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A US drone maker linked to Trump's son has signed an MoU with the Pakistan Army covering UAVs, possible local manufacturing and technology cooperation. The move has sharpened concerns over technology transfers, reverse engineering and India's push for defence self-reliance.
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00:15Hello and welcome to a battle cry special broadcast. I'm Gaurav Savant. The United States and India, the relationship between
00:23the two is described as a comprehensive global strategic partnership.
00:27A partnership anchored in shared democratic values, rule of law, people to people ties, based on mutual trust, shared interest
00:37and strategic autonomy, aimed at a free and open and inclusive and prosperous Indo-Pacific, intended to strengthen both countries
00:45and contribute to regional stability.
00:48But now just go beyond those words and look at the ground reality, the images on your television screen.
00:54So there is a U.S. drone maker, a United States drone maker, Pavarash, that signed a deal with Pakistan
01:01Army to provide unmanned aerial vehicles or UAVs to the Pakistani armed forces.
01:07The U.S. drone maker firm has met the most powerful man in Pakistan, Field Marshal Asim Munir, described by
01:14U.S. President Donald Trump as his favorite field marshal.
01:17And they've already received the first order. Weeks before, the company merges with a company backed by two sons of
01:25U.S. President Donald Trump.
01:27So the two sons of Donald Trump backing this company are Donald Trump Jr. and Eric Trump.
01:32The MOU between the U.S. firm and Pakistani armed forces is a framework for the sale of these unmanned
01:40aerial vehicles, cooperation including technology, pairing and potential local manufacturing of these U.S. drones in Pakistan, according to reports
01:49from Islamabad.
01:50This company in the U.S. produces American-made aerial and maritime unmanned systems, often described as modular, attrable and
02:01designed for contested environments.
02:05Now, let me give you a rough idea of some of the drones they manufacture.
02:08For example, the Matrix family.
02:11These are tactical FPV style, first-person view style quadcopters and they're backpackable.
02:18They can be in your backpack.
02:19The GPS denied, visual, inertial and navigation is what they have.
02:24Rapid deployment in a contested battlefield.
02:26And you can configure them whether for ISR, which is intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance operations, or for attack operations.
02:34Of course, depending on the battery pack that you have, the endurance is between 35 minutes and 70 minutes in
02:41the battlefield.
02:42Then, let's graduate to the Guardian family of drones.
02:45These are low-cost kinetic counter-UAS, or counter-unmanned aerial system interceptors, designed to defeat one-way attack drones
02:53and loitering munition.
02:55Some reports put unit cost around 5,000 U.S. dollars.
02:59Now, according to the information that's available in public domain, they are manual, semi-autonomous, and of course, can also
03:08be flown in other modes.
03:10Then, let's now talk about the Dragon or the X-Fort, the Dragon series.
03:14Now, these are heavy-lift, you know, virtual, vertical take-off and landing.
03:19VTOL, they can be used for logistics, they can be used for cargo, with payloads ranging from, depending on the
03:26kind of drones you buy or the kind of money you have, 50 kgs to 500 kgs, according to information
03:32in public domain.
03:33So, the ISR platform, intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance platform, maritime unmanned surface vessels, supporting autonomous software is all on the
03:43table.
03:43That's part of the conversation, according to reports that are coming in from Pakistan and reports in public domain.
03:50Pakistan operates a number of drones.
03:53By and large, the drones Pakistan operates are of Turkish origin and Chinese origin.
03:58For example, the Bayraktar drones, made in Turkey.
04:01These are Pakistan's main high-altitude, long-endurance armed UAVs.
04:06Pakistan doesn't have a very large number of these drones, but they seem to want to acquire more.
04:11The payload, as you well know, is about 1350 kgs, endurance is about 24 hours, used both for ISR, intelligence
04:19surveillance and reconnaissance, and also for strike.
