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HELLO! spoke to Lisa Snowdon about her experiences, seeking her advice on how to ask for help if you need it
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00:00In this short video series in the lead up to World Menopause Day, I will be meeting three
00:04game-changing women to hear all about their experiences in this area, to ask for their
00:10tips and gain some brilliant insight and advice for us all. So whether you're a manager, an
00:15employee or a woman going through this time of life, stay tuned. I've got your book right here
00:21with lots of pages turned down because there is so much in it. How did your perimenopause journey
00:28begin? So my journey began almost 10 years ago. So I was in my early 40s and I was at
00:40a time when
00:40I hadn't ever heard the word perimenopause. So it wasn't on my radar at all. It wasn't anything that
00:46I'd learned in school. It wasn't a word that I knew. It wasn't a phase or a stage in a
00:51woman's life that
00:52I understood either. I always knew that the menopause was something that I would potentially
00:58experience, but I wasn't sure when that was going to be. I did kind of ignorantly think that that was
01:04going to be really, really far off in the future. And a menopausal woman in my mind didn't look like
01:10the ladies I now know to be menopausal and myself as well. It was somebody who was very frail,
01:16much, much older. But this is all due to the fact that there just wasn't any information. There
01:23wasn't any education. So the beginning, my symptoms looking back now, it was anxiety. It was really low
01:32mood, dark mood. I used to burst into tears really easily. I couldn't process stress. Certain things
01:39that I used to be able to do became near impossible. I used to be kind of scared some days
01:45to leave the
01:45house. I was just really kind of a lot of fear, a lot of panic, a lot of just no
01:52confidence in
01:53myself. And they were the kind of beginning symptoms. And so I went to the doctor and I kind
01:58of poured my heart out, burst into tears. The poor guy just looked at me like, oh my God,
02:03what am I going to do with this woman? And he prescribed me antidepressants. And, you know,
02:08looking back now, I can kind of see where he was coming from because I was sort of like a
02:13little,
02:14I was completely, you know, just in bits. And I wasn't explaining myself very clearly.
02:20And, you know, I think that's why I'm so passionate about talking about this time in our lives and us
02:26ladies being prepared and not scared about the pre-menopause and menopause. Because you do kind
02:31of need to understand or recognize what's happening to you, which I of course didn't. If I'd had the
02:35information to say, hang on a minute, this is really out of character for me. I don't usually feel
02:39like this. I'm usually quite upbeat. And yes, you know, there are things that get you down. And of
02:44course, and not every day is perfect. And like you said, you know, world events and life and, you
02:51know, seeing other people suffering that that all gets to us and crushes our spirit as well. But it
02:56was, I couldn't articulate what was happening. So I took the antidepressants and I went off home,
03:02but I knew deep inside that that wasn't what I needed. Now, the thing that's clever about
03:07pre-menopause, I found, is it's quite sneaky. And it kind of shift shapes into different symptoms.
03:12So once I'd sort of got over the sort of sadness, the depression and sort of done a few things
03:18to
03:18try and make myself feel better, then my monthly cycle started to go all over the place. And that
03:23should have been a big telltale sign for me. You know, rather than a 28 day cycle, it went to
03:2723 days,
03:28then it went to 14 days, and I was bleeding every other day. And it was heavy. It was heavy,
03:33like, almost debilitating pain, and so heavy that I couldn't leave the house some days. It was,
03:40you know, hideous. And I went to a gynecologist about it. And even she who, she didn't even
03:46mention that this could be hormonal changes, or even the word perimenopause was never even
03:51mentioned in that conversation. So again, the next few years, I kind of struggled on and didn't know
03:56and sort of tried to navigate it myself. And then I started to get rages, and anger, and then hot
04:02flushes, and sweats, and night sweats, and all that sort of stuff. And so that was kind of
04:07up and down roller coaster of symptoms for about six, seven, eight years. So yeah, it was,
04:15it was tricky. And, you know, you hear about this so much now from women, you know, this,
04:20these are, these are quite common symptoms. And we all now know now that there's about 60 and counting,
04:25and the estrogen is responsible for so much. Hormones are responsible for so much, you know,
04:30it's like, I think our whole lives have been kind of ruled by our hormones, and we've just had to
04:34deal with it. But it got to this stage where I couldn't deal with it anymore. I just felt absolutely
04:39hideous. And I went to a couple of different doctors, it was finally identified that it was
04:44perimenopause. I was given some progesterone cream, which I now know wasn't what I needed.
