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William Branham Historical Research
  • 5 hours ago
John and Jenny examine YWAM's University of Nations and the questions surrounding its unaccredited programs, student experience, school costs, teaching qualifications, and the pathway from Discipleship Training School into further education. Jenny describes how the system was presented during her years in YWAM, including the culture of continuing into additional schools, staffing programs, and pursuing University of Nations degrees.

They also discuss accreditation, academic freedom, the Seven Mountains or Seven Spheres framework, the qualifications of instructors, and what happens when students later pursue education or employment outside YWAM. Jenny reflects on both the community experiences she valued and the limitations she believes students should understand before investing years and significant amounts of money in the system. :chatgpt-content-reference{index="1"}

CHAPTERS
00:00 Introduction
02:19 The Hidden Costs of YWAM's Unaccredited University
08:25 Do Students and Parents Understand Accreditation?
13:25 Inside the University of the Nations
18:08 The Seven Mountains Mandate and Education
23:13 When God's Calling Leads to More Schools
29:28 Degrees, Career Paths, and Accreditation
34:26 Is the University Funding the Mission?
39:38 Teacher Qualifications and Academic Freedom
45:15 Advanced Degrees and Their Real-World Value
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Learning
Transcript
00:31Hello, and welcome to another episode of the William Branham Historical Research Podcast.
00:35I'm your host, John Collins, the author and founder of William Branham Historical Research
00:40at william-branham.org.
00:42And with me, I have my co-host, researcher, counselor, and friend, Jenny McGrath, former
00:46member of YWAM.
00:48Jenny, I'm so glad you're back to talk about this subject that I've really, really been
00:53wanting to dig deeper into, and that is Cracker Jacks.
00:57And for those of you who don't know what this is, this is this candy that comes in this
01:01little box that's, it's great candy.
01:03It's popcorn and caramel and peanuts and a prize of some sort.
01:08And I'm going back in the deep recesses of my memory.
01:11They used to give you these prizes, and some of them were kind of cool, but one of them
01:15was something that said diploma on it one time.
01:19And I remember as a kid, and I'm certain it was Cracker Jack.
01:22One of you may correct me, and it may have been some other candy, but I remember looking
01:26at this thing thinking, I don't want that.
01:27And I threw it behind me because it was worthless.
01:31And fast forward to today, I'm getting reports from not just you, but many different other
01:37people that they are, were parts of unaccredited universities for their charismatic movement.
01:44I had no idea what this was.
01:45I didn't even know this was a thing.
01:47But apparently, in the charismatic movement, you can have all of these universities that
01:51are unaccredited.
01:53And when you go try to get a job, I don't know about Youth with a Mission, we'll talk
01:57about that.
01:58But the other ones that I have talked through, Jed and I talked through one, you try to go
02:02get a job, and they're like, well, what is this thing that you have that says diploma?
02:06And the reason I brought up Cracker Jacks, they both have about the same value in some of
02:10the organizations.
02:11So, with that, let's talk about Youth with a Mission, and I want to explore their unaccredited
02:17university.
02:19Absolutely.
02:19Yeah, I think it's such an important conversation.
02:23And even as you brought up the idea of talking about this, the first phrase that comes to
02:30mind, even though it's not a loan, is the idea of predatory loaning.
02:34Because it feels like it's like predatory recruiting, because young 17, 18, 19-year-olds
02:41who typically join YWAM and then go on the track through what's called the University
02:46of Nations, that's the unaccredited university of YWAM, we don't know the difference between
02:53accredited or non-accredited.
02:55We go, wow, I'm going to get a degree as a therapist, or I'm going to get a degree as
03:01fill-in-the-blank.
03:01There's so many, without recognizing that the only thing that that's usually going to
03:08set you up for is to be a professional Christian for the rest of your life.
03:12That if you wanted to branch out and do other types of work in that vocation, it's really,
03:21people often don't find out until they've sunk thousands and thousands or tens of thousands
03:25of dollars and years of their life into the institution.
03:29I'm curious, just simply, I mean, I'm curious about everything, because this fascinates me,
03:34but I'm curious about how it was presented to the people.
03:38Like, do the parents know that this is a non-accredited university before the children go to it?
03:43Did you believe it was a real university when you went?
03:46How do they pitch this thing to you?
03:48In my experience, it was sort of breadcrumbs.
03:54So, everyone that joins YWAM has to do a discipleship training school.
03:59And you kind of actually go in, at least I did, with this idea of,
04:03I'm going to do this five-month school, and I'm going to get what I need,
04:07and then I'm going to go be a missionary.
04:08And I did know, for me, YWAM was a compromise between my parents.
04:13My parents really did actually want me to go to university, they believe in education,
04:18and I believed that I was called to the mission field.
04:21And I really believed this missionary phrase that says,
04:25God doesn't call the qualified, He qualifies the called.
04:30And so, I thought, I don't need training, I don't need accreditation,
04:34God is giving me everything I need.
04:37But then, once you get towards the end of your discipleship training school,
04:42you start to hear from other people come in from different schools to go,
04:47you know, you really should do the School of Biblical Studies,
04:49so you have more of a sure footing.
04:51You really should do this School of Counseling.
04:54And it kind of becomes this little bit of breadcrumbs,
04:58where it's like, okay, I'll do that school, and then I'll be done.
05:00Okay, I'll do that school.
05:02At least that was my experience.
05:03I did multiple various different YWAM schools.
05:07I never thought I would get a degree.
05:10For me, that wasn't important, again, because I thought God was giving me everything I needed.
05:14But I did know various people who were going that route.
05:19And at the time, I don't know if this is still true,
05:23there were several seminaries in the United States and Canada
05:28that would accept some of YWAM's, like, credits.
05:33So, what a lot of people did was they'd start in the University of Nations,
05:37they'd do that for several years,
05:39and then for their last year or two,
05:41they would transfer to, I want to say, Crown University.
05:44I don't know if that's actually accurate.
05:46And I don't actually know if those colleges are accredited, to be honest.
05:51And so, but it became sort of this pipeline of you do YWAM,
05:55and then you can go get your kind of degree at these various schools.
06:01I don't want to overuse the analogy,
06:03but I am big into video games.
06:05I've played role-playing games, and we talked about gamification.
06:09Well, in the role-playing games, you start out your quest
06:12with a little training mission,
06:13and it's showing you and teaching you, preparing you for the quest.
06:17Well, you get deep into the quest, you get a new skill,
06:19well, you go through another training.
06:21And it sounds exactly like that.
06:24But in the game, I knew it was a game,
06:26I knew what I was playing,
06:27and I wanted to do it because I wanted to be better at the game,
06:30and unfortunately, you actually have to do it
06:32to go through the gaming system.
