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Malaysia has lost a remarkable woman today. Allahyarham Tun Dr Siti Hasmah Mohd Ali has passed away at the age of 100. She was a pioneering doctor, an advocate for public health and women’s causes, and the wife of one of the longest-serving prime ministers. What will we remember most about this remarkable woman? On this episode of #ConsiderThis Melisa Idris speaks with Minister of Health Datuk Seri Dr Dzulkefly Ahmad, and veteran journalist, Aishah Ali.
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00:11Hi, welcome back to Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris. It's a sad day for Malaysia today.
00:18Allah Yarham Tun Dr. Siti Hasmah Muhammad Ali passed away today at the age of 100.
00:25She was a pioneering doctor, an advocate for public health and women's causes, and the wife of one of the
00:31longest-serving prime ministers from Malaysia.
00:34So what will we remember most about this remarkable woman?
00:38Well, joining me on the line now is Datuk Sri Dr. Zul Kifli Ahmad, Minister of Health.
00:43Dr. Zul, thank you so much for being on the show with me today.
00:46Talk to us about Allah Yarham Tun Dr. Hasmah. She's a pioneer of public health.
00:52How do you see her, particularly in the areas of maternal and child health, family health as well as community
00:58health?
00:59Tell us about your memories of her.
01:02All right. I must say, Melissa, thank you for having me again as a current, you know, sitting Minister of
01:09Health.
01:10And of course, I have the advantage of not only moving forward, but as well, looking in the past, where
01:21the Illuminary is like Allah Yarham Tun Dr. Tun Siti Hasmah.
01:26You know, it's well ingrained in the history, particularly of public health, of maternal and child health, and on the
01:37welfare of our healthcare workers, particularly of nurses, you know.
01:42Because you must remember that she came on board when she was already practicing pioneering, pioneering Malay women, you know,
01:52entering, you know, into the field of medicine, entering oppression during those areas where few women, much less few Malay
02:02women, had the opportunity to do so, right?
02:04So surely, and of course, and of course, thereafter, fast forward, being the, you know, first lady to our turn,
02:15Dr. Mahathir, that has served, you know, more than two decades.
02:19Her contribution, you know, enhanced further, and it doesn't take many who really understand healthcare or care to really look
02:30into healthcare.
02:31Her powering figure, her pioneering work, you know, is so very memorable and significant to the nation, you know, journey,
02:45particularly of maternal.
02:49And child health, and family medicine, of course.
02:54So, yes, we will, we will be, the nation, particularly of the health, like there were really, her passing is
03:02really such a huge loss.
03:05Although we look back with all the grit and the fondness, you know, memory of two and six months.
03:12Right.
03:13Well, you know, much of her early career was spent in Kedah, where she saw the health challenges, as you
03:18said, of rural women, of children, she saw that firsthand.
03:22And what strikes me the most about that is that she didn't spend her career, she didn't remain in a
03:28hospital setting.
03:29She actually moved into public health.
03:31She looked at education and community work.
03:33That really resonates with me.
03:35So, I'm curious to know, Dr. Zul, what does that tell you about her?
03:39Yeah, I must, I must remind you, Melissa, I must remind you, in the last century, particularly, when we earlier
03:46on already achieved what is known as universal health coverage.
03:50It was her kind of cohort, you know, her kind of team, you know, earlier on, already spending a lot
03:58of time on maternal and child health.
04:02And hence the reason why we were in a way because of her and of course of her pioneering team,
04:11you know, Malaysia was seen as a benchmark for the lower and middle income economy, the LMICs, you know, and
04:19particularly over maternal and child health, you know.
04:24So, so, so, these are, these are where you get to see the pioneering doctors going outreach program, doing, doing
04:32immunization, you know, addressing very basic thing on infectious diseases, public health, and very basic thing on public health, right?
04:44So, it was them that has laid down, you know, the foundation for us to carry on further.
04:49So, we must not forget that, you know, and there are, you know, a lot junior doctors like Dr. Narima,
04:58Arwin, and the rest of the team, you know, many others that I could just quote, who were with her,
05:06you know.
05:06But what I must say that she stands out and many will surely remember her significant and fantastic work right
05:16earlier on, you know, and it has been about 70, 50 over years, right?
