- hace 2 meses
Emprendió a los 18 años años importando teléfonos celulares, llegó a tener 16 empleados, pero se quebró. Entró a trabajar a una compañía de tecnología y él era el encargado de la categoría precisamente de teléfonos inteligentes en línea y allí fue cuando vio una oportunidad de oro: la gente buscaba comprar equipos, pero reacondicionados. Nadie en Colombia lo hacía, entonces empezó a investigar el mercado, dejó su trabajo y creó su negocio propio que le da “una segunda vida a dispositivos electrónicos en desuso, los reacondicionamos y los recomercializamos”.
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00:00Have you ever needed to buy a used phone?
00:04Or do you simply not want to buy a new one because you believe the one you have still works?
00:09That's what we're going to talk about today in Entrepreneurship and Leadership at El Espectador.
00:20Sebastian, what's up?
00:22Delighted, thank you very much for the invitation.
00:24Thank you for coming here to sit for a while and tell us your story
00:27and tell us the story of their entrepreneurial journey, of their business which for me is already a startup
00:31And now I know why I can confirm that it is indeed a startup. How are you?
00:37Great, everything's great.
00:39Well, we're at the Endeavor offices in Colombia
00:41And Sebastián Jiménez is one of those who just entered that community where there are people,
00:49There are the people from Rappi, there are the people from Platzi, this week we also interviewed the people from Movi
00:54And basically, they have very high growth potential.
00:59They offer quality employment and have enormous scalability potential.
01:04That's a bit like Sebastián, who is the entrepreneur, and that's a bit like the business he created.
01:10And the story we're going to tell today.
01:12So let's start there, Sebastián, how is the business born, how is the idea born
01:19And so let's tell stories, which is what we like to talk about here at El Espectador, and especially in that one.
01:23section.
01:24Okay, let's start from the beginning.
01:27Rappi didn't start as Rappi, I think the story began when I was 18 years old,
01:32I was just starting university, studying Business Administration,
01:35Yes, and I'd always been passionate about having the latest phone,
01:39But my parents were definitely not the most accommodating and would buy me just any old one.
01:44Like all dads, I'm the same.
01:46So, I was looking for ways to get the latest model and started looking into importing phones from Miami.
01:53like from Miami Free Zone and I set up an e-commerce business at that time called Seluventas,
01:57I remember it well.
01:58He was 19 years old.
01:5919 years old.
02:01I sold my car, traveled to China, and we set up a business called Seluventas.
02:05And I had the Seluventas e-commerce site, and the idea was to have new cell phones.
02:09which imported from the United States, Huawei at the time, Samsung and Apple
02:13And from China he brought additional gadgets related to technology, power banks and things like that.
02:20I had that e-commerce site from age 18 or 19 until I was 22 or 23.
02:26We reached almost a million dollars in sales.
02:27Oh, really?
02:28We sold on Mercado Libre and Groupon; we sold a lot of phones back then.
02:32And that's kind of where the story began.
02:36Well, it went very well for us, we reached 16 employees, I didn't know the technology ecosystem.
02:40It was a traditional, profitable company, and we were growing fast.
02:44but without any methodology, strategy, or business plan,
02:49as it was happening, and with a lot of ambition.
02:51Traditional commerce, as long as I sell more than it costs me to bring it here,
02:55The business is doing well.
02:56Literally. Something that later becomes clear is that in those cell phone stores
03:00then we opened one and ended up having four.
03:04We had cell phone sales and a cell phone clinic, which was basically repairing phones for my friends.
03:09that they would break during Holy Week or...
03:10Back then we had repair and sales of new cell phones.
03:13But around the fourth or fifth year, Avantel arrived very strong in the country.
03:18And there was a third one that had more than 50 or 60 Avantel locations.
03:24We supplied them. They saw that the prices were very good on Groupon.
03:27And we started supplying all the stores they had.
03:31It wasn't necessarily Avantel, it was a third party that held the franchises.
03:34And here came our first bankruptcy because they go bankrupt
03:39And we lost focus on the business we already had that was growing and profitable,
03:42which were the stores, Groupon and Mercado Libre.
03:46And we focused all the inventory and capital we had on selling to their stores.
03:50And when they break, you break.
03:52On the right.
03:52Clear.
03:5419 years. It was a franchise, let's say, very fast.
03:57He saw the business opportunity very quickly.
03:58So what happens next?
04:00He finished university, I imagine, but he already knew how to do business.
04:04And then, at what point does it focus on Refurbi?
04:07Well, after I finished university, I graduated with a degree in Business Administration.