06:34But in the college-university aspect,
06:38I'm curious just the culture of it.
06:41Like, did they call themselves students when they were a part of this,
06:44or did they say,
06:45we're going to go get a training for a mission,
06:47and we have a side quest?
06:50Yeah, it was very much, I'm a student,
06:54I'm in a school from the University of the Nations.
06:59You know, I remember putting it on resumes,
07:03just thinking this is their thing that people are going to know
07:08or to take seriously in the real world, quote-unquote.
07:12But yeah, there is a real strong culture of you are a student.
07:19And we may even need to revisit this when Shelby's here,
07:23because I know this is a big part of her journey, too.
07:26It's like, well, I just sunk thousands of dollars into this.
07:29I need to get this degree.
07:31And there became this sense of urgency,
07:33which I think can be true for a lot of people.
07:37The other thing I would say, too,
07:39is the schools are very expensive.
07:42They're, you know,
07:43they're thousands of dollars for a few months,
07:46and many people struggle to come up with their school fees.
07:50And so, I would say it's also really common
07:53that people may not complete schools,
07:55or maybe they'll do one or two,
07:57and then they'll end up as being on staff
08:00and leading schools or staffing the base.
08:04But I don't know how many,
08:06I'd be curious the percentage of people
08:09that actually go through the schools.
08:11It almost feels like it can be this carrot-on-a-stick situation
08:15where people go for the schools,
08:17but then they end up in positions
08:20where they might be stuck on staff for years or decades.
08:24I'm trying to go back in my mind,
08:26ironically, to the same point in time
08:29whenever I did have the Cracker Jack boxes.
08:32As an 18-year-old young male,
08:35I was in a religion that really,
08:39maybe, I want to use the word belittled education,
08:42maybe not so much that.
08:44They frowned upon it.
08:45I'll say it like that,
08:46because that covers the wide spectrum.
08:48They frowned upon education,
08:49and so I didn't pay a lot of attention to it,
08:51or the verbiage.
08:53So, if I was 18 years old,
08:55and you told me that this school is accredited,
08:57and this other school isn't accredited,
08:59unless they actually spelled it out,
09:01I'm not certain that I would have known.
09:03I probably knew what that meant,
09:05but I didn't know the consequences of it,
09:07I think is what I would say.
09:09I'm picturing me entering into a college,
09:12maybe not YWAM,
09:13but just something, college or university,
09:15and there's usually an orientation process.
09:18In fact, I just went to a university with my son.
09:22He's getting ready to enroll into college.
09:24We went through this entire spiel,
09:26where they're talking about,
09:28here's what you get,
09:29here's the things that our university will do for you,
09:33the jobs that you can get,
09:34here's how you can better your life by being in it.
09:38What does the orientation look like?
09:40Did they tell the people,
09:42this is unaccredited,
09:43and this may not count towards your credit,
09:46towards an actual degree in a job,
09:48or did they just kind of let that sit off to the side,
09:52and not tell the parents or the children?
09:53In my experience,
09:55a lot of parents were not very involved.
09:58I think that was a big part of the culture of YWAM,
10:02was this idea that you are self-sufficient,
10:05you are called from God,
10:08your family doesn't get it,
10:09even though, in many cases,
10:12similar to mine,
10:13it's the parents that are funding you to be there.
10:17But, you know,
10:18I got taken to the airport in Colorado from my parents,
10:22and then I was picked up in the airport in Montana from YWAM.
10:26And so, I was already there.
10:28There wasn't a lot of orientation around what it was going to be.
10:34I do remember conversations happening about accreditation,
10:38but in my memory,
10:39it was people asking.
10:41It wasn't like something that was just so you know,
10:44it was people who maybe had spent some time in college,
10:47or maybe they were a little bit older,
10:49who were asking,
10:51what is the accreditation process?
10:52What is this going to get me?
10:54And at the time,
10:55I remember kind of scoffing and rolling my eyes,
10:57and like,
10:58you don't need that.
10:59I was also down on education.
11:02I'm thinking of this in terms of
11:04the Seven Mountains mandate,
11:07and kind of the mountain of education.
11:10And it almost feels like
11:13there's this terraforming of education
11:16that is its own subculture
11:18with the hope that eventually
11:21that will be all that matters,
11:23that quote-unquote secular education
11:25isn't going to have the value
11:27that this kingdom-minded education does.
11:31So, I think some of it is,
11:32feels like this bait and switch,
11:34but I think some of it is
11:37an overflow of the ideology
11:39of thinking that
11:40Christian nationalists
11:42should hold the dictates
11:45of what true education is
11:47and what is important for people to learn
11:49or unimportant for people to learn.
11:51I'm actually glad that you went there,
11:53because I did some digging
11:55before this podcast,
11:56and I was looking at just some of the history.
11:58It was founded,
11:59I think,
12:001978,
12:00if I remember correctly,
12:02Lauren Cunningham,
12:03and just trying to understand
12:07why he would have done it
12:08in the first place.
12:09So, you found this mission,
12:10and these people
12:12send their children,
12:13their young teenagers,
12:14young adults,
12:15into the mission,
12:16expecting that they're going
12:17to fulfill a mission.
12:19Well, suddenly,
12:20there springs up a university,
12:21and I'm trying to picture,
12:23from a parent's aspect,
12:25why the university?
12:27What do you need that for?
12:28Seven Mountains Mandate
12:29kind of explains it
12:30to some extent,
12:31because, yes,
12:32we're going to start
12:33conquering the mountain of education,
12:34let's create our own university,
12:36and let's ignore
12:37those other accredited universities.
12:39I kind of get that,
12:41but that was 1978.
12:42We're now 2026.
12:45You would think by this time,
12:47they would have gone through
12:48all of the hurdles
12:50that you have to go through
12:51to become accredited,
12:53and I'm wondering why they did not,
12:55but, you know,
12:57I still,
12:57because it's two separate entities,
12:59you're still left with the question,
13:00well, why do you even keep
13:01two separate entities?
13:02Why not just educate the children
13:04and the young teenagers
13:06in the mission itself?
13:07You could very easily have teachers
13:09in the, you know,
13:11in the mission field with them.
13:13Why would you need the university?
13:15So, I'm still,
13:17like, I'm still trying
13:17to wrap my head around it,
13:19but Seven Mountains Mandate
13:20actually does make it,
13:22make sense to some extent.
13:25And when you were there,
13:27did the,
13:28did it feel like
13:29two separate entities?
13:30Like, did you recognize
13:31Youth with a Mission
13:32as one entity
13:33and then the university
13:35as a second?
