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Amit Shah warns Rahul Gandhi, says Congress will lose in 2029
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00:00Good evening, you're watching India First. I'm Gaurav Savan.
00:04Union Home Minister Amit Shah has come out all guns blazing,
00:08hitting out at Leader of Opposition and Senior Congress Leader Rahul Gandhi.
00:13So he's hit out at the Congress in particular and the Opposition India Alliance in general,
00:19telling the Congress to be prepared for another electoral defeat in 2029.
00:25Amit Shah hit out at the Congress.
00:29He exposed their repeated electoral defeats and asked Rahul Gandhi to introspect
00:35instead of blaming the Election Commission or the Chief Election Commissioner.
00:40Amit Shah declared Congress Party's 2029 loss was guaranteed the way they were moving forward.
00:47He rejected the opposition's claim that the defeats were linked to the special intensive revision of the electoral rolls.
00:54Amit Shah reminded the Congress of their long electoral drought.
00:59For example, in states like Gujarat, where the Congress hadn't been in power for four decades,
01:07or Tamil Nadu, where the Congress had been out of power for even longer, or Bengal,
01:12he urged Rahul Gandhi to learn from electoral defeats and setbacks, introspect,
01:19and stop blaming the EVM or the EC.
01:23He accused the opposition of blaming the Election Commission,
01:27shielding alleged infiltrators, the Ghuspaitiyas,
01:31and pursued what he called was politics of negativity.
01:37Amit Shah's message was sharp and clear.
01:40Stop blaming the system, rethink your strategy,
01:43and prepare for another electoral battle,
01:46or be prepared to lose even the 2029 Lok Sabha elections.
01:52I'll get you more on the story,
01:53but first, let's listen in to the Union Home Minister,
01:56some of the key points that he made.
02:03I'll get you more on the story of Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
02:28I'll get you more on the story of Mr. Rahul Gandhi.
02:52and the borders of the country.
02:54You have no reach.
02:56There are many days in the country,
02:57such as the Bahar, the Uttar Pradesh, the Tamil Nadu,
03:02you have many ten days,
03:04the Congress Party will be there.
03:06The people who have killed it,
03:07they have killed it.
03:09For now, there is one of the other one,
03:14Congress has won't win.
03:16The other one,
03:17चुनाव वह 49 साल के पहले 1985 में जीते थे उसके बाद लगातार गुजरात में उनकी हार हो रही है
03:27मैं राहुल जी को ये भी पूछना चाहता हूं कि क्या SIR का परिणाम है भारतिय जनता पार्टी की लोगप्रियतान
03:36मोदी जी की लोगप्रियता को आप SIR का परिणाम कहकर ज�
03:44ये एक बहुत बड़े सुबे में जहां आपका हमेशा सासन रहता था वहां इक तालीस साल से एक भी चुनाव
03:53आपने जीत पाए इनके लिए आत्मनिरिक्षन का बहुत बड़ा विशय है
04:00This is taking the battle right back into the opposition camp because earlier today the opposition bloc had a tea
04:09party. The India bloc met for high tea at Rahul Gandhi's residence and this is where they worked on their
04:16strategy against not just the Chief Election Commissioner Gyanesh Kumar but also against the Narendra Modi government.
04:23Rahul Gandhi up the ante against the Narendra Modi government. He pledged to fight whatever it takes and however long
04:31it takes. Whether it takes two months, three months, six months, a year or even two years, he said he
04:38had or the party had perseverance.
04:42He said that the battle against the Prime Minister, the Home Minister and the Chief Election Commissioner will continue.
04:49The Congress Party is trying to frame their battle as a fight to restore democracy and the BJP or the
04:59Home Minister is framing their battle against ghuspaitiyas or illegal infiltrators.
05:06We'll get you all sides of the story but first listen in to Rahul Gandhi.
05:12The people who have done this, Mr. Modi, who is the main architect, Mr. Amit Shah, who is the implementer,
05:29Mr. Gyanesh Kumar and others.
05:34They need to understand that the net is closing around them.
05:44It is not going to be so simple that you can destroy the Indian Constitution and get away with it.
05:55I've seen the first time, Mr. Amit Shah, who doesn't want to do this, but I do guarantee myself that
06:00if nor is it, Mr. Aad Gyanesh our team, it will not just stop it.
06:07Now not today, tomorrow not today, tomorrow not today, tomorrow not today, in a month not today, next week not
06:14today, next month not today, next week not today,6 months not today.
06:15Not one year or two, it will not stop it.
