- 2 days ago
Bruce Dickinson tells the hilarious and surprising tale of bluffing his way into a solo record deal, writing the 'Tattooed Millionaire' album in just two weeks, and how it all began with the track 'Bring Your Daughter... to the Slaughter'.
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00:00So I'm like, hang on a minute, I've just got myself a worldwide release for an album that we haven't
00:04even written.
00:09So today we're talking about more balls to Picasso, but in specific we're talking about Tears of the Dragon as
00:15a track.
00:16So I think maybe to kick all of this off though, at what point did you first start thinking, you
00:21know, I want to have a solo project?
00:23I'm guessing it would have been sometime in the 80s.
00:25Yeah, I mean, the initial idea, it was by accident, the publishing company that we were published by with Maiden
00:37and everything, Zomber, came to me and said, look, we know that you like to do odd things, you know,
00:45have you got any tracks kicking around for a movie, Nightmare on Elm Street?
00:50That ended up as bring your daughter to the slaughter and I actually contacted Yannick because Yannick was a mate
00:56of mine and he was having a hard time with trying to get a gig, frankly, because he refused to
01:06cut his hair.
01:06You know, he looked like he was from the 70s and they were like, oh, yeah, I know you can
01:12play guitar, but that's not the point.
01:14You don't look right.
01:15And he was so pissed off with it.
01:16He was going to sell his equipment and just go off to uni and become a teacher.
01:21And I went, that's a shame, you know, I thought, well, maybe, maybe if he does that, if he comes
01:29and does this track with me, I'll buy his equipment off him and then that way he won't get rid
01:35of it and then it'll be there in case anything else happens.
01:38So it was just, you know, so we had a bit of fun and I went around the mate's house
01:43and borrowed his acoustic guitar, actually while he went for the toilet and I had to get back and I'd
01:49done this sort of like, you know, ACDC type, you know, tongue in cheek, double entendre, Frankie Howard, whatever you
01:58want to call it, bring your daughter to the slaughter.
02:00I went, bring your daughter, let her go, let her go, let her go.
02:03And he went, yeah, that's quite catchy.
02:05I went, yeah, you know what?
02:06We just put in some like thing and then we'll put in a few chanting monks and a few things
02:11in the end.
02:11We just have a laugh.
02:12All right, let's go with that then.
02:21We went into the studio, recorded it.
02:24Steve heard it and went, I want that for the album.
02:26But then a guy from Columbia Records heard it, which CBS, you know, Columbia, heard the track and went, oh
02:34my God, I love that song.
02:36Do you have any more stuff like this?
02:37And I lied.
02:38I went, oh yeah, yeah, loads, yeah.
02:41And suddenly I had an American record deal on the basis of that one song.
02:48And I realised that I already had, everybody had made and had the right to do at least one solo
02:54album as part of their deal with EMI.
02:56So I'm like, hang on a minute.
02:57I've just got myself a worldwide release for an album that we haven't even written.
03:02We better write it.
03:04So I went to Jan and said, look, let's, do you fancy writing a record?
03:08We've got two weeks to do it.
03:09So we wrote Tattooed Millionaire in two weeks and literally we were just having a laugh.
03:16It wasn't supposed to be a big statement of intent as a solo work.
03:20It was just a collection of different rock styles that we glued together on an album.
03:28So we said, well, we can't be kind of like an ACDC-ish type of track.
03:31There'll be a Stones-y type of track.
03:34There'll be a sort of like a big hair metal type of track, you know, Tattooed Millionaire.
03:40And then the little gem that Jan came up with was Born in 58, which was one of his songs
03:45that he just played it to me.
03:48I went, what's that?
03:49He went, oh, that's probably not, you probably wouldn't like it.
03:51I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, play it.
03:53And that became Born in 58.
03:55It's one of my favourite tracks off the album, you know.
03:58Justice and liberty, you can buy.
04:03So we went in with Chris Sangaridis, boom, did the album.
04:07And lo and behold, we had a couple of singles that they charted.
04:14And the album did 70,000, 80,000 in the UK.
04:17And we did a tour and everything was sweetness and light.
04:20We went to America and did a tour.
04:22And the problem was, now I had to think, if I was really going to do a solo album,
04:28because I did that, but it wasn't really a solo album.
04:32I was like, if I died and they went, yes, and this last thing he did on this earth was
04:37Chattered Millionaire,
04:38I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, not that.
04:42No, it's good, it's fun, but I'd like to do something with a bit more weight to it, emotionally, everything.
04:52So, Rod, my manager, said, why don't you go over to LA and go to this guy, Keith Olsen.
05:02Good night, LA Studios.
05:03Keith had redone, reinvented David Coverdale, if you like, and turned him into this big American radio artist in which
05:12he sounded a little bit like Led Zeppelin.
05:15And didn't sound anymore like the David Coverdale that I loved with Whitesnake.
05:25So, I was a little bit sceptical.