04:22Then there are the Chinese made, the Wing Loong 2, made in China, main work, ISR, they're being used by
04:29Pakistani forces.
04:31Then the Bayraktar TB2, again made in Turkey, used both for ISR and strike capabilities.
04:38They have about two squadrons of the TB2s.
04:42Pakistan's own drone manufacturing is rather in a nascent state, so they have the Shahpar 1 and 2.
04:48Made in Pakistan, again, not long-endurance, but used both for ISR and strike capabilities.
04:53They have limited strike capabilities.
04:56But the bigger question we ask here on Battlecry, it's a challenge for India.
05:01Why is the United States arming a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror that shielded Osama bin Laden, the world's
05:10most wanted terrorist,
05:12barely 100 meters away from Pakistan Military Academy at Karkul in Abbottabad?
05:17And this, despite Osama bin Laden's role in 9-11 terror attacks, 3,000 American lives were lost,
05:23and yet, America continues to support Pakistan.
05:27Pakistan's double game in killing US troops in Afghanistan subsequently, post-9-11, for 20 years,
05:34Pakistan has played a double game.
05:36They've taken money from America, and Donald Trump knows this.
05:38He's written about US giving $33 billion of words to that effect to Pakistan,
05:43and Pakistan cheating the United States.
05:46Thousands of US lives were lost in Afghanistan.
05:48Pakistan has succeeded in fooling Americans for decades,
05:52from the F-16 fighter jets to the AMRAMS, the air-to-air missiles,
05:57and these missiles have been sold to Pakistan in the name of fighting terror,
06:01which terrorist organization has access to fighter jets,
06:05that they would need AMRAMS to combat terror, and yet America did that.
06:09They've been given modern tanks in the past,
06:12they've been given tactical and long-range strategic radars in the past,
06:16and now these drones.
06:18Has the US been arming Pakistan over decades, as some argue,
06:23ultimately to checkmate India, to ensure India's rise is kept in check,
06:29especially after India hit Pakistani air bases and terror camps during Operation Sindur,
06:35because that was an absolute game-changer in the manner in which India has responded
06:39to Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror,
06:42hitting not just Pakistani terror camps in Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir,
06:47but also in Pakistan's Punjab province,
06:49hitting Mureetke and Bahawalpur, the heart of Pakistan's Punjab,
06:52and multiple air bases across the country.
06:55And let me quickly bring in some of the finest voices on matters,
06:59military, those who know our adversary to the north and the west,
07:03very, very closely join, and keep India first.
07:06They keep India in their hearts.
07:08Group captain Augustine Wino, the former fighter pilot, flew the Mirages,
07:13understands the adversary very closely.
07:15Colonel Rohit Dev commanded his troops on the Pakistan border,
07:20understands the adversary well, and senior journalist Sandeep Unithan.
07:23Sandeep, drone sales to Pakistan, a cause for concern.
07:27First the F-16s, then the upgrades, then the AMRAMs in the name of fighting terror,
07:32radars, and now drones.
07:34Clearly, this isn't to fight terror, is it?
07:36Not at all, Gaurav. And you know, there's a pattern to this.
07:39Every time the U.S., every time Pakistan becomes a front-line ally for the U.S.,
07:44either in the war against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan or the global war on terror,
07:49you see a spike in arms sales to Pakistan.
07:52During the ZIA years, ZIA and Reagan, it was a billion dollars worth of arms,
07:56including F-16s.
07:58Musharraf and George Bush, it was three billion dollars.
08:01That was more arms sold in that one year, 2006, than from 1950 to that date,
08:08like half a century worth of arms in that one deal.
08:10And now you're seeing the doors opening to a new round of purchases
08:15between President Trump and his favorite field marshal, Asim Munir.
08:19You've seen $600 million plus for F-16 support.
08:23And now this very interesting drone deal that's come about with this Florida-based company
08:27where Asim Munir takes personal interest in this deal.
08:31He's meeting all these executives.
