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00:04Welcome to an epic new season of Dragon's Den.
00:11I'll take both of those.
00:14Now sometimes it doesn't just rain, it just pours.
00:17Brand builder Drew Scott is back in the den.
00:19Give a cheers to the dragons, thank you for bringing me back.
00:22Welcome back.
00:22But this time for every episode.
00:25Whoa, hey!
00:28With Six Dragons, tensions run high.
00:31Just because it sounds too good to be true, usually it is too good to be true.
00:34It really is about projected sales.
00:36Can I pay you in projected money?
00:38No.
00:39Watch as change makers come to launch their dreams.
00:43I would say we're disrupting an existing industry.
00:45I love when young people have the spirit and enthusiasm that you have.
00:50This is truly innovative, what you have here.
00:52I'm shocked that nobody's done it before.
00:53Sharing life-changing stories that drive them.
00:57I ended up in a battle with cancer.
00:58That was a really, really low point in my life.
01:00That moment changed absolutely everything for our family.
01:04We're going to be an inspiration for so many people.
01:06This is a great idea.
01:07Anybody who can start a business for $150 and grow to almost a million, all in.
01:12Exactly, bet on her all day.
01:14And the brightest will leave with more cash than ever before.
01:17I'd offer $14 million for 10%.
01:20$14 million.
01:22Tris, hear that?
01:23Oh, boy.
01:25This season of celebrating innovators starts now.
01:44Listen, I'm the spiciest man in the world.
01:46The Duke of Delicious, the Kaiser of Curry, the man who invented cooking, but most importantly, I'm the spice king.
01:52When companies want flavor.
01:54You know who they call?
01:54The spice king.
01:55Why?
01:56Because I'm going to get them right.
01:57You know I'm going to get you right.
02:00To start the season off, a Peterborough man looking to spice things up and whet the dragon's appetite for a
02:07deal.
02:08Hello.
02:09Come on.
02:10You got it.
02:11You got it.
02:11That's what I should have worn.
02:13He's happening.
02:15I go by the name of Spice King.
02:20Wow.
02:21Wow.
02:21Yeah.
02:23Spice, spicy, spicy, baby.
02:25I'm the type that'll spice everything.
02:27Wow.
02:28Oh.
02:29Come on.
02:31Great job.
02:32Dragons, what you just experienced is flavor turned into a global business.
02:38You guys look fabulous, by the way.
02:40I'm the spice king, Keith Loren, and today we're seeking $300,000 in exchange for 15% of the business.
02:47Whoa.
02:47I got to take these off.
02:48I can't see my book.
02:50That's spicy.
02:50Exactly.
02:50These aren't prescription.
02:52People all over the world are looking for bold, global flavors, but they lack the access or time to create
02:56it.
02:57So guess what we did?
02:58Created flavors.
02:59Yeah.
02:59We created a whole new category of snacking.
03:03You have to take them off, Michelle.
03:04You can't see.
03:05I'm just doubling up.
03:06This is working for me.
03:08So these are the world's first meal-inspired plantain chips.
03:12And we have bold flavors like Jamaican oxtail, curry chicken, garlic, truffle butter, and more.
03:17Jamaican oxtail.
03:18Oxtail.
03:19But wait, there's more.
03:20But wait, there's more.
03:21We also have luxury spice blends that are so HD, so dynamic, they can literally make hot water taste like
03:28a delicious meal.
03:29What?
03:29And I got a little something extra saucy for our first dragon investor.
03:34Oh.
03:35Oh.
03:37I'm in.
03:38So let's get spicy, baby.
03:39All right.
03:40Let's get spicy.
03:41Thank you so much.
03:42Keith currently has ten varieties of seasoning blends that sell online for about $16 a bottle.
03:48The plantain chips come in five flavors and sell for around $8 a bag.
03:53Wow, that is flavorful.
03:54Truffle.
03:55Just love that you're bringing global flavor and excitement to food.
04:00So that's great.
04:01Oxtail is amazing, by the way.
04:03So tell me about the Caribbean aspect of it.
04:05I have a very mixed background from Spain, Egypt, Jamaica.
04:09That's where you'll see the influence in all of our spice blends.
04:12So, so far, working on our Canadian distribution.
04:15But we've got major distribution in the United States.
04:18Mmm.
04:18We've got Walmart, Publix, Food Lion.
04:21How many Wal-Mart?
04:21How many doors are you?
04:22It'll be about a thousand stores that is going to come through this fall.
04:26This fall.
04:26So you've got peels from them?
04:28And they put you in their full rotation?
04:30I'm on a Wal-Mart website.
04:33And so tell us about you, Keith.
04:35Well, thank you.
04:35Well, I studied culinary arts and food science at the Culinary Institute of America in Hyde Park, New York.
04:40I got the opportunity to cook for the Royal Family in Abu Dhabi.
04:43I've worked at Food Network Studios designing recipes behind the scenes.
04:46So when people want flavor, they come to the Spice King.
04:49I mean, I'm just looking at your packaging, Keith.
04:52Do you think that your sodium and your fat content are a little out of control?
04:57I don't think so.
04:58So I think that they're spiced well.
05:00Like most consumers do today, they turn it around and they'll look at close to 300 calories for a bag,
05:0533% sodium content.
05:07They'll look at your 29% saturated fats.
05:10You do have challenges with your ingredient deck.
05:13And I think that's why you're getting such a high profile of flavor.
05:17So tell me how you address the need for people who are trying to eat a little more healthily.
05:21We have an organic collection, but these flavors are for the real cooks.
