- 10 minutes ago
Dan Quinn updated the Jayden Daniel situation today by saying he's seeing another specialist. Many of the signs seem to indicate he may be trying to avoid going on the IR. Will he be back sooner than we think?
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00:00Welcome back, Grant and Danny on the fan, brought to you by the law firm Kondori & Murad,
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00:18And mention the show, you'll get a discount.
00:20That's kmlawyers.com.
00:22By the way, we should tell people, we got a live show on Friday out and about.
00:27The field trip is on the road, and we are going to be in Reston.
00:32Charbar, baby.
00:33We love these people.
00:35Now, I will say, when we go in there, it always feels a little bit, for a split second, like,
00:42are we sure they want us here?
00:44Yes.
00:44It's so nice.
00:45It's a very nice hotel, I think at JW Marriott, right?
00:50Bar in the lobby, like, restaurant area.
00:53It is beautiful.
00:54The food is awesome.
00:55Everybody's so friendly.
00:56It's really nice.
00:57Classy.
00:58Yeah.
00:59And then we show up.
01:00And that part is weird.
01:01But they're very welcoming.
01:03They want our listeners.
01:04They want you to wear your burgundy and gold.
01:05They want you to treat it like a sports bar and sit there and have your smoked old fashions,
01:10which, by the way, smell and look delicious.
01:12But this is an elite.
01:15It's really nice.
01:16Elite setup.
01:18The food, the bar, like, it is about as classy as we get.
01:21Everything we've had there has been a smash, including the big, giant chocolate footballs.
01:25Yes.
01:26They got for us the first time.
01:27Remember when they did that?
01:28Yeah.
01:28That was amazing.
01:29And we're like, really?
01:30We can have this?
01:31They're like, yeah.
01:32And you can eat it.
01:32Like, what part?
01:33It.
01:33All of it.
01:34All of this giant chocolate football with little footballs on it and everything.
01:37They have a whole room of cheese.
01:38I don't think we talk enough about that.
01:40What room is that?
01:41The cheese room.
01:42What's in there?
01:42Different kinds of cheese.
01:44All the cheese is in the cheese room.
01:46Why do they have a room just with cheese?
01:47It's a room for the cheese.
01:49It's a room just for cheese.
01:52Not far from the kitchen.
01:53Yeah.
01:53Which is near the bar, which is where we sit.
01:55Yep.
01:56But I don't want anyone to be nervous or scared.
01:59Like, you can come in your khaki shorts.
02:00Yes.
02:01And your polo.
02:02Yes.
02:02Or your t-shirt.
02:03Mm-hmm.
02:03Or your jersey.
02:05There were people last year that were partying, sitting there in their basketball jerseys with
02:09no shirts under them.
02:09You can do whatever you want to do.
02:12It's just, they normally, I think, have a standard.
02:16And when we're there, they lower the standard for us.
02:18They relax the standard for Friday afternoons when we're there.
02:21Field trips.
02:21Yes.
02:22People.
02:23It's going to be a good time.
02:24It's awesome.
02:24Charbar.
02:25This was Ian Rappaport on Jaden Daniels and the fact that they are hoping to avoid injured
02:31reserve.
02:31This is the latest update we got yesterday, because I know this is crazy.
02:35Dan Quinn today kicked the can down the road again, saying Daniels is seeing another
02:39Oh, was Washington coach Dan Quinn did that?
02:40Yeah, they've seen another specialist.
02:42Huh?
02:42This was Rappaport yesterday.
02:44He's still going through opinions to try to make sure he does the absolute 100% right
02:49thing.
02:49And, you know, the fact that he had a similar injury last year, they're going to be cautious
02:53anyway.
02:54Obviously, they're going to go through opinions anyway, but you just want to be absolutely
02:58sure.
02:59Marcus Murriott is expected to start.
03:01I would expect him to start multiple games.
03:05I don't think that would be a surprise to anyone.
03:06I think the biggest decision for the commanders is, does Jaden Daniels go on injured reserve?
03:11Hopefully not.
03:12Or does he have a chance to come back in that four-game window?
03:15Hopefully.
03:16You know, that's sort of the...
