What truly defines effective leadership? Is it the bottom line, or the human connection you foster? Join us on Culture An as we sit down with Amadou, a visionary leader who has steered global organizations across diverse continents.
Discover how Amadou, a proud polyglot from Senegal, grounds his international leadership style in the humility and perspective of his village roots. He shares invaluable insights on understanding and shaping organizational culture, emphasizing the power of genuine human interaction over titles and external perceptions.
Learn Amadou's unique approach to assessing new organizations, from connecting with past leaders to immersing himself within local offices. He reveals his philosophy on preserving essential cultural elements while driving impactful change, all stemming from a core belief in leveraging diverse origins for global success.
Explore the profound impact of physical presence and direct communication in grasping an organization's true essence. This conversation offers a compelling look at how empathy, humility, and a deep understanding of people are the ultimate KPIs for any leader aiming to build resilient and high-performing teams across borders.
#LeadershipCulture #OrganizationalCulture #HumanConnection #GlobalLeadership
Discover how Amadou, a proud polyglot from Senegal, grounds his international leadership style in the humility and perspective of his village roots. He shares invaluable insights on understanding and shaping organizational culture, emphasizing the power of genuine human interaction over titles and external perceptions.
Learn Amadou's unique approach to assessing new organizations, from connecting with past leaders to immersing himself within local offices. He reveals his philosophy on preserving essential cultural elements while driving impactful change, all stemming from a core belief in leveraging diverse origins for global success.
Explore the profound impact of physical presence and direct communication in grasping an organization's true essence. This conversation offers a compelling look at how empathy, humility, and a deep understanding of people are the ultimate KPIs for any leader aiming to build resilient and high-performing teams across borders.
#LeadershipCulture #OrganizationalCulture #HumanConnection #GlobalLeadership
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LearningTranscript
00:00What you feel is through the look of the people
00:03is different from what you feel when just talking to the people.
00:06The emotion that you get from engaging physically with people
00:09is different from the conversation that you can have.
00:19Welcome to Culture An .
00:22The podcast exploring the people, ideas and conversations
00:30ترجمة نانسي قنقرات التواصل الاجتماعي
00:5670% of the business under his leadership.
00:59A Sinhalese national and a polyglot,
01:02Amadou's impact extends far beyond corporate performance.
01:06He actively supports initiatives advancing girls' education,
01:10food security, health care, and community development.
01:14Amadou, welcome to Culture And by Inca Arabia.
01:17We are excited to explore how leaders can build cultures of unity,
01:21resilience, and high performance across borders.
01:24Thanks for having me, Andy.
01:25It's a pleasure. It's a pleasure.
01:28You know, when I went over your profile and your LinkedIn,
01:34I was very taken back by the impressive background
01:41that you've built yourself.
01:43You've led many major organizations across Europe,
01:47Middle East, Africa, Asia.
01:49How has working across such different cultures
01:53shaped your leadership style?
01:57Well, I think that, you know, first of all, thanks for having me.
02:00And, you know, when you're walking through all of these places,
02:05if you look at it from outside,
02:06it looks like, you know, something extraordinary.
02:09But I come from the village, you know,
02:11I come from a village in the south of Senegal.
02:14And one thing that has always kept alive in my brain
02:18is that I'm a man from the village.
02:21So that means that for me,
02:24regardless of the environment in which I work,
02:26I still come with my village people mentality.
02:30and I always leave it with my village people mentality.
02:33That means that you look at any space as a small space.
02:40You look at the space with the people living around,
02:46with the infrastructure that is around,
02:48with the mentality that is around.
02:50But you always look at it from your perspective of a village guy.
02:53So, you know, there's a lot of humility.
02:55And I think that if you come with humility,
02:58you will leave with humility
02:58and nothing will really change in you.
03:01Amazing.
03:02I mean, humility, humility, humility.
03:04And this is sometimes we overlook this.
03:08And, you know, we follow the titles
03:11versus the impact that you have on people and organization.
03:17Very inspiring, Amadou.
03:20If I was to ask now more on the technical
03:24or organizational side of the conversation,
03:26when you join a new organization as a group CEO,
03:31you know, someone who's leading the pact,
03:34how do you understand the culture of this new organization
03:37and what areas you will focus on changing
03:43versus, you know, units or departments
03:48where you want to preserve?
03:49How do you know this is something that I want to change
03:52and this is something I want to hold on to?
03:55I think the most important part to understand
03:58in any organization is the culture.
04:01And, you know, obviously,
04:02you cannot understand the culture of an organization
04:05if you just come in and have a few one-to-ones.
04:09So for me, you know, before joining RMX,
04:12I reached out to any previous CEO
04:14that has been running RMX
04:15to understand from them what were the opportunities
04:18or the challenges they faced,
04:19but also to understand the culture that they have instilled.
04:23So, you know, I met with the founder, Fadi, you know.
04:26So I met with Osman,
04:28who was the last one to run the organization.
04:30So I tried to converse with everybody.
04:33And then when I joined,
04:34the first thing I did was to go to Amman.
04:37You know, usually you go to New York
04:39or you go to some fantastic places.
