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00:06Dragon's Den is open for business I don't often say this but your pitch was awful you've got to
00:13be quiet for this a little bit Peter if that's all right ouch a place where budding entrepreneurs
00:18are given a once-in-a-lifetime chance you have this most bizarre way of answering questions
00:27to present their wares to five captains of commerce you wanted to see how credible we are
00:33so I'm about to show you show me some will succeed and go on to make millions others will fail
00:43and
00:44leave with nothing making the counter for tell him to shove it where the Sun doesn't shine the hunt
00:49is on to find the next big money-making idea dragons are go tonight this might have been a
00:58fatal mistake to put your dragons to sleep before we start the pitches so you have not got an exclusive
01:04in the UK on got exclusive at all I think it's a terrible business patron I think you're probably
01:09best off just declaring that you're out okay so you quite like likes it unfortunately business is
01:14business I'd be I have to say I do agree with Tuga finally whoa my name is Gina I'm 30
01:31years old
01:32and I'm originally from Lebanon you're gonna do so well Gina thank you I think it's a manicure set
01:40do you wear nail polish no a lot men wear nail polish now does Paul wear nail polish no because
01:47it chips when he's doing the horses there was a lot of sweat and a lot of blood and a
01:55lot of tears
01:55to get this product it's a market I remember there was a Christmas where I was literally mixing gels and
02:02crying at the same time so literal tears have gone into this product hello dragons my name is Gina and
02:18I'm the founder of place I'm here today to ask for a hundred thousand pounds in return for a four
02:25percent
02:25stake in my business growing up during a turbulent time in Lebanon manicures became the ultimate form
02:32of self-care for me but when I started working in finance I rarely had time to go to the
02:38salon and I
02:40was terrible at painting my own nails so I wanted to come up with a better way and that's where
02:46glaze
02:46comes in glazes on a mission to disrupt the nail care industry by giving consumers more sustainable
02:53salon quality manicures at a fraction of the cost and time of existing solutions our hero product
03:02is our made-to-measure stick-on gels customers choose their favorite color or design and submit a few
03:09pictures of their hands using our patent-pending technology we are able to create a fully custom
03:16sized manicure that is delivered directly to our customers letterbox all you need to do is stick them
03:23on and you're good to go to remove them you simply peel them off since soft launching just six months
03:30ago we've generated over 40,000 pounds in sales with minimal marketing and we're now ready to take place
03:37to the next level and I hope you join us on our journey thank you stick on gels made to
03:46fit your unique nail
03:47size and shape is the offering from Gina Farron you've done a great job I'd say she's looking for
03:53100,000 pounds what about these I think you've done a better job oh you know why can I use
04:03to it in return
04:05she'll give away a four percent stake in her business what's happened here Sarah do you want you want me
04:15to
04:16touch them let me finish it up don't you to I'm shown yet they look quite good to be fair
04:20they do while Queen of Crafting
04:23Sarah Davies admires her handiwork nail novice Peter Jones is keen to learn more
04:32Gina hi when I when I first saw them and put them on I thought that these would be in
04:38a similar way to
04:39sort of false nails but it isn't is it because this is ultimately just to replace the part that
04:45where you paint your nails correct for now yes so in essence then it's a colored sticky label on a
04:51nail
04:51well you could say that yes but the way we've looked at the product formulation and the reason it's been
04:58hard for us to do is because we wanted to create a product that actually looked like a gel as
05:04opposed
05:04to a sticker that mimics a gel can I just ask a question to the ladies because obviously I don't
05:10use I don't paint my nails we can see that but from your perspective putting that on your nail would
05:16you prefer to put something sticking you know like that or do you prefer to paint your nails I think
05:20it's a terrible business paper and I think you're probably best off just declaring that you're out oh
05:24okay so you quite like likes it Gina hi I'm sorry this was not at all what I was expecting
05:33I've never
05:34heard of anything like this I mean it's if it is as good as what you said it is all
05:40my word are you
05:41going to disrupt this industry and then some I mean it sounds incredible so is anyone else doing stick
05:48on nails made to measure like this so there is a company called mani me in the u.s. that
05:54has a
05:54similar kind of product where you actually have to take pictures of their hands so there's a company
05:59in the u.s. who is doing exactly the same thing or almost the same thing in terms of the
06:03sizing they
06:04are doing something very similar yes so you can order made to measure stick-on gels okay so is their
06:10product patented yes okay what is it that you have the patent application for that so what we're
06:17claiming for is how we convert the 2d mask that we extract from um from the images you submit into
06:25the final made to measure template okay and what's their claim on their patent because this business
06:31will live or die on its intellectual property yeah so I just need to understand how watertight it is
06:36yeah versus the competition that's out there yeah so we've basically we have different approaches to
06:43get to a similar product I think both patents should be valid but I'm not a patent expert that's why
06:49we
06:49have the lawyers so um Gina I just want to I really want to get my mind wrapped around the
06:56comparisons
06:57between what currently happens and the sustainability piece because I can see looking at Sara's nails I mean
07:04they are a great alternative but the reason I would prefer that is if it's better in terms of the
07:11the environment than the existing than the what we currently do yeah so what are you know why would
07:17I feel better about them buying this product than the you know getting their nail polish and doing
