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00:00What you feel is through the look of the people
00:03is different from what you feel when just talking to the people.
00:06The emotion that you get from engaging physically with people
00:09is different from the conversation that you can have.
00:19Welcome to Culture An .
00:22The podcast exploring the people, ideas and conversations
00:30ترجمة نانسي قنقرات التواصل الاجتماعي
00:5670% of the business under his leadership.
00:59A Sinhalese national and a polyglot,
01:02Amadou's impact extends far beyond corporate performance.
01:06He actively supports initiatives advancing girls' education,
01:10food security, health care, and community development.
01:14Amadou, welcome to Culture And by Inca Arabia.
01:17We are excited to explore how leaders can build cultures of unity,
01:21resilience, and high performance across borders.
01:24Thanks for having me, Andy.
01:25It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure.
01:28You know, when I went over your profile and your LinkedIn,
01:34I was very taken back by the impressive background
01:41that you've built yourself.
01:43You've led many major organizations across Europe,
01:47Middle East, Africa, Asia.
01:49How has working across such different cultures
01:53shaped your leadership style?
01:57Well, I think that, you know, first of all, thanks for having me.
02:00And, you know, when you're walking through all of these places,
02:05if you look at it from outside,
02:06it looks like, you know, something extraordinary.
02:09But I come from the village, you know,
02:11I come from a village in the south of Senegal.
02:14And one thing that has always kept alive in my brain
02:18is that I'm a man from the village.
02:21So that means that for me,
02:24regardless of the environment in which I work,
02:26I still come with my village people mentality.
02:30and I always leave it with my village people mentality.
02:33That means that you look at any space as a small space.
02:40You look at the space with the people living around,
02:46with the infrastructure that is around,
02:48with the mentality that is around.
02:50But you always look at it from your perspective of a village guy.
02:53So, you know, there's a lot of humility.
02:55And I think that if you come with humility,
02:58you will leave with humility
02:58and nothing will really change in you.
03:01Amazing.
03:02I mean, humility, humility, humility.
03:04And this is sometimes we overlook this.
03:08And, you know, we follow the titles
03:11versus the impact that you have on people and organization.
03:17Very inspiring, Amadou.
03:20If I was to ask now more on the technical
03:24or organizational side of the conversation,
03:26when you join a new organization as a group CEO,
03:31you know, someone who's leading the pact,
03:34how do you understand the culture of this new organization
03:37and what areas you will focus on changing
03:43versus, you know, units or departments
03:48where you want to preserve?
03:49How do you know this is something that I want to change
03:52and this is something I want to hold on to?
03:55I think the most important part to understand
03:58in any organization is the culture.
04:01And, you know, obviously,
04:02you cannot understand the culture of an organization
04:05if you just come in and have a few one-to-ones.
04:09So for me, you know, before joining RMX,
04:12I reached out to any previous CEO
04:14that has been running RMX
04:15to understand from them what were the opportunities
04:18or the challenges they faced,
04:19but also to understand the culture that they have instilled.
04:23So, you know, I met with the founder, Fadi, you know.
04:26So I met with Osman,
04:28who was the last one to run the organization.
04:30So I tried to converse with everybody.
04:33And then when I joined,
04:34the first thing I did was to go to Amman.
04:37You know, usually you go to New York
04:39or you go to some fantastic places.
04:41I went to Amman.
04:41and why did I go to Amman?
04:43Because I thought it is important to understand
04:46department by department, office by office,
04:49what is the true culture of the organization.
04:53And I think once you understand
04:55the true culture of the organization,
04:57then everything gets easier to take care of.
05:03and in the context of RMX,
05:05so, you know, you come from Syria,
05:07you have been in the U.S.,
05:08you are an American,
05:09but you actually come from this region.
05:12So I come from Senegal.
05:14You know, Senegal was representing Palestine
05:15since I was born at the U.N.
05:19So, and when I went to Amman,
05:22to Amman, what I sort of,
05:24what came up to my mind was that,
05:29Christianism was born around Jordan.
05:34Islam was born around Jordan.
05:37The monolithic beliefs were born around Jordan.
05:40And they went global from that region.
05:44RMX was born in Jordan.
05:47And for me, the culture that I want to inset
05:50is that, you know,
05:50if we come from a region where
05:53most of the beliefs of the global people
05:56has been expanded from,
05:58we can also create a logistics platform
06:00that comes from that place
06:01and should not be super complicated
06:02as if you are coming from
06:04the more complicated places,
06:06you know, in Western Europe or in America.
06:09And that core belief
06:10is the core belief that we want to keep
06:12in the mind of all of our people.
06:15Because, you know,
06:16when we are young Muslims,
06:18African,
06:20growing up in Europe
06:21or going to America
06:22or in Asia,
06:23you're faced with a lot of underestimation.
06:26So I think that we have
06:27a big opportunity to impress.