04:41I went to Amman.
04:41and why did I go to Amman?
04:43Because I thought it is important to understand
04:46department by department, office by office,
04:49what is the true culture of the organization.
04:53And I think once you understand
04:55the true culture of the organization,
04:57then everything gets easier to take care of.
05:03and in the context of RMX,
05:05so, you know, you come from Syria,
05:07you have been in the U.S.,
05:08you are an American,
05:09but you actually come from this region.
05:12So I come from Senegal.
05:14You know, Senegal was representing Palestine
05:15since I was born at the U.N.
05:19So, and when I went to Amman,
05:22to Amman, what I sort of,
05:24what came up to my mind was that,
05:29Christianism was born around Jordan.
05:34Islam was born around Jordan.
05:37The monolithic beliefs were born around Jordan.
05:40And they went global from that region.
05:44RMX was born in Jordan.
05:47And for me, the culture that I want to inset
05:50is that, you know,
05:50if we come from a region where
05:53most of the beliefs of the global people
05:56has been expanded from,
05:58we can also create a logistics platform
06:00that comes from that place
06:01and should not be super complicated
06:02as if you are coming from
06:04the more complicated places,
06:06you know, in Western Europe or in America.
06:09And that core belief
06:10is the core belief that we want to keep
06:12in the mind of all of our people.
06:15Because, you know,
06:16when we are young Muslims,
06:18African,
06:20growing up in Europe
06:21or going to America
06:22or in Asia,
06:23you're faced with a lot of underestimation.
06:26So I think that we have
06:27a big opportunity to impress.
06:29And that is what we are trying to push.
06:31You mentioned something
06:32about the one-on-ones.
06:33You had met with the previous founders
06:35to, you know,
06:36understand the culture
06:37of the organization.
06:38How often do you do one-on-ones
06:40with your, you know,
06:42leadership team
06:43or skip-level team?
06:46So I meet my people.
06:48So every time I come to the office,
06:50you know,
06:50I take a big value
06:52in going,
06:53walking around
06:54and saying good morning
06:55to each and every individual
06:56that is in my office.
07:00Why?
07:00Because
07:02what you feel
07:03through the looks
07:05of the people
07:06is different
07:07from what you feel
07:08when just talking
07:08to the people.
07:11What you,
07:11the emotion that you get,
07:13you know,
07:14from engaging physically
07:15with people
07:15is different
07:16from the conversation
07:18that you can have.
07:20And for me,
07:21you know,
07:22the formal one-on-one,
07:23I have it every two weeks
07:24with my colleagues.
07:26But it is more
07:27for an update
07:28on where we are.
07:30But the permanent one-on-one
07:31is really engaging physically
07:32with all of our colleagues,
07:34be it the person
07:35that is in charge
07:36of security,
07:37be it in connection
07:39with the people
07:39who are at the reception,
07:41anybody that is working
07:42in the organization
07:43because,
07:44you know,
07:44if we are all
07:46simple units
07:47that are participating
07:48to the growth
07:49of an entire organization,
07:50then it is a better engagement
07:52than if you are
07:53complicated people
07:54running the business.
07:57You know,
07:57RMX operates
07:59in many communities,
08:02languages,
08:03markets,
08:04very diverse,
08:05obviously.
08:05And I think
08:06we've all used,
08:07one time
08:07or another used RMX.
08:09that diversity
08:10is probably
08:12a challenge.
08:14How do you,
08:15you know,
08:16maintain
08:16that diversity
08:18without losing
08:19the local
08:21sense
08:22of the language,
08:24the community,
08:24the market?
08:27Thank you.
08:27That's a very good question.
08:28You know,
08:29so the diversity
08:30is a challenge,
08:31but it is the biggest
08:32opportunity
08:32that we do have.
08:33So,
08:34for instance,
08:35if we are operating
08:36out of India,
08:37we have to be
08:37more Indian
08:38than any other
08:39company that is
08:39operating out of India.
08:41If you are operating
08:41out of China,
08:42in China,
08:43we have to be
08:44more Chinese
08:44than any other
08:45organization
08:45that is operating
08:46out of China.
08:47And we want
08:47to be the same
08:48in Egypt,
08:49in Morocco,
08:50in Ghana,
08:50Nigeria,
08:51in any other
08:51place that we
08:52are operating in.
08:53We have to have
08:54standardized processes,
08:56but we have to
08:57be very local.
08:58Why?
08:59Because if you
09:00cannot connect
09:01with the community,
09:03the local community,
09:05it will be
09:06very difficult
09:06for you to be
09:07understood or to
09:07understand what
09:08you're doing
09:08with the community,
09:09what you're
09:10building for the
09:10community.
09:11And if you
09:12can't understand
09:12that,
09:13then it will
09:13be difficult
09:14to engage
09:14with the
09:15customers who
09:15are coming
09:15from the
09:16community.
09:16It will be
09:17difficult to
09:17engage with
09:17the partners
09:18that are coming
09:18from the
09:19community.
