- 4 hours ago
Kevin Walker, operator of El Famous Burrito and Extract Juicery, shares how technology is helping him grow his businesses, reach new customers and stay competitive. He explains why working closely with partners like Popmenu has become an important part of building for the future.
Watch now to learn how restaurant technology can drive growth, improve online visibility and help operators build stronger connections with their customers.
Restaurant Influencers is sponsored by:
• Toast All-In-1 Restaurant POS: https://entm.ag/ToastRI
• PepsiCo Foodservice: https://entm.ag/RIPepsico
Watch now to learn how restaurant technology can drive growth, improve online visibility and help operators build stronger connections with their customers.
Restaurant Influencers is sponsored by:
• Toast All-In-1 Restaurant POS: https://entm.ag/ToastRI
• PepsiCo Foodservice: https://entm.ag/RIPepsico
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NewsTranscript
00:0042% of restaurants in the U.S. were unprofitable last year.
00:0442%?
00:06The average profit margin was 2.8%.
00:09And so if you're doing a million top line, you're not bringing home 30 grand.
00:12That is super, super tough.
00:21Welcome to Restaurant Influencers, presented by Entrepreneur.
00:24I'm your host, Sean Walcheff.
00:25This is a Cali BBQ Media production coming to you from the National Restaurant Association show in Chicago.
00:3155,000 restaurant-obsessed professionals, 2,200 vendors.
00:36Our goal with this show is to tell you all of the stories that matter.
00:39Kevin Walker is a Chicago restaurateur.
00:42He is our special guest on today's show.
00:44And I brought the co-founders of Pop Menu, Brendan Sweeney, Tony Roy.
00:49Thank you, gentlemen, for hosting us.
00:51We're going to have an honest conversation about restaurant operations technology.
00:55And the future of where this business is going.
00:57Kevin, tell us about your brands that you run.
00:59Well, thanks for having me today.
01:00So we've got two brands.
01:02The first is El Famous Burrito.
01:03It's a family brand that's about 40 years old.
01:0640 years old.
01:07Congratulations.
01:08That's amazing.
01:08I obviously didn't start that.
01:11You're too young to start that.
01:13So I've been involved for about 10 years.
01:15Okay.
01:15And I've got three locations in the Chicago area.
01:18So Lombard, Glendale Heights, and Wheeling, Illinois.
01:20And then about five years ago, I had kind of a personal passion of juicing smoothies and organic food.
01:27And so I started an organic juicing smoothie bar called Extract Juicery.
01:31Okay.
01:31And we started right in the middle of COVID, which was a crazy time to start.
01:34But it was also a good time when people were thinking about their bodies and their health.
01:37So we've got three locations of that as well.
01:39So Wheeling, Illinois, St. Charles, Illinois.
01:41And then we have one out of state in Minnesota.
01:43So we dine in Minnesota.
01:44Amazing.
01:44Those are our two brands.
01:46How many years have you come to this national restaurant show?
01:49Probably about seven, eight years now.
01:51Seven or eight years.
01:51Yes.
01:52Okay.
01:52And absolutely love the show.
01:53It's always a great time.
01:54And I think I always walk away with something.
01:56I meet a new company that we work with, or I learn something in one of the sessions.
02:00I don't come looking for anything specific, but we always walk away with one or two practical
02:04things that we can do and apply in our business.
02:06So it's been good.
02:06Do you remember when you found out about PopMenu?
02:09I do.
02:10I do.
02:10It was probably about seven and a half years ago, eight years ago almost.
02:14And we met them through one of our vendors that we use.
02:17So they brought them out to meet with us.
02:18It's like, hey, we want you to meet them.
02:19And I got to meet Tony here, actually.
02:22He's everywhere.
02:23Tony is everywhere.
02:24That's ridiculous.
02:25I did.
02:25I remember.
02:26Tony, where are you?
02:28And going to see Ed.
02:29Both of them.
02:29Yeah.
02:30That is amazing.
02:30You're putting the boots on the ground.
02:32You got to do it all, especially in the early days.
02:35Yeah.
02:35Earlier days.
02:36I would argue that you're doing it now, right now.
