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During the time of apartheid Nelson Mandela drove around South Africa in a limousine disguised as a chauffeur while organizing the armed struggle against the apartheid regime. But who was the distinguished looking white man sitting in the back seat? Meet Cecil Williams, an acclaimed gay white theatre director and communist.
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00:00:40Almost.
00:00:59We saw a car flash past and it then asked, who are these?
00:01:05And I said, well, it's the only use of asking to know who they are.
00:01:12And I was, I just returned from military training and I was very fit and young and I thought I
00:01:20could dash away.
00:01:21But when I looked at the rear view mirror, I noticed that there were two police cars behind me.
00:01:28They signaled to us to stop and then this man came out.
00:01:31He then took out his warrant of authority and he said, I am Sergeant First from the Peter Marisbach branch
00:01:43of the police.
00:01:45He said, can I have your name?
00:01:48And I said to him, I'm David Matsumai.
00:01:52And he says, no, but Hunter Nelson Mandela.
00:01:55I said, well, I've given you a name.
00:01:58And he then said, oh, we know you are, you're Nelson Mandela and this is Cecil Williams.
00:02:06You are under arrest.
00:02:07He was arrested somewhere just beyond Peter Marisbach and he was wearing a white dust coat and driving the bus
00:02:18and the bus was Cecil Williams.
00:02:23You know, it's then we realize this guy has been fooling us all the time.
00:02:29I contemplate death with complete equanimity.
00:02:34The only thing I would like is to make a speech at my own cremation.
00:02:38I would say I've had a wonderful life.
00:02:42I'm glad that I had the good sense to join the Communist Party of South Africa.
00:02:48Firstly, because it gave me a sense of the real purpose of life.
00:02:52Secondly, because it gave me an understanding of the motive forces in the history of mankind.
00:02:57And thirdly, because it brought me amongst the most wonderful people.
00:03:02I'd finish up by saying, thank you all.
00:03:06You've been absolutely marvelous.
00:03:09That's what I told my brother Bill a few days before I died.
00:03:14How extraordinary.
00:03:15Do you think that South Africa is now a democracy ruled by the African National Congress and Nelson's now President
00:03:21Mandela?
00:03:23Lord, we've become the very first country in the world to give constitutional equality to homosexuals.
00:03:28It's marvelous.
00:03:56It's marvelous.
00:04:01Bill's family originates from Cornwall.
00:04:05Her mother's Thelma and her brothers Bill and Cecil were born in Bodmin, grew up there.
00:04:11My grandfather was a blacksmith and my grandmother was a butcher's assistant.
00:04:17So it's a typical working class family from that time.
00:04:22Fairly uneducated.
00:04:24But they always saw the need for their children to better themselves.
00:04:31My mother was a wonderful woman.
00:04:34And her whole idea was that we boys should grow up as gentlemen.
00:04:41But she was very strict.
00:04:44And at times, I think she made one big mistake.
00:04:48And that was during the summer, we were always sent to bed too early.
00:04:54The sun's still shining.
00:04:56And when we got to bed, we used to start gymnastics.
00:05:00Bump!
00:05:01And laughter.
00:05:04But we always knew when she was really coming.
00:05:08Because she used to go, one, two, three, stop, take her shoe off, and come up with the rest of
00:05:13the stairs.
00:05:15But if we could make mother laugh, you got away with murder.
00:05:21I can always remember my mother warning us of the terrible disasters that were before us if we touched ourselves.
00:05:27Really.
00:05:28I smile when I think of my mother.
00:05:31It must have cost her a tremendous effort even to approach such a subject herself.
00:05:36I was a wolf cub, and of course I knew by heart the terrible tenth law which says that a
00:05:39scourge is clean in thought and word and deed.
00:05:44There was really only one deed in which I could think of myself as being dirty, and that was...
00:05:49Well, I understand that even the scourge laws have changed now, but for years I did it, tried not to,
00:05:59and there was this feeling of guilt and fear of the consequences.
00:06:06Of course, all this pubescent confusion was not made any easier by the fact that I was having sexual relations
00:06:11with our scoutmaster.
00:06:14He was the one that introduced us all to Kipling, which inspired us to form a Bodmin branch, which you
00:06:21have to the young imperialists.
00:06:23Go out into the world. Do good.
00:06:27It lasted quite a while, a sexual affair, that was.
00:06:32Of course, imperialism lasted quite a while, too, but after a bit I realised that imperialism needed to go and
00:06:40sex could stay.
00:06:41Mother was very concerned that we shouldn't become drunkards or get into sex trouble.
00:06:52Those are the two main items in her curriculum, but on top of that, her aim was that we should
00:07:02be gentlemen.
00:07:03My grandfather left Cornwall sometime towards the end of the last century to come and work in South Africa.
00:07:10The Cape was first occupied by the Dutch, who in turn lost it to the British.
00:07:16The British stayed in partnership with the Dutch to build the Union of South Africa as an independent member of
00:07:22the British Commonwealth.
00:07:25Johannesburg, the largest city of South Africa, is the great gold mining centre.
00:07:30The mining of gold, diamonds and other minerals is the basis for prosperity in South Africa.
00:07:35The Johannesburg I found when I arrived from Cornwall in 1928 was a gangster's mall of a mining town.
00:07:48On my way from the university, I used to linger in Jubeir Park.
00:07:52I was quite taken aback when an older man struck up a conversation with me and invited me to his
00:07:57flat.
00:07:59Really.
00:08:01I'm amused when I think about it now that the mere mention of the word flat, a flat, oh!
00:08:06The connotations were fabulous.
00:08:08One knew that all sorts of abominable things went on there.
00:08:16My seducer offered me a drink.
00:08:18A gin and lime.
00:08:20For years afterwards, the smell of gin and lime signaled a sexual experience.
00:08:26I don't think we undressed.
00:08:30But lying there, I lost control of it, my intense embarrassment.
00:08:41When I came back from the war, many years after, I moved into just such a den of iniquity myself.
00:08:48Into my beloved 163 Ansties.
00:08:51Way up on the 16th floor, overlooking Johannesburg.
00:08:54I'd stroll over to Jubeir Park myself.
00:08:57And there, on a bench, some younger man would hear me say,
00:09:02flat, flat, flat, flat.
00:09:04I met Cecil at King Edward's.
00:09:06He was my English teacher.
00:09:08So it had been 39, 40, thereabouts.
00:09:11Cecil was a special kind of teacher.
00:09:13He wasn't just an academic.
00:09:16He didn't just know his English.
00:09:17He was very good at English.
00:09:19But he was also a very human being, a very civilised man.
00:09:23He discoursed on all sorts of subjects in our classes.
00:09:26He made English very interesting.
00:09:28He was tremendously popular because he came like a breath of fresh airy to a rather stuffy establishment.
00:09:34King Edward's was an institution.
00:09:35It was an establishment that produced the upper classes that ran South Africa in those days.
00:09:43The prefects were all very important and very pompous and arrogant, and you sort of worshipped them.
00:09:49The head boy was beyond reproach.
00:09:51It was a very, very traditional public school, English public school type of establishment,
00:09:58even though it was a government school.
