- 7 weeks ago
This week on RealTrending, we are bringing you a crossover episode with the Power House podcast, featuring a conversation with Justin Bailey, the CEO of Realty Executives Associates. A fourth-generation real estate professional, Justin reflects on how his background in the nonprofit sector influenced his leadership philosophy and why fostering strong relationships remains at the heart of his approach as REA continues to grow.
Justin recounts his path to becoming CEO, detailing the hurdles of expanding from 50 to 1,000 agents and the systems required to ensure steady, sustainable growth. He also offers his perspective on Clear Cooperation, the MLS’s importance, and why he believes NAR is at a pivotal moment under its new CEO, Nykia Wright.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
How Justin’s nonprofit experience shaped his leadership in real estate
The keys to scaling a brokerage without losing culture or connection
The importance of building a strong core leadership team in large organizations
How self-awareness and personal identity influence leadership success
Why Justin is confident in NAR’s future under Nykia Wright
Related to this episode:
Nykia Wright looks to lead NAR into the future
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/nykia-wright-nar-leadership-commission-lawsuits/
Justin Bailey | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-bailey-5aa80585/
Realty Executives
https://www.realtyexecutives.com/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Justin recounts his path to becoming CEO, detailing the hurdles of expanding from 50 to 1,000 agents and the systems required to ensure steady, sustainable growth. He also offers his perspective on Clear Cooperation, the MLS’s importance, and why he believes NAR is at a pivotal moment under its new CEO, Nykia Wright.
Here’s a glimpse of what you’ll learn:
How Justin’s nonprofit experience shaped his leadership in real estate
The keys to scaling a brokerage without losing culture or connection
The importance of building a strong core leadership team in large organizations
How self-awareness and personal identity influence leadership success
Why Justin is confident in NAR’s future under Nykia Wright
Related to this episode:
Nykia Wright looks to lead NAR into the future
https://www.housingwire.com/articles/nykia-wright-nar-leadership-commission-lawsuits/
Justin Bailey | LinkedIn
https://www.linkedin.com/in/justin-bailey-5aa80585/
Realty Executives
https://www.realtyexecutives.com/
HousingWire | YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXDD_3y3LvU60vac7eki-6Q
The RealTrending podcast features conversations with the brightest minds in real estate. Every Monday, brokerage leaders, top agents, team leaders, and industry experts join us to share their secrets to success, trends, and the lessons they’ve learned. Hosted by Tracey Velt and produced by the HousingWire Content Studio.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00So what does it take to scale a brokerage while preserving culture and connection?
00:05We are doing a crossover episode of Real Trending, and we're featuring Justin Bailey, the CEO
00:12of Realty Executives Associate, who previously sat down with Diego Sanchez on Powerhouse.
00:17So enjoy the podcast.
00:19Welcome to Powerhouse, where we interview the biggest names in housing and ask them
00:24about their strategy for growth.
00:26I'm Diego Sanchez, president of HousingWire.
00:30My guest today is Justin Bailey, CEO of Realty Executives Associates.
00:35Justin, it's so great to have you on the show.
00:38Hi, Diego.
00:39Thanks.
00:39I'm glad to be here.
00:40Thank you for asking me to participate.
00:43Yeah, this should be a really good conversation.
00:45For those in my audience that are less aware, could you tell us more about Realty Executives
00:51Associates?
00:53Absolutely.
00:53Yeah, Realty Executives Associates, it was founded in 1977 in our market by a guy named
01:00Vance Berkey.
01:02He actually was on an airplane and saw an advertisement in a magazine for Realty Executives.
01:08They're based out of Phoenix.
01:10And so he had an independent firm at the time.
01:15There were four people in his office, and one of those was actually his wife.
01:21So he passed last November, which is really sad.
01:25He's a great man.
01:26But the way he tells the story is he set his agents down and said, we're going to, you know,
01:32I'm going to take this independent.
01:33I'm going to, you know, make it real to executives.
01:35He said, and all four of them left the room, including my wife.
01:39So he started with one person.
01:44And it's kind of a neat story, though.
01:47Three years later, so in 1980, Realty Executives in our market, we're in East Tennessee, became
01:53number one in agent count transaction size and volume in just three short years.
02:00So I've been in this role for five years as the CEO, and so my job is just to not screw
02:06that up.