05:20Absolutely.
05:22Absolutely. Dr. Zul, so, if we were to strip away the title, the association with Dr. Mahathir, the public persona
05:30of her, what do you think the medical profession should it remember about Allah Erham, Dr. Sitihaz?
05:38You mean in relation to Tun?
05:40Yes.
05:42Yeah, I must say that, yeah, they are both doctors, you know, the most, you know, iconic couple of, you
05:51know, that we want to see and the darling of the nation of sorts, you know.
05:56Right.
05:56And, and despite, and despite, you know, a practicing doctor, you could see that this, this couple has, you know,
06:04live, you know, and Tun, of course, is 100 years old with, you know, with, with Tun Dr. Mahathir is
06:11slightly older.
06:13Right.
06:13But I think that is where this combination of two doctors and how they have served the nation from where
06:20even Tun, Tun Mahathir started as a GP in Kedah, in Alastair, and, and how they, they, they move on
06:27further, you know.
06:28So I think they, they become the iconic couple, especially for doctors who are now struggling, you know, get the
06:36new, the younger families of doctors, you know, especially those separated, you know, Sabah, Sarawak, Semenanjung, and whatnot.
06:44But I think with them, you know, they, they exude and present such a, an embodiment and epitome of, of
06:54an ideal family, not so much of being an ideal family, but how they have expressed and, and, and, and,
07:01and, and, you know, and live it together.
07:03I think from that perspective, I think all, all, all, you know, yeah, the support, the, the support to Tone,
07:13playing second fiddle so well, you know, and, and yet, you know, the combination of, of both, you know, Tone,
07:22Tone Dr. Mahathir and Tone Siti has become one.
07:24But for herself alone, but for herself alone, what should the medical profession itself remember about, Allah, Alhamdulillah, Tone Dr.
07:32Siti Hasma as the remarkable woman she was?
07:35Yes, I think this is the passing of a, of, of a, of a remarkable, I think words cannot, you
07:45know, describe her, her position where she assume, you know, naturally and, and, and, and very unassumingly, you know,
07:54we say it like, you know, she just, she just, you know, she just embodies all the virtues of a
08:01mother, of a, of a doctor, a wife, you know, and, and a friend to many, especially to, for, for,
08:12for, for us in the, for us in the, in the healthcare sectors, you know, she, she present herself as
08:17so lovable, you know,
08:21and, and inspirational, very motivational, Melissa.
08:25Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Zul. That was Dr. Zul Kifli Ahmad there. And joining me on
08:32the line now, I have veteran journalist Aisyah Ali.
08:35She was part of an 11-woman delegation that accompanied Allahyirhamdun Dr. Hasma to Iraq in the year 2000 to
08:44assess the humanitarian effects of sanctions on women
08:47and children there. Aisyah, thank you for joining me on the line. Aisyah, when you think back about that trip
08:52to Iraq then,
08:54what do you remember about Allahyirhamdun Dr. Hasma? What did you see in her that, that told you how deeply
09:02she felt those experiences
09:04and how that affected her?
09:07I have to say that it was such an honour to have been chosen to accompany her and to cover
09:15that, that assignment.
09:18It was a delegation of 11 women, including a journalist and a photographer.
09:24When I was invited, she called me himself, herself. And that's rare, you know. And when she said,
09:32this is Hasma, Hasma, I said, you know, very early in the morning, Hasma. Don't Hasma, is it? Yes.
09:40And then she said, Aisyah, would you like to, I am going to take a group of women,
09:47Bhakti, some academics and some doctors, kind of us, will be going to Iraq and to look,
09:55we've been asked by Don Mahathir, of course, to look at the effects of the sanctions,
10:02the UN sanctions on women and children. At that point, the sanctions had gone on for two years,
10:09I think, and 500,000 babies had lost their lives due to lack of medicine, lack of good food,
10:22fat water supply, you know. The sanctions had prevented them from getting a normal life,
10:30not just women and children, but the civil society of Iraq. So we were going to Baghdad,
10:37and she said, can you come for a briefing? And then at that briefing, I remember one morning
10:43when we had to go to Wismaputra, I think the briefing was at Wismaputra, she reminded always women
10:50that please do not bring colourful clothes, do not bring jewellery, we are going to a war-torn country.
