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On this episode of #TheFutureIsFemale Melisa Idris speaks with Dr Wang Sheng-Wei, independent scholar and writer and founder of the China-US Friendship Exchange. She’s also the author of the book ‘Chinese Explored Asia Long Before the Europeans, published in 2025. Dr Wang was a speaker at the Penang Peace Dialogue 2026 in Georgetown, Penang.
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00:10hello and good evening i'm melissa idris welcome to the future is female this is the show where
00:16we find the extraordinary in every woman i'm here in georgetown penang for the second edition of the
00:22penang peace dialogue which is organized by the commonwealth of world china towns and my guest
00:29today i'm delighted to introduce is a speaker at the event dr wang sheng wei who is an independent
00:34scholar and writer who founded the china-us friendship exchange she's also the author of
00:40the book the chinese explored asia long before the europeans and that book was published in 2025
00:47we're here to talk more with with her about it thank you so much for joining me today welcome
00:52to the show um it's i'm excited to learn more about what you will be speaking about at the penang
00:58peace
00:59dialogue but i want to talk a little bit about your journey here yeah i i think you've had such
01:06a
01:06remarkable different acts in life so you've had very different careers throughout your life yes yes i you
01:14studied theoretical chemical physics and you're a scientist you spent then 15 years as a property
01:21developer in california yes and then you moved into writing an independent scholarship and u.s china
01:28advocacy right so right can you talk to me a little bit about that did that feel like one uh
01:33continuous
01:35journey or was that more like separate chapters or separate lives that you've had um well
01:41that started as a scientist that is well planned and aimed at you know i was born in taiwan in
01:47those
01:48days people um that for young people their highest goal is to achieve some kind of american dream in those
01:55days the the u.s and taiwan relationship was very nice right so so then um i thought to go
02:03abroad if i
02:04study history or literature area then it would be hard to get scholarship and i do need
02:11i didn't need a scholarship so i choose chemistry or or physics science so i got the full scholarship
02:18and for doctor's degrees you know at the university of southern california so i spent four years there
02:26as a scientist got my phd and then went on to do several years of post-doctoral work at the
02:34distinguished institutes including um went into um going to germany with at the time germany west germany
02:43and i was post post doctor with later the nobel prize winner you know yeah professor gerhard urto so so
02:53these are all very challenging for my life and as a as a student fully depend on scholarship and post
03:01-doctorship
03:02i had worked very very hard um and then and it went it was very challenging until the time i
03:09became
03:09already staff scientist at the lawrence berkeley national lab you know i stayed there for a few
03:16years but later because during those years if you study um a kind of a theoretical theory and the funding
03:24was very tight so it came to the point that we didn't get our grants you know so i had
03:30to work for
03:31industry but so i spent a few years in industry but it was never really my aiming life to work
03:38for a
03:39corporation you know i make money for the corporation was never um one of my my plan so so i
03:46stayed there
03:46for a few years but after one year i already realized um it's not a career i'm going to spend
03:53like
03:53my life because throughout my life i'm always very clear about what i want to do in life
03:59and i never want myself um to have a life just for money or just for obligated so like a
04:08bigger
04:08purpose you needed yeah wanted to contribute yeah so after one year i i was thinking what should i do
04:14next and it happened in a purely um accidentally i got into a real estate opportunity and it was a
04:25good
04:26opportunity because i was introduced to macau's largest developer he was in oakland california chinatown
04:36and he built a huge building there however he had a small piece of land in front of his house
04:43you know
04:44so and i happened to be the most suitable person to acquire that land so i started my construction work
04:52there of course i didn't do the actual work myself but i managed so how did you move into that
05:00into
05:01um advocacy into into china u.s advocacy and i do want to ask okay that's afterwards yeah afterwards
05:07after the property yeah after property and so for about 10 or 15 years i achieved my financial independence
05:15because as i said as a first generation immigrant it's most important you have to stand you know
05:22financial ground and at that point i i think i already made my first million dollars at the age
05:28before 40. well done in those days you know in the late 80s that's pretty big money right so i
05:35felt i can
05:36be independent and do something i really wanted as part of my interest when i was young actually i was
05:44really interested in becoming a diplomat when i was young i was always very good at chinese literature
05:51literature history with philosophy those things but with given taiwan's political situation in those
05:59days it is also almost impossible to to be in that kind of area and become successful because there is
06:08no