06:29And that is what we are trying to push.
06:31You mentioned something
06:32about the one-on-ones.
06:33You had met with the previous founders
06:35to, you know,
06:36understand the culture
06:37of the organization.
06:38How often do you do one-on-ones
06:40with your, you know,
06:42leadership team
06:43or skip-level team?
06:46So I meet my people.
06:48So every time I come to the office,
06:50you know,
06:50I take a big value
06:52in going,
06:53walking around
06:54and saying good morning
06:55to each and every individual
06:56that is in my office.
07:00Why?
07:00Because
07:02what you feel
07:03through the looks
07:05of the people
07:06is different
07:07from what you feel
07:08when just talking
07:08to the people.
07:11What you,
07:11the emotion that you get,
07:13you know,
07:14from engaging physically
07:15with people
07:15is different
07:16from the conversation
07:18that you can have.
07:20And for me,
07:21you know,
07:22the formal one-on-one,
07:23I have it every two weeks
07:24with my colleagues.
07:26But it is more
07:27for an update
07:28on where we are.
07:30But the permanent one-on-one
07:31is really engaging physically
07:32with all of our colleagues,
07:34be it the person
07:35that is in charge
07:36of security,
07:37be it in connection
07:39with the people
07:39who are at the reception,
07:41anybody that is working
07:42in the organization
07:43because,
07:44you know,
07:44if we are all
07:46simple units
07:47that are participating
07:48to the growth
07:49of an entire organization,
07:50then it is a better engagement
07:52than if you are
07:53complicated people
07:54running the business.
07:57You know,
07:57RMX operates
07:59in many communities,
08:02languages,
08:03markets,
08:04very diverse,
08:05obviously.
08:05And I think
08:06we've all used,
08:07one time
08:07or another used RMX.
08:09that diversity
08:10is probably
08:12a challenge.
08:14How do you,
08:15you know,
08:16maintain
08:16that diversity
08:18without losing
08:19the local
08:21sense
08:22of the language,
08:24the community,
08:24the market?
08:27Thank you.
08:27That's a very good question.
08:28You know,
08:29so the diversity
08:30is a challenge,
08:31but it is the biggest
08:32opportunity
08:32that we do have.
08:33So,
08:34for instance,
08:35if we are operating
08:36out of India,
08:37we have to be
08:37more Indian
08:38than any other
08:39company that is
08:39operating out of India.
08:41If you are operating
08:41out of China,
08:42in China,
08:43we have to be
08:44more Chinese
08:44than any other
08:45organization
08:45that is operating
08:46out of China.
08:47And we want
08:47to be the same
08:48in Egypt,
08:49in Morocco,
08:50in Ghana,
08:50Nigeria,
08:51in any other
08:51place that we
08:52are operating in.
08:53We have to have
08:54standardized processes,
08:56but we have to
08:57be very local.
08:58Why?
08:59Because if you
09:00cannot connect
09:01with the community,
09:03the local community,
09:05it will be
09:06very difficult
09:06for you to be
09:07understood or to
09:07understand what
09:08you're doing
09:08with the community,
09:09what you're
09:10building for the
09:10community.
09:11And if you
09:12can't understand
09:12that,
09:13then it will
09:13be difficult
09:14to engage
09:14with the
09:15customers who
09:15are coming
09:15from the
09:16community.
09:16It will be
09:17difficult to
09:17engage with
09:17the partners
09:18that are coming
09:18from the
09:19community.
09:20And I think
09:20that as a
09:21company that
09:22is coming
09:22from the
09:22global south,
09:24we should be
09:25better prepared
09:25than a Korean
09:27company,
09:27a German
09:28company,
09:29an American
09:29company,
09:30to understand
09:31the value
09:31of respecting
09:32the local
09:33culture,
09:34the local
09:34community,
09:35in the
09:35local uniqueness
09:37that you
09:38have to
09:38bring in
09:39every community
09:39so that
09:40everybody that
09:40is coming
09:41to you
09:41feels at
09:41home in
09:42any place
09:43you're
09:43working.
09:43So for
09:44us,
09:44we use
09:45the diversity
09:45as our
09:46opportunity.
09:47We use
09:48the diversity
09:49not as a
09:50challenge,
09:50we use it
09:50as the
09:52platform that
09:52allows our
09:53technology to
09:54connect with
09:54the community.
09:55And that's
09:56how we'll
09:56be further
09:57cultivating it
09:58across all
09:58the countries.
09:59The saying
10:00goes,
10:01think global,
10:02act local,
10:03in a way.
10:04So what I'm
10:06hearing is
10:07that relying
10:08on local
10:11resources,
10:13expertise,
10:15somehow
10:15fixes this
10:17issue.
10:18They know
10:19what's best
10:20in their
10:20own markets.
10:21Correct.
