this year, many of your industry peers had significant layoffs,
10:33including Electronic Arts, Fortnite Maker, Epic Games, Microsoft's Xbox division.
10:39Yet Take-Two has avoided major layoffs.
10:41So I'm curious, what are you doing differently?
10:46You know, the problem with answering that is, like,
10:48as you finish patting yourself on the back, you're doing a major layoff.
10:52So, I mean, I, look, we have had to layoff people, sadly.
10:55It's the hardest thing I have to do.
10:58I think part of the reasons that we've avoided major layoffs is we run, you know, be the most efficient.
11:02We run a very efficient shop.
11:04We don't field access teams.
11:06We are very, very disciplined.
11:08But now and then we get things wrong and we actually do have to make those hard decisions.
11:12What do you think, though, is going on more broader with the industry?
11:14There are so many layoffs and studios closing.
11:17Why do you think that's happening?
11:20Well, some of that's not new.
11:22And I wouldn't say that's the current state of affairs.
11:24But I think what you're really referring to is in the pandemic, of course, we had some extraordinary unexpected growth.
11:31And everyone's suddenly making a lot more money than they expect.
11:33And so everyone's, like, in an expansive mindset.
11:36We were as well.
11:37So we in the industry started hiring.
11:39Then in mid-22, you know, the good news is the pandemic came to an end.
11:44The other news is our, you know, our boom that was pandemic-driven also ended.
11:48And things turned down in our business.
11:51It was the first time the mobile business turned down.
11:54And we had some challenges in our console and PC business as well.
11:58So that's when the changes really occurred.
12:00I think the bottom line is some people just got out over their skis and they had a retrench.
12:05I think we did that less so, but we were not immune to the same issues.
12:11So one of the most popular games right now is not from a traditional game publisher.
12:19The New York Times has turned games like Wordle, Connections, and Spelling Bee into a huge business.
12:24I'm curious, what does that say to you about the state of mobile gaming today?
12:27And do you wish Take-Two had bought Wordle?
12:29Oh, to the latter question, yes, of course.
12:32To the former question, I think it really just says the New York Times has done a great job
12:36in this space.
12:37I mean, they've done a phenomenal job.
12:40They, you know, just are reimagining that entire business.
12:43And there are a handful of companies that were in print publishing.
12:48That was their business.
12:49And they had, you know, factories, you know, the papers flying through.
12:53And they, the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, a couple of others, Hearst, have done
13:00a phenomenal job portfolio rebalancing.
13:02It is really hard to enter the interactive entertainment business from outside.
13:07Most people who try it fail.
13:08The New York Times tried it and succeeded.
13:10And even more impressively, they then added on to it successfully.
13:14So I just attribute it to really good management.
13:17So you've said many times that you don't play video games.
13:20Does that give you some sort of secret advantage from the CEO perch?
13:24God, no.
13:26No, of course not.
13:27It's just telling the truth.
13:29It would be more convenient to say, yes, I love them and I play them.
13:31But it wouldn't be truthful.
13:33Now, I've been, you know, in being in all these different entertainment businesses,
13:37it would defy belief if I were personally passionate about each one and also be a little silly.
13:43But also, it does give me an opportunity to remind people about what I don't do.
13:49You know, I was blessed that in every entertainment business I've ever been responsible for, my
13:56teams have enjoyed the highest hit ratio in the business.
13:59And generally, even though these were all turnarounds, we started either at bottom last place or second
14:04to last place.
14:05By the time I left the organization, we were the first or second place, depending on the structure of the
14:10industry.
14:11And in that, I had nothing to do with creating the product.
14:16Nothing.
14:17So how'd that happen?
14:19Either I am the luckiest person on earth, and I am pretty lucky, I feel pretty lucky,
14:23or I'm fortunate that I have some ability to choose the best talent in the business and convince
14:30them to do their best work within the system that I oversee.
14:35And I think that's more what actually happens.
14:38Okay.
14:38So I'm going to move on a little bit to a different topic, because I'm not sure if everybody
14:43here knows, but Strauss here is quite the exercise buff.
14:47He's also an author of many books on exercise-related topics.
14:51Well, Business Insider has covered me in this area.
14:53You are aware of that.
14:54I am aware.
14:56Yeah.
14:56They have a whole thing with me doing a workout and stuff.
15:00Yeah.
15:01I am aware.
15:01You are quite the workout buff.
15:03It was a long time ago.
15:04Things have gotten better since then.
15:06Well, longevity is such a hot topic now, but back in 2018, you wrote the book, Becoming Ageless,
15:12The Four Secrets to Looking and Feeling Younger Than Ever.
