- 34 minutes ago
Against this backdrop, CJP co-convener Ashutosh Ranka questions whether the sudden outreach to Gen Z by leaders such as Narendra Modi, Rahul Gandhi and Mohan Bhagwat reflects genuine engagement or merely an attempt to chase social-media algorithms.
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:05two dramatic weeks in Indian politics
00:12Gen Z protests over paper leaks go viral
00:18cjp protests force minister to resign
00:26opposition corners government in Parliament he either ordered it or he has
00:33no idea what's going on in his ministry and he's incompetent in either case he
00:38has to go Prime Minister Modi takes train stuff reaches out to Gen Z friends
00:45I don't know okay paper leak a quick mamoli vision I mean I'd
00:58fast track court Kelly a we've hungover near this day after Jantar Mantar now
01:08agitation in charge
01:12Prashant Kishore storms BJP's fortress
01:15yeah yeah yeah yeah
01:25Sunday's DNA cut it was a hard to talk about it
01:29be hard make it say that you can't even know you
01:34it's the political wheel turning
01:39political roundtable with Rajdeep Sardesai
01:47hello and welcome once again to the weekly roundtable
01:51it's been quite a week or dare I say a fortnight
01:55that has seen plenty of political ups and downs and surprises
01:59it began with the resignation of Union Education Minister Dharmendra Pradhan
02:04after the Jantar Mantar Kokruj Janta Party led youth protests
02:09it then snowballed into youth protests in other parts of the country
02:13most notably in Jarkhand bringing a new vocabulary into Indian politics
02:18Gen Z the under 30 cohort is on everyone's lip
02:23in fact every politician worth their social media account
02:27is rushing now to be on Instagram
02:30we've also seen by elections where a Prashant Kishore
02:33the election strategist turned Jan Suraj party leader
02:36won the big ticket Bakipur seat in Bihar
02:40a seat held by the BJP president Nitin Nabeen
02:43and which the BJP hasn't lost since 1995
02:46in Madhya Pradesh another BJP bastion
02:49the Congress won in Duttia
02:51and in Parliament too
02:53the government has been on the back foot both on pellet gun injuries
02:56and delimitation with Rahul Gandhi and the opposition leading the charge there
03:02so what has changed if anything
03:06is the political wind beginning to shift
03:09or is that a misreading of the big picture
03:11where the BJP remains India's party number one
03:14and Modi leader number one by some distance
03:18according to more of most observers
03:20joining us now on the show
03:23please welcome my special guests
03:25I'm joined by Rahul Varma fellow at Center for Policy Research
03:30joined by Sanjay Kumar one of the country's leading sophologists
03:35joined by Manisha Priyam senior political analyst and someone who's been in academia for years
03:42Amitabh Tiwari founder of Vote Vibe
03:44he's been tracking polls in recent times
03:47and Rajat Sethi political analyst
03:49who's also worked with the Bharatiya Janta party
03:52so good to have all of you on the show
03:55and we're going to try and decode what's happened
03:57in this remarkable fortnight
03:59or dare I say since July 20th
04:02let's raise the question first
04:05that's on everyone's lip
04:06Gen Z factor
04:08is it real
04:10or is it hype
04:11before I come to y'all
04:13I just want to give
04:14what are the numbers
04:15as per the election commission
04:17on Gen Z
04:19so that we get it right
04:20in percentage terms
04:21how many people are in this Gen Z court
04:25as per the election commission
04:27May 2024
04:2818 to 29 was 22.78%
04:3230 to 59 was the bulk
04:3460 to 60% up
04:3660 to 79 was 14.7%
04:3980 plus 1.87%
04:42so there's a large cohort
04:44under the age of 40
04:46out of which Gen Z
04:47is a major component
04:50so are we seeing
04:52Gen Z's rise
04:54is it real
04:55or is it hype
04:56Rahul Verma
04:57why don't you go first
04:58you've been writing about it