07:23themselves yeah so I'm not gonna greenwash um that's a really good start uh what I will say is that
07:34at the
07:35moment uh we've done what we can in terms of the bio-based content we haven't yet done the end
07:42of life
07:42tests to truly understand how this compares to a gel product however because we have a great formulation
07:50chemist we're gonna try and get to a place where the product is a lot more sustainable than anything else
07:57that's that's out there okay well that's that's a good answer because actually that's the answer the
08:02consumer wants to hear nobody's perfect everybody has an impact are you on the journey do you really
08:09intend to get better to make this better than we currently are yeah so you've come in here with a
08:16valuation of what to an opinion right turned over 40 000 so I want to explore a few things so
08:24your
08:25background is what prior to this uh in investment banking right hence the fact the valuation
08:32so if we look at the 40 000 yeah for for example yeah before we consume so your gross profits
08:38how
08:38much 34 000 34 000 and I guess you've lost money in the first year or yeah so we because
08:46we've had to
08:46invest heavily in the product and we built our own factory we've so how much have you invested totally
08:51so we've invested around 800 000 how much 800 000 pounds in the business 800 000 pounds yeah we've
09:00raised money from uh institutional investors and business angels wow wow and out of the 800 000 you've
09:08collected how much you've got left around 150 000. so is this investment part of a bigger round yeah we've
09:16already closed uh 200k from existing investors and what the business will need overall is 500 000
09:24for us and what were the terms of the 200k that you closed from existing investors yeah so uh the
09:30valuation
09:31was 5 million actually as opposed to the 2.5 so i knew that the valuation was going to be
09:36a bit of a
09:37hairy topic today so i came in slashing it by 50 percent good still steep still steep if you ask
09:44me
09:44yeah with 40k in sales to have a 2.5 million valuation i agree that if you look at the
09:51valuation just
09:52with the sales we've got it is ridiculous i totally agree what yes yeah but but what you're investing in
10:00is not the sales because we've had to scale up cautiously to make sure that we're not losing
10:06control of of the quality so uh we didn't want to go out of the gate and just go crazy
10:14on the marketing
10:15and then have issues okay i'm gonna tell you where i am um you know sarah sarah's reaction was really
10:24did influence me a lot because i did my nails quite badly i don't understand the problem as
10:30well as i'm sure sarah um does from what she said but i don't think that's enough for me
10:37unfortunately in this case i don't think that's enough for me to part with my money
10:41so for that reason i'm going to say that i'm out but i wish you the very best thank you
10:45so much
10:48gina i'll tell you where i'm at i think it's a great product
10:52i think there's huge application i think it is really unique and i totally get it
10:57i think once the market understands what this is this is going to be truly disruptive
11:02i think a really great way to get some cash generated quickly and some free marketing would
11:11be to hit tv shopping with this in a really big way and if you hit tv shopping with this
11:15which could
11:16happen imminently you don't need to do that extra half a million of fundraise you could fund generating
11:21that extra half a million in the next couple of months so on that basis because that is something
11:27that i can facilitate overnight i would propose offering you half of the money so 50 000 pounds
11:34for four percent of the business thank you sarah
11:40i might as well tell you tell you where i am um this is interesting for me because
11:45um i'm making you an offer on the pure basis of fomo
11:52um and i'm always straight and honest so i have no idea why i'm doing this
11:58only on the base of the fact that sarah is so in it and really loved it so much
12:05and i trust her instincts um
12:08so i'm going to make you exactly the same offer that sarah did which is 50 000 pounds for four
12:14percent
12:16thank you
12:19gina so there's lots of positive points which is the product you the background the question mark
12:27is control of spend yeah because if that gets out of out of hand you'll make no money
12:34definitely definitely in retail and i think that's where i can help so um
12:43i'm going to make you an offer so i'm going to offer you half the money
12:50at the same four percent give you a food report thank you so much
12:56i'm going to tell you where i am i feel like first of all you're really good um all you've
13:03got
13:03i know this will sound ridiculous all you've got to do is get the messaging right yeah just
13:08people need to know about it that is it because everything else is right so um yeah i'm going to
13:14make you an offer uh and i too am going to offer you 50 000 pounds for four percent of
13:20the business
13:21thank you what would you like to go to the wall yes thank you so much thank you
13:28a flurry of four identical offers for gina
13:33this bit is nail biting that was a good one peter jones tuka suleiman deborah meaden and sarah
13:42davies have each offered half the money in return for four percent of the business honestly sarah is your
13:49your nails are the only reason i bought them but any joint deal would see the former investment
13:54banker give away twice the equity she's offering i think she's going to come back and absolutely
14:02negotiate like a savage
14:06thank you all for your offers um sarah and deborah would you be willing to share
14:19absolutely absolutely i think you need a guy on this journey you need somebody that doesn't know
14:25about this business that will give you the proper constructive criticism
14:30can we confirm what are you asking them to share so 50 um each so what we've offered yes
14:38but would you be willing to go down to three percent each i don't think that there is a need
14:46for us to
14:47drop and my concern is i would have four percent today yeah i've no doubt you are going to need
14:52to
14:52fundraise so if i'm lucky i'm going to be only two percent or one percent at the exit value of
14:58the
14:58business i thought you said you want to fundraise no not this not this round i'm talking down the line