13:36I would say
13:36it was like a Venn diagram
13:38where there was,
13:39they were kind of
13:40each their own thing,
13:41but there was a lot
13:42of overlap.
13:43And so,
13:44when I went to South Africa,
13:46I did a school
13:47of biblical studies.
13:48It was a nine-month
13:50Bible school.
13:51And one of the trajectories
13:54I was thinking about
13:55was a University of Nations
13:57degree in biblical studies.
13:59And so,
14:00I knew that
14:01that school I did,
14:03although it was
14:04on a YWAM base,
14:05I mean,
14:06they're all on a YWAM base,
14:07but it was this idea
14:09of, like,
14:09we're YWAM,
14:11but also sort of superior.
14:13There's almost this feeling
14:15of, like,
14:15the people who are doing
14:17their discipleship
14:17training school
14:18are, like,
14:20freshmen,
14:20and then the people
14:21that are in their university.
14:23And there's a little bit
14:24of superiority
14:25in the sense of, like,
14:27oh,
14:28you don't get it yet,
14:29but once you do
14:30this next school,
14:31then you'll figure it out.
14:33But then that just
14:34keeps happening.
14:35It's like,
14:35once you do this school,
14:36then you should probably
14:37do this school,
14:37or then you should
14:38staff a school.
14:40And so,
14:40I think a big part
14:41of the why,
14:43I don't know about,
14:44like,
14:44not getting accredited,
14:45but I would just say
14:46a big part of the why
14:47of still running
14:48these schools
14:48is they bring in
14:49so much money.
14:51And I would wonder
14:52about if a school
14:53is accredited,
14:54I imagine it might
14:55have some regulation
14:56on paying staff
14:58and teachers,
14:59and none of the
15:01teachers
15:02for these schools
15:04get paid.
15:06And so,
15:07it ends up then
15:08just allowing
15:09YWAM
15:10and University of Nations
15:11to keep
15:12all of the fees
15:13that people are paying
15:14for these schools.
15:15Yeah,
15:16that would make sense.
15:17The regulations
15:18would be difficult
15:19for some universities
15:21to overcome
15:21as they're developing.
15:23But again,
15:23this was 1978.
15:24You would think
15:25that during all
15:26of this time
15:26that most of those
15:27challenges would be
15:28conquered.
15:29I'm also curious
15:30from a student's
15:31perspective,
15:32what did campus
15:34mean or feel like
15:35when you're in
15:35this type of system?
15:36Because you're going
15:37on your DTS
15:38and it feels like
15:39a college dorm,
15:41so to speak.
15:42It's not a college dorm,
15:43but it would feel
15:43like it.
15:44Well,
15:45what does it feel
15:45like in the university?
15:47Can you separate
15:47that in your mind
15:48or does it all
15:49kind of feel
15:50blended together?
15:51Yeah,
15:52it's all very
15:53blended together.
15:55And I think
15:57we're going to
15:58talk about this
15:58more.
15:59Someone requested
16:00this topic,
16:01which I think
16:01is so important
16:02to talk about.
16:04The quality of life
16:06on bases
16:06is usually
16:07very difficult
16:09and how intentional
16:11that is
16:12as a form
16:12of mind control
16:13and getting people
16:14into a place
16:15they're beaten down.
16:16So, I was in this
16:18School of Biblical Studies.
16:20It's one of the,
16:21like,
16:21more superior
16:22kind of thought
16:23of schools
16:24within the
16:24University of Nations.
16:25In nine months,
16:27you have to read
16:28the entire Bible
16:29five times.
16:31And so,
16:32I was
16:32reading the Bible
16:34and working
16:35on my,
16:36like,
16:37exegesis
16:37from the moment
16:39I woke up
16:40until about
16:412 or 3 a.m.,
16:42almost every
16:43single day.
16:44And I lived
16:45in a very small
16:46room with
16:47three other women.
16:48We shared
16:48two bunk beds
16:50and a bathroom.
16:52And this was
16:53how most people
16:54were on the base.
16:55There was
16:55three,
16:56four people
16:57to a room.
16:59I had
17:01a roommate
17:02who was going
17:02through a mental
17:03health crisis.
17:05And I was
17:0619 years old
17:07and they
17:08made me
17:08her primary
17:09caregiver
17:10responsible for
17:12her medications
17:13so that she
17:14would not
17:14take her own
17:15life.
17:16And so,
17:17I was going
17:18through immense
17:19stress of
17:20feeling responsible
17:21for her
17:22and for
17:23the violence
17:24that would
17:24come when I
17:25didn't give
17:25her her medication
17:26when she
17:27wanted it in
17:28times that she
17:28wasn't supposed
17:29to.
17:30But then they
17:31were also
17:31telling me
17:32and my
17:32roommates,
17:33don't tell
17:33anyone else
17:34on base
17:35about this
17:35because we
17:36don't want
17:36them to
17:36think poorly
17:37of her.
17:38And so,
17:40I was
17:41really,
17:42really struggling.
17:42My nervous
17:43system and
17:44my mind
17:45were just
17:46not in
17:47a good
17:47place.
17:48And I
17:49know that
17:50that's a
17:50more extreme
17:51example,
17:51but it's
17:52also not
17:52an anomaly.
17:53I think
17:54that there's
17:54a lot of
17:55experiences
17:56where it's
17:57like a
17:57college campus
17:58but filled
17:59with lots
18:00of structural
18:01and relational
18:04just things
18:05that feel
18:06really,
18:06really difficult.
18:07You mentioned
18:08the Seven
18:08Mountains
18:09Mandate.
18:09And I want
18:09to circle
18:10back to
18:10that because
18:11this is
18:11important and
18:12I have so
18:13many questions
18:13that may
18:14never be
18:15answered.
18:15We've
18:16talked about
18:16this,
18:17you and I
18:17have talked
18:18about it
18:18with Jed,
18:19some of the
18:19other co-hosts,
18:20the Seven
18:20Mountains
18:21Mandate.
18:21This is the
18:22agenda that
18:23we go to
18:24the seven
18:25spheres of
18:26societies,
18:26how Lauren
18:27Cunningham would
18:28have said it.
18:28And we as
18:29Christians need
18:30to take
18:31dominion over
18:32those spheres.
18:33And so
18:33the people are
18:34trained that
18:35you need to
18:36get into
18:36politics,
18:36you need to
18:37get into
18:37education,
18:39entertainment,
18:39all of these
18:40spheres.
18:41Interestingly,
18:42we're starting
18:42to see movies
18:43pushed by
18:44religious
18:45corporations
18:45that are
18:46tied to
18:46all of
18:46this.