03:17If he did, he'd probably come back with a brace on his left arm, which is like, not
03:22ideal.
03:24But your friend J.J.
03:25Watt played with a brace on his arm for years and is going to the Hall of Fame.
03:28So, like, I think he'll be okay.
03:30Yeah, TN quarterback.
03:30But yeah, I would expect to see Marcus Murriott for at least a couple games.
03:35That's Ian Rappaport on ESPN.
03:39A couple things out of that.
03:42First, the idea that the injured reserve being avoided is a possibility.
03:47That would mean that he will be back within four weeks.
03:49It's the only reason that you wouldn't put him on IR.
03:52The fact that that's even in the conversation tells you that the severity of this is not
03:57significant.
03:57Which is incredible, given how it looked.
03:59Yeah, it's not an end-of-season thing, right?
04:01It's a, is this going to last a month thing?
04:04Could he be back in three games after London, coming back stateside?
04:09Or do you wait until the fourth game?
04:11And if you're doing that, should you just put him on IR and give him one more week?
04:14Those are the types of things they're considering.
04:16Quinn today said that he's getting another opinion.
04:20And I had a question come in from a listener named Frank.
04:23Shout out to Frank.
04:25At Grant H. Paulson Instagram.
04:27He slid into the DMs and he said, are you worried that he keeps having to see more specialists?
04:31Quinn today saying he saw another specialist.
04:33His point is, is it possible that the team is telling him, hey, we want you to have the
04:38surgery, and he just keeps going from one specialist to another until someone tells
04:42him he doesn't need to have the surgery?
04:44Utterly speculative.
04:46That was his question.
04:47I guess that's possible.
04:49I have no idea.
04:50But I have to imagine that the team has not been advocating for surgery based on Schefter
04:56in his initial report going back to Monday, saying that he thought he could avoid surgery.
05:02Who's he talking to?
05:03It's not Jaden Daniels.
05:04It's not the agent for Jaden Daniels.
05:06It's the team.
05:07And his initial thought was, no, he didn't say Daniels doesn't want to have surgery, but
05:11he made it sound like he would be able to avoid surgery.
05:13So if the team is adamant that he has the surgery, I don't think that would have been Schefter's
05:18tone the day after, the way I'm reading the tea leaves.
05:21Okay.
05:22Again, we're doing this dance again, right?
05:24Where it's a he said, he said, he might have said, we did this all last year.
05:28We're very well rehearsed in this, right?
05:30Where we can't get an update from the team for whatever reason, because they don't want
05:33to set expectations in a certain way.
05:35So the net is, I co-sign with what you're saying.
05:39I agree with you in the sense that the timeline is fluid, but not super long, right?
05:49In other words, he's not playing this week, probably not playing next week, but then it's
05:53kind of nebulous.
05:54We're doing that kind of nebulous stance again, right?
05:56Where we're not doing any kind of long-term thing.
05:58But my question is, do you think him seeing more and more specialists is a possible indicator
06:04that the team is saying one thing and he's looking for doctors to say something else?
06:09Or do you just think it's normal to go see three specialists in 72 hours?
06:12I honestly have, this is going to sound very negative.
06:16I honestly have no idea with them when it comes to injuries.
06:19So I don't know.
06:21They are going to do the thing and they've proven that in the past, talking about the
06:24team now, the org.
06:25Whatever the exact minimum and even less sometimes with some workarounds they can do to share
06:30any info in that regard to help set expectations, they're going to do.
06:34So I don't know.
06:35I honestly don't know how many specialists.
06:36I don't know if one special is in LA, one's in South Florida.
06:39I don't know if one's in Tallahassee and one's in Maine.
06:41I have no clue.
06:42I also think there's sometimes a way that you just kind of build in to not have to give
06:47any information.
06:47I think that's what this is.
06:48And I don't necessarily think you lie, but maybe you don't have all the data.
06:52John Harbaugh's doing this with Jackson Dart every time he speaks.
06:55You just keep passing the buck another day, another day, and eventually you got to pay the
07:00piper and say something.
07:01But if you just say, yeah, we're still getting opinions like Harbaugh's doing, or he's still
07:05seeing specialists, maybe there's something to that.