02:38Like, I mean, the reason why I'm excited always to come back to PopMenu is because
02:43you guys not only have a great team, but that you are curious about people like Kevin,
02:48people like me, people like Pizza King and Ed.
02:50Like, you're here with your customers because technology has never moved faster.
02:54I mean, you guys are a 10-year-old company, right?
02:56Right.
02:5710 years.
02:57Like, look at where we are in 2026 versus 2016.
03:00It's nuts.
03:01It's insane.
03:02Yeah.
03:02I mean, what reflection do you have?
03:05I remember we signed up a group our first year.
03:11Our first, I don't know, right when we came out of Alpha.
03:14So, like, May 2017, we signed up a group in Arizona called Spinano's Pizza.
03:18I don't know if you know.
03:19Anthony Spinano.
03:19Great.
03:20I don't.
03:20Great guy.
03:20Great operation.
03:21Love great operators.
03:23Let's go.
03:23He brought two pizzas into the meeting.
03:25We felt like ballers.
03:26We were like, there's a PowerPoint.
03:27There's a projector.
03:28This is real.
03:30We're a real company.
03:33And he goes, man, my dad's been running this place for 40 years, and I've been a part of it,
03:39you know, for decades.
03:40And he goes, I feel like things have changed more in the last two years than in the previous 10.
03:45And that was 10 years ago.
03:46So now I'm like, I feel like he did.
03:49You know, where it's, I mean, I've been in tech over 25 years, you know, and it's like, it's literally
03:54never moved faster.
03:56And so I'm feeling the, that's not his moment that, you know, that we had back then.
04:01It's, it's really fast.
04:02And I think it's, but that's also why it's so important to be at events like this and spend time
04:08with operators like Kevin.
04:10What are you seeing?
04:10What are you feeling?
04:11How can we best fit in?
04:12Because the thing is, it's usually like zero to a hundred.
04:15It's either you're doing no AI or you're doing everything.
04:17And both of those are equally bad.
04:19They're equally bad.
04:20Cause like I've seen tech companies where it's like, yeah, we converted some developers over to, you know, developer agents.
04:26And we used up all of our tokens and, you know, now they cost as much as a person.
04:30And it's like, as much as the AI companies want us to do everything all at once.
04:35It's like, no, you got to be smart about it, but you also can't not do it.
04:38You know?
04:39And so I think that's my reflection is that it's, it's never been faster.
04:42And that means you got to just stay urgent, stay vigilant, stay curious.
04:46I mean, I think one of the most important things with all the vendors that are here, all the options
04:50that are available, all the startups that are coming to have Kevin, you've put your trust in your business, multiple
04:56businesses, multiple brands in pop menu for that long.
05:00Why, why that long?
05:01Like what have they been, what kind of value have they been adding for your business?
05:04Well, it's, it's amazing.
05:05I think pop menu is constantly evolving, which is helpful.
05:08You know, if not, it's like, all right, cause I was with another company, but they didn't evolve.
05:11So we found pop menu and that's what helps it.
05:13And so, I mean, we've done website redesigns or constantly adding new products and new services that help our business
05:18grow.
05:19And so I think the fact that Brendan, you know, getting out talking with operators and seeing what they need
05:23is huge because now you're providing them what they need.
05:25And so our business has grown with pop menu.
05:27We've done more services with them and our website.
05:30It's better.
05:31It's when we first started, I mean, it looks amazing right now.
05:33Like, and it's grown and evolved over time.
05:35And it was just included.
05:37Like I have an account manager who I meet with on a monthly basis, actually.
05:40And I think that that's pretty cool too, because you don't think about that for like our website, we talk
05:44with them every month.
05:45Like that doesn't usually happen.
05:46And so being able to talk with an account manager and I'm like, and actually, I feel like I may
05:50use them too much.
05:51And so I'm constantly like, cause I'm constantly coming up with new ideas and I'll call my account manager, Veronica.
05:56I'm like, Veronica, I want to do this.
05:57Can you help me build it out?
05:59And she's like, I can't build it, but she's like, let me type this up.
06:02Let me get it over to this ticket, to this person, this person.
06:04And she coordinates it and it happens.
06:06And so like, I'm coming up with new crazy ideas and, and PopMenu has the ability to do it and
06:10get it done for me, which is great.
06:11And so that's why I stick around.
