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00:02Tonight on Dragon's Den.
00:04Three, two, one, go!
00:07Come on, Drew!
00:08Come on, Drew!
00:11Go, go!
00:12Oh my gosh, he's got my cash!
00:15Make it rain!
00:18Do you guys play a lot of mini sticks?
00:20I play with my brother.
00:22Who wins, though? Do you win?
00:23My brother's not too close.
00:25He's, like, one years old.
00:26Oh, your brother's only one year old.
00:28Don't tell him or me how to do private labor.
00:31Your Marge is fucked.
00:32We've won't make enough money with that.
00:33Manjit, stop talking.
00:35Why do you have to...
00:36Manjit, I'm not talking to you.
00:37I'm talking to him.
00:38Are you done talking?
00:39Are you?
00:53Big fans of the show.
00:54Big fans of the show.
00:56We've been watching since season one.
00:58I am all in.
01:00I quit my job as a teacher.
01:02To make a deal with the Dragons would just be so incredible for our business.
01:06First, two Ontario hockey dads are looking to stick-handle their way to a game-changing deal.
01:13Hello, Dragons.
01:14My name is Brad McGitchie, and I'm the proud founder of Small Hockey.
01:18We are the next generation of mini sticks.
01:20And I'm Chris Johnstone.
01:22I'm Brad's friend, and I help with all the marketing at Small Hockey.
01:26We are here today seeking $100,000 for 10% of our business.
01:31I am a proud hockey father of three, and I spend my evenings and weekends driving around from rink to
01:38rink.
01:38Keeping my kids active and off screens has always mattered to me.
01:42So much so, I built a mini stick arena in my basement.
01:46A good Canadian parent.
01:49So hockey as a sport has had millions of dollars invested in it, and yet the game, mini sticks, really
01:57hasn't evolved since the 80s.
01:58Kids are playing with tape balls and broken nets and makeshift setups.
02:02Two years ago, I decided I'm going to be the guy that changes that.
02:06Our purpose is simple.
02:07Bring premium mini hockey to every basement, living room, and hotel hallway across North America.
02:15I want to play in the hallways.
02:17So what do you say?
02:18I think you guys should give this a try.
02:19We brought two teammates for you guys to join us.
02:22Professionals?
02:23Professionals.
02:24Oh, got some breakfast.
02:25Yes.
02:25Oh, this is real mini hockey.
02:28Hi.
02:28Hey, guys.
02:29This is Connor and Connor, and this is our game.
02:32You guys are so cute.
02:34Manjit and Wes, would you like to be our teammates?
02:36Yes, absolutely.
02:38How can we say no?
02:39Love.
02:40Love.
02:41Hi, how are you?
02:43Good.
02:43Connor and Connor.
02:45You're on my team.
02:46Awesome.
02:46You're on my team, right?
02:48You guys are going down.
02:51Okay, so here's how it works.
02:53Okay.
02:53So we have the red team, and then we have the blue team.
02:57Woo!
02:57Woo!
02:58Yes.
02:58The red team, what they have to do is they hit the two targets, and if they hit the third
03:02one, they win.
03:03Okay.
03:03The blue team can counter that by turning their targets back on.
03:06Oh, nice.
03:07First team to hit the third color wins the game.
03:10Connor, you take the first shot.
03:11Okay.
03:12And then Manjit, get in there.
03:13All right.
03:14There we go.
03:15All right, here we go.
03:16Let's play.
03:17Do I shoot now?
03:18You can go.
03:18It's just, it's wide open.
03:20Okay, this is harder than it looks.
03:23Manjit, I don't think you're helping.
03:24No, I'm not.
03:25The small hockey system features a removable interactive electronic target board with five
03:31built-in games and training modes.
03:33Oh, nice one.
03:35He is good.
03:35He is good.
03:36It's currently available online and through 10 retailers across Canada.
03:41We won!
03:42Woo!
03:43Connor.
03:44Good game.
03:45Good game.
03:45Good game.
03:46Good game, buddy.
03:47Yeah, that actually looked pretty hard.
03:50Thank you so much.
03:52That's hard work.
03:52Wes has worn holes through his knees.
03:54Oh, that's right.
03:55Yes.
03:56Do you guys play a lot of mini sticks?
03:58Yes.
03:58Like, where do you play it?
04:00Uh, in my basement.
04:01And I play mini sticks with my brother.
04:04Nice.
04:04Who wins though?
04:05Do you, you win?
04:06Yeah, cause my brother's not too good.
04:09He's like one years old.
04:11Oh, your brother's only one year old.
04:13Bye, guys.
04:14Bye, Connor.
04:15Great job, guys.
04:17McGitchy and McDangles.
04:19Now that you buttered us up with cute kids, let's talk real business.
04:24Yeah, so there's no digital current mini stick game that exists.
04:27So the design is simple and it's easy enough for any kid to play with.
04:31Yeah.
04:31And then I thought, why not make it as easily transportable as possible?
04:36So it just folds up.
04:37The portability is actually a huge thing and none of the other nets can come with you.