04:12He could no longer afford to pay me the salary I had at Celuventas.
04:15I started looking for a job because I didn't want to keep dying from all the other businesses I had.
04:21But basically I had to focus on paying off the remaining debts.
04:26I applied to Linio.
04:27At that time, then, it was the second largest marketplace in the region after Mercado Libre.
04:32And they hired me as a category manager, or manager of the cell phone category, which I already knew how to do.
04:37And I took the category from selling roughly $300,000 a month to almost $1.5 million.
04:44dollars a month for two years.
04:46And there's an important point in the story, and that is...
04:50We were selling a lot of phones, but I started to see that in the search results, when I looked at the searches, many people started searching
04:56the refurbished category.
04:58Oh, really?
04:58And we started looking for sellers, but they weren't local sellers because there was no supply.
05:03Nobody was doing that.
05:04Nobody was doing this.
05:05Regarding importing and selling, that's all.
05:07Exactly. And there were people selling, companies selling refurbished goods from Hong Kong on Linio's cross-border marketplace or from
05:14Miami, but with a one-month or three-month warranty.
05:18And when it went well, it was great, but when it went wrong, imagine a guarantee with someone in Hong Kong, Linio, well
05:24already...
05:24No, and also remember that time wasn't like it is today, right? I mean, you could probably last longer.
05:28that month to arrive and when it finally arrived, then you no longer had a guarantee.
05:32No, the warranty started when it reached the person, but anyway, it often said something like, "as shipped."
05:38International, 45 days or 30 days.
05:42And that's when I said, there's a huge opportunity here. I started studying the market and saw what was happening in
05:47In the United States and in Europe, they are classified as refurbished.
05:49And this was literally a boom. It was 5%, 10% of the market with triple-digit growth year after year.
05:57And I said, look, this makes more sense in a country context like Colombia and Latin America, where purchasing power
06:04It is much lower.
06:05Yes, there's no money to buy a new phone every year.
06:08Exactly. And the bias towards used phones, I don't know, I'm not going to stigmatize San Andresito or the market.
06:15informal,
06:15But often people haven't fared well with issues like theft, smuggling, or lack of warranty.
06:21And I said, come on, this is like the perfect storm to solve.
06:24And that's when we decided to found Refurbi, and it was at the end of 2019.
06:29So, what is Refurbi today? What exactly does it do?
06:33If someone were told, "You have a group of 10-year-old children in front of you and you have to explain what Refurbi is," what would they say?
06:37Would I tell them?
06:38Look, we give a second life to disused electronic devices,
06:44We refurbish them and resell them. That's the easy way to describe it.
06:49And we sell it with a 14-month warranty, so that people can trust this type of device.
06:55which already has a bias here in Latin America and in Colombia.
06:58In Latin America and in Colombia. Well, there, let's say, you understood the market.
07:03Ultimately, I started out of opportunity and not out of necessity, which is key to point out.
07:07And this is usually the behavior of what happens with entrepreneurs who scale quickly,
07:11who have the opportunity to grow like entrepreneurs grow in The World.
07:16Okay, so what happens then? People start to identify them.
07:20I want you to talk to me about something called the word trust.
07:23How can one trust something like that?
07:26Because you named at least two areas in Bogotá,
07:30where one knows there is a market for second-hand phones, but one does not know their origin.
07:35One doesn't know if it's actually a stolen phone,
07:37or if it's a phone refurbished with parts from a stolen phone,
07:41or if it's a phone that was stolen in another country and brought here to the vision.
07:45A million things.
07:46Or even those discontinued in another country that are then brought here and approved,
07:50If that's even allowed.
07:52How is that?
07:53What's it like to work with trust and have people believe in you?
07:56Well, first he touched on a word that became the core of Repurbi.
08:01We don't sell refurbished technology, we sell trust
08:04and we sell the way people can,
08:09Affordability is the word; they can acquire what they dream of.
08:12I often dream of owning an iPhone or the best Samsung phone.
08:16The S Ultra or the Fold, but I can afford the entry-level one.
08:20Yes, yes, yes.
08:21Repurbi sells those two things: trust and aspiration.
08:23To address the trust issue, I believe our countries have done a very good job.
08:29in regulating networks and emails, which is like the ID card of each device.
08:35For you to import a device to Colombia and put it on the market,
08:40The device must be certified and must provide each of those serial numbers or emails.
08:47through the Mintic database.
08:49So, having that database shared locally and internationally by the GSMA,
08:54that regulates all telecommunications, we create the technology
08:58which allows retailers like Falabella, Grupo Éxito, and cell phones to be accepted as partial payment,
09:04That's how we acquired many devices.