05:27I was just like, yeah, I know he did that, and I know it's really successful, but it ain't Walking
05:31in the Shadow of the Blues.
05:33It ain't, you know, We Wish You Well and stuff like that.
05:36It ain't Ian Pacey and John Lord pumping away.
05:38But, okay, we'll see.
05:41So, I went over to LA and suddenly was confronted with all these session musicians.
05:48I'd never worked with a session musician before in my life, and they're really good.
05:53But, I'm looking for the heart and soul in what they do, not just the, oh, yeah, that's really good,
06:01that's really clever, that's really, but, you know, I paid for that.
06:07I want you to pay for it, emotionally, when you do it, you know.
06:11So, I was missing that, and we were, I did virtually a whole album, which is now referred to as
06:18the Lost album.
06:20I'm not sure it is lost, but it's in bits and bobs all over the place.
06:23So, I chucked that one away as well.
06:26So, I now made, almost made two records.
06:28Yeah.
06:29And Keith had some personal issues.
06:34I think he was going through divorces and God knows what, and a bit of substance abuse as well and
06:39stuff.
06:39So, he kind of disappeared off the project, and the engineer that had been doing it, Shea Baby, took over.
06:46And Shea, different animal altogether, Shea said, I want you to meet this guy, come see this band, Tribe of
06:53Gypsies.
06:54So, I went to see the Tribe of Gypsies, which is Roy Z on guitar, and this great band, incredible
06:59band.
07:00And I was like, wow.
07:01And he goes, yeah, come on and have a chat with him and see.
07:04So, we just started chatting around Shea's house one afternoon, and we knocked out the basis of about three or
07:12four songs.
07:13Like, there, he just got his guitar out and started, not even plugged in.
07:16And I was like, that's a great riff.
07:18That's a great riff.
07:21I said, we should work.
07:23So, that's what became Balls to Picasso.
07:29Some of the stuff, I mean, Tears of the Dragon was already done in one version.
07:34The version with Keith Olsen was not the Jethro Tully version.
07:40I don't think there was another version of it.
07:42Maybe it was a demo or something back in the day.
07:46I mean, the genesis of the song started sometime around Somewhere in Time, and I was trying to get my
07:52head around what I should be doing, you know, and trying to think maybe Maiden should be doing something really
07:58out of the box, really something totally unexpected, blah, blah.
08:01Dickie Flizzar, who is a buddy of mine who played with us on the tour, Dickie's a fabulous drummer.
08:07He doesn't drum anymore.
08:08He's super, super intelligent, like a really musical drummer.
08:15I love musical drummers, you know.
08:18I mean, you can get drummers who are superstar drummers, and they're kind of there in drum world, the whole
08:25gig.
08:25I want drummers who are in song world, the whole gig, you know, who can also do all the stuff
08:30as well.
08:31And Dickie was one of those.
08:33So he came in and just turned that track, you know, all the heavy bits on it, and just drove
08:44that track.
08:44I mean, the tribe came in and did the bass and everything, and Eddie Kosilis on the bass, who then
08:52went on to do all these amazing bass lines.
08:54I mean, Roy gets a lot of credit, which he, fair enough, he did some great solos and everything, but
09:02not enough credit goes to Eddie Kosilis, because some of the bass lines on that album, some of the bass
09:09sounds on that album are fantastic, you know.
09:11So that was how that song ended up.
09:15Now, the reggae bit in the middle is always controversial, because Rod, my manager, was like, oh, you ought to
09:22get rid of that fucking reggae thing.
09:24I said, why?
09:26He goes, well, it's fucking reggae, reggae, isn't it?
09:29I said, and what's your point?
09:32You know, I said, you know, duh.
09:37So we kept it in, and actually, they did a great job on it, and now we keep it in
09:41live, and it's completely, and I still get, you know, things like, oh, I love it.
09:45Why did they keep the reggae bit?
09:47It's like, yeah, because it's kind of cool, and it's kind of different.
09:51It's totally unexpected.
09:52It takes us from somewhere else.
09:59And then it resolves, it's like a little dream world.
10:02It's like a palate cleanser, after the insanity of everything that's gone before, you know.
10:09How did it feel in revisiting it when you did the Morbils to Picasso?
10:13I mean, that orchestral thing is so beautiful.
10:15So, I always would have loved to have heard it with an orchestra, and this guy, Antonio Teoli, is Brazilian,
10:25lives in LA, he's a composer.
10:26I got to know him through Brendan Duffy, who's the producer, who's going to be working on my new album,
10:33who's done all the remixes for Balls, and has been remixed Skunk Works as well.
10:40And we're gradually going to grind our way through what bits of the catalogue we can find in the future.
10:46I think the most extensive, like, remaking of an album is Balls.
10:52We don't need to remake anything on Skunk Works.
10:55We just need to bring out more of what was already there.
10:59Yeah.
11:00And that's another great record, which was controversial when it came out, you know.
11:06Well, there's obviously stylistic differences.
11:08Stylistically different.