04:44So how much money have you invested in this?
04:46I put about $300,000 in this.
04:48Oh, wow.
04:48That's quite a bit.
04:49My dream is to have kids say, we're gonna go play small hockey and that's the brand they look for.
04:54How much does the product cost?
04:56So the cost is $155 Canadian and it retails for $349.
05:01$349?
05:02Wow.
05:03Okay.
05:04Whoa.
05:05Now, have you had any pushback on that price?
05:07It does sound pricey.
05:08You know what?
05:09I haven't.
05:10I don't think it's too expensive.
05:12So right now we sold, so we sold 572 games in November, D to C only.
05:17Okay.
05:18You know, we've had a lot of interest from pro hockey life.
05:20And so we're in the process right now.
05:22We're being taken on as a vendor, Lord willing.
05:24You know, the PO actually be finalized, but they've done the background check on us.
05:27So what are your sales?
05:28Just break down your sales.
05:30207,000 last year, 60,000 sales to date this year.
05:35And in January, we didn't have inventory because we had sold out.
05:39I want to see if the proof is in the pudding.
05:41How fast did these 570 units sell?
05:4514 days.
05:45Wow.
05:46Before they even landed.
05:47Amazing.
05:49I actually love when investors are sometimes wrong.
05:51We're all like $349?
05:52Way too expensive.
05:53And if you sold out in 14 days, that's really impressive.
05:58The fact that you can actually gamify this whole thing,
06:02I think people will pay that $349 for it because you're actually teaching the kids skills
06:08that the normal hockey net wouldn't be able to teach them.
06:10Is it skills or is it just fun?
06:12Let's be serious.
06:13Are we really making it something that it's not?
06:15No, it's skills.
06:16I'm an owner in the WHL with the Giants.
06:19And, you know, our kids are 16 to, you know, 20-ish.
06:24But they'll come and they'll bring their little siblings with them who also play.
06:27And this is exactly what they would do.
06:29Awesome.
06:30So Brad, what do you need 100K for?
06:33So Pro Hockey Life is basically like we want all of your inventory.
06:36Right.
06:37Then we have 10 retailers that are going to be potentially reordering more volume.
06:42So this is going to cost a significant amount of money.
06:44And then also with the terms from Pro Hockey Life.
06:46So you don't have the money for that?
06:48No.
06:49So it's inventory.
06:49You have an inventory problem.
06:50Yes.
06:51Okay.
06:51You've done $260,000 year-to-date sales, right?
06:57Why is it worth a million dollars?
06:58So I think that we're going to do over a million dollars in sales this year.
07:02And I think that what we had for sure $120,000 is locked 100%.
07:06You think you're going to.
07:07You don't have the POs yet.
07:08You don't have the money in the bank.
07:09And the fact that we've sold out and we've had people as we go to the expos are like,
07:12Oh, Christmas present, Christmas present.
07:14But none of this is for sure.
07:16Oh, it's for sure.
07:17Wow.
07:18I know you believe that.
07:19Well, the PO is coming from PHL.
07:21Well, you don't have it.
07:22It's not written on paper.
07:23Listen.
07:23If I might.
07:2448 hours.
07:25Yes.
07:25We can immediately move those units.
07:28But until they give you $350, it's kinda useless.
07:32And especially to an investor.
07:34Like, if you don't have a PO and they haven't paid you, but you also haven't delivered more
07:39than 600 units.
07:40Right.
07:41Maybe you could be a little more dream killing than that.
07:44No, no.
07:44Like, what the?
07:45It's the truth.
07:46It just started in November.
07:49It's not reality.
07:50It's the reality of the situation where you are today.
07:54Okay.
07:54Like, at the end of the day, you are not worth a million dollars today.
07:57I'm out.
08:01So would the PO have changed that, you believe?
08:04Like, do you think the pro hockey life?
08:05Because that is the premium product.
08:06It doesn't really matter.
08:07She's out.
08:08I'm in.
08:10Here's my offer for you.
08:11I will give you $100,000 for 20% of the business.
08:16Plus, I want a 3% royalty until I get double my money back.
08:21Wow.
08:22I appreciate that.
08:23I think you have a great product.
08:25But I think Michelle has a great offer on the table for you.
08:29So I'm going to be out.
08:31I think we all see the idea.
08:33I just can't get there on the valuation.
08:36Okay.
08:37I'm out.
08:39I love the product.
08:40I love what you're doing.
08:40I have retail relationships everywhere from Walmart to mom and pa shops.
08:47So I would offer you $100,000 for 20%, but I don't need the royalty component.
08:54Okay.
08:54Thank you, Drew.
08:56I love the opportunity.
08:57I think you're going to sell a ton of them.
09:00That's a hard offer to beat.
09:02So I'm going to be out.
09:05So we have two offers on the table.
09:07When you think of a 3% royalty, it's $10 a unit.
09:10I can help you really build the digital part of this business.
09:14And I have lots of retailer relationships as well.
09:18Do you guys have any interest in working together on this deal?
09:23I mean, it's small.
09:24That's my only thing.
09:25It's small, right?