02:07It's a long, long run of being number one.
02:10Did you acquire the business directly from the founder, or have there been other leaders
02:16in between them and you?
02:18There have been other leaders.
02:20There's three owners at Realty Executives, and my predecessor was a guy named Steve Fogarty,
02:27who Vance sold it to them in, I want to say, maybe 2005, I think.
02:34And then in 2020, July of 2020, I took over a guy named Steve Fogarty.
02:41I took his spot.
02:44So before you became a realtor, you spent several years in the nonprofit sector.
02:52Did that sector give you any strategies for success in real estate?
02:57Yeah, that's a great question.
03:01You know, I probably don't think about it as often as I should, but I do think that it
03:05did help.
03:07I worked for a lot.
03:08My educational background, I actually went to school to be a therapist and often say I
03:15ended up a CEO who needs a lot of therapy.
03:19And you probably provide a lot of therapy to your team as well, right?
03:24Probably so.
03:25Yeah, I've heard them say so before.
03:29So I worked for a nonprofit called Young Life for five years, mainly working with adolescent
03:38teenagers.
03:39And so there are some core values, kind of core principles, I suppose.
03:45Like one of the main ones through Young Life is that you have to earn the right to be heard.
03:50And you do that through getting to know somebody, being relational and showing up in their lives.
03:57And so I think that is a big one that I've not only in real estate, but even in my role now, I feel it's important to get to know someone just because you're the leader doesn't mean that they automatically will trust you or follow you.
04:13And so I think my avenue for doing that, which I learned through, yeah, my work in the nonprofit world was spend a lot more time going to funerals and weddings and hospitals when babies are born than I do, you know, speaking at conferences or anything like that.
04:31And so I feel like earning that right is kind of part of my job.
04:37And then, you know, another one, I think something I learned through my time there was that I think kids are automatically drawn to the oldest person in the room that will take them seriously.
04:52And I think adults are not all that different.
04:55You know, I think it might be a different word.
04:57Maybe it's we're drawn to the most important person in the room that will pay attention to us.
05:05And so I feel like not that I'm trying to say I'm important, I suppose maybe it might be perceived that way with the role I have.
05:12But I've thought about that a lot of just trying to show up and pay attention to people and ask them how their marriages are and how their lives are.
05:22If they're hanging out with their kids enough, if they're spending personal time, if they're working on their hobbies, you know.
05:29So, yeah, I think those are some things that I've probably picked up in my time.
05:32Yeah.
05:33I mean, it sounds like you learned about empathy and listening, like authentic listening.
05:41Yeah, I think that's probably right.
05:42Which is great.
05:43I love that answer.
05:45So you're a fourth generation realtor, which is wild.
05:49So is it just in the blood for you?
05:54Oh, man, I actually got into it kicking and screaming.
06:00My great-grandfather, my great-grandmother, my grandfather and both of my parents were and are all realtors.
06:08My parents are still in real estate.
06:10And so my brother and sister tried it.
06:15I kind of went more the, again, I went to school to be a therapist.
06:19And I think some of that was because real estate made my family crazy.
06:23But when I was working in the nonprofit space, we kind of saw the crash coming.
06:32And so the first thing, one of the first things people stop doing when a market turns is financially donating to the nonprofit sector, unfortunately.
06:42One of the things, not always, but it's often the case.
06:44So we actually had quite a few layoffs of kind of our, I was on the, I was bottom of the totem pole.
06:51And so all of us were kind of told, hey, this is probably coming.
06:55You might want to find something else to do.
06:56And so I'd just gotten married.
06:58And, you know, the only other thing I knew how to do was real estate.
07:05And so, you know, my wife and I talked about it.
07:07I said, well, I'm going to just get my real estate license.
07:09My intention was to open a counseling practice.
07:13But that requires money, which I did not have much of.
07:15And so I said, why don't I get my real estate license?
07:18It'll give me some time.
07:19Um, um, and, you know, man, I just, I actually ended up really liking it.
07:25Um, probably about two years in my dad came to me and said, I work on a team with my mom and my dad.
07:33Um, my dad came to me and said, you know, I know this was kind of going to be a temporary thing for you.
07:39Um, and, and he really called me out.
07:42He said, but I think everyone can feel that.