06:12It's just been amazing.
06:13So awesome.
06:14Have you had any uncomfortable conversations with your account manager?
06:18Um, I don't think so.
06:19I think, I think for the most part, we've, we've been pretty good.
06:22So, um, I was, uh, we, I did get switch account managers and I was not happy at first.
06:27Uh, we had an account manager and there was some things that they moved around.
06:30And so, uh, I loved my first account manager.
06:34And so I was a little bit with Veronica when I first got her.
06:36I was kind of a little bit standoffish.
06:38I didn't call her back right away.
06:39Uh, just like, I don't know about this, but she's been amazing.
06:42And, uh, I mean, I almost kind of don't tell him about, I kind of forgot my other account manager
06:45already, kind of forgot about him, but like, she's amazing.
06:48So she stepped in.
06:48So everyone I've worked with at PopMenu has been awesome.
06:51They've got a great staff, great personality.
06:53They work hard.
06:54And so even though I had my favorite in the beginning, Veronica quickly became my new favorite.
06:58So.
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08:12Let's keep that momentum going.
08:16I think one of the most important things, if you're a restaurant owner that's watching this,
08:21it's having those uncomfortable conversations with any of your vendors, whoever you have.
08:26Because if you have the uncomfortable conversation, you give them an opportunity to change it, to fix it.
08:32I mean, that's why these guys are here.
08:33That's why they show up.
08:34If everything was comfortable, we'd all have profitable businesses.
08:37It would be easy.
08:38We'd scale our businesses, no problem, very easy.
08:40But it's not.
08:41It's a hard business.
08:42And to the point of how quick things are changing, you guys have to be willing to put in work.
08:48You have to be willing to have those uncomfortable conversations.
08:53Catering?
08:55Absolutely.
08:55You do catering with Pop Menu.
08:57Yes.
08:57What have you learned about catering?
08:59So catering, number one, is huge for us.
09:01You know, and I love catering mainly because it is a great opportunity to just expand your business quickly.
09:06Like, instead of doing, I can do one burrito at a time, or I can do, you know, a tray
09:10and serve 100 people all at once.
09:13You get paid up front.
09:14Yeah, you get paid up front.
09:15And it doesn't matter how many people come.
09:17You get guaranteed 100 people are going to go into the catering app.
09:20And then my hope is to turn that 100 people into in-store traffic as well.
09:24Yes.
09:24I mean, catering is good on both sides.
09:26But Pop Menu has been great because it's helped me.
09:27So I actually worked with my account manager, and we did an SEO optimization of our site.
09:32And it was crazy.
09:33Like, I mean, like, I can't even make this stuff up.
09:35Like, within two weeks, like, we literally got $10,000 of catering from our SEO optimization.
09:39And I know it because I was like, I added a site to, I like to track things.
09:43So I added a little link that says, how did you find out about us?
09:46And it was like, Google, Google, Google, Google, Google, Google.
09:48And they started rolling in.
09:49There's a lady who, she was in Arizona.
09:52She placed an order from us.
09:54She had never met us before.
09:56And literally, like, it was like 30, 40 minutes from our store.
09:59Like, it was downtown Chicago.
10:00We're in the suburbs.
10:01I'm like, between there and Lombard, there's got to be hundreds, if not thousands, of Mexican restaurants that she could
10:06have ordered from.
10:08You know, we've got a 40-year-old brand.
10:09Our food's really good.
10:11But she doesn't know that.
10:12She's in Arizona.
10:13She picked us because we showed up first.
10:15Like, she picked us because of the optimization of our SEO.
10:17And it literally was right after we finished our optimization.
10:20It was crazy.
10:21I was blown away.
10:23And so, I mean, yesterday, I went home.
10:25I had five inquiries that came in, again, from Google.
10:28That's awesome.
10:28And so, I'm just super excited about that because I'm trying to scale our business.
10:32And if we can do that, and I'm excited to partner with them.
10:35I don't know SEO.
10:36Like, I can throw out a couple of the buzzwords.
10:38Like, don't get me too in detail.
10:39Can I throw out a buzzword?
10:40Can I throw out AEO?
10:42Yeah.
10:42Is that the thing?
10:43It's the same.
10:44What are the other buzzwords?