09:26Okay.
09:27Well, we'll stick with our separate deals.
09:32Is there any way anybody can come down to 15%?
09:35I think that just given where you are at revenue, given how early you are, and I want to be
09:41able to help you scale efficiently.
09:43And so I need the 20%.
09:47I've seen it so many times in the past before where there was so much confidence with an entrepreneur, and
09:52the next day it was all pulled out from underneath them.
09:53And so you don't have that until you have that.
09:56And I don't want to change my offer.
09:59Okay.
10:00Go with your gut, guys.
10:02Okay.
10:03Three, two, one.
10:11Drew, I'd love to accept your deal.
10:13All right.
10:14Great, actually.
10:14There we go.
10:15Congrats.
10:15Congrats.
10:16Oh, I appreciate it.
10:18You've got a great product.
10:18Thank you so much.
10:20Let's play some hockey.
10:21I love, by the way, Drew, that you now own small hockey and Giants hockey.
10:33My mom just had a mini stroke last year.
10:36And it's not, that's the, that's the, that's the, that's the warning to the big one.
10:48Yeah.
10:49Yeah.
11:01Next, an Edmonton couple on a mission to heal the world, one drop at a time.
11:08Hello, Dragons.
11:09My name is Faith Grant.
11:12And I'm Hercules Grant.
11:13And we're from Edmonton, Alberta.
11:15Our company is Full Circle Corporate Health Consulting.
11:18And we're here to ask for $250,000 for 12 and a half percent of our company.
11:24Dragons, there are 10 million Canadians trapped in a cycle of chronic pain and recurrent injuries,
11:34forced to rely on strong drugs or distracting creams that do nothing but fool the brain.
11:41The market is saturated, but it has not been disrupted until now.
11:47Introducing Palawa Targeted Relief Products, a line of non-drug topicals backed by 44 years of clinical experience.
11:59We have created a formulation that penetrates the skin and produces anti-inflammatory and immune boosting effects naturally.
12:09Who would like to join us in disrupting and dominating the topical pain relief market?
12:14Arlene has a sprained ankle, so we can see if it works.
12:16I was going to say, I've got a sprained ankle.
12:17Have you got anything that I can put on my ankle?
12:18Absolutely.
12:19Let's try it.
12:19Absolutely.
12:20Let's try it.
12:20Right next to you.
12:22There you go.
12:23Okay.
12:23Shake the bottle a little bit.
12:25Okay.
12:25Two drops on your hand.
12:27Two drops.
12:28And then just massage it gently into the area that hurts.
12:31So this is an anti-inflammatory?
12:33It is anti-inflammatory and immune boosting.
12:37I have no pain, so I'm not going to put it on anywhere.
12:41Not to you.
12:42Congratulations, Manjeet.
12:43Maybe she could put it on her heart and get a little bit of kindness coming in there.
12:47Oh, Arlene.
12:48She could rub some on her heart and get all that anger out of it.
12:51What do you think?
12:52I love it.
12:52I think it smells lovely.
12:54It smells like spa in a bottle.
12:55It takes about 20 seconds or so for the product to be fully absorbed.
12:59And it interacts right on the spot where the pain is.
13:03So I take it you're married?
13:06Yes.
13:06Yes.
13:0641 years next month.
13:08Well done.
13:10Can you tell us your story a little bit about kind of where you came from and how you got
13:15together?
13:16Well, Faith and I met in Jamaica.
13:19We started physiotherapy in Jamaica.
13:21We were at the University Hospital one day and a physician brought her out onto the balcony.
13:28So I asked this friend of mine, who is that girl?
13:31Oh my goodness.
13:33Love at Forsyth.
13:34Love at Forsyth.
13:34Love at Forsyth.
13:34So that's how I met her.
13:36I mean, I'm going to say something and I'm going to like, it's an honest assessment.
13:40My foot is not as sore.
13:42And I'm not kidding.
13:43Like I honestly, it does feel better, like quite a bit better.
13:46This product is tested and proven to have anti-inflammatory.
13:51So it works on what is causing the pain to settle that down.
13:55So it's more moving you towards healing of an injury or an inflammatory process.
14:01We have not done clinical studies.
14:03Preclinical studies have shown that.
14:05So how do you make those claims without clinical studies?
14:08Don't you need those studies to...
14:10Yeah.
14:10So the work that we have done meets Health Canada regulations.
14:16But that's the bare minimum Health Canada regulations, right?
14:19So...
14:19If I could jump in.
14:20Yeah, Hercules.
14:21Now the...
14:22I love your name, by the way.
14:24I had it tested at the National Research Council as well as the U of A Nanotechnology Institute.
14:31Now all background, we have built and developed two physiotherapy clinics and sold them in Edmonton.
14:39We've worked on another three more, five total.
14:42So we have a wealth of clinical experience when it comes to rehabilitation.
14:47So Faith, maybe you can tell us about the name.
14:50Okay.
14:50So Talawa is a Jamaican word that means strong, resilient and not to be underestimated.
14:56Very resourceful.
14:57The entrepreneurial.
