- 6 weeks ago
Two-time Oscar winner Mahershala Ali sits down with GQ's Zach Baron to discuss fatherhood, the gap between being hired and being heard, and why success doesn't always deliver what you think it will.
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00:00You're a two-time Oscar winner. Yeah, it's crazy to hear you feel like the industry doesn't understand me
00:05And also I get hired and not listened to it happens trust me
00:10Trust me
00:22Mahershala Ali yes, two-time Oscar winner a film called Moonlight film called Green Book
00:28High school basketball star you may be familiar to people from your work on television and Rami and true detective
00:34Yeah, leave the world behind great performance great film. Thank you. The new movie is called your mother your mother
00:40your mother
00:41Mahershala, you welcome to one more question. Thanks for doing. Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's great to
00:46be here. We have
00:48Met once twice before little history little history in 2016
00:54I interviewed you for GQ. I think it was a week after Moonlight came out. Yeah
00:59We were in Venice. Yeah, in my memory what I remember is it was just it was like still quiet.
01:05Yeah, what do you remember about that time?
01:08Yeah, it was like the first trimester of of almost giving birth to yourself on a certain level just
01:16I
01:17It was just quiet and
01:18And I could feel and see the potential I kind of knew what we had
01:24I think everyone felt like we had done something special we felt like we when we were shooting it it
01:29felt special, you know, and so
01:32start to experience
01:34People experiencing it was really beautiful because it kind of felt like you had this secret that was
01:40starting to be shared and people were all kind of feeling similarly about it
01:45So it was a really it was a really beautiful time because it was just so ripe with potential and
01:50someone like myself
01:51I wasn't new to the business
01:53I've been around for my first movie was curious case of Benjamin Button, which was
01:58Which I shot 10 years before prior to that. So it wasn't necessarily like new to me, but I think
02:04that there was so much
02:07Um energy on my end and anticipation
02:10Because I kind of felt like finally I was in something in a part of something where everything was sort
02:17of felt like it was going to align and
02:19That essentially had
02:21Yeah, well, I saw you later that fall
02:24I think I think you came to like a GQ party or maybe it was like some awards thing and
02:28I felt like every time I saw you that fall
02:30You were like slightly more tired
02:33Slightly more days probably slightly thinner slightly thinner
02:38I think I was like
02:40I'm watching someone's life change in real time. Yeah, yes
02:43Yes, and then I had a baby on the way to where like my wife was pregnant, you know, so
02:48it was like
02:49Because my daughter was born four days before the award. Yeah, so yeah, that was there was a lot a
02:55lot happening
02:56Do you remember like your mind state like where you were you like when I say your life was changing?
03:01Was it changing for better?
03:02I think it was definitely changing for the better, but it I think it
03:07That type of change challenges everything and everyone around you, you know, because in what way?
03:12It's a funny thing because people will say oh don't change right to anyone who has some sort of
03:19Huge experience or there's this expectation for you not to change
03:22But when you realize very quickly that everything around you changes, so it almost be like if you're living life
03:28in winter and then suddenly
03:30It's 90 degrees outside if you don't take that peacoat or parka off like you actually will look crazy
03:36You will feel crazy and be crazy as a result of not changing so that you might need to know
03:43what to let go of or what to put on
03:45So that you can actually be sane in the environment because you are not permitted to continue to approach things
03:51the way that you approach things before because
03:53The world around you is different and so I just think there's a little bit of
03:59Shock around just how different the world started to feel and I had to give myself permission to
04:05To sort of like follow my instincts within that and i'm still
04:11Adjusting and adapting
04:13to things as a result of how
04:15Different my life sort of
04:18Became and you were 42 I think yeah, because it's like oh, you know
04:21Like i'm a fully formed here if you're 22. It's like it's like whatever. Yeah, but 42 that's that's
04:27A big change out of out of at a already formed
04:32Yeah, a hundred percent you've been acting like 16 years at that point already and I think thank you compared
04:38to you
04:38He's like it was like holding a sneeze in for 16 years. Yeah, I mean what was that feeling like
04:43like and when did you kind of let it go?