10:22So you'll
10:22always have
10:22community
10:23where you
10:23are challenged
10:24in terms
10:24of compliant
10:25processes,
10:26where you
10:26need to
10:27bring somebody
10:27that is
10:28independent,
10:29inside the
10:29organization,
10:30not to lead
10:31the organization,
10:31but to be
10:32part of the
10:32organization,
10:33to be able
10:34to show a
10:34mirror.
10:36And that is
10:36really just
10:37to bring
10:37your processes.
10:39So I think
10:40that you can
10:40have global
10:41processes,
10:42but you have
10:43to be very
10:43local in the
10:44culture.
10:45And that is
10:46the minimum
10:46respect that
10:47you have for
10:47any country
10:47that you're
10:48operating in.
10:48And I can
10:49imagine also
10:50compliance would
10:50also become
10:51another layer
10:52of challenges.
10:54Each market
10:55has its own
10:56compliance issues,
10:57right?
10:57Yeah.
10:58Every market
10:58has its own
10:58compliance issue,
10:59so we have
11:00compliance,
11:01the approach
11:01of compliance
11:02that is
11:02coming from
11:03the Western
11:03world,
11:04but we also
11:04have the
11:05approach
11:05of compliance
11:06that is
11:06coming from
11:06our world,
11:07you know,
11:08and,
11:08you know,
11:08halal
11:10and haram
11:12in the
11:12Islamic
11:13religion
11:14is longer,
11:15is there
11:15longer than
11:16compliance
11:16has been
11:17invented
11:17in the
11:18international
11:18schools
11:19where it
11:19is being
11:19taught.
11:20So,
11:21and what
11:21we try
11:21to do
11:21is really
11:22utilize
11:23what is
11:24actually
11:24coming out
11:25of our
11:25market,
11:25and it's
11:26really,
11:26you know,
11:27thousands of
11:28years in
11:28our civilization
11:31to use it
11:31as a vehicle
11:32to explain
11:33to the people
11:34do anything
11:35that is
11:36halal,
11:36be ethical,
11:37like the
11:38religion is
11:38actually teaching
11:39you,
11:39and it is
11:40both the
11:40Christian
11:40and the
11:42Islamic
11:42religion,
11:44be humble,
11:46that's what
11:46our religion
11:47is requesting
11:48from us,
11:49exercise
11:50so serve
11:51the community,
11:52that is
11:52what the
11:52religion is,
11:53so it is
11:53not something
11:54that we
11:54have to
11:54learn from
11:55any
11:55international
11:56business
11:56school,
11:57it's
11:57something we
11:57learn when
11:58we are
11:58babies,
11:58you know,
11:59growing up,
11:59so I
12:00think that
12:00that is
12:00what we're
12:00trying to
12:01vehiculate
12:01across all
12:02the markets.
12:04You know,
12:05your RMX
12:06is in the
12:06business of
12:07logistics,
12:07and this
12:09is an
12:10extremely
12:11challenging
12:11business,
12:12where,
12:13you know,
12:14the expectations
12:14that my
12:15delivery is in
12:16the next
12:1710-15
12:17minutes,
12:18and,
12:18you know,
12:18we live here
12:19in Dubai,
12:19we know
12:20that,
12:20you know,
12:21when we
12:21expect a
12:22package within
12:2315 minutes,
12:23half an hour,
12:24you have it.
12:25How do you
12:26execute on
12:27this without
12:29the employee
12:30burnout?
12:31I mean,
12:32is there
12:34pressure
12:35top-down
12:36so that you
12:37can deliver
12:38on the
12:39expectations
12:40of the
12:41consumer?
12:42So,
12:42you know,
12:43I mean,
12:43logistics has
12:44become more
12:44and more
12:45complicated in
12:46terms of
12:46what are
12:47the expectations,
12:47and,
12:48you know,
12:48you have a
12:48lot of
12:49e-commerce
12:49companies that
12:50are bringing
12:50even more
12:51pressure in
12:51terms of
12:51lead time
12:52to deliver,
12:54but there
12:54are always
12:55operational
12:57components that
12:58you can put in
12:58place to be
12:59able to be
12:59fast.
13:00So,
13:01for instance,
13:02you know,
13:02when you are
13:03receiving your
13:04goods that you
13:05order on some
13:06e-commerce platform
13:07within one hour
13:08or two hours,
13:10it's because there
13:10is a fulfillment
13:11center that is not
13:12far away from
13:12where you live,
13:13and people
13:14delivery champions,
13:16we call them in
13:16our organization,
13:17that are sort of
13:18assembled around
13:19that place that
13:20are in charge of
13:20a segment of the
13:22city where it
13:23needs to be
13:23delivered.
13:24So,
13:24it is not that,
13:26you know,
13:26everybody is going
13:27to one center and
13:28then rushing around
13:28the city.
13:29Everybody is coming
13:30from one distribution
13:31center.