04:51And that's why I wrote the book, because I want to fast track women's diagnosis, I want them to get
04:56the
04:56right help, know where to go and understand when to seek help. And, you know, when to come and what
05:02to look for in these changes in their body as well. Because it took me a long time to work
05:06it out. And
05:06I wasted a lot of time, a lot of money. And, you know, I could have lost my job because
05:11some days I
05:12didn't want to work. And I could have lost my partner because I was absolutely horrible and
05:15hideous to him. So yeah, that was my kind of journey over the last 10 years, 19 years.
05:20Wow. And there's so much there, isn't there? I mean, the antidepressants as well, we hear that
05:26quite a lot, certainly in my friendship circle, that's happened to many women. Did you find that
05:31they helped you at all? And how were you able to sort of disentangle what could be going on? Because
05:38with so many symptoms, I think that's why women often feel so overwhelmed. It's like, where do you
05:43begin? Which one do you take the most seriously? Is it depression on one hand, you know, is how do
05:49you
05:50join the dots and pull it all together? Do you think that was an age thing perhaps as well? Why
05:55the doctor went that route initially? Well, I don't know why he went that. I kind of understand. I was
06:02like a woman possessed. I just burst into tears and I just couldn't express what was happening. So I think
06:07I did look like somebody who was displaying signs of depression. And so, you know, I'm not NHS bashing at
06:14all. We now know lots more. And also antidepressants, there is a place for them. This
06:21isn't a bad thing. You know, if you need them, you absolutely should take them and they can sit
06:25really well. I'm sure Niggat will back me up with HRT if you did want to take them together. It's
06:31not
06:31a sign of weakness to ask for help. But I knew I took them, but it wasn't really doing anything.
06:38It
06:39just didn't help. And it just happened by accident that I was on holiday with George. It was one of
06:44our first holidays together and I'd forgotten to pack them with me, my pills, my antidepressants.
06:49So I had three pills left on a week's trip. And obviously you have to be careful when you're coming
06:56off medication. You have to do it properly. But I didn't have my pills with me. So I had to
07:01somehow
07:02wean myself off. And so I did. And luckily it was all safely done and I was fine. There were
07:09no kind
07:09of weird contraindications or side effects. But that was for me, the decider that that wasn't what
07:14I needed because it just didn't even scratch the surface of my sadness or anything like that.
07:20And George was very, very understanding. He was like, I honestly just don't think it's that.
07:25I think it's something else. Because I'd have these panics and I'd be flipping out. And it wasn't just
07:31like, oh, I'm really low. I don't want to get up and go to work. It was so many other
07:35things as
07:35well. And looking back now, it's kind of classic perimenopause symptoms for us ladies. So that's
07:41kind of how it worked out. That's how I unpicked what was happening. And it was kind of, it was
07:45like
07:45fate. I just left my pills by mistake and came off them. And, you know, then my hellish journey
07:52continued. How would you recommend that a woman could advocate for herself within the healthcare
07:57system? I mean, is it a good idea? Did you sort of track your symptoms over a period of time
08:03so that
08:04you could go to the doctor with a clearer sense of what it could be?
08:08Well, looking back now, that's exactly what I should have done. But I didn't know what was
08:14happening. And I think when you're knee deep in perimenopausal symptoms, it seems like, oh,
08:18in hindsight, I should have done that. But you can't think straight half the time. You know,
08:23you're barely sleeping. You can't put one foot in front of the other, let alone go,
08:26oh, I'm going to make really logical, rational decisions. Like all of that common sense goes out
08:31the window. So that's why I always say to write down your cycles, start listening to your body,
08:39start writing down symptoms that you experience, whether it's sleep deprivation, hair changes,
08:45skin changes, anything, just write it down. Keep a diary, keep a journal of what's happening.
