- 1 day ago
Jeremy White and Joe DiBiase are joined by Joe Marino, host of the Locked on Bills and Bills Squad shows to break down the Bills disappointing loss to the Patriots. They start by discussing the issues in the secondary, and Marino highlights the lack of time on task as a group as a major factor. They also analyze some of the shortcomings on offense, and Marino explains why Dalton Kincaid needs to be more involved.
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00:00the bill's secondary an issue saw a stat from uh travis yost who posted that the bills net yards
00:06passing allowed per game by league average yep that in the mcdermott era they were only
00:15a tick above league average one time every other year they're good to elite on passing yards allowed
00:23per by league average and this year they are bad very bad so can they get it corrected how does
00:30it happen joe marino of lockdown bills podcast joins us on the western hotline sabers won last
00:35night we're good we're good about that we can talk about that we talked about with joe you know joe
00:39went to the game on saturday and saw them win over the chicago blackhawks so uh you know first hockey
00:45game joe had to be a thrilling experience for you yeah i absolutely loved it it's a great game to
00:52watch live it's physical it's fast and um it was tough to watch on broadcast last night but i am
00:59three for three predicting any time goal scores okay i got another one we had i had oslin last
01:05night so we went quinn uh tage and oslin so three for three i'm on a heater do you want
01:10to give us
01:10tomorrow's right now i want to hear it yeah we can we can make sure we're in on it i
01:14should have come
01:15prepared uh i don't even know who they're playing tomorrow i gotta do some studying yeah who matches
01:20up against dallas the best all right well i'll text you i'll let everyone know what you think about
01:25the matchup i will i'll make sure i text you on that joe speaking of checking the tape how bad
01:31is
01:31it in the secondary for the bills right now how much is it just you know you're concerned about
01:36what is happening versus like concerned about the future and how much work has to be done in the
01:41secondary yeah it's such an interesting dynamic because the rest of the defense has been really
01:46good they're rushing the passer well they're stopping the run very well they're just not
01:50covering well and it's pretty disappointing especially when you think about jim letter and
01:55his pedigree and also just the the players that they have it's it shouldn't be a talent issue right
02:00you've got high draft picks you've got paid veterans guys that you specifically went and got
02:05like a cj garner johnson like a d alford uh you drafted igben osin you know bishop's a good young
02:11player benford's a good young player harrison's the first round pick there's enough talent back there
02:15especially when you're rushing the passer well they're just not very consistent with how they
02:20communicate and play together the patriots did a really good job of stressing their ability to
02:25communicate and play together with a lot of bunch sets a lot of switch releases and you see this
02:30bill secondary they're talking to each other and the ball snapped right they're just not on the same
02:34page and that's got to change and look since i don't really think it's a major talent issue i think
02:41it just comes down to reps and time on task right this is a team that is playing a ton
02:45of zone
02:45coverage we expected them to play a lot more man they haven't they've been very very zone heavy
02:50and that becomes more of a deal where it's about guys playing together and and spacing the field well
02:58and squeezing routes and passing them off and you can tell it's just a disjointed group that doesn't
03:02have time together and jeremy when i think about uh this this offseason training camp in particular
03:08these guys missed a ton of time cole bishop was out from august 8th through august 18th cj garner johnson
03:14was
03:14out from august 1st to august 6th and then again from august 10th to september 1st terrell bernard
03:19missed from august 24th to september 1st max harrison missed from august 6th to august 18th
03:24so you just have a bunch of guys that when they were in the most foundational parts of playing
03:29together and learning the the coverage schemes and and getting those reps they they weren't together
03:33right it mattered a ton that they missed that time especially with it being year one with a rookie
03:38defensive coordinator so i think it's explainable i think they have talent uh but they got to start
03:43turning the page here because it's disappointing to see them function so well rushing the passer
03:47so well stopping the run they just can't cover i want to ask you something specifically about
03:50harrison on harrison on the last play there's been a lot said about that how he could have done more
03:57to go at hunter henry and try to throw himself in there make the stop and you talked about that
04:01a lot
04:01in your episode uh you're all 22 like looking at what he was how he's he's bubbling backwards i want
04:07to ask you about there's there's also a fourth down call where he's pretty far off right and how much
04:13is this exactly the opposite of what we were told harrison was going to be right isn't he the gambler