14:58You guys are from the Caribbean.
15:00Mm-hmm.
15:01Came to this country, went to Edmonton, built a clinic, you sold it, built a product.
15:07Now.
15:07And I need to understand a little bit about that journey that you took to get you in front of
15:11us right now.
15:11I came here in 85 like you did.
15:14So when we first started bringing this product to market, that was in 2015.
15:20The same year I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
15:25Oh.
15:28Naturally.
15:29Yeah.
15:30Yeah.
15:30Life took a turn.
15:31Yeah.
15:37So, you know, the next six years or so, they gave you a six year survival rate.
15:43Oh, wow.
15:44And so, you know, I wasn't planning, making any big plans until I cleared that six year and I was
15:52still alive kind of thing.
15:54At that time, it was 2020.
15:58I had reconnected with the National Research Council at that time to go at it again.
16:04Oh, made it through six years.
16:05You know, so we talked about it and we're like, okay, let's go.
16:09And COVID came and in addition, I also got a brain tumor.
16:13Oh, my goodness.
16:14It was very sobering.
16:16You know, realize your mortality and all of that kind of stuff.
16:22Um, so this sounds like drama, but I was at work and I got a mini stroke.
16:29Whoa.
16:30Oh, my God.
16:31But my takeaway at that third time was, you know what, I'm still here.
16:36Yeah.
16:37Maybe it's time to do it.
16:38It's now or never.
16:41So, Faith, that's where Talawa comes from.
16:43That's Talawa.
16:44That's you.
16:45Oh, yeah.
16:46That's really, that's really it.
16:49I mean, I'll just say, my mom just had a mini stroke last year.
16:57And it's not, that's, that's the, that's the, that's the warning to the big one.
17:08Yeah.
17:09Yeah.
17:12But have you taken the time you need to make sure that you're going to be okay,
17:15not just gone full throttle into this, because if you have stress from the business,
17:18you might be setting yourself up for more concern.
17:23I can put effort into bringing this to market because I love this stuff.
17:29I know what it, how we can help people, not just for me using it in the clinic,
17:34but for people being able to take care of themselves at home.
17:39What, what does the product sell for?
17:41On average, it costs us about $3.05.
17:45Okay.
17:45For a 30 mil bottle and we sell it for $30 on average.
17:51Now, since January 1st, we have sold $15,000 worth of product.
17:57Okay.
17:58With repeat customers.
17:59We are confident in the product line.
18:03Why do you think you're worth $2 million today?
18:08I'm here to convince you.
18:10You're not risking your money in something that is.
18:13But you're asking us to pay for something in the future.
18:16But every single time we say to people that we want to pay for what's there now.
18:20And the better thing would be to be realistic with your valuation so that we can grow with you to
18:24help you.
18:25Because we can't pay for what could be.
18:27But when we look at our seven products, we look at the total available market.
18:33Okay.
18:33You look at more than a billion dollars within Canada itself.
18:36Okay.
18:37But you don't have any of that.
18:40Did you come up with a valuation yourself or did you go to a financial advisor or an accountant?
18:45One of the members of our team is an investment banker.
18:48I don't know if you should keep that business person on staff.
18:52Because the number just doesn't make any sense.
18:54I really like you and I wanted to find a reason to invest in you.
18:58But the numbers don't make sense.
19:01So I'm out.
19:07It makes me cry, Faith.
19:11I love your product.
19:13It's helped my foot.
19:15And I'm not saying that.
19:16It honestly has.
19:17It actually really does work.
19:19We all are touched by you as people.
19:26There's lots of reasons to think about some sort of a royalty deal here or something that actually could potentially
19:32make sense.
19:33Because it's not worth $2 million.
19:35And, you know, I'm still thinking.
19:38Faith and Hercules, I can't get behind the valuation.
19:42But what you bring in terms of your names, your smile, your love to want to help others is amazing.
19:49So I will wish you all the best.
19:51But I'm going to be out.
19:53I really do think you guys have the entrepreneurial spirit and you've created something that sounds like it works.
19:59And so I think you do have a bit of a journey to go still.
20:04I'm going to be out as an investment.
20:08There's no question in my mind that your resilience is going to get you to places to get this product
20:14seen and sold.
20:15But I can't pay a value for what that is going to be today.
20:21So I'm going to be out for that reason.
20:23I'm like really glad you guys chose Canada 40 years ago.
20:29This is like the generation of people that built the Canada we love.
20:33For me, I'm worried that you're going to build the market and then you're going to get a lot of
20:39people copying you.
20:41So for that reason, I'm going to be out.
20:46I think you're fantastic.
20:48I think you're both really wonderful humans.
20:51You have overvalued your company.
20:53It's a challenge because it's not worth $2 million.
20:57And, you know, I am going to be out.
21:01But I do wish you well and please stay in touch with me.
21:05I really appreciate that.
21:07And you fixed Arlene's ankle.
21:09Honestly, you did.
21:10For anyone watching, my ankle is not hurting like a tenth as much as it was.
21:15Thanks.
21:17Such nice people.