10:46Is it answer engine optimization?
10:48Is that what it is?
10:49People are making it up.
10:50It's all marketing.
10:51It's all marketing.
10:52Optimization.
10:53I don't know.
10:54I have seen a bunch of different, yeah.
10:56So, we want to know.
10:57Kevin and I want to know from you, gentlemen.
10:59How do we show up in ChatGPT results and Gemini results and Cloud results?
11:04It's mostly the same.
11:05It's mostly how much data do you have on your site?
11:08How is it structured?
11:09Is it something that's easily ingestible, either by Google or by, you know, some model?
11:14And it's also keeping it fresh.
11:16Yeah.
11:16Like, that is a big part of it.
11:17And so, the good thing is you shouldn't have to do anything different and extra compared
11:22to SEO, and you mostly don't.
11:23There are other things happening.
11:25You know, I get calls from, you know, open AI people.
11:28We want to partner in this and that and all this.
11:29I still, we're exploring all those things, but I still think, you got to think of it,
11:34it is a third party still.
11:35Yeah.
11:35You know what I mean?
11:36Yeah.
11:36We're a tool.
11:37They're a third party.
11:38They want to do transactions in the platform.
11:40There's going to be all the normal kind of parameters and considerations you have with
11:43third party.
11:44And so, you know, I think it's just doing what you're already doing to optimize for SEO is
11:51a big part of it.
11:53But I also, I want to come back to something that I think is a real dynamic that I would
11:57love restaurants to think about that Kevin just mentioned.
12:01And that is, he doesn't have to have hard conversations, mostly because he's really engaged.
12:05Yeah, that's true.
12:06And it's a hard work thing.
12:08That's true.
12:08Thank you for bringing that up.
12:09I don't criticize restaurants for it.
12:09But it's like, you have to make time for this stuff.
12:12And usually when we have hard conversations, it's because the restaurant's like, no, I
12:15didn't use the email tool.
12:17No, I didn't send out a text.
12:18No, I didn't do this and that.
12:19And yes, it is our job to make that easier and easier and easier.
12:22Yep.
12:23Remove the friction.
12:24Make it more consistent.
12:25Make it more personalized.
12:25You shouldn't have to do as much.
12:27But if you're not thinking about it and you're not, I love the thing you said, like connect
12:31the catering to your normal business.
12:33And it's like, we have tools to help you do that, right?
12:35Hey, you did a catering order.
12:37You can do a blast email to them and give them an offer.
12:41Unfortunately, I mean, a lot of people got into this business.
12:44All of them got into this business because they wanted to do hospitality and make food and
12:47serve people.
12:48And that's the primary thing people want to do.
12:50You either have to do this kind of engagement with, with really with your community and
12:55your audience, or you have to have somebody do it or you're not going to make it.
12:59Yep.
12:59And so one of the biggest things I see is like, man, 42% of restaurants in the U.S.
13:04were
13:04unprofitable last year.
13:06The average 42%, the average profit margin was 2.8%.
13:10And so if you're doing a million top line, you're not bringing home 30 grand.
13:14That is super, super tough.
13:16And so how do you do something about that?
13:19You're not just going to like cook your way out of it.
13:21You have to bring more people in.
13:23You have to get people back in often.
13:25And so you have to think about that and engage in tools.
13:27And so, but it shouldn't be hard.
13:29And so we make it easier and easier to where you, you should have an idea and we should
13:33execute it for you.
13:34That's how it should work.
13:35But I do think where we see people fall down and look, that 2.8% average profitability,
13:41you know that that's a wide, the average is in the middle, but it's like, there's a lot
13:44of people who are, who are obviously unprofitable.
13:47And then there are people who are doing really well.
13:49And the people who are doing well are taking care of the outreach to their community like
13:54this.
13:55And they're, they're making sure they're putting the latest dish, the latest special,
13:58the latest event, the latest, you know, picture of an atmosphere or whatever to stay
14:02top of mind with people.
14:03Because man, all of us as consumers are so distracted and our attention is so, you know,
14:09people are picking at it from left to right.
14:11You got to stay in the mix.
14:12You have to, or you'll fail.
14:13Did you know that Toast powers over 140,000 restaurants across the United States, Canada
14:20and UK?