04:18it didn't didn't i hear things about he's got the speed arrogance where he's gonna have to learn
04:25when to fire and when not and regardless of like the fit in the defense for harrison the selling point
04:31was gambler aggressive and now i've got a jim leonard defense it's supposed to be aggressive as
04:37well so is it about instilling confidence is it technique is it uh with harrison is it about being
04:44more aggressive in in these spots yeah yeah for sure jeremy i i said a million times my favorite
04:51thing about max harrison as a prospect before he was drafted and then after of course the bills
04:55drafted him was that he hunts he hunts the football all the time and um that that hasn't been the
05:00case
05:00this season i think maybe a little bit more as a rookie in the limited time we saw him but
05:05yeah he's not he's not been that player and it to me that that speaks to confidence and maybe a
05:11lack
05:11of confidence and you know within that game you could tell the frustrations were piling up um and um
05:17you know he he wasn't playing very confidently and and maybe that stems from the time that he's missed
05:22and you know the the time not only that he's missed to get comfortable but to get comfortable with
05:27the players around him um so i think that's what it comes down to because that this is not the
05:31player
05:32that um i he showed to be at kentucky and um i think that gives you some hope though right
05:38that
05:38um he's got that in him but from maybe just a uh a processing perspective of handling the flows of
05:46the games uh is maybe where he needs to show some maturity and uh obviously that wasn't the case on
05:51sunday joe the the man versus zone splits so far through the season how the talent that they have
06:00back there do you feel like there is a path to them evolving into that level of defense also i'm
06:07wondering about the communication piece of that like wouldn't it make sense that it would be easier
06:11to communicate if you were playing more man on those certain plays or they just feel like we don't
06:16have they might have been drafted high but maybe we just don't feel confident that these guys can
06:21man up receivers and win those battles yeah i mean um i i think you're right in that it probably
06:29helps
06:29with communication it's not as hard to line up and say all right i got number one to the outside
06:35you
06:35got number two you got number three and then you you run with them right i think that probably does
06:39simplify things but it begs the question why aren't they doing it right um i i've said repeatedly that
06:45while max harrison has speed um he's the zone corner right he played zone in kentucky he was drafted for
06:50his own defense and so maybe there's an adjustment there despite jim leonard telling you that oh yeah
06:55he is a man corner well okay you're also not really running man the bills are uh 21st in in
07:02man coverage
07:02rate uh very very low percentage low like uh 15 of snaps are are man coverage when they're in when
07:10they drop in coverage so um that's interesting i mean i think you could look at benford and say he's
07:15probably more optimized in zone um but it certainly is different than kind of what i expected from this
07:22unit so you know i it forces myself to ask the question why why aren't they running more man and
07:28obviously there there has to be more of a concern with their ability to mirror and match than there
07:33is their ability to space the field in zone which is kind of kind of troubling joe marino joining us
07:39on
07:39the western hotline talking bills patriots and we'll look ahead to the rams a little bit too
07:42during this uh weekly visit joe offensively maybe we find out a plan for dj more in the next couple
07:49of days what the bills might want to do if he's going to practice if they're going to shut him
07:53down my question is more about kinkade here because if they decide to give more time to get healthy
07:59can teams do what new england did and just completely take dalton kinkade out of the game
08:03rendering this offense you know it looked it looked tough again we've seen this offense without an
08:08outside threat and if there's no more kinkade healthy can they manufacture touches for him
08:16because joe brady did talk about that this week after he was really not a factor against new england
08:21yeah uh i mean first of all the patriots have done well this year to to really limit tight end
08:27production against their their defense so i give them some credit there but i think from a bills
08:32perspective it just comes down to and just being more intentional about it and i think it's a little
08:36surprising that in a game where dj more is hurt and then obviously can't finish uh that you're you
08:42know you're not really trying to get the ball more to kinkade um i think there just has to be
08:46more
08:46intent to it the bills are way more up in in 11 personnel in this game up 24 percentage points
08:52than
08:52than where they were in the previous three their 13 personnel rates are declining by the week which
08:58very confusing to me um and i think really the the number that stands out the most to me in
09:04terms of
09:04this patriots game is that on on 36 josh allen drop backs only seven did they move the launch