11:09Yeah.
11:09But isn't that the whole point of having a solo record, is that, you know, it's an expression of where
11:15you're at at the time.
11:17Let's try this.
11:18And it's a great record.
11:19Oh, my God.
11:20There's such great stuff on that.
11:22How important is Balls to you as an artist, thinks?
11:26It seems to me, like, what you're saying here.
11:28It's very much because it was growing pains.
11:32The problem with the original version of Balls was it was tentative.
11:36It was not full-on enough.
11:40And it's taken us all these years to go, you know what?
11:44Can we make it as full-on as it should have been?
11:47And some of that was because the record label were expecting Tattooed Millionaire Part 2.
11:54Yeah.
11:55No.
11:57But it was almost like the Shea, I think, almost stepped back from making it super heavy.
12:05I think Roy would have liked to have made it heavier, but he was like the new boy, so he
12:09didn't feel like he could push for it.
12:11I was like, I'm not sure what we should do exactly, so I just kind of went with the flow.
12:18So it wasn't a sin of commission.
12:22It was a sin of omission, not making that record as heavy as it should have been.
12:28Some tracks were inevitably heavy, but now they are so much heavier.
12:33Cyclops being one of them, Laughing in the Hiding Bush being another one.
12:38I mean, all of them, Sacred Cowboys.
12:41And then we get to the real oddball one, which is Shoot All the Clowns.
12:53Which was never on the original record in the first place.
12:56And was almost like written to order because of this bizarre request from an American record label.
13:06Because we couldn't get a release for the album in the U.S.
13:13EMI were happy to go with it in the U.K.
13:16The Americans were like, oh yeah, we don't understand this.
13:19It's not heavy metal, it's not grunge, it's not this, it's what is this, you know.
13:23I spent a couple of weeks in L.A.
13:28Waiting to see an A&R guy for this label.
13:32For I think Mercury Records it was.
13:35So I'm waiting to see this A&R guy.
13:37And everything happened to this guy.
13:40You know, first of all, he had an allergic reaction to something.
13:43Blew up like a balloon.
13:44And then the next thing he was like, oh, his mum had died or something.
13:49And then his cat got flu or something else.
13:51And this went on and on and on and on and on.
13:53And in the end I was just like, what the hell is going on here?
13:57And somebody said, oh, don't you know?
13:58I went, no.
13:59I said, oh, he's in rehab.
14:01And they're covering for him.
14:04I went, that is so L.A. but so desperately unhelpful.
14:10So next moment there's a guy from Mercury on the East Coast comes over to L.A.
14:15He's there for a couple of days.
14:18And he says, I think the album needs one more track.
14:22I said, that's going to make a difference, really?
14:26It's really going to make a difference.
14:27Do you have one more track?
14:28It's going to make a difference.
14:29He goes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
14:31He said, look, and let me think about it.
14:35So next day he shoves a cassette of Aerosmith rocks under the door with a post-it note on
14:41it saying something along these lines.
14:48And I'm like, okay.
14:50So same day I go up to the little demo studio we've got.
14:54And I said to Z, I said, Aerosmith rocks.
14:58Something like, and he goes, sort of like, well, sort of like a riff.
15:06And I'm thinking, well, we should have like a, I'm getting a kind of a, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot.
15:14And he goes, shoot all the clowns, dude.
15:17I went, fucking right.
15:18And I went, shoot all the clowns.
15:19And that's how we wrote the song.
15:21And then we, we put the rap bit in it and everything else like that.
15:25Um, we thought, well, let's just go the whole hog, um, recorded it for about three or four
15:32days later, mixed it.
15:34Um, and then I took a red eye flight to New York and with a little dat as was then
15:40little
15:40dat tape in my pocket turned up at nine o'clock in the morning, straight off the flight.
15:45And, um, my manager at the time was Merck Mercurianus, him of hypno, now of hypnosis fame and everything.
15:54Right.
15:54Merck takes the tape and I'm sat in the reception with people looking at him at me going, who
15:59is this person?
16:01You know, uh, and he goes in with the A&R guy, two hours later comes out and the guy
16:07goes, welcome to the label.
16:08I went, what did you fucking do?
16:12You know, um, and he said something ridiculous, like, yeah.
16:16I said, so you like the album now, then it goes, yeah, I guess we never really listened
16:20to it that hard before.
16:23I mean, that's just like one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard, but I'm going to shut
16:27up now because obviously I have a record release in, in the USA.
16:31Um, so yeah.
16:33And then the album came out and Tears of the Dragon was, uh, was actually kind of a hit
16:37really.
16:38Yeah.
16:38I think it was.
16:39It was like, it looked like number 20 in the UK.
16:42Yeah.
16:42And, um, and in, in, in Latin America, I mean, South America is, it was enormous.
16:49I mean, it's like a, it's like in Brazil, it's like their bloody national anthem.
16:53You know what I mean?
16:54It is fantastic.
17:05I mean, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a, it's like a,