09:06And if you take your phone right now to any Falabella store here in Bogotá,
09:11They will download the Repurbi app or scan the barcode to evaluate their device.
09:16The first thing is that you accept data processing.
09:19And the second and most important thing is to mark asterisk number 06 number,
09:24His email appears, he enters it into the Repurbi application,
09:27We validate local and international databases
09:30to verify that it is not only not stolen or blacklisted or has a negative report,
09:35but also that it is not being financed, because it is not only stolen,
09:39I might owe it to my mobile operator, to Peyo, and to some finance company.
09:45and I want to be receiving money for it.
09:49Then we connected with all those players
09:51before starting the repossession process and offering you money
09:54to renew your device and generate a circular economy.
09:58Okay, now tell us about numbers.
09:59So, indeed, it happened to me, for example, about three months ago,
10:04I was greeting someone there at the Caracol channel,
10:06Because you have to give to the spectator, he shook my hand and threw my phone away.
10:10Indeed, an S24 Ultra, which I was also working with,
10:15And I went to ask, the only screen in the Unilago market and so on
10:19It cost 1,600,000 pesos.
10:22And then I said, no, but this is incredible.
10:24And I'm going to ask about the new phone, the next generation one.
10:26which was the S26, and it cost 7 million pesos.
10:29Then I said, that hits anyone's wallet.
10:31And I had to make the decision to change brands, to go in another direction,
10:34And it's that simple. That happens to a lot of Colombians.
10:37How does the used car market work?
10:39Do you import the spare parts?
10:42How do they do that repair and how do they get it back to its best condition?
10:45A used phone to resell?
10:48Well, first of all, we do not participate in the informal market.
10:52In other words, we can't compete against something that,
10:54somewhere in the value chain,
10:57We are exalting or being part of that chain.
11:01We, one of them, have a direct alliance with most of the brands,
11:04We handle the trading for you.
11:07Also, here in Colombia we have a supplier of Samsung parts,
11:11for example, but also in Korea, Japan and China,
11:15We are supplied by manufacturers, screens, batteries, cameras.
11:20The manufacturers who don't supply them to us, which is only one.
11:23I'm not going to say the name, but...
11:25We're not going to advertise it.
11:27We're not going to advertise it.
11:28We manufacture batteries of the same capacity and quality,
11:32Refurbi brand.
11:34Oh, really?
11:34By former manufacturers of them, to guarantee quality,
11:37and we also refurbish.
11:39And a very good practice is that we also buy
11:42claims from cell phone insurance companies that,
11:44Since his broke and nobody repaired it because it was too expensive,
11:47or that you had insurance on your cell phone,
11:50They replaced it and the insurance company kept it.
11:53We bought those salvaged mobile devices
11:56And when the motherboard doesn't work, why can't we recover them?
12:00and refurbish them again and sell them as new,
12:03We use a process called Harvesting,
12:05which is basically cannibalism on cell phones.
12:08We used original parts from those devices.
12:10and we use them to refurbish with original parts
12:14other equipment and leave them in perfect condition.
12:16And at the end of that process,
12:18And this connects to our guarantee rate,
12:20We run them through software also developed by ourselves,
12:24where we tested more than 60 features
12:26and we create a quality track.
12:31Quality tests to verify that the equipment was properly repaired
12:35and it can go on the market and be resold with our guarantee.
12:39Sebastian, I covered technology and telecommunications for many years at the newspaper
12:42and I was at a plant in China,
12:45another in South Korea and one in Brazil,
12:47all of them cell phones.
12:48Well, obviously, at that time it was targeted technology,
12:53a robotic thing,
12:54But one thing particularly caught my attention
12:56And the fact is, at the plant in Brazil, there was a human.
12:58the one who ended up assembling certain pieces.
13:01So, the volume was handled by machines,
13:03But the guy had to add the finishing touch.
13:07Where do you guys do that?
13:09Is there a production plant?
13:12Do they do that with someone else?
13:14How many humans do that?
13:16How does that backscene work, which, obviously, people don't need to know?
13:20Well, let me tell you.
13:21We have the production plant for Spanish-speaking Latin America
13:27largest in the field of cell phone refurbishment.
13:29It is located here in Bogotá, in fact, in the industrial zone of Bogotá.
13:34between Cota and Funza, around 80, near Siberia.
13:37More than 50 people working exclusively on operations, we call it,
13:44which is reconditioning.
13:46In other words, it's a one-on-one job.