04:47I think in in some ways
04:50I'm probably just now starting to like
04:54Let certain things go because I think i've begun to let go of my expectations of the world and the
05:00business
05:01It's kind of like you're fighting with people to see you how you see yourself
05:05And like even when they start doing that you realize like you still don't get it
05:10And like you're constantly trying to explain yourself to people or explain your taste or explain your instincts
05:16And people are hiring you for your instincts, but then like not respecting your instincts and think so
05:21Part of me. I feel like there's been this larger letting go as of late and giving over
05:27more so to
05:29The things I can control and let go letting go of the things that I can't control I have
05:37I think a lot more clarity
05:39Around things I want to do the type of people I want to work with so I think now moving
05:44forward
05:46Um
05:48I think my internal gps
05:52Just
05:54Just feels this feels a little
05:58Feels like I can locate where I want to go
06:00It's crazy you're a two-time oscar winner. Yeah, it's crazy to hear you feel like the industry doesn't understand
06:06me
06:07And also I get hired and not listened to it happens trust me
06:12Trust me
06:13If you represented me you'd get sick of hearing me being like they're not listening
06:17Not only yeah, I don't want this interview to go the wrong way or go get into like dipping too
06:23negative
06:24But like it's a very frustrating experience, you know, you got to realize too
06:28There's a lot of turnover in these spaces and there's people that come from
06:33Spaces that are not necessarily creative that in the power to make or break projects
06:37And these companies are constantly being bought up all the time. So everything's changing all the time
06:42And so I think you're constantly having to reintroduce yourself to people that you feel like technically
06:47You should be known by or there should be some sort of
06:53Natural reciprocity or give and take and and I I don't know if
06:57I don't know why I constantly feel like I have to like remind people of stuff or prove myself to
07:03people
07:03But that's just how this business works
07:06And like it exhausts me and so then you start thinking about how long do I have to do this
07:11this way?
07:11Or do it at all, you know kind of thing really for sure
07:14So for me then it goes more to like where's the happy place?
07:18Like where is the happy place?
07:19It's it's doing great work, you know
07:22Or being around people where there's the potential to do great work
07:25And just really getting back to story
07:27But it's hard to remind yourself of that because I think the more
07:31On some level the more success I've had the more
07:35Protective I've been and want to be very
07:40Conscious around the choices I make and what I lend my energies to
07:44Before I like start rambling too much
07:46You told me I think it's interesting in the context of what you're just saying another thing you told me
07:52then I remember
07:55Was you were like I spent a lot of years being afraid that wasn't able to live my dream
08:00And I was like, what is your dream?
08:01And you're like basically to lead a movie
08:03Yeah, and you had had success you were on house of cards
08:06I remember when we were in venice like I was like the luke cage who's just extremely excited to see
08:11you
08:11But you were like, I know I know like you were like put me in coach. Yeah
08:16Your mother your mother your mother I had to like check this three times like
08:20I kind of could be like it's only your second or third leading performance like two two right after a
08:26swan song
08:26Which admittedly is kind of two leads in one, but how's that possible?
08:31That's what i'm saying
08:33But I don't know like they I just I don't lose too much sleep over yeah
08:38I feel taken care of you know, um
08:42And I feel like i'm the type of person
08:45Where if you get it you get it if you get me you get me and I think we'll probably
08:50have a great time working together
08:51You know with the respect is mutual
08:54And I but when I feel supported and seen I definitely do my best work
08:58Yeah, and I feel like my energy always comes ready to try to uplift improve the story
09:04Like elevate the character
09:06I want things to I want thing I I approach something not to meet it where it's at
09:11I always approach it going like can I improve it, you know, that's always my goal
09:15Yeah, i'm conscious and i'm specific about the things I do the folks I want to work with and
09:22And I
09:23I don't think anything's gonna change that and I think if anything if once I've at times when i've kind
09:29of like relaxed on that
09:30Those are the things that kind of have
09:32Quietly I feel like have proven to kind of bite me in the ass
09:35You know
09:37And i'm not mad at that either because all right good to know I want and that's why I can
09:42say that because of the
09:45The experiences that i've had
09:47Professionally i've been working 26 years now. There's a part of me that feels newly formed
09:53It's kind of part of me that feels like like oh, okay
09:56I get it now and I think I have calluses in the right places. Yeah, so yeah, i'm not i'm
10:01not taking this stuff as personally as
10:03That's recent
10:05Like I know I don't want to speak like i've had this figured out
10:08Yeah, but I just think my nature it's very difficult as an actor
10:12because you're
10:14You can't be good at your job unless you are deeply empathetic
10:19But then there's something in the world and in this business that tells you to shut that off when you're
10:24not on screen
10:26Or maybe you're naturally an empathetic person you find yourself as an artist or an actor
10:30And then suddenly you turn that off when you're not technically working. I feel sensitive in life
10:36Yeah, there's a learned response to being to having the feelings that I have in response to experiences that i've
10:43had
10:43Where those calluses have had to form begrudgingly if that makes sense. Yeah, but I still am trying to make
10:50sure that you don't become callous
10:53So that you lose the connection with the work once it's time to allow those things to live safely in
10:59a space
11:00That is very productive for those feelings to be in right. So that's been more of the challenge
11:06For me over the course of especially the last 10 years is to be able to differentiate protect my empathy
11:13and my sensitivities
11:15From some of the business experiences that really don't care about your feelings
11:19you're an astronaut like you
11:22You win for moonlight and you win an oscar two years later
11:27You win an oscar for a green book in the moment after the second one again. You're like a deeply
11:31feeling person
11:33You've had this crazy industry experience that basically very few people have ever had. What are you walking around feeling
11:38and thinking?