08:51And then when you do go to the doctor, you're armed with this list of information of your cycles,
08:57count your days, how long are you bleeding? How are they changing? Are they really light? Are
09:01they really heavy? Just so that you are then prepared when you go into the doctor's surgery,
09:06and you can say, could this potentially be my hormones? Obviously rule out other things. But
09:11this is kind of what's happening. This is my cycle. These are my symptoms. So that's how I always now
09:17tell women to kind of go forward and get and get the help that they need. But we have to
09:21kind of
09:22take responsibility for ourselves in that way and be organized. And also speaking to the person that
09:28is the menopause expert within your practice, because there's a lot of, you know, you could get
09:32passed around doctors that maybe don't have that expertise, because how can they, you know, there's so
09:37much out there for GPs, you know, to be experts in that getting to speak to the right person at
09:45the
09:45practice seems to help too. So what did real meaningful help for menopause look like for you?
09:53Conversation. That was huge. Understanding that I wasn't alone, sharing that with my community.
10:01All of us kind of just throwing our different issues, symptoms, problems into the mix. And
10:11just knowing that you're not alone. I think that that for me was such a comfort. And I know for
10:16sure that that helped my community too. We just all connected much on a much deeper level. And it
10:21would just you just suddenly just feel like there's a weight lifted from your shoulders. And you're like,
10:25I'm not going mad. Okay, I okay, I can feel like myself again. You know, I know, I need I
10:31know what
10:31I need to do to get the help. Sharing is caring as far as like explaining and sharing your symptoms
10:36with other people. And that's a lifeline. That's what you need. It's about being able to talk to
10:42people. And then once you do that, you can then communicate with your loved ones and your family
10:46members and your work colleagues. And you can kind of get more of a grasp and a kind of handle
10:50on what's
10:51happening. And how you want to communicate that to other people to kind of try and make them understand
10:56that this is just a little blip, just a little transition. I just need a little bit of extra help
11:00at the moment, a little bit of patience, a little bit of time. And that's literally all it is. But
11:05just
11:06knowing that you're not alone is the first step. And that big hug, even from a stranger where you're
11:11just like, Oh, my God, and you know, your shoulder to cry on if you need it.
11:16Yeah, and your book has all of that kind of warmth. It really does feel like you're best friends with
11:21Lisa, and you're having a nice, lovely, supportive chat with her. It's such a lovely, supportive read
11:27and extremely honest, because it was HRT that helped you, wasn't it?
11:32Oh, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, game changer.
11:36How did you get that prescribed?
11:39In the end, it was my fourth doctor. And it was Dr. Potter, Naomi, who reached out to me on
11:45Instagram.
11:45And I think I'd written a post that said hot hashtag hot flushes. And I think she was like,
11:49Oh, I think she's talking about the menopause. And so she slid into my DMs, little sneaky slider on
11:55into DMs. And, and she reached out and we started talking and I explained what happened and the
12:00doctors and what they prescribed to me. And she was like, Oh, you need estrogen, you absolutely need
12:06estrogen. I was like, nobody's offered me estrogen. What is going on? So it was it was her it was
12:13Naomi.
12:14And we can we started our midweek menopause madness chats. And that again, grew the community
12:18every day's a school day when it comes to pre menopause and menopause and hormones and symptoms
12:23and HRT and just learning about the body and how, you know, us ladies need to kind of really look
12:29after ourselves. But HRT was amazing, but it isn't a silver bullet. It's not like you take HRT and then
12:35everything's perfect. You know, you still need to make lifestyle changes. And look after yourself
12:43even more so.
12:44And did you have to play around with your doses of HRT? Did you start on something and then,
12:50you know, change that over time?