15:03you know you know it when we're doing 25 million we're going to need to fundraise what i want to
15:08say is i'll just give you all the money for eight percent but i know that you need a lot
15:11of help
15:12yeah so deborah and i would be willing to share on the basis that we offered at eight percent between
15:18us a four percent each have we got a deal let's do it success for gina well done so much
15:30securing a
15:31deal with a fearsome duo of dragons i'll give you a manicure tonight thank you everyone
15:39she departs the den with a six-figure investment to help extend her nail business to whole new levels
15:47it's really surreal to think that glace will now have two of the most prominent female investors
15:55in the uk that just blows my mind and i just feel really really lucky we nailed that deborah oh
16:02wow
16:15here we are my name is stephen i come from leitrim which is a small county in the northwest of
16:22ireland
16:23oh my goodness and i am bringing something into the dragons today that solves problems for many young
16:33readers series of books yeah to help demonstrate the product stephen has brought along one of his
16:40customers nine-year-old laurel what's 50 plus 60 i don't know what's 50 plus 60 what do you think
16:46it
16:46is 110 well done he's hoping she can bolster the moral support that his own offspring have afforded him
16:53my three-year-old is delighted that i'm going to see dragons my seven-year-old thinks that i am
17:01the
17:01best in the world my 12-year-old boy probably doesn't even know that i'm coming even though i've told
17:07him
17:07a million times and then my almost 14 year old daughter is probably mortified and that sums up my family
17:21hello dragons my name is stephen keen i am founder and director of audio mag media a children's
17:30magazine publishing company in the northwest of ireland today i come seeking 75 000 pounds in
17:37exchange for 10 of our company audio mag media specializes in accessible and inclusive content
17:44it's for all children but we place the needs of marginalized readers at the very center of all
17:50we do i'm talking about children with learning difficulties like dyslexia and with print disabilities
17:57visual impairment or blindness we said that if we could combine the needs of the dyslexic reader
18:02with the needs of a visually impaired or blind reader that we could welcome children of all levels
18:08and abilities and additional needs when it comes to reading in february 2020 we met with the dyslexia
18:14association of ireland and with the national council for the blind of ireland and we shared our vision
18:19of creating an accessible magazine for children and they offered a huge amount of advice support help
18:26but perhaps most important of all they gave us access to the young members so that we could inform
18:31our production our creation through empirical knowledge and feedback so the fact factory that you're seeing
18:37here today is a 12-part magazine series and it offers readers of all abilities the choice to read read
18:45along or to listen to the magazine i'm going to hand over to laurel she's going to just tell you
18:51a little
19:03the pen on how to use it we're going to press this button and wait till it turns green and
19:11and then we're going to scan it over the sticker
19:13look number five the palace has four floors with over 1100 rooms and 4.8 kilometers of passageways
19:23i really like this magazine because it's the first magazine that i've been able to access and i can read
19:30along with a friend laurel you had your finger on the book is there a reason you were doing that
19:38yes um it's because there's a sticker kind of like raised up a tiny bit from the page
19:44and it helps me locate the rating to scan it over it i listen to the audio and then search
19:51for the next
19:52sticker oh wonderful thank you thank you very much thank you so much laurel great demonstration
19:57bye good luck you will survive this so dragons underneath your chairs you're going to find
20:05a fact factory reading kit looks a little bit like a pizza box but it's a takeaway for the
20:10mind rather than the the belly an audio magazine with a talking pen to make reading more accessible
20:18and inclusive for children is the proposition from stephen keen so you just tap the audio icons and
20:24then listen to the content fact factory the most fun and interactive magazine in the universe
20:33stephen's asking for 75 000 pounds in exchange for 10 of his company
20:38any sticker has an audio file behind it it works really well
20:46sarah davies is first to find out if the audio magazine could be a sound investment
20:55so steve yes steve or steven it's actually stevie but stevie yeah well then we'll do stevie
21:02thank you wow well that was an impressive pitch and i certainly understand the need for the product
21:08and how you're fitting a niche in the market so who is your target market for this is it the
21:14parents
21:14or is it schools yes good question the parents are the last people we want to go to and that
21:21might
21:21sound very strange but we created a free to read pledge so even though we know that there are parents
21:27out there that have money to spend on this kind of kit we really feel that to reach the children
21:32most in
21:33need if we can convince libraries and schools to take our kits on board we know that that creates
21:38these corridors of accessibility to families that may not be in a position to buy a kit
21:44stevie hi what's the price points okay so the 12 part kit that comes in the box with pen and
21:52charger
21:52it costs 195 pounds wow okay so you're expecting if i'm in a school i will buy a kit it
22:02will turn up
22:02with 12 magazines and then i can use those across the school yes but what we love about it is
22:08you
22:08could buy one kit and three pens so that it's multi-user and when i lose a pen how much
22:12is that
22:12going to cost me to replace 45 pounds 45 pounds goodness me i'm going to keep my eye on those
22:17pens
22:17yeah okay um this feels very personal for you what got you into it because that you care about this
22:26so what what got you into it well i'm a teacher by trade and i have four children at home
22:33and they're
22:34all avid readers and sometimes you worry about the things that you could have done better as a parent
22:39but one thing we seem to have done right is instill a love of reading and that is hugely powerful