11:39Oh, man, I think the I felt I felt
11:44It's strange to admit but I kind of felt like a bit of a I was having this golden boy
11:51experience after moonlight
11:53And the tough lesson was I learned very quickly after green book there can be an equal energy to sort
11:59of like
12:01Not even undercut but to like really question and pick you pick one apart really like what what do you
12:07mean by that?
12:08Oh, man, I think because of like certain controversies around that film
12:12Yeah, I mean they're still write articles bashing that film
12:15There are still people who got stuff to say about that film when I don't know. I've seen some other
12:19films
12:22I have something to say about if we really want to go
12:24They're talking about green book that have done very well in that get the academy, but I just think that
12:30there were
12:31These things are not fresh for for for people and audiences because kind of what people do they something comes
12:36out
12:37They either love it or hate it or something in between and they pick things apart for various reasons
12:41Sometimes those reasons are super legitimate. I'm not discounting some of the criticisms around green book or or some of
12:47the stuff
12:49but
12:50I think for me personally
12:53To be involved in some being like so hyper conscious throughout my career
12:57I even said no when I couldn't afford to say no at certain times like coming up
13:01You quit house carts and even before that there was shows that I had was offered that technically probably was
13:06a good job
13:07But it just didn't feel like where I was trying to go and I I knew in
13:112000 that
13:13Coming right out of school one life to live wasn't right for me, you know, I'm saying
13:17But I got a good offer to go do that. I needed that money
13:20But my point is sometimes things can go
13:24In a way where you just you just don't control that
13:28And so I felt like whatever I kind of happened from
13:32The moonlight of it all I feel like so much came into question for me after green book
13:37in a way in which
13:39Certain people responded to that that I felt impacted by I definitely felt impacted by and how did you react
13:44to that?
13:45Like did that change the way you made decisions that changed the way you thought about your career?
13:50I think it made me I think my nature is a little bit like a cat a bit where I
13:54kind of like have to feel spaces out
13:56Once you're comfortable in the space, you're like, okay
13:59And you'll see a cat he'll he or she will have real ownership of their space
14:03But they like tuck away at like so I think that's my nature is look like feel things out
14:08And I think I felt I actually grew to feel relatively comfortable
14:12And then I think the response to green book and around some people that from some people that I
14:17Had admired it made me uncomfortable in the space
14:20And I was even grateful for that because it was a reminder not to sort of fall asleep
14:25Here's the list of actors who have more acting wins than you. Yeah, Katherine Hepburn
14:29Meryl Streep
14:30Jack Nicholson
14:31Ingrid Bergman
14:32Daniel Day-Lewis
14:34Francis McDormand
14:35Sean Penn
14:35Walter Brennan
14:36Uh, that's it. It's five living actors. I don't even have a question. I just think that's cool
14:41I think that's pretty cool
14:42I guess if it were if it were a question it would be do you recognize yourself in that company?