09:20And I think
09:20that as a
09:21company that
09:22is coming
09:22from the
09:22global south,
09:24we should be
09:25better prepared
09:25than a Korean
09:27company,
09:27a German
09:28company,
09:29an American
09:29company,
09:30to understand
09:31the value
09:31of respecting
09:32the local
09:33culture,
09:34the local
09:34community,
09:35in the
09:35local uniqueness
09:37that you
09:38have to
09:38bring in
09:39every community
09:39so that
09:40everybody that
09:40is coming
09:41to you
09:41feels at
09:41home in
09:42any place
09:43you're
09:43working.
09:43So for
09:44us,
09:44we use
09:45the diversity
09:45as our
09:46opportunity.
09:47We use
09:48the diversity
09:49not as a
09:50challenge,
09:50we use it
09:50as the
09:52platform that
09:52allows our
09:53technology to
09:54connect with
09:54the community.
09:55And that's
09:56how we'll
09:56be further
09:57cultivating it
09:58across all
09:58the countries.
09:59The saying
10:00goes,
10:01think global,
10:02act local,
10:03in a way.
10:04So what I'm
10:06hearing is
10:07that relying
10:08on local
10:11resources,
10:13expertise,
10:15somehow
10:15fixes this
10:17issue.
10:18They know
10:19what's best
10:20in their
10:20own markets.
10:21Correct.
10:22So you'll
10:22always have
10:22community
10:23where you
10:23are challenged
10:24in terms
10:24of compliant
10:25processes,
10:26where you
10:26need to
10:27bring somebody
10:27that is
10:28independent,
10:29inside the
10:29organization,
10:30not to lead
10:31the organization,
10:31but to be
10:32part of the
10:32organization,
10:33to be able
10:34to show a
10:34mirror.
10:36And that is
10:36really just
10:37to bring
10:37your processes.
10:39So I think
10:40that you can
10:40have global
10:41processes,
10:42but you have
10:43to be very
10:43local in the
10:44culture.
10:45And that is
10:46the minimum
10:46respect that
10:47you have for
10:47any country
10:47that you're
10:48operating in.
10:48And I can
10:49imagine also
10:50compliance would
10:50also become
10:51another layer
10:52of challenges.
10:54Each market
10:55has its own
10:56compliance issues,
10:57right?
10:57Yeah.
10:58Every market
10:58has its own
10:58compliance issue,
10:59so we have
11:00compliance,
11:01the approach
11:01of compliance
11:02that is
11:02coming from
11:03the Western
11:03world,
11:04but we also
11:04have the
11:05approach
11:05of compliance
11:06that is
11:06coming from
11:06our world,
11:07you know,
11:08and,
11:08you know,
11:08halal
11:10and haram
11:12in the
11:12Islamic
11:13religion
11:14is longer,
11:15is there
11:15longer than
11:16compliance
11:16has been
11:17invented
11:17in the
11:18international
11:18schools
11:19where it
11:19is being
11:19taught.
11:20So,
11:21and what
11:21we try
11:21to do
11:21is really
11:22utilize
11:23what is
11:24actually
11:24coming out
11:25of our
11:25market,
11:25and it's
11:26really,
11:26you know,
11:27thousands of
11:28years in
11:28our civilization
11:31to use it
11:31as a vehicle
11:32to explain
11:33to the people
11:34do anything
11:35that is
11:36halal,
11:36be ethical,
11:37like the
11:38religion is
11:38actually teaching
11:39you,
11:39and it is
11:40both the
11:40Christian
11:40and the
11:42Islamic
11:42religion,
11:44be humble,
11:46that's what
11:46our religion
11:47is requesting
11:48from us,
11:49exercise
11:50so serve
11:51the community,
11:52that is
11:52what the
11:52religion is,
11:53so it is
11:53not something
11:54that we
11:54have to
11:54learn from
11:55any
11:55international
11:56business
11:56school,
11:57it's
11:57something we
11:57learn when
11:58we are
11:58babies,
11:58you know,
11:59growing up,
11:59so I
12:00think that
12:00that is
12:00what we're
12:00trying to
12:01vehiculate
12:01across all
12:02the markets.
12:04You know,
12:05your RMX
12:06is in the
12:06business of
12:07logistics,
12:07and this
12:09is an
12:10extremely
12:11challenging
12:11business,
12:12where,
12:13you know,
12:14the expectations
12:14that my
12:15delivery is in
12:16the next
12:1710-15
12:17minutes,
12:18and,
12:18you know,
12:18we live here
12:19in Dubai,
12:19we know
12:20that,
12:20you know,
12:21when we
12:21expect a
12:22package within
12:2315 minutes,
12:23half an hour,
12:24you have it.
12:25How do you
12:26execute on
12:27this without
12:29the employee
12:30burnout?
12:31I mean,
12:32is there
12:34pressure
12:35top-down
12:36so that you
12:37can deliver
12:38on the
12:39expectations
12:40of the
12:41consumer?