05:25Yeah.
05:25I agree with you.
05:26You gotta use what you gotta use.
05:27And those people don't care.
05:28They wanted flavor.
05:30You can't have everything.
05:32When people see oxtail in a bag, they're gonna run and grab that flavor.
05:37Yeah, I don't care about the sodium.
05:38They don't care.
05:38I just want to eat oxtail.
05:39You gotta use what you got to use to get that flavor.
05:42People want to know, girl, who cooked that?
05:44What'd you put in that food?
05:45They love it.
05:46You can do the organic.
05:48Yeah, we got that too.
05:49I'm not talking about organic.
05:50I'm talking about palm oil, sodium content, fat content.
05:55There's a way to get high flavor without adding those ingredients, without adding a lot of costs.
06:00These are just the first iteration, and we already got the largest retailers in the world that say,
06:05yes, Spice King, we want these products.
06:08Have you sold any?
06:08We have the low sodium stuff.
06:10Have you sold any?
06:11Yes.
06:12So we're anticipating $2.2 million in revenue in our first full year of being in stores.
06:17Anticipating?
06:17You'll have the purchase orders or you have?
06:19We have them, but we have to fulfill.
06:21You have to deliver.
06:21We have to fulfill and deliver.
06:23Yes.
06:23What were your numbers before this year, before Walmart?
06:25So we just launched the Spices in 2025 in spring.
06:29So far, we have $275,000 in revenue just with our online, and we haven't even debuted the chips yet.
06:36So it's actually kind of difficult to sell $300,000 of Spices.
06:39Correct.
06:39So how did you do that?
06:41So when people think of the Spice King, they think of one of our jingles.
06:44You know, I'mma get you right.
06:47Hmm.
06:49You're a natural entertainer, but in some of our questions, we just need an answer.
06:53Sure.
06:53You've had $275,000 in sales.
06:55Yes.
06:56You have projections of $2.2 million with Walmart, Publix, and that'll be later this year.
06:59Yes.
07:00What have you put into this yourself?
07:01So I don't look like what I've been through, but this is not our first iteration of Spices.
07:08Back in 2023, we got taken advantage of by one of our major distributors, and I had to start completely
07:14over.
07:15I lost everything.
07:16I sold all my gold.
07:17I sold my cars.
07:18I got rid of my house.
07:19Everything.
07:20And I put every dime into the products that you're tasting now.
07:23Listen, you're resilient, man.
07:25We're too lit to quit.
07:27Too lit to quit.
07:28There you go.
07:30So Keith, there's a...
07:31I'll tell you what I'm struggling with, Keith.
07:34When you're talking to somebody about $300,000 and a $2 million valuation, there's a serious undertone.
07:40And I'm struggling to just understand how serious you are.
07:43I want to understand your unit economics.
07:45Oh, sure.
07:45I want to understand why you're worth $2 million.
07:48What's your margin?
07:50After all of the expenses, we're left with 40%.
07:5335% to 40%.
07:54That's net.
07:55That's net.
07:55That's not gross.
07:56What's your gross margin, then?
07:59Um...
08:00Say that again?
08:01What's your gross margin that you have to then build, pay for everything with?
08:0635%.
08:0735%.
08:07Mm-hmm.
08:08So the gross margin has to be bigger than the net.
08:10You're not going to make any money.
08:11But also, like, the gross margin has to be bigger than the net.
08:14Yeah, that's what I'm...
08:15Because what you're taking is revenue.
08:16He's saying it's 35%.
08:18But then he's saying the profit margin is 40%.
08:20So...
08:21It's impossible.
08:22It costs us $0.80 to manufacture the chips.
08:24Yeah, okay.
08:25We retail it at $1.60.
08:26You wholesale it.
08:27We wholesale.
08:28Yes.
08:28We wholesale it at $1.60.
08:30That $0.80 is what you're making in between.
08:32Correct.
08:33But that's a 50% gross margin.
08:34He's got a 50% gross margin.
08:35Very good.
08:36But, Keith, this is what I'm talking about.
08:37You need to know those numbers.
08:39Yeah.
08:39So just on my perspective, I love the flavor.
08:41I wish there was a healthier ingredient mix in the content.
08:46I love the direction that you're going.
08:48But for me, it just doesn't seem like there's the substance for what I want to have in this.
08:52So for those reasons, I'm out.
08:56Didn't you start a spice company before?
08:59Yes.
08:59You have proof, no?
09:00Yes.
09:00How did that company do?
09:01Back in 2023, we grossed over $5 million.
09:05What?
09:05$5 million?
09:06Yes.
09:06With our spices alone.
09:08Well, what happened to that company?
09:10I want to know about that.
09:11You should have told us some of that.
09:12I mean...
09:13But it's our job to ask the questions, though.
09:15We can't ask questions we don't know about, right?
09:17Like, it's their job to bring forward things that can entice us to ask the right questions.
09:21But there's times when we've got to dig the answer out, right?
09:25That's fair.
09:25But you need to absolutely understand what the questions are going to be before they're even asked.
09:30Because we weren't asking hard questions.
09:31Right.
09:31These weren't tricky questions.
09:33Words really matter.
09:34Got lots of energy and enthusiasm.
09:36But you don't know your numbers the way you need to know your numbers.
09:39And for that reason, I'm going to be out.
09:42Arlene, you don't want that jacket?
09:45All of these things can be modified with your guidance.
09:48Don't modify anything, man.
09:49No.
09:49Don't listen to just...
09:51You got to listen to your customers.