14:49Uh, I don't think about myself like that. I just
14:53I you know what a part I just I feel like I got so much work to do
14:58I don't know. I don't know what is for me in the future, but I I really do
15:05I feel like I'm discovering so much when I'm working. Okay, I have a question about this. Yeah, and while
15:11the phone is out
15:11Yeah, my ask it here's the list of films you've done since since green book. Yeah same year
15:16You do spider-man. It's a spider verse 2019 alita battle angel 2021 swan song
15:22Yeah, 2023 leave the world behind 2025 drastic world rebirth and now
15:27Your mother your mother your mother
15:28I don't want to be greedy, but that's like five films in eight years should have been six or seven
15:33I just didn't blade didn't happen
15:36um, which I I felt like
15:39definitely
15:42Impacted how things unfold in your trajectory like I got so you were saving time for that film
15:46I wasn't saving once it was happening. I was working on it
15:50You know, I was doing what I needed to do to prepare myself
15:53It just didn't happen and I don't write
15:56I'm not writing
15:57But why not that's a kevin feige question they have they had a
16:01As you said a two-time oscar-winning actor under contract and you've got billions of dollars
16:08That's a question for them like why it didn't happen. I don't mean that anything personal to you, but I
16:13don't know why I did to this day
16:14I don't know why it didn't happen. I just know that
16:17It was
16:20Kevin
16:20He said it was the biggest failure of his career and I said the quote was I feel like a
16:24giant loser and I
16:26For not getting off the ground. I agree with him. I agree with him a hundred percent
16:30A hundred percent he should feel that way
16:32And so some of that time that we're talking about is accounted for a hundred I spent a year training
16:37Yeah, I trained so hard till I blew my knee out. No way like I was just waiting for them
16:42to
16:42Oh pushing it back pushing it back push. I'm still training. I'm training. I'm learning sword work
16:46I'm learning like name of martial art. I'm training in any
16:50I literally moved uprooted my family moved to atlanta. We're there waiting to go
16:56And they just keep pushing it back pushing it back pushing it and we don't it doesn't happen
17:00So when it's then there's a strike and then you know, so so when it's five and it's supposed to
17:04be eight
17:04That's kind of what what happens. I went to them in 2019. That was my first meeting
17:09We're at comic-con by 2019 in the summer. I didn't want to make no announcements
17:15I don't believe in the announcements. They just do the work and then it's like, okay, you announced the work
17:19is done
17:19But all this like anticipatory stuff is not I'm not a fan of that at all
17:23but they want to do all that we did all that and
17:27Had a story
17:28greenlit and then
17:30We don't have any deliverables and I don't I can't deliver until they deliver right?
17:36Yeah, so that's not a secret. Otherwise, we'd have a movie. So yeah
17:40Otherwise, these six movies or something, you know
17:42Yeah, and then I'm saying no to things in that time because they own my schedule really okay
17:47I've seen you say weird thing about becoming more successful is that somehow you work less you get to do
17:52it that much
17:53You know because so much goes into the decision and what you're working on who you're working with and
17:59Getting certain things right, which it's which is kind of like just my nature in general, but
18:05the stakes could kind of feel
18:08feel high after you
18:11Start being recognized for your work in a certain way
18:13Which they've always felt high for me just in general and I still have my goals and my aspirations, but
18:18honestly
18:19You wouldn't even be able to ask that question on some level if by 2023
18:23We were shooting something that was announced four years earlier, right?