12:42So,
12:42you know,
12:43I mean,
12:43logistics has
12:44become more
12:44and more
12:45complicated in
12:46terms of
12:46what are
12:47the expectations,
12:47and,
12:48you know,
12:48you have a
12:48lot of
12:49e-commerce
12:49companies that
12:50are bringing
12:50even more
12:51pressure in
12:51terms of
12:51lead time
12:52to deliver,
12:54but there
12:54are always
12:55operational
12:57components that
12:58you can put in
12:58place to be
12:59able to be
12:59fast.
13:00So,
13:01for instance,
13:02you know,
13:02when you are
13:03receiving your
13:04goods that you
13:05order on some
13:06e-commerce platform
13:07within one hour
13:08or two hours,
13:10it's because there
13:10is a fulfillment
13:11center that is not
13:12far away from
13:12where you live,
13:13and people
13:14delivery champions,
13:16we call them in
13:16our organization,
13:17that are sort of
13:18assembled around
13:19that place that
13:20are in charge of
13:20a segment of the
13:22city where it
13:23needs to be
13:23delivered.
13:24So,
13:24it is not that,
13:26you know,
13:26everybody is going
13:27to one center and
13:28then rushing around
13:28the city.
13:29Everybody is coming
13:30from one distribution
13:31center.
13:32You know,
13:32we have more than
13:3338 offices,
13:33so people are coming
13:34from 38 different
13:35places to be able
13:36to deliver.
13:39We give particular
13:41care to the
13:41well-being of our
13:42people because,
13:45you know,
13:46if you don't take
13:47care of the
13:48people, not only
13:51will they not be
13:52productive, but
13:54you're giving
13:54yourself chances to
13:56not go to
13:57Algena because you
13:58have to respect
13:59the people.
14:00If you don't care
14:01about the physical
14:04wholeness of the
14:05people, if you
14:06don't care about
14:06care about the
14:07respect that the
14:08people deserve,
14:10then you're
14:10destroying your
14:11own organization
14:12because the
14:12quality of the
14:13deliveries will be
14:14different, the
14:14sparkle in the eyes
14:15of the colleagues
14:16that are delivering
14:17will be different
14:18and the customer
14:19will feel it.
14:20So, what we're
14:20trying to do,
14:21and maybe you
14:22have seen it,
14:22we celebrate all
14:23of our delivery
14:24champions across
14:24the entire
14:25network.
14:27What we're
14:28trying to do is
14:29really to build
14:29an environment
14:30where our people,
14:31they feel safe,
14:32they feel respected,
14:34they feel valued,
14:36and not overstressed
14:37because if they're
14:38overstressed, then
14:38the quality of the
14:39service will not be
14:40good.
14:42So, we are
14:43organized really in
14:44different zones for
14:45the e-commerce part,
14:46but our business
14:48goes way beyond
14:49the e-commerce part,
14:50so we have a lot
14:50of goods that are
14:51coming from China,
14:53coming from America
14:54and Asia,
14:55different size,
14:57because we do
14:58freight, we do
14:59supply chain, and
15:00we do international
15:02B2B express, and
15:04e-commerce.
15:05People always talk
15:06about the e-commerce
15:07part, but e-commerce
15:10is not the mass
15:10of the business
15:11that we do.
15:11We do a lot of
15:12other parts of the
15:13businesses that I
15:14mentioned.
15:15You know, you
15:16mentioned customer
15:18experience, or
15:20customer satisfaction,
15:21but I'm also
15:22hearing employee
15:23satisfaction as well
15:24at Dynamics,
15:25and I think you
15:27were once again
15:28rewarded as a great
15:30place to work,
15:30which I think
15:32speaks to the
15:33spirit that you
15:33have in the
15:34organization.
15:35So, you know,
15:36so for us, for
15:37me, you know, if
15:38you don't have
15:39happy employees,
15:39it's impossible to
15:41have happy
15:41customers.
15:42If you don't have
15:43proud employees,
15:44it's impossible that
15:45they give the extra
15:46mile to go and
15:47deliver to the
15:48customers.
15:49If you don't have
15:51respected and
15:52well-treated
15:52employees, it is
15:54impossible to have
15:55your parcel or the
15:56packages that you're
15:57delivering in good
15:57condition when they're
15:58being delivered to
15:58the customers.
15:59So, indeed, we
16:01believe that you
16:02have happy
16:02employees, happy
16:04people.
16:05They will make
16:06sure that you have
16:06happy customers who
16:08will make sure that
16:09you have happy
16:09P&Ls.
16:11At the end of the
16:12day, the P&L.
16:12Absolutely.
16:13Absolutely.
16:14You know, in your
16:15previous leadership
16:16roles, I think more
16:18than 70% of the
16:19business was led by
16:20women.
16:23Did you have to
16:24take deliberate
16:26decisions on hiring
16:28women and
16:30what advice would
16:32you give to
16:33other leaders who
16:34might be watching
16:34this podcast on
16:36what they need to
16:37do?
16:37Did you, you
16:39know, say, I am
16:40intentionally going
16:41to hire a woman
16:43because I believe,
16:44you know, ABC,
16:46and that's what
16:47made you reach
16:48that 70%
16:51percentage of
16:52women in the
16:53roles?
16:54Yeah.