04:59in recent times
05:00do you see
05:01Gen Z becoming a new vote bank
05:04of sorts
05:04that political parties
05:06have only discovered
05:07some would say
05:07in the last few weeks
05:10see there
05:10Rajdeep thank you
05:11there have always been
05:13young voters
05:13in our politics
05:16in fact
05:17what seems to be happening
05:18that the proportion
05:19of young voters
05:20have stabilized
05:21in that sense
05:23it's shrinking
05:23now if you have
05:25one fourth of total
05:26voters
05:26who are in the
05:2718 to 29 category
05:2920 years back
05:30this number
05:31used to be more than
05:3230%
05:32so just thinking
05:34in terms of like
05:35young voters
05:36as a voting bloc
05:37that proportion
05:38has not increased
05:39what is different
05:41now that you are
05:42getting a young voter
05:43who's educated
05:45who's urban
05:46who's digitally connected
05:48and this
05:49is a very
05:50different category
05:51which is also
05:52aspirational
05:53and is not tied
05:54to old
05:55political loyalties
05:56as in the past
05:57because
05:58this is a very
05:59different category
06:00and we have seen
06:01this outpouring
06:02of this category
06:03not just in India
06:04across the globe
06:05in last 3-4 years
06:06and in fact
06:07in last 3 years
06:09in South Asia
06:10their outpouring
06:11had led to
06:12regime change
06:12right
06:13so given that
06:15I think
06:16there is a concern
06:17that political
06:18parties are not
06:19able to reach out
06:20or at least
06:21understand their
06:21language
06:22and that's
06:23what I think
06:24we are going to
06:25discuss
06:25in this segment
06:28you know
06:29because I
06:30just want
06:31for a moment
06:31to step back
06:32and maybe
06:34Manisha Priyam
06:35as someone
06:35who also looks
06:36at political
06:36sociology
06:37when we
06:37talk of
06:38Gen Z
06:39are we talking
06:40about unified
06:41group
06:41how is the
06:42Gen Z
06:42sitting in
06:44rural
06:44Dumka
06:45in Jarkhand
06:46similar to
06:47a Gen Z
06:48sitting in
06:48Mumbai
06:49where I am
06:49at the moment
06:50or dare I say
06:51in any big city
06:52so are we
06:52making the
06:53mistake
06:53in conflating
06:54them all
06:55as one group
06:56Rahul says
06:57they are all
06:57digitally connected
06:58but I am not
06:59do you believe
07:00that they are
07:00unified monolith
07:02or we need
07:03to actually
07:04look at a
07:04wider group
07:05which is
07:05generally those
07:07who feel
07:07they are left
07:08out of the
07:09system
07:09is it about
07:10Gen Z
07:10or is it
07:11about the
07:12anger and
07:12alienation
07:13of those
07:14who have
07:14been left
07:15out
07:15are not
07:16getting the
07:16benefits
07:17of any
07:17development
07:22so the
07:23important part
07:24is that
07:24the first
07:25part of your
07:25formulation
07:27subject
07:27they are
07:28very very
07:28regionally
07:29varied
07:29and remember
07:30education is
07:31a state
07:32subject
07:32also state
07:34level job
07:35recruitment
07:35scams had
07:36been happening
07:37for a long
07:37time
07:37but something
07:39would happen
07:39in Rajasthan
07:40it would not
07:40become national
07:41news
07:41something this
07:43JPSC scam
07:44that you are
07:44seeing is a
07:45long old
07:46thing
07:46so JPSC
07:48failures have
07:48led to long
07:49backlogs in
07:51lack of teacher
07:51recruitments in
07:52that state
07:53so things
07:54were snowballing
07:55and simmering
07:55at state
07:56level arenas
07:57what has
07:57happened now
07:58is the
07:59classic trigger
08:00of the
08:001857 revolt
08:01the greater
08:03the centralization
08:04it's not just
08:05social media
08:05penetration
08:06I think the
08:07CVSC exam
08:08failures
08:09you know
08:10that led to
08:11even ordinary
08:12school boys
08:13who were
08:14disconnected
08:15with the
08:15political process
08:16and those
08:17preparing for
08:18NEET and
08:18IIT
08:19Rajdeep you are
08:20one of those
08:20parents
08:21you know
08:21that for