09:53Who's buying this and why they're buying this?
09:54That I agree with, Wes.
09:56I do think that there is a gap in the marketplace for the products.
09:59But you don't have the proof that you have it right yet.
10:03And that is a big risk for $300,000.
10:08I'm out.
10:11I think for me, I think I would focus just on the chips.
10:14Okay.
10:15So I'm going to be out for now.
10:16But keep your persistence.
10:21There's something special about you.
10:22And don't ever lose the showmanship that you've got.
10:25You are the spice king.
10:26I believe in you.
10:27I'm not ready to put on that jacket right now.
10:29But man, I wish you luck.
10:37There's a lot of businesses that came here, pre-revenue, very early.
10:41And they got investment.
10:43And so that hasn't really deterred us in the past.
10:46I like the idea of getting my culture, the Caribbean culture, to the masses.
10:51And that's what this product is doing.
10:53So I'll give you $300,000 for 40%.
10:57Woo!
10:59Wes, would you do 30%?
11:02No, sir.
11:04You got to think about it.
11:05The spice king and the king of Bay Street getting together.
11:09That is a match made in heaven.
11:10Two kings.
11:11The spicy king.
11:12Can't have a match better than that.
11:15Let me think about that.
11:20You have yourself a deal.
11:21You're the choice.
11:22Well done.
11:23Well done, brother.
11:25Hey!
11:25Put that jacket on, Wes.
11:27Get it on.
11:28Put the jacket on.
11:28Let's go.
11:29Let's go.
11:29I just wanted a jacket.
11:31I wanted a bling.
11:32That's the most expensive jacket you'll have ever bought.
11:35Y'all are just jealous.
11:37Oh, yeah.
11:38Kick it.
11:39All right.
11:39The bling king.
11:40The bling king.
11:41Do a dance.
11:41Do a dance.
11:42Come on.
11:43Oh, yeah.
11:44Wes has the moves.
11:46Yeah.
11:46Hey.
11:47Come on.
11:48Hey.
11:48There it is.
11:49Come on.
11:51I'm spicy, baby.
11:52I'm spicy, baby.
11:54I'm spicy, baby.
11:55I'm spicy, baby.
11:56I'm spicy, baby.
11:58I'm spicy, baby.
11:58I'm trying to get a spicy.
11:59Woo!
12:00Oh, they were tough.
12:02Oh, my God.
12:03Listen, we bought the heat.
12:04We danced on our feet.
12:06We bought the flavor, and we found a savior with Wes.
12:10And for you out there, Spice King's gonna get you right.
12:13You know I'm gonna get you right.
12:16Yeah.
12:18Oh, yeah.
12:19Your hands are gonna cream so hard.
12:25This is our male fertility power path.
12:28Finally, a company where the man has to take the pill, too.
12:31Right?
12:44Here to grow their business.
12:46I want everybody who wants to have a family to be able to have the opportunities.
12:51We built this company to try to help people prevent the heartbreak that I went through so that they can
12:58be proactive for their fertility health.
12:59Don't ruin your makeup before you go out.
13:01I know, I know.
13:02No, I can't talk about my journey.
13:03Yeah.
13:03No, you're good.
13:04You're good.
13:06Now, they've conceived a plan to deliver big returns to the Dragons.
13:11Hi, Dragons.
13:13I'm Sam.
13:14And I'm Brianna.
13:15We're the co-founders of Bird and Bee.
13:18We are here asking for $1 million for 4% of the company.
13:23Whoa.
13:25Okay.
13:254%.
13:26When couples try to have a baby, this is the typical female experience.
13:31Bottle clutter, ingredient confusion, and high cost.
13:35Hmm.
13:36And this is the typical male experience.
13:40Whoa.
13:41Nothing.
13:41Even though male factor infertility is the number one reason couples need IVF in Canada.
13:48So, we built Bird and Bee.
13:53We are a clinically-backed fertility brand providing at-home screening tests and prenatal supplements for both sides of the
14:02equation.
14:02Hmm.
14:04This is our Female Fertility Power Pack, formulated for exact standards that fertility doctors actually recommend to their patients.
14:11And this is our Male Fertility Power Pack, clinically tested to improve sperm motility by 52%.
14:20Finally, a company where the man has to take the pill too.
14:23Right?
14:24Dragons, look at the impact this product has after just three months.
14:29Oh, that's a lot of sperm.
14:31They're swimming a lot better.
14:33Backstroking and everything.
14:34By building Bird and Bee, I was actually able to build my own family.
14:39And we're on a mission to help others do the same.
14:42And we'd love for you to join us.
14:44What do we got here?
14:45Bird and Bee sells a variety of products from sperm and ovulation tests to fertility-boosting supplement blends of vitamins
14:53and minerals.
14:54This is just like a vitamin, right?
14:55It's just like a vitamin.
14:57Are you sure?
14:57And men and women can take it.
14:58It's just a vitamin.
14:58Yes.
14:59Absolutely.
14:59Absolutely not.
15:02Their best sellers are the Fertility Supplement Packs.
15:05A 30-day supply retails for about $90.
15:08My wife and I tried for years and could not get pregnant.
15:12And so we did IVF.
15:14Fortunately for us, we had success.
15:15But I think this is amazing.
15:18Congratulations.
15:18Thank you so much for sharing that with us.
15:20So that's some big promises you're making.
15:2252% increase in sperm count.
15:26So we have done three clinical studies so far.
15:29We enrolled patients who were diagnosed with male factor infertility.
15:34And they were given a semen analysis in clinic.