06:38so now we've set the stage for this battle for the bjp it's a battle against the ghush
06:45for the congress they say it's to defend democracy and to protect the constitution
06:51amit shah's message is stinging he's accused rahul gandhi of trying to shield the infiltrators
06:57in the guise of trying to stop the special intensive revision of the electoral rolls he's
07:02told the congress at this rate they will lose 2029 so what should one make of the home minister's
07:08statement taking this battle right into the opposition camp or the congress saying they
07:13have the perseverance whether it takes three months or two years they will fight joining
07:19me on india first sanju varma national spokesperson of the bhartiya janta party mohan kumar mangalam
07:24national spokesperson of the congress party ambassador veena sikri is a former top diplomat she's served
07:29in bangladesh dr torah tara kartha is former director the national security council secretariat
07:34uh looks at national security and the point of whether it's infiltration or demographic changes
07:41very closely mohan kumar mangalam the home minister predicts the congress will lose 2029
07:47at this rate he insists the congress strategy is to shield infiltrators in the guise of stopping
07:54the special intensive revision of the electoral rolls sir
07:59kaurav the home minister actually looked a little nervous to me i mean i watched him in parliament many
08:05times and i must say he almost always gets his facts right but today i think maybe his nervousness
08:11betrayed him and he came out with facts that made no sense at all or rather his version of facts
08:16if you
08:17will he said mr gandhi under his tenure as congress president had no victories he actually did when he
08:23was congress president from 17 to 19 and during which time he won chattisgarh he won rajistan he won
08:28madhya pradesh and he formed government in karnataka with a coalition so mr amit shah is not used to making
08:34these remarks i mean i think maybe the crowd yesterday has got to him in some way or the other
08:38uh the other thing is i am not sure how he's still continuing to talk with this amount of bluster
08:44and
08:44say that they'll win 2029 after they said they'll win 400 plus in 2024 and fell woefully short had to
08:50form a coalition government clearly humility is not one of his strong suits uh lastly this whole narrative
08:57about khuspatia i am still waiting to see the list of khuspatias that have been identified
09:02under sir which has not come from the election commission has been left wanting for data from
09:07the ec maybe mr amit shah has seen that data and he can share it with us since he's talking
09:11about
09:12that being the main reason we'd love to see that data ourselves where fair enough sanju varma on what
09:18basis would you see the home minister predict that the congress will lose its fourth consecutive
09:24loksabha elections in 2029 you know uh i always say that don't look at events in isolation look at
09:33the track record of an entity and let's not forget in the last three loksabha elections put together
09:39the congress has a royal score of 195 seats the bjp at 825 which means that the bjp has 4
09:47.3 times
09:49higher seats higher seats than the congress in the last three loksabha elections put together but we
09:54don't rest on our past laurels my limited point is this when the bjp lost karnataka the bjp lost
10:00the bjp lost himachal pradesh we went back to the drawing board we did not cry bulls we did not
10:06play
10:06the victim card that oh the election commission has committed vote jori so rahul gandhi is a reckless
10:14sore loser point number one point number two let's not forget in 2012 kapil sybil said sir is a must
10:22in 2015 arvin kejriwal said sir is a must 8 lakh fake voters in delhi need to be deleted and
10:30very
10:30quickly gaurav in 2018 abhishek manu singhvi said there are 7070 lakh fake voters in telangana
10:37sir is a must in 2019 the same abhishek manu singhvi said there are 5050 lakh fake voters in
10:44andhra pradesh sir is a must and today from sybil to kejriwal to abhishek manu singhvi they say sir
10:51is illegal which means that when they win elections sub changasi when they start losing one election
10:58after another they've found the very constitutional process that they have supported a decade back
11:05that is the hypocrisy of the congress party which is going to be their nemesis and i always say one
11:11thing gaurav that in politics you need to take your victories in your stride and you also need to
11:18take your losses in your stride but rahul gandhi what has he been doing election commission ne chori ki
11:23dilli police uh lov tantra ko khatre mein dal rahi hai om dilla speaker is not being fair to us
11:30apart from making reckless allegations what has rahul gandhi achieved his credibility is zero zero
11:37fair enough let me bring in ambassador sikri and dr tara karta into this conversation on the issue of
11:43ghuzpaityas because that is a very sensitive issue and and mohan i will come to you to respond in just
11:48a
11:48moment uh ambassador sikri you've served in bangladesh were illegal infiltrators a major problem
11:55in india's electoral system even in the past and were they voters did this have an impact on the
12:03demographic profile impacting electoral results in your reading of the situation yes most certainly
12:11in bangladesh and between bangladesh and india uh illegal immigrants has always been an issue
12:17it was discussed you will not believe it as far back as 92 when begum halda zia was the prime
12:22minister
12:22for the first time and she came to india on an official visit and even in the document it was
12:27mentioned that illegal immigrants is a problem and it will be solved i think so that we have to
12:31recognize but i also want to point out that illegal immigrants don't enter the uh voters list on their
12:38own names they enter the voters list on other names and this is where we have to come to the
12:43crux of
12:44the issue which is what is the dimension of the problem let us see india has approximately 100
12:50crore voters all right out of 100 crore voters 87 crores have been correctly and fully uh you know
12:58in the sir results are there there is no problem there's only a problem about 13 crore out of 13
13:05crore
13:05voters a number of people who have died and are likely to that is why their names have been deleted
13:10is around 2.8 to 3 crore number of people who have permanently moved another six crore number of
13:16people who are not at home and so they were not counted at all three calls we come to a
13:20number of
13:22people who have been uh either not there or have been wrongly included or left out is 0.5 percent
13:29about 50 lakhs now we have to focus on these 50 lakhs and we have to see whether they have
13:35been wrongly
13:36left out or correctly left out and i think the sir process which is fully legal all the judges nobody
13:41has called it illegal the sir process needs to they have kept the doors open they have kept the doors
13:47open for people to come back and appeal to them and see whether they have been wrongly left out or
13:52not
13:52so let us be very clear that the people protesting are not those who have been left out we have
13:57people
13:58coming from germany we have people coming to america they're all jumping on the bandwagon quite clearly
14:03sponsored by various uh the external forces i'll come to these external forces in just a moment
14:08ma'am because that's the second part of our show for the moment i want to concentrate on what amit
14:12shah
14:13has just said uh on the issue of ghuspaitiyas for example dr tara kartha amit shah speaks of