06:09such international um opportunities for taiwan to achieve that so that's why i became a scientist you know but at
06:18that point i already
06:19have done science and i made money so the next step is i hope to feel feel some fulfill some
06:27childhood dream so then i
06:29thought what should i do i started by writing something but i had no basis you know i spent years
06:35just as scientist
06:36not reading any more history and not in english especially you know so i started as translation
06:43because i know chinese well and i do want to improve my english um you know in china in taiwan
06:51we're not
06:53english is not our native language and so i want to improve that i want to use the english language
07:00language to express a taiwanese or a chinese idea about the country about their future use the language
07:09that american can understand you know because most of them don't read chinese so then i started by
07:15translating books and the first book i translate was one country two system in taiwan so that is the
07:23dung shaoping's proposal for for for for for taiwan and i thought american would be interested because
07:30this is such an important subject for the americans to handle taiwan's future so i decided to choose that
07:37project and i successfully published the english translation of that chinese book written by a
07:45japanese writer and i had my new book ceremony at the um congress u.s congress library congress had a
07:55book
07:55ceremony i i had a very supportive director of the asian division of that library and he later on was
08:05uh kind of my first mentor in this path you know so after that that was at the time in
08:13the um late 80s late 80s
08:16those very rampant um talks about china as a threat to the world in the 80s in the late 80s
08:26already you know
08:27so yes and and um maybe starting from japan first and then of course it quickly spread to the u
08:36.s so
08:37there's all the china threat theory every day you you can see from new york new york times or washington
08:43post and all that so but by the time i was trying to establish um the the china u.s
08:49friendship um this
08:51this organization that was in the early 2000s already you know that was what i wanted to
08:57ask you so you established this um u.s uh china u.s friendship exchange 2006 that was 20 years
09:04ago
09:04so very different time in u.s china relationships yeah can you talk to me a little bit about that
09:09what do you think um is missing in the relationship today what was different with the relationship
09:16back then back then today because yeah you're telling me that you know in the 80s washington is
09:21already talking about china as a threat yeah late 40 40 years later you know some 30 plus years later
09:30yes we're still having the same conversation in washington yeah is that true yes um yes because
09:37at the at that in in those days you see in the late 80s or even in the 90s the
09:43china was still very
09:45poor we visited the china in 84 china was really backward even that i as a taiwanese i had a
09:52high
09:52expectation i was going to the so-called homeland of my parents you know so i had a high uh
09:58expectation
09:59expectations but i was very i must say i was very disappointed it was still rather backward however
10:07i felt i already sensed the strong motivation of the people there they constantly asked me the
10:15question because i was from taiwan so taiwan's economy already picked up then so i said how did
10:23taiwan made it how did they make this economic miracle they want to find any crew from people
10:30there so they can catch up so so that was the beginning of china's ascendancy then already
10:37so at in those years the china and the china was not a threat to the u.s except ideologically
10:45you know
10:45scholars may think that way but economically it's really their poor country the averaging 500 us dollars
10:53a year gdp right so it's not a competitor at all so u.s had a hope um u.s
11:01was in the cold war with russia
11:03uh and it had the hope that they want to make friends so these triangular um relations if they
11:09make friends with uh with china maybe they're going to um defeat the russia and they did successfully
11:16right with kissinger's and nixon's visit and all that and then shaoping's opened the door you know so
11:23that was the the great story there so so i decided to have this organization i said i want
11:30to i came from taiwan and my parents came from the mainland and i had my advanced education in the
11:38u.s and i will become i have already by then i almost got my citizenship you know um yes
11:46i did already
11:46so i'm an american you know so i want to use the english language to express my opinion about this
11:55uh cross-strait situation in china-us relations so i slept established this organization okay and what
12:03is it today how has that evolved from what it was in 2006 to 2026 yeah and and that's how
12:11uh gives i
12:12haven't answered your question in those days the china china was trying to um engage um i mean u.s
12:22was
12:22trying to engage china as a partner against in the cold war days against russia and that was successful
12:30so afterwards um so there was not a bad relationship right so both sides are opening for trades and
12:38everything so the u.s had a high hope ideology rise they don't match at all so the americans had
12:46a high
12:47high hope they think if china can become prosperous someday maybe they're going to abandon their um
12:54dictatorship of communism you know actually china i wouldn't call it