10:57So all of us, it's so funny because we're, so we, okay, we took, you know, at that time,
11:03planes cannot land in Iraq, in Baghdad, so we had to take, we had to take a plane to Jordan
11:10and off to Baghdad by car. It was a 14-hour journey, but because we were accompanied by police,
11:20it was 10 internal hours we got there. So the itinerary was told to us, the first day we were
11:26going to see the Prime Minister. And then, and she said, tomorrow morning, I'm going to give you
11:32the first thing. She is so, she was so disciplined. She was so committed to doing a good job.
11:40So, so our task was just to look at hospitals, children's hospitals, old folks home, and to talk
11:50to women's groups. There was a huge association of women, like NCWO, like our NCWO, the national,
11:58and we were also, oh, we were also talking to UN experts, two UN experts, and actually after that,
12:07one of them resigned, you know, because they couldn't take, they felt the, the injustice
12:12that was done to Iraqis. He was there on the last day. He, he was, yeah, he actually resigned
12:20and, but he, he, he, he stopped. He waited for us to talk to us. And so we, so every
12:30day
12:30there was this, uh, the itinerary was, it was, uh, uh, uh, first visit was of course the Prime
12:38Minister. Um, and, uh, she, she passed away, right? Right. And after that, um, we, we, we went
12:47to hospital after hospital after hospital and, uh, the orphanages. I just see that. Yeah. Yeah.
12:55I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but we are running out of time and I do want to ask you
12:58about what
12:59you saw today. Cause I know you were at the, uh, Masjid Al Sharif in Sri Kembangan today,
13:04um, earlier today, and I wanted to ask you what you saw, what you heard at the mosque that told
13:10you just how deeply people are feeling the loss. Um, the mosque was packed by just about everybody.
13:19You could see ministers, corporate leaders, just mingling with ordinary people because there is no
13:28class here. I mean, there is no segments or like you could see here, you couldn't sit there. And
13:34Don was being, uh, greeted and give up a paid condolences to by all kinds of, or every, every
13:41walk of, uh, society. Yeah. And, um, that showed how much she was loved. Don Hasma was so much
13:51loved by everyone. She is actually her mother. She's a mother figure to all of us. Right. And
13:59she, uh, she, uh, Pani, uh, embodied, um, love, admiration. I mean, she speaks for women's rights.
14:09She, um, she's not afraid. She's to speak out her convictions. And she's, she has always that
14:16courage to speak out what she thought. And she's, uh, she was, uh, very supportive of women's activism.
14:25And that's what, uh, one of the things, because I was editor of the women's desk. And that was why
14:32I had gone with her to Beijing. I was covering Beijing conference in 1995 is the fourth world
14:39conference on Beijing. And that was, she was the head of the Malaysian delegation. And she made a
14:45pledge to make, to make sure that women's, or women's empowerment, women's rights to health, to,
14:53to, you know, all the, the 10, uh, 10 of action that, that was put in place in, in that,
15:01uh, in the,
15:02at the end of that, the, that, that conference. Yeah. And it made us all proud. Like I was proud
15:09to be, to when, where she led us in, uh, Baghdad, where she, um, you know, she genuinely,
15:19you know, uh, met mothers and babies. And secretly we were not supposed to do it, but we brought,
15:29she made sure the doctors in the group brought medicines for each hospital. So after every visit,
15:36we were given, uh, we, she presented a box, big crates of medicine, of medicine. And I remember
15:43interviewing a mother with, um, uh, a child who was dying. Her name was Amal. I remember that so,
15:51so well when the doctor told me, uh, uh, that she, she might, she might be dying. And then after
15:59that,
15:59when the, the medicine was given to, to the, to the hospital, the doctor told, told, told, you know,
16:06that child that you saw with this antibiotics, she will live, you know, and, and that made me
16:12so happy. Yeah. That's, that's CTS more for you. Yeah. Aisha, thank you for sharing that story.
16:18That was really lovely. Thank you for sharing your memories of her with us tonight. That was
16:23veteran journalist, Aisha Ali, wrapping up this episode of Consider This. I'm Melissa Idris
16:28signing off for the evening. Thank you so much for watching and good night.