15:36They took our male fertility product for three months and they were given a repeat semen analysis.
15:43And their progressive motility, which is the way the sperm move towards the egg, it went up by 52%.
15:49So, I mean, you're addressing a very big issue right now because fertility rates are declining globally.
15:54I was an early investor in a company that did literally exactly the same thing.
15:58And the challenge that they had was getting women in particular at the exact point of time that they wanted
16:04to conceive.
16:05Is that something that you have experienced as well?
16:07Yeah.
16:07Like all of the products previously, they have photos of babies.
16:11It's designed for pregnancy.
16:12We've designed to optimize sperm quality and egg quality upstream.
16:17We get them pregnant.
16:19Hopefully.
16:20That's the goal.
16:21And then they trust us and they love our product.
16:25They love our experience.
16:26So we maintain them through pregnancy as well as postpartum.
16:29You're calling it upstream.
16:30Everybody would say that they're trying to get them before they want to decide to get pregnant.
16:33I don't think that's unique.
16:34When you say we get them pregnant, that's a claim you cannot make.
16:39You're not getting them pregnant.
16:40Yeah, so you're absolutely right.
16:42We don't say get pregnant quick.
16:44We actually don't even put photos of pregnant bellies or babies on our website so that we don't trigger people
16:52because we truly understand this.
16:55Tell us a little bit about your backgrounds.
16:56So I ran an agency that was focused on big beauty brands.
17:01I was going through my own fertility journey with miscarriage and PCOS, and I realized that someone could navigate a
17:1012-step skincare routine very easily, but they weren't even able to track their own ovulation.
17:16And I knew that we could apply the same logic to the reproductive health space and have a bigger impact.
17:24How about you, Brianna?
17:24I was head of product at a health tech company, and I was going through my own infertility journey.
17:30And building this company literally lit a fire in me, and I was able to find a new purpose from
17:38all that pain.
17:39Can you guys break down your sales for us?
17:41So our first year in business was 2022.
17:44We did $2.7 million.
17:47The first year?
17:48In our first year.
17:50Second year was $7 million.
17:52Our third year was $13.7 million.
17:55And 2025 was $22.6 million.
17:58Wow.
17:59Damn, mic drop.
18:00Good job.
18:01Good job.
18:02Good job.
18:02Amazing.
18:03What are you projecting for this year?
18:05$32 million.
18:06Wow, good for you guys.
18:07That's amazing.
18:08What did you make on the 22 and a half?
18:10Last year we did 1% EBITDA margin.
18:15So we were just 1% EBITDA margin.
18:17What happened?
18:17Why so low?
18:18We have just in the last nine months become profitable.
18:22Why?
18:23Why?
18:24So one of our biggest challenges has being able to buy enough inventory to get those cost of goods down.
18:31So we're now getting to the point where we can start placing much larger orders.
18:35How much debt do you have on the business, if any?
18:37We have about $3 million of debt that we took on to help support larger inventory buys.
18:42So the payback's going to be a while.
18:44I mean, you've got a $25 million valuation, $3 million in debt.
18:48You're not yet profitable.
18:49As investors, we look at this and go, okay, so when do we get our money back?
18:53So I'm going to be out.
18:56Is there anything you're not telling us that's scaring you with your business model, which is one of the reasons
19:00you're here aside from just getting a million bucks towards what you're doing?
19:03Well, one of the big opportunities we have right now is we're at this pivotal point of scaling.
19:08And we have not tackled retail in a meaningful way yet.
19:14But you haven't figured out how to make the business model successful yet.
19:18I'm going to be out.
19:20Having a business doing $22 million with like a 1% EBITDA margin suggests that there's a massive cost, an
19:28operational, structural problem.
19:30For that reason, I'm going to be out.
19:34There's something not lining up.
19:36It's out of balance.
19:37So for that reason, I'm out.
19:38Yeah.
19:39So our inventory is complex and it has been a huge inhibitor of our growth as well.
19:44I'm not scared.
19:44I've seen a lot of e-commerce businesses scale.
19:47Like the fact that you have gotten to break even, you know, that doesn't bother me.
19:51But to Arlene's point, when you have to acquire a customer at a very specific moment in time in their
19:57life, it's actually very difficult to identify.
20:00Those costs get very high.
20:02But it's not going to be a deal for me today.
20:05I really think you have something here.
20:07I love that you came in with clinical studies.
20:11Like, I like when science is actually being used, right?
20:15But hey, sometimes it doesn't go according to plan as far as the financials go.
20:20But I totally love your transparency and your honesty and you knew your numbers.
20:25I'll help you get into retail.
20:27I'll offer you a million dollars for 2% royalty.
20:30I don't want any equity.
20:32Okay.
20:35Is the royalty on net revenue or on net profit?
20:41Revenue.
20:42On net revenue?
20:43Mm-hmm.
20:43Top line.
20:45Hard to do a royalty at 1% even though.
20:47Give them my money.
20:50Okay.
20:50Can we have a minute to discuss?
20:52Okay.
20:55Hey, Manjit, how are they going to pay you?
20:56They have no money and they have debt.
20:57How are they going to afford a royalty when they can't make money?
21:02I don't get it.
21:02I know, but then they're going to starve themselves in the process.
21:06Can I ask that?
21:06Yeah.
21:07Okay.
21:08Yeah.
21:09So you've got an offer on the table.
21:14Manjit, we would love to work with you.
21:16Great.
21:17I'm looking forward to it.
21:18That was great.
21:19Dutza.
21:21I hope you can make it work.
21:23Make it shake hands, too, if you want.