15:15So you are kind of ahead of the curve.
15:16Which is the condition precedent to people in the audience thinking, you know, you don't
15:20really look all that good.
15:21I mean, that is the natural takeaway from that.
15:23But anyway.
15:24I would disagree with that.
15:25As I published it, I thought, the one thing that can't happen is like, I die suddenly after
15:30that.
15:30Because it would just be so incredibly embarrassing to publish a book called Becoming Ageless
15:36and then die of a heart attack the next day.
15:39So I'm good so far.
15:40Well, fortunately that did not happen.
15:41But I was asking, what is your take on the latest longevity trends, like biological age
15:47testing or the kind of hyper-measured routines popularized by Brian Johnson?
15:51What do you make of that?
15:52So I like Brian a lot.
15:54He is a friend.
15:56Generally, I am not a huge subscriber.
15:58I do think that taking care of yourself in just the ways that everyone here knows are,
16:06generally speaking, highly correlated with a better health span, which is to say you live
16:11in a more healthy, comfortable way.
16:14There's almost no evidence that anything anyone is doing will actually increase your lifespan.
16:19And it's worse than that.
16:21You know, how many of us really want to increase our lifespan from like 96 to 101?
16:26I mean, last time, like that is not on my bucket list, thank you very much.
16:30If I could live exactly this way, you know, in perpetuity, it might be interesting.
16:34But that's not how it pencils out.
16:36So any good doctor, like Peter Atiyah, for example, was my doctor for four years.
16:42And Peter said, look, I can help you with health span.
16:44I really can't help you with lifespan.
16:45I was like, that's good.
16:46I'm fine with that.
16:47But what's really going to affect both your health span and your lifespan, this will not
16:52surprise anyone here.
16:53Number one, I'm not going to ask.
16:55Do not smoke.
16:56Smoking is the factor most highly correlated with a short, unhealthy, and frankly unhappy
17:02life.
17:03Don't smoke.
17:04Second thing is don't abuse alcohol and drugs.
17:06Those are the two factors most highly correlated with a bad old age or no old age.
17:13After that, it's just exactly what you would think, which is you should get some exercise.
17:18You don't have to do it.
17:19I exercise the way I do it because I love it.
17:20It's my passion.
17:21It's my hobby.
17:22But you really don't have to do that.
17:23If you walk 30 minutes a day, four or five days a week, just walk.
17:28You're like 80% of the way there.
17:30You want to get some more exercise than that?
17:32That's great.
17:32But you should move four or five days a week.
17:35You should eat a responsible diet.
17:37I don't eat an insanely healthy diet.
17:41I eat a lot of vegetables and salads and protein.
17:44I also like sweets, and I do eat carbs.
17:46So I try not to overdo it on stuff you shouldn't eat, and that's probably a good idea.
17:51You should try to sleep seven-plus hours a day if you can, unless you're a short sleeper.
17:57Is there anyone in this audience who's actually a short sleeper, like a real short sleeper?
18:00So a short sleeper, as you know, can only get, no matter how hard, they try roughly four hours a
18:07night.
18:07Is that true?
18:09Yeah.
18:09And it doesn't matter.
18:11It's just not going to happen.
18:12And you feel fine on four hours a day.
18:14Yeah.
18:15That is not the same as someone saying, I'm just going to power through, get four hours, and then drink
18:21a bunch of coffee.
18:22So I'm not a short sleeper, and if I get less than six hours, I'm really not very good.
18:26And if it's any sort of further motivation, if you're getting less than six hours a night, you're making bad
18:33decisions.
18:33Like, that's what the math says.
18:35You're going to make bad personal decisions and bad professional decisions.
18:39So you've got to sleep.
18:40Then you have to have some kind of emotional or spiritual life.
18:44You have to have people you love and who love you in your life, and preferably you have to have
18:49a community around you.
18:50That's how you're going to have a great health span.
18:52All the other stuff, like, peptides, like, A, no.
18:57Like, we have an FDA for a reason.
18:59Like, don't take something that is not double-blind tested and that a medical doctor actually has a degree, M
19:05.D., an M.D. degree.
19:07Like, not a David Sinclair degree.
19:09He is not actually a doctor.
19:11He's a doctor the way I'm a doctor.
19:12I went to law school.
19:13I have a jurist doctor.
19:15I don't address myself as doctor.
19:17Don't take my medical advice except double-blind studies prescribed by a doctor after being approved on label by the
19:26FDA.
19:26And you're going to be okay.
19:27So, but even if it worked, even if it worked, do the stuff I do.
19:31Forget the peptides.
19:32You'll be in a better place.