13:32You know,
13:32we have more than
13:3338 offices,
13:33so people are coming
13:34from 38 different
13:35places to be able
13:36to deliver.
13:39We give particular
13:41care to the
13:41well-being of our
13:42people because,
13:45you know,
13:46if you don't take
13:47care of the
13:48people, not only
13:51will they not be
13:52productive, but
13:54you're giving
13:54yourself chances to
13:56not go to
13:57Algena because you
13:58have to respect
13:59the people.
14:00If you don't care
14:01about the physical
14:04wholeness of the
14:05people, if you
14:06don't care about
14:06care about the
14:07respect that the
14:08people deserve,
14:10then you're
14:10destroying your
14:11own organization
14:12because the
14:12quality of the
14:13deliveries will be
14:14different, the
14:14sparkle in the eyes
14:15of the colleagues
14:16that are delivering
14:17will be different
14:18and the customer
14:19will feel it.
14:20So, what we're
14:20trying to do,
14:21and maybe you
14:22have seen it,
14:22we celebrate all
14:23of our delivery
14:24champions across
14:24the entire
14:25network.
14:27What we're
14:28trying to do is
14:29really to build
14:29an environment
14:30where our people,
14:31they feel safe,
14:32they feel respected,
14:34they feel valued,
14:36and not overstressed
14:37because if they're
14:38overstressed, then
14:38the quality of the
14:39service will not be
14:40good.
14:42So, we are
14:43organized really in
14:44different zones for
14:45the e-commerce part,
14:46but our business
14:48goes way beyond
14:49the e-commerce part,
14:50so we have a lot
14:50of goods that are
14:51coming from China,
14:53coming from America
14:54and Asia,
14:55different size,
14:57because we do
14:58freight, we do
14:59supply chain, and
15:00we do international
15:02B2B express, and
15:04e-commerce.
15:05People always talk
15:06about the e-commerce
15:07part, but e-commerce
15:10is not the mass
15:10of the business
15:11that we do.
15:11We do a lot of
15:12other parts of the
15:13businesses that I
15:14mentioned.
15:15You know, you
15:16mentioned customer
15:18experience, or
15:20customer satisfaction,
15:21but I'm also
15:22hearing employee
15:23satisfaction as well
15:24at Dynamics,
15:25and I think you
15:27were once again
15:28rewarded as a great
15:30place to work,
15:30which I think
15:32speaks to the
15:33spirit that you
15:33have in the
15:34organization.
15:35So, you know,
15:36so for us, for
15:37me, you know, if
15:38you don't have
15:39happy employees,
15:39it's impossible to
15:41have happy
15:41customers.
15:42If you don't have
15:43proud employees,
15:44it's impossible that
15:45they give the extra
15:46mile to go and
15:47deliver to the
15:48customers.
15:49If you don't have
15:51respected and
15:52well-treated
15:52employees, it is
15:54impossible to have
15:55your parcel or the
15:56packages that you're
15:57delivering in good
15:57condition when they're
15:58being delivered to
15:58the customers.
15:59So, indeed, we
16:01believe that you
16:02have happy
16:02employees, happy
16:04people.
16:05They will make
16:06sure that you have
16:06happy customers who
16:08will make sure that
16:09you have happy
16:09P&Ls.
16:11At the end of the
16:12day, the P&L.
16:12Absolutely.
16:13Absolutely.
16:14You know, in your
16:15previous leadership
16:16roles, I think more
16:18than 70% of the
16:19business was led by
16:20women.
16:23Did you have to
16:24take deliberate
16:26decisions on hiring
16:28women and
16:30what advice would
16:32you give to
16:33other leaders who
16:34might be watching
16:34this podcast on
16:36what they need to
16:37do?
16:37Did you, you
16:39know, say, I am
16:40intentionally going
16:41to hire a woman
16:43because I believe,
16:44you know, ABC,
16:46and that's what
16:47made you reach
16:48that 70%
16:51percentage of
16:52women in the
16:53roles?
16:54Yeah.
16:54So, you know, I'm
16:55happy to explain
16:56that, you know.
16:56so, you know,
16:58when we are
16:59growing up, I
17:00can't tell you
17:00at least from
17:01my country, you
17:02know, when we
17:02are growing up,
17:04our dads are less
17:05around than our
17:06mothers.
17:08When we are
17:09going and getting
17:10educated, our
17:12mothers make sure
17:12that we are
17:13clean, you know,
17:14going to school
17:16and coming back,
17:17that we are
17:18fed, that we
17:20are studying,
17:21they go to the
17:22meetings when
17:23there are meetings
17:23that are requested,
17:24the parents,
17:25teacher meetings,
17:26know, the dads
17:26are less present
17:27than the mothers.
17:30So we grow up in
17:31a society like
17:32that, right?
17:34And then we
17:34become like, as
17:36boys, you know,
17:37you are a hero,
17:38but we forget that
17:39you are not the
17:40hero, your mom
17:40made you a hero.