12:53Yeah, absolutely. It's it's it. It's not one size fits all. And you have to do you do have to
12:58tweak
12:59it, you have to keep an eye on it. But you also have to be patient with it. You know,
13:02it's not going
13:02to work overnight. So I think it's just initially I do the spray. So it was like start with one
13:08spray,
13:09then start with two and then slowly increase it. And but slowly and be patient. It's not a miracle.
13:17You know, you just need to let the body sort of start to rebalance and start to, you know, see
13:21if you
13:21absorb it anyway, because everybody's different. Everybody's skin's different. That's why that's what
13:26I've learned. And there's different products that you can use as well gels and sprays and patches and
13:30pills and all that kind of thing. So it's a very individual journey. And it's very individual process
13:36as well. But my one tip would be just be patient. Don't be too flippant. If something if you don't
13:43feel
13:43any results immediately or any changes, you just have to go slowly. And I was also using uterogestron,
13:50the progesterone orally. And after about five months, I did notice that I was very puffy and very swollen.
13:57And so we decided to use it vaginally, which is off license, but certain doctors can prescribe it.
14:05You have to ask your doctor, though. It can't just be you deciding it. And so at each step of
14:09the way
14:09with your HRT, it has to be in line with what your doctor recommends. It's not just something that you
14:15should be getting from a friend or getting from some unorthodox source. You know, it needs to be
14:21monitored. It's, you know, it's, it's still something that is, you know, you have to be
14:25careful, not careful, but you have to, you know, you just can't just be like borrowing your mate's
14:31estrogen. It has to be prescribed by your doctor. And now I take testosterone.
14:34It's not a one size. No, no, it's not. And I know when there was all these shortages that,
14:39you know, people were like meeting in car parks and being like, here's some of my HRT. It was like
14:43the HRT dealers, but you have to be, you have to be careful.
14:47I know. I was, I was low on progesterone. I was kind of tempted to do that too.
14:53Well, listen, I wouldn't have blamed you because a lot of people were like,
14:55has anybody got any spare progesterone? You know, and if you have got a packet and it's what you
15:00would normally take, and then your friend had extra, then I'm sure that that's fine. But yeah,
15:05I guess it's just, it's not, it's not changing brands and it's not changing regimes. I guess
15:10that would be the, my main advice. So the testosterone, when did that come in for you?
15:15Probably about four months into being on my estrogen. I just felt like I needed something else.
15:23I was obviously also concerned about libido and not having that kind of
15:29feeling of vova voom anymore. But I think that I perhaps put too much faith in testosterone,
15:38like it was going to just turn me into a 16 year old girl again.
15:44It doesn't. I'm like, where's the libido? I'm still searching. It's not really,
15:51it hasn't really chopped back to where I want it to. But, um, I mean, how honest can I be
15:58on this
15:58podcast, Rosie? You can be really honest, please do. I think it's so important. We have honest chats.
16:05Sex life is fine. Vaginal dryness is fine. Exactly. Like we, that's the thing. These are all things that
16:11women are going through. It's real, right? So I know that a lot of women, like we think, right,
16:16we want testosterone. We want to be swinging from the chandeliers again. We want to have like amazing
16:20orgasms and, you know, a really healthy sex life. And you know what, when I was in my perimenopausal
16:25years, my, I couldn't orgasm, like I just couldn't. But now, even though I don't have many orgasms,
16:33the quality is better. And I truly believe that's down to the testosterone. So where I'm not like
16:38rampant. I heard that about orgasming. Yeah. I'm not rampant for it. But when I do, the quality's
16:44there again. And that's what's really great. So there's silver linings with testosterone, but it's not
16:49just about libido. And it gets obviously much more knowledgeable, hashtag the knowledge,
16:57with HRT. But I know that it does sometimes help with, if you're still having brain fog,
17:04and if you're having kind of low energy, it helps just to give you that little bit more
17:08joie de vivre and that sort of more oomph, which helps with obviously working out and muscles and
17:13getting stronger again. So I think sometimes it is the missing piece of the puzzle. But I think
17:17that we shouldn't put too much emphasis on it, and that women should panic if they can't get it.