13:47Each device requires a specific job.
13:49Hopefully, we will have an automated plant within the next five years.
13:56That's the goal.
13:57And I believe that today, with artificial intelligence in hardware,
14:02It will be possible to create humanoids that can perform processes like this.
14:07But we are also very happy to provide employment and that they will always be part of the value chain
14:11from a company like Refurbi.
14:13Today, repair technicians are the ones who do the 100% reconditioning of Refurbi here in Colombia.
14:19Wow! Well, that seems like a...
14:21First, it's great news to know that they're doing it right here, on the outskirts of Bogotá.
14:28that it's people from the region working on it and, above all, working in technology.
14:32How long does it take them, knowing that he has a phone?
14:36knowing what they have to put on him, putting it on him and taking him back to the market?
14:41Well, you see, everyone would say it's very slow.
14:46But each technician, depending on the process that needs to be done to each device,
14:51But the processes...
14:51Each case is unique.
14:53Each case is unique.
14:54There are some generalities, such as the change of...
14:56Battery.
14:57Back cover, battery, screen, cameras, charging ports.
15:01Those are the most common ones.
15:02And a cell phone usually has one, two, or three of these.
15:06A senior technician in Refurbide should be making between 50 and 70 devices daily.
15:13It's a lot.
15:1450 a day?
15:15Yes, they can change a battery in 15 or 20 minutes, and a screen in another 15 minutes.
15:20And in the 7.2 hours of the new workday in Colombia,
15:26We achieved that.
15:27We are very efficient.
15:28We have also brought in machinery that assists the process, machinery that opens the screens,
15:33Screen polishing machinery, automatic screwdrivers,
15:38all to improve the process.
15:39Of course, we had to travel to China to see the experts do it.
15:43and bring new knowledge every year.
15:46And that's what we do.
15:48And now let's go to the sales channel.
15:49And how are they sold?
15:50Where do they sell them?
15:52Where do they appear?
15:52Where are you going to find those phones that you, let's say, bring back to life?
15:57Okay, so our main channel is refurbi.com.co.
16:01In other words, you are direct trade.
16:03We are B2C, direct commerce, but we also have channels through which we sell.
16:08So, roughly 50% of the sale is on our website.
16:11We also have physical stores.
16:13And this is very funny because when I created the company,
16:16I said, it's always going to be an e-commerce.
16:18Yeah.
16:19Or a slash marketplace, where we connect supply and demand.
16:22Or we can own the inventory and market it ourselves.
16:24Many of us who have created digital businesses believe that this is the only way it will work, but it turns out that it doesn't.
16:29But we somehow built or rebuilt the category in Colombia.
16:34And many of the questions in 2019 during the pandemic were, "Does it come broken?"
16:39What is a refurbished vehicle?
16:41Does it come with a box?
16:42Does it come with a cable?
16:44So, what does it come with?
16:45How's it coming?
16:45And the biggest challenge we have is educating Colombians on how to use these types of devices, which for us,
16:54And I genuinely believe this is a better decision than new because it saves money and has a longer warranty.
17:00It's environmentally conscious, so it has a lot of additional factors.
17:04And the other channels are falabela.com, éxito.com, olímpica.com, marketplaces, Mercado Libre, of course,
17:14These are digital channels where we integrate our inventory and also reach the end customer.
17:20Oh, well, I didn't know that.
17:21And well, you being here was a bit funny, but I would ask the question because I've never bought a phone.
17:26second-hand.
17:27So, they do come in the box, they come with what one usually, well, let's not talk about many who today
17:32They don't even come with a charger.
17:33But how do they come?
17:35Okay, we developed a very nice package so that the unboxing experience that comes with a new product is not lost.
17:41The unboxing.
17:42The unboxing—I didn't mean to say it in English—but unboxing a refurbished item doesn't have to be bad.
17:49In fact, we try to make it better than a new one, we always say that.
17:52And it is a 100% recycled and recyclable box that complies with all the regulations required in Colombia.
18:00in any country where we are marketing.
18:02You open your box and there's the documentation, warranty manual, the PIN to open the SIM card port,
18:11It comes with its cable, fast charging, the device, and well, that's how it comes.
18:16And in fact, the little plate where the cell phone is placed is made of recycled plastic.
18:23We also try to ensure that the entire brand experience revolves around the circular economy.
18:28Well, as Sebastian says, it does indeed sound better than new.
18:31Listen, Sebastian, talk to me about numbers, I mean, this is ultimately a business section of economics.