16:54So, you know, I'm
16:55happy to explain
16:56that, you know.
16:56so, you know,
16:58when we are
16:59growing up, I
17:00can't tell you
17:00at least from
17:01my country, you
17:02know, when we
17:02are growing up,
17:04our dads are less
17:05around than our
17:06mothers.
17:08When we are
17:09going and getting
17:10educated, our
17:12mothers make sure
17:12that we are
17:13clean, you know,
17:14going to school
17:16and coming back,
17:17that we are
17:18fed, that we
17:20are studying,
17:21they go to the
17:22meetings when
17:23there are meetings
17:23that are requested,
17:24the parents,
17:25teacher meetings,
17:26know, the dads
17:26are less present
17:27than the mothers.
17:30So we grow up in
17:31a society like
17:32that, right?
17:34And then we
17:34become like, as
17:36boys, you know,
17:37you are a hero,
17:38but we forget that
17:39you are not the
17:40hero, your mom
17:40made you a hero.
17:43And then when you
17:44check our sisters
17:45or our daughters,
17:47their performance
17:48at school is at a
17:49different level than
17:50the boys.
17:52Yet, when we come
17:53to the corporate
17:54world, we have to
17:55set up programs
17:57to talk about
17:58gender diversity
17:59in order for us
18:00to recruit the
18:01people who actually
18:02made us who we
18:03are.
18:03So me, I strongly
18:05believe that, you
18:05know, the people
18:06who made us who
18:07we are are actually
18:08the people who can
18:09make our businesses
18:10also better.
18:12Why?
18:12Because they will
18:13be talking about
18:14the business like
18:14caretakers, they
18:16will be taking care
18:17of the people like
18:18caretakers, they
18:19will be having
18:19honest conversation
18:20on the quality of
18:21the service, they
18:23will not be
18:23over-exaggerating
18:24what they have
18:25done.
18:25I know, you
18:25know, I have
18:26boys, you know, I
18:27hang around with
18:28boys, so, you
18:28know, we tend to
18:29over-exaggerate
18:29everything that we
18:30are achieving.
18:31The ladies don't
18:32do that massively.
18:33They're extremely
18:34honest and extremely
18:35humble, and in
18:36general, they're
18:37also much more
18:39compliant than boys
18:41when they're running
18:42businesses.
18:43That is my
18:44experience.
18:44So for me, it
18:45was not following a
18:46program or having
18:48some sort of a,
18:49you know,
18:49illumination coming
18:50from any intellectual.
18:52I did it intentionally
18:53because I know
18:54inside myself that
18:56our sisters actually
18:59do perform better
18:59than us in many
19:01domains, at school,
19:02in engineering, in
19:03mathematics, so
19:04therefore they must
19:05also be able to
19:06perform better in
19:07any business that we
19:08do.
19:08And I just have to,
19:10you know, second
19:12that even within
19:13Howie Media Group,
19:15we're at 52%
19:16women, and I truly
19:18believe what they
19:19bring into the
19:21conversation is a
19:23human aspect of our
19:25decision-making, and
19:26that sometimes I feel
19:27is lacked by the
19:29male leadership.
19:31So, yeah, totally
19:33agree.
19:35You're fluent in
19:36several languages.
19:38I always say language
19:40is an investment you
19:41make in yourself.
19:42French, German,
19:43English, and
19:44Fulani.
19:44Hopefully Arabic soon
19:46as well, right?
19:47Do you find that
19:49language is an area
19:52where it makes it
19:52easier to communicate
19:55and accept others
19:58linguistically but also
19:59culturally?
20:01So, yeah.
20:03You know, me, I
20:03personally believe that
20:04it is important to
20:05know as many languages
20:06as possible.
20:08because, you know,
20:09if you go in an
20:13Arabic family, and
20:15even if your Arabic
20:15is not perfect, if
20:18you can speak a
20:19little bit of
20:19Arabic for the
20:20introduction, it
20:21unlocks the
20:22opportunity to have
20:22an open
20:23conversation.
20:24If you can do
20:25that in Mandarin, if
20:26you can do that in
20:27Japanese, it unlocks
20:28the opportunity of
20:29engaging at a
20:30different level in a
20:30conversation.
20:32And when you
20:33understand, you
20:35know, we all have
20:35learned philosophy.
20:38So, learning German
20:39has allowed me to
20:41read the
20:41philosophical books
20:42in German.
20:44And when you
20:45read the
20:45philosophical books
20:46in German, or
20:47the organizational
20:48books, you know,
20:49from Weber, then
20:51you understand the
20:52rigor that is put
20:54in place in putting
20:55complex organizational
20:56structures to be
20:57able to be efficient
20:58in the operations.
21:00And that complexity
21:01is even in the
21:02language.
21:03You know, if you
21:05speak French,
21:07you understand the
21:07creativity that is
21:08connected to the
21:09French language that
21:10sometimes create
21:11creative organizational
21:13complexities that you
21:15might not need.
21:17The same is with
21:18English, you know.