21:18I mean, I almost did it because it works.
21:24You could outsource 80% of what you do.
21:28Would you do that?
21:31It would be very difficult.
21:32Yes.
21:32Right.
21:33Because, you know, the people that we've hired are part of the team to help us get to this point.
21:38The problem here is if you're trying to hold on to people because you don't want to hurt their feelings,
21:42but you're hurting the bottom line, nobody wants to invest in that kind of business.
21:57Next up, a duo from British Columbia hope to turn a few heads with their take on an iconic Canadian
22:04invention.
22:05Nice tip.
22:06Nice tip.
22:09Hi, Dragons.
22:10My name's Adam.
22:11This is Rolf.
22:12We're the dynamic father-son team from TurnX Tools based out of Delta BC.
22:17We're here today asking for $400,000 for 20% of our company.
22:21Whether you're a pro or a DIYer, when it comes to driving screws, there's a bit of a problem.
22:27One minute you're dealing with the square drive screw, and the next it might be like a Phillips.
22:33Now you have to rummage through your kit.
22:37You gotta try and find the right bit.
22:40Well, we fixed that problem by having the largest selection of these double ended screw driving impact bits called flip
22:51bits, where you can flip the bit and you can just keep driving.
22:55Now imagine I'm working on a project and I needed a screwdriver.
22:58Rolf, could you pass me one?
23:00I love that you guys are flipping the bit.
23:02There you go.
23:04A multi-bit screwdriver.
23:05I got a bunch.
23:06Man, can these things be frustrating to use.
23:09Yes.
23:09Bits that don't stay locked in the collar, tips that can be tough to identify, and the bits themselves can
23:15be pretty hard to get in and out.
23:16Story of my life.
23:17Meet the ultimate multi, which solves all those problems.
23:21Okay.
23:21It has a unique open faced access design that's easy to use and it's patented.
23:27Our screwdriver holds our four inch flip bits, which allows you to go from screwdriver to impact driver and back
23:36again in seconds.
23:37Dragons, we're here today looking for an investment from you into Trinex tools so together we can make the ultimate
23:45impact.
23:46I love Canadian innovation.
23:48I honestly love it.
23:50I don't know what you have in your hand or what that gray thing is.
23:54I have no idea, but I love the innovation.
23:58Now we have come with a challenge in mind in our industry, as you know.
24:03Time is money.
24:04Time is money.
24:06Drew, we'd love to invite you up here to participate.
24:08I have a feeling you're going to set me up for failure.
24:10You're going to do the good one and I have to do the bad one.
24:12So, you're going to use this screwdriver.
24:14Okay.
24:15We've got three screws holding it in.
24:17Inside your box is $500 cash.
24:19You and I are going to have a little bit of a race.
24:21First, I'm going to remove all three of the screws from the box.
24:24Okay.
24:24And get inside of the box, win.
24:25Okay, so, I have a box with a whole lot of moolah.
24:29Yeah, exactly.
24:29Show me the money.
24:30Real moolah.
24:31You know I'm competitive, right?
24:33Three, two, one.
24:35Go.
24:35Come on, Drew.
24:36You got this.
24:37You can do it, Drew.
24:38Come on.
24:39Get the cash, get the cash, get the cash, get the cash.
24:41Come on.
24:41Drew, Drew, Drew.
24:42Drew, Drew, Drew.
24:44Okay.
24:44The Turnex Tool screwdriver system comes with the four most commonly used bits and space for
24:50two more.
24:51This way users can customize their tool to their liking.
24:54Go, Drew.
24:55Oh, wow.
24:55Oh, Drew, come on, man.
24:57The screwdriver sells for $50 and dual end bits are $8 each.
25:01Are you going to beat me?
25:02No, no.
25:03I think I'm going to win with them.
25:04Go, go, go.
25:05I think so.
25:06Drew, you're going to do it.
25:07Oh, my gosh.
25:08He's got the cash.
25:11Here, let me help you.
25:14Hey, congrats.
25:14That was a good run.
25:15You were way fast.
25:16I mean, I got a little experience here, guys.
25:18It's all right.
25:19I got it.
25:20Good job.
25:22I guess we got screwed.
25:24I guess we got screwed.
25:26Even though I beat you in the contest, you saw my struggle trying to get...
25:29I hate that design for a screwdriver because you almost cut your finger trying to push
25:35the bit from one end.
25:36You can't get the other tips.
25:37So, imagine how fast I would have been with your design, right?
25:41This is nice.
25:41I like it.
25:42That's pretty good.
25:42That's smart.
25:43Even I can figure it out.
25:44What really makes Turnex Tools different is we have what is a complete system where,
25:49on the market, most companies produce screwdrivers, and then they also probably have impact bits,
25:54but they're treated as two completely separate entities.
25:57Oh, so you have to buy both.
25:58Who made this?
25:59Who invented this?
26:00You, Rolf?
26:01Yes.
26:02Arlene, a great question, but I had a great design team that helped me with my vision.
26:07How much of your money did you put into it?
26:09So, my total investment so far in just under four years is about $400,000.