14:19strengthening nationalist forces so is the ghuspaitiya a critical issue for our nation beyond elections now
14:27is this becoming a ghuspaitiya banam votchori you know ghuspaitiyas on one side or illegal infiltrators
14:34getting into the electoral system on one side and strengthening democracy or protecting constitution
14:39narrative on the other side dr tara kartha no in this i will go up i will hundred percent have
14:46to agree
14:46with amit shah i'm sorry this ghuspaitiya issue we didn't call them that then we called them infiltrators
14:52and we had a very very serious security situation in much of northeast in sim i mean the whole ulfa
15:00thing that was based on this this kind of immigration you had a whole corridor where these people would
15:06come from bangladesh that was the extent of it that has since moved inwards there is a very serious
15:13problem you cannot deny this i'm not about talking about the you know the sir process that is not my
15:19limit but in this fact that your elections in in west bengal elections in assam elections in north
15:28east states were all influenced by the fact that these people were inside as i mean these people have
15:34ids which i don't have you know it's amazing these guys have every single they have ration card they have
15:41every single card i don't get those things this is an issue has to be done by whichever party
15:47so let me bring in mohan kumar manglam uh sir do you see this now become a battle of contrasting
15:54and
15:54conflicting narratives the home minister has taken the battle into rahul gandhi's camp perhaps striking
16:01at what many may see as the opposition's achilles heel the issue of ghuspaitiyas it is a very emotive
16:10issue uh in in this country so the sir process he insists is to weed out the ghuspaitiyas sir
16:18let me give you data from official records of mha parliamentary replies do you know how many
16:25people whose petiyas were deported during upa between 82 and 88 000 do you know how many were
16:32deported during nda from 14 to 24 3 500 to 4 000 this is parliamentary replies i'm quoting data actually
16:39from replies in parliament now as far as um one of your panelists was saying how many people were died
16:46how many people moved that's great why don't they tell us how many people were illegal immigrants
16:50why doesn't the election commission tell us that i'm i understand the political rhetoric i mean mr
16:56amit shah is the master jumla waj we all know this he's been giving us jumla since 2014 but frankly
17:03we'd like more data before we end up accepting whatever he says because he's certainly not proven
17:09himself to be a credible witness to anything that's happening here so and as far as us being
17:15so losers right it's not like mr gandhi has said carte blanche that oh we lost so we got it
17:21he has presented leans of data through multiple interactions with the press through open press
17:27conferences where the press can ask him counter questions something that neither the prime minister
17:32or the home minister like to do because they believe in blustering monologues that lack concrete data
17:37and the election commission has not been able to respond now as last point as far as the sir being
17:43legal
17:43the actions of the cec whether they were within the ambit of legality or not is currently a question
17:50of debate in the supreme court itself so i would be cautious to declare here that everything that's happened
17:57in this sir process is perfectly legal because that is the question that the supreme court is currently deciding on
18:04sanju varma the congress asks how many ghuspethiyas or illegal bangladeshi or rohingya infiltrators
18:12or illegals in a country removed through this uh through this process of sir uh the special intensive revision
18:19the numbers have never been spelt out you know again opposition gives this number of 13 crore
18:25disenfranchised government of e or ec as the congress says have given us no numbers on ghuspethiyas ma'am
18:32gaurab first and foremost let me make one thing very clear rahul gandhi is the master of deception
18:39rahul gandhi said vote chori hui hai but rahul gandhi is not able to provide a shred of evidence
18:45he says he's provided tons of evidence what i did not heckle this man
18:51sorry sir i'm not heckling you i was interrupting you go ahead
18:56one by one no absolutely one by one one by one
19:04okay no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no let
19:09Mr. Kumar Mangalam, let Ms. Varma complete a point.
19:12I'm coming back to you, sir.
19:13Ma'am, complete your point uninterrupted.
19:14Go on.
19:16Gaurav, I need two minutes because I heard the monologue of the Congress spokesperson.
19:20He made zero sense.
19:21Now, let me come to the moot point.
19:23Rahul Gandhi says Om Birla is an agent of the BJP.
19:28The BJP is supposed to prove that Rahul Gandhi's allegations have credibility.
19:31Rahul Gandhi says that the Chief Election Commissioner is an agent of the BJP.
19:35The BJP is supposed to prove that Rahul Gandhi's allegations are credible.
19:40Who is Rahul Gandhi?
19:41He's a leader of the opposition.
19:43Has he behaved like one?
19:44Rahul Gandhi has not yet got a clean shit in the national heron scam.
19:48Rahul Gandhi's own credibility is at stake.
19:51But Rahul Gandhi has been delegitimizing every constitutional authority.
19:56Rahul Gandhi says Delhi police is a bunch of goons.
19:58Whereas Rahul Gandhi is the same man who is actually elbowing a female journalist.
20:06Elbowing a female concierge.
20:08Oh, God.
20:09Nonsense.
20:11I'm smashing the paithiyaki.
20:13But let me come back to your topic.
20:14Gaurav, just one minute.
20:17Because, ma'am, on facts on how many ghus paithiyas removed.
20:21Can I come?
20:22Yes, please.
20:23Let me speak.
20:24I heard your question.
20:26On this 13 crore deletions, which has been at the center of this entire controversy, here are the hard facts.
20:33Let your audience decide.
20:352.8 crore dead voters.
20:383 crore absentee voters.
20:406.3 crore permanently shifted.
20:44There could have been Rohingyas.
20:45There could have been Bangladeshi infiltrators and more.
20:481 crore duplicate voters.
20:50So, sanitization of the rolls has been done by the chief election commissioner.
20:56And instead of applauding him, there is an entire darbari kabal, which is saying,
21:02Aree, Gyanesh Kumar ne toh BJP ke saath milkar vote chori ki hai.
21:06My final point, Gaurav.
21:08Every time I discuss this vote chori business, I'm told, oh, but you know what, Sanju Verma?
21:13Gyanesh Kumar's two colleagues have dissented against him.
21:16So, I said, so what?
21:18GVG Krishnamurti dissented against TN Session.
21:21Naveen Chawla dissented against MS.
21:24VS Sampath.
21:25VS Sampath dissented against Miss Rama Devi.
21:29And then you had people like, you know, Naveen Chawla who himself dissented against MS Gill.
21:35So, dissent has been a routine protocol within the election commission.
21:39It is not happening for the first time.
21:41You've made your point.
21:42So, don't demonize the election commission.
21:44Don't demonize the election commission.
21:46Of course, these are now matters in courts of law.
21:49And the court will decide.
21:51Mr. Kumar Mangalam, since a charge was made and you wanted to come in,
21:55respond, sir, before I bring in Ambassador Sikri and Dr. Kartha.
21:59What Sanju said in terms of Mr. Rahul Gandhi elbowing a journalist,
22:03and I think she said a female journalist,
22:05is a flat out bald face lie.
22:08And I'm just surprised she thinks she can get away with this nonsense on the show.
22:12As far as her calling me bad tamis, etc.