18:47I actually
18:48watched one
18:48in the
18:48theater and
18:49it was
18:49okay.
18:50I'll say
18:50it like
18:51that.
18:51But the
18:53Seven
18:53Spheres
18:53of Society,
18:54Bill Bright's
18:55another person
18:55who started
18:56pushing this.
18:57So it's
18:57really hard to
18:57tell what
18:58is the
18:58actual
18:58origin.
18:59I'm
19:00curious,
19:01just within
19:02the
19:02university
19:03aspect,
19:04how much
19:05of the
19:06Seven
19:06Spheres,
19:07Seven
19:07Mountains,
19:08how much
19:08of that
19:08was actually
19:09taught as
19:09a training
19:10system within
19:11the university?
19:12Like,
19:13were they
19:13training people
19:14that you
19:14need to go
19:14out and
19:15conquer
19:15politics and
19:16conquer
19:16education,
19:17all of these
19:17things?
19:18Was that
19:18part of the
19:19university's
19:20agenda?
19:21Yeah,
19:22in my
19:23experience,
19:24it wasn't
19:24as explicit
19:26as that.
19:28There's
19:29really what
19:30I think is
19:30a very
19:31problematic
19:32language of
19:33God is
19:34going to
19:35quote-unquote
19:35have his
19:36way,
19:37and it's
19:37very,
19:38I think,
19:39misogynistic
19:40and violent
19:41rhetoric around
19:42this God
19:43who's going
19:44to do what
19:44he wants
19:45to do
19:45in society
19:47and countries
19:49and people's
19:50lives.
19:51And so,
19:53I don't,
19:53when I was
19:54in YWAM,
19:55I didn't
19:56know what
19:57the Seven
19:57Mountains was
19:58or what the
19:59Seven Spheres
19:59was.
20:00I've learned
20:00of that more
20:01since leaving.
20:03And there's
20:03this lore
20:04Lauren Cunningham
20:06talks about
20:06where supposedly
20:07and Bill
20:08Bright met
20:09in Colorado
20:11in 1975,
20:12and they both
20:13had this list
20:14from God
20:16of the
20:16different spheres
20:17of society
20:18that God
20:18wanted to
20:19influence,
20:21and they just
20:21so happened
20:22to be the
20:23same.
20:24And so,
20:25who knows,
20:26they had both
20:27kind of already
20:27been exposed
20:28to ideology
20:31around Dominionism
20:32before that
20:33for several
20:33years,
20:34but that's
20:35how the
20:35story goes.
20:37I don't
20:38remember,
20:39I'm curious
20:39to look
20:40if there
20:40are courses
20:41in the
20:42University of
20:43Nations
20:43around,
20:44like,
20:44politics.
20:45I know
20:46that definitely
20:46happens,
20:47like,
20:47through the
20:48fellowship
20:48and the
20:49family
20:49organization,
20:51which,
20:51you know,
20:52has its
20:53own
20:53connections
20:54to YWAM
20:55and to
20:56different
20:56bases,
20:58but there
20:59definitely
21:00was this
21:00idea of
21:02kingdom
21:03culture,
21:03and that
21:05God wants
21:06to be
21:06influencing
21:07different
21:08cultures
21:09through a
21:10kingdom-minded
21:11lens.
21:12And,
21:13you know,
21:13where I
21:14did my
21:15DTS in
21:16Montana,
21:16they had
21:17media schools
21:18and they
21:19had all
21:19of this
21:20high-tech
21:21camera gear
21:22and recording
21:22studios,
21:23and there
21:24was people
21:25that would
21:25come to
21:25South Africa
21:26that were
21:26part of a
21:27video school.
21:28And so,
21:29while it's
21:30maybe not
21:31as explicit,
21:32there's
21:32definitely,
21:33I would say,
21:34conditioning
21:35and training
21:36for all
21:37of the
21:38different
21:38spheres of
21:39society,
21:40if you
21:40will,
21:40and how
21:41people will
21:41use that
21:42to go
21:43into the
21:43film industry,
21:44to the
21:45entertainment
21:45industry,
21:46to the
21:46education.
21:48Healthcare is
21:49a big
21:50one.
21:51So,
21:52yeah,
21:52I think
21:52in my
21:53experience,
21:54it wasn't
21:54explicitly
21:55called that,
21:57but the
21:58influence of
21:59it was
21:59definitely
22:00there.
22:01So,
22:01we've talked
22:01about the
22:02seven spheres,
22:02we've talked
22:03about the
22:03university,
22:04we've talked
22:05about Cracker
22:05Jacks,
22:05we've talked
22:06about all
22:06kinds of
22:06fun things.
22:07Now I
22:08want to
22:08go into
22:09a little
22:10bit deeper
22:11into the
22:12student's
22:12mindset.
22:14For me,
22:14this is
22:15probably the
22:15biggest thing
22:16of this
22:16whole podcast.
22:17I begin
22:19this mission
22:19and I feel
22:20that I'm a
22:21Christian
22:21missionary,
22:22and like
22:23you said
22:23in some
22:23of your
22:24previous
22:24podcasts,
22:24you would
22:25have
22:25martyred
22:25yourself
22:26for the
22:26mission.
22:26It's
22:27all about
22:28the
22:28mission.
22:28And as
22:29we talked
22:30two podcasts
22:31ago,
22:32three podcasts
22:32ago,
22:33there was
22:33this
22:34gamification
22:35style
22:36achievement
22:37system
22:37that got
22:38you up
22:38to being
22:39very good
22:40at your
22:40mission.
22:41And now
22:42I find
22:42out that
22:43there's
22:43this whole
22:43side quest
22:44of going
22:45to a
22:45university
22:46that you
22:46might get
22:47into politics,
22:47you might get
22:48into education,
22:49you might get
22:50into these
22:50other things
22:50that aren't
22:51the mission.
22:52And I'm
22:53trying to wrap
22:54my head
22:54around that.
22:55What did
22:55you feel
22:56as a
22:57student
22:57when you're
22:58going head
22:59first down
23:00into the
23:00mission field
23:01and you're
23:02going into
23:02parts of
23:03countries that
23:03you didn't
23:04even know
23:04existed,
23:05and then
23:05suddenly
23:06there's
23:06a side
23:07quest,
23:07let's
23:07go conquer
23:09the mountain
23:09of politics.
23:10What went
23:11through your
23:11mind when
23:12you first
23:12learned this?
23:13It's so
23:13hard to
23:14put myself
23:15back in
23:16that space
23:17because my
23:17mind was
23:19really
23:19tormented.