22:45not
22:45just for me as a person but for children there's there's a quote in from a report and it says
22:51the
22:51single biggest factor to determine a child's future success is reading for pleasure like isn't that
22:58amazing that reading for pleasure can determine a child's success over economical status education of
23:06their parents so we've developed a magazine series for everybody stevie so have you actually made any
23:13money doing this yet yes so the first issue was released in october 2022 and to date we have
23:20sold 100 000 euros worth of kits in ireland which equates to around 86 000 pounds so the 100 000
23:26euros
23:27of sales you've made to date yes have been made to educational establishments schools and public libraries
23:32we also have a licensing deal signed with gridmark and international and i'll explain them because they're
23:38actually our tech partner it's the japanese tech company and they own the pen and all the rights to
23:44the pen and we have a licensing deal in place with them so we provide the content they provide the
23:51pen
23:53steven um firstly i want to say congratulations coming up with a very clear product and
24:00boy this should get out there there's no doubt about it
24:04however i kind of sunk in my chair when you said that a japanese company owned
24:09this pen yes and this was the uniqueness i think of this product okay so talk to me about how
24:17do you
24:17how do you create a business out of something like this when you ultimately don't own the rights to the
24:24product apart from a licensing arrangement where ultimately licensing is great you've got to come
24:29with the invention first and you haven't yes well i i guess we are yeah and i'm not hiding behind
24:37that
24:37but i think we have a very sound partnership in place sorry can i just check is an exclusive license
24:42it isn't an exclusive license so we're free yeah that's what i'm sitting here but i think that worked
24:48in our favor peter in that we're free to so there are similar pens out there that can read that
24:53technology
24:54so we're free to partner with anybody but we have a five-year contract with gridmark and we're very
24:58happy with gridmark they've been hugely supportive of what we're doing stevie if one of those big
25:06publishers out there decides they want to start putting stickers into their books that read the
25:10books for the pupil is there anything in your contract that stops them doing that no there'll be
25:16no i mean the market is free to entry for all publishers but gridmark agree that they will not take
25:22on a magazine series like ours so if i went to gridmark with a big amount of money five million
25:29quid and i said i want to do a magazine series in the uk they wouldn't do it they have
25:36told me that
25:36they wouldn't do it but you don't have that in writing uh there's no contract there's no legal
25:41requirement for them to turn me down i am not sure if it is in writing but i would be
25:49slightly
25:50confident i would be confident that i could get in writing because it has been verbally agreed but
25:54i do appreciate what you're asking there steven so you have not got an exclusive in the uk on
26:00got exclusive at all stevie stevie i think look i i genuinely think this is just admirable
26:09but you have a really tough job of trying to now find a way to make this a business what
26:14ring fences your
26:15idea is the fact that you've got some form of protection and that protection comes with some
26:21form of exclusivity and you haven't got that and i think that's your issue i think you need to go
26:27back
26:27but negotiate harder because this is not defensible and if it's not defensible you're going to struggle
26:34to get any investment from anybody peter it's the first phone call i'm going to make it makes perfect
26:40sense yeah so i'm going to wish you the best of luck but sadly i'm out thank you peter so
26:46i i i also
26:48worry for you stevie i'm afraid that it makes it very difficult as an investor love what you do
26:57love you and your passion for this but i i'm afraid i can't find a way of investing so i'm
27:04out
27:04thank you debra look i love your passion stevie but when i look at this the main thing is the
27:14pen
27:15technology and eventually what will happen is there'll be a 4.99 or 9.99 version of that pen which
27:23which will then be used in other areas so unfortunately what you've pitched today
27:30is not investable okay and for that reason i'm out
27:38stevie if you'd come here today and you told me that you'd built technology
27:41that allowed all the existing books that have been written for children to become accessible
27:46to people that struggle with reading um that would have that would have blown my mind and been an
27:51incredibly scalable proposition i find it a little bit less scalable for you to be producing the
27:58the literature yourself um and then using someone else's technology for that your mission is not
28:03just admirable it's incredibly important but i'm not convinced that you have an investable business
28:10because i question whether it's going to be able to scale in the near future i implore you to carry
28:17on doing what you're doing but i'm going to say that i'm out these are the nicest no's i've ever
28:22had
28:22but i really appreciate it thank you steven and i do appreciate that stevie you are so lovely you
28:29you really are and and you're so passionate about how you are going to change the world
28:34no no you really are the difficulty for us sitting here is we get offered hundreds of investments
28:41of course and for us it's looking at where is it going to be best for us to place our
28:46money and time
28:47investment to give the greatest return and i i just don't feel like the most important thing here is
28:54for you to make a big profitable return the most important thing here is for you to reach the most
28:59children and and it's going to be at loggerheads with any investor you ever bring in so i'm going
29:05to say as an investment for me today i'm out but good luck with the business thanks very much sarah
29:11i
29:11appreciate that thank you stevie thanks very much thank you good luck really appreciate it
29:17that's it for steven who departs the den without the investment he was looking for mixed emotions we
29:26didn't get the offer that we had asked for it wasn't for them but i think we'll come away the