22:15I'm used to it.
22:15This is just her, you know, her integrity.
22:19Ma'am, kindly let him complete this point.
22:21I will come back to you.
22:22Now, three crore absentee voters.
22:24Who are they?
22:25Where are they?
22:25And did the numbers she actually split up total up to 13?
22:29No, they didn't.
22:30She couldn't give you an answer.
22:32The same question I'm asking.
22:33And we're not expecting the BJP to reply.
22:36The BJP just wants to come in and reply because they know that they're behind this.
22:40We're asking the election commission to be held accountable
22:42because that is supposed to be an institution under the constitution
22:46that we are supposed to trust.
22:48We're talking directly to the referee and saying,
22:50would you please tell us why you're behaving in a partisan manner?
22:54And here you have the other side saying,
22:56no, no, the referee is fine.
22:57He's doing great.
22:57He's absolutely the best referee ever.
23:00I mean, we're not going to listen to you.
23:01Why are you even talking to us?
23:03We are looking to the election commission to respond.
23:06Right?
23:06But it is for the voters of this country.
23:09Yes, absolutely, Gaurav, without a doubt.
23:12And there were two and a half lakh voters on the streets yesterday in this country in Delhi
23:16who walked all the way with Mr. Gandhi.
23:20And again, she's talking.
23:21I mean, I didn't even call her Eclin, even though that's what she does for her profession.
23:25Absolutely.
23:26Okay.
23:27Yeah.
23:27Okay.
23:28Sanju Verma, respond.
23:30Yes.
23:31Gaurav, I think Mohan Kumar Mangala's arithmetic is absolutely down the tube.
23:37He said, oh, Sanju Verma gave numbers which does not total into 13 crore.
23:412.8 crore plus 3 crore plus 6.3 crore plus 1 crore is the figure I gave,
23:46which is 1.3 crore.
23:47What is 6.3 crore?
23:49It's 13.1 crore.
23:50What is 6.3 crore?
23:51Please learn.
23:52I guess, okay, okay, hold on.
23:54Don't be insulting.
23:56Listen, listen, Sanju, Sanju, Sanju.
23:57Don't be insulting.
23:58I didn't hear the, what is 6.3 crore?
24:01Can you just repeat what 6.3 crore is?
24:04Because you allow him a free run.
24:06I'm asking you to repeat.
24:07You said I'm illiterate.
24:08You said I don't know basic math.
24:10So, at least I can ask you what 6.3 crore is, right?
24:13Because I obviously didn't know that part.
24:14The figures are out there in public domain that Sanju Verma lists out,
24:18but I want to bring in Ambassador Sikri for a moment.
24:20I'm waiting to give me time.
24:22Okay, Sanju Verma, 30 seconds.
24:24Complete your point and no interruptions, please.
24:26And then I'll bring in Ambassador Sikri.
24:28You know, I don't like when people fact check me
24:32because I do my homework without spitting out facts on national television.
24:37I repeat, Gaurav, very quickly, 10 seconds.
24:392.8 crore dead voters, 3 crore absentee voters, 6.3 crore permanently shifted voters, 1 crore duplicate voters.
24:50The total is 13, 13.1 crore voters, which also includes Rohingyas, Ghuspethyas, infiltrators.
25:00Go and run basic arithmetic.
25:03Where does it say that?
25:05Where does it say that?
25:06Listen, your boss is a tadi par fraud.
25:09Okay, it's a tadi par fraud.
25:10You better watch your mouth when you're talking on this show.
25:13Gaurav, I know.
25:14Only Mohan Kumar Mangalam now to respond.
25:17Only Mohan Kumar Mangalam for the next minute.
25:22Go on, sir.
25:23Gaurav, first, this cantankerous woman should not be allowed to use terms like...
25:27Okay, no personal attacks on anybody.
25:29I've requested all our guests.
25:31We have a diplomat.
25:32I mean, you know, this is a family show, ladies and gentlemen.
25:36You cannot allow her to talk in this manner, then.
25:37I don't allow anybody to talk in this manner.
25:40I never permit personal attacks.
25:42You did absolutely allow her to go ahead and vilify the leader of opposition
25:46as much as she could using terms as despicable as she always does.
25:49Because, I mean, I can't debate with someone who has such a...
25:52Even a modicum of grace is missing.
25:54But now let me get...
25:55No personal attacks.
25:55Let me talk.
25:56Let me talk.
25:56Yes, only on points.
25:58No personal attacks.
25:59Nowhere in any of the data released by the election commission,
26:02and I'm going to sound like a broken record when I'm saying this,
26:05does it say how many illegal immigrants were removed from the list?
26:08One.
26:09Two, we have seen multiple examples...
26:12Okay, ma'am, let me compare this point.
26:13We have seen multiple examples in Goa and in West Bengal
26:17where the judiciary itself had to intervene.
26:20And even after the judiciary's intervention,
26:23you had something pop up called logical discrepancies
26:25that disenfranchised,
26:27lacks of voters from the rubroles,
26:29and that had to go to tribunals.
26:31And when they finally got a chance to vote,
26:33the election was over.
26:34You still have that exercise ongoing right now.
26:37In fact, the election commission is coming out with a notification saying
26:39that, oh, we're going to make sure that nobody's left behind.
26:42Guess what?
26:43There are lacks of voters who didn't get a chance to vote
26:45in West Bengal election,
26:46which might have changed the outcome.
26:48My point is there's so much...
26:50Would it have changed the outcome?
26:51Okay, so are these...
26:52It might have...
26:53I have not the authority to...
26:55Avgharov.
26:55Yes.
26:56If there are...
26:56And we will let courts of law decide that.
26:58Hold on.
26:59You know, while this political debate continues,
27:01I want to bring in Ambassador Sikri.
27:03I want to bring in Ambassador Sikri on facts.
27:07Okay, 30 seconds.
27:08Quickly respond, ma'am.
27:09But once you've responded, only Ambassador Sikri.