08:22two years
08:22those children
08:23do not even
08:24talk to anyone
08:25they just
08:25prepare
08:25in Patna
08:27for example
08:27there are
08:28gullies
08:28the Musallapur
08:29heart for
08:30example
08:30where nobody
08:31no young boy
08:32will even
08:32talk to you
08:33they are in
08:34the tayari
08:34mode
08:35so the
08:35tayari
08:36mode
08:36became
08:37came to
08:38an inflection
08:38point
08:39because of
08:40large scale
08:40failures
08:41and repetitive
08:42failures of
08:43the NTA
08:44and the
08:44CBSC
08:45failure
08:45so many
08:46state level
08:47issues that
08:48had been
08:49simmering for
08:49a while
08:50but had
08:50not been
08:51paid much
08:51attention to
08:52came together
08:53and that's
08:54the time
08:54that social
08:54media
08:55paid the
08:55tipping point
08:56let me
08:57take you
08:57back to
08:58not
08:58Dumka
08:59the city
08:59you named
09:00but Gumla
09:01where in
09:012014
09:02Prime Minister
09:03Narendra Modi
09:03starting his
09:04campaign in
09:05Gumla
09:05in Jharkhand
09:07had said
09:07look at
09:12where the
09:13whole thing
09:14has come
09:14to now
09:15that those
09:16youth who
09:16were invoked
09:17to come
09:18and join
09:19the mainstream
09:19with their
09:20pen and
09:21wield their
09:22intellect
09:22they are
09:23coming back
09:23and saying
09:24give us
09:25back our
09:25right to
09:25education
09:26and in a
09:27strange way
09:28it's a
09:28reinvocation
09:29of what
09:30Baba Saheb
09:31Ambedkar
09:31thought about
09:32in the
09:33drafting of
09:33the Indian
09:33constitution
09:34few of you
09:35will know
09:36that there
09:36were great
09:37debates with
09:37Baba Saheb
09:38led and
09:39ensured that
09:40given the
09:41economic poverty
09:42of India's
09:43labouring poor
09:44it was
09:45obligatory on
09:45the Indian
09:46state to
09:47provide
09:47compulsory
09:48education
09:48at least
09:49till classes
09:508 which
09:50is the
09:51pre-school
09:52pre-secondary
09:53level
09:53pre-post
09:55school level
09:55now that
09:56dream has
09:57failed so
09:58children have
09:58realized that
09:59the constitution
10:00the Baba Saheb
10:01Ambedkar
10:02these are
10:03their biggest
10:04confidante at
10:05this point of
10:05time rather
10:06than political
10:07parties that
10:08seem to have
10:08let them down
10:11so in a
10:12sense there's
10:12a sense of
10:13betrayal I
10:13mean this
10:14Gen Z
10:14this real or
10:15hype as I'm
10:16asking it Rajat
10:17there seems to
10:18be a general
10:18sense of
10:19disillusionment
10:20what is uniting
10:20them as I
10:21said we can't
10:22even categorize
10:23them maybe on
10:24age groups you
10:24could be 35
10:25a millennial and
10:27be discontent that
10:28you're being left
10:29behind for whatever
10:29reason or you
10:30think that the
10:31system has let
10:32you down do
10:33you believe that
10:33is what we are
10:34seeing it's not
10:34about an age group
10:36but a mindset and
10:37the political parties
10:38need to pick up
10:39and address the
10:40mindset before
10:41they address
10:42necessarily a
10:43particular age
10:44group those who
10:45feel left behind
10:46are becoming part
10:47of this Gen Z
10:48revolt
10:52so Rajdeep ji
10:53I think in
10:542013 2014
10:55around that time
10:56we saw a
10:57similar youthful
10:59frustration with
11:01how status
11:02co-est
11:03governments of
11:04that day used
11:04to sort of
11:06blanket over every
11:07issue that
11:08concerned the
11:08people and
11:09this is why
11:09this mass
11:10outpouring of
11:11the younger
11:11people college
11:12people that
11:14Prime Minister
11:14Modi the
11:15then Chief
11:15Minister tapped
11:16into look at
11:17the campaigns
11:18that the CAG
11:19and the bunch
11:19of other bodies
11:20which were
11:20working for
11:21Prime Minister
11:21then were
11:23working on
11:23they created
11:24communities of
11:25six lakh students
11:27around the
11:27country and that
11:28became the
11:29bulwark around
11:30which the whole