29:33better company from this without a doubt when the passion for the vision is greater than the passion
29:39for business and making money it's really humbling sometimes the future is bright definitely and i look
29:47forward to proving them wrong there we go how's my hair look your hair looks fine
30:11my name is louise toll and i'm from shropshire and i'm ian toll and we are a husband and wife
30:18team
30:19and we watch dogs dislocate their owner's arms to try our products out do you know your parts dogs
30:26don't forget what you're going to say phoebe oh oh gosh yeah oh it's a dog treat
30:35i thought it was breakfast cereal for dogs at first does it looks like cocoa pops doesn't it
30:40yeah it does doesn't it it's like there's little variety facts
30:47i'm really excited to be part of the show and in the den but also slightly nervous and
30:53intimidated i think i think we're both nervous but i feel honestly i'm just incredibly proud of the
30:58journey that louise and i've been on and how well she's done so the future is endless
31:07that's not oldie dogs are so much better than humans
31:16hello dragons my name is louise toll and i'm ian toll and we are the owners of furboose today we're
31:23seeking 50 000 pounds of investment for a 10 equity stake in our company furboose is a functional
31:29smoothie hydration drink for dogs each drink contains a meat fruit and vegetable blended with
31:36added oils and vitamins so not only does the product hydrate the dog it also adds functionality
31:42supporting the dog's well-being helping with skin and coat digestion immunity anxiety and the metabolism
31:49the drinks come in three tasty flavors we have beef broccoli and blueberry pork sweet potato and apple
31:55chicken butternut squash and cranberry and this is a product it's not something copied from something
32:01with a twist of lemon this was actually created for a need that's right and that need came when phoebe
32:06our now 10 year old beagle fell ill at 18 months of age i worked alongside the vet and we
32:12changed her diet
32:13but it was in the summer months when i needed phoebe to drink and she wasn't drinking so i called
32:18upon my technical background
32:19as a food science and technologist to create protein shakes for her which she found highly palatable
32:25it helped them flush the issue away and we put that down to her being properly hydrated
32:30to date we've produced 120 000 units feeding thousands of dogs based in the uk
32:37i'll demonstrate the product and hopefully a few bit of knowledge of this
32:43a range of flavored drinks for dogs is the offering from louise and ian tolle so the product's ready
32:50to drink and we go i've done the job quieting them down in return for an investment of 50 000
32:58pounds
33:00a 10 percent steak is on offer was that good phoebe oh yeah okay well i don't think we've got
33:07any
33:07questions for your dogs thank you alison yes thank you phoebe and frankie exit the den leaving peter jones
33:17thirsty to get down to business
33:21it's nice when a almost like the pitch and the demonstration it you get it in one don't you
33:27and clearly phoebe and a friend love the product so if i just look back how long has this been
33:32going
33:33for how long have you had the product louise came up with the idea years ago when phoebe was ill
33:37as we
33:37talked about um i then for i spent the last eight years working internationally based in the
33:42middle east and louise came out and put that on hold really for a year or so when we first
33:46went to
33:46kuwait um but never stopped you thinking and then uh in 2020 we decided to build the factory
33:53we put the factory together in the end of 2020 and launched in 2021 so 21 was our first
33:59year of selling anything so what are you doing in the middle east i've worked in the food industry
34:04for 36 years i've run manufacturing plants i've run restaurants so i've been a ceo for the last 16
34:10years for who for who i was the group president for al shaya so i ran brands like the cheesecake
34:16factory shake shack pf changs texas road hastina delude 29 brands in 12 countries
34:22what i'm really keen to get into is the numbers so 2021 what were the sales in 2020 the sales
34:29were
34:29a very modest uh i think 17 500 with a gross profit of 9 500. in 2022 we actually our
34:36sales jumped to
34:3677 000 just over 77 k and but this is the year if we made a mistake we didn't make
34:42a mistake i was
34:42this is the i was still locked into the middle east and louise had a baby in the in the
34:47year of 2021 so
34:48it's quite distracting um but during that year just so you know even though she had a baby she
34:53still managed to do i think it was five or six shows and i can tell it beautiful you're a
34:58husband
34:58you're so proud that's i'm super proud but i would just want the numbers sure so 2022 2022 77k revenue
35:05correct gp gp was 53 percent we lost 100 000. 100k yeah okay you mentioned that you made some
35:16mistakes i find that really compelling because you know a lot of startups don't get to survive
35:19their mistakes that they make um what was the mistake you made the mistake we made was we
35:24actually overspent our marketing we we actually went with some well-known names and we spent 50
35:28100 000 pounds on some campaigns and got very little return just out of interest what what is the key
35:34lesson you took from that i think the one thing and you you really honed in on this i'll let
35:39you add
35:39to this is we changed our model now we have three part-time uh consultants who work for us but
35:45we get
35:45great value for money out of them and we've really learned from the mistakes we made the key key
35:50lesson there for me as i've heard it is when you're a young company you have to be as close
35:54as possible
35:55to the absolutely you have to have it in your walls to understand yeah where every pound being spent is
36:00returning for you absolutely positively or negatively can i test something with you you can are you happy
36:07with the brand yes i'm happy with the brand um it's quite catchy so um we do have a lot
36:13of interest
36:14and people like it because it stands out on shelf so yeah you don't like the brand um i think
36:21it it
36:22looks limiting so i think this has got a lot of benefits to it and none of which it looks
36:28like fur