07:44I'm afraid your clients can feel that.
07:46So you're doing a disservice to yourself and to them.
07:50So you either need to be all in, or you need to go do something else.
07:54And it was a good kick in the butt for me.
07:56Um, and I was like, you know what?
07:58You're right.
07:59Like, I didn't say that immediately at first.
08:01Disagree.
08:03It was your dad.
08:04So you have to, that's your time.
08:07But after a little bit of thought and time, you know, I thought I really should, I should be all in.
08:11Um, and once I was all in for lack of a better word.
08:16I just, you know, I just really ended up loving it, um, in different aspects, you know, found out that I liked the broker role really well.
08:24So kind of evolved into doing that for a while.
08:27Um, but yeah.
08:29So tell us about that journey from, uh, so you just told us the journey from sort of in and out, not fully in it.
08:38Uh, your dad gave you the kick in the butt and then you were fully in it.
08:42Tell us about that journey from being fully in it to, as a realtor, uh, to becoming the CEO of a pretty large brokerage.
08:51Um, yeah, um, so let's see, I got my license in 2008, was a realtor, uh, with realty executives, um, from, uh, and then we'll, we'll say 10, 2010 was when I got the kick in the pants to really buckle down.
09:09Um, um, and then, uh, was with realty executives.
09:14Um, we were in a smaller office of theirs out in, um, kind of over the rural area.
09:19Um, and 2016, um, when I kind of found my stride, I had, um, at that point was a team leader.
09:29I just got my, my managing broker's license, um, and, and kind of had found, um, I had a mentor of mine.
09:37I said, you know, really in this dilemma where I love working with clients, but I feel like I'm a little more drawn to like helping agents answering those questions.
09:48I like teaching.
09:50Um, and he asked me, he said, well, which phone calls do you like the most?
09:54And immediately I was like, when an agent calls me and they have a problem, that's my favorite phone call.
09:59He was like, well, I try to work a job out where you actually enjoyed the phone calls that you got.
10:04And so, um, that would have been 2016.
10:08Uh, so Steve Fogarty, who was my predecessor, um, I didn't want to, I didn't want to just leave, but I had decided I wanted to open up my own independent firm.
10:17Um, my great grandmother had had an independent.
10:20My grandfather did.
10:21My parents did for a while before they came to realty executives.
10:24And I think part of it was probably just wanting to prove to myself I could, or see if I had what it took to do it.
10:31Um, so I took Steve to lunch.
10:34Um, again, I didn't want to just make a phone call and said, Hey, I've, um, and this is, keep in mind, this guy's like a mentor of mine for several years.
10:42Um, he's a legend in the industry and in our market, especially.
10:46And so I said, Steve, I've decided I'm going to leave REA and go open my own independent firm.
10:52And I was bracing for impact.
10:54Um, and man, he was so excited for me.
11:01Like he immediately was like, what are you going to call it?
11:04And I was like, uh, Bailey and company, you know, and he started asking me all these questions about where's your office going to be?
11:10And what color is your logo going to be?
11:12And it's almost like I forgot he was supposed to be mad at me.
11:15Um, and you know, I left feeling empowered and he said, I know you're going to do a great job.
11:22If I can ever help you, let me know.
11:24Um, and so I opened up an independent.
11:27I did that for, uh, five years.
11:29We had about 50 agents in two locations.
11:32And so this would have been 2020.
11:34So Steve, uh, and we, we had kept in contact.
11:37He had stayed true to his word.
11:38He, he was who I would call if I had a question.
11:40Um, he asked me to go to lunch, uh, same restaurant and he had reserved the same table, which was pretty cool.
11:49Uh, and he said, I want to slow down.
11:51I want to be a grandfather and, um, want to know if you would consider coming back to realty executives, um, and take my job.
11:59And it was the last, uh, it was just the last thing I thought was coming.
12:04And so, um, you know, I actually told him no.
12:09And then, uh, I, I forgot to ask my wife and wife about it.
12:14And so I got home and I told her about it.
12:16What'd you say?
12:17I was like, well, I said, no.
12:18I was like, did you want to like call me or like, maybe we should have talked about that.
12:22I say that in jest, but, uh, it was more, um, reason.
12:26The reason I said no is because, uh, the firm was called Bailey and company and it just started it when my daughter was born.