26:13Wow.
26:14That's a lot of money, Rolf.
26:16That's a lot of money, Rolf.
26:16When did you start this product?
26:17When did it hit market?
26:19Q2 2024.
26:20Yeah.
26:21How are you selling right now?
26:22$615,000 with the sales.
26:24About $120,000 of that was through e-commerce.
26:27You sold $615,000 in less than a year, it seems, right?
26:32Like, that's very good.
26:34I just love that you had this invention, you've gone out there, you've gotten real
26:39sales.
26:39Most of the companies we see that are inventions like this, people haven't actually gone to
26:44the retailers.
26:45But you're really, your market is this, right?
26:48Well, it's both.
26:49I know you're selling both of them.
26:50Yeah.
26:51But you buy one of this.
26:52Yeah.
26:52But then you can keep on just buying these guys.
26:54Correct.
26:55Do you have a lot of inventory?
26:58We have sufficient inventory.
27:01We like numbers in the den.
27:04Well, so what is the exact question?
27:07How much inventory do you have?
27:08We have about $100,000 worth of inventory sitting in our warehouse.
27:12And how much of that is this, and how much are the bits?
27:19The screwdrivers were actually almost sold out.
27:21I've got another order coming in.
27:22So you have about $100,000 worth of bits, and then you need our money to get some more
27:27of these.
27:29Guys, are you making any money?
27:31100%.
27:32Absolutely.
27:33About $90,000.
27:34And do you have any debt?
27:36What's my investment?
27:37And what do you think you're going to do this year in 26?
27:39$700,000.
27:41Why not more?
27:42That doesn't sound like a lot of growth.
27:44We just can't be everywhere at once.
27:47There's the two of us and the team.
27:50What else do you have on your team?
27:51Like how many people?
27:52Team's 10 people.
27:53Wow.
27:53That's a lot of people for a $600,000 business.
27:56How did you make $90,000 last year?
27:59Did you have to put any money in the business last year?
28:02Yes.
28:03How much did you have to put in?
28:05About $80,000.
28:06And that was just a break even?
28:08Well, that's to make sure that we kept inventory coming in.
28:11But you understand how that sounds like you're misleading us.
28:15You said free and clear at the end of the day you were $90,000 in the pocket profit.
28:19But you've over-engineered in your business structure.
28:22Over-built a lot of things.
28:23You could outsource 80% of what you do.
28:26Would you do that?
28:29Would be very difficult.
28:31Yes.
28:31Right.
28:32Because the people that we've hired are part of the team to help us get to this point.
28:37The problem here is if you're trying to hold on to people because you don't want to hurt their feelings,
28:41but you're hurting the bottom line, nobody wants to invest in that kind of business.
28:44Right?
28:45Like what we're saying is to go back and kind of think to see if your cost structure is right.
28:48Unless you're five times your revenue, then hey, okay, keep them all.
28:52And we're trying to work towards that.
28:53I couldn't agree more with Arlene.
28:55I think your cost structure and valuation are over-inflated, so I'm going to be out.
29:01Yeah.
29:01It's too expensive at $2 million, so I'm going to be out.
29:06I honestly, I like your product.
29:08There's a lot of competition, but I think you could make a mark and I think I could plug in
29:12easily.
29:13I just don't see how I can make the numbers work, so I'm out.
29:19I too, like my fellow dragons, struggling with the same thing.
29:24I think there's an opportunity to potentially shift your structure a little bit, but I'm going to be out.
29:30I love the Canadian innovation, but I think this is a small family business.
29:35I'm out.
29:37Okay.
29:38I was thinking about a deal until you mentioned that you had to put $90,000 into the business.
29:44Changed things.
29:45And that kind of changed things for me, because that means that you're short on cash.
29:51So I'm going to be out.
29:53Okay.
29:54Thank you, Wes.
29:58No problem.
30:00Hold on one second.
30:01Sure.
30:02Would you just sell it?
30:03Would you just sell me the company?
30:04Would you just sell the patents?
30:05If I gave you a royalty, if I bought this for $400,000 and I just gave you a royalty
30:09so you can continue to earn for the rest of time, is that of interest to you?
30:37I think what I could offer is $400,000 with an 8% royalty.
30:47What do you think?
30:49Yeah, Adam looks kind of interested in this, I would say.
30:52I don't know.
30:53Adam, do you want to take a step back and talk?
30:55Yeah, I think we'd like to just take a moment to think about that, right?
30:59Okay, thank you.
31:02It is your call.
31:04Yeah.
31:04It's an 8% royalty on a lifetime of, if he does get it into Depot, you don't have to
31:12work again.
31:14But it's tough for them to say yes because it's...
31:16They still want to be involved.
31:17They want to build it more and they want to be a part of it.
31:19Of course, my bias is not too many people.
31:22There's too many people that are involved here, right?
31:25It's a tough one, right?
31:26What are you thinking, Rolf?
31:28Yeah, it's a tough decision.
31:29I see it both ways.
31:31You know, we believe in what we have.