17:43And then when you
17:44check our sisters
17:45or our daughters,
17:47their performance
17:48at school is at a
17:49different level than
17:50the boys.
17:52Yet, when we come
17:53to the corporate
17:54world, we have to
17:55set up programs
17:57to talk about
17:58gender diversity
17:59in order for us
18:00to recruit the
18:01people who actually
18:02made us who we
18:03are.
18:03So me, I strongly
18:05believe that, you
18:05know, the people
18:06who made us who
18:07we are are actually
18:08the people who can
18:09make our businesses
18:10also better.
18:12Why?
18:12Because they will
18:13be talking about
18:14the business like
18:14caretakers, they
18:16will be taking care
18:17of the people like
18:18caretakers, they
18:19will be having
18:19honest conversation
18:20on the quality of
18:21the service, they
18:23will not be
18:23over-exaggerating
18:24what they have
18:25done.
18:25I know, you
18:25know, I have
18:26boys, you know, I
18:27hang around with
18:28boys, so, you
18:28know, we tend to
18:29over-exaggerate
18:29everything that we
18:30are achieving.
18:31The ladies don't
18:32do that massively.
18:33They're extremely
18:34honest and extremely
18:35humble, and in
18:36general, they're
18:37also much more
18:39compliant than boys
18:41when they're running
18:42businesses.
18:43That is my
18:44experience.
18:44So for me, it
18:45was not following a
18:46program or having
18:48some sort of a,
18:49you know,
18:49illumination coming
18:50from any intellectual.
18:52I did it intentionally
18:53because I know
18:54inside myself that
18:56our sisters actually
18:59do perform better
18:59than us in many
19:01domains, at school,
19:02in engineering, in
19:03mathematics, so
19:04therefore they must
19:05also be able to
19:06perform better in
19:07any business that we
19:08do.
19:08And I just have to,
19:10you know, second
19:12that even within
19:13Howie Media Group,
19:15we're at 52%
19:16women, and I truly
19:18believe what they
19:19bring into the
19:21conversation is a
19:23human aspect of our
19:25decision-making, and
19:26that sometimes I feel
19:27is lacked by the
19:29male leadership.
19:31So, yeah, totally
19:33agree.
19:35You're fluent in
19:36several languages.
19:38I always say language
19:40is an investment you
19:41make in yourself.
19:42French, German,
19:43English, and
19:44Fulani.
19:44Hopefully Arabic soon
19:46as well, right?
19:47Do you find that
19:49language is an area
19:52where it makes it
19:52easier to communicate
19:55and accept others
19:58linguistically but also
19:59culturally?
20:01So, yeah.
20:03You know, me, I
20:03personally believe that
20:04it is important to
20:05know as many languages
20:06as possible.
20:08because, you know,
20:09if you go in an
20:13Arabic family, and
20:15even if your Arabic
20:15is not perfect, if
20:18you can speak a
20:19little bit of
20:19Arabic for the
20:20introduction, it
20:21unlocks the
20:22opportunity to have
20:22an open
20:23conversation.
20:24If you can do
20:25that in Mandarin, if
20:26you can do that in
20:27Japanese, it unlocks
20:28the opportunity of
20:29engaging at a
20:30different level in a
20:30conversation.
20:32And when you
20:33understand, you
20:35know, we all have
20:35learned philosophy.
20:38So, learning German
20:39has allowed me to
20:41read the
20:41philosophical books
20:42in German.
20:44And when you
20:45read the
20:45philosophical books
20:46in German, or
20:47the organizational
20:48books, you know,
20:49from Weber, then
20:51you understand the
20:52rigor that is put
20:54in place in putting
20:55complex organizational
20:56structures to be
20:57able to be efficient
20:58in the operations.
21:00And that complexity
21:01is even in the
21:02language.
21:03You know, if you
21:05speak French,
21:07you understand the
21:07creativity that is
21:08connected to the
21:09French language that
21:10sometimes create
21:11creative organizational
21:13complexities that you
21:15might not need.
21:17The same is with
21:18English, you know.
21:18So, if you have the
21:20proper BBC English
21:21speaking guys, you
21:22know that, you know,
21:23you'd be talking
21:23faster than you
21:24actually can organize
21:25yourself.
21:26So, but I think it is
21:27really important to
21:28understand the
21:28languages so that you
21:30have a deeper
21:30understanding of the
21:31culture.
21:31if you have a deeper
21:32understanding of the
21:33culture, you have a
21:33much better penetration
21:35in terms of engaging
21:37commercially with any
21:38population than if you
21:39don't understand the
21:40languages.
21:41So, and for us, I
21:42mean, in Africa, we
21:43have French, English,
21:44Spanish, Portuguese,
21:46you know, Arabic, that
21:48are like core languages
21:49that are spoken
21:49everywhere.