36:29boost which looks like something that's going to improve your dog's coat i just think it undersells
36:35because you're a big solution we had different names for it when we started this but we actually spent
36:40i spent 30 grand on on focus groups to actually figure out the bad thing how much rightly or
36:45wrongly about heart palpitations when you said you spent 30k on i know nearly but it leads me to
36:52another question um are you capable of doing some things on a shoestring sorry yeah i think so i'm not
37:02sorry in it because he didn't understand the question sorry never needed to yes but we've
37:09yeah but it's interesting because not everything in a business you know you've got to know what
37:14it's important to spend your money on you've also got to know what it's not in it's important to not
37:19spend your money on you know yeah that's why i'm asking you the question the mistakes we we we've
37:24openly said we spent too much money on marketing with big companies in 2021 we're not doing that now yeah
37:29and you know we both come from a very corporate background so we did things that we were taught
37:33to do we're not doing those anymore we're figuring out how do we do it so it makes money
37:39ian and louise you probably know i'm in the pet business um interesting um what does it sell for
37:47four pounds four pounds i mean i i i look at this and i say is it something which somebody
37:56would pay
37:57four pounds um and you've got a lot of transport with the water could this be produced in powder
38:05format where you just add water uh and mix it it could be done that way um but we believe
38:12that when
38:12you're um adding further costs and further processing um and you're taking out some of the um ingredients
38:19into powder form you're actually losing that palatability as well but i think it's easier for
38:25somebody that you know you open a tin or whatever you put a scoop in put the water in yeah
38:29this is
38:30this is what's tearing me at four pounds is that value for the mainstream dog owner the beauty of
38:39having sorry just to interrupt the beauty of having the carton in its liquid form is it's ready to drink
38:45so it is great for grab and go which is used for a lot and when people travel it's expensive
38:51it is but
38:52you can use as little or as much as you want you don't have to use the whole carton yeah
38:56but you're
38:56going to use it in seven days so not necessarily you can still freeze it as well so it's freezable
39:01and we do say to people if you're not going to use it in seven days don't waste it freeze
39:05it
39:06i view this business and i look at it as a as a risk equation i completely believe in the
39:12product
39:12but when i look at that risk equation on one side i have an unprofitable business
39:16and on the other side to balance out that equation i would then look for a tremendous potential upside
39:22that tremendous potential upside would be
39:26an eight nine figure business and i can't quite see that and because i can't see that
39:33and the risk equation isn't balanced i'm going to say that i'm out but i wish you the best
39:36okay thank you okay um i completely agree so i think you'll you'll make money out of it but i
39:44don't see i guess it's what you're saying really steven i don't see the super you know i don't see
39:49this taking over the world so wish you all the best um but i won't be investing i'm out thank
39:55you
39:56look i think it's been really good to listen to to two people's journey that clearly you're really
40:02professional and there's no doubt and very investable the reason why i'm not going to
40:08invest though is that i think that this is going to be a very tough business to scale
40:12so i'm going to say sadly that i'm out okay thank you so i'll tell you what louise now i'll
40:17tell you
40:18where i am i think you're pioneering into a completely different field but my understanding
40:24and knowledge of this is so limited i would worry that i would be more of a hindrance than a
40:31help on this
40:31journey with you so i'm going to say on this occasion i won't be investing today and i'm out
40:37ian and louise have you ever had one of the big four or one of the big six supermarkets approach
40:45you
40:45yes yeah which one waitrose and how far have you gone with them at the moment we've sent we've sent
40:51samples yeah um and the buyer did email to say that they were managing to manage our expectation
40:57she's tasked with reducing her supplier base by 15 percent of course it doesn't it does not mean
41:03that they've got the right suppliers i mean i i'm very close to one major retailer got 800 stores
41:10who could transform this overnight if they like them
41:14i'm torn um i'll tell you what um i'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt
41:28so i i'm gonna make you an offer and what what i'm offering here is really support one but contacts
41:39were the big supermarkets if they like it they just buy it and that will transform the business
41:47however it comes at a price so i'll give you the whole 50 000 but i want 35 percent if
41:56i get my
41:57money back within 12 months i drop down to 25 percent
42:04do you want to speak to the wall yeah
42:09an offer from retail royalty to casuleman albeit at three times the equity that was originally on the table
42:18would you walk away i don't know what you want to do but will ian and louise risk the opportunity
42:25by bargaining for better terms
42:29they just wanted to cancel that to say
42:32if you would take 30 for the 50 000 if we give you your 50 000 back within 12 months
42:37drop that to 20
42:38percent we'd be happy to accept that
42:49okay thank you very much
42:53louise and ian seal the deal thank you well i'm going to use your brains and your women's work
42:59thank you very much that's fantastic thank you well done congratulations
43:03congratulations the entrepreneurs leave the den with 50 000 pounds and the backing of a dragon
43:10with retail expertise to help grow their business
43:16my legs gone dead
43:19tuka um i did think he was going to back out so i was just like no we haven't got
43:25a dragon and then
43:26when he offered but i'm really pleased we've got a dragon i feel drained
43:31that's the pub one more to the air that's good that i think i think they got a good deal
43:38i think
43:38you've got a good deal yeah win-win woof woof
43:56i'm a beer i'm 33 years old i'm originally from canada i've been living in the uk for the last