13:02communism uh similar to the original proposed by marxism but there are the so-called socialism with
13:11chinese characteristics they're very business-minded you know chinese people always business-minded
13:17throughout history and they keep that that is in their gym although they borrow something from
13:22marxism and that was due to the revolution days they have to kind of change the social structure so the
13:30landlord wouldn't control everything that's mouse id you know so that was over so now we're coming to
13:37these socialism with chinese characteristics so the american side the scholar had a whole high hope
13:45if china can become uh really prosperous economically maybe they're going to abandon what their political
13:53system right now then they would not be ideologically against the u.s and will not be um animatic with
14:04each other that was a big hope so then we came with the big success in 2003 um i think
14:12it's a clinton or
14:13uh president uh agreed uh agreed to let china join the wto so then was a great relationship this
14:23globalization right and china uses the money from again from the trade to buy u.s treasuries and each
14:32side were very happy americans get very cheap chinese products so everybody's feeling happy so it's a
14:39kind of mutually mutually mutually better win-win situation and then so china um was low tech in
14:48those days cheap labor textiles you know low-cost production but now it's coming to the same but
14:55china wasn't a poor country throughout history it was the major power in the past two thousand years
15:04years so that culture background that deep-rooted civilization never never died it only defeated
15:15shortly by the western power because of poverty and because of china's own mistake in closing the doors
15:23after zhenghe so this is connected with zhenghe okay after that then china closed the door um willingly give
15:32give out his own position to the european powers you know give away um or being stolen i want to
15:39say
15:40just give away in those days the copyrights is not a it was an idea yeah so they give away
15:46this idea the
15:47european countries they came out from the dark age they were all eager want to develop their economy
15:54when they look at ease they're trying to find a shortcut to asia for the for the spice markets and
16:03all
16:03the supplier and all that so so they're eager for economic advances and here come with china all free
16:11the maps and the technologies china willingly give away to to the europeans because china withdraw from the
16:19world stage withdraw from the maritime um platform so then you come you came with the age of discovery
16:27the so-called european age of discovery and and so china lost all that influence all that power and
16:35closest door complacency too right so so china lost everything and but you know history china wasn't
16:43like that it was a blip in the history right so so with this opening um collaboration between china and
16:52the u.s china regained grasped that this time they didn't miss the chance they missed the chance of the
17:00industrial revolution but they did not miss this chance of opening up globalization they resumed their
17:08ancient idea of the silk road of the tributary system the trade collaboration that sort of thing so china
17:19rise very very quickly this time they're fully aware that they cannot repeat the mistake they made in the
17:28ming dynasty or in the qing dynasty too right they are weak already in the qing dynasty so they were
17:34invaded
17:34by the uh european powers and japanese u.s everybody comes to china takes part of you know take part
17:42of the
17:42region become their their government there you know so so you know china's ascendancy um
17:50um is that the threat or an opportunity became the subject of my second book my first english author
17:57uh author i am the author this time so i wrote a book for the purpose to educate myself i
18:05want to
18:05understand is there any basis of the japanese scholars or american journalists uh is there any basis in this so
18:14called china threat theory i'm trying to study myself right and through this writing i educated myself and i
18:23publish it so i can let more people know and it's in english so i hope the world people know
18:29so that was the
18:30time that china was already on the wave of rejuvenation right recapture is past the glory and so now at
18:41this stage you know china is now about the 60 70 percent gdp wise to the u.s and that
18:49has been quite some
18:50years already and and now often talk about when china will take over the u.s um well how about
18:58the china
18:58u.s g2 called you know co-govern the whole world and you know the the the world order established
19:08after the
19:09second world war seems to be breaking down right right yes and in europe europe was bewildered um
19:17caught by this russian ukraine war and always constantly worry about russian will hit them you
19:24know and not be able to defend and the u.s now we have trump there say forget about the
19:30world order
19:31forget about helping everybody u.s now is in trouble wearing serious debts so everybody has to pay tariff you
19:38know we do trade but nobody uh take a free meal everybody if i may just jump in here and
19:44ask you
19:45the time that we have left so because you have looked into the history and you appreciate how sometimes
19:51there is a pattern and sometimes how history can repeat itself when you look at current the current
19:57state of affairs of the the world of the global order as you brought it up what do you see