31:33We've grown the business organically and we're at an inflection point and we need to get to that next level.
31:38And that's the reason we came here today.
31:39I think the only thing that you're maybe not considering is your numbers are completely out of whack, right?
31:45You're so top heavy with all of your team and your costs.
31:49So I think that inflection point is maybe a little tougher position than what you think it is.
31:54Right.
31:55So, Drew, your offer was $400,000 for an 8% royalty on any of the product that we sell.
32:00$400,000 and I buy your company and I'll give you an 8% royalty for the rest of the
32:04time.
32:05Right.
32:06Okay.
32:08Right.
32:09Okay.
32:10I think we'll do that deal.
32:12All right.
32:13Okay.
32:13Okay.
32:14Oh, man.
32:15We are going to make some money.
32:17Good decision, Rolf.
32:18Yeah.
32:18Thanks, Drew.
32:19Okay, great.
32:20I thought for sure he was going to say no.
32:22I didn't think I was going to be buying a multi-tool today.
32:25Not just the tool of the company, so.
32:28We thought it was over, and then there was hope.
32:31And we look forward to Drew taking our product and being very successful with it.
32:35He understood the vision right off the bat.
32:37He saw the value of it, and yeah, that brought a smile to us.
32:43I am excited.
32:45I'm going to fetch the dragons to finally tell my story.
32:49I am a devoted viewer.
32:52I watch every single episode.
32:54I am most excited to see Manjit.
32:58And finally, an entrepreneur who built a business from a handful of seeds.
33:03And now he wants a dragon in the mix.
33:06Hello, dragons.
33:07My name is Joseph Chen.
33:08I am from Prince Edward County, Ontario.
33:10And I'm the founder of Joey Notice Secrets.
33:13I am here today asking for $200,000 for 10% of my business.
33:18So, dragons, when you think about gluten-free crackers, what comes to mind?
33:22Ugh.
33:24Tasteless, cardboardy.
33:26The rice crackers.
33:27Yeah, no thanks.
33:28The same old flavors.
33:29In 2018, I went to Sweden, and I discovered this delicious crisp bread.
33:34They are a seed-based cracker made with a ripe flour.
33:37When I came back to Canada, I started making the gluten-free version
33:41from my partner who has gluten sensitivities.
33:44And that's how Joey Notice Secrets was born.
33:47Joey Notice Secrets is certified organic, certified gluten-free, and made with seven super seeds.
33:52They feature chef-inspired seasonings.
33:55So, dragons, sitting in front of you are six of our delicious flavors for you to try.
34:03That's surprisingly amazing.
34:07Tastes like seven seeds put together.
34:10Is that a bad thing?
34:12If that's what you're looking for.
34:15They're really good.
34:17I think your seasoning is great.
34:18So, Joseph, were you a chef before?
34:21Oh, no.
34:22I've always been, like, a gluten-free baker.
34:25I love baking.
34:26But what did you do as a career before that?
34:29Yeah.
34:29So, I grew up in Consumer Insights.
34:32So, I started working at Kraft in market research, like in-house.
34:38And then I was at Unilever.
34:40Okay.
34:41So, you come from the industry?
34:42Yes.
34:43So, we started in 2023 with about $100,000 in revenue.
34:49And then 2024, we did $250,000.
34:54And then last year, we did $500,000.
34:57This year, we're looking to do a million dollars.
35:00Wow.
35:02And where's your distribution currently?
35:04Yes.
35:04So, in Canada, we are currently in 700 stores.
35:08So, we're at Whole Foods, National, Loblaws, Fun Boy, Healthy Planet.
35:13And in the U.S., we're about in 100 stores.
35:17We started doing co-packing for a high-end grocery chain in California.
35:23So, when you say co-packing, are you white-labeling?
35:25White-labeling, yes.
35:27Are you aiming to be an acquirer or a builder of white-label products?
35:32Or are you aiming to be your own brand?
35:34Or both.
35:35We do want to build all brands.
35:37So, yeah.
35:39So, we've been doing, like, co-packing.
35:40That's how we learn about, like, exporting into the U.S.
35:44Right now, we retail for, on average, between U.S. and Canada, it's about $9.99.
35:49That's pretty good.
35:50It costs us $3.15 to make per bag.
35:54And we sell it to our distributor for $5.81.
35:57So, we make about 46% margin.
36:00Joseph, are you doing this full-time?
36:04Yeah, I also, I have a consulting business on the side.
36:08We work with, like, T.M. Horton's, McDonald's.
36:11We work with all CPG and food service clients on the consulting side business.
36:15How well are you doing in your day job?
36:17For you to be giving up a business that's going to do a million dollars this year.
36:20It depends what your definition of day job is.
36:22I get it.
36:23Like, you can ask the question when you want to.
36:25Why?
36:26Um, I'm always a bit more cautious person.
36:31So, like, I know also I have a team, an amazing team on the consulting business.
36:36And are you going to go full-time and quit your job?
36:41I feel like the business, they work, there's, like, nice synergy between the two.
36:48And how big is the consulting business?
36:49So, we did about $1.5 million last year.