27:12Quickly, Sanju Verma.
27:15Gaurav, Mohan Kumar Manglam said this cantankerous woman.
27:19Yes.
27:19I asked him.
27:20That is unacceptable.
27:22I told him it's unacceptable.
27:24Go on, ma'am.
27:25Can I finish, please?
27:26Yes, please.
27:27Can I please finish, Gaurav?
27:28Yes, please.
27:28I may be cantankerous, but I'm not a thug.
27:32I'm not a vandal.
27:33I'm not somebody who delegitimizes constitutional bodies.
27:37I'm not a pappu like Rahul Gandhi.
27:39Okay, again, my request is no personal attacks.
27:43My request with folded hands to all our guests, to both our political guests.
27:48We have to remain polite and civil.
27:51This is a show that families watch, ladies and gentlemen.
27:54And please permit me to bring in Ambassador Sikri for a moment.
27:57On facts, Ambassador Sikri, the targeting of the Chief Election Commissioner, this is again
28:03a point that's repeatedly being highlighted.
28:05You know, since you're a diplomat, he took over as CEC in 2025.
28:12The BJP says Congress lost multiple elections, including 2014 and 2019, way before Gyanesh Kumar
28:18was appointed.
28:18And they have won multiple states with him in the Nirvachan Southern.
28:23Ma'am, how do you look at this political battle and the targeting of the Nirvachan Southern
28:29or the Election Commission?
28:30And how would the world be watching this?
28:34I think the targeting of the Election Commission is wrong because, first of all, the SIR being
28:41a legal process is something even the Supreme Court has given a verdict on.
28:45Although I agree the case is still going on, but there is a clear indication that SIR is
28:50a legal process.
28:51Secondly, this whole talk of Guzpatias, Guzpatias are not written into the list.
28:56I mean, they are taking the place of somebody else in the list.
29:00They're giving their vote and pretending to be somebody else.
29:03That's why the deletion of all those who have passed away and who have moved permanently,
29:08no duplication in two or three different places, all that is very vital.
29:12And I would like to say that an indication of the success of the SIR process has been that
29:18so many of these illegal immigrants have been walking back into Bangladesh for the last
29:22many, many, many, many months.
29:24Ever since the SIR process started, they've been leaving voluntarily because they know
29:28that they will be put into camps and they'll never be allowed to come to India again.
29:31So they've been just walking back into their own country.
29:34And so much so that the Bangladeshis are calling it push-in.
29:37There is no push-in from India side at all.
29:39The people just want to go back because they know that their time in India is no longer
29:43legal and no longer going to be accepted.
29:46So I think this is an important part.
29:47I think the global community coverage of this whole event is very partisan because I think
29:54that they are not looking at the substance of the issue at all.
29:59I'm coming to global community in just a moment because that's something that's deeply concerning.
30:03And I want to, for a moment, talk about parallels that are now being drawn between what's happening
30:08in France and what's happening in India.
30:10But just in 30 seconds, Dr. Tara Kartha, your closing comments on this part of the debate
30:14on SIR on Votchori versus Ghuspethia.
30:19Is that the debate that has now been...
30:22Is that the template that you see moving forward?
30:25The BJP says SIR process is to weed out the Ghuspethias.
30:30The Congress and the opposition bloc are looking at it as Votchori.
30:35See, no country in the world will allow foreigners to be part of the election process.
30:41It's simply unacceptable.
30:42And that is something I think, even Congress at that time, they said the same thing.
30:49So I don't want to get into the political aspects.
30:52But for me, from my point of view, this is a very strong security risk.
30:56In terms of Bangladeshis, we've been saying, even in fact, I remember putting up this file
31:02long ago that we need a work permit system.
31:04Let them come here.
31:05Let them work.
31:06You have a work permit.
31:07And you're done.
31:08But this kind, what Ambassador Sikri said is absolutely right.
31:14If you steal someone's identity, and today's...
31:18You know, Gaurav, the kind of things that are happening.
31:21Your bank accounts, everything is up for things.
31:23So it is a very, very serious security risk.
31:26It's another issue that it is the opposition's job to the staff.
31:31That's what democracy is.
31:32Oh, absolutely.
31:33I'm very happy with the opposition targeting the government.
31:36But on a serious national security issue, you know, Mohan Kumar Mangalam and Sanju Verma
31:40stay with us on the second part of this debate.
31:42You know, the point remains, one would expect everyone to be on the same page, keeping India
31:47first.
31:48But the second part of this debate, look, the International Monetary Fund, IMF, is talking
31:53about India's GDP growth forecast at 7% even for 2027, 26-27.
31:59The IMF in the World Economic Outlook report says, and I quote,
32:05India stands out with upward revisions, reflecting sustained momentum, and growing evidence of
32:12a stronger growth potential, supported by favourable demographic dynamics, a large and expanding
32:20domestic market, and continued structural reforms.
32:24But what are headlines in India and about India overseas?
32:29They're being dominated by street protests and political confrontation.
32:34From the marches against the CEC to Kokru Janata Party agitation over the electoral roll.
32:41The mobilisation seems to have become a parallel arena of political power.
32:45And now there's a Fox News report that set the cat among pigeons.
32:51This report details how a transnational network of, according to this report, left-wing organisations,
32:59activist groups and media platforms, they're together amplifying recent student protests
33:05in France and the current unrest in India.
33:09The report states that foreign-funded leftist networks are fuelling protests in India.
33:14The report points to an alleged international network, backing leftist organisations and protest
33:19movements.
33:20At the centre, according to the report, is a US-born businessman, Nevel Roy Singham.
33:28Now, Nevel Roy Singham is accused of channelling millions into left-wing organisations and
33:34propaganda networks.
33:35The report links these alleged funding networks to student mobilisation in India and draws parallels
33:42with protests in France and in Greece.
33:45The report sheds new light on the growing trend of Sadak Par Faisla, with political battles
33:52increasingly spilling onto the streets.