21:50So, if you understand
21:51those, then you can
21:51treat these 1.4 billion
21:53people.
21:56You know, your
21:57background and your
21:58belief in diversity is,
22:00you know, well
22:01documented.
22:04How do you make sure
22:07that diversity is not
22:08a checkbox?
22:09You know, many people
22:10or leaders have a hard
22:11time or they believe
22:13that it's just a matter
22:13of, yes, I have
22:15diversity in my
22:16organization.
22:17How do you make sure
22:18that diversity is not
22:20a checkbox, that it's
22:21actually actionable
22:25strategy, execution
22:27when you speak of
22:27diversity?
22:29Well, so, you know,
22:30you can't have
22:30diversity and then you
22:31have a Chinese guy
22:32sitting in the room,
22:33you have a Senegalese
22:34guy like me sitting in
22:35the room, you have a
22:35Syrian guy sitting in
22:36the room, and then you
22:37have an Algerian sitting
22:38in the room, then you
22:39think you are diverse.
22:41But that is just
22:42physical presence.
22:45As long as you cannot
22:46unlock the brains of
22:47the people so that they
22:48can tell you from their
22:50perspective what they
22:51think is a solution
22:52that you should
22:53adapt, so that they
22:54have a diversity of
22:55opinion on the table,
22:57then diversity is
22:58useless.
23:00And for me, you know,
23:01it is really all about
23:02how to actively engage
23:04to understand, okay,
23:05if I want to do
23:06something with somebody
23:07that is coming from
23:08Shenzhen, what do I
23:11need to understand
23:12about the Chinese
23:12culture?
23:14So, you know,
23:15sometimes us, you
23:16know, we are like,
23:17ah, you know, but we
23:18cannot go to the hot
23:19pot and then eat
23:20Chinese food at
23:21international city.
23:22If the Chinese can eat
23:23it, you can eat it,
23:24because they are human
23:25beings like us.
23:26If the Japanese, they
23:28can eat raw fish, even
23:29if you don't like it,
23:30you can eat it, because
23:31the Japanese are human
23:32beings like us.
23:33If you want to eat
23:34couscous, you go to the
23:35Marocans, then you can
23:36eat couscous.
23:36but if you can integrate
23:37all the different
23:38cultures, and you can
23:41integrate behind the
23:42language, you know, the
23:42real element of the
23:43culture, then you really
23:45have an easier commercial
23:48engagement with the
23:50people, because they are
23:51open to do anything with
23:52you, because they will be
23:53open to have fun with
23:54you, they will open to
23:55laugh with you, they will
23:56also be open to give you
23:57business, but if you are
23:59not open and curious enough
24:00to do that, then it will
24:02be very difficult for you.
24:03So, for me, I believe that,
24:04you know, we learn a lot of
24:05concepts in the
24:06international schools, we
24:08learn a lot of concepts in
24:09marketing, and sales
24:10approach, the one thing
24:12that we don't learn is
24:13that culture is more
24:15important than process,
24:16culture is more important
24:18than theories, and when
24:20you understand cultures,
24:21you have a much easier
24:22penetration of any society
24:24that you want to
24:24integrate with than if you
24:26don't have it.
24:27And, you know, for me,
24:28coming from the village, I
24:31had to integrate in the
24:32capital of Senegal, I had
24:34to integrate in Paris, I
24:35had to integrate in
24:36England, I had to
24:37integrate in Germany, in
24:38Singapore, and many places
24:39that I have been living.
24:41So, and that is the
24:42training that I have needed
24:43to understand that, you
24:45know, if you come from the
24:46village, always remember,
24:47you come from the village.
24:48Don't pretend, now I'm
24:49coming from Paris, or now I'm
24:50coming from New York, so I
24:52know it all, you never know
24:53it all.
24:53Just come like somebody who
24:55comes from the village.
24:55Don't forget your roots, in
24:57a way, and I love it that
24:59you're bringing up culture, and
25:00the podcast itself is
25:02culture, and because I
25:04truly believe this is where
25:06it starts, when you open up
25:07to understanding others, and
25:10you're, you know, you've
25:11invested in yourself to be
25:13accepting of others, this is
25:15where diversity becomes key to
25:17the organization.
25:18You've described unity and
25:20resilience as important
25:22elements of organizational
25:23culture.
25:24How can leaders strengthen
25:26both during periods of
25:27uncertainty, disruption, and
25:30transformation?
25:31This is something that
25:32happens every two, three
25:33years.
25:34We, there is something that
25:35happens globally, and we
25:37have no control over it.
25:38What are, what is your
25:40recipe for managing such
25:43situations?
25:45Calmness.
25:47Calmness.
25:48So, you know, I mean, we
25:50have been witnessing it here
25:52in the UAE.
25:55You know, when Allah has no
25:57decided that you're gone,
25:59you are around.