18:35of those that can obviously be revealed and those that can be told to us,
18:37Because, to begin with, knowing that it can reach the Endeavor network is because it has specific numbers that already
18:47He overcame it.
18:47Then tell us about the numbers that can be known about the business.
18:51Of course, many of these numbers are public,
18:53So Reformy is a company that will close this year having served more than 100,000 people.
19:00That is, more than 100,000 Colombians have purchased a certified refurbished device.
19:05We expect to close a deal in Colombia alone with $15 million.
19:09This is a little over 50 billion pesos.
19:13I went to live in Mexico and started surgery.
19:16In the first month, June, we sold a little over $50,000.
19:21And we believe this is just the beginning of a new category.
19:25I believe we won't be the only ones building this category
19:29And hopefully many more brands will start doing it right.
19:32Because in countries like Europe, in European countries, like Germany, like Sweden, like Italy,
19:40Since France is currently leading the race,
19:42There are two unicorns in this same category,
19:45Of the total number of cell phones sold in the country, 25% are already refurbished.
19:50Between 7 and 8 million phones are sold in Colombia each year.
19:54and in the formal market, no more than 1% of devices sold are refurbished.
19:59It might reach 2%.
20:00In other words, there's going to be a 23% increase.
20:02This represents a gigantic opportunity,
20:06that we are surely among the first to move in the category,
20:10But it's important that there be more, not competition, but more.
20:14as a cluster system creating the category,
20:17not only in telephony, but also in laptops, which we also do,
20:21But what about a television company, or a washing machine company?
20:25And when the entire ecosystem gets used to buying second-hand devices,
20:28Quality, with a guarantee, because it's the smartest option
20:31and I think more environmentally conscious.
20:33And above all, the new generations are getting used to it.
20:36I have a 12-year-old daughter who thinks about that a lot.
20:38Okay, so how do we give clothes a second life, for example?
20:42which is the second most polluting industry in the world after the oil industry and others.
20:45Then it seems to me that it makes perfect sense.
20:47Mexico said they are opening up the market in Mexico.
20:51What does that mean?
20:52They have already begun international expansion, however they sell to other countries.
20:56How is that?
20:57Okay, selling to multiple countries with specific cell phone regulations is very difficult.
21:02Exporting a cell phone in Colombia as a device.
21:06From Colombia as a device.
21:08It can only be done from the Free Trade Zone and if you entered the Free Trade Zone and left through the Free Trade Zone.
21:13In other words, the cell phone would no longer have been nationalized.
21:16Exactly.
21:16If it is already a nationalized team, it can only leave the country as electronic waste.
21:21So we can't sell like in Europe, since I have my plant in France.
21:24and I sell to the entire European Union.
21:26To the entire European Union.
21:26I wish it were that simple, but we've had so many problems with thefts coming from various countries.
21:32that countries began to close borders and create regulations on the import and export of cell phones.
21:38Therefore, we are generating an operation very similar to the one we have here.
21:43Not the same size to start with, but we're going to employ between 30 and 50 people in the next two years.
21:49to open the Mexican market and of course I went to lead that operation.
21:54In other words, Colombia today, the second largest market, Mexico, which is also gigantic.
22:00If things have gone this way for them in Colombia, and this is the opportunity in Colombia, then I can only imagine the opportunity that
22:04They saw it in Mexico.
22:05As I told you, here 7 or 8 million cell phones are sold, in Mexico they sell 25 to
22:1030 million new cell phones per year.
22:12Imagine what happens to all those used cell phones, sitting on nightstands, over the years.
22:17Clear.
22:17Or if they don't have the option of trading it in as part of the payment, that's exactly what we're building.
22:21Hey Sebastian, how about we talk about price differentials, to get a range?
22:25In other words, if someone buys a top-of-the-range phone, as the Spanish call a very well-known phone program
22:31cell phones,
22:32Well, in terms of technology, top-of-the-range models, in Colombia they can cost around 7 or 8 million pesos.
22:37That's the top of the line, the very best of the most premium brands.
22:40A cell phone, let's say, is probably not going to be the top of the range, because it's new.
22:45But a similar cell phone, let's say, refurbished from second-hand stock, as soon as it can be sold in Colombia, from the side of
22:52you.
22:52It's always at least 20% cheaper than the new one, in a traditional and original channel.
23:01And sometimes we reach up to 40, 50%.
23:04With the iPhone 13 or iPhone 14, which Claro sometimes still has batches of at iShop,
23:09Sometimes we go 40%, 50% below the price they're selling it for on the iShop or on
23:15Palabella, new.