18:27Like that's so much time and then we should be on the second one by now, but I will say
18:32To sort of bring it back around to actually how more how i'm feeling in the moment
18:38Is i'm actually grateful it didn't happen because I don't think we would get this film
18:42I know we wouldn't you wouldn't get this film with me
18:45um
18:46Your mother your mother your mother which is directed by the director that was originally attached to the blade project,
18:52the sound tree
18:52And when I look at the benefits of what I got to do opposed to what I thought I was
18:57supposed to do
18:59I honestly feel
19:02Creatively I feel fulfilled by your mother what I think the marvel of it all taught me
19:08Is that I hadn't really
19:10It was kind of the opposite of why I wanted to get off a house of cards
19:14First of all, I could tell that part wasn't growing
19:16It was almost felt like it was kind of getting smaller and I was like
19:18I felt frustrated by that because I felt like oh
19:21I wanted to move into this leading man space that I've been sort of fighting so hard to kind of
19:25get to and dreaming of
19:25At that time I was living in new york and like walking around in brooklyn and people being like yo
19:30remi
19:30Like once people knew my character name and could identify me with something
19:34That scared me a bit because I think I really prided myself on at least working to be transformational and
19:41working to be
19:41different in different things and so the idea of someone just being able to be like
19:46Say they've seen you in 10 things, but they go. Oh, you're that character that one
19:51That made me a little nervous and then two I think after the whole marvel announcement
19:56You realize there's a lot of people who really don't really know your work like that
20:00But could go. Oh, you're playing blade or that's blade like I started getting that sure. I'd done a day
20:06of work on it
20:08And I realized that this sort of almost
20:12Anticipatory fame almost or something around that
20:17Felt really unfamiliar to me. So you almost felt creatively in debt
20:22Yeah, you know, yeah, I mean
20:25We like we know it's gonna be it has to be x y and z
20:28We want everything to be good
20:30But I had never experienced someone like labeling you as a character
20:35Feeling like this is what you're supposed to do. This is what you're supposed to be able to be
20:38Before it even comes out
20:41So I feel like the
20:43Just for my nature, I think the blessing in disguise for me
20:47Is that it sort of like removes me out of that space of being
20:51And there's only one space where people become that type of famous and it's in the marvel world right after
20:57things begin to sort of
21:00Undo and I had to start like divesting energetically. I felt a beautiful phrase
21:05I felt okay about it because
21:08In looking back, you know, I really want to be someone who originates things
21:12This film is like the polar opposite of that in every way
21:14Even like I think by the standards of like modern hollywood where you don't really get
21:19Films sort of this original like not just like script wise, but also sort of tonally like the way it's
21:25shot
21:26Yeah, the way it's sort of like
21:28Comedy
21:29But very dramatic at some parts almost melodrama at times it can be big
21:34Yeah, I imagine there are people around you that were like that's a little too original man. I don't know
21:38You know what maybe maybe but I I would much rather air on that air in that space
21:44Yeah, and to be one of those like genre defining films potentially that for better for worse people just sort
21:51I love that but or I just love that or I hated it cool
21:56But you can't say it was like anything else. Yeah
21:59I lean heavily into into that space and so
22:03So these for me are I I hope proving to be
22:08Like really good lessons it is it helped me get clarity on
22:13Not only the type of projects I want to work on but the type of like directors
22:18executives
22:20Studios like the people who have a certain type of like passion
22:24For storytelling and filmmaking and supporting of like talents instincts and especially in a time when they clearly don't know
22:31What people want because people are not going to the movies like they used to go to so you can't
22:35tell me
22:35It's really not for the for the marvel films right right it's so or whoever i'm not even speaking marvel
22:40Yeah, but I actually think it's true
22:42I think in some ways like you know, the big stories this year is like people go see
22:46Obsession and they go see back room and audiences are going to that stuff
22:50Yeah, over the other things yeah at this point it feels like yeah, and this feels very in keeping with
22:55that
22:55like what if we just?
22:57Made a movie you don't recognize the character right don't know the story already, but it you know, you and
23:02I were talking
23:02Uh before we started rolling about being
23:07Parents I have two kids you have one yeah, this isn't the only thing that the movie is about
23:12But one of the things that I really liked about it was like it was just like being a dad
23:15is hard. Yeah
23:16Yeah
23:18That much right, but no, I mean I was like you're not even really supposed to say it
23:21Yeah, right
23:22But I wondered if if if somehow your experiences as a father had like fed into your desire to do
23:29the film
23:29I think my experiences as a father made me very grateful to get to do this film
23:33It's a really wonderful responsibility
23:39To be tasked
23:41With articulating something you're familiar with but not knowing all of it like I don't know everything about being a
23:48dad
23:48I do the best that I can
23:49Yeah
23:49I hope my daughter will grow up god willing and be like I had an amazing dad, you know
23:55But I don't know if i'm always doing things, right
23:58But you kind of do the best you can
24:00Latif
24:00I don't think he has the grace for himself that I think i'm speaking to for my own self right
24:05at this moment
24:06But I think latif ends up there. I know the tenets of being a father
24:10But getting to step into latif's world specifically and be the type of father he has to be is a
24:15Is is a mystery to me right getting to?