26:00And as long as you're around,
26:02be calm and do whatever it
26:04takes to make sure that
26:05people are fed, people are
26:07safe, people are having fun,
26:10and people feel like life is
26:13still around.
26:14And for me, as long as we are
26:15breathing, we have an
26:17opportunity to have an impact.
26:19And resilience is really
26:21deciding to go and have an
26:23impact and not sit down and
26:24wait.
26:25you know, and for me, I
26:27always think that life is
26:28very, very short.
26:29And, you know, whatever
26:31incident happened in our
26:32lives, there are bigger
26:34incidents happening to other
26:35people's lives.
26:36So, and whatever challenge
26:38that we think we are facing,
26:39there are bigger challenges
26:40that are being faced by other
26:41people.
26:42So, and if you just, me, I
26:43always think, if you just
26:45remember that 600 million
26:47people don't have electricity,
26:49so they can't talk about
26:50technology, they can't talk
26:51about any of the things that
26:52we utilize to listen to news,
26:54watch movies, et cetera, yet
26:56they survive.
26:58Over 800 million people don't
26:59have access to proper water,
27:01yet they survive.
27:03So, who am I to sit down here
27:04and complain about something?
27:06So, that's what I mean for
27:08me when I look at my
27:08colleagues and we see all the
27:10situations that we do have,
27:11we have a lot of Palestinian
27:12colleagues at Aramax.
27:15I want to say, you know, if
27:16we believe that whatever we
27:17are seeing is tougher than
27:18what is happening in Gaza,
27:20then we can sit down and
27:21check.
27:22But if we know that it is not
27:23tougher, then we should wake up
27:24and go and run.
27:26And I think it is not tougher.
27:27So, you know, I think we have to
27:28wake up and go and run because
27:30we can help many people.
27:32Spot on.
27:34Amadou, do you think
27:38age and wisdom helped you to
27:40this, where you are today?
27:42I mean, the younger Amadou,
27:44did you ever feel like, I can
27:46change destiny?
27:49You know, I'm upset that things
27:51did not happen the way I wanted
27:53them to happen.
27:55Is this something like, if you
27:57were to ask the 20-year-old
27:59Amadou, would you have the
28:01same answer today?
28:03So, I think that when I was
28:04younger, I was a little bit more
28:05stupid and radical.
28:08Wisdom have given me now that
28:09I'm calmer, you know.
28:12But, yeah, since I was a young
28:15kid and I didn't get it from
28:17myself, my grandmother used to
28:19be helping, you know, all the
28:23ladies living in the village when
28:25they were giving birth, etc.
28:26So, I used to hang around with
28:27my grandmother a lot.
28:29and that is also the reason why I
28:31have a girls' education foundation
28:33in the village of my
28:34grandmother.
28:35So, I learned it from my
28:36grandmother and then, so it is
28:39not something that I've taught
28:40myself, I taught, I learned it
28:42from my grandmother and my
28:43grandmother was not an educated
28:44person, she was an illiterate
28:46living in the village.
28:48So, that is the part of the
28:49village that I'm carrying with
28:50me.
28:51You know, you brought up the
28:54girls' education just now.
28:57You have a lot of focus on girls'
29:00education, food security, health
29:01and community development.
29:03How have these experiences
29:07influenced a CEO?
29:11You know, I always think that the
29:12CEO is a title.
29:15The thing is, you know, what is it
29:16that I can do to contribute into my
29:19organization so that our
29:20organization, with all the
29:22colleagues that are walking around
29:23can wake up, walk, go home and be
29:26proud of whatever they're doing.
29:28And that's the same thing for the
29:29community.
29:30I, you know, I always think of what
29:32can I do to make sure that the
29:34people who are living in my
29:35community, after they have fought for
29:38the education or whatsoever, they
29:39can go home and they're proud.
29:41And for me, you know, when you go to
29:43bed with pride, you sleep easy.
29:47If you go to bed with stomach pain
29:49because you didn't do something nice
29:51or good, you don't sleep easy.
29:54And me, I like to sleep easy.
29:56You know, so for me, you know, any of
30:00these activities or, you know, any
30:02activity that I run inside the
30:04organization, so I can't work
30:05Saturday, Sunday, I don't care about
30:06weekends and stuff like that.
30:08because any customer that is not
30:10happy, it doesn't make me feel good.
30:13So that's why if a customer sends me
30:15something at 9.30 p.m., I will not be
30:18going to bed.
30:19I will try to work on fixing it first
30:21before going to bed.
30:22And I think that it is not because of
30:24revenue.
30:25It's not because of customer service.
30:28It's a human being that needs something
30:30and it is not resolved and you need to
30:32help resolve it.
30:33And that's how I look at it.
30:35I don't look at it from a perspective of
30:36or CEO.
30:36I was also, you know, working in the
30:38archives in an organization.
30:39I was working in the Department of
30:41Finance for Receivables or Payables.