09:10pound point right you're talking about straight drop backs and so those moving the launch point
09:15plays are the ones where usually uh it's it's optimized to get in a good throwing posture to
09:20get the ball to dalton kinkade and they just didn't do that with enough intent so i do wonder how
09:25much
09:25uh they were counting on dj more to be a factor in this game plan especially with christian
09:30gonzalez not available and i think they struggled to solve that problem as the game moved along and
09:36i think that was kind of my overall theme from this game is that joe brady and his staff just
09:40didn't do a good enough job solving their problems especially compared to new england and i think there
09:44were comparable problems for both teams one one team showed an ability to solve them the other one
09:49didn't and uh that's why the bills lost this game but yeah it's intentionality with getting the ball
09:53to kinkade and it's very surprising to me that uh he only had two targets on sunday last week joe
09:59i know
09:59you told us that you felt like the bills maybe should have leaned into the run game more
10:03against the chargers connor mcgovern told us earlier in the week that he thought that about
10:08this game do you concur that this was another game where they probably should have ran it more
10:13yeah 100 and i feel like both games chargers and patriots uh the bills get the ball and face some
10:20early adversity they james took fumbles in the first half against chargers they go they take the ball they
10:24go three and out and then the patriots go 97 yards for a touchdown the chargers responded with the
10:28touchdown drive and it's like they're they're in this early hole and i feel like they chase it
10:33why i mean you still have like 90 of the game left to play uh there's no reason to chase
10:38it and that's
10:39what's happened the last couple weeks is they felt some adversity early and i think they got away from
10:44what they needed to do because the run blocking has been phenomenal i mean i think you there's different
10:48metrics across the world that are being put out there that just tell you that this run blocking is at
10:52a really really high level especially um you know in the fourth quarter right like the numbers are off the
10:57charts and so i think joe brady's got to figure out that that rhythm with calling the run the
11:02sequencing of calling the run um i i definitely went into the season wanting josh allen to throw the
11:08ball more but uh i i didn't i didn't want it to to be maybe to this extreme i think
11:14that the bills need
11:15to get that sequencing figured out because the run plays are there james cook's a superstar running back
11:20and um they need to lean into that more and balance out their offense because just telling
11:26josh to to well i don't know if they're telling josh to do it but josh allen has a tendency
11:30right now to
11:31to chase it and um that's not when he's playing his best football joe marino on the western outline
11:36joe the left side of the offensive line you know in the run game this team has been pretty effective
11:41running the ball pass protection uh if they're gonna beat this rams team no miles garrett maybe no
11:46aaron donald so the task isn't as tough that said it's still a good defense do they have to also
11:51figure things out on that side of the line because i know you mentioned that the patriots really
11:55isolated dawkins and anderson and felt like they could win by attacking that side yeah 100 um i thought
12:03the chargers did a good job of that as well where you know the bills have a tendency to to
12:06do slide
12:07protections and uh based on alignment of the defense you know both teams have forced the bill slide to go
12:13right and when you do that uh you got man for man on the back side and so that's anderson
12:19that's
12:19dawkins uh for the the two to that side of the of the rush and um you know those are
12:25those have been
12:25the two most inconsistent players for the bills and pass protection this year and um isolating them up
12:31and telling them to figure it out you know look torrance and brown on the other side have played what
12:35about three years every game together um it shows right you can see that dawkins and anderson
12:41aren't there yet and and you know obviously dawkins is such a unique player with his splits and kind
12:45of how how far forward he he aligns and you know that that creates for even bigger challenges with
12:51how you negotiate different uh stunts and twists that they're going to play up front with you because
12:56of that uh that split and so um smart on those teams uh chris o'leary and um and mike
13:02frable and
13:02company uh to isolate those groups and that side and tell them to figure it out and i mean you
13:07saw in
13:08the highest leverage moment of the game the interception that josh allen threw to palm
13:11targeting palmer at the end of the game the picture was fine like when josh allen was in his
13:16drop back that was an open player uh and he's you know he's got to face a free free runner
13:21in his
13:21face because alec anderson's too buried in the in the defensive tackle to be able to switch off and
13:26take the looper um bad communication on that side you get a free runner on josh allen's face he's able
13:31to shrug it off and he reloads and and honestly the picture's still pretty good he just doesn't get