23:21And it
23:21makes me
23:22think about
23:22conversations
23:23we've had
23:24about hearing
23:24the voice
23:25of God
23:25and how
23:26you know
23:27and how
23:27complicated
23:28that is
23:28in this
23:29world and
23:30in this
23:30system.
23:30I was
23:31in South
23:32Africa,
23:33I think.
23:34I can't
23:34remember.
23:35I remember
23:35I was on
23:36the floor
23:37because it
23:38was in
23:38a worship
23:38service and
23:39I was
23:39crying and
23:40I was
23:40emotional and
23:41all I wanted
23:42to do was
23:43get back to
23:43Uganda because
23:45I believed
23:46that's where I
23:47was called,
23:47that's where I
23:48wanted to be,
23:49that's what felt
23:50most like home.
23:51And then I
23:52felt like I
23:53heard the
23:54voice of God
23:54say,
23:56I want you
23:57to apply for
23:58this other
23:58school.
23:58And I
24:00was so
24:00devastated and
24:02I, you
24:02know, it was
24:03like how much
24:04of that was
24:04indoctrination and
24:06hearing people
24:06constantly being
24:07like this is
24:08what you should
24:08do next or
24:09like automatically
24:10finding the
24:12hardest choice
24:13and thinking
24:13that was then
24:15following God
24:16and that was
24:16what would be
24:17martyring God
24:18myself for
24:19God because
24:19that was the
24:21most difficult
24:21thing.
24:22And so, it
24:23was really hard
24:24because for me
24:24it did feel
24:25like I'm
24:27called to the
24:28mission field
24:29but God
24:30is going to
24:31test me
24:32and God
24:33is going to
24:33challenge me
24:34and God
24:34is going to
24:35keep preparing
24:36me for
24:37what God
24:38has for me
24:38on the
24:39mission field.
24:40And so, for
24:40me it was
24:41such a
24:42torment.
24:43Like, I
24:44didn't, I
24:44liked my
24:45schools but I
24:46also didn't
24:47want to be
24:47there.
24:47I felt like I
24:48was doing the
24:49most when I
24:50was in Uganda
24:51and when I
24:52was quote unquote
24:52on the
24:53mission field.
24:54It's so
24:55interesting.
24:56I began with
24:57the Cracker Jack
24:58analogy and
24:59now I'm
25:00still trying
25:01to wrap my
25:01head around
25:01everything that
25:02you said and
25:02I feel more
25:03like the
25:03family circus
25:04in Sunday
25:05comics.
25:06I don't know
25:06if you
25:06remember this
25:06Billy had
25:07these lines
25:07where he
25:08was going
25:08everywhere.
25:09So, you
25:10tell people
25:11that you're
25:11joining a
25:12mission, you
25:13have to go
25:13through a
25:13DTS.
25:14In fact, I
25:15believe if I
25:16read correctly
25:17to be part of
25:18the University
25:19of Nations
25:20you have to
25:20first do a
25:21DTS.
25:21So, to even
25:22get into this
25:23thing, you've
25:23got to be
25:24mission first
25:25and then
25:26you're not
25:27mission first.
25:27So, you
25:28begin there, you
25:29join up, you
25:30do your
25:31DTS, then
25:32suddenly you
25:33find that
25:34there's this
25:34other pathway
25:35that Billy
25:35went down
25:36where he's
25:36got to go
25:37to an
25:37additional
25:37school and
25:38get credits
25:38and, I
25:40don't know,
25:40a university
25:42degree.
25:42And then
25:43suddenly after
25:44you go through
25:44all of those
25:45things, you're
25:45on the
25:45side quest.
25:46Well, the
25:47achievement at
25:48the side quest
25:49is you can
25:50then become
25:50staff or
25:52leadership.
25:53And when
25:54I saw
25:54this, literally
25:55I thought
25:56family circus
25:56because you're
25:57just going
25:57through all
25:58why not
25:59train the
25:59missionaries
26:00by the
26:00people who
26:01are doing
26:01missionary work?
26:02Why do you
26:03need a college
26:03or university
26:04for this?
26:05So, I'm
26:05still trying to
26:06wrap my head
26:07around that.
26:08Is there any
26:08way to explain
26:09why they chose
26:10that route?
26:11And does that
26:11to you who
26:12went through
26:13this, does
26:13that even
26:14make sense
26:14to you?
26:15I mean,
26:15again, I
26:17can't prove
26:18this.
26:18I'm not saying
26:19this is anyone's
26:19intent, but I
26:20would just say
26:21like the
26:22schools are
26:22what often
26:23fund the
26:25mission.
26:25And so, I
26:26think that
26:27they're, from
26:28an organizational
26:29standpoint, it
26:31makes sense to
26:32have the
26:32schools because
26:33that's what
26:33keeps money
26:35flowing into
26:36the mission.
26:40And I
26:41think for
26:42people, like
26:43for me, I
26:43didn't want to
26:44go to Uganda
26:45without feeling
26:48like I knew
26:49what I was
26:49talking about
26:50when it came
26:50to the Bible.
26:51And so, for
26:52me, when I
26:52did this
26:53Bible school,
26:54I was like,
26:54oh, okay, well,
26:55now I get it
26:56more.
26:57And so, for
26:59some folks, they
27:00do like therapy,
27:02counseling, missionary
27:03counseling, and so
27:05there's this idea
27:06of this is the
27:07tools I'm
27:08supposed to
27:08get, but it
27:10also then I
27:11think is in
27:12this bubble as
27:13opposed to going
27:14to a public
27:16university or
27:17something else.
27:18like, well, I
27:19remember when
27:19I ended up
27:21leaving YWAM to
27:23actually go to
27:24graduate school
27:25in Seattle, and
27:26I was very
27:27fortunate.
27:28The graduate
27:28school I went
27:29to accepted me
27:30as a life
27:31experience equivalent
27:32to a bachelor's
27:33degree, so I
27:34didn't actually
27:35have to deal
27:36with that.
27:36But when I was
27:37going, I had
27:38multiple leaders
27:39in YWAM warning
27:40me, like, you're
27:41going to a very
27:42liberal school.
27:44Don't let them
27:45deceive you.
27:46Don't let them
27:46take you down
27:47the slippery
27:48slope.
27:49And so, there's
27:51really this fear
27:52of institutions
27:54and organizations
27:55and accreditation
27:57because those are
27:58outside of the
28:00kingdom of God.
28:01And so, I think
28:02a big part of it,
28:03and I was really
28:04worried to go to
28:05graduate school, and
28:06so I think a big
28:07part of what keeps
28:08people in is fear,
28:09whether that's the
28:11cost-sum fallacy
28:13of, like, well, I've
28:13already spent this
28:14much money, I should
28:15just finish it, or
28:17that's fear that
28:18they're going to
28:18get brainwashed by
28:21atheists if they
28:22go to a university
28:24outside of YWAM.