08:32There's obviously, there's more than meets the eye, Gaurav.
08:35And I think that there could be several more such deals in the days to come.
08:40Sir, India really needs to watch this very closely.
08:43Group captain, we know this is a post-operation Sindhu development.
08:47Pakistan Air Force realized it was no longer airborne on the 10th of May.
08:51Not their fighters, their bases flattened, their made-in-China and made-in-Turkey drones clearly failed.
08:59Can the US drone sale be seen as a weapon to battle, let's say,
09:04Tehreek-e-Taliban, Pakistan or Baloch Liberation Army?
09:07Or is this very clearly aimed at India, sir?
09:11Actually, Gaurav, there are three things to this.
09:14One is the strategic dimension.
09:17Second is the technological cooperation dimension, which is the second layer.
09:22Third, which you already covered, is the geopolitical angle.
09:26Now, let's just quickly see what is the strategic dimension to the whole thing.
09:31You have a US tech company called Powerless or whatever,
09:36which has signed an MOU with the Pakistan Army,
09:39to give exactly what?
09:42That is the strategic dimension.
09:44Exactly Dragon H1000, which is a thousand-pounder class,
09:48vertical takeoff and landing heavy lift drone, mind you, in the Neelam Valley.
09:54And going up to CH in Gaurav, it is going to play a big role.
09:59Similarly, Dragon H500, which is a 500-pound class,
10:02and Dragon H100, which is a 100-pound class.
10:04Second is X-Fort Spy, which you already talked about,
10:08a tactical ISR-oriented platform.
10:11Then is the Matrix series, I think it is 5.7, and blah, blah.
10:16And there is also a Guardian Interceptor.
10:20Guardian also, Gaurav, which you did not show in your imagery,
10:24is it also has got a backpack, wide-spectrum jammer,
10:31a counter-UAS, which is probably aimed at short-circuiting our drone,
10:39which is supposed to be, you know, at least jammer-proof to a large extent.
10:44Now, this is the strategic angle to the whole thing.
10:48Now, look at the money angle.
10:51Both, that is, you know, Trump Jr. and the other son,
10:56they are invested in this company,
10:59and that is the company which is going to be funding the whole project.
11:04If you remember Charlie Wilson's war,
11:06which Sandeep Unitan, you know, alluded to obliquely,
11:11Charlie Wilson funded the first jihad weaponization and arming
11:17in times of a Russian invasion into the Afghanistan and the borders of Pakistan.
11:26So, that is the second layer, or the technological cooperation layer.
11:31That's a very interesting point.
11:32That's a very interesting point you raise.
11:34So, companies linked to the U.S. president,
11:37his sons, you know, Trump Jr. and Eric Trump are stakeholders here.
11:43Colonel Dev, permit me for a moment to play the devil's advocate.
11:47More than 1,000 Pakistani soldiers and security forces personnel
11:51have been killed battling insurgencies,
11:53both in Khaybar Pakhtunkhwa and in Balochistan.
11:57They have fatalities virtually every week, including now.
12:00The drones, Pakistan may say, or some of their analysts are saying,
12:05will help in ISR, intelligence surveillance and reconnaissance,
12:09on TTP and BLA and target activation of insurgents
12:13in their very difficult, strong worlds where troops cannot reach.
12:16Right. So, Gaurav, I have a very pertinent question to ask through your show.
12:20Does India trust the immunity with Pakistan more
12:25or the friendship with the United States going into the future?
12:29I think such actions by the United States,
12:31whether it's for private investments in the defense sector,
12:34with a known stated adversary, with all concerns flagged by India,
12:39actually calls for a lot of decoupling measures to take place
12:42between India and U.S. in the coming years.
12:45Having said that, I think this particular deal,
12:47just because we struck in a way we struck in of Sindhu,
12:50just because the Turkish handlers of drones, you know,
12:54could not manage our sort of air assaults,
12:57and we had casualties of those crew from Turkey who were operating from Pakistan.