14:21It's an incredible company.
14:23I'm on the Toast customer advisory board.
14:24They are proud sponsors of this show, Restaurant Influencers.
14:27We couldn't do it without their support.
14:29They power our barbecue restaurants in San Diego.
14:32If you have questions about Toast, if you're thinking about bringing Toast on to be your primary
14:38technology partner at your restaurants, please reach out to me.
14:41I'm happy to get a local Toast representative to take care of you.
14:45You can reach me at SeanPyWalcheff on Instagram.
14:48Once again, thank you to Toast for believing in the power of technology, the power of storytelling,
14:53the power of hospitality.
14:55Back to the show.
14:56How are you guys helping restaurants?
14:59People are spending less this year than they were last year.
15:02What is PodMenu doing to help Kevin and me?
15:04Well, I think the first thing is you just think about it in like really elementary terms.
15:08If Brennan's going out to eat or ordering five times a week, maybe now it's three or
15:12four.
15:13So the first thing is you got to think about how do I make sure I'm one of those three
15:16or four?
15:16If you do that, like we were talking about, is make sure that your brand is out there
15:19in a consistent way across multiple channels and that when you have somebody that comes
15:24to your front door or your website, you have an opportunity to engage with them so they
15:27can join their community of followers.
15:29So I think if they're emphatic about being consistent with the messaging, being emphatic about capturing
15:34the follower, when they find them, they have that connection point, then that allows me
15:38to know things about Kev, allows me to remarket him and get him to come back.
15:42If you don't have something that's dynamic where you make it easy for someone to engage
15:45with you or give you information or sign up to join your community, it's hard to get
15:49them to come back faster, if at all.
15:51And I think restaurants typically are great at getting people to them because they don't
15:54understand things like Google.
15:56They're not as invested as Kev is.
15:57I think they're far worse oftentimes than getting people back because they don't know who they
16:01are, they don't know their preferences, they don't know how to communicate with them, and
16:04then they don't have tools that are doing it in an automated fashion.
16:07So I think we try and solve for all of that by one, optimizing for search.
16:12Rule one, drive as much traffic to them as possible.
16:15Two, have a differentiated experience and more of them converting the transaction path and
16:19allow you to, they can engage with you.
16:21So if I learn a little bit more about him, my marketing is tailor-made to him.
16:25And so rule number three is get him to come back faster and more abundantly over time.
16:29And you do that by making it a dynamic experience.
16:31So I think that's how we're solving it, not just for Kevin, but all of our clients.
16:35Amazing.
16:35And I would also say like the mistakes I see people make are, like I said about AI, it's
16:39zero or a hundred.
16:40And it's like, there are people who are not doing anything at all.
16:43And then there are people who are like, I've got this email process segmentation where,
16:49you know, it needs to be perfect and it needs to be super complicated and this and that.
16:53I see as many people fail at that as not doing it at all.
16:56And so I think just saying it doesn't have to be perfect, but it needs to be consistent.
17:02It doesn't have to be every single message, you know, okay, this person did a catering
17:07and then they did a reservation that did this and that.
17:09And so I have to have a particular message for them.
17:11I think I see as many people doing that or having their team do that as I do, you know,
17:15doing nothing.
17:16And I think it's just, you got to plug in, you got to be consistent.
17:20You got to let the systems do as much work as possible because this one ends up being
17:24really expensive and then people give up because they're like, this isn't generating
17:27a return.
17:28So Kevin, it's very rare that restaurant owners like me and you get to sit with the founders
17:33of the tech companies that we're working with.
17:35I'm going to let you ask them the most difficult question you want to ask.
17:40Wide open, whatever question you want, and we're holding them accountable because it's
17:43recorded.
17:43Perfect.
17:44I actually had a question too.
17:45So you started talking about AI.
17:47If there was like one or two things that you would say, these are the key things because
17:50you said some people are at zero, some people are at a hundred.
17:52But somewhere in between is where we should be.
17:55If there was one or two things that we should be doing in AI as a restaurant owner and operator,
17:59what would those two things be?
18:01Well, I mean, I think the easiest thing is generating content.
18:07But I would say the number one thing is if you're not using a system like PopMenu that's
18:12doing a lot of it for you, go a couple steps further in your prompt, you know, when you're
18:17creating whatever content it is.