00:09:59He'd come in in the morning, and as he entered the classroom, all the kids would jump up, stand to
00:10:06attention,
00:10:07and all shout in unison,
00:10:09Good morning, sir!
00:10:10And on this particular morning, when he decided that he was going to leave,
00:10:15he said,
00:10:17Sit down, you fucking little fascists!
00:10:19Why are you standing to attention like a lot of Nazis?
00:10:23I was working for the Communist Party.
00:10:25I was the district secretary in Johannesburg.
00:10:28This must have been in the early years of the war, 1941, possibly.
00:10:33And he was an applicant for party membership,
00:10:36and the procedure was that the district committee had to pass the applications,
00:10:41and he came up to see me to apply for membership.
00:10:45So we had a sort of reversal of roles.
00:10:48I joined the Communist Party for different reasons from Rusty.
00:10:52I just saw the world was in a mess, and I wanted to change it, the whole world.
00:10:56While I was at school, the war was on, as you'll realise.
00:10:59And not just Cecil, but a number of other masters left the school and went to the forces.
00:11:05When those men went off to war, went to fight for the colours,
00:11:09that meant that they went up very much, in my estimation, they were doing the right thing.
00:11:15To World War II, which had entered only by a narrow majority of boats,
00:11:20the government of South Africa made outstanding contributions.
00:11:26Prime Minister Jan Smuts had behind him a nation rich in food resources and strategic minerals,
00:11:31and the financial position of the union was excellent.
00:11:34Railroad and mine workshops were converted into mass production units.
00:11:37And in the process, South Africa achieved an industrial establishment which will play an important part in her future.
00:11:45I joined up round about 1942, I can't tell you exactly when.
00:11:50I began, first of all, to see the war changing with resistance movements developing in Europe,
00:11:57and also because I began to feel that I was losing my roots.
00:12:00The white middle class is becoming more and more involved in the war,
00:12:05and I was becoming more and more alienated from my natural environment,
00:12:09and I disliked that, and I wanted to get back amongst the people where I felt I belonged.
00:12:16First of all, I'm Jewish, and I'd read Hitler's Mein Kampf,
00:12:22in which he says that when he gets hold of all the Jews,
00:12:25he's going to eliminate them from the face of the earth.
00:12:28That's one thing.
00:12:29Second thing is that I had seen and lived amongst the colored people in Woodstock,
00:12:37and I knew how they suffered.
00:12:39So that's two of the reasons why I joined up.
00:12:42I'd become passionate about acting.
00:12:45I loved the theater, saw myself in a new career.
00:12:48But when Hitler invaded Russia,
00:12:52there was really no choice.
00:12:55It became obvious what one had to do.
00:12:58The war was the time of my life.
00:13:02Everything came together.
00:13:04I was reporting for the South African Broadcasting Corporation,
00:13:07all across the Mediterranean.
00:13:09Amen to you, the Pope.
00:13:11I loved that photo.
00:13:13And not just because I looked so spruce in my naval whites.
00:13:17Actually, truth be told,
00:13:19my hope was that I could persuade him to make a public stand against fascism.
00:13:23Of course, he wouldn't have any of it.
00:13:28That was in September 1944.
00:13:30And I was stationed in Rome for a couple of months.
00:13:34I'd befriended a group of men,
00:13:36mixed bunch from all over the world.
00:13:39All kindred spirits.
00:13:42And I realised that sexual relationships didn't have to be furtive,
00:13:48didn't have to be transient.
00:13:51The war had changed everything.
00:13:53Life couldn't possibly
00:13:56Life couldn't better be
00:13:59Life could not better be
00:14:02Better be
00:14:04Better be
00:14:05It could not possibly
00:14:08No, no, no, no, no, sirree
00:14:11Days could not sweeter be
00:14:14Could not come clear to be
00:14:17Is she in love with me?
00:14:20Yes, oh, yes, oh, yes, sirree
00:14:23You're a glum one
00:14:26The world is gloomy
00:14:28And nothing's right
00:14:29Then you meet
00:14:31Someone
00:14:32And what a change
00:14:34Overnight skies
00:14:36Could not bluer be
00:14:38Hearts in love
00:14:40True or be
00:14:41I'd say for you or me
00:14:44Life couldn't possibly
00:14:46Not even probably
00:14:48Life couldn't possibly
00:14:49Better be
00:14:59And still the springboks come
00:15:01Another troop ship steams in
00:15:03With its cargo of happy warriors
00:15:04And it's evident that the boys think
00:15:06The army are pretty good life
00:15:08They only hope there'll be
00:15:09Some Italians left
00:15:10When they get there
00:15:12And here's the smiling face
00:15:38Of democracy
00:15:39The black soldiers
00:15:41Weren't given guns
00:15:42And they were in the same danger area
00:15:45As we were
00:15:46They were given spears
00:15:48To carry around
00:15:49Do you know this type of spear
00:15:50That they use for Zulu war dances
00:15:52Normally
00:15:53That's what they were giving
00:15:55That's what they were giving
00:15:55It's unbelievable
00:15:56But it's true
00:15:58One of the ways in which
00:15:59They were discriminated against
00:16:00Was that they were getting
00:16:01Half the pay that
00:16:02The whites were getting
00:16:04They had to do all the dirty work
00:16:07Which the society in South Africa
00:16:09Had already given to them
00:16:12And it was taken into the army
00:16:17I was in the air force at the time
00:16:19And I had already been recruited
00:16:22Into the springback legion
00:16:24The legion as it was commonly known then
00:16:27Was the first anti-fascist organisation
00:16:30In this country
00:16:32And it had no colour bar
00:16:34Which was quite unique in those days
00:16:36It was concerned with questions
00:16:38Of soldiers' conditions
00:16:40And pay and their families
00:16:41And their maintenance
00:16:42And so on
00:16:43So it was in a way
00:16:44A nature of a trade union
00:16:45Black servicemen weren't allowed
00:16:47To carry arms
00:16:48Well you couldn't be a trade union
00:16:50Of servicemen
00:16:51And not take up
00:16:52That sort of inequality
00:16:54So gradually
00:16:55It developed a political motivation
00:16:59Cecil was very interested in politics
00:17:02I mean he came into
00:17:04The springback legion
00:17:05Primarily because he was
00:17:07An anti-fascist
00:17:08In those days
00:17:09There were very few organisations
00:17:12That accepted blacks as people
00:17:15As equals
00:17:31What is the sort of world
00:17:34Which we envisage
00:17:36As our objective
00:17:38After this war
00:17:39What sort of social and international order
00:17:42Are we aiming at
00:17:45We have agreed on certain large principles
00:17:48Of social policy
00:17:50Involving social security for the citizen
00:17:53In matters which have lain at the roots
00:17:56Of much social unrest
00:17:58And suffering in the past
00:18:11Johannesburg
00:18:12Which is an ultra-modern city
00:18:14And quite the most cosmopolitan centre
00:18:16South of the equator
00:18:28Everyone was in the streets
00:18:30To offer this most sincere
00:18:31And loyal greeting
00:18:43The king and the queen
00:18:44And the two princesses
00:18:45Came out here
00:18:46And Yoni Smuts met them