33:55In some instances, as you watch in these images, you have a lot more that's happening.
34:02The government says Rahul Gandhi, leader of opposition, should explain, is he leading a band of anarchists?
34:13Look at these images.
34:15Rahul Gandhi, Priyanka Gandhi, Wadra, walking alongside Neha Bora, AISA president, whose organisation
34:22is affiliated with the CPIML.
34:24Well, now, the Liberation March also threw up some visuals, as you see on your television
34:31screen, you know, people being pushed around, including the chief minister of Karnataka.
34:36Of course, he has today told India today that he was not being pushed around, but Rahul Gandhi
34:42was advising him to move to a bus for safety.
34:46But again, that question that's being asked, why the special spotlight on an AISA activist?
34:51A visible face of the CJP-associated protest movement, the lady's presence alongside the
34:58Gandhi's siblings raises a question.
35:00Is Rahul Gandhi bringing a left-linked student activist into the Congress street mobilisation?
35:08And if so, why?
35:09The optics are very significant.
35:11The Congress's focus is on electoral roles, institutional accountability, wealth inequality,
35:17caste census overlaps with themes pushed by these organisations, the left-wing organisations.
35:24Critics see this as an ideological shift that's now out in the open.
35:29Congress, of course, could argue that they're building a broader opposition coalition against
35:34the government.
35:34But then, there are allegations that are now being made over external influence and openly.
35:39So, for example, on the 10th of November, you had BJP President Nitin Nabeen accusing the
35:44India bloc and the CJP-led protests to serving foreign interests.
35:50At the India Today conclave in Mumbai, Union Parliamentary Affairs Minister and Minority Minister
35:56Kiran Rijiju, he warned of alleged foreign influence.
36:00And you also have voices like the Bihar governor, Left-in-General Syed Atta Hasnen, in an exclusive
36:07fireside chat with me at the same India Today conclave in Mumbai, he flagged a wider non-military
36:14threat that our nation faces as our stature grows, economically and strategically.
36:21And very recently, you had Legal Eagle Hari Salve.
36:23He raised claims of foreign funding.
36:26Mahesh Jaitmalani urged closer scrutiny of funding, that funds that are coming into India,
36:33there should be closer scrutiny under FCRA.
36:36But then, there's another debate.
36:38The India story.
36:40The economic rise.
36:41IMF raising India's financial year 2027 growth from 6.4 to 7%.
36:47They're citing resilient domestic demand, strong service activities, structural strengths
36:51of Indian economy.
36:52Is that now in the line of fire?
36:56All of these are very critical points.
36:59Is India's economic rise drawing attempts to undermine India's stability from outside
37:06and from within?
37:08Are powers at play here?
37:10That's a critical question that is being asked.
37:13But first, listen in to Union Minister Kiran Rijiju, Bihar Governor General Syed Atta Hasnen
37:17and Unlegal Hari Salve.
37:21Thank you for listening to the truth.
37:22When we believe in the truth, we will go ahead and support the country.
37:26Now India is moving very quickly forward.
37:29This is increasing the journey of Hindustan and Vixit Baharat.
37:32The journey of Hindustan is moving forward.
37:35There are some forces in the country that are saying open.
37:38Some people come from the country, some of our Indians are coming from the country.
37:41Some of our Indians are coming from the country, and some of our Indians are coming from the country.
37:44They come from the country, and come from the country, and come from the country.
37:45And the country is moving forward.
38:24The world of social media is all about divisiveness.
38:27How to create divisions in society.
38:30How to use that.
38:32And you don't have to be sitting in India to do that.
38:34You can be sitting in any part of the globe and execute your plans.
38:39Cyber security, for that matter.
38:42Fake currency.
38:43People who are not happy to see India's economic growth
38:45will be always wishing to induct loads and loads of fake currency into India.
38:52So, to my mind, we have to be very careful about the non-military threats.
38:58Much more than the military threats.
39:00This prize is funded from outside.
39:03I am going to say that it is funded from outside.
39:06It is motivated from outside.
39:09And this country, especially from America, is a great joy to see India.
39:17And that day, our finance minister told us that we have all free trade agreements.
39:24And Canada will also be advanced.
39:28And when I asked about America, they told us that it is a platoon.
39:40Mohan Kumar Mangalam, how would you respond to these accusations
39:44that these are foreign-funded protests to destabilize India's growth story?
39:49IMF is projecting that we'll be growing at 7%,
39:52world's fastest-growing large economy.
39:55And the Congress is being accused of trying to spread anarchy, sir.
40:00First, I'll be very happy if the IMF's growth projections come true.
40:04As far as national interest and national security is concerned,
40:08there isn't any BJP or Congress.
40:10We're all united on this.
40:11I just think accusations like this are very, very serious.
40:16We should not make them in any flippant manner.
40:18We made that mistake during the farmers' protest,
40:21or rather I would say the government did,
40:23when they accused a 21-year-old climate activist
40:27and tried to file a charge sheet on her under UAPA.
40:31The court dismissed it, threw it out of hand.
40:33It went all the way when the court actually commented
40:35saying that dissent does not mean sedition.
40:39So we have to be very careful when we use these terms.
40:42There have been cases, I'll also say,
40:44where the Intelligence Bureau, the ED, the NIA
40:49have filed successfully cases against individuals or organizations
40:52and have traced the Havala money, the bank transactions, etc.
40:57to establish, without a doubt, how an organization is getting funded.
41:02I think until we are able to see that,
41:04we should not make flippant remarks
41:06and say that, oh, something is foreign-funded.
41:09As far as the Fox News investigative report is concerned,
41:20Neville Roy Singham has actually been under investigation
41:23by the NIA since 2023.
41:25You will remember there was this news click issue
41:27when his name first came up.
41:30And I'm wondering that if he has been under investigation,
41:33how is it that despite the ED, the Intelligence Bureau,
41:36everybody being on his case,
41:37he's still able to orchestrate something like what we're talking about,
41:40like these student educations.