19:33Oh, and don't be grossly overweight.
19:35But in the world of GLP-1s, like, you have no reason to be.
19:40And I'm a huge advocate, by the way, in case you're interested.
19:43And, no, there is absolutely no shame in taking them whatsoever.
19:46If you're carrying extra weight, carrying extra weight, you take a GLP-1.
19:51I happen never to have struggled with my weight, ever.
19:53I'm blessed that way.
19:55So I have this workout group, and I've had people show up heavyset because we welcome everyone.
20:00So one guy shows up, and he comes over to me and says, I want you to talk to me
20:03about your diet because I want to lose weight.
20:05I said, how much do you want to lose?
20:06He said, I want to lose 50 pounds.
20:07I said, see, there's these things called GLP-1s.
20:10Go to my endocrinologist, I gave him the name, and get a prescription.
20:13He said, really?
20:14What about diet?
20:15I said, that is literally like saying to me, I have a migraine, and I would say to you, forget
20:20about Tylenol.
20:21Just meditate.
20:23You take prescribed medications to help you to live a healthier life, of course.
20:29Okay.
20:30Dr. Strauss.
20:31No, not a doctor.
20:32Just regular Strauss.
20:33I'm sending you to your doctor.
20:34I'm kidding.
20:35We can't ignore AI.
20:37Every company on the planet is trying to figure out an AI strategy right now.
20:41Now, you previously told me that AI was making Take-Two more productive, but you didn't necessarily
20:45expect it to make blockbuster games cheaper or faster to develop.
20:49Now, that was several months ago.
20:51Has your thinking evolved because AI is advancing like crazy?
20:55It is.
20:57I mean, it's all the same, which is our companies are built on technology, and what people called
21:05AI and machine learning have been part of our vocabulary since the beginning of time in
21:11the video game business.
21:12So, we're all in.
21:14I know consumers are saying, like, we don't want AI.
21:16What they mean is we don't want AI slop.
21:19We don't want bad looking stuff, obviously.
21:21Nor do we.
21:22So, we don't really parse what technology we're using, but we use computers.
21:27I have news for you.
21:29We use computers to make our games.
21:30I hope that's not a big surprise.
21:32So, whatever technology will allow us to make the best possible entertainment, we make.
21:38Now, the Rockstar team has made it very plain that Grand Theft Auto is handcrafted.
21:43And it is.
21:44It's bespoke, handcrafted art.
21:48That is true.
21:49And I think that will always be true for our company because to make Refresher the best
21:54entertainment on Earth, we also have to make great art.
21:57It can't just be like, oh, we think this is commercial.
22:00It has to be great art.
22:02And we will use technology in service of that.
22:04What I am here to tell you is whatever new AI model is developed, generally speaking,
22:12the description and the publicity has been around asset creation.
22:16And I just want to remind people that creating an asset efficiently or beautifully is still
22:21different than creating art.
22:23So, and if you confuse the two, it's sort of like saying, I have an iPad on which I can
22:29type and that is the same thing as writing the great American novel.
22:33They are just different things.
22:35So, I have zero doubt that technology can make us more effective, more efficient.
22:40Like, of course, I believe that.
22:42And of course, we are trying to innovate as much as we can going back to our three-part
22:46strategy.
22:47And at the same time, it's not going to make creating hits any easier.
22:51Oh, and incidentally, if it were, why would I object to that?
22:54Because we are already like in the business, have a balance sheet, like know how to market,
22:58know how to do the stuff that AI won't affect.
23:00Like, of course, if we could make hits more easily, we'd be at the front of the line of
23:03saying, we would like to do that.
23:05Oh, and by the way, because on balance, I'd rather my stock price goes up.
23:08I would just like start pounding the table.
23:10This new technology will make me be more effective at making hits.
23:14Our hit ratio will go up.
23:16That's sadly just not the case.
23:17It's going to be every bit as hard to make hits as it ever was.
23:20But it's going to be a whole lot easier to make assets.
23:23And that's something that investors got wrong earlier this year, correct?
23:26They get it wrong every day.
23:27I mean, a new model came out two days ago.
23:29Our stock went down 10 points as a result.
23:32But I don't, I mean, people, we don't spend a lot of time talking about it all.
23:37I guess I've obviously noticed.
23:39But, you know, you're not buying stock.
23:41You're not selling stock.
23:42You have a great balance sheet.
23:42You have virtually no debt.
23:44Who cares?
23:44Exactly.
23:45Okay.
23:46You're a seasoned CEO.
23:47What are the most important?
23:48That's another way of saying old, but okay.
23:50No, no, no, no.
23:52I'm just saying.