17:22Because I know that there's a big like, I need testosterone. Why do you need testosterone? Well,
17:26I just think I need it. And I'm like, but you need to know why you need it. You know
17:29what I mean?
17:29You don't just take it, because you think you need it. So I think women need to do a bit
17:34of
17:34homework and kind of dig deep. And also, it's bloody expensive. So don't take it unless you need to.
17:39So, so expensive. Wow. Okay. But and alongside that, so you've got your oestrogen, the progesterone,
17:47testosterone, and you know, finding that in the, you know, the right measures that are going to suit
17:52you individually is absolutely key. But what about additional supplements? Do you take sort of other
17:58supplements to help keep other elements of your menopause in check? I take everything, Rosie,
18:03you know me, I'm such a like, which are you? Well, I do. I do watch your Instagram. I know
18:09you're very, very up on lots of different things. I take my collagen, I take my Amigas, I take
18:17magnesium to go to sleep. I take melatonin some days when I can't sleep 5-HTP. I take the Lima
18:26supplements. Yeah, I rattle. If you shake me, I rattle. Absolutely. And then I also make my smoothies,
18:33and I put different, you know, sort of adaptogens in. So ashwagandha and things like that as well.
18:40Yeah, and I eat really well, like I'm really kind of into my food. And I think we do do
18:45need to
18:45nourish ourselves at this time in our lives and really look at our diet and what we're consuming.
18:52Well, watching your Instagram is so brilliant. And it really is a place to go if you're listening to
18:58this podcast, and you are thinking that you could be sort of experiencing some of the symptoms,
19:02because Lisa, you have shown it all. And I remember there have been times when I've watched
19:07your Instagram, and you've been upset or having a wobbly day, you know, and you've shown those sort
19:12of darker times, as well as celebrating the good times. Yeah, because often we do hear so much,
19:19don't we only about the challenges. Because perhaps in those moments, you know, you know,
19:25there's more scaremongering, perhaps online and, and women are more likely to share those than the
19:31really, really good times when the hormones are in check. Why did you feel it was important to show
19:37those down days, and the difficult times?
19:40Um, I've just always been really real and honest and transparent about what I've been through,
19:47because I think it's important. And I think sometimes social media can just be this perfect
19:51polished image or life that isn't real. And I think it's really, it's, it's, it's not,
19:59it's not fair, because I think a lot of us, if we are feeling a bit crap in ourselves,
20:02we might go to social media, and then we can't help but compare and then feel completely, um,
20:08even more lost when you sort of think, Oh, God, I'm really underachieving. And I'm,
20:12why do I feel like crap? And look at her life, it's amazing. So I think it's really good to
20:16show
20:16that light and that shade, you know, of life. And it's not always perfect. And it's not, and it
20:23shouldn't be because life is about ups and downs. And that's when you do truly get to appreciate the
20:28good times and have those moments of gratitude. And, you know, I think it's just important to be
20:34honest about what's happening. The one thing I'm scared of is that younger women will start to get
20:40scared about the menopause and perimenopause, because there is so much more conversation about
20:44it. But I always say we have to be prepared and not scared. And that's kind of my, my kind
20:49of mantra
20:50now for women. Um, you know, we do know so much more. So we can be armed with the information
20:55and be
20:55like, hang on a minute, if your friend's going through something, or if she's feeling a bit low,
20:59or, you know, if you could, you can have that conversation, be like, what about your cycles?
21:03What's happening there, you know, and you can just start to kind of work it through together and be
21:07aware and prepared. Um, so yeah, I just think it's, it's, it's powerful that we're able to share and
21:13that there's so much more information out there.
21:16And you say very clearly, I love the intro to your book when you talk about, I promise it will
21:21be
21:21okay, you know, in the end, and the title of it just getting started as well, has seeing the
21:27menopause as the beginning of something wonderful. Um, so often, you know, we do hear about the
21:33difficult times, but that is such a positive message that this next chapter can be one that
21:39is more fulfilling, and healthier, and more exciting than you could possibly have imagined.