30:43So I've been working in different parts of
30:44the organization.
30:45And for me, regardless of where you work,
30:49what is it that is painful for your
30:50stomach and how much energy you put so
30:53that you don't have pain in your stomach
30:55when you go to bed?
30:56And I like to sleep easy.
31:00Shifting gears to, obviously, AI.
31:03You know, it's part of our daily lives now
31:05in every industry and vertical.
31:08How does AI and automation link to the
31:15logistics business and its impact on
31:18employees, their culture?
31:20and how do you see the next five years
31:24happening with AI?
31:27I mean, from my experience, so I was also
31:30programming when I was a bit younger.
31:33I think computer science, data science
31:38nowadays, or AI are a lot of tools that
31:40are being developed to make our life easier.
31:44There are a lot of tools that are being
31:45developed to make sure that we have a
31:47good work-life balance ourselves.
31:50So, you know, you have a lot of AI
31:52applications that are being utilized to
31:54replace things that we do routinely.
31:57So, where is my shipment?
31:59You go, you log into the computer, you go
32:01and look for the shipment information, and
32:03then you send the information, there is
32:05your shipment.
32:06That is something, it is nice if you're
32:09doing it physically, but if you have to
32:10do it a million times, extremely boring.
32:12So, if you have an AI agent that can do
32:15it, it makes life easier for whoever was
32:17doing it.
32:18Same is for your receivables, your
32:20payment that has missed the delay.
32:23A lot of things that we do in life, you
32:25know, in our working life, a lot of
32:27repetitive tasks, and that is something
32:29that automation can help you recover
32:31very fast.
32:32The other side of AI is when you're
32:35researching information.
32:36So, when you and I were studying, you
32:40know, we had the books, thousands of
32:42books, and we had the impression that
32:43we're reading a lot of books, but we
32:44knew that we're not reading 1% of the
32:46books that exist.
32:48Today, AI can read all these books for
32:49you and give you an executive summary of
32:51what is actually taught about a subject.
32:54So, the ease of access to knowledge is
32:57enhanced.
32:59We didn't have that type of ease of
33:01access to knowledge, and I think that the
33:03new generation will have that ease of
33:04access to knowledge, and that is also for
33:06the employees that are working.
33:08The number of boring emails that we have
33:10been writing when we were working in
33:12offices, you know, and then we had to
33:13repeat the mail and repeat the email, now
33:16we can't have an AI agent that is writing
33:18these boring emails.
33:19The number of times that we were writing
33:21these wrong formulations because, you
33:23know, our English was not good enough or
33:25whatsoever, now we have AI agents that
33:27can actually make sure that the English
33:28that you're utilizing is well-formulated,
33:30polite, you know, in all the formats that
33:32are necessary.
33:33So, for me, AI is going to make our
33:36life easy, and it will make the life of
33:39our employees easy.
33:40It will make growing the business easy,
33:43if we use it properly.
33:46So, I don't see AI as a big
33:50hindrance.
33:50Like all the technologies, I think that
33:52every improvement in technology is to
33:54make people's life better.
33:56So, and for me, you know, I always say
33:58in our organization, we are working
34:01towards building a better tomorrow
34:03for everybody.
34:04So, and AI will help us include more
34:06people that have been excluded into the
34:09global market.
34:11I'm going to do our, my last question
34:13to you.
34:16Is there any leadership belief that you
34:19had in your earlier career that today,
34:24when you look back, you would wish to
34:27reconsider?
34:28You would think that, you know, I should
34:31have done something differently.
34:34Well, yeah, sure.
34:35Certainly, you know, so when I was
34:36studying, you know, when you grow up in
34:40the emerging markets and you go and
34:41you do your Bachelor of Business
34:44Administration, your Master of Business
34:45Administration, you learn a lot, you
34:48know, on how to conduct everything with
34:511,500 KPIs.
34:55But there's no learning from those areas
34:59or from engaging with fantastic
35:00consultants that actually teaches you
35:03that there's one KPI that is more
35:05important than all of these BS KPIs.
35:08And that one KPI is really being able to
35:11look and unlock sparkling eyes in the eye
35:14of the colleagues that are standing next
35:16to you.
35:17So for me, what I've learned with the
35:20experience is that the best KPI in the
35:23world is the sparkling eyes of any
35:26colleague that is standing in front of
35:27you or of customers that are standing in
35:29front of you, because that means that
35:30everything is going fine.
35:31If you don't have sparkling eyes, forget
35:33your KPIs.
35:35Anything is not going fine.
35:36I love it.
35:38Sparkling eyes.
35:39Yeah.
35:39Thank you, Amadou, for a very insightful
35:42session today.
35:43Learned a lot.
35:44I hope we see you again soon.
35:46Thank you for having me.
35:47Thank you.
35:47Thank you.
35:47Thank you.
35:48Thank you.
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