18:19Uh, we've talked about it before where it's like 200 restaurants could go make a taco
18:23Tuesday, you know, uh, uh, ask Chad GVT to make that email for them.
18:29Pretty much going to be really similar.
18:31Yeah.
18:31Now, if you know something about, you know, your, your followers, maybe they have a favorite
18:35burrito or whatever it is, and you can incorporate that into the prompt.
18:39I can't, I can't emphasize how much that's setting you apart.
18:43If you know two or three things about them, Hey, they, they like this burrito and they're,
18:48you know, um, I know this is a little bit counter to what I just said, but one or two
18:52things
18:53like they, they also, you know, do delivery, you know, versus coming on prem.
18:57Now you've got like a multi-step differentiation from the email everyone else is going to send
19:03them.
19:04And so I think, you know, the prompts are key and, and kind of utilizing that a bit more
19:10and not just doing the most basic thing.
19:12Cause man, we're all, everyone can see the slot.
19:15Everyone can see, I know that this is taking it the extra step where someone's like could
19:20be automated, but it feels personalized.
19:22I think that's one piece of advice I'd have.
19:24What about you, Tony?
19:25Over to you.
19:25You basically took it from me.
19:27I think, again, I think it's an opportunity for us.
19:30I said it before in an earlier talk, but, um, it's a lot of noise.
19:34Yep.
19:34And so I think it's an opportunity for us to consult with people like Kev to simplify
19:38it for them.
19:38I do think things like content creation, being a little bit deeper in the prompting.
19:42So it's a bit more specific and those things will make any restaurant a bit healthier
19:45overnight.
19:46Yeah.
19:46I mean, so the biggest thing is learn and experiment and then you'll gradually becomes less scary and
19:51then you'll find other ways to do it.
19:52Certainly we'd lean into a partner like PopMenu or somebody that has incorporated it into the
19:57platform so they don't have to go out and research everything on the room because independent
20:00operators are just so busy.
20:02Um, so find a trusted partner, even if you don't work with PopMenu, we're always happy
20:06to consult with you on that.
20:07Um, yeah, that's what I would say.
20:09I would say the other point is just, uh, gather as much consumer data as you can, because
20:15there's no telling how useful it's going to be.
20:18It's just, it's going to be useful.
20:19So when we started almost 10 years ago, we provided engagement points in the menu that
20:24were mainly to gather first party reviews, first party ratings, things like that.
20:28And it was just like, well, this will help people, you know, other people, when they're
20:32looking at the menu, say this is the most popular dish or whatever.
20:34What we didn't know was AF is going to come and that the data was like, that's actually
20:38Sean's preference data from the top of the funnel where it's like, as he's walked through
20:42the menu, he's looked at these dishes, he's favorited these, he's reviewed these, he's
20:46shared these, that becomes a ton of information you actually can't get from any other system.
20:51We're making use of some of that now.
20:53And it's only going to explode because then you can use automation to, you know, uh, make,
20:58make really personalized offers without having to do all that work.
21:01Yeah.
21:02Well, if you guys are watching this, if you're listening to this, please come to this show,
21:06come to the national restaurant show.
21:07Thank you to Informa for allowing us to come and tell stories that matter from the show.
21:11Please come and visit Kevin's restaurants.
21:13We're going to put links to your social handles where they can find you, your pop menu website.
21:18Yes.
21:18Um, we'll put links to pop menu here so you can reach out to the team, learn more about
21:22AEO, SEO, and all of the things.
21:25Uh, we appreciate the hospitality.
21:27I'm weirdly available at Sean P.
21:29Walchef, Instagram, LinkedIn, all the platforms.
21:31Uh, we appreciate you as always stay curious, get involved, and don't be afraid to ask for
21:36help.
21:36We'll catch you guys next episode.
21:38Appreciate you gentlemen.
21:39Nice pleasure.
21:44Thank you for listening.
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21:48You're part of the tribe.
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22:23We would love to work with you and your growing brand on digital storytelling.
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22:29Walchef on Instagram.
22:30I'm weirdly available.
22:31Stay curious, get involved, and don't be afraid to ask for help.
22:34We'll catch you next episode.
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