13:36enough on the ball and it's picked off and so um yeah i think you saw in the biggest moment
13:40that that
13:41become an issue and um obviously something they need to improve upon moving forward and you know
13:46obviously not an easy task with what they have coming up this week and next joe looking at what
13:50their receiver group was last week once dj moore went out you got some big plays from keon coleman and
13:56everyone acknowledges that's going way better this season if they've got a play at all without more
14:02how do you feel about the receiver group compared to kind of where they would have been last year
14:07because again coleman is giving them more but you know to the level of a top perimeter receiver i don't
14:14know about that and then there's how palmer has looked so far skyler bell like i don't know how how
14:19would you see that picture if they've got to play at all without dj moore well i i think we
14:24all can
14:25watch this team this year and and know comfortably that they're different when dj moore is on the field
14:31and you know the way that he's able to provide an available target and the juice that he has it's
14:35all there like a multi-level threat so they're not going to be as good but i think that they're
14:39in a
14:39better position than they were last year because of how keon has played to this point that they do
14:44have a healthy josh palmer at this point and then there's the mystery box of skyler bell like that
14:49wasn't there wasn't that mystery box last year what was elijah moore maybe um and so i i think that
14:54creates some intrigue um i think they've shored up some things with their past protection you know
15:00i certainly think dalton kinkade's a factor here um i think they're in better position but
15:05that's you didn't trade dj moore for that right like you you brought in dj moore to elevate that
15:10and i'd certainly like to see this offense with an extended period of time with number two going with
15:15number 17 and um you know we got a little taste of it and i want to see it with
15:19consistency because
15:20i think this offense can be really dynamic if that's clicking looking ahead to the rams how
15:27terrified scared are you the rams have not played great right they're supposed to be a dream team
15:31and they pull out a late win against the eagles and they didn't look great against the niners of
15:36course in australia but you know it's still stafford and a good offensive line right now the
15:42way they've been playing and two of the best receivers in football the best tandem maybe how
15:46tough of a matchup is it for this team whether it's going to be playing you know keep up with
15:51with
15:51the rams offense or if they can get to stafford i made the point earlier that the one loss they
15:56have
15:56is to a quarterback that moved and was able to extend plays and pick up first downs and stafford's
16:01not going to do that so the way this defensive line's playing i don't think it's nuts they're
16:06underdogs but i don't think bill's fans should write off this game myself no i agree obviously and
16:12and um you know i don't think with when you have josh allen as your quarterback then any game is
16:17not
16:18winnable i think it's a very difficult matchup because of exactly what the ram's strengths are
16:22and exactly what the bill's weaknesses are i mean you're talking about a team that in the rams that
16:28are at the second most passing yards in the entire nfl there are three straight games over 300 yards
16:32uh and that includes against denver against philly against a giants defense that's been a lot better
16:37this year um and you know they haven't even had a ton of reps where it's healthy nakua and adams
16:46they're both healthy going into this game and uh really good offensive mine and sean mcveigh that
16:52i think probably will have some good ideas for how to stress this struggling bills secondary and so
16:58that that's where you're concerned and of course it's cross country on the road that's that's an issue
17:03and look the rams defense has been pretty solid this year too they're number two in total defense
17:08um and uh they've they've been especially good against the past they're they're second in the league in
17:13yards per pass play allowed they've given up the second fewest passing yards i mean they've only
17:18given up 582 passing yards this year um or so that those are those are concerning dynamics the bills
17:25are going to have to be able to run the ball in this game they're going to have to maybe
17:29get some
17:29takeaways um but probably going to have to keep pace right they're going to have to score with the
17:34rams they can um but can the bill's defense make a couple plays i think you make a great point
17:39about stafford and his lack of mobility i think that's the quarterback's extending plays i mean
17:44even games the bills have won they against cj stroud they they couldn't bottle him up he was
17:48running around herbert running around of course drake may ran all over the place against this team
17:53golf not much of a runner but right and and still gave up some production but i think
17:57that extra layer that extra dimension probably helped the bills against detroit but um their pass rush is
18:04going to have to show up they're going to have to get some takeaways but ultimately it could be a