07:08You know, maybe you're not, you don't have another appointment, but maybe he had one
07:11yesterday afternoon and you just kind of say whatever you have to, to not give any information.
07:16This was Rand Carthon, who we had on the show, actually, when he was on CBS talking about
07:22Jaden Daniels and his durability concerns coming out in the draft when Carthon was putting together
07:28a draft board.
07:29When I think about the injury and particularly both of those elbow injuries that he suffered
07:33and no one is out there trying to get hurt or hurting themselves.
07:37But this is where everyone had a concern with Jaden Daniels coming out in terms of his stature
07:43and his build and his longevity.
07:45If you go back and you listen to a lot of the drafting, people were like, at that size,
07:49I don't know if he's going to be able to hold up, right?
07:51Because he ran around, he uses his legs, which he did a good job of today extending drives
07:57for him, but both of those were like non-contact, right?
08:01Or at least the one today where you just put it down.
08:04And this is where hopefully after this injury, right?
08:07Because it looked pretty gruesome from our vantage point.
08:11This is where Jaden now has to take a step back and say, hey, let me work on my body,
08:15right?
08:15Let me work on my body.
08:16Let me bulk up.
08:17Let me get stronger.
08:19Because the way he plays the game, he's going to always use that offhand to break his fall.
08:25And if you now got to run the risk of every time you're putting your hand down,
08:29that your elbow's going to snap, that's going to play mentally in his head.
08:33But he's got to develop his body.
08:35He's got to get stronger.
08:36He's got to add more weight on so he can withstand these type of things.
08:41Do you feel like that is a relevant critique to these injuries?
08:44Because I do, and a lot of people don't.
08:47Let me ask this in a cleaner way.
08:49When Carthon, and we're going to play a clip from Nate Tice about his size in a second as well.
08:53When these analysts come out and say, see, this was the concern before the draft.
08:58A lot of Commanders fans that I've seen are pushing back going,
09:01what in the heck does his frame have to do with him having this fluke elbow pop out thing?
09:06Or why would his frame matter to a weird elbow injury?
09:10This isn't about him being landed on and his rib breaking two years ago
09:14or his collarbone breaking or something.
09:16I think limbs are also smaller, you know, potentially.
09:20Look at Emmanuel Forbes when we talk about his diminutive size.
09:24The fact that he's an undersized guy.
09:26We didn't talk a lot about frames, so maybe that's the word that bothers people.
09:29But the issue with Emmanuel Forbes, I almost called him Emmanuel Legs.
09:32Emmanuel Forbes when he came out was that Emmanuel Forbes looked like a player at his position
09:38and weighed a weight at his position.
09:41There was no precedent for someone thriving in.
09:43Daniels, similarly, that was the knock, right?
09:46He's 205 when he builds up for the combine, essentially.
09:49He probably plays at less than that.
09:52And if you look at the history of the league, guys that are his height and that weight,
09:55meaning that very slender profile, there's not a track record of those guys being able
10:00to succeed at the position and stay healthy.
10:02A lot of people are going, yeah, but it's his elbow.
10:04That has nothing to do with the frame.
10:05I think the size of your arms and your legs is completely related.
10:09Now, there are so many caveats that apply here.
10:11There are incredibly muscle-bound, or whatever you want to call it,
10:15guys that are strong as oxes that get hurt too, right?
10:18And that's not a frame thing.
10:20That's just some bad injury look or whatever.
10:22But in general, of course there's impact.
10:24Of course there is.
10:25And listen, the idea when Carthen goes, he's got to bulk up.
10:29He still does, but he gained approximately 8 to 10 pounds of muscle this offseason.
10:33That was one of the stories.
10:34This is one of my issues is he's already done it.
10:36Yeah.
10:37How much weight do you think?
10:38You think he can just touch a button and add 20 pounds to this frame?
10:40That's not how it works.
10:41No, no.
10:41If he goes on vacation with me, maybe he could, but he has a metabolism.
10:45He still wouldn't.
10:46He does need more mass.
10:48I think that's a thing.
10:49But even still, that's not foolproof, I guess is kind of the point.
10:52Also, can he add more mass?
10:54I'm sure there's some.
10:56But again, he can't do a Latimer from the program.