21:18So, if you have the
21:20proper BBC English
21:21speaking guys, you
21:22know that, you know,
21:23you'd be talking
21:23faster than you
21:24actually can organize
21:25yourself.
21:26So, but I think it is
21:27really important to
21:28understand the
21:28languages so that you
21:30have a deeper
21:30understanding of the
21:31culture.
21:31if you have a deeper
21:32understanding of the
21:33culture, you have a
21:33much better penetration
21:35in terms of engaging
21:37commercially with any
21:38population than if you
21:39don't understand the
21:40languages.
21:41So, and for us, I
21:42mean, in Africa, we
21:43have French, English,
21:44Spanish, Portuguese,
21:46you know, Arabic, that
21:48are like core languages
21:49that are spoken
21:49everywhere.
21:50So, if you understand
21:51those, then you can
21:51treat these 1.4 billion
21:53people.
21:56You know, your
21:57background and your
21:58belief in diversity is,
22:00you know, well
22:01documented.
22:04How do you make sure
22:07that diversity is not
22:08a checkbox?
22:09You know, many people
22:10or leaders have a hard
22:11time or they believe
22:13that it's just a matter
22:13of, yes, I have
22:15diversity in my
22:16organization.
22:17How do you make sure
22:18that diversity is not
22:20a checkbox, that it's
22:21actually actionable
22:25strategy, execution
22:27when you speak of
22:27diversity?
22:29Well, so, you know,
22:30you can't have
22:30diversity and then you
22:31have a Chinese guy
22:32sitting in the room,
22:33you have a Senegalese
22:34guy like me sitting in
22:35the room, you have a
22:35Syrian guy sitting in
22:36the room, and then you
22:37have an Algerian sitting
22:38in the room, then you
22:39think you are diverse.
22:41But that is just
22:42physical presence.
22:45As long as you cannot
22:46unlock the brains of
22:47the people so that they
22:48can tell you from their
22:50perspective what they
22:51think is a solution
22:52that you should
22:53adapt, so that they
22:54have a diversity of
22:55opinion on the table,
22:57then diversity is
22:58useless.
23:00And for me, you know,
23:01it is really all about
23:02how to actively engage
23:04to understand, okay,
23:05if I want to do
23:06something with somebody
23:07that is coming from
23:08Shenzhen, what do I
23:11need to understand
23:12about the Chinese
23:12culture?
23:14So, you know,
23:15sometimes us, you
23:16know, we are like,
23:17ah, you know, but we
23:18cannot go to the hot
23:19pot and then eat
23:20Chinese food at
23:21international city.
23:22If the Chinese can eat
23:23it, you can eat it,
23:24because they are human
23:25beings like us.
23:26If the Japanese, they
23:28can eat raw fish, even
23:29if you don't like it,
23:30you can eat it, because
23:31the Japanese are human
23:32beings like us.
23:33If you want to eat
23:34couscous, you go to the
23:35Marocans, then you can
23:36eat couscous.
23:36but if you can integrate
23:37all the different
23:38cultures, and you can
23:41integrate behind the
23:42language, you know, the
23:42real element of the
23:43culture, then you really
23:45have an easier commercial
23:48engagement with the
23:50people, because they are
23:51open to do anything with
23:52you, because they will be
23:53open to have fun with
23:54you, they will open to
23:55laugh with you, they will
23:56also be open to give you
23:57business, but if you are
23:59not open and curious enough
24:00to do that, then it will
24:02be very difficult for you.
24:03So, for me, I believe that,
24:04you know, we learn a lot of
24:05concepts in the
24:06international schools, we
24:08learn a lot of concepts in
24:09marketing, and sales
24:10approach, the one thing
24:12that we don't learn is
24:13that culture is more
24:15important than process,
24:16culture is more important
24:18than theories, and when
24:20you understand cultures,
24:21you have a much easier
24:22penetration of any society
24:24that you want to
24:24integrate with than if you
24:26don't have it.
24:27And, you know, for me,
24:28coming from the village, I
24:31had to integrate in the
24:32capital of Senegal, I had
24:34to integrate in Paris, I
24:35had to integrate in
24:36England, I had to
24:37integrate in Germany, in
24:38Singapore, and many places
24:39that I have been living.
24:41So, and that is the
24:42training that I have needed
24:43to understand that, you
24:45know, if you come from the
24:46village, always remember,
24:47you come from the village.
24:48Don't pretend, now I'm
24:49coming from Paris, or now I'm
24:50coming from New York, so I
24:52know it all, you never know
24:53it all.
24:53Just come like somebody who
24:55comes from the village.
24:55Don't forget your roots, in
24:57a way, and I love it that
24:59you're bringing up culture, and
25:00the podcast itself is
25:02culture, and because I
25:04truly believe this is where
25:06it starts, when you open up
25:07to understanding others, and
25:10you're, you know, you've
25:11invested in yourself to be
25:13accepting of others, this is
25:15where diversity becomes key to
25:17the organization.
25:18You've described unity and
25:20resilience as important
25:22elements of organizational
25:23culture.
25:24How can leaders strengthen
25:26both during periods of
25:27uncertainty, disruption, and
25:30transformation?