00:18:48On the vanguard
00:18:49In Cape Town harbour
00:18:50There was all sorts of pomp and ceremony
00:18:53It was delightful actually
00:18:56And they travel around the country
00:18:58And everybody loved them
00:19:00Including the other side
00:19:02My first encounter with them
00:19:04Was at Roberts Heights
00:19:05There was a parade
00:19:06At the military college
00:19:08I was in uniform
00:19:09And there these people were
00:19:12These people that
00:19:13So many men had given their lives for
00:19:15And they epitomised everything
00:19:16That the empire stood for
00:19:18In those days
00:19:19It was all very romantic
00:19:21And very nice
00:19:22And very wonderful
00:19:24Of course
00:19:24In retrospect
00:19:25One realises
00:19:26That they'd come out here
00:19:27To help Yoni win the next election
00:19:29Which he didn't do
00:19:43The reason we were having these meetings
00:19:46At the City of All Steps
00:19:47In Johannesburg
00:19:48Was that the Nats
00:19:49Were striving to come into power
00:19:52And we in the Springbok Legion
00:19:55Were about the only organisation
00:19:57Who thought that that was possible
00:19:59Like the English never thought
00:20:01That Churchill could be beaten
00:20:03So here they never thought
00:20:05That Smuts could be beaten
00:20:06But we realised that he could be
00:20:08And we were determined
00:20:13To keep all the public arenas
00:20:19Open for free speech
00:20:21Cecil was probably
00:20:23One of the best public speakers
00:20:26I ever heard in my life
00:20:27He had this wonderful speaking voice
00:20:29This wonderful diction
00:20:30And he prepared very hard
00:20:34He never just got up and spoke
00:20:36Cecil Williams
00:20:38As I remember him
00:20:40Was a tall, fine-looking
00:20:42Aristocratic type of person
00:20:44Who spoke what people in London
00:20:48Would say is posh English
00:20:49Like oxford English
00:20:51You could see that the man
00:20:52Wasn't a street brawler
00:20:56Like many of us could be
00:20:58But nevertheless
00:20:59He came along
00:21:01And in fact
00:21:02He could fight as well
00:21:03As anyone else
00:21:07Any other students
00:21:08Gülu lebo
00:21:12Ayen
00:21:15Gulu lebo
00:21:19Ayen
00:21:23Gulu lebo
00:21:29Ayen
00:21:36Everything happened very slowly in South Africa.
00:21:38It wasn't as though there was a sudden shutdown on everything,
00:21:41that everything became illegal overnight,
00:21:43or that we were watched and persecuted and followed and so on just overnight.
00:21:48It was step by step from the period after the war onwards,
00:21:52from the time that the nationalists came into power.
00:21:54Torch Commando headquarters in Johannesburg were kept very busy
00:21:57organising the nationwide protest against South Africa's government.
00:22:01The giant protest was against the government's declared intention
00:22:04to overrule the judges of the Supreme Court.
00:22:06Now, at open-air meetings, demands were made that the government should resign.
00:22:11Torchlight processions had the same object in view.
00:22:13Their organisers claim that the government is adopting a totalitarian attitude.
00:23:06Dear Minister Swart,
00:23:08I acknowledge receipt of your two notices.
00:23:11Prohibiting me from attending gatherings and calling on me to resign as chairman from the Springbok Legion,
00:23:17the Congress of Democrats.
00:23:20It gives me great pleasure to inform you that I consider these prescriptions to be of a temporary nature only,
00:23:27since history abundantly shows that purblind, reactionary attempts to stop the growth and spread of ideals
00:23:35have failed without exception.
00:23:38I repeat my belief that my banning will not be for long.
00:23:42I'm surprised that you and your party have not learned from your experience.
00:23:46You gave moral support to the Nazi tyrant who defied the principles of democracy and destroyed civil liberties.
00:23:53I am proud that I played a small part, along with hundreds of millions of Democrats, to prove the Nazis
00:24:01and your party wrong.
00:24:04I know that your gags and bans will not silence the voices of democracy, nor halt the march forward to
00:24:13liberty, racial harmony and world peace.
00:24:21Your face, Philip, Cecil Williams, chairman of Springbok Legion.
00:24:27We were not allowed to meet with other banned people.
00:24:31We were not allowed to meet in gatherings of more than two people.
00:24:36We were not allowed to leave the Magisterial District of Johannesburg, et cetera, et cetera.
00:24:41We were banned from all kinds of organisations.
00:24:43So, for example, when Cecil was banned, he had to leave.
00:24:48Then I took over and I was banned.
00:24:50We managed.
00:24:51We went secretly to meetings.
00:24:53I mean, we shouldn't be there, but we went.
00:24:56We had a hell of a lot of guts in those days.
00:24:59The most vicious laws at the time were the past laws, past rates and past laws, and also liquor rates.
00:25:16It made African, in particular, to feel that he was in jail even when he was outside jail.
00:25:24When I was singing in the night beat in Hillborough, I was arrested nearly every night after the performance.
00:25:31And at times, I just used to walk out of the nightclub straight into the police van to be taken
00:25:37to Marshall Square,
00:25:38and spend the night there, and pay two pounds the next day, and I was back the same night to
00:25:45sing at the night beat.
00:25:47It was work, and it was a challenge.
00:25:50And it made me feel that I was somebody.
00:25:55I needed to fight the system in some way.
00:25:58I didn't want to end up as my mum and my aunts as a domestic servant.
00:26:03Those days, no black man would walk the streets without any permission.
00:26:11So we had some pass, such a thing called Dom Pass.
00:26:16Your employer must endorse his or her name here.
00:26:20If this passbook is not signed by your employer, you are arrested by the police because you are out of
00:26:27a job.
00:26:28And then you'll be sent to prison.
00:26:31I went to another township, which is just divided by, you know, the road.
00:26:39I just went across to fetch another singer, Tandy Klassen.
00:26:46When I got to her home, the police walked in.
00:26:49They looked at me and said, you don't live here.
00:26:53And I said, no, I don't live here.
00:26:55But they were not dressed as police.
00:26:57And they said, well, you are arrested for being in this township without a permit.
00:27:02So I was taken to the police station.
00:27:05When I got there, the white sergeant said, what were you doing in this township?
00:27:09And I said, oh, I'm a singer.
00:27:11I came to fetch another singer.
00:27:13So he said to me, sing.
00:27:15So I sang, a foggy day in London town, had me low and had me down.
00:27:26I'm here the morning with alarm.
00:27:29Anyway, he said to me, after I had sung, he said, oh,
00:27:33Jay sung van Verplekken, meaning you sing on faraway places.
00:27:38And let me go.
00:27:40I was asked to go and take some books or whatever,
00:27:45magazines to Cecil's flat.
00:27:48And I went up.
00:27:49He was somewhere up in the sixth or ninth floor.
00:27:51And he had a glass window to the entrance.
00:27:56And as I came up and rang the bell,
00:27:59I saw two figures criss-crossing and running across the room.
00:28:04And they were obviously naked.
00:28:07And I felt very embarrassed by this.