11:00He can't show up 40 pounds heavier and now look like Josh Allen.
11:03He'll never be that.
11:04That's not who he is.
11:05We just had the offseason going into the camp where everyone talks about how much bigger
11:08he looks in pictures.
11:09I don't know if there's another one of those.
11:11If he could play at 214 or 219, I'll bet you he'd already be doing it.
11:16It was supposedly one of the, it didn't cost him in the draft necessarily, but it could
11:20have, right?
11:21You don't think every, he's heard that since he was 130 pound high school quarterback.
11:25That's what he was, by the way.
11:26You don't think he would have wanted to add some mass then?
11:28Like, yeah, it's probably really hard for him to do.
11:31This is Nate Tice, who's the Yahoo Sports draft analyst, really sharp football guy, talking
11:37about Daniels.
11:37And this is what I get back to.
11:40And like, this can be interesting with Trinidad Chambliss too.
11:42You know, who I love.
11:44I really do as a prospect, but I'm also realistic about his age and his bulk.
11:49And it's arbitrary, but I always use 205, 205 pounds.
11:54And that's what scared me as Jane Deons as a prospect, because his playing style was, he
11:59is one of the, he's the highest scramble rate in college and it's carried over to the
12:04NFL.
12:04And that's such a part of his effectiveness, but in the history of time, no guys hold up.
12:10It's just, it's facts.
12:12No guy holds up with that many hits and he takes hits.
12:15He took hits today.
12:16Sometimes he's going to be, I saw a slide that it was really funny on one.
12:19He slid and I could tell he didn't want to.
12:21And he was like, ah, ah, and then he like, kind of like, it was like a regretful slide.
12:25I don't know how to put it, but it's, I looked and this is, I'm, I just pulled up my
12:30prospect
12:30write-up on him.
12:31You can check this out on Yahoo.
12:34So under 205, he was listed at 6'4", too.
12:37So it's not like he's, like Trinidad Chambliss is, like 5'11", 7'8".
12:41Yes.
12:42So 6'4", I'm 6'5", and I'm 100 pounds, you know, so it's, you know, but with him, he's
12:49under 205.
12:50So since 2000, there have only been five quarterbacks under that weight to have a single
12:56season starting 14 or more games.
12:57This was before Jane Daniels played.
12:59That list consists of Aaron Brooks, Kirk Cousins, Doug Flutie, Jeff Garcia, and Bryce Young.
13:05Jeff Garcia is actually my Trinidad Chambliss comparison.
13:08So those, like, not only just was there not a lot of history there, it's a lot of guys
13:14that, you know, are also a little shorter.
13:18Density.
13:18Way more dense.
13:19Way more dense.
13:22That's Yahoo, and that's Nate Tice.
13:24Again, I think I've seen a lot of Commanders fans suggesting this has nothing to do with
13:28the frame.
13:28I just don't agree with that.
13:29I think it's asinine.
13:30Because, again, what people will do, a straw man, they'll go, Jackson Darts, 225.
13:35He's out for the year.
13:36Ha ha, I got you.
13:37Nope, you didn't.
13:38Yeah, that's not the point.
13:39He got sandwiched between two cannibals, you know, going the wrong directions.
13:43Tom Brady, who's, you know, not a scrambler, was out for the season.
13:47Quarterbacks get hit.
13:48There's a difference between a frame issue where, can you break a twig?
13:53Now take a stick.
13:54That's 10 times the stick.
13:55You snap that in half?
13:56Unless you're Bo Jackson?
13:57Yeah, go ahead and do that.
13:58You're telling me frame doesn't matter.
14:00I say you're a crazy person.
14:01Other players getting injured isn't the same thing as talking about our guy and his frame.
14:07Again, that's not me being critical of Jaden Daniels.
14:09I love the dude.
14:09But it is an issue.
14:11Jason McCourty on ESPN's Monday Night Countdown talking about Daniels needing the injury gods
14:18on his side.
14:19He thinks basically this has been bad luck.
14:21And the only way forward for him is if he has better luck moving forward.
14:25And there are guys who early in their career had a few things happen and then they just
14:30had luck on their side after that.
14:31I think right now you're just trying to pick the pieces up and get through the next week.