24:19Navigate his responsibilities moment to moment and all the stressors
24:24And even being a widow
24:25I know pieces of those things. I know grief in my own way. I know fatherhood in my own way.
24:30I know being overwhelmed in my own way
24:33I know
24:34God in my own way, um in
24:37Community you know, so all these
24:40Attributes that can come together
24:43That need to come together and stitch together to play latif. I'm familiar with and so that's the joy in
24:49Wrestling with the character like that is is working day to day to make it all
24:53Make sense and hopefully be somebody that resonates with you once
24:58You know those credits roll we don't know each other like this
25:01But you've been pretty open about your kind of relationship with your father who was a showbiz guy, too
25:07I don't want to mischaracterize it. Yeah, but
25:11Seemed like more or less chose the work over the family. Hmm. I don't know if that's a fair way
25:15to put it. No, you know
25:18He was on broadway. Yeah. He worked in new york city. You grew up on the west coast. You know,
25:22I think about that sometime
25:25And there's so much to my dad's story
25:27When I think about somebody who's like 20 years old when he moves to new york something I mentioned earlier.
25:33It's like
25:34There's a moment where you're sort of like giving birth to yourself like you kind of are conscious enough to
25:39go
25:39Oh, this is what I need to be to be able to even be here for other people, you know,
25:44and so I think that there is
25:46There's a way in which I think of him
25:50Especially the time in which we got to spend together
25:53I almost think more of like him being honest about who he was what he was
25:58Pursuing
25:59In some way as a your child. It's like a pay it paying it forward type of thing. I learned
26:05more from him
26:07Being exactly who he needed to be then I would have learned from him
26:11Sort of editing his experience and staying home in the bay area when I know
26:18All the things I know about my father
26:20The things that make him him he needed to do exactly what he did
26:24I think the child me version of me would have loved to have had my dad in proximity
26:30But I can honestly say
26:34That I learned so much in the moments that I had with him
26:39And part of that inherently in that learning
26:43Was
26:44Him being honest about who he was and his pursuits
26:48And I never felt cut out of that. I just didn't he just wasn't present if that makes sense and
26:53that and again, that's a
26:54Maybe difficult to understand but it's I think what's most important is that I get it
26:59He and my mom are going to be together regardless anyway, and so
27:03In terms of him being who he needed to be
27:07That wasn't in the bay area and I don't prioritize the quote-unquote success and experience that i'm having now
27:12over my
27:13Childhood per se, but I will say that
27:17The things that happened had to happen for me to be on my journey towards the fulfillment that I know
27:22of that I know to be
27:24I honor his choices in that way and it also makes me like very
27:28Aware of and conscious and grateful for the things that my mom did and the family around my father
27:36That really supported my upbringing his mom my grandparents
27:41Were extraordinary and I
27:44I there's no way i'd be talking to you right now without
27:48My grandma made me or
27:52Raising yeah ain't no way yeah, no way there's no way there's no way there's no way my mentality
27:57How I look at the world and my mom has played a huge part of my life
28:01But but just speaking specifically to the absence of my father. I think my grandmother specifically
28:07And her husband my grandfather, but like really my grandmother came in and like filled some voids
28:13in a way that really helped to shape me that
28:17I I kind of wouldn't trade that time
28:19Almost with her for kind of like anything to be when you became a father yourself
28:24Did you did that give you a different perspective on your dad?
28:30I
28:30Think it has made me
28:36Grateful for the iteration of fatherhood
28:41That perhaps my daughter is experiencing and even that I question is it enough sometime, you know when i'm trying
28:48to do
28:49The best that I can I thought you know another explanation for five and eight years or six and eight
28:54years is
28:55You're a nine you have a nine-year-old kid
28:57Yeah, and I and we really try to stay together, you know as best we can it's not like i'm
29:02working on the east coast and she's kind of
29:05In school for a semester on the east coast because i'm working on the east coast kind of thing
29:09But we've been able to sit still for
29:11X amount of years where she's been able to have some consistency so that's always
29:16Something that i'm very cognizant of and even going to do jurassic a couple years ago
29:24That meant
29:25Like I was kind of not with them for
29:28Like five months for the most part besides a couple of weeks that didn't feel good
29:32You know that felt like hard and it like because we were on the other side of the world just
29:36not being able to like missing each other
29:37Like just in terms of times like they're waking up. I'm going to bed. They're going to bed. I'm waking
29:41up
29:43It's like yeah, you're trying but it's not trying like you know, but I will also say
29:49That I know she sees me trying
29:51And she gives me credit for that
29:53Like I know she does because there's been times when I was like, oh, i'm sorry. I can't
29:58I can't hang out with you right now and she'll have her reaction to that
30:02And i'm having my reaction to it right now, but she'll have her reaction to that and um
30:08I remember saying i'm so sorry. I have to go to work
30:12And she's crying and she goes oh, it's not your fault
30:15And so part of me is just very like just grateful that um
30:21That that's her attitude at least right now, you know on it so I just try to like honor
30:28Sort of honor her feelings, you know, so that's best I can say about getting too choked up. Sorry. I
30:32need a second. Sorry. Take a second
30:35Can I have a tissue please?