12:32And it had just kind of with your, when your name's attached to it, it's just, I think it's even more just a fabric of your life.
12:39Um, but after, you know, Chris and I talked and again, I talked to my, my, you know, parents and, um, a couple of mentors of mine and, you know, everyone kept saying to me, um, you've always talked about how you wanted to, um, have an impact on the industry and where you told people and taught people a different way to do real estate.
13:00Um, and it just seems like this would give you a bigger opportunity to do that.
13:05And so, uh, yeah, so we ended up, um, calling Steve back.
13:09I remember when I told, when we told our kids that we were, so realty executives acquired Bailey and company, uh, in order to kind of just to make the transition make sense.
13:18Uh, when we told our kids, uh, my daughter said, cause again, it was our last name.
13:23My daughter's first response was, uh, does that mean we're going to have to change our last name?
13:28Uh, no, buddy, you're not going to be a little bit of realty executives.
13:33Um, but that kind of gives you some context, right?
13:36For it was a pretty tough decision.
13:38Um, but I'm, I'm really glad that I did.
13:41And I will say it was super scary because I made the decision to do that in January of 2020.
13:47Um, and my official start date, there was so much kind of legal, like paperwork and stuff we had to go through was supposed to be July 1st.
13:55And as you know, like COVID happened right in the middle of all that.
13:58Uh, and I, I was terrified.
14:00I was acquiring Steve's percentage in the company and taking on debt.
14:05And I was, I was so nervous.
14:08Um, obviously it ended up, you know, real estate exploded instead of dissolving, but I'd convinced myself this was like the biggest mistake ever.
14:18Um, thankfully that's not how it worked out.
14:20But yeah, it seems like it worked out really well.
14:22So you went from running a brokerage with about 50 agents to running one that I believe has over a thousand.
14:34Um, I don't know if they, if, if it did at the time, but it's significantly bigger, um, you know, you know, 15 to 20 X in, in size, in terms of agent count, uh, what, what were the learning experiences in those first six months of such a dramatic increase in size?
14:52And, in, in, in brokerages?
14:55That's a great question.
14:56Yeah, we had, uh, let's see, when I started July 1st of, um, of 2020, we had 582 agents.
15:05We have a thousand and 91 today.
15:08Um, but that jumped from 50 to 500 was, uh, I don't know.
15:14Maybe there's a book I could have read if, if it's out there, I haven't found it yet.
15:18Um, I learned a lot and honestly, I learned a lot the hard way.
15:22Um, you know, when you have 50 agents, you can know, you can really know them.
15:29Uh, I mean, I, you know, they were, who came to my birthday parties and I went to theirs and, uh, I knew their kids' names, like all of their kids' names.
15:38I knew how their marriages were.
15:40I knew their parents and grandparents.
15:43It was, it was like a family and you can do that when there's 50, you can't do that when there's 500.
15:49Uh, and so, I mean, honestly, that first year, I mean, I, I about killed myself trying to do what I was doing there here.
16:01Um, it was hard on my marriage.
16:03Um, it was, I wasn't the dad I wanted to be.
16:06Um, and, and really it's because I was, I was just trying to do the impossible, which was to do what you can do for a small group to a really large group.
16:14Um, and so some of that was realizing, uh, you know, I don't have a business background.
16:20I ended up going back to grad school after this, cause I was like, I need to learn something about business.
16:26Um, but, uh, but yeah, you know, realizing like we didn't have a real organizational chart.
16:33We had a little over 50 full-time staff and everyone just reported to me.
16:38Uh, and that was just kind of how Steve had, had done it and probably his season of life that worked really well.
16:43But just implementing things like having directors and managers and, you know, really creating just a small core team that immediately reported to me, uh, who I could invest in and know well.
16:55Um, but man, that, that took some time and, um, asking a lot of smart people, good questions.
17:03And, uh, that was probably the hardest part.
17:06So it sounds like one of the things is you, you know, you really created some infrastructure in the organization, a reporting structure.
17:13Are there things that you had to let go of, uh, in order to be a better leader?
17:21Yeah.
17:21Um, kind of going with what I had talked about.
17:25One of the things that I had to let go of was that I, um, I consider myself pretty relational.
17:31And so this notion that you can be relational with that many people was one thing that I had to really let go of.