00:28:09I had a vague feeling he had slightly feminine gestures occasionally
00:28:13and the way he used his hands and so on.
00:28:18That sort of thing.
00:28:19But the thought that he could be a homosexual never crossed my mind
00:28:23because one didn't acknowledge the existence of such people
00:28:27except as total deviants.
00:28:29I suppose I didn't know a great deal about sex, homosexuality or anything at that time.
00:28:34It's amazing that one can be so grown up and be ignorant.
00:28:37I think that then I realised that there's something different, let's say.
00:28:44But there was no disparagement about it.
00:28:46I don't think the Communist Party or the Congress of Democrats
00:28:50or even the ANC or anybody else discussed Cecil's sexuality.
00:28:54Well, he wasn't the only gay person in the ANC, let's say.
00:29:01Some time ago, it was in the market.
00:29:04I was working there part-time.
00:29:06And it was on a Sunday when I met this man.
00:29:09And they had bought a box of tomatoes.
00:29:11I had to carry them to the car.
00:29:13And he asked me what time was I working off.
00:29:15I told him that in the afternoon round about half past two.
00:29:18He said, oh, half past two, then I'll come and pick you up at half past two.
00:29:22Excuse me.
00:29:42I knocked at the door and somebody from inside said, come in.
00:29:47I opened the door and there was nobody in the lounge.
00:29:49He said, come right in.
00:29:51I walked further.
00:29:53And he said, okay, I'm coming.
00:29:55And there he walked out of the bathroom, stuck naked, was eyes short.
00:30:03Oh, my dear.
00:30:07Then he started petting me and he touched me.
00:30:10Oh, I nearly fainted.
00:30:12But I wanted him to touch me because I wanted.
00:30:19I wanted to go.
00:30:19Gay life in Johannesburg is very tough.
00:30:22To be gay but then as a black man one had to be rich because point number one,
00:30:29you had to have your own privacy.
00:30:31Blacks by then, if you're not married, you're not allowed to own a house.
00:30:37Number two, you wouldn't come into town to enjoy your gay life, to stay in a hotel.
00:30:42There were no hotels for blacks.
00:30:44We had to stand outside the gates of Jubei Park or go to the union grounds,
00:30:49soldier barracks, and there were a lot of soldiers then.
00:30:53Of course, they were whites.
00:30:55Nobody who was not gay would come near the fence.
00:30:59And if they fancy you, he'd ask you, how much?
00:31:03Then you'd say, 26.
00:31:05Okay, he gives you the 26, and you do your thing there.
00:31:09It's at night, nobody will see you.
00:31:15Anstis, built in 1936, was the tallest building and the ultimate in luxury apartment living
00:31:20in the 50s when Cecil lived here on that 16th floor balcony up there.
00:31:27And this whole center was just full of theater people.
00:31:30Across, in that building over there, which is Manus Mansions, there was actor studios,
00:31:36there were producers, there were directors, there were set designers.
00:31:39There was marvelous street life here and a great vibe in Johannesburg.
00:31:52Each morning, a missionary advertised with me on sign.
00:31:58He tells the native population that civilization is fine.
00:32:04And three educated savages hollered from a bongo tree.
00:32:11That civilization is a thing for me to see.
00:32:17So bongo, bongo, bongo, I don't want to leave the Congo.
00:32:20Oh, no, no, no, no, no.
00:32:23Bongo, bongo, bongo, bongo, bongo, I'm so hoppy in the jungle, I refuse to go.
00:32:28Don't want no bright lights, false teeth, doorbells, landlords, I make it clear.
00:32:35That no matter how they coax him, I'll stay right here.
00:32:46The building right next to Grand Central was, there was a shop called Manhattan's there,
00:32:51and that summed it all up.
00:32:53The Manhattan of Africa, Johannesburg, city of gold.
00:32:58And this building, yes.
00:33:02Well, we thought we were going to find this man's family or something, or a maid, or...
00:33:11No, there was no maid, there was no black helper.
00:33:15It was just himself who said, okay, relax, guys, relax.
00:33:18And he gave us something, was it wine or what?
00:33:21I don't know.
00:33:22He gave us some wine.
00:33:22He gave us some wine, and he took off his jacket.
00:33:26There was, what do you call it, a pinnacle, what is it?
00:33:28No, on a apron, on a table thing, and then he was busy preparing a meal for us.
00:33:36We were shocked.
00:33:38What kind of a white guy is this, you know?
00:33:40I mean, actually preparing food for us.
00:33:45And he did it, and daintily he was doing everything, you know?
00:33:51Yeah.
00:33:52And then, but every time, you know, when we sat there, we didn't talk, he didn't talk politics.
00:34:00People in the political arena, and he would talk about them just to see if at all we know what's
00:34:08going on, whether we can catch up and continue and develop the conversation with him.
00:34:14But you could feel that he was pushing us, you know, nicely to what's deciding, you know, I mean, to
00:34:27what we, I mean, to a point where we must decide how we stand in this country.
00:34:32But we were a little bit scared, you know, of just talking to any white person, just in case you
00:34:40get, you're talking to a, you are in a trap of some kind.
00:34:44Until then Paul came around and said, hey man, that guy is great, he's all right.
00:34:49I personally found out that he was politically involved when he was arrested with Mandela.
00:34:57That was the only time when I realized this man has been trying to work us into something that was
00:35:05just beyond us.
00:35:06We were not really into politics.
00:35:08I think, I think we took him for a liberal maybe, you know, South African liberal.
00:35:14The man was beyond liberalism, you know, liberalism.
00:35:21We'll only learn that later.
00:35:23Did you ever go to his flat in Anstis buildings?
00:35:26Yes, I did.
00:35:28I did, I think only once, of course.
00:35:31And what was your impression?
00:35:33Well, he was a very, very, very kind chap.
00:35:37And he was friendly with some of the young men whom I found there.
00:35:45And he gave an impression of a perfect gentleman.
00:35:51Walter, did you know that he was gay?
00:35:56Yes, I got to know about that.
00:35:59And what did you think about it?
00:36:00Well, I'm a bit conservative in the line of that.
00:36:08I am only accepted as a matter, became accepted by the movement.
00:36:14If anybody wants to understand why, to the surprise of so many people,
00:36:19the ANC took such a progressive open stand on the question of gay rights,
00:36:24you've just got to go back to Cecil.
00:36:27I mean, he was the person, the living example of a freedom fighter who happened to be gay.
00:36:35And he brought something special into the movement.
00:36:38You know, he raised our consciousness in relation to these questions by his life, by who he was.
00:36:45Cecil actually changed my life a lot because when we were working in the theatre and I got to know
00:36:54him more intimately,
00:36:56he made me seriously aware of the kind of society that I was living in and how wrong it was
00:37:03and what an immoral society it was.
00:37:05It was because of him that I became a member of the Liberal Party and I began to be, to
00:37:13an extent, politically active.
00:37:15Cecil was different from the ordinary white men.
00:37:18You know, Cecil was dandy.
00:37:19Cecil would wear a glen check, a viola shirt, you know, some studs.
00:37:26And his shoes, that's another important thing, because expensive shoes were worn by Africans in this country.