21:24Okay, okay, okay.
21:25Great job, guys.
21:26You have a great brand.
21:30Wow.
21:30How are they going to pay you?
21:31I could have used this years ago.
21:33We'll figure it out.
21:33How are they going to pay you?
21:34That's why I didn't want the equity.
21:40Milkweed.
21:41A lot of farmers don't like it because it competes with their crop.
21:44And you've found a way to actually turn it into an agricultural product.
21:47I'm kind of shocked that nobody's done it before.
22:02Next, let's see if the Dragons can see through the weeds
22:05and cozy up to this innovative solution.
22:10Hello, Dragons.
22:11My name is Gabriel Gouveia.
22:12I'm out of Quebec City, and today I'm asking for $100,000
22:17in exchange of 20% of my company, Laskley.
22:21So let me introduce Milkweed, Canada's most underrated wild plant.
22:28Milkweed fibers are 25% warmer than Goosedown,
22:32three times warmer than polyester, naturally waterproof.
22:35It is really a super material that we use as insulation
22:39in more than 40 outdoor products we design, manufacture, and distribute ourselves.
22:45Like this jacket right there that I'm wearing, and that I will take off right now
22:49because I'm really sweating and I want to finish this pitch alive.
22:54All jokes aside, Milkweed is the only host plant of an endangered North American pollinator, the monarch butterfly.
23:02Our whole business model has been designed to really protect them and help safeguard them.
23:08We plant farm Milkweed commercially in huge plantations that now serve as protected habitats for endangered monarchs.
23:16And outdoor gear is really just the start for us because there's so many products, so many raw materials that
23:23we can make with Milkweed,
23:24from housing insulation to beddings, and even skin care products.
23:29I could talk about it for hours, but I'll stop right there and let you discover Milkweed by yourself with
23:34the gifts I've prepared for you.
23:37You each have a material board showing the finished raw materials that we use, some of our best sellers, so
23:42insoles, mittens, and neck warmers.
23:45Instead of using Animal Down, Laskley products utilize Milkweed fibers to insulate the more than 40 winter products they've designed.
23:54It has been tested by customers in the Arctic down to minus 50 Celsius.
23:58Like mittens, which sell for $100, and Gabriel's vest retailing at $200.
24:04This is exceptionally soft.
24:06Yes, it is.
24:08Like this silk, like feels really beautiful to touch.
24:11These gloves are so soft.
24:13That's a crazy variety of products here.
24:15Yeah, that's what's special.
24:16Gabriel, tell me about your brand.
24:17Yeah.
24:18What does Laskley mean?
24:19We're from Quebec.
24:21So in French, Milkweed is called Asclepiade or Laskleypiade.
24:25Okay.
24:25So we really wanted to build a brand that's really around the plant.
24:29Gabriel, isn't this considered like an invasive weed by most?
24:32And you've found a way to actually turn it into a productive agricultural product.
24:37That's fascinating to me.
24:38Exactly.
24:39A lot of farmers don't like it because it competes with their crop.
24:43Yeah.
24:43But it can also be grown with some of their marginal land that don't have use anymore or are not
24:49fertile anymore.
24:50Where is this land?
24:52Mostly in Quebec, a little bit in Ontario.
24:54And we're the only place in the world in Canada that grows milkweed commercially.
24:58Really?
24:59Yeah.
24:59I'm kind of shocked that nobody's done it before.
25:02Actually, First Nations have been using this plant for like millennia before us.
25:06My dad, he has some Wendat heritage.
25:10And when I was really little, my dad always brought me in the woods.
25:13He knew all the wild plants.
25:15So he kind of showed me.
25:18Yeah, it just feels like this is something that would be very much a First Nations initiative
25:22in terms of understanding the land and the value of the weeds that are growing on there.
25:26It's really fascinating.
25:27That was my first inspiration.
25:29But the defining thing that got me going is that a few years ago, I got diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma,
25:38which is blood cancer.
25:40I was stage four B.
25:41Oh, gee.
25:42And I thought to myself, you know, if I'm like something goes wrong,
25:48I really want to make sure that I can end it like proud of myself.
25:52How is your cancer today?
25:54Fortunately, I'm healthy today.
25:56So I'm in remission.
25:57Yeah, well done.
25:58Yeah, thank you very much.
25:59This was fantastic.
26:00So what's your lifetime sales?
26:02First year, we did $400,000 at a $90,000 loss.
26:09Yeah.
26:10Second year, we did $900,000 for a $50,000 profit.
26:17Not great.
26:18Things got a lot better.
26:19Yeah.
26:19Not great, but still getting better.
26:20Cut the loss.
26:21And this year, we're already at $1.1 million.
26:24Wow.
26:25Good for you.
26:25Yeah, thanks.
26:26So getting like to $1.5, $1.6 by the end of the year.
26:30And we're projecting a profit of around $150,000.
26:34Nice.
26:34So Gabriel, I think this is truly innovative, what you have here.
26:39Why not have the manufacturing and the farming part and then sell this to all these outerwear
26:45brands?
26:45Why do the whole step on becoming the end manufacturing?
26:48You know, if we just do the material manufacturing, we have to be profitable there.
26:52And it was a problem because I'm not the first one who tried to do something with milkweed.
26:57My predecessors, the mistake they made, they kind of just stayed in their little corner.
27:02So you're going to have to get very good at producing the end product because these are
27:06like, they're nice, but they could still like to compete with technical gear.
27:10There's still things in the sewing and the outer layer that will probably need to be refined.