30:37I'm sorry. I didn't mean to no, it's okay. Just well, I mean
30:41Um, sorry. I just it's that's what you wait. What are you apologizing?
30:45Seriously, what are you apologizing for?
30:48When your kid has a
30:51Expectation however rational or irrational. Yeah, and you kind of can't meet it
30:55You're just like well now I need to walk into the ocean, you know, like now
31:00No matter how right you are, you know
31:02No matter how correct the decision is no matter how considered it is. It's not a great feeling and also
31:09like you said you're like um
31:12Forging that new reality now like you're building it right now and I think that there's these ways in which
31:18You know kids change
31:21And I think that they the way they express love
31:27Changes
31:29Along with their language and their capacity
31:32So I just think that as she grows that's becoming more
31:36It's not even adult. It's just maturing
31:38Mm-hmm
31:39And so when she can when they can like honestly speak to things in a way that
31:44Like
31:46Can cut deep because they're just honestly articulating themselves like
31:51It's different from when they're like three and they're they want something but they like once they start getting older
31:57And they got that language to really say this is how I'm feeling. He's like oh god. Yeah
32:05It's one of the things I actually really do like about the movie
32:08Which is obviously about more than that, but it is the character that you're playing is just like in a
32:13very hectic
32:14Fatherhood moment where it's kind of like trying to do my best
32:17I got some other stuff going on in its
32:21Mania and you're playing an assassin basically, but in the in the midst of that it's a very real feeling
32:27that
32:27I recognize watching it is like
32:30Yeah, i've been there when you're like simultaneously trying to really take care of kids
32:36But also the world is right calling calling you right? Yeah. Yeah. How involved were you in the kind of
32:43like?
32:44Development of the film the making it the shepherding of it through
32:48The psalm had sent me the script. I got the script in like i want to say
32:52Like december 2024. Mm-hmm. I really took my time like it is like a month before you heard like
33:00Me maybe even longer. Honestly, we probably were talking some things through it was
33:05Probably 85 90 percent of what you see now
33:09I had some some thoughts and wanted some things stitched together a little different or a little bit clearer
33:16But honestly, that's kind of par for the course
33:19Yeah, like that's nothing I think if anything I might have impacted the development once
33:24He knew that he had me, you know
33:26Sure, that got the movie made
33:27You know, you could like lean in and go okay
33:30It's really for Mahershala, but like he would tell you that he kind of just
33:34When he started writing it, he just put my name in it because that's
33:37Well, it is funny because it's like you're clearly using like
33:41Blade training in it, too, you know, it's like so it's like it's like completely unrelated, but then it's like
33:46Oh, well, thank god because we didn't have any time
33:48So it's like I got to use all that training. Yes, literally
33:51We didn't have time or the money hadn't been training for a year, but I had done that for a
33:56year earlier
33:57Yeah, and so when I did get to tap back in with some people locally, you know back in la
34:02It was kind of like oh things it was like waking up
34:05Yeah, yeah
34:07To go and so that was like a that was a huge help. So it wasn't all the waste
34:13Yeah
34:15Just just mostly just mostly a waste
34:18I had a conversation earlier this year with the actor robert pattinson
34:22Yeah, and he was talking about how he thought you hit the certain level of success
34:27And there's like a magic door that opens yeah and behind that door is all the good opportunities
34:32Yeah, yeah, and he was like directors waiting to work. Yeah, and he's like and then I got there and
34:36I opened the door and there was nothing behind it
34:38Yeah, has that been your experience too? I honestly the there's been two projects
34:47That and and this honestly no and I'm gonna be honest
34:51I've had I've only had one project in seven years that has been a no-brainer and I haven't got
34:56to do that one yet
34:57I said yes to that one right and we're like really working to do that as soon as I can
35:01But one thing me and my manager kind of joke about is like i'm just waiting for the like
35:08He got to do this one. This is a no-brainer, right? Your mother your mother your mother wasn't that
35:13like he wasn't
35:14He wasn't he wasn't he was like i'm not sure but like I really like this
35:18But i'm not what do you think kind of thing because there's you could imagine what you see on screen
35:23Imagine just reading that and going like how is all this gonna like fit together, right?