44:01seven years i saw a gap in the market and i filled it with something comfortable
44:07i always say my wife is my muse she is the person that is most obsessed with her comfort
44:14and if my wife loves it i think the dragons are going to love it as well
44:21well they look comfy me too is it the blankets or is it the beanie it might be both
44:28they're weighted blankets it's got the weight on it six kg
44:32what's the point of putting weight on top when you're sleeping it calms you
44:51hi dragons i'm a beer and i'm the founder of remy the go-to brand for ultimate relaxation
44:57we're on a mission to bring rest to a hectic and stress-filled world like millions of others i was
45:04overworked in a corporate job and a victim of the hustle culture four years ago i chose to leave that
45:09corporate world took a leap of faith to launch a brand that embraces rest and relaxation i'm here today
45:16seeking 80 000 pounds for five percent of my business to solve this rest problem to do this
45:22i've reinvented the bean bag and created the pod with its high quality materials and ergonomic design
45:28the pod molds around your body i've designed it with modern day living in mind for it to be
45:33the most comfortable piece of furniture you'll ever sit on especially after a long day's work
45:39honestly it feels like you're floating on a cloud but that's not all what really sets us apart is a
45:44buying journey we've created online this allows a customer to put their own personal touch on what
45:49will soon be their favorite seat on the house and to elevate the entire relaxation experience they can
45:55get accessories an accessory like a footrest a neck pillow or one of our famous weighted blankets
46:01thank you so much for your time and this opportunity i'd love to demo the product before inviting
46:06someone to come up you're gonna demo it first i'll demo it first you can sit on it you can
46:12sit up
46:12right you can recline back or you can lay completely flat on it abir i want to show peter the
46:18weighted
46:19blankets he's never experienced it before so if you just put yourself down there a business with comfort
46:25at its heart oh wow furnished by beanbag style pods and weighted blankets is the proposition from abir iqbal
46:33i can also put the weighted blanket on you peter yeah i'll tuck him in have a seat to go
46:38whoa
46:40abir is seeking 80 000 pounds good night steven
46:46in return for five percent of his business this might have been a fatal mistake to put your dragons
46:53to sleep before we start the pitches winky winky
46:58peter jones and stephen bartlett might be resting their eyes but the den is never a place where an
47:04entrepreneur can relax abir while these two dragons are sleeping i'm going to start with the questions
47:12what's inside the product yeah so it's uh expanded uh polystyrene beads poly polystyrene beads so eps beads
47:20polystyrene polystyrene is my accent so this is four years old this business how much did you invest in
47:27this business to start with yeah so i've put in 200 000 over the last four years yep right okay
47:34let's
47:35before we talk about numbers let's talk about costs so uh if you take the large one what does that
47:41cost you
47:42so it cost us uh 40 40 to 45 pounds for the final product landed right how much you set
47:50it for 139
47:51so i'm looking at this now and you've got no margin for retail because 139 retail 40 45 costs
48:01if you knock off the vat you got no margin for retail it's 60 to 65 percent so you're an
48:06online play
48:07correct right now we're 100 online so just just give us some numbers to to get a feel of the
48:15trend
48:15of online because i'm a bit worried that online sales are dipping i want to know if it's affecting
48:20you or not yeah so year one we launched halfway through the year we did 300 000 pounds in revenue
48:25and a net profit of 45k uh in year two we did 750 000 turnover yeah and net of 35
48:34000. in year three uh
48:36post coverage is a tough year for us we did 670 yeah turnover and a net loss of 110 000
48:43yeah and then
48:44last year we did 825k in revenue and we had a net loss of 25 000. see over lockdown and
48:54covid
48:55everybody went online and and there's this big phenomena that online marketing is so profitable
49:00i don't believe so i think the cost of acquiring a customer online is too great and in a way
49:06you've given yourself no margin for retail so you're stuck with online profitability might
49:14well be difficult going forward how are you going to how are you going to cope with that i can
49:18talk to
49:19you about uh our marketing online it costs us around 35 to 40 pounds to acquire a customer right now
49:25which leaves us with a 15 to 20 percent margin at the end of it so we're always for sale
49:30profitable
49:31on our bean bags when someone's buying it online a beer where when you say online what's the what's
49:37the split between some of the big marketplaces and your own website it's 98 our own website and like
49:43two percent amazon okay yeah my background i i worked at shopify for a few years my background is direct
49:50to consumer e-commerce that's where i've purely built the business and in the last year we really
49:55got product market fit we've sold over 5 000 bean bags um how about have you got product marketing fit
50:01it doesn't look like you have because you're you're losing money and online marketing can be
50:07difficult especially when you're a slight iteration in a saturated market and that's exactly what you
50:12are to be honest because i've had weighted blankets before i've had great ones i've had bean bags before
50:18your yours might be marginally better but that's not a significant enough point of difference to drive
50:23a huge upside on your digital marketing so what's the story online how do you sell this to people
50:31so our customers choose us for three main reasons the first is the versatility customers are looking
50:36for multi-functional furniture with the prevalence of working from home you know i showed it you can
50:41sit upright you can recline back or you can lay completely flat that's a bean bag yeah but the
50:46second thing is a moldability which another bean bag if you just sit on it you just kind of
50:50that's a bean bag bean bags mold and the the third part is the personalization option so we've