13:02I believe the assets which America holds in Pakistan,
13:06obviously there was one emeration of a hit in the Kirana Hills,
13:09all that combined, I believe Asif Munir has gone to Trump
13:13to ask for this particular sort of weapon system
13:17to be given to him on the garb of, you know, hitting the BLN and the others.
13:22It is more so to say that we will defend your assets.
13:26It gives a very uncanny, very, very uncanny.
13:29So I think it's much more strategic.
13:31Our problem statement is A, that this drone has been given not only as a drone,
13:36but also with manufacturing and technology transfer
13:38to be made in Pakistan is a concern.
13:41Our concern is that this country gets also similar cheap drones from China and others.
13:45There can't be reverse engineering and dual use and misuse of this drone by the Chinese,
13:50which creates a lot of, you know, concern in the Indian side.
13:55Coming to their personal level, it's for the capital L to see
13:57that, you know, the American brothers are involved with 9.9,
14:01just below the radar, short of SESC there,
14:03and also that both the companies,
14:05their entire merger of listing on Nasdaq
14:07through a reverse merger with Aureus Greenway,
14:10again, something to do with Golf,
14:12and then we have, you know, Unusual Machines,
14:15that's the name of the company,
14:16which has invested in the capital paid-up, capital part component of equity
14:21into, you know, Pavaras.
14:24And the total paid-up, which comes to about 50 million,
14:26there are signatures of the Trump family through and through.
14:29That's for the Capitol Hill.
14:30That's for them to investigate.
14:32Fair enough, that's for them to investigate.
14:34But I'm on the aspect, Sandeep,
14:37of the way the United States has been arming Pakistan over decades.
14:42Remember, the Stinger missiles that were given to Pakistan
14:46to be sent to Afghan Mujahideen to battle Soviet Union
14:49in the 1990s, or the, you know, 1980s and 90s.
14:54They were in 1999 used against Indian Air Force in Kargil
14:58by the Pakistan Army.
15:00So, we lost a helicopter, we lost a MiG-27, we lost a MiG-21.
15:04Of course, the MiG-27 was a flame-out.
15:05But we've lost both fighters and helicopters.
15:08The AMRAMs that were used, you know, post-Balakot,
15:13the Wing Commander Abhinandan's MiG-21,
15:16the radars that were used against India and Operation Sindur,
15:19there is a pattern of U.S. weapons that are being used
15:22against India in the name of fighting terror for Afghanistan.
15:26Absolutely.
15:27Gaurav, and the most shocking example of all of this
15:29that you've mentioned is the use of the detonators
15:31in the 1993 Bombay bomb blasts,
15:34where 272 Mumbai-cars were killed.
15:37This is, you know, when those RDX caches were unearthed,
15:41the detonators were found to be made in the U.S.
15:44This is in B. Raman's book.
15:46Yes.
15:46It's an explosive revelation where he said that
15:49they confronted the U.S. with this,
15:51the fact that these were U.S. detonators,
15:52and then it was traced down to consignments
15:55that had been sent to Pakistan
15:56during this 1979 to 1988 Operation Cyclone
16:01to be used against the Soviets in Afghanistan,
16:03but clearly the ISI had used it elsewhere.
16:06So there is always that danger of high-tech equipment
16:09that's sent into Pakistan being used against us,
16:12and primarily U.S. weapons.
16:14And we've seen that.
16:15There's a pattern, 1965, 1971, 1999,
16:18and this continuing terrorist infrastructure
16:22that's been used against us the last decade or so, Gaurav.
16:26So are there countermeasures that India can take
16:29or can just watch?
16:31Because Group Captain Vinod,
16:32how much of this U.S.-made ISR and strike drones,
16:36how much can they alter the battlefield?
16:39After all, the Wing Looms of China
16:41and the Bayraktavs of Turkey,
16:43they weren't really able to help Pakistan much
16:46during Operation Sindhur.