25:31This is something that
25:32happens every two, three
25:33years.
25:34We, there is something that
25:35happens globally, and we
25:37have no control over it.
25:38What are, what is your
25:40recipe for managing such
25:43situations?
25:45Calmness.
25:47Calmness.
25:48So, you know, I mean, we
25:50have been witnessing it here
25:52in the UAE.
25:55You know, when Allah has no
25:57decided that you're gone,
25:59you are around.
26:00And as long as you're around,
26:02be calm and do whatever it
26:04takes to make sure that
26:05people are fed, people are
26:07safe, people are having fun,
26:10and people feel like life is
26:13still around.
26:14And for me, as long as we are
26:15breathing, we have an
26:17opportunity to have an impact.
26:19And resilience is really
26:21deciding to go and have an
26:23impact and not sit down and
26:24wait.
26:25you know, and for me, I
26:27always think that life is
26:28very, very short.
26:29And, you know, whatever
26:31incident happened in our
26:32lives, there are bigger
26:34incidents happening to other
26:35people's lives.
26:36So, and whatever challenge
26:38that we think we are facing,
26:39there are bigger challenges
26:40that are being faced by other
26:41people.
26:42So, and if you just, me, I
26:43always think, if you just
26:45remember that 600 million
26:47people don't have electricity,
26:49so they can't talk about
26:50technology, they can't talk
26:51about any of the things that
26:52we utilize to listen to news,
26:54watch movies, et cetera, yet
26:56they survive.
26:58Over 800 million people don't
26:59have access to proper water,
27:01yet they survive.
27:03So, who am I to sit down here
27:04and complain about something?
27:06So, that's what I mean for
27:08me when I look at my
27:08colleagues and we see all the
27:10situations that we do have,
27:11we have a lot of Palestinian
27:12colleagues at Aramax.
27:15I want to say, you know, if
27:16we believe that whatever we
27:17are seeing is tougher than
27:18what is happening in Gaza,
27:20then we can sit down and
27:21check.
27:22But if we know that it is not
27:23tougher, then we should wake up
27:24and go and run.
27:26And I think it is not tougher.
27:27So, you know, I think we have to
27:28wake up and go and run because
27:30we can help many people.
27:32Spot on.
27:34Amadou, do you think
27:38age and wisdom helped you to
27:40this, where you are today?
27:42I mean, the younger Amadou,
27:44did you ever feel like, I can
27:46change destiny?
27:49You know, I'm upset that things
27:51did not happen the way I wanted
27:53them to happen.
27:55Is this something like, if you
27:57were to ask the 20-year-old
27:59Amadou, would you have the
28:01same answer today?
28:03So, I think that when I was
28:04younger, I was a little bit more
28:05stupid and radical.
28:08Wisdom have given me now that
28:09I'm calmer, you know.
28:12But, yeah, since I was a young
28:15kid and I didn't get it from
28:17myself, my grandmother used to
28:19be helping, you know, all the
28:23ladies living in the village when
28:25they were giving birth, etc.
28:26So, I used to hang around with
28:27my grandmother a lot.
28:29and that is also the reason why I
28:31have a girls' education foundation
28:33in the village of my
28:34grandmother.
28:35So, I learned it from my
28:36grandmother and then, so it is
28:39not something that I've taught
28:40myself, I taught, I learned it
28:42from my grandmother and my
28:43grandmother was not an educated
28:44person, she was an illiterate
28:46living in the village.
28:48So, that is the part of the
28:49village that I'm carrying with
28:50me.
28:51You know, you brought up the
28:54girls' education just now.
28:57You have a lot of focus on girls'
29:00education, food security, health
29:01and community development.
29:03How have these experiences
29:07influenced a CEO?
29:11You know, I always think that the
29:12CEO is a title.
29:15The thing is, you know, what is it
29:16that I can do to contribute into my
29:19organization so that our
29:20organization, with all the
29:22colleagues that are walking around
29:23can wake up, walk, go home and be
29:26proud of whatever they're doing.
29:28And that's the same thing for the
29:29community.
29:30I, you know, I always think of what
29:32can I do to make sure that the
29:34people who are living in my
29:35community, after they have fought for
29:38the education or whatsoever, they
29:39can go home and they're proud.
29:41And for me, you know, when you go to
29:43bed with pride, you sleep easy.
29:47If you go to bed with stomach pain
29:49because you didn't do something nice
29:51or good, you don't sleep easy.
29:54And me, I like to sleep easy.
29:56You know, so for me, you know, any of
30:00these activities or, you know, any
30:02activity that I run inside the
30:04organization, so I can't work
30:05Saturday, Sunday, I don't care about
30:06weekends and stuff like that.
30:08because any customer that is not
30:10happy, it doesn't make me feel good.
30:13So that's why if a customer sends me
30:15something at 9.30 p.m., I will not be
30:18going to bed.
30:19I will try to work on fixing it first
30:21before going to bed.
30:22And I think that it is not because of
30:24revenue.
30:25It's not because of customer service.
30:28It's a human being that needs something
30:30and it is not resolved and you need to
30:32help resolve it.