27:14What were the mistakes that the other people in this industry made before you that
27:17were doing it that made them say, I'm out?
27:19I think the most important mistake is making like jackets and big products first, because
27:24it's really difficult to supply a vast quantity of silk when your agricultural step is not
27:31figured out.
27:32So they went bankrupt and the farmers, they kind of went orphaned with nobody to buy it.
27:38So what I did first was like making mittens and really small products.
27:41But what were they paying for the silk?
27:44I don't know if you do it per kilo.
27:45Yeah, they were paying about $20 per kilogram even less.
27:49And now what are you paying?
27:49I'm paying $85.
27:51$85 a kilogram?
27:53Yeah.
27:53And that's where my smallest product strategy works because I don't have to use that much
27:57silk.
27:59I'm sorry.
28:00Did I hear that wrong?
28:01They were paying $20 and you're paying $85?
28:03Yeah.
28:04Why?
28:05They were getting grants from the government and that's why they were able to sell at $20.
28:08But it also seems like you should be the price setter because you're the only buyer.
28:14Exactly.
28:14It needs volume though.
28:15But how could this be more expensive than down?
28:18Yeah.
28:18Like truly, it's an animal, it's a whole processing.
28:22Yeah.
28:22We currently have a project where we want to create our own fields.
28:27We wrote an email to our customer base.
28:30A third of them told us that they could just give us land for free.
28:34Oh wow.
28:34And like we could plan there just for the cost, just for Monarchs.
28:38But it's a way to really get the cost down.
28:41Nobody's actually going to give you anything for free though.
28:43Just a tiny piece of advice.
28:46So part of this is my industry when it comes to insulation, when it comes to bedding, we've
28:49had thousands of products in the home space.
28:53But some of the numbers are not making sense to me.
28:55It looks like it's too expensive from the manufacturing or the harvesting side to what
28:59ends up being a pillow that people sleep on.
29:02I'm out.
29:03Okay.
29:05You know, I think you can build something here.
29:07And I think there's still just a lot of work to do on kind of the supply chain costs
29:12and then getting to the end product.
29:14So I'm out.
29:18Gabriel, well, thank you for teaching us that Milkweed has a utility.
29:24But I think there's still a lot to figure out on the product development side.
29:27I'm out.
29:31Gabriel, I'm going to make you an offer.
29:33I have lots of relationships with some of the largest outerwear manufacturers in Canada.
29:38We did a big deal with Hoo-Ha Apparel last year.
29:43So I will actually give you $100,000 for 20% because I think it's a fair valuation.
29:48And I think I can make this a really big success with you.
29:52Thank you very much.
29:55Arlene has a great offer on the table for you.
29:57I'm going to be out.
30:01Gabriel, it seems like there's lots of opportunity on the manufacturing, on the being an apparel company
30:06and so on.
30:08You've already got a great offer.
30:10And for that reason, I'm going to be out.
30:16I'm happy to accept the offer, which is what I came for.
30:20Super excited.
30:21You got a good partner.
30:22You got what you came for.
30:23Got a really great idea.
30:25And it's going to do very well.
30:26And I'm really excited about partnering with you.
30:28Thank you very much.
30:29Awesome.
30:29Good luck.
30:30Congratulations.
30:33There is something there and I love the story.
30:36Yeah, I do too.
30:37Arlene's in the weed business.
30:38Arlene is in the weed there.
30:42Two, one.
30:44Cheers.
30:45Love it.
30:46Love it.
30:46You're expecting me to drink this and then your valuation makes sense?
30:50Absolutely.
30:51100%.
30:51That's the only way it'll make sense.
30:58There's a new offer on the table this season.
31:02I'm Patricia Nielsen with AWS Canada.
31:05AWS is thrilled to award a $100,000 business grant to one of this season's pitchers.
31:13At AWS, we understand the challenges of starting a business.
31:17We're the world's leading cloud, but we began as a startup with a mission to make powerful technology available to
31:24anyone.
31:25And with Deep Roots in Canada, we help Canadian organizations of all sizes use technology like AI to build and
31:35scale their companies globally.
31:36Good luck to all the pitchers and we can't wait to see what you've created.
31:53Next up, partners here to prove that small products can pack a big punch.
31:59Hi, dragons.
32:00It's so nice to see you all.
32:02Hi.
32:03Hello.
32:04Wild Lot.
32:05Wild Lot.
32:06Hi.
32:06I'm Taylor.
32:07And I'm Ryan.
32:08And we're the founders of Wild Lot Farm Distillery located in beautiful Prince Edward County, Ontario.
32:14We're partners in business and partners in life.
32:17And we're here today seeking $1.5 million in exchange for 10% of our company.
32:23Whoa.
32:24Whoa.
32:24What?
32:24What kind of farm is this?
32:25This better be good.
32:28In 2020, we both got fired from our corporate jobs, traded cubicles for overalls, bought a rundown farm in the
32:35middle of nowhere.
32:36Oh, wow.
32:36That's rundown, all right.
32:37Yeah.
32:38Oh.
32:38Whoa.
32:40Yeah, and we built Wild Lot from the ground up.
32:42Oh.
32:43Well, that's pretty.
32:44Wow.
32:44That's beautiful.
32:45You're hired.
32:46Good for you guys.
32:47Sit back, relax, and introducing Wild Lot full bar strength cocktails.
32:54Nice.
32:55Premixed, ready to serve.
32:58Now, don't let their cuteness fool you.
33:00These cans pack a punch.
33:03Okay.
33:04At 20% alcohol content.