00:37:33The whites would wear hush puppy shoes with a wonderful suit.
00:37:36And then Cecil was that type of a guy, you know.
00:37:46When I was just a little girl, I asked my mother, what will I be?
00:37:55Will I be pretty? Will I be rich?
00:37:59Here's what she said to me.
00:38:21In the repressive atmosphere that we were in, homosexuals felt that they had to stay underground
00:38:29and that they must really keep themselves very much to themselves.
00:38:44A Durban competition for hats with a theme produced some delightful flights of fancy
00:38:48and several designers turned to horse racing for inspiration.
00:38:52These should be firm favourites and tear away winners at the Durban July.
00:38:57One evening, I went to what was called a hat party, which was part of the sort of gay scene
00:39:03of Johannesburg.
00:39:04And when I say gay, I mean lively.
00:39:06And we all had to dress up and wear hats which we had made ourselves.
00:39:12And I arrived at this party with a friend and as we came into the room,
00:39:19Cecil and his partner were sitting in the chair in the corner
00:39:24and we looked at each other and he just threw his arms out and he said,
00:39:28well, darling, it had to come out at some stage.
00:39:38In the 50s, one met gay people at gay parties or gavots, as they were referred to.
00:39:45Most of us pretending to be straight when we weren't.
00:39:48Or you were more secret than that.
00:39:50You went cruising.
00:39:51Well, of course, eventually you recognised all your friends cruising as well
00:39:55and you didn't acknowledge one another then.
00:39:58There was very little cross-colour picking up in those days.
00:40:03I mean, one didn't think of black people as being gay or...
00:40:07Well, one never thought about it because you couldn't take them anywhere.
00:40:45Bachelors Cove.
00:40:47Marvellous.
00:40:51All the queer society of Cape Town would congregate there.
00:40:56White Sooney, of course.
00:40:58But just next was Maiden's Cove, a coloured beach.
00:41:02And between them, a rocky promontory,
00:41:05where if you were lucky, you might strike up a conversation with a young coloured man
00:41:08and maybe he'd turn out to be a rent boy or...
00:41:13maybe a married schoolteacher.
00:41:18Or maybe...
00:41:21a bricklayer who loved the theatre.
00:41:34I was always worried that the police would catch me.
00:41:37Not in some communist activity, but somehow or other on the homosexuality.
00:41:41Of course, it would be particularly dangerous to be caught with a black man.
00:41:43So, somehow I managed to stay away from that urge.
00:41:50Until I met Vincent.
00:41:56When I drove him home after some blissful afternoon,
00:42:02he would have to sit in the back of the car.
00:42:06Oh, how humiliating he must have found that.
00:42:10If you don't think the tribal dances do something to you, ask Danny Kaye.
00:42:26We were busy in the theatre carving careers for ourselves.
00:42:29What the politicians got up to was no business of ours,
00:42:31and we weren't even interested.
00:42:33The whole thing about having a normal life in South Africa is, for a white,
00:42:38meant that you supported apartheid,
00:42:42either openly or else by the way that you lived and the things that you did.
00:42:46The children had to go to white schools,
00:42:48and they had to participate in white activities.
00:42:51As soon as they stepped outside the front gate,
00:42:54they had a different sense of social attitudes and moralities
00:42:58than they had when they were inside our home,
00:43:00and it became more and more noticeable as they grew up.
00:43:04On Sundays, we very often had a lot of friends,
00:43:07Indians and Africans, who would come for lunch.
00:43:09We had these big open brides, you know, barbecues outside,
00:43:13and servants to clear up afterwards, so it wasn't a great hassle for us.
00:43:18And at some time in the beginning of the week,
00:43:20Tony would say to me,
00:43:22Are you expecting friends on Sunday?
00:43:25Now, the inference of that remark is,
00:43:27If you are, I can't ask my friends to come and swim on Sunday.
00:43:31And these things were very uncomfortable for her,
00:43:34and uncomfortable for the other children,
00:43:35very hard for them to understand,
00:43:38hard for them even to acquire the different kind of language that we used
00:43:41when you didn't call grown-up men and women boys and girls.
00:43:52The decision to draw up a Freedom Charter
00:43:54was taken by the Joint Congresses,
00:43:57the African, Indian, Coloured and White sections of the Congress movement.
00:44:02The Congress of the People marked a sort of turning point
00:44:05in the development of the whole liberation movement,
00:44:08because up to that time,
00:44:10the liberation movement had been a small group of people
00:44:12who formulated policy and went out to the public and said,
00:44:16This is our policy, support us.
00:44:18And for the first time, that process had been turned upside down.
00:44:22And they went to the people and said,
00:44:23Tell us what you want us to include in a Freedom Charter,
00:44:26which will be our campaigning tool for the future in South Africa.
00:44:31And these demands, as we called them,
00:44:33came in in their thousands,
00:44:35on little slips of paper from all over the country.
00:44:38Now came the problem of putting them into a charter.
00:44:42And so it fell to me to try and put some shape
00:44:44onto these thousands of demands, which I did.
00:44:46And I drafted the original draft of the Freedom Charter,
00:44:50which then went back to the various Congresses
00:44:53and so on for approval.
00:44:55It was no longer the struggle of just ANC.
00:44:59It was the struggle of the progressive people,
00:45:04and in particular, the oppressed people.
00:45:07That started a different way of working,
00:45:09which went on through the rest of the liberation movement.
00:45:13Lord, God.
00:46:06The State decided that this Freedom Charter and the Congress of the People had been an attempt
00:46:11to overthrow the state by force and violence, and they arrested a number of us and decided
00:46:17to charge us with treason.
00:46:33The State decided that this Freedom Charter and the Congress of the People had been an attempt,
00:46:56and they arrested a number of us.
00:47:05I was a young law student, and I'd just come up and I was looking at the old comrades with
00:47:12a lot of admiration, and Cecil Williams was quite an important name.
00:47:16I mean, he was a theatre director.
00:47:18He wasn't just someone in the struggle.
00:47:20And I was, like, talking away slightly nervously, and I said, oh, so-and-so, he's just a negrophilist.
00:47:28And Cecil said, oh, that's a very fancy word.
00:47:32What does that mean?
00:47:33And you said, oh, Cecil, come off it.
00:47:36Having been thrown out of my first show here, I was very upset, but the very next person
00:47:40I went to see was Cecil Williams, who was about to produce Kimberley Train, and I got cast
00:47:47as the juvenile lead in that.
00:47:48The juvenile lead was a sort of northern suburbs, rather posh young man.
00:47:53It was an interesting experience, a boy who falls in love with his secretary, who turns
00:47:59out to be a coloured girl, who is playing white.
00:48:03And that's what the whole play was about.
00:48:05I was coming out of the closet in those days and didn't even know that I was gay.
00:48:14But in the dressing room one day, Cecil came trouncing back, saying, your kiss on stage
00:48:22doesn't work at all.
00:48:23This is how you do it.
00:48:25And there, on that minute he grabbed me in his arms, stuck his tongue in my mouth and
00:48:30did the full works.
00:48:31Why, I was shattered.