17:38And that was really hard for me.
17:40Um, if, if I'm honest.
17:43You know, I never feel like, um, I'm far from the smartest person in the room.
17:49Uh, and so it felt like being relational with people was like the only bullet I had.
17:55And so taking that away, um, yeah, I mean, to be super transparent was like, I don't, I don't know that I'm good at much else.
18:04Uh, and so that was really difficult for me.
18:06Uh, I mean, I mean, in fact, like talking with, you know, Steve stayed around, he kind of took a step back to being a broker of one of our offices.
18:14And so I remember like talking to him and saying, like, I don't know, I don't know that you took the right guy.
18:18Um, and, um, yeah, I don't know if that answers exactly your question, but that was the biggest thing.
18:25It, it definitely does.
18:26Um, and I would imagine that you, uh, you, you enjoyed the relational side and probably still keep some of it.
18:33Um, and so how did you, how did you, um, sort of move on from, from losing something that probably was pretty important to you in terms of trying to build those relationships with everyone on your team?
18:48Well, I got really good, um, or I have gotten much better.
18:53I should say, uh, realizing that, um, I can't make everybody happy.
18:56I'm going to let people down, not going to be able to know everyone.
19:00Um, um, but I can take kind of this core group.
19:05So like our brokers and our directors, which is about, it's about nine people.
19:10Um, I can invest in them and really kind of say like, here's how I would like for you to invest in others.
19:18Um, and then that just breaks down right to managers and office staff agents.
19:22And so, um, I think instead of trying to, um, like duplicate myself, it was more, here's a way that you can be with people to where I think they feel like they have a sense of belonging.
19:38That's something we talk about a lot at realty executives.
19:40It's very important to me that our agents feel like they belong.
19:44I think that's why I'll even pass the money.
19:46I think that's really why a lot of agents leave firms.
19:50Um, and so, but also I wanted them to do that organically as themselves.
19:54And so what that required was me getting to know them in a way to say, Hey, I think, I think this is how being relational as we keep talking about would, would make sense for you.
20:04And so, um, it was really important to me that I wasn't just trying to clone myself in the people that are around me.
20:11Yeah, that makes a ton of sense.
20:13So you wrote a great article last year for Housing Wire that had a line, trying to be someone you're not is exhausting.
20:24What, what do you mean by that line?
20:27Oh, um, that, that was kind of a, an article I wrote that, um, it really came from a class that I started teaching at realty executives and I've taught it a couple other places called identity and leadership.
20:40And it really is just me kind of pulling back the veil on my own leadership journey.
20:45Um, which was, you know, I would see these dynamic, uh, leaders in real estate, right?
20:52I'd, you know, watch them do a training or I'd see them at an event.
20:56And, um, I think out of my own insecurity, what I realized I was trying to do is I was trying to be someone I'm not.
21:03I was trying to be, you know, um, I don't know, maybe the word's cooler than I am, I suppose.
21:12Um, but I, I remember, um, we did a, I did a survey not long after I was here.
21:18I was here for about a year probably.
21:20And so asking a series of questions to our agents, um, really trying to gauge gauge like, where are we dropping the ball?
21:27Uh, it was really important to me to try to figure out like, what, what are some expectations that we're not hitting?
21:31Are those even valid expectations?
21:33And so anyway, there was a series of questions.
21:34One, one of those, when I started, I was the CEO, but also was the broker of one of our offices.
21:40Uh, it was important to me to kind of have that aspect of what it looked like to be here.
21:45Um, and so, uh, I think one of the questions was like, you know, how, how's your experience with your managing broker?
21:52And, and one of the agents in that office, I don't know who it was because it was anonymous, but they said, uh, Justin's not a real leader.
22:00He's a cheerleader.
22:03Um, and I mean, we, I think we got 300 responses from that survey and they were all amazing except this one.
22:10And I couldn't let it go.
22:12I mean, it was the only thing I paid attention to, uh, and it, it first, it really stung.
22:19I mean, it's a tough thing to hear.
22:20Um, but I, I, I, I, I'm in count.
22:25Not only do I believe in counseling, I go myself, but, um, I remember talking to, um, my counselor at the time, his name was Kevin.
22:34And, you know, his response was so great to that.