33:06No.
33:0620%.
33:07Okay, that's a plan.
33:0720%.
33:08Is that even legal?
33:09Yeah.
33:10So, ready to drink cocktails are the fastest growing segment in Canada, currently valued at over $2.7 billion.
33:17We've quickly positioned ourselves as a leader in this category with 14 innovative and delicious flavors.
33:2414.
33:25And we only use real simple ingredients like fresh pressed Ontario fruit juice from Niagara orchards and even honey from
33:32our beehives in our own backyard.
33:34A truly patriotic and truly local supply chain.
33:40I think we could maybe all use a drink.
33:42Yep.
33:42I think so.
33:43So, beside you, we have some delicious samples.
33:47Ooh.
33:47Taylor and Ryan say a single can, which retails for $9, serves three cocktails or nine one ounce shots.
33:54Shot, shot, shot, shot.
33:55Oh my goodness.
33:56Cheers, everybody.
33:57What is this one?
33:58Cheers.
33:59Cheers.
34:0021, my friends.
34:01Cheers.
34:02Two.
34:02One.
34:04Love it.
34:05Love it.
34:06Sweet.
34:07Oh, yeah.
34:07I love when I get to drink on the job.
34:09Yeah.
34:09It's really nice and it doesn't taste like there's like chemicals in here.
34:13Oh, that's really good.
34:14Oh, yeah.
34:14I'm like blown away by your flavor.
34:16Like blown away.
34:17They're so good.
34:19Like honestly, so good.
34:20Thank you so much.
34:21That's delicious.
34:22Thank you very much.
34:22I was looking at the side and it says there's three drinks per can.
34:26Exactly.
34:26Times four cans and you're expecting me to drink this and then your valuation makes sense?
34:31Absolutely.
34:32100%.
34:32Yeah.
34:33That's the only way it'll make sense.
34:35So, why do you guys have 14 SKUs?
34:38That's a lot.
34:40Yes.
34:41So, yeah.
34:41So, consumers are looking for variety.
34:45We're kind of surprised at some of the SKUs that are being picked up by the biggest retailer
34:50in Canada.
34:52We've went from one listing at the LCBO this past year to six listings at the LCBO by the
34:58end of 2026.
34:59Amazing.
34:59Good for you guys.
35:01Guys, I really like your story.
35:03Like climb the ladder, get fired, build your own damn ladder and listen when the wild
35:08calls.
35:09I love that you guys have done that.
35:11I bet you're glad that you got fired today, right?
35:13It was the best thing that ever happened.
35:15Yeah.
35:15So, we both luckily got fired almost the same time.
35:20Yeah.
35:20This has been a dream for us to start our own business.
35:23My passion is brand building.
35:25Taylor's a trained chef.
35:27Trained chef, love food and Bev.
35:29So, yeah.
35:29It was a match made in heaven.
35:31It seems to me that your values are at the top of your list of what matters to you.
35:37Yes.
35:38So, we're up against giants.
35:39And that's why we needed to be a value-based brand that stood for something.
35:45And a brand that had a face.
35:48A brand that had a place.
35:51Can we talk about that place, Prince Edward County?
35:54Because that's a perfect location you chose.
35:57We like to say Prince Edward County is an adult playground.
36:00We are so lucky.
36:01We're in this small town.
36:03World-class restaurants, world-class hotels.
36:05We've been visiting for, what, 10 years?
36:08Since we've been together, essentially.
36:09Fell in love, rolling wheat fields, country.
36:12Yeah.
36:12How big are your facilities there?
36:14Like, how big is your property there?
36:15So, we have 35 acres.
36:17The dairy farm that we now have as our retail space and bottle shop is about 5,000 square feet.
36:23Do you own it?
36:24We own, yes, we own the land.
36:26So, the farm is a part of this deal?
36:28The farm and facilities are a part of this deal.
36:30And are you living on the land?
36:33We are.
36:33We are, yes.
36:34So, I mean, you're putting a lot on the line.
36:36You're prepared to give a partner a share in your business and your property where your home sits.
36:43Like, how are you feeling about that?
36:45That's a big decision.
36:46You're betting the farm.
36:47Scary.
36:48Obviously very scary.
36:49It's a good motivator.
36:50I had to put my home up at one point for a collateral on a loan.
36:53So, I know what that feels like.
36:55It's terrifying.
36:55Because it's terrifying.
36:56Absolutely.
36:56And it drives you to, like, work harder to protect the roof over your head.
37:00So, I get it.
37:01So, guys, let's get to the $15 million question.
37:04Right?
37:05It's like, tell me about your sales.
37:07So, we've been only in business for two full years.
37:11Okay.
37:11In our first full year, we did $800,000 in sales.
37:14Okay.
37:15In our second full year, we did $1.3 million in sales.
37:1920% net profit.
37:21So, you were profitable in year one.
37:22Year one, we were profitable.
37:24Good for you guys.
37:24Good for you guys.
37:25And what's the $1.5 for?
37:27As we evolved, we recognized that we wanted to scale beyond the farm.
37:32So, over the last several months, we've been playing catch up with purchase orders.
37:39It's been...
37:39It's been the most challenging two, three, four months in our entire relationship.
37:44Yeah.
37:44We need to put that money into inventory.
37:47Okay.
37:48I really like you guys.
37:50I love that you've created a name that describes you, your movement.
37:54I think it's a brilliant brand and clearly I'm enjoying it here.
37:59I think you've got a better partner on this panel here in the den.
38:03And I'm going to get out of the way.
38:04At this point, I'm going to be out.