23:17And the decision, well, there's no need to think about it.
23:20And in one that just came out, we called it, well, because of course we don't have the iPhone 17,
23:24T-1, T-2, T-3.
23:26Now that the iPhone 18 is coming out, we're starting to see a lot of iPhone 17 and 16 models from the techies who are...
23:33delivering to stores.
23:35Every year they miss it and we're starting to get iPhone 17s now when the iPhone 18 comes out.
23:40And that's how it works.
23:41Similarly, when the S26 came out, we started to capture S25s Ultras.
23:46I listen to it and that's exactly what the used car market is like.
23:50Identical, meaning that you go and buy the car one year, then lose money with the 30% depreciation
23:54%
23:54And then he hands it over to get another one, and well, the one who bought the car, let's say second-hand,
24:00But with low mileage, depreciation was earned, and that's the cycle.
24:04So, how has the consumer understood, in one way or another, the idea of embracing the circular economy?
24:13Is the Colombian consumer increasingly leaning towards that side?
24:16Did they have difficulty educating the consumer, or what happened there?
24:19Hopefully, the buyer's decision will stem from or be influenced by sustainability.
24:28of environmental awareness, but I think the narrative in Latin America is much more focused on price.
24:34Pocket.
24:35But I don't mean to say there aren't any; there are many, and I'm convinced that the new generation has that chip.
24:42And that's a competitive advantage for us because we moved first.
24:47And we will be top of mind for many who already believe in the brand,
24:52But it has definitely been a challenge to change the mindset that the purchase decision
24:57Whether it's towards, well, while it's cheaper and smarter, it also pollutes much less.
25:03Clear.
25:0392% in fact.
25:05Okay, it's time for the pitch, out-of-the-box questions trying to find out-of-the-box answers.
25:11So here we go with the pitch.
25:18Well Sebastian, if I could change one rule of business,
25:21of the traditional ones we have here in the country and now in Mexico,
25:25Where is it landing to open up the market, what would that be and why?
25:30Okay, I'll ask you an easy one for me because in my specific industry,
25:35I'll ask you a question in return: are used cars subject to VAT?
25:41As far as I know?
25:43No.
25:44Exactly, there is double taxation because the cell phone, the new car,
25:49When it was sold, he paid his taxes and VAT.
25:51Yes, yes, of course. And especially if it's imported, yes.
25:54So, the cell phones that we take back locally, which already had VAT paid on them when they were new,
25:59We have to invoice them again.
26:01So, when you sell them, do you have to charge VAT?
26:04Yes, in Colombia there is a system of taxation for those who are exempt and those who are not, depending on whether they exceed a certain threshold.
26:09which is 22 VTs, that's approximately 1,150,000 pesos.
26:13If I want to buy a phone for more than that amount, I have to pay VAT.
26:17Exactly, new and used.
26:19And used.
26:20Well, we are trying to approach the House and the Senate with a proposed law.
26:26Because many countries have already realized this and there is a VAT extension for this category
26:32in most European countries.
26:34And that not only boosts Refurbia, but the industry as a whole, it discourages illegality.
26:41So, it has a lot of incentives for the country, which is why I think that rule is poorly designed.
26:45Well, that's interesting.
26:47Well, they've probably been structured since someone first thought of repairing phones.
26:53and create a model like the one you are proposing.
26:56The problem is that regulation moves slower than business, I think.
27:00So, yeah, well, she's good.
27:02Well, the second one.
27:03Okay, we already talked about which one to change.
27:05Secondly, what was or what has been that mistake that you say was terrible, from a business perspective?
27:13But is he probably the one who has learned the most?
27:15I have a hard one.
27:17I'm not going to talk about the specific channel, but we decided to open a retail store.
27:23Selling our refurbished devices to chain stores
27:27and they marketed it to their end customers.
27:31While the top line generated a lot of sales and a lot of income,
27:37We burned 8 to 10% for each device sold because they kept the profit.
27:42Not only did they pay us from very far away, but they also postponed the payment of our invoices, which greatly impacted our cash flow.
27:47cash register,
27:48but it's a business with tight margins; it's technology, ultimately; it's hardware.
27:54but the retailer kept a large part of the margin.
27:57He demanded that I put a table and a salesman in each of his stores, and when we said,
28:02Listen, let's go into a large store and we'll go in two places to sell things, you lucky devils.
28:09We started to grow at a triple-digit rate, but in reality it wasn't a profitable or sustainable business over time.
28:14and we had to make the difficult decision to close the channel.