30:33And that's how I look at it.
30:35I don't look at it from a perspective of
30:36or CEO.
30:36I was also, you know, working in the
30:38archives in an organization.
30:39I was working in the Department of
30:41Finance for Receivables or Payables.
30:43So I've been working in different parts of
30:44the organization.
30:45And for me, regardless of where you work,
30:49what is it that is painful for your
30:50stomach and how much energy you put so
30:53that you don't have pain in your stomach
30:55when you go to bed?
30:56And I like to sleep easy.
31:00Shifting gears to, obviously, AI.
31:03You know, it's part of our daily lives now
31:05in every industry and vertical.
31:08How does AI and automation link to the
31:15logistics business and its impact on
31:18employees, their culture?
31:20and how do you see the next five years
31:24happening with AI?
31:27I mean, from my experience, so I was also
31:30programming when I was a bit younger.
31:33I think computer science, data science
31:38nowadays, or AI are a lot of tools that
31:40are being developed to make our life easier.
31:44There are a lot of tools that are being
31:45developed to make sure that we have a
31:47good work-life balance ourselves.
31:50So, you know, you have a lot of AI
31:52applications that are being utilized to
31:54replace things that we do routinely.
31:57So, where is my shipment?
31:59You go, you log into the computer, you go
32:01and look for the shipment information, and
32:03then you send the information, there is
32:05your shipment.
32:06That is something, it is nice if you're
32:09doing it physically, but if you have to
32:10do it a million times, extremely boring.
32:12So, if you have an AI agent that can do
32:15it, it makes life easier for whoever was
32:17doing it.
32:18Same is for your receivables, your
32:20payment that has missed the delay.
32:23A lot of things that we do in life, you
32:25know, in our working life, a lot of
32:27repetitive tasks, and that is something
32:29that automation can help you recover
32:31very fast.
32:32The other side of AI is when you're
32:35researching information.
32:36So, when you and I were studying, you
32:40know, we had the books, thousands of
32:42books, and we had the impression that
32:43we're reading a lot of books, but we
32:44knew that we're not reading 1% of the
32:46books that exist.
32:48Today, AI can read all these books for
32:49you and give you an executive summary of
32:51what is actually taught about a subject.
32:54So, the ease of access to knowledge is
32:57enhanced.
32:59We didn't have that type of ease of
33:01access to knowledge, and I think that the
33:03new generation will have that ease of
33:04access to knowledge, and that is also for
33:06the employees that are working.
33:08The number of boring emails that we have
33:10been writing when we were working in
33:12offices, you know, and then we had to
33:13repeat the mail and repeat the email, now
33:16we can't have an AI agent that is writing
33:18these boring emails.
33:19The number of times that we were writing
33:21these wrong formulations because, you
33:23know, our English was not good enough or
33:25whatsoever, now we have AI agents that
33:27can actually make sure that the English
33:28that you're utilizing is well-formulated,
33:30polite, you know, in all the formats that
33:32are necessary.
33:33So, for me, AI is going to make our
33:36life easy, and it will make the life of
33:39our employees easy.
33:40It will make growing the business easy,
33:43if we use it properly.
33:46So, I don't see AI as a big
33:50hindrance.
33:50Like all the technologies, I think that
33:52every improvement in technology is to
33:54make people's life better.
33:56So, and for me, you know, I always say
33:58in our organization, we are working
34:01towards building a better tomorrow
34:03for everybody.
34:04So, and AI will help us include more
34:06people that have been excluded into the
34:09global market.
34:11I'm going to do our, my last question
34:13to you.
34:16Is there any leadership belief that you
34:19had in your earlier career that today,
34:24when you look back, you would wish to
34:27reconsider?
34:28You would think that, you know, I should
34:31have done something differently.
34:34Well, yeah, sure.
34:35Certainly, you know, so when I was
34:36studying, you know, when you grow up in
34:40the emerging markets and you go and
34:41you do your Bachelor of Business
34:44Administration, your Master of Business
34:45Administration, you learn a lot, you
34:48know, on how to conduct everything with
34:511,500 KPIs.
34:55But there's no learning from those areas
34:59or from engaging with fantastic
35:00consultants that actually teaches you
35:03that there's one KPI that is more
35:05important than all of these BS KPIs.
35:08And that one KPI is really being able to
35:11look and unlock sparkling eyes in the eye
35:14of the colleagues that are standing next
35:16to you.
35:17So for me, what I've learned with the
35:20experience is that the best KPI in the
35:23world is the sparkling eyes of any
35:26colleague that is standing in front of
35:27you or of customers that are standing in
35:29front of you, because that means that
35:30everything is going fine.
35:31If you don't have sparkling eyes, forget
35:33your KPIs.
35:35Anything is not going fine.
35:36I love it.
35:38Sparkling eyes.
35:39Yeah.
35:39Thank you, Amadou, for a very insightful
35:42session today.
35:43Learned a lot.
35:44I hope we see you again soon.
35:46Thank you for having me.
35:47Thank you.
35:47Thank you.
35:47Thank you.
35:48Thank you.
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