38:07You guys faced adversity and you've built an amazing business from the ground up.
38:12But I think you have better partners up here.
38:14And as a result of that, I'm going to be out.
38:18Did you come here for Manjeet?
38:22We came here for the two of you.
38:24The dynamic duo.
38:26Good question.
38:26Can we do it together?
38:28I think there's something here.
38:29I'm here.
38:30I do too.
38:30There definitely is.
38:32Uh-oh.
38:33Okay.
38:33While they're brewing, distilling their offer, I'll do my piece.
38:39I mean, I said it earlier.
38:40I love the partnership.
38:42I love the risk taking.
38:43I don't want to take away that opportunity from another really good investor.
38:48But I'm going to be cheering you on.
38:50Yeah.
38:50I can't do on shelves what this duo can do for you.
38:54So for that reason, I'm out.
38:58So yeah, definitely Arlene and I are talking and we've got an offer for you.
39:03Okay.
39:03Love it.
39:04Go ahead.
39:05Okay.
39:06So I don't, we don't want to take the land.
39:09No.
39:09Because we feel like that's where your home is.
39:13Um, that's not really where our interest is.
39:15And so what we would offer you without the land included would be $1.5 million for 30% of
39:24the business.
39:26It keeps you guys with a roof over your head, not stressing about whether you're going to get evicted.
39:32And it keeps us focused on the business.
39:37Okay.
39:38Um, we would be prepared, um, to do 20% of the company for $2 million.
39:46Hmm.
39:4720% for two?
39:48For two.
39:49Um, yeah, guys, there's a lot of work left to do here.
39:53No.
39:54It's not worth $10 million today.
39:56Yeah.
39:57Hmm.
39:57Okay.
39:58Yeah.
39:59That was good.
40:00And I think we both believe in and see the potential for growth.
40:03Yeah.
40:04We feel, we feel the momentum.
40:05We feel the confidence behind our brand.
40:09And of course it would be a dream to have, to have the two of you.
40:12Are you saying yes or no?
40:13No, they're saying no.
40:14No.
40:14So you're comfortable with 20% or 10 million as the value?
40:1910 million as the value.
40:21As the value.
40:21Absolutely.
40:22Yeah.
40:23Guys, fellows, listen, they made you an offer that I thought was a decent offer.
40:29And you guys said no.
40:30And so I was talking to Michelle.
40:33We're prepared to do the 1.5, 15%, which give you a $10 million valuation.
40:39Including, you want the, you want the fund?
40:41That's your deal.
40:42No.
40:43Do you want the land?
40:44I would say if I wanted it, I would have said it.
40:46Like it's, you came for, for that full offer, right?
40:48They want your land too.
40:50No, no.
40:50I want the, we're buying what you're selling us.
40:53So they want your land?
40:54Mm-hmm.
40:57Oh boy.
41:13They made you an offer that I thought was a decent offer.
41:16And you guys said no.
41:18And so I was talking to Michelle.
41:20We're prepared to do the 1.5, 15%, which give you a $10 million valuation.
41:26We're giving you the money that you're looking for essentially.
41:28We're giving you the money.
41:29We're giving you the money too.
41:30We said 1.5 million.
41:32Hmm.
41:33Yeah.
41:34So, that's it.
41:35You got two offers that are very different.
41:36A rock and a very hard place.
41:38Uh.
41:39Are you though?
41:40Do you want CPG and beverage experience and, and, and alcohol experience?
41:44Or do you want, you know, people that want your land?
41:47I think that's like insulting.
41:48Want your land.
41:49Are you serious?
41:51Yeah.
41:51I don't, I don't think our goal is to take your land.
41:54I think our offer is to give you an alternative.
41:56Invest in your business.
41:58So, what will it be?
41:59Okay.
42:01We prefer the numbers and the equity position with Wes and Michelle.
42:12We seek the expertise from Arlene and Manjeet.
42:18For us, we came in here of highest importance.
42:21We wanted to retain that equity position.
42:24We wanted to be in that driver's seat.
42:27So, we want to accept the deal with Wes and Michelle.
42:30Well, thank you guys.
42:31Well done.
42:31Good luck.
42:34Nor did I.
42:35Congrats, you guys.
42:36I can't wait to come see your place.
42:39I can't wait to come see your place.
42:41Well done.
42:42There you go.
42:43Way overpaid for what it's worth.
42:45Well, Manjeet, we're in the same business.
42:47Good for you.
42:47We're in the same business.
42:49Aren't you going to welcome me to the business?
42:50Come on.
42:53We feel incredible.
42:54We stuck to our guns and I'm proud of you.
42:58Yeah, I'm proud of you too.
42:59I love you.
43:00I love you too.
43:03Next time on Dragon's Den.
43:05Oh, there you go.
43:07My brother's my brother.
43:09Who wins though?
43:10Do you win?
43:10My brother's not too close.
43:12He's like one years old.
43:13Oh, your brother's only one year old.
43:15Your margins are going to go.
43:17Don't tell him or me how to do private label.
43:19Your margins.
43:19We've won't make enough money.
43:21Are you done talking?
43:22Are you?
43:23No, I'm not.
43:23Because I'm actually making an offer.
43:26Two.
43:27One.
43:27Go.
43:28Come on, Drew.
43:29Go.
43:31Go.
43:32Go.
43:35Go.
43:36Get her pronounce.
43:37Hooray.
43:38Hooray.
43:38Hooray.
43:52Hooray!
43:53Ho-there!
44:05Hooray.
44:05Hooray.
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