20:02happening
20:03currently what what what what is history telling you about where we are in the current state of affairs
20:10where we are in the current history yeah particularly china's role in in the global order yes in in the
20:17old world the china was um the dominant power so the distributory system has lasted for 2000 years
20:25years but we know that was totally destroyed because of the colonial um invasion all that so now and the
20:33american established order is about diminishing too because it cannot afford to be a world police or carry
20:42its own um strength like that so now we are in a transition state because because many countries um now
20:52become
20:52nation states after the the second world war many uh colonized the places became independent let's talk
21:02about the southeast asia many countries become independent about 78 years ago and so we are entering into the
21:11world of multilateralism you know it will be still two superpowers we can there are still two superpowers
21:21uh china and china china u.s are the two superpowers they are far um beyond the other ones the
21:29second level
21:30are told great powers like india you know maybe the great powers and then were the big big powers like
21:40japan
21:40germany france these countries and then we call the medium powers then you have um iran is a medium-sized
21:49country
21:50country and some you know these uh italy or um in malaysia all these countries um are not very big
21:59but they
22:01already are digging into their own uh history just like china did you know trying to revive their strength
22:09the economy their own identity so we are in this transition state and we hear all kinds of voices
22:19you know and this is why we have even this pinnan peace dialogue we're going to hear more of this
22:27and china doesn't um agree with this g2 because china now is aligned basically with the global south
22:37although the gdp total volume is the second but china is very diversified the per capita gdp is about
22:47like malaysia right so it's still the developing country are you saying that china doesn't see
22:54itself as one of the major superpowers that it sees itself as part of the global south uh it is
23:01the
23:01superpower by all measures from other people view it china also know it's a strength but it doesn't want
23:10to be put to be put in the position as the u.s um trying to do as g2 you
23:19know um like i have my
23:21territory you have you too i'm the big boss in this world i say this you follow this you know
23:27china
23:28doesn't want to be in that position because itself still have a lot of issues to solve and it also
23:36feel
23:36very sympathetic for the global south because it comes through these colonial days and it felt it's
23:43part of the same thing it cannot violate its own principle right so it want to be part of it
23:50be
23:50together be together means not dominant as a boss but on an equal basis let's share we do trade we
24:00do
24:00cultural exchange you know we transfer technology let's be part of it if we agree with this policy
24:08we can support each other if we don't agree we present it as why we don't agree and give our
24:16voice
24:17out i think china want a genuine multilism genuine do you think that is understood by the western world
24:26well what is misunderstood about china's intentions by the rest of the world yeah the the western world
24:32is at least american part i can tell or the part of the european they are afraid first of all
24:43somehow u u.s seem to be shaken by their confidence their own confidence right because it's true they
24:52always assume to have enemy the cold war days they have russia they beat it so now they think china
24:59must be very bad to them have your intention or that they assume that so they treat china as a
25:07as an
25:07enemy and of course you will get response same thing right if you i'm not nice to you you are
25:13not nice
25:14to me so so so in this case um the americans are afraid of falling into what the so-called
25:22trap you
25:23know the the asians and the greece were in a war eventually in a war and then the military complex
25:32they
25:32are promoting this concept promoting this because the u.s still have a superiority in the military power
25:41war they think they probably still have an upper hand if there is a military confrontation but that
25:47becomes less and less clear because today the war is not just how many bombs how but how great your
25:55bombs are you you you see that from iran already now this war is still over six months and no
26:01end yet
26:02okay so the american is is from an assumed enemy they're kind of losing their confidence their national
26:09deaths is so high and uh and they see the china is rising so they're really kind of nervous would
26:17china take over the you because they want to be number one okay yes they want to be number one
26:24yes
26:24and the europe is a little lost it's a little lost they used to depend on the u.s a
26:31lot and they're
26:32falling behind in in this generation of new new revolution as you said earlier it is a time of great
26:39transition in the world and especially in front of time it's been such a pleasure talking to you
26:43thank you so much for your time thank you for your interview yes that's all the time we have for
26:48you
26:48on this episode of the futures female i'm melissa idris signing off for the evening thank you so much for
26:53watching good night
26:58you
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