16:49Exactly.
16:49In fact, as I was watching your show,
16:52Garavan, you know we make a lot of drones,
16:54and I have a drone-making company.
16:59So as I was watching your show,
17:01I would request the PCR to put up that image
17:06or that video where Azeem Munir is looking through one bunker,
17:11and there is one spoon-looking thing.
17:15That is an OFC drone,
17:17a drone which is controlled using optical fiber cable.
17:22Now they have this.
17:23The OFC is manufactured by none other than Al Gore's company
17:27called Gore Cables.
17:28They make these specialized OFC cables.
17:32So this particular OFC-run drone
17:36has already reached the borders of Pakistan.
17:42OFC-driven drones cannot be jammed.
17:45In fact, they are electronically completely silent.
17:48Only problem is they have to do
17:50line-of-sight operations only.
17:52So this is the kind of cutting-edge technology
17:54that has been transferred.
17:56Now that is where the geopolitical angle is.
17:59And I'm sure in the post-processing,
18:04we will be able to show that video.
18:06The geopolitical angle is,
18:10you know, which is huge,
18:13is the U.S. gets its hand on Chinese drones.
18:18To me, I think this is the bigger danger for China
18:22than for India.
18:24Because China has given cutting-edge technology
18:26to Pakistan, hoping that they will not allow
18:30U.S. to come in contact with that particular technology,
18:33which U.S. surely will come
18:36because they want their footprint
18:37everywhere, wherever the Chinese drones are.
18:40And there are bases which are
18:42predominantly a drone-based
18:45bases in Pakistan,
18:46which means all the American,
18:50you know, CIA
18:52and those kind of operators
18:53who are tech-in operators,
18:56they will surely end up there.
18:57And China will have much more to lose.
19:01Okay.
19:01Girl, Dave, Pakistan may be a very poor country.
19:04Pakistan may not have enough money
19:06for people to, you know,
19:07make both ends meet
19:08or have two square meals a day.
19:09But when it comes to Pakistan Armed Forces,
19:12they are being armed with the latest,
19:15whether it's the latest submarines
19:17that they're getting from China,
19:18whether it's the latest fighter jets,
19:21including the fifth generation
19:22that they hope to acquire from China,
19:24or the drones that they were initially getting
19:27from Turkey and China,
19:28and now from the United States of America.
19:32So, Gaurav, this is a concern.
19:34It will remain a concern
19:35going into the future as well.
19:37My point is that people like Muneer
19:40and before as well in the hierarchy
19:42of the Pakistani military leadership,
19:44you know, they have been very used
19:46to franchises of kinds of McDonald's
19:48and PepsiCo in their own country.
19:50But now Muneer has, you know,
19:52probably upped the game.
19:54He has understood the, you know,
19:55significance of this drone industry.
19:57He would have invited co-production,
19:59and I'm quite sure there will be stakes
20:01in his favor as well.
20:03And it will not come out
20:04in public domain too soon.
20:05But these are some challenges
20:07which India faces today
20:09because the Pakistanis are willing
20:11to sell their own country
20:12to the, you know, bidder
20:13who can buy them shareholdings
20:15into their future kind of thing.
20:17So, I think Muneer is doing that
20:18because if you see the thin line
20:19of this declaration as well
20:21of this MOU,
20:22they initially said, you know,
20:23Pakistani officials,
20:24and when you keep going into AI mode
20:26to ask whether personal or military,
20:28there is an ambiguity hanging around
20:29to say it's about official
20:31defense headquarters, GHQ,
20:32and things like that.
20:33You look at the bigger picture, Sandeep,
20:35when India requires the GE404 engines,
20:39the supplies are delayed,
20:40and that adversely impacts
20:41our light combat aircraft.
20:43When you talk about, you know,
20:45the LCA Mark II or our AMCA,
20:48when we look at GE414 engines,
20:50whether we get them or not,
20:51we do not know.