28:19Yes, of course, and also because retailers initially pay very high prices and the margins ultimately take over.
28:25Well, they say, we lend you my e-commerce, my channel, and I keep a significant portion of it.
28:31And I see, I've seen many businesses that say, no, the margin isn't enough, the payment is too far off,
28:37So I'm perfectly better off going alone than there.
28:41Nowhere, no.
28:43Well, third, if the use of the second life were truly institutionalized in a country like Colombia
28:54not only electronic devices, but many other things, as is already the case in the automotive industry,
29:01I already feel like it's working more and more on clothes.
29:05For example, would you be that leader who would say, well, come and see, let's do a cultural change campaign
29:13How can we help Colombians understand the power of the circular economy?
29:17But first, where do I sign?
29:21There is an association or guild that Europeans formed around the circular economy called EURREFAS.
29:30Yes, I've been trying to promote with a couple of competitors in the network as well, some Chilean and other companies
29:39Colombian women,
29:40It's just that it has been difficult to create an institution like this in Latin America.
29:46I don't know, GoTrendier is a very good example.
29:48It's not just for cell phones and technology; it's for anyone who can give a product a second life.
29:57and sell it in some certified or guaranteed form to the end customer.
30:02And why do I say guaranteed and certified?
30:04Because if we stay at that part of one month warranty, three months warranty,
30:11It will continue to generate distrust over time.
30:13So, if those who really do it well, and with methodology and real support,
30:22We are going to generate not only a group of companies and entrepreneurs who will move a category,
30:29but a cultural change.
30:31Yes, definitely, definitely.
30:32Well, if you could make a projection in the technology business,
30:38It's very difficult to talk about a long time, about five, ten years, that's very difficult.
30:41But if you could make a projection considering that there are increasingly more devices other than cell phones,
30:49Already one, artificial intelligence is developing glasses or lenses,
30:53since one already has the visualization of the information here on the lenses,
30:56And suddenly that might be more difficult to repair.
31:00About five years ago I was in a SES,
31:03which is one of the most important technology fairs in Las Vegas, in the United States,
31:07And they showed us a development from a Korean company, and it was a rollable cell phone.
31:12So, you'd have it like this and pull here and it would open and you'd see the whole little screen and then it would come back and
31:17It was coiled up.
31:17How do you envision your business if it moves this fast with things like this in five years?
31:25That's why I told him from the beginning that we are not a company that sells refurbished cell phones.
31:31I believe in this as a business that gives a second life.
31:37In fact, we have a really cool slogan that we're convinced of.
31:40that second chances aren't just for people.
31:44And this opens up a lot of categories,
31:47And then when you take this to 10,000 feet,
31:51We will adapt to the market.
31:53if people then stop using cell phones,
31:55but we have a small device that has a display,
31:58Well, let's refurbish those devices.
32:00or Ray-Ban cameras,
32:02or even in the B2B business model,
32:06Many servers are needed to power artificial intelligence.
32:11We definitely have it on the map, and not just in the medium term,
32:16start with other categories that can definitely be included in our issuance model.
32:21You reminded me of, of course, electric car batteries, for example,
32:24What's going to happen with that?
32:25Well, and with that we close this short segment,
32:29And that's how their mental health is.
32:31And why am I asking you this today?
32:33Because everyone is so happy talking about investment rounds,
32:36of sales, profit, margin, cash flow,
32:39that they grow and expand,
32:41But sometimes they forget that they are human.
32:44and that humans are the ones who make companies,
32:46So I want to ask you how your mental health is.
32:49First, thank you for asking.
32:52I think he's in one of his best moments in recent years.
32:56I went through a couple of very tough periods,
32:59where the business perhaps wasn't going in the best prospects,
33:03we were unable to conduct a survey,
33:06We were profitable very early on as well,
33:08back then we weren't dependent on raising money.
33:09Were you dependent on yourselves?
33:11From ourselves,
33:12But we couldn't figure out how to reach those growth points we needed.
33:16And then with retail specifically I suffered a lot,
33:20We lost a lot of money,
33:22and we made a very big bet on him,
33:23and we lost focus on our core business, which was e-commerce,
33:28and all those situations,
33:30They led me to have like a couple of crises,
33:32and say, come on, you have to stop,
33:34thinking of you,
33:36I definitely went to therapy,
33:40And while it's difficult to achieve that work-life balance,
33:47I have dedicated time to my family,
33:52to my partner,
33:54and entertainment,
33:55In other words, I focused on,
33:57I'm playing golf right now,
33:59I sometimes go to play football at night,
34:02and they are definitely spaces that recharge me,
34:04One might say, I'm going to go and get tired,
34:07I disconnect 100% from the business,
34:09And the next day I arrived recharged,
34:10And that allows me to continue.