14:35And I think it's too early to assume when Jaden Daniels is going to be back.
14:39I think for Dan Quinn now it's rallying the troops similar to what you did last year around
14:44Marcus Mariota.
14:45I think in the long run you look at Jaden Daniels.
14:47It's a freak accident.
14:49I hate to hear people sit there and look at him and say it's something that he caused
14:53because his foot got stepped on and he just didn't land the right way.
14:56That isn't something that as an athlete you can prepare for.
14:59This is just something that has happened, a freak accident within the course of a game.
15:03And the hope is that the injury gods will be more on his side when he comes back out.
15:08There's no doubt you need a little bit of luck here too, right?
15:11I mean, there are other better strategies than just crossing your fingers, but I'd like that
15:16one as well.
15:17I mean, here's some examples.
15:19If he connects with Traylon Burks on that deep shot where Burks is open earlier in the
15:24drive, this play doesn't happen.
15:27If Terry McLaurin catches the touchdown in the back of the end zone, a little bit of a hot
15:31throw, but it's perfectly right there at his hands and he can't make the catch, this play
15:35doesn't happen.
15:35If Daniels sees John Bates in the paint two yards from the goal line on the play that
15:40preceded this snap, that play doesn't happen.
15:43And you could say, well, the next time he puts his arm down, it gets hurt.
15:47Not necessarily.
15:47He put his arm down.
15:48I went back and watched some of the times where he got down.
15:50He braced himself with that same arm a couple times earlier in the game.
15:53It's not like every single time he's ever done that.
15:56It snaps.
15:56It's the perfect amount of torque and twist and how the arm goes down and where it's at.
16:02So he could have just been coming off of a four-quarter masterpiece where they win a
16:06shootout in overtime, 43-40, and we're talking about him being all the way back and the offense
16:11being on its way and ascending right now.
16:14If they just hit on one of those other plays, or maybe it's as simple as, honestly, remember
16:18the bad pitch back to Bill, the drive before this?
16:24So maybe on that you get seven instead of three, and now you get to kick the three points,
16:31the field goal, just to tie the game.
16:33And there is no going for it, because to tie the game, you send the field goal unit out.
16:36And he's not out there on fourth down.
16:38If any of those little things would have been different, this play doesn't even happen.
16:42And maybe someone would say, hey, he would have gotten hurt next week.
16:45I guess, possibly, but we don't know.
16:47So I'm saying some luck's got to be on his side, too.
16:49I smell that.
16:50I mean, I guess my view is, because that was such a nothing-burger play, this was a
16:55ticking time bomb, right?
16:57But I understand the point that it took a freak occurrence.
17:00It's butterfly effect, right?
17:01If any of those other plays go correctly, they don't have the ball in that spot, or you score
17:06on the second down, or whatever.
17:08You're totally right.
17:08I get your point.
17:09It's not provable in any way.
17:10Of course.
17:11Because my point is, I felt that way, and I went back and watched some of how he's gone
17:16down, and there are other plays where he lands on his arm seemingly harder, and it doesn't
17:21pop out.
17:21I think it's a...
17:22Both times have been really awkward, where his arm is at a weird angle, when you look
17:27at it, close to his hip.
17:28Yep.
17:28And it was just like the...
17:29I think you have to fall in a really strange way.
17:31It probably isn't happening with your momentum running.
17:34It's happening while you're tripping or something.
17:36I don't know.
17:37But I'm not saying it's the plan.
17:41It's just, fingers crossed that he doesn't get hurt.
17:43I'm just saying, have a plan.
17:45It could be 10 prongs.
17:47It could be 10 bullet points.
17:48And also, it would be nice if he had more injury luck moving forward.
17:52I'm just adding that to the equation.
17:54Totally part of it.
17:55Yeah.
17:55I don't love the...
17:56Because here's what I feel like is happening as everything starts to swirl.
17:59Their plan is, yep, we'll be back in a few weeks, and we'll brace it up, and here
18:04we go.
18:04Like, nothing's different.
18:05More from the Jaden Daniels audio vault from around the country as everybody had thoughts
18:09on what happened to the five car this week.
18:12You're listening to Grant and Danny on the fan.