36:52Yes.
36:52And then this is the side hustle.
36:54Yes.
36:54Let's say you get a phone call one day and there's a big issue with what's going on in your
36:59consulting business.
37:00And at the very same time, you get a phone call on your food business that says,
37:04the line's gone down, we can't produce.
37:07Where do you put your attention?
37:09Well, I have a great team.
37:10So, I find, like, right now I'm able to juggle both.
37:14Every time we ask you that question, you hesitate before you respond.
37:18My consulting business clients, like, they're sort of the bread and butter.
37:23So, like, right now they are.
37:24Yes, they are.
37:25Right now they are.
37:26Like, next year, like, I think, when we're able to secure, like, Sprouts Whole Foods in the U.S.,
37:31I do think that the priority might shift a little bit.
37:35Might.
37:37You have to be definitive.
37:38Yes, yeah, bullshit.
37:40He's being honest.
37:41I think I'd rather go with the honesty than the fluff that is just telling you what you want to
37:45hear.
37:45I appreciate the honesty.
37:46He's going to tell me what I want to hear when he's asking me for my money.
37:50The problem is, is you're asking for external investment.
37:54And so, we have to know that you are all in on doing this.
37:59Joseph, you have your cake and you want to eat it too and some crisp in the side.
38:03You can't do that.
38:17You can't do that.
38:20The problem is, is you're asking for external investment.
38:24Mm-hm.
38:24And so we have to know that you are all in.
38:27Yeah.
38:28On doing this.
38:30it's one thing what you want to be cautious it's another thing what investors want it does give me
38:35hesitation when I see your hesitation when we say are you going to focus on this business we're
38:39investing in and you're like yeah I think I might so I'm out so um I love the crisp I
38:49hate the fact
38:49that it's a part-time gig for you this has to be your bread and butter for me to invest
38:53I'm gonna
38:54be out you know what you've got two great businesses one the consulting is bigger than
39:03the other but it seems to have a team in place that might serve this space would you consider
39:09bringing in an investor a dragon into the merged two companies oh merge two company into merge the
39:20two companies because they work together bring in a dragon or two to really scale what you're
39:27creating I haven't like thought about that um but that's really interesting you might want to take
39:34a minute to think about it because if you would combine the companies Arlene and I would go in
39:40and make you an offer and it's no longer a side hustle that's a different story it's a full-time
39:44hustle and we are betting on Joey to blow this thing up in a good way so we would offer
39:51you
39:51two hundred thousand dollars for ten percent of the combined businesses because the offer on the
39:56other on just the crisp business would have been significantly more aggressive right Joseph I like that
40:06you're cautious and conservative I think that given your background you're very credible and he came up
40:12with a product that doesn't exist uh in the marketplace I would like to help you build a
40:20white label business white label is a huge part of my business in the United States but I only want
40:25this company I don't want the consulting company just Joey crisps two hundred thousand dollars for
40:31fifteen percent of this company so we want to help you build a brand the challenge on just doing
40:38private label is that you actually have to do more than your product like it's very difficult
40:43for you to scale just this product in private label very difficult your margins are going to
40:47tell him or me how to do private label your margins we've both made enough money with that
40:52stop talking why why do you imagine I'm not talking to you I'm talking to him why do you have
40:57to
40:57diss everybody else's businesses sorry do you have one he he's already done white label he already
41:02says I do white labeling I'm sorry I have lots of my investment so the the private label the challenge
41:09which is different than white label
41:16are you done talking are you no I'm not because I'm actually making an offer um at the end of
41:22the
41:22day when you do something that you're actually putting somebody else's brand on your margins get
41:26smaller and smaller and smaller that is a fact and eventually the people you're doing those white label
41:32for that private label for end up doing it themselves we want to build your brand you need
41:37to do both oh so suddenly you agree with me who feels like a little meditation are there any other
41:49you know I was gonna make you an offer but it's and I and I like that you're an expert
41:55but my offer is
41:58less competitive with more conditions so I'm gonna bow out so 200,000 for 10% of the two combined
42:07companies 200,000 for 15% of just the snacking company no more brand yeah
42:20so Minji would you do 200,000 for 12% why um next year we will do like two million
42:31dollars it's just like this point like I'm not sure if I want to give up like that much equity
42:37cautious and conservative yes yes
42:41fair enough sure okay so Minji you have a deal
42:47thank you so much thank you thank you so much oh my gosh all the best Joseph I've been a
42:56bit overwhelmed
42:56I came here for Minji and it's exactly what I wanted yes
43:04next time on Dragon's Den
43:06hello welcome to the den
43:10how come mine is bald
43:13beer for dogs
43:14dog beer
43:14come on
43:15dogs gotta be like curled over before the pitch is over
43:19I would have a lot of fear that you would not know how to spend this
43:25we became the first company in Canada in over 80 years to successfully receive a motorcycle manufacturing license
43:32but does that mean it's a dying industry that nobody's gotten one in 80 years like just two ways to
43:37look at that fact right
43:53so
43:56you
43:57you
43:58you
43:59you