22:37He said, um, so you don't want to be a cheerleader.
22:41And I was like, no, I mean, that's like, who wants to be a cheerleader?
22:46And he was like, so you don't want to be someone who like sits on the sidelines and cheers for people when they win.
22:52And I was like, no, I do want to do that.
22:56And I think another one, he said, so you don't want to be somebody who, uh, whose kind of main focus is to celebrate the success of others instead of themselves.
23:04And I was like, no, I do want to do that.
23:06And he just started describing a cheerleader.
23:08And then he, you know, in his kind of perfect way, he was like, well, it sounds to me like you're a cheerleader.
23:13And, you know, that was a pretty big moment for me.
23:16And there were several other ones.
23:17And, um, yeah, that, that was kind of part of, part of the idea of realizing like, okay, I think that was something Kevin said to me was, um, you know, part of being a leader is, is not only acknowledging who you are, but some, some of that is acknowledging who you're not.
23:33Right.
23:34And so we just spent some time over the next couple of months, uh, really, golly, maybe a year.
23:40Uh, and that was the main focus of our conversation was him kind of helping me be really honest about who I'm not.
23:47Um, you know, I've always been drawn to like, uh, in the, the main guy in the movie.
23:53Right.
23:53Like I remember watching Ollie, uh, with my family and, uh, you know, Muhammad Ali out is out there and he's like the man in the middle of the ring.
24:00And, um, I was trying to pay attention to myself.
24:03I was like, there's something going on as I'm watching this movie.
24:06And what I realized was like, I'm, I'm not a boxer, like, I think it would be amazing to be that kind of guy in the ring, but I'm a really good corner man.
24:16That's like, when I'm at my best, um, celebrating other people.
24:20And when I'm at my worst, I'm trying to get other people to celebrate me.
24:25Um, and yeah, I could go on and on, but the majority that I recall was just kind of about my, my leadership journey and trying to be honest about who I am and who I'm not.
24:34Um, yeah, it's interesting that you say that, uh, you, you, you could be a really great corner man.
24:40And earlier in the conversation, you talked about, well, the calls that I love to receive are where I can help agents solve problems.
24:49Um, so, you know, that's what a corner man does as well.
24:52It's not, not just celebrating and cheerleading, but like, I got to solve some problems with, with this boxer.
24:58Um, so it's really, it's really interesting.
25:00Um, so great observation.
25:03Thanks for saying that.
25:04Yeah.
25:04Um, so, uh, there's a, a big debate in, in real estate right now about private listings and you've got compass and, and maybe a few other brokerages on one side and Zillow plus several large brokerages on the other.
25:25Have you thought about this debate?
25:27Where do you, where do you fall in this, in this debate between, uh, you know, private listings and, and putting everything on the MLS?
25:36You know, we don't have compass in our market.
25:39Um, and so it isn't one that I've been forced to, to need to pay attention to just because I don't see it as something that really directly affects my agents as of today.
25:50Um, and I've followed it from a distance, uh, you know, but I, I think there's a difference in, in sometimes national conversations aren't the same as neighborhood conversations, right?
26:02And in our neighborhood conversations, meaning just here in Knoxville and East Tennessee, uh, it just hasn't been something that's really been all that important when I, when I've kind of asked agents about it, they're like, yeah, I've kind of seen that.
26:13I don't really know much about it.
26:14Um, I mean, philosophically, uh, I'm a believer in clear cooperation.
26:19Um, I, I think the MLS has a really tough job.
26:23Um, I was the president of our, uh, local association last year.
26:27And so, you know, MLS has have really two customers in my personal opinion.
26:33It's the members, but it's also consumers, right?
26:35Cause part of the job is to protect consumers.
26:37Um, and so I've always just kind of been a believer in following the rules that are put out there and I don't mind to challenge them if I feel like they're punitive to my agents, but I really haven't found CCP in my personal opinion to be punitive.
26:56Uh, I, the idea of seller choice, um, I think everyone should have choice, but in, at least in our MLS, they already do, we have what you can do.
27:07It's just called an open listing agreement.
27:08You can do an office exclusive listing agreement, which really gives them kind of the same thing.
27:14Um, and so, yeah, I don't really particularly believe, I guess, in the notion that sellers don't have choice again, at least in our market.