34:12and thinking ahead to what we are building.
34:15Well, that's great!
34:16And with this question we return to the course of the interview,
34:19And it is, well,
34:20What does Endeavor mean to you?
34:22What does Endeavour mean?
34:23Today we are at Endeavor's offices in northern Bogotá,
34:25But what does it mean?
34:27What is it?
34:29For many people,
34:30I, who have been with them,
34:32They see it as a dream,
34:33For others, it's seen as a transition,
34:35For others, they're already there.
34:37So one usually, when one is already there,
34:39It's like she doesn't miss things that much.
34:40oh well,
34:42Tell us.
34:44I see it today
34:47as a very big responsibility
34:50that I have and that we have in Refurbia,
34:53not only to be up to the task,
34:55But we do need to create a global company,
34:57from Latin America,
34:58And how cool that she's Colombian!
35:02Endeavor 100% is a catalyst,
35:05with the knowledge of other entrepreneurs,
35:10They shorten those difficult decisions or those difficult stages, such as expanding into a new market,
35:16the opening of a new line of business such as credit, insurance,
35:21And there are definitely plenty of experts who have already been through this.
35:25They will tell us or at least show us which way to go.
35:28But when I tell him it's a very big responsibility,
35:33Although we have reached this point,
35:36It has been thanks to
35:39people
35:40who have been willing to help us,
35:44and I as a person
35:46I want to return
35:48to the network of entrepreneurs
35:50to my country,
35:53and I am not the one who carries the knowledge of Refurbia,
35:55and I have a great group of people
35:58that each of them are experts
36:00in each of its areas,
36:03who are also willing
36:05to give back and to teach others.
36:07Okay, cool, cool
36:08That message is really cool,
36:09always think of others,
36:11I didn't ask him two things,
36:13How old are you?
36:14And where did the name Refurbia come from, and what is it?
36:16It's funny,
36:17I am 32 years old,
36:20born in Bogotá,
36:23I grew up in the lime kiln,
36:24But then at 13 years old I came to Bogotá,
36:27and Refurbia,
36:29let's see,
36:30before,
36:30when I started with the idea of refurbished cars,
36:32I put celiacs on it,
36:33Because that was the name I had at my previous company.
36:35but I didn't connect with him.
36:38It was kind of common,
36:39Besides, right?
36:39Exact.
36:40If you go to the etymology of the word,
36:42Refurbished,
36:43in English,
36:44It is refurbished,
36:45But it made me laugh a lot.
36:47when I was going to do Benchmark
36:48and I started going to the store in 2019,
36:50Listen,
36:51You sell refurbished cell phones,
36:53remanufactured,
36:54Refurbis,
36:55they said,
36:55Oh,
36:56Did they say that?
36:56With the letter S,
36:58And I was saying,
36:58If they already have that,
36:59If they're already talking about that,
37:02Refurbis,
37:03I said,
37:04come on,
37:04Let's call it Refurbis,
37:06And the three little logos are three little circles
37:08who speak as if,
37:12we wanted to merge an infinity logo
37:14with one of the recycling ones,
37:15like a cycle that never ends,
37:19and also of the three things we do
37:21which is the retaking,
37:23the refurbishment
37:23and resale.
37:24Well,
37:25There he was,
37:25Sebastian was there.
37:28Really,
37:28Thank you so much for the space.
37:29Thank you,
37:30Sebastian Jimenez,
37:31the creator of Refurbis,
37:33He already told us the story,
37:35Remember that this interview
37:36It remains available on the entire digital platform.
37:38from www.elespectador.com,
37:40It has distribution on social media,
37:42It has a section in text.
37:43for our subscribers,
37:45who really like to read,
37:46and obviously it has an audio component
37:49for all of us who like it
37:50not just reading,
37:52but also listen
37:53when we go out exercising,
37:55or maybe when I'm playing golf.
37:56Of course.
37:57Sebastian,
37:57Thank you for your time.
37:58Thank you for your time.
37:59Well,
38:00that sells a lot,
38:01Give him a second lane,
38:02not just cell phones,
38:03thank you.
38:04Not just cell phones,
38:04Thank you so much,
38:05very good.
38:05Well,
38:05You know,
38:06See you next time,
38:07This is Entrepreneurship and Leadership
38:08from El Espectador,
38:09see you soon.
38:16Entrepreneurship and Leadership from El Espectador