28:26Have you ever
28:27wondered how the
28:28Pentecostal movement
28:29started, or how the
28:30progression of
28:31modern Pentecostalism
28:32transitioned through
28:34the latter reign,
28:35charismatic, and
28:36other fringe
28:36movements into the
28:38new apostolic
28:38reformation?
28:39You can learn this
28:41and more on
28:42William Branham
28:42Historical Research's
28:43website,
28:44william-branham.org.
28:47On the books page of
28:48the website, you can
28:49find the compiled
28:50research of John
28:51Collins, Charles
28:52Paisley, Stephen
28:53Montgomery, John
28:55McKinnon, and others,
28:56with links to the
28:57paper, audio, and
28:59digital versions of
29:00each book.
29:01You can also find
29:02resources and
29:03documentation on
29:04various people and
29:05topics related to
29:06those movements.
29:07If you want to
29:08contribute to the
29:09cause, you can
29:10support the podcast
29:11by clicking the
29:12contribute button at
29:13the top.
29:14And as always, be
29:15sure to like and
29:16subscribe to the
29:17audio or video
29:18version that you're
29:19listening to or
29:20watching.
29:20On behalf of
29:21William Branham
29:22Historical Research,
29:23we want to thank
29:24you for your
29:24support.
29:25So back to that
29:27chart of Billy in
29:28my head, where he's
29:29going all the way
29:29through.
29:30Let's put this into
29:31perspective for people
29:32who aren't familiar
29:33with education.
29:35Listen to some of
29:36these courses, and
29:37I don't know if
29:39these all exist, I'm
29:40reading several
29:41documents that are
29:41describing different
29:42things that this
29:45university puts out
29:46for the students, but
29:48business and
29:48entrepreneurship, how
29:50does that apply to
29:51the mission?
29:51If you're going to
29:52go on a mission, then
29:53you go on the
29:53side quest, you go to
29:54the university, you
29:55get the degree, now
29:56another side quest to
29:57become an
29:57entrepreneur.
29:59Well, that doesn't
30:00lead you into a
30:01quest that gets you
30:02back into the
30:02mission.
30:03How does that fit?
30:05What is that for?
30:07I'm still trying to
30:08wrap my head around
30:08it.
30:09Where do you go?
30:09Counseling makes
30:10sense, psychology,
30:12training, yes, that
30:13makes sense, and in
30:14the DTS, you might
30:15need this, but things
30:17like science and
30:18technology.
30:19If you're going on a
30:20mission and you're
30:21going to a place
30:22where the people live
30:24in huts, what do you
30:26need science and
30:26technology?
30:27Maybe you're going to
30:27train them how to do
30:28technology, but usually
30:30there has to be a
30:31technology backbone
30:32before you can even
30:33do it.
30:33You get to have
30:34other qualified
30:36individuals come and
30:37put the electric in
30:38and put the plumbing
30:39in.
30:39So it's not like you
30:40can just instantly do
30:42these things.
30:43Maybe they're preparing
30:44for it.
30:45I don't know.
30:46Maritime studies,
30:48navigation, marine
30:49engineering.
30:50So you're going on the
30:51side quest to go to the
30:52university to get a
30:53marine engineer degree,
30:56which isn't accredited,
30:58to go back to the DTS
31:00and become a counselor.
31:01How does that pathway
31:02make sense?
31:03That's really the
31:04question that I'm
31:04driving at here.
31:05If you go down
31:06one by one by one
31:07through the list of
31:08these, if it were
31:09accredited, that would
31:11make sense.
31:11You can go to the
31:12mission, pay more
31:14money, yes, go to the
31:16university, and why you
31:17chose it, I don't know,
31:18but the side quest will
31:19give you a degree that
31:21you can then use in the
31:23real world.
31:25If it was accredited, it
31:26makes sense, but I'm
31:27still trying to wrap my
31:28head around it, and
31:29sadly, I can't.
31:30It's like there's this
31:31catch-22 once you get
31:32in there.
31:33So why do you think, and
31:36I know your answer
31:37already, you've already
31:37answered, but why do you
31:38think they have business
31:40degrees and things like
31:41science and technology?
31:42Why would they even add
31:43it to their course lineup?
31:45So I just finished
31:48Kristen Dumay's new book,
31:50Live, Laugh, Love,
31:52Christian Women and the
31:54Secret World They Created.
31:56It's phenomenal, and it
31:57goes through various
31:59Christian women of
32:00influence, primarily in
32:02the United States, since
32:03like the 1800s, and one
32:05of the things she talks
32:06about a lot is MLMs and
32:10pyramid schemes and this
32:11selling this idea, and to
32:15me, I can't probably
32:17legally say that YMAM is a
32:19pyramid scheme.
32:20I'm not saying that for the
32:22record, but I am saying
32:24that it sells an idea, and
32:27it really is part of the
32:29Seven Mountains mandate.
32:31So someone that's going to
32:31go on there and do a
32:33marine school, they might
32:35feel like God is calling
32:37me to be an underwater
32:39archaeologist, and I want
32:40to be a missionary to the
32:42other underwater
32:42archaeologists, but they
32:44probably don't know that
32:46going through YWAM might
32:48not actually get their foot
32:49in the door with
32:50underwater archaeologists the
32:52way that they think it
32:53will.
32:55And so, and I think that
32:56that's the same for a lot
32:57of these other things where
32:59there's a hopefulness, and
33:01maybe there's a passion, a
33:02genuine passion people have
33:04for industry, for media, for
33:07different things, and there's
33:09this hope, like this is going
33:11to be my gateway into those
33:13places.
33:14And those people may exist.
33:16I have personally not met
33:18anyone outside of YWAM in
33:20industry that says, yes, I did
33:22my education in YWAM, and
33:24then I ended up in the
33:25industry I wanted to end up
33:26in.
33:28Everyone that I've met either
33:29stays in YWAM or ends up
33:31leaving YWAM to actually
33:33attend programs that will
33:36train them for the work that
33:38they want to do.
33:39So I'm reading from their
33:40page, and anybody can go to
33:43uofn.edu and you can read
33:44this, and it says basically on
33:47that basis, U of N students
33:49show commendable strength in
33:51increasing number of
33:51institutions are enthusiastic
33:53of accepting U of N students,
33:56which sounds good, and then it
33:58qualifies it.
33:58Of course, the lack of
34:00accreditation can leave certain
34:02professional doors closed.
34:04Let me read that again.
34:06Lack of accreditation can leave
34:08certain professional doors
34:09closed.