20:52But when you look at Pakistan,
20:54they are getting the drones,
20:55they got the F-16s,
20:56they got the F-16 upgrade,
20:58they got the AMRAAM missiles,
21:00they got the radars.
21:01It just seems that America wants a Pakistan
21:05that remains militarily strong,
21:08and these are weapons not to combat terror.
21:11You don't need those powerful radars
21:13to combat terror.
21:14You need those powerful radars against India.
21:17Absolutely, Gaurav.
21:18And, you know,
21:18there is a point beyond which
21:20we must start asking very tough questions
21:22as to what we are going to do.
21:24Given our huge investment
21:26in the American military industrial complex
21:28with the GE404 and then the 414 engines,
21:31there are vast areas of our capability
21:34that have been, you know,
21:36completely taken over
21:37by the U.S. military industrial complex,
21:38and one of those is our entire
21:41anti-subbrain warfare architecture.
21:43It is all U.S. in origin.
21:45We moved from a Soviet and Russian
21:47ASW set of platforms,
21:50helicopters,
21:50and long-range maritime patrol aircraft
21:52to American,
21:53the P-8Is,
21:55the Romeo helicopters,
21:57the MQ-9s.
21:59You know, all of these,
22:01now we must ask,
22:03at what point do we start
22:04preparing for the worst?
22:06And which is, you know, sanctions.
22:09We are seeing the kind of pressure
22:10that's been applied on us
22:11for not buying Russian oil.
22:13Could this in the future
22:14turn into sanctions of the kind
22:16that we've seen during Operation Parakram?
22:18And this only emphasizes
22:21Atmanirwar Bharat Gaurav.
22:22We have no option
22:23but to build our own,
22:24feel our own systems.
22:26Oh, absolutely.
22:27This over-reliance on American systems,
22:29and we've suffered in the past.
22:30Sandeep and I have reported this.
22:32Group Captain Vinod and
22:33Colonel Dev were in the army that time.
22:35We did the 1998 Pokhran tests,
22:38Groupie Vinod,
22:38and you would remember
22:40our entire Seeking and Sea Harrier fleet
22:43of the Indian Navy.
22:44It was grounded
22:46because we wouldn't get spares
22:47because of, you know,
22:49American and British sanctions.
22:51And yet we go and invest more
22:53in American technology.
22:54And I know we need American technology.
22:56And I know
22:56to be a $30 trillion economy
22:59by 2047,
23:00we need access to American markets.
23:01But somewhere down the line,
23:03we also need to push back
23:05against what Pakistan,
23:06America seems to be doing
23:07with Pakistan.
23:09And absolutely.
23:11In fact, look at the funny part.
23:12Americans went and destroyed
23:13in Iran F-15s.
23:17Their own aeroplanes.
23:18So, they are,
23:20you know, like,
23:22you know, Sandeep covered.
23:24MICC is happy
23:25pitching both sides
23:27because the more you destroy,
23:29the more you will buy.
23:30American equipment
23:31or otherwise on either side.
23:33A.
23:34B.
23:34Most importantly, Gaurav,
23:35is the aspect of
23:38the technological cooperation.
23:41And that is what is irking me.
23:42Because the word
23:43technological cooperation
23:45is a much bigger fish to fry.
23:48Now, the technological cooperation...
23:50I've run out of time
23:51on this part of battle cry.
23:54But India really needs
23:56to walk that tight rope.
23:58We have to be
23:59Atmanirbhar in defense.
24:01And while you keep,
24:02you keep an eye on your enemy,
24:03you know,
24:04you keep an eye on your friends
24:06and see what your friends
24:07are doing
24:08with your enemies.
24:10And we'll be tracking
24:10that story very closely.
24:12That is all I have for you
24:13on this India First
24:14special broadcast.
24:15Many thanks for watching.
24:16News and updates
24:16continue on India Today.
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