21:45Yeah, it's a book about hope, ultimately, because it does seem like doom and gloom. But actually,
21:49once you get a handle on everything, and you know what's happening, you know how to kind
21:55of hack your hormones a little bit more, hack your health a bit more, um, make those changes,
22:00you can literally just grab life by the balls and jump in, because that's why I called it
22:04just getting started. I was 50 when I wrote the book, and I was just like, all those horrible
22:10years behind me, I feel really empowered now. I feel like what's next? You know, those 50 years
22:15have gone quickly, the next 50 are going to go even quicker. Like, what is out there
22:20that I haven't done? What have I been too scared to do? Um, you know, and I think it's
22:24a really lovely time for you to connect with yourself, and to learn to love yourself more
22:29than ever before, and put yourself at the top of that list, and do all those things that
22:33scare you, and go on all those trips that you've always wanted to do, and maybe change
22:37your career, or write a book, or, you know, just just do these kind of like bucket list
22:42things, and I think it's really empowering, and it is our second spring as Chinese, as
22:46the Chinese, um, medicine that celebrates this time in a life, in a woman's life as
22:51their second spring, so that's empowering, and that's like this new lease of life to
22:54do whatever you want to do.
22:57Yeah, so a bit of reframing there. Now, I just do want to go back quickly to, you mentioned
23:02struggling at work, and obviously at Hello, along with Wellbeing of Women, we launched the
23:07Menopause Workplace Pledge in 2019, um, and the menopause is under the spotlight a lot
23:13this month, um, as we near the end of Menopause Awareness Month. What would you say to somebody
23:18who feels that they're struggling to fulfil their work commitments, and they suspect that
23:22could be to do with their perimenopause or menopause symptoms?
23:26Well, it is really challenging when you are at work, and you feel that there's nobody that
23:30you can talk to, because you don't want to go to your boss, that's the last person you
23:34want to go to, because then you just automatically just feel that they're going to judge you,
23:38they're going to, like, say, oh, maybe you should go home and not come back, um, you already
23:42feel completely unconfident in yourself anyway, and, and scared what you might say, because
23:48your brain sometimes fails you, so you're sort of like, ah, you can't rely on yourself
23:53anymore, so, you know, hopefully there is, um, a policy in place in, in, in, hopefully in
23:59a lot, in a lot of people's workplaces, that's what we've all been fighting for also with
24:02the menopause mandate, somebody that you can speak to at work, somebody that understands
24:06that you might need a little bit of time off, that you might need, um, an afternoon
24:12off to go to the doctors, you know, to make time for your GP or for your, for your appointment,
24:15if you've started HRT, you might need a few flexible working hours or days, so that that
24:20kind of, because some people get a bit wobbly when they first start taking it, um, there's
24:25so many things, it's so important that you have somebody in your workplace that you can
24:28go to, you know, somebody that's just there to listen to you, to hug you, to give you
24:32some time, you know, away from everybody else, you know, more breathable fabrics to work
24:39in and more comfortable conditions if you're in a really hot, sticky office, maybe you can
24:44have a fan or air conditioning or, you know, it's just, you need somebody to be able to
24:47listen to you and understand you and not judge you, um, most importantly, but, and I really,
24:54you know, I really hope anybody that's listening that, that if you are feeling like that, that
24:58there is a lifeline within your workplace, someone that you can confide in, um, and somebody
25:03that's non-judgmental and understanding and supportive, because that's all we need, you
25:08know, it's not like a, an infectious disease, it's like, we're not going to spread the menopause,
25:13it's like, we just need somebody to understand what's happening and it's just a tiny blip as
25:17well and we need women in society, you know, and women who are in perimenopause are usually
25:23at the top of their game, they've worked bloody hard all their lives, they're powerful, they're
25:26fantastic and, you know, don't like the thought of women just walking away from work because
25:31they just feel unable to cope, just needs a bit of patience and a bit of time.
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