34:10But for many students, this is
34:11not an insurmountable problem.
34:13Yes, it's not an
34:15insurmountable problem.
34:16You go to a second school and
34:17you pay for an accreditation and
34:20an accredited school, but they
34:23it's clearly in their
34:24documentation.
34:24They don't allow this.
34:25This is a big deal for me.
34:27It really is a big deal because
34:30it's part of the side quest.
34:32It is part of the culture of
34:35youth with a mission.
34:36And it is like you said, it's it
34:38is another funding source.
34:40Bottom line is it looks like it
34:42is another funding source, whether
34:44that's something that's, you
34:46know, that we can say is like a
34:48pyramid scheme.
34:49I don't know if I would go
34:49there.
34:50I know that the pyramid schemes
34:51are illegal, so it's probably
34:53not.
34:53They would have to operate within
34:54the law or this whole thing
34:55would blow up.
34:57But it does look to be another
34:58funding source, and it looks to
35:00be a side quest that does not
35:02serve the purpose of the mission.
35:04So I always with youth with a
35:06mission, every conversation we
35:07have, I always go back to the
35:09question, what is the mission?
35:10Is your mission to have a mission
35:13where you're a missionary out on
35:15the mission field, or it is to
35:17become a marine biologist?
35:19Which of the two is it?
35:20And if it's not a marine
35:22biologist, why would you have
35:23this if the accreditation might not
35:26get you into the place that you
35:27want to be?
35:28So in the end, there's in the
35:31college world, if you go to one of
35:32these courses and you find out it's
35:33not accreditation, that's not youth
35:35with a mission, just a different
35:37university.
35:38When you find this out, it's like
35:40you've hit a brick wall.
35:41Suddenly you realize this was for
35:43nothing, I just wasted this time.
35:45I know people who have been
35:47through that.
35:48They went down a pathway and they
35:50realized there was a path of no
35:51return.
35:52This did not return on my
35:53investment.
35:55So when you think that it is a
35:57funding source and you think there
35:58is an additional sum of money for
36:00students to do this, the question
36:02still remains, what is the mission
36:04and why do you have this in the
36:05first place?
36:06I wonder sometimes when I look
36:08through some of the histories, it
36:10looks like Cunningham had this
36:12vision, this broad vision of
36:13building an empire that did include
36:15these things that would become an
36:18equivalent to the rest of the
36:20world.
36:20So you have a university, I'm
36:22building this empire.
36:24Yes, it's not accredited in the
36:25real world, but we'll have our own
36:27world.
36:28And it goes all the way back in
36:30circling to John Alexander Dowie,
36:32which I've mentioned a few times in
36:34the podcast, he kind of did this in
36:36Zion City.
36:36He built his own business empire.
36:38You could have unaccredited college
36:41courses and you could become whatever
36:42it was in his community.
36:44But those communities never came to
36:47fruition.
36:47And we're talking, this is 1978, this
36:49was established.
36:51So the next question that this leads
36:54you to is, if the community did not
36:57get created where this had value, why
37:01do they keep it running?
37:01And that's the million dollar
37:04question.
37:08Yeah.
37:10I have so many questions.
37:12They're just, when you think about
37:13some of these things, you just have
37:15to wonder, what were they thinking?
37:16It's a little bit odd.
37:18So let's fast forward.
37:20You have gone through your missions.
37:22You did the university.
37:25On the flip side, just giving it the
37:28benefit of the doubt, what did you learn
37:31that you can say did come as a value
37:33from being in this university?
37:35Mostly, like the biggest takeaway was
37:38learning to live in community in ways
37:46that were really beautiful.
37:48And I've said this before, some of my
37:50most favorite times in life were in YWAM,
37:53because there is a community aspect that
37:57is a bubble.
37:57And there's parts of that that are really
37:59beautiful and parts of that that are
38:01really difficult.
38:02And so I think it forced sort of
38:05conflict and repair and community in a
38:09way that in the real world, if you have
38:11an issue with someone, you could just
38:13ignore them for months at a time until
38:15you cool off.
38:16But when they live in a bunk bed next to
38:19you, you kind of have to figure things
38:21out, I have moved away from a lot of the
38:27fundamentalist ways that I learned how
38:30to read scripture in the school, mostly
38:34because I think it was lacking a lot of
38:36historical context for the different
38:40books of the Bible and why they were
38:42written.
38:43But it did give me, I think it taught me
38:46my own work ethic.
38:47Um, I didn't realize that I, if I'm very
38:51passionate about something, I can dedicate
38:53lots and lots of time and energy and
38:55effort to it.
38:56Um, and so ironically, I think it's some of
38:59the practices unwittingly that I learned
39:01in those systems that actually led me out
39:04of the system.
39:05And as someone who is just continually
39:08asking questions and reading books and
39:11trying to understand the imperialistic
39:14nature of the Seven Mountains mandate,
39:16um, I think I've taken some of the skills
39:21that I had to learn how to develop in
39:23that world forward.
39:24Uh, but I wouldn't recommend someone who's
39:27wanting to learn a well-rounded education.
39:32I wouldn't recommend anyone do a
39:35discipleship training school or go to YWAM.
39:37For those who did not do higher education,
39:40I don't know that this will resonate, but
39:42when you do higher education and you go to
39:45a university, it's not just that you're
39:47learning the study materials for the tests.
39:51You're learning many things.
39:52You're learning how to interact with people.
39:54You're learning many of the things that you
39:56just mentioned that you did take a value.
39:59But more than that, you're learning to find
40:02resources.
40:03My wife became a special education teacher.
40:06She got her master's degree.
40:08I can name her professors because she
40:11remained in contact with them long after
40:13graduating, years after.
40:16In fact, one of the recent conversations we had
40:18was about one of the professors.
40:20She had these contacts because she had made
40:22more than just valuable information that she
40:27gained in the tests.
40:28She made connections to people that could
40:30interact with each other for years to come.
40:32And so I have two questions about that.
40:35Number one, were, did you feel that the
40:38professors, instructors were qualified?
40:41Do you think that they went through their
40:43proper education to get in here?
40:45And how much of their information did you
40:49use after graduating?
40:51Do you still stay in contact with them?
40:53So to teach a YWAM school or University of the
40:57Nations school, you only have to have gone
41:00through that school.
41:04So most of the people on staff teaching have
41:08done that school.
41:10Maybe they've just done that school.
41:12Maybe they've done other schools.
41:14I don't actually think any of my teachers in
41:17YWAM that I can think of actually even had a
41:20degree from the University of Nations.
41:22Most of them did a nine-month School of Biblical
41:26Studies and then they started staffing and
41:28teaching a School of Biblical Studies and then
41:30eventually they'd lead a School of Biblical
41:32Studies.