00:48:34I was trying to put on the Kimberley Train.
00:48:37It was 1959.
00:48:39In the middle of that absurd bloody treason trial which put more than 150 of our comrades
00:48:45out of action, some of them more than six years.
00:48:48Of course, blacks and whites could be tried on treason together.
00:48:52But could they watch play together?
00:48:53Heaven forbid.
00:48:55Everywhere I went I was told I couldn't admit non-Europeans.
00:48:58The library theatre, against municipal bylaws.
00:49:01Witz University, disruptive for the students.
00:49:03OK, so what about outdoors?
00:49:05Aha, the zoo lake.
00:49:07The city council has declared even that a whites-only park.
00:49:10So, off we go to the dear old Bantu men's social centre where the stage is rudimentary
00:49:17in our meticulous place.
00:49:18A painstakingly lit has to be flung on like a slut in des amis.
00:49:23So, we are to offer to our non-white patrons an inferior production and expect them to be enthusiastic
00:49:28about the theatre.
00:49:29Damn silly.
00:49:33Thank heavens there was always Dorkey House where talented black performers could meet
00:49:39and practise their craft.
00:49:41I taught there for many years.
00:49:43Still further proof, no doubt, to the authorities of my anti-social tendencies.
00:49:49Well, those days, any white man working with blacks, well, had a file with a special branch
00:49:57because they don't trust anyone that works with blacks.
00:50:00So, they were either communists or dirty liberals.
00:50:05Dorkey House just sort of became a nest for human beings, a sanctuary for people.
00:50:13Everybody who was in Dorkey House was a friend, you understand?
00:50:18Everybody, any white person who gets into Dorkey House is a friend.
00:50:22Dorkey House humanised us.
00:50:25And you got dehumanised immediately, you got into the jungle of the city of Johannesburg.
00:50:31You hit the concrete jungle and you hit the policemen.
00:50:34And you hit the white people that pushes off the sidewalks.
00:50:40And you walk into a place where you want to buy yourself a nice shirt like Cecil Williams.
00:50:48And you are not allowed to fit the shirt.
00:50:52Cecil came to us, I think it was only about 59.
00:50:55And then here was this nice guy, expensive and suave and debonate.
00:51:03The only time why we were human was when we were walking to Dorkey House.
00:51:07And suddenly you go through a transformation spiritually, mentally, and even physically,
00:51:12you feel a little lighter and taller.
00:51:15That is the essence of Dorkey House.
00:51:18I think he taught me to be articulate.
00:51:22Cecil was meticulous.
00:51:25Cecil taught me how to read a script, how to understand text.
00:51:30Cecil said, I want to show you how to go about choking this man.
00:51:35And he sat on the chair, he says, now, will you go round my neck?
00:51:38And Zeix went in there.
00:51:40Zeix could not put his hands around Cecil's collar because it was so impeccably clean.
00:51:49And the man says, put your hands around me.
00:51:51Come on, do it.
00:51:52And Zeix put his hands around that.
00:51:54And he was somewhat very apologetic about the collar.
00:51:59Cecil, in those early years, was actually teaching us to be assertive.
00:52:07Because as an African, we have a tendency of being apologetic all the time.
00:52:13And always being on the defensive.
00:52:16And he would make you feel equal.
00:52:20He didn't treat us like little boys and girls.
00:52:23We were equal.
00:52:24If he didn't like a thing, he would say it.
00:52:26And if you did well, he would also say it.
00:52:29One day Cecil was worried.
00:52:32He says to me, Ken, when we finish rehearsing here, I want you to come up to my flat.
00:52:37I have a problem there with my house helper.
00:52:40He wouldn't say maid.
00:52:41A Cecil for you.
00:52:43He wouldn't say maid.
00:52:44So he says, now, I have a problem.
00:52:46Her name is Jane.
00:52:48She's a graceful lady, but she keeps on calling me boss Cecil.
00:52:54I always tell her, look, Jane, call me Cecil.
00:52:57But she wouldn't.
00:52:59Now, I want you now, Ken, to come over there.
00:53:01Talk to her in your language.
00:53:03So we went up there.
00:53:05And we met Jane.
00:53:07Well, I talked to Jane in my language.
00:53:10Jane Cecil is complaining.
00:53:13And Jane says that how.
00:53:17Why?
00:53:18He says, Jane, Cecil says you're calling him boss.
00:53:24Jane looks at me and thinks that I'm mad.
00:53:26And then Jane says how.
00:53:28He is boss.
00:53:30He was intense.
00:53:31He was a tub thumper.
00:53:34And if you talked about having a maid, oh, you really got it then.
00:53:39You got the full sort of diatribe about apartheid and all the rest of it.
00:53:46It was a closed book, Cecil Williams was.
00:53:49Private life.
00:53:50We knew nothing about his private life.
00:53:54He must have gone cruising and he met this chap who seemed pleasant enough.
00:54:00And Cecil took him somewhere in Bromfontein.
00:54:03The guy said, come in for a minute.
00:54:05The guy said, come in for a minute.
00:54:26This diamond ring that Mrs. Sharp had given him went flying off his finger.
00:54:32And dazed and beaten up as he was, he went for it and he got it back.
00:54:38And I went into town and saw him in his flat and he was in a dreadful state.
00:54:43Now he was in hospital.
00:54:45He phoned me up to say would I come and see him.
00:54:48That was really the stage at which I realised that he was a practising homosexual.
00:54:54You have to be stupid if you don't understand that why he was beaten up.
00:55:00But still he didn't really come forth about it.
00:55:06I think it was the only time in his life that I ever saw him blush.
00:55:11When he actually said to me, well, I am homosexual.
00:55:14And in due course he actually arranged a party for me to meet a number of his gay friends.
00:55:21There weren't any of his political friends at that party.
00:55:26And he didn't make a big issue of his homosexuality or what his friend's sexual orientation was.
00:55:33When I came out, you know, Cecil in a sense disapproved of that.
00:55:37I told my family and I told colleagues and so on.
00:55:41And Cecil was really quite taken aback and said, well, why don't you put a notice in the Sunday Times?
00:55:47There was a meeting that had been arranged for all the black leaders.
00:55:52People next door, the flat to which they were going, had seen black people going into the flat in a
00:55:57white area.
00:55:58And phone up for the police, obviously.
00:56:02So this meeting had to be broken up.
00:56:05He came to my flat and it was a very tiny flat.
00:56:11And Nelson, being big and heavy at the time, I said to him, well, you take the bed and I'll
00:56:16take the camp stretcher.
00:56:17And we had a bit of an argument about that.
00:56:21And then I had to give in, of course.
00:56:25When we drove together to go to all these meetings, he would wear his chauffeur's cap and coat.
00:56:35And he was my chauffeur.
00:56:38We drove around all over.
00:56:40We had several meetings for the movement and also to see individuals.
00:56:46A man and his wife were having clashes.
00:56:49He knew them very well.
00:56:51And he insisted, although the whole of the defence force and police were looking for him,
00:56:56that he had to go and intervene because he knew he could patch this up.
00:57:01I arrived at the end of March 1959 in Joburg.
00:57:0825 years old and I met Cecil in August 1959.