18:07track meet and um you'd like to have a full complement of weapons and i'm not sure you know
18:12what the plan is going to be for dj more in this game you know it's it feels really big
18:16because it's
18:16bills rams um two teams that i think most people expect to be super bowl contenders this year
18:23um but uh you know obviously the hype is probably more than the magnitude of the game the one they
18:29lost last week's way bigger than this one right that was a division game this is a cross-conference
18:33game um you want to win it to get some momentum here you'd hate to to suddenly be three and
18:38two
18:38when you were staring at four and oh but um it's going to be a tough tough battle for the
18:43bills
18:43based on their strengths and the bills weaknesses this is also going to set the record this game
18:46for tight end snaps in the game because aren't these like the top two teams and 13 personnel
18:51it was both teams have kind of shifted away the last couple weeks from it i know that there's been
18:56some injuries for the rams but i saw a stat about the rams this morning about like they're the number
19:00one team and percentage of their runs that you know they're not getting contacted by the line
19:05of scrimmage um to what degree do you feel like they're a challenge there like would we even say
19:11they're the toughest challenge of the year i mean they did play a jameer gibbs rushing offense it's not
19:16like they've played nobody yeah i i kyron williams is a good good nfl running back he's not super explosive
19:25but he's very very efficient and then they do have a complimentary back to him now in blake quorum
19:29that does give them a speed element um i think what what makes their rushing offense good uh is
19:37less it's more about the the sequencing and the design of the plays right like sean mcveigh is very
19:43good at building in angles and and working those zone rushes and and introducing extra gaps and um
19:49you know very creative blocking schemes right it's not necessarily that personnel wise you're going to
19:52be blown away by their backs and their offensive line it's that it's it's a good group of personnel
19:57now with a really really good scheme and a really good play caller um and so you know i think
20:02i think
20:03the bills would love for the rams to try to run the ball a bunch against them on monday night
20:07anytime
20:08they run the ball i think that's a win for the bills uh because of you know just how shaky
20:13the
20:13the pass coverage has been joe marino locked on bills podcast joe thanks for the uh chat we'll talk
20:19next week all right guys thanks so much for having me and everything for the bills in terms of injury
20:24reports and everything we might get is delayed a day because it's monday night football so today
20:30is tuesday in that world tomorrow would be wednesday where you get the first practice and injury
20:37designations all that kind of stuff 8030550 quick thing on coleman so we were talking about keon
20:42coleman and you know how the bills receiver group can work if in fact dj moore is unable to play
20:49chris terpasso had some interesting numbers on coleman and where he's aligned in terms of from
20:55the slot or in line you know 23 percent of his routes have been run from the slot or in
21:01line
21:01as a rookie he was slot or in line on 10 percent so that number's way up last year that
21:07was 18 percent
21:08and in the playoffs two percent like they don't they've totally changed how they used him
21:14and he points out that what they're doing by bringing him in the slot or in line or even when
21:20he's the outside receiver in a condensed formation that they're giving him room to operate based on
21:26pre-snap alignment alone this is something that was always in the scouting report for coleman he's
21:32better here than he is out there and chris says just because of what you've seen from coleman this
21:39hundred yard game and what he did the bills should not take this as a lesson that he's ready to
21:43move to
21:43an x or z that's still not it what they're doing with him is what he is you got to
21:47keep using him
21:48here and that's where you know if more doesn't go can skylar bell who maybe has a bit more of
21:55a
21:55profile to get open like that out there or at least play the x or the z a little bit
22:00i mean you're
22:01losing more who is like really the guy but don't expect coleman to go out there and have the same
22:07kind
22:07of success it's still not what he is so i feel like all that makes sense that was the scouting
22:11report
22:12before he played a single snap and now he might be in the right kind of deployment
22:178030550 bell map heating hot and cold i've got to get to nice hot takes and cold takes where i
22:23was
22:23accused by multiple people online of a hot take last night why don't you guys decide what one of
22:31your tweets yeah right a couple people got real mad at me when they were down to nothing i tweeted
22:37something that i was feeling in the building we'll talk about that hot take you guys can decide
22:42uh bell map heating hot and cold when we get back joe kelly's gonna run some takes by us
22:46sometimes is uh it's is lake erie a soup and uh sometimes it's about you know the sabers needing
22:52to make a trade neapolitan ice cream was another one coming up on wgr
22:56you
22:58you
22:59you
23:00you