41:42And I want to understand what we're talking about in terms of funding.
41:46Dissent is not sedition.
41:49On what basis are senior BJP leaders
41:52making such a statement of an alleged foreign hand of foreign funding?
41:57Very serious charges to level, ma'am.
41:59But is it backed by evidence that can be produced in a court of law?
42:03Okay.
42:04So, Gaurav, now let me spit out some hard facts
42:07because data is the biggest ammunition I have.
42:10Last quarter, India saw a GDP growth of 7.8%.
42:14And today the IMF says India will grow in FY27 at 7%.
42:19Last week, the World Bank raised India's GDP growth forecast
42:22from 6.6% to 7.1%.
42:24For the first time in 35 years,
42:27the Japanese credit rating agency raised India's long-term outlook
42:32from BBB plus to A minus.
42:35For the first time in 35 years, we hit the A category.
42:39Last year, Standard & Poor, the global rating giant,
42:43raised India's local and foreign currency ratings
42:45for the first time from stable to positive.
42:48So, the limited point is that the world is recognizing India's mettle.
42:53And let me tell you, B, Standard & Poor's, World Bank,
42:56Moody's, ADB, OECD, IMF, they've all said three things.
43:00A, the reforms juggernaut under the Modi government
43:04has worked wonders.
43:05They've spoken about the insolvency and bankruptcy code.
43:08They've spoken about banking and fees.
43:10Coming from 12% to 2%.
43:12They've spoken about the fact that when the world was reeling
43:16under the COVID crisis, India managed to buck the trend
43:21despite a global black swan event
43:23and is the only economy which has been growing
43:26on the 7% plus trajectory repeatedly year after year
43:31for the last three years.
43:33And I want to end by saying one thing, Gaurav,
43:35that the manufacturing data came out a few weeks back.
43:38Our manufacturing growth is 9%.
43:41Our consumer durables growth is 11%.
43:44Our capital goods growth is 16.9%.
43:48Our IIP growth is 8%.
43:50So, Sanju Barba speaks with data.
43:52But my final point on the...
43:54On the economy.
43:55But the aspect that Mohan Kumar Mangalam raised, ma'am,
43:58was evidence of saying there's foreign funding
44:01or there may be foreign funding in these protests.
44:04Where is the evidence for that, ma'am?
44:05Very quickly.
44:06Very quickly.
44:07Gaurav, let's get one thing very clear.
44:10CAA is anti-minorities.
44:13Rafal, I have been beaten up.
44:16SBI and LIC will go bankrupt
44:18because they have been lending disproportionately to Adali.
44:21These were the three things that were initially peddled by OCCRP,
44:27which is funded by Suros.
44:29After OCCRP came out with these stories, malicious lies,
44:33Rahul Gandhi picked it up and said,
44:35Arre, SBI bankrupt honne waala hai.
44:38Arre, Rafal mein baut bada ghotala hua hai.
44:40Arre, Pegasus software se merer phone ko tap kia ja raha hai.
44:43OCCRP is the biggest example of how Rahul Gandhi recognizes what a foreign outfit says.
44:51OCCRP says we are a non-profit entity.
44:54But they have been saying repeatedly democracy khatray mein hai in India under Modi.
44:59What does Rahul Gandhi say?
45:00Oh, Narendra Modi ke under sambitan aur lokantrato khatray mein hai.
45:04Where do you think he gets his report from?
45:05Mohan Kumar, you want to quickly respond?
45:08Okay, you want to respond to this point?
45:09Where is the response to this?
45:10I mean, listen.
45:11And the point, if I take you to this US report that talks of whether it's unrest in France
45:17or the trouble in India or unrest in India,
45:20it's part of, as this report points out,
45:23a network activity of red-green ecosystem,
45:28French students' actions and demonstrations in India.
45:31Unrest in France visible already.
45:34Is India the next target?
45:35With some saying, street will decide.
45:37There's a systematic effort to tarnish the image of the election commission or the CJI.
45:42And, you know, this repeated facing off with the police, sir.
45:48Kaurav, if there's anyone who's demeaning India's stature on the global stage,
45:52it is the home minister and the manner in which he's using the police
45:55to brutally crack down on citizens who are peacefully protesting.
45:59Number one.
46:00Number two.
46:01I will not insult the collective emotional and perseverance of students who came out
46:10to protest by saying that they were actually paid
46:12or there was some sort of logistical support given to them
46:15which is how they got to the protest.
46:18I mean, you shut down Delhi almost entirely.
46:21You shut down Delhi almost entirely.
46:24Saturday and Sunday.
46:26No metro, no bus, barricades everywhere.
46:27And students still managed to make it.
46:30And why are we only talking about it now?
46:31Why don't you go ahead and say that even the paper leaks protest that was managed by students
46:36or that was mostly led by students from the front is also something that was foreign sponsored.
46:42There's nothing much to what Sanju said.
46:44Sanju spent like 10 minutes talking almost about the economy of our country.
46:49And there are many things I can debate around that.
46:50But this is not a debate on the economy.
46:52This is a debate on whether we have substantial evidence of foreign funding.
46:57No, hear me out.
46:58Hear me out, Sanju Verma.
47:00The BJP has been in power for 12 years and counting.
47:05Strong prime minister, strong home minister, strong NSA, strong intelligence network.
47:10Now, how can a red-green ecosystem operate in India?
47:15What's the government doing about this?
47:18You know, Gaurav, I want to just respond to first what the Congress spokesperson said.
47:23I think, thank God for Narendra Modi, Article 370.
47:28I did not think in my lifetime that would be abrogated.
47:30Today, Valmi Ki community has the right to vote, has the right to stand for elections in Jammu Kashmir.
47:36They were treated like third-class citizens.
47:39Thank God for CAA.
47:40Thank God for Narendra Modi.
47:42Thank God that instant triple talaq was revoked.
47:45Out of 57 Muslim nations, 72% had revoked instant triple talaq.
47:50But the Congress endured that because they are driven by appeasement politics.