00:57:15There on the couch is a naked man.
00:57:20John.
00:57:22My new affair.
00:57:28A Scot, cantankerous like all Scots are, but what a beauty.
00:57:33What brains.
00:57:37We'd camped each other, can you believe it?
00:57:39At a bloody protest meeting on the steps of St. Mary's Cathedral.
00:57:46Anyway, that's another story.
00:57:49I was totally ignorant about the political situation in South Africa.
00:57:57I knew a few oddments about it, but I wasn't really, you know, fully aware of what was happening.
00:58:05I did not know for a long time how involved Cecil was in the political affairs of South Africa.
00:58:16Anyway, there on the couch is a naked man.
00:58:21And there, at the door, is a knock.
00:58:26It's after midnight.
00:58:28John scuttles off to make himself decent.
00:58:31Re-emerges.
00:58:32I do not make introductions.
00:58:35I ask the comrade if he'd like to stay for some coffee.
00:58:40To my intense relief, he declines.
00:58:43As he leaves, he nods curtly at John.
00:58:48John and I don't say a word.
00:58:50Not a word about it, ever.
00:58:54The next morning, I tell John that I'm away for a while.
00:58:56He frowns, but he knows the rules, no questions.
00:59:02As I drive down to the Cape, to my urgent assignment, I think about John.
00:59:10And of my growing love for him.
00:59:13I began to meet Cecil's friends from all walks of lives, including black Africans.
00:59:24Lord.
00:59:26To think that this little room has hosted not only Danny Kaye, Larry Olivier, but also Nelson and Winnie Mandela.
00:59:33Funny to think that Nelson was sitting there.
00:59:35Right there were only a few nights previously, Jackie Muller, dressed from head to toe in leather, sat with one
00:59:43of his tatty Natalie numbers on his knee.
00:59:50Natalie's gay South African slang for a black person.
00:59:54Natalie, native.
00:59:57I'm Wendy, of course.
00:59:59Wendy, white.
01:00:02Colours we call chloras, or if they're Queen's, moffies.
01:00:08Then there's Priscilla.
01:00:10She's the one who would raid your queer parties.
01:00:13She's the one who slapped a banning order on Mandela.
01:00:16Priscilla's the one we had to be extra careful of that night.
01:00:18Why?
01:00:20Because that night wasn't just our usual set.
01:00:23So why did I include my new love?
01:00:26You know, I think it just happened.
01:00:29It was late 1959.
01:00:31Defiance was on a roll.
01:00:33It was a spring Johannesburg evening.
01:00:36Nelson Mandela was coming to dinner.
01:00:39And I was in love.
01:00:43That's good not allowed to use the lifts to come up all those flights of stairs.
01:00:47I think Nelson would have just come in the front of the building and walked up the stairs.
01:00:53Yeah. He was fit anyway.
01:00:55It was a very fascinating dinner party, but I had no idea of the political significance of the people that
01:01:07I was actually meeting.
01:01:08To me it was an ordinary, civilised, professional, pleasant dinner party.
01:01:33African resistance against the past laws mounted.
01:01:36A protest in March 1960 led to an event that stunned the world.
01:01:40Sharkville.
01:01:46No one knew how the shooting started.
01:01:48A crowd had marched on a police station.
01:01:5069 Africans were killed.
01:01:52178 wounded.
01:01:55South Africa still believes the world reacted hysterically.
01:01:58But as confrontation with black anger followed, the two main African political parties were banned.
01:02:06I got a phone call at home. It was from Nelson Mandela. He didn't give his name.
01:02:11He asked for my husband. He said, just give him this message when he comes in. It's very important.
01:02:17Repeat it. And he hung up.
01:02:20The message was Greek to me, so I wrote it down so that I wouldn't forget it.
01:02:25And when Jack came in, he realised it wasn't one of the usual raids by the Special Branch, but it
01:02:30was arrests.
01:02:31At the time of the Sharkville emergency, Cecil approached my mother and he said,
01:02:37would you mind putting a couple of my friends out for a few days?
01:02:42They're on the run from the police.
01:02:45And my mother thought about it and then said, yes, as long as they're not Jewish.
01:02:52And Cecil was horrified, of course, and said, what do you mean?
01:02:57And my mother said, well, I can't do Jewish cooking.
01:03:00About two o'clock in the morning, they came to arrest both of us, so we were both in jail
01:03:06for the...
01:03:08I was for most of the emergency and Rusty for the whole of the emergency.
01:03:12It hit my mother, Thelma, very hard when she had to visit Cecil at the fort and subsequently in Pretoria.
01:03:21It's not what she envisaged for herself, you know, visiting people in prison, let alone one's brother.
01:03:27This was the first time that they had a large batch of white, middle-class people as prisoners.
01:03:32They didn't know how to handle us. And we got away with a great deal because of that.
01:03:37Cecil took to organising dramatic productions for us, working with a cast of, an all-male cast, of very amateurish
01:03:48and not very artistic or theatrical people.
01:03:50We women were the first to go on a hunger strike, ever, as a group of people in prison, in
01:03:58South Africa at any rate.
01:04:00And we needed to get the men to join us in this hunger strike. It was urgent.
01:04:05And the only person who could do it was Helen Joseph, because she had to go out every day to
01:04:11attend the treason trial.
01:04:13And her hair was done in a bun, and the letter was put in her bun, and that's how she
01:04:19took it out to Nelson Mandela.
01:04:21And then the men got the message, and they joined us in the hunger strike.
01:04:25I did not know that Cecil had been arrested.
01:04:30And, of course, it was illegal for the press to publish who had been arrested.
01:04:39When he came out, I can't remember how long he was in there, he then looked tanned, lean, bronzed and
01:04:45marvellous.
01:04:49Kissing his wife goodbye, Jack Hodgson, a South African who's been ordered to stay at home for five years,
01:04:55by South Africa's Minister of Justice.
01:04:58His wife, Rika Hodgson, is kept in for 12 hours a day, but she's allowed to go to work.
01:05:03Jack can't go beyond the tiny balcony. No visitors allowed, and just this view to look at.
01:05:11We had reached an impasse in which there was nothing now that could be done.
01:05:18There was nothing legal that could be done.
01:05:21There are many people who feel that it is useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and non
01:05:28-violence
01:05:28against a government whose reply is only savage attacks on an unarmed and defenceless people.
01:05:37And I think the time has come for us to consider, in the light of our experiences in this stay
01:05:43at home,
01:05:44whether the methods which we have applied so far are adequate.
01:05:51Nelson had been abroad, organising international support for the armed struggle.
01:05:57Because he was banned, he'd had to leave the country illegally.
01:06:01Now he needed to come home, and I was given the task of smuggling him back in.
01:06:07We were tense until we crossed the Betuanaland border.
01:06:11At first we were meticulous about playing our appointed roles, but pretty soon I was sharing the driving.
01:06:18Nelson is a reserved man, as am I, but so full of stimuli was he, and so eager to know
01:06:24about what had been happening in his absence,
01:06:26that once we were back in South Africa there was scarcely a moment's silence.