50:57developed on our website a way for someone to customize their bean bag personalization is like type of
51:02cover that they want so they can choose color cover uh material and then like building their
51:08experience around the pod abir hi um you mentioned that you were at shopify what did you do there yeah
51:17so i worked on shopify plus which was brands that do over a million a year yeah um so there
51:22was i was on
51:23the larger segment so people that were doing anyone that was on shopify plus had to do a million a
51:28year
51:28so i advised brands uh here in the uk on how to scale uh their business d2c and how to
51:35expand globally
51:35as well and any regrets leaving no not at all um i am was tired of the corporate grind to
51:45be honest
51:45um i found my calling this is an industry that i'm really passionate about the rest space in general
51:51and although we haven't had turned a profit last year we were profitable from year one and year two
51:58your sales then look like rolling you're averaging around 17k a week is that right uh that's correct
52:06yeah so how do we get this to 100 200 care week so there's three growth levers that i'd like
52:15to explore
52:16that we haven't yet um the first is licensing uh global expansion and then retail distribution
52:22so i just want to focus in on this global expansion piece for sure we're expanding into the u.s
52:27and
52:27that's a really big market for us there's a company in the u.s that's doing 20 million a year
52:32purely
52:33just selling a similar product to us without the customization option that we have the way that i'm
52:38looking is if we can replicate in the u.s what we've built online here in the uk we're just
52:44getting a
52:44bigger piece of the pie abeer i don't think you've fought this through 100 percent i think your
52:50business although the product might be great has flaws in the model because i think online you've
52:57proven that you can't make money you've made money once in you in four years or have you twice the
53:01first two years yeah first two years but you but you've been going for four years and you've done
53:05a ton of pride yeah think about it yeah four years of your valuable life has passed by
53:11if you spend a lot of money and you're not getting it back something's not right and i believe that
53:16you put more money in your same model you'll lose more money so for that reason i'm out
53:26abeer i have to say i do agree with tuga finally you know i've spent a decade optimizing marketing
53:37finals and i i look at this and go we're not going to be able to optimize this product
53:42no to to to get get it to a place where it will return on investment we won't be able
53:47to get there
53:48with this product because there's there's just nothing that i consider to be proprietary innovative
53:57compelling and i really wish someone like you had put their talent behind something that was more
54:02difficult to be honest less saturated but there's no way that i'm going to invest in this business today
54:06because i can't see which lever we're going to be able to pull together to send this to the place
54:10it needs to go to to give me a return i'm going to say that i'm out but i wish
54:14you the very best of you
54:18um i just want to explore the sustainability piece polystyrene nasty stuff i know is there
54:24a good polystyrene there isn't um it's really tough right now to find something sustainable okay so i'm
54:32never going to invest in a polystyrene filled bag i mean it's just not gonna happen to be honest um
54:40you
54:41i think could sell anything and i actually wish you were selling something else so if you have an
54:46epiphany one day and you wake up and you think you know what polystyrene balls are not a good idea
54:53i'm
54:53gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna do something that is really gonna have a really good impact please
54:59please find me i'll give you a call thank you deborah but this isn't it i'm afraid so i'm out
55:06thanks
55:08deborah abeer the skill of the individual in front of me isn't matching the the opportunity
55:17and to deborah's point find something else you can do and if all else fails you can always knock on
55:24my
55:24door with your experience and you'd be looking at a sick a six-figure job and uh and a lot
55:33of cash so
55:34but it's not an investment to what everybody else has said so i'm going to say that i'm out but
55:39it's
55:39good to meet you just me left yes um do you know i actually just fundamentally don't agree with a
55:50lot
55:50of what i've heard here what i see in front of me is someone who yes he's great at the
55:58e-commerce side
55:59of things but gave up a career in corporate because he was passionate about this area and if
56:05there's one thing i know about business is that you will succeed when you pursue the thing you're
56:10passionate about the issue i have with the business is purely the valuation 80 000 pounds for five percent
56:17isn't really floating my boat now i can change the valuation but i've got to weigh up am i passionate
56:25about the same thing that you're passionate about to want to go on that journey with you and it's not
56:30my passion but i wouldn't discourage you from pursuing what is your passion because you clearly
56:36love this business and i think you're doing a lot of the right stuff thanks so i would say keep
56:40doing
56:40it i don't want to invest today and i want to say i'm out well good luck thanks you guys
56:46good luck
56:46thank you thank you so much a beer must leave the den empty-handed but even if his business failed
56:56to win over the dragons the entrepreneur himself impressed it was nice for me to see that they
57:03believed in me as an individual and my skill set um disappointed i didn't get a deal out of it
57:09but i
57:10do believe that they missed out on an opportunity i wish you walked in and said i'll give you five
57:14percent of my next business we will we will rock you next time on dragon's den dragon's den is the
57:36platform to come in and pitch anything you've made some really good decisions so far i would have been
57:43shouting that coming out of the room how can you prove that it helps well i can just tell you
57:48that
57:49you know it helped me that's what worries me okay that's of no use to me whatsoever you are in
57:54a bit
57:54of a pickle financially at the moment oh eastenders yes yes
58:17you
58:20you
58:22you
58:26you
58:27you
58:29you