35:27like yeah, because that was my major question was this feels like a lot of different movies and so I
35:32was
35:33Curious about like how he's gonna stitch together these genres to make them feel like they feel cohesive
35:38And he was able to do that like in a wonderful way
35:41So that's why I would say this is not a no-brainer because I wasn't sure as to how that
35:46was going to really fit together
35:47Going back to Robert's statement
35:50100% agree because there's no projects that have that I've gotten
35:54That have been like I got to do this, you know, I'm saying that's just it's more of like well
35:59Maybe we can kind of fudge this and make this work or let's get it going in conversation kind of
36:05thing
36:05And that was his kind of point was like what you what you find is that you do movies like
36:10your mother where you just make your own path
36:11You just say okay. It's not a no-brainer and it's not that's where the clarity is
36:15Yeah, I could keep going back to I thought especially after winning two and especially they're both for
36:21um supporting so I was like, oh, it's gonna break now, you know, but like I'm asking to be the
36:27lead on true detective
36:28I'm asking to like it wasn't oh here you go
36:31But I think there's part of me that I know all that now so I'm not I don't feel I
36:37don't feel any bitterness or like
36:40Disappointment around that because I'm gonna be careful of it coming off that way because it's not honestly not how
36:44I feel if anything
36:45There's sort of a relief
36:47In the epiphany of like, oh, ain't nobody coming to save you. You gotta like build your boat
36:53They're not coming
36:55There's no helicopter coming right like get to like cutting wood and like, you know, you just you realize that
37:01the best you can do is
37:03Use those materials around you to make your way out
37:06So I think if anything there might be a couple of more nails and hammers around, you know, and I
37:12go. Oh, okay
37:13All right, let's put this vision to work and start trying to like make something
37:18Yeah, I mean, it's like 2016 all over again in a way where you're like, all right, like let's go
37:23build it
37:23Let's go make it. Yeah, the golden ticket wasn't ultimately a golden ticket. Yeah
37:28I mean, it was two cool statues very cool statues. Yeah, two extremely cool statues. They're so shiny and important
37:36But like you got you got you got to do work. You got to keep doing work. Yeah
37:39And that's that's that's just what it is. It's okay. It's okay. I'm just I'm learning what that is
37:45I feel like I'm on the brink of of finding it
37:48And I think part of it was me getting past the whole blade of it all and it being like
37:51officially like done
37:53To go, okay
37:55It's this it's this
37:58It ain't that it's you know and starting to figure out how to put this thing
38:02You're in Philly shooting gas right now
38:04Yeah, yeah, which yes, and it's feeding me, you know, uh, I'm hungry. I'm hungry, bro
38:12I'm hungry. I'm hungry. Watch out if actors
38:15I'm hungry and I don't mean that with any no collar popping. No, bro. I'm just I'm hungry
38:20I'll pick hot and it no
38:21It's just like this is a hungriest I've been as an actor in a long time
38:25So I'm excited to have material that gives me something to chew on so that's all I say
38:30That's cool. Yeah 10 years into this phase. You got you got 20 more to go
38:35Yeah, God willing. Yeah, well, Mahershali. Thanks for doing. Thank you. Thanks for having me
38:40appreciate you, uh
38:42Navigating the uh, the emotionality
38:44What I mean honestly that there's not like that's not that's not a bad thing
38:49It would be weird if I was like, hey man, could you not cry on my show?
38:52That would be it would be better if there were no if there were no tears. Also, I relate heavily
38:57If you were if I talked about my kids too long
39:00I would