23:52Let's go back to that becoming ageless thing.
23:55Yeah.
23:55You're an ageless CEO.
23:58What are the most important leadership skills you've developed over your career?
24:01Like the kind of thing that you're, it's not taught in a classroom or a training program.
24:10So, unfortunately, like, it's sort of like asking someone to tell you how humble they are.
24:16It's a little bit of oxymoronic in terms of what I think my skills are.
24:23Look, I think any, any leadership comes in all flavors and you have to be your own kind
24:28of leader.
24:28And I don't think anyone should adopt my skills because you're not me.
24:32My particular approach is I believe that it's my job with the group to establish a mission,
24:38set a strategy, and promulgate a collective culture.
24:41You obviously have heard that.
24:43Then I believe in a formulaic, not discretionary compensation program that is totally aligned
24:48with the mission, the strategy, and the culture.
24:51Because if your words are here and the money is here, everyone's following the money.
24:55I personally believe that discretionary compensation programs are toxic, create politics, and
25:01get you the wrong results, especially over time.
25:03So, we're all formulaic.
25:05You perform, company performs, you get paid.
25:09You perform, company doesn't perform, you don't get paid.
25:12Company performs, you don't perform.
25:14If you still have your job, you get paid.
25:17It's, it's pretty straightforward.
25:18Oh, and by the way, I get paid the same way everyone else gets paid.
25:20We're all aligned.
25:23Then, so I believe strategy setting is once a year.
25:26Driving execution is daily.
25:28That is also my job.
25:29And then, I try to be, you probably wouldn't know from this conversation, but you sort of
25:35do know from knowing me.
25:37I try to be a highly empathetic listener.
25:40And I think that my people feel that I am.
25:44They all know me.
25:45They have my cell phone number.
25:47My door is open.
25:48I have no chief of staff.
25:51My attitude is if you're not president of the United States, you have no reason to have
25:54a chief of staff.
25:55There's no one in between me and the team.
25:57I'm on Slack.
25:58You can reach out to me 24-7.
26:00I will respond.
26:01And I won't jump in front of your active manager to make a decision.
26:07But I will pay attention.
26:09I will try to help you solve a problem.
26:10And worst case scenario, you will be heard and understood.
26:15And we will engage in a conversation.
26:19And then, you know, I don't know.
26:21I'm, I'm together with my team all the time.
26:24I travel all the world, around the world.
26:26I see them all.
26:27I'm, you know, we're blessed.
26:29We have 13,000 colleagues in Allen 80 locations-ish.
26:34I probably go to 40, 45 of them a year.
26:39And, and I tell the same story.
26:41All right.
26:42We're running out of time.
26:43Yeah, we have one minute and 20 seconds.
26:44Let me, I want to do a rapid, a couple of rapid fire ones.
26:47Back in 2017, you wrote that you should never wear sneakers to work.
26:51Still true?
26:52You should never wear sneakers to work.
26:54Sorry.
26:54Yes.
26:56And job interviews.
26:57Latte is with glass, with, sorry, with ice.
27:01Okay or not okay?
27:02Totally fine.
27:04RTO versus work from home.
27:05Oh.
27:08No, work in the office.
27:10The SEC may let companies report two earnings twice a year instead of four.
27:15How do you feel?
27:16Would you, would you do that?
27:17I think I still would, I would prefer quarterly earnings.
27:19I just think transparency is a good thing for a public company.
27:22I mean, your shareholders are your shareholders.
27:24They ought to know.
27:24The problem is that quarterly it's kind of hard to hide what's going on if it's bad.
27:30I think twice a year you might be able to.
27:33All right.
27:3330 seconds.
27:34You said you don't take victory laps before they're warranted.
27:36So how do you find...
27:37I never take victory laps, ever.
27:38Ever.
27:39Okay.
27:39So how do you define sex?
27:41Success.
27:43You are so at risk of me running out the clock now.
27:48How do I define sex?
27:50Actually, I don't know, but I have three children.
27:55Sorry, how do I define success?
27:56Okay.
27:56I hope my face isn't as red as my lipstick.
27:59Yes.
28:00Is a copy sold, revenue hours played, and is that different depending on the type of game?
28:06No, I mean, success at an entertainment company, you know, ultimately it would be your revenue-related.
28:13It's revenue and profits.
28:14I mean, I understand we're trying to make the best entertainment.
28:17We're also a commercial enterprise, and I will be judged for Grand Theft Auto 6 on the number
28:21of units we sell and the profits we make, of course, and I should be.
28:25Excellent.
28:26Well, thank you so much, Tracy.
28:27Really appreciate it.