41:34I had like one guest teacher that was doing a
41:38degree in seminary who had transferred credits
41:41from YWAM who was there for like two weeks.
41:44But other than that, none of them, most of them
41:49did not have their own college degrees, much
41:52less master's degrees, much, much, much less
41:55Ph.D.
41:56degrees.
41:57Most of them had also joined YWAM fresh out of
42:00high school, did a couple schools, and then
42:03started staffing them.
42:05And then as soon as I left the mission, there
42:09has been no contact or no relationship with anyone
42:13that is still in YWAM and me.
42:18So I haven't talked to many of them for over a
42:21decade at this point.
42:22That's a little unbelievable.
42:24I'll be honest.
42:25My jaw dropped when you said it.
42:27It's like, well, what do you use this for?
42:31There is another issue, and I'm trying to tread
42:35carefully here because I know I'll offend probably
42:38two-thirds of my audience.
42:39But when you go into higher education, you're going
42:43to learn things that challenge your belief system.
42:46Because to learn, you have to learn other belief systems.
42:49It's all part of it, and there is an importance in this.
42:52I see the value in it.
42:53A Christian can learn from other people who don't believe
42:57like a Christian.
42:59But more to the point, you can learn to interact with
43:02people that don't share your belief system.
43:04It is highly important.
43:06I feel that every Christian should interact with atheists,
43:10Muslims, Buddhists, everybody that you can possibly interact
43:13with because that is how people learn and grow, and that's
43:18literally how you can live and survive in this world.
43:21But in one of these Christian universities, and I'm referring
43:26in my head, I'm referring back to some of the others that
43:29I've heard, not this one in particular.
43:31In some of the other universities, they were challenging many
43:35of the current beliefs that weren't in line with the Christian
43:40belief set.
43:41So, in other words, they did not have academic freedom.
43:44That's probably the best way to say this.
43:46When you don't have academic freedom, you're constraining what
43:50you can learn because you can't learn outside of this box.
43:54And this actually is a huge problem if you understand what this
43:57means in the education system.
43:59You are putting yourself into a corner where everybody else can
44:02grow and progress.
44:03And had they done this decades ago, we would still believe that
44:06the world is flat and that the sun, moon, and stars are this
44:10shiny, weird blanket thing that covers the earth.
44:13But we have progressed as a people on earth because we think
44:18outside of that realm and everybody learns and grows together.
44:22What was it like for you in the university?
44:25Did they try to corral your belief set into what aligned with YWAM's
44:31agenda?
44:32Or did they give you the academic freedom?
44:35Very, very, very much the former.
44:37As Shelby has said, there's this phrase, the YWAM DNA.
44:41And it really is a form, I think, of indoctrination.
44:45Um, all of the education that we had was sort of YWAM approved.
44:51There was nothing outside of the ideology that fit within YWAM that I was
44:59exposed to, much less encouraged to read.
45:02It was very much, is it in line with this very charismatic, very fundamentalist
45:09view of how we see scripture, how we see the world, how we see other people.
45:14And along with that, so my wife went to a college that's here locally and she got
45:21a master's degree.
45:22What about this side quest of a university?
45:25You go to the DTS, you do the side quest, you get a bachelor's degree, I'm
45:30guessing.
45:30What happens when you want a master's degree?
45:33Is there a pathway for this?
45:34Yes.
45:35Yes, they do.
45:37And, um, I don't personally know anyone who has gone through and gotten a
45:43master's, but if there's anyone listening who does know or who has gone through
45:48it, please leave a comment or feel free to come on because I'd be very curious to
45:53see where and how that has unfolded for your life.
45:58Um, the other thing that I think is important too is the, I don't know this for the
46:05masters, but at least on the way to the masters, there's a lot of instability in
46:10that you have to go to different bases to do different schools that are four or
46:16five, nine months long.
46:18And so there's so much uncertainty and movement that happens that in my mind
46:24doesn't pre produce kind of the, the solid foundation needed to really dig into
46:32education the way that would be most conducive to digging into education.
46:37Yeah, my jaw is still dropping further and further while you were talking and my
46:42head's doing this Billy from family circus thing.
46:45I'm looking at what they do offer and I'm looking at just some of the degrees that
46:51they offer.
46:51So picture this, you go to your DTS, you do the side quest, the side quest gives you
46:55a degree.
46:56You decide that you want to go further and get a further achievement in the side
46:59quest.
46:59You get master's degree.
47:01Well, what if you want your doctorate now?
47:03Now, because it's not accredited, you've gone all of this path to get your doctorate
47:08and not every university is going to take it in the first place.
47:12So you may have just gone down that path and you can't become, for instance,
47:16training, they have training programs to become a doctor.
47:19So you go all this way to become a doctor and then suddenly realize none of this
47:23will work in this university that I have to go to actually get the PhD.
47:29My mind is blown.
47:31I'll be honest, out of all the conversations we've had, I think this is the one that just
47:35exploded my head because it doesn't make any sense.
47:40I'm walking through this and I'm logically, somebody in the comments, like Jenny said,
47:44if you have experience in this, you can comment, you can write me on the website.
47:49I really want to know how, how this makes sense and what that can be used for.
47:54I'm, I'm doing some research on this and I'm trying to understand what is the value of this.
48:00I can't make that leap.
48:02So I think I'll just end it there.
48:04I don't understand it.
48:07I think that seems like a fair place to end.
48:10This is like, what, uh, which feels really important in a thing that we're talking about
48:16education and degrees.
48:18It shouldn't probably leave us as baffled as it is leaving us.
48:23I'm hoping, and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt that somebody can contact and
48:27say, yes, all of this makes sense.
48:29And if you are joining this institution and paying this extra money, it's going to benefit
48:34you for the rest of your life.
48:35That's what I'm hoping somebody will comment.
48:37I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
48:39And with that, I'll end it.
48:41If you've enjoyed our show and you want more information, you can check us out on the web.
48:44You can find us at william-branham.org.
48:46For more about the dark side of the new apostolic reformation, you can read weaponized religion
48:50from Christian identity to the NAR available on Amazon, Kindle, and Audible.
49:10We will don't wait for that.
49:12You can find us at william-branham.com.
49:17Yeah, you can see you on our side of the new apostolic reformation,ил WATCH.
49:24You can find us at william-branham.
49:25I'll show you on your way.
49:25If you have wisdom and see you on fire in this place.
49:25You have a woman and this lady that is a bye-bye I'll see you on your debugger and so
49:26many SEÑs that are sent in you.
49:33I sent the nutturn and he'll see you on the mayrocessor.

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