47:54So, I don't think the BJP needs lessons in political propriety or constitutional morality
48:00from a debilitated Congress dharbari ecosystem.
48:03But my final point.
48:04But the point I ask.
48:06Effectively, she is calling me dharbari.
48:07I can strike back in any which way, but I am not going to.
48:10Please tell her to mind her language.
48:11Please tell her to watch her words.
48:12Absolutely, request to both my guests.
48:17Request to both my guests.
48:19Please, let's keep this civil.
48:20But respond to the point on how can a red-green ecosystem continue to operate in India.
48:26Go on, ma'am.
48:28Gaurav, my limited point is this.
48:30Where I agree with Mohan, despite the fact that we've had a very cantankerous debate today,
48:36is that, yes, right to peaceful protest is the fundamental right of every citizen,
48:42irrespective of political ideology under Article 19 of the Constitution.
48:46But, Gaurav, that is what I'm trying to focus on.
48:50The same Article 19, which gives Saurabh Das the right to protest,
48:54Ashutosh Ranka the right to protest,
48:56Abhijit Dipya the right to protest,
48:58Rahul Gandhi the right to protest,
49:00Priyanka Vanda the right to protest.
49:01That same Article 19 also said that the right to protest is subject to reasonable restrictions
49:09pertaining to public order, morality and health.
49:13No fundamental right is absolute.
49:15No fundamental right functions in a vacuum.
49:19And do not...
49:19So, Mohan Kumar Mangalam,
49:21Fair enough.
49:22Mohan Kumar Mangalam,
49:23take the specific example.
49:25When we are talking about institutions in our country,
49:28if there are issues, let's say,
49:30with the Chief Election Commissioner,
49:32how can that be addressed?
49:33Through courts of law?
49:35That's the only way.
49:36You may protest on the streets.
49:38But, you know, look,
49:41he was in the CEC in 2014,
49:43as the BJP points out,
49:44when the BJP won in 2014,
49:46or in 2019,
49:48when the BJP came back with bigger numbers,
49:50or in 2024,
49:52where he may have been in Nirvachand Sadhan,
49:54but the BJP's numbers dropped to 240.
49:57Now, the BJP claims Congress is creating ill will
50:01towards democracy in India
50:04by making all these charges,
50:06even though under the same Nirvachand Sadhan,
50:09the Congress has won multiple states,
50:11whether it's Kerala or Karnataka,
50:13Himachal Pradesh or Telangana,
50:14or with coalition partners in Jharkhand and Tamil Nadu, sir.
50:20I've said this before,
50:21but I think it deems worth repeating.
50:24Most developed countries,
50:26which are more economically developed than us,
50:28got the universal adult franchise
50:31or one man,
50:32one vote,
50:32every right to vote,
50:33almost a century after they were formed.
50:36We actually had it at birth.
50:38It is something unique about our country.
50:40And I think the whole,
50:41the manner in which the SIF process has been conducted,
50:44the questions that have been raised every step of the way,
50:47whether those are about centralizing the voter list
50:49and not allowing access to EROs,
50:51whether they are about mass deletions that go unanswered.
50:53It will be decided by courts of law.
50:55One second, one second, one second, Gaurav.
50:57Gaurav, the court itself cannot impeach
51:00the Chief Election Commissioner.
51:03That is the job of Parliament.
51:03Neither can the street.
51:04But when Parliament,
51:06when the way Parliament itself is being formed
51:09is questionable
51:10because the fundamental cornerstone of our democracy
51:14being the voter list is being tampered with,
51:16then what option are you leaving citizens with
51:19but to peacefully protest?
51:21And I want to make this very clear again.
51:24Peacefully protest against...
51:26Fair enough.
51:26If it's peaceful,
51:27if it's peaceful,
51:29there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
51:31It is peaceful.
51:32That is the claim of one side
51:33versus the claim of another side.
51:35Sanju Verma wants to respond.
51:37Gaurav, are journalists engaging in hand-to-hand combat?
51:40Why are they being dragged away,
51:41forcefully by the police?
51:43On what basis?
51:44When is it that journalists are actually dragged away?
51:46Think about it.
51:47It's when the police don't want to see
51:49what they're going to do.
51:54Gaurav, you know,
51:56I have always said
51:57that if our youngsters are being demonized,
51:59then the law of the land
52:01should ensure that they are properly shielded,
52:04protected,
52:04and they are not dehumanized.
52:07But I also said,
52:08men and women in Khakhi,
52:10the ACP of Punjabi Bagh,
52:13Jay Prakash,
52:14was brutally attacked
52:15by goons
52:16at Jantar Mantar 1.0.
52:19ACP Vivek Bhagat
52:20was dehumanized.
52:22A fake AI video
52:23was circulated
52:24saying he had molested
52:25a young woman.
52:26Special
52:27Commissioner of Police,
52:29Anil Shukla,
52:30was brutally attacked.
52:31I want to ask you one thing.
52:33Somebody who's 20 years old,
52:3422 years old
52:35has the right to protest,
52:37yes.
52:37But a man in Khakhi
52:38who's 37 years old
52:40or 23 years old,
52:41doesn't he have any fundamental right?
52:44Dilli police
52:45that you have to kill
52:45the police.
52:46It has to be peaceful.
52:48It has to be democratic.
52:49I've run out of time
52:51on this part of the show
52:52but Sanju Verma
52:53and Mohan Kumar Mangalam,
52:54as always,
52:54many thanks for joining me
52:56and this is the strength
52:57of the Indian democracy.
52:58Everyone has a voice.
53:00Everyone has a right
53:01to be heard
53:02but it has to be peaceful
53:04and any issues
53:05can only be addressed
53:07through courts of law
53:09when two sides
53:11don't agree.
53:12It has to be peaceful.
53:14Streets do not decide
53:16except through their vote
53:18and that's the story
53:19we'll be tracking very closely.
53:21That is all I have for you
53:22on India First this evening.
53:23Many thanks for watching.