01:06:29I was explaining to him the attitude of political organisations in Africa,
01:06:40who did not understand our policy of non-racialism,
01:06:46and of working together with non-Africans, like coloureds, Indians and whites.
01:06:59But I explained to those organisations that we determine our policy in accordance with our condition.
01:07:10There is no country in Africa, which has a unique situation such as we have,
01:07:18where you have a substantial white community, which has lived in this country for more than three centuries,
01:07:28and some of whom have decided to abandon the privileges of their group, and to make common cause with us.
01:07:39We made our way down to Durban, where I dropped him into Comrade's home.
01:07:45The following morning I picked him up and we began our drive back to Johannesburg.
01:07:50I had spent the evening with a friend, carefully selected because he was, well, as politically aware as a feather
01:07:56boa.
01:07:58True to form, when I arrived at his flat, I'd found a party in full swing,
01:08:02centred in classic Durban fashion round some men off a ship.
01:08:06As I said, dry Martini in hand, I marvelled once more at the contradictions of my existence.
01:08:13Who the hell are you, Cecil Williams, I asked myself.
01:08:17.
01:08:18.
01:09:22Lord, Priscilla had been very unthorough in her search. There they were, where he'd left them, lodged between the leather
01:09:29cushions.
01:09:42Oh, my lord. Marilyn Monroe's dead. She died on the very same bloody day that we were arrested. The sheer
01:09:53absurdity of it still takes my breath away. The arrest of Nelson Mandela, the death of Norma Jean. Two legends
01:10:01felled. You must have created on the very same day.
01:10:07As I drove back to Johannesburg through the gathering dusk, I wept from exhaustion, from misery, from confusion, from the
01:10:18sheer hopelessness of it all, from guilt.
01:10:20Why? Why did I take the wheel? Why did I agree to take the wheel? Unless we've been too careless.
01:10:29I was in my mid-fifties. Yet I felt, in many ways, as if I'd just undergone some terrible rite
01:10:36of passage into adulthood.
01:10:40Nelson had always spoken to me so freely that I knew that if I cracked, I could be responsible for
01:10:46his lifelong imprisonment, even for his death.
01:10:54I was utterly alone.
01:10:58Any friend that I confided to, or even contacted, would be vulnerable.
01:11:05I'd visit my handler, Joe Slovo, for my debriefing, and I hand over the revolver in the notebook.
01:11:16And then, out of silence, I'd spend the rest of my life in jail before I would talk.
01:11:25Looking back, I do think it was dangerous. But at the time, I never thought of it.
01:11:32I thought it was the correct thing. I still think that, despite the dangers, it was the correct thing to
01:11:38do.
01:11:39We were engaged in a liberation movement. And that was the main thing, preparing the liberation movement.
01:11:47It has got its own dangers. You can't completely avoid it.
01:11:52Cecil came to our house because he wanted to have lunch with his father and play a crib in case
01:11:59he went to prison.
01:12:00A police car drew up outside, and he instructed my mother, don't open the door until I finish my game
01:12:08of cards with Dad.
01:12:10I don't know what he did the rest of the afternoon, but was obviously followed by the police.
01:12:16And he went back to his flat in Amstey's building, and when he got to the bottom, there was a
01:12:22night watchman who said,
01:12:24Mr. Williams, I don't think you should go upstairs. They're waiting for you.
01:12:28And he took refuge in a gay bathhouse where he spent the night, until eventually he realized, well, he couldn't
01:12:34spend the rest of his life there
01:12:36and would have to come out sometime.
01:12:51Jack and Rika under house arrest. Rusty and Hilda under house arrest. Joe and Ruth. All under house arrest.
01:13:00Yes, but at least they've got each other. They've got kids to talk to. Gardens to sit in.
01:13:08Everyday petty domesticities to preoccupy them.
01:13:13But John's teaching in Cape Town. I'm utterly alone. I'm here in my prison in the sky.
01:13:22They're going to charge me. I know that. They're going to put me away.
01:13:27OK, so what are my options? I could go underground.
01:13:32Me? Cecil Williams? Underground? Doing what? Shakespeare?
01:13:37I'm a pacifist, for God's sake. What am I going to do? Take up arms?
01:13:42I'm ten thumbs, as John loves to say. I'm hardly any good at handling a hammer, let alone a hand
01:13:47grenade.
01:13:50What happened to our dreams?
01:13:54Oh, to hell with the brotherhood of man. To hell with communism.
01:14:01What good has my paltry theatre done, hmm?
01:14:05Brilliant, Williams. You put a black man and a white woman on the stage together.
01:14:08Do you think that would bring the walls of fascism tumbling down?
01:14:11John?
01:14:19John's going.
01:14:21He's leaving, with or without me.
01:14:24I shall sit in prison.
01:14:27Alone.
01:14:28Nobody to visit me.
01:14:31I can't put my sister Thelma through that.
01:14:37Pull yourself together, Williams.
01:14:40It's now or never.
01:14:43Now.
01:14:47He came to visit us during the day, and it was obviously a last meal with his father.
01:14:55And he mentioned to my mother and me that he was going to be leaving the country.
01:15:02And he asked for a spade and some sacks in case they got bogged down on sandy roads on the
01:15:10Botswana border.
01:15:12And off he went.
01:15:15Cecil was somebody who had helped me be what I am.
01:15:20Cecil had opened horizons for me, and I owed him.
01:15:25The fact that he'd asked me to help him, I guess, was the highest compliment he could pay me.
01:15:31And once I satisfied myself that he was being truthful, that his bona fides were right, that his promises of
01:15:40future conduct were believable.
01:15:42And that was, if you help me to go to Europe, then I undertake never again to participate actively in
01:15:51any course of action
01:15:52which will be prejudicial to South Africa or Southern Africa.
01:15:56Then I decided to assist him, in fact, to leave Southern Africa to go to Europe to lead a happy
01:16:03life again.
01:16:52I got out with the help of my gay networks and the diamonds in my written form,
01:16:56my underwear. A friend drove me under the cover of night to the Betuanaland border and another
01:17:04fellow put me in touch with a farmer who took me across. When I arrived in Lebatsi the whole
01:17:10bloody town was waiting for me. I knew I was in danger. I could be abducted back across the border
01:17:16by the South African security forces. So I contacted an ex-student who now ran the railway
01:17:22police. He got me to Bulawayo and put me on a plane northwards where I would meet John.
01:17:28We settled in Britain. One by one my friends joined me in exile. Back in South Africa Nelson Mandela
01:17:36was sentenced to life imprisonment. I died in London in 1979. We all know what happened to Nelson.
01:17:54I died in Delhi. . . I died in Melbourne. . .
01:18:06we have the mostabilirish RESERCAY
01:18:09we have the most. Oh, you have the most problems. We are just wiry.
01:18:23Last night a trend of star falling
01:18:30The moon was red as the blood
01:18:34Pleased clouds moving by
01:18:38In the African skies
01:18:42Ridin' this sky
01:18:46Tears off bad winds
01:18:47Bad winds and shore valleys
01:18:51I hear the people shouting
01:18:55Far away for peace
01:18:59Singing revolutionary songs
01:19:03I hear the people shouting
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