27:22And that's a hard thing to do on a national level, because I don't know what the rules are in Sheboygan.
27:28So maybe they are more punitive to sellers.
27:30Yeah, super important to distinguish between the conversations that are happening on a national level and those that are happening in a region or in a city, uh, or even in a neighborhood, as you mentioned.
27:42Um, so, but another national question, and we'll probably wrap with, with, uh, with this one, um, because you're pretty active in, in the National Association of Realtors.
27:54You have been over the course of your career, and that organization has had some pretty well-documented struggles, uh, particularly over the past few years.
28:04Do you think Nakia Wright, uh, who's the, the new CEO there, do you think she's leading a comeback this year?
28:10I really do, I, I really like Nakia, um, I, I can't say that I know her super well, personally.
28:18I, I was on the board of directors for NAR, uh, for two years.
28:22I rolled off last year, so I'm not currently, um, but I did get to, to be there as she kind of stepped in at the helm.
28:29Um, now when I say it was a director, keep in mind, there's like 900 of them, so you're not really all that involved.
28:34Um, but I, I have been very impressed with her.
28:38I, I, I saw her speak at a, at an event, um, and I was impressed with the, the moderator kind of tried to corner her on, on something.
28:49And, you know, she's so good at being like, respectfully, I'm going to reverse your question.
28:54Uh, and she just changed the whole narrative of the conversation.
28:58Uh, she seems to be both bold and humble.
29:02And those are two things I, I personally find very attractive in a leader.
29:08Um, I appreciate that she's trying to change the organization in terms of, um, cutting some of the fat that I think was probably there.
29:17Um, and I don't, you know, I think all organizations are going to go through this at some point, right?
29:23Like at some point, every organization is going to miss the ball and somebody is going to have to come in to see an outsider's perspective.
29:31And that's why I liked that.
29:32She was an outsider.
29:33I, you know, I think it would have been a mistake to pick someone who just came in that didn't know another way.
29:41And I've liked that.
29:42She's done.
29:43I think her hiring Sherry Chris was genius.
29:45Yeah.
29:46Um, I mean, I don't know how many of us, us there are in terms of, I think we're the 34th largest brokerage in the country.
29:54But I mean, there's a lot of people way bigger than we are.
29:56And she'll call myself.
29:58I didn't know how she got my cell phone.
29:59I didn't even know her before.
30:00She literally called me one day.
30:02It was like, Hey, this is Sherry Chris with NER.
30:04I mean, who she was, uh, just checking in on you, seeing how you're doing.
30:08Um, I think stuff like that just, it's going to go a long way.
30:12Yeah.
30:12They're a pretty dynamic duo.
30:15I have also been very impressed.
30:17I saw Nakia at a thousand watt event and then she was at our recent event, the gathering and her transparency and ability to light up the stage.
30:27Like she literally got a standing ovation at the thousand watt event.
30:31Uh, and no other speaker did.
30:33It was really impressive.
30:35Um, so that's pretty neat.
30:37So you, you mentioned, uh, being one of 900, uh, board members.
30:42Is that a, is that a move that they can make that would maybe clean things up a little bit to, to, to shriek the size of that board a little bit?
30:49I think so.
30:50Um, you know, or, or, I don't know, give them different names or something.
30:54It just, what was hard for me is I don't, um, I'm a, I'm a believer in the need for NER.
31:03I really, I really am.
31:04Um, I mean, going all the way back to why they even existed, right?
31:07That you'd have competitors that would come together and kind of put their swords down, um, and agree to the set of practices that protect consumers.
31:15I mean, it's a noble endeavor.
31:17Um, but I, I have a hard time being a part of organizations, like being on a board.
31:23Like I hate being on a board where I don't actually have a job or make an impact or create value.
31:28Um, I just would rather go hang out with my kids.
31:32Um, and so that, that was what I found difficult as a, as a board member was.
31:36I didn't really see a way to add value.
31:41And so I think if they could figure out how to cut the size down, I mean, there's probably a smarter way and the key will probably figure that out, but some moves like that, I think would go a long way.
31:52Well, Justin, I have really enjoyed this conversation.
31:55I hope you have too.
31:57Thank you so much for joining me today.
31:59Yeah, Diego.
32:00Diego, I really enjoyed it.
32:01Thank you for having me.
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