11:30campaign was
11:31built so Prime
11:32Minister knows
11:33that that it is
11:34the youth and
11:35the youthful
11:36energy if directed
11:37properly can
11:37catapult him
11:38into power and
11:39can sustain him
11:39in power and
11:40a disgruntled
11:41youth is
11:42certainly going
11:42to cost him
11:44a lot and
11:44there is this
11:45realisation it
11:46took them time
11:47to realise that
11:48but I think the
11:49signals of this
11:50outlier event
11:51that suddenly one
11:53page starts getting
11:5422 million
11:55followers all of
11:56a sudden just
11:57shows that you
11:58know the
11:58tinderbox it was
11:59a perfect
11:59tinderbox
12:00condition all it
12:01required was a
12:02spark an inane
12:03spark of a
12:04remark which was
12:04in a bad taste
12:06from the
12:06honourable
12:06chief justice
12:07but was
12:08enough to
12:09lit fire to
12:10this tinderbox
12:10and I think
12:11after this
12:12sudden realisation
12:12it was dawned
12:13in the
12:14organisational
12:14behemoth of
12:15the BJP
12:16RSS has not
12:17again had an
12:18arrogant attitude
12:19towards it that
12:20this does not
12:20matter they have
12:21doubled down on
12:22it now the
12:23real challenge
12:24therefore is that
12:24will this
12:26gestures of
12:27outreach to
12:28this community
12:28is it going to
12:29suffice or do
12:30you need to
12:31create this big
12:32wave of economic
12:33opportunities which
12:34I fear that
12:35India is not
12:37in that sort
12:38of preparatory
12:40not correctly
12:41prepared to
12:42meet the kind
12:43of technological
12:43challenges and
12:44the tsunamis
12:45that are going
12:45to come out
12:46of it my fear
12:47is that if you
12:47do not address
12:48this and that
12:49next big wave
12:50of economic
12:51progress those
12:52economic ladders
12:53are not there
12:54you will see this
12:55disgruntlement
12:56spill over there
12:57might be in
12:58certain instances
12:58the beneficiary
13:00becomes the
13:00opposition becomes
13:01beneficiary of
13:02this and this
13:03is what BJP
13:04and the entire
13:04ecosystem of
13:05the BJP is
13:06acutely aware
13:07of and I
13:07think this is
13:08where they are
13:08working hard but
13:09I believe the
13:10situation is
13:12deeper and
13:13economic
13:13opportunities are
13:14currently
13:15constrained and
13:16this is where
13:17something out of
13:18the box in
13:18terms of solution
13:19has to be
13:20proposed to
13:20meet this
13:22behemoth of a
13:23demand that is
13:23there.
13:25So you seem to
13:26suggest it's real.
13:27Let me come to
13:28the sophology, the
13:29number crunches
13:29towards this
13:31Amitabh Tiwari
13:32you've been doing
13:33number crunching
13:34this year.
13:35Are you seeing
13:36a shift in
13:37youth voters?
13:38If you look at
13:39back at 2014
13:40Narendra Modi
13:41actually scored
13:42higher among
13:4318 to 25
13:44than he did
13:44even in the
13:45age group
13:46over 60.
13:47The young
13:47drove a lot
13:48of the change
13:49at the time.
13:50Now we are
13:50seeing for example
13:51in Tamil Nadu
13:5260% of the
13:53youth voted
13:53for Vijay
13:54not the two
13:54Dravidian parties
13:55and even in
13:57Baakipur there
13:57are indications
13:58that the young
13:59voted disproportionately
14:00higher for
14:01Prashant Kishore.
14:02Are we seeing
14:03a Gen Z
14:04vote which is
14:05actually translating
14:06into a search
14:08for change,
14:09a mood for
14:09change?
14:12Say I think
14:13the Gen Z
14:13vote or the
14:14youth vote has
14:15always been
14:15there.
14:16The issue has
14:17been that the
14:18as you have
14:18shown the
14:19youth population
14:20though the
14:21population is
14:22more but the
14:22voting population
14:23is just 22-23%.
14:25So the
14:26non-youth or
14:27non-Zen Z
14:28are higher
14:29than the
14:30youth voters.
14:31So the
14:31impact of the
14:32youth on
14:34results was
14:35not being
14:36seen.
14:36Even if we
14:36take 18 to
14:3740 the
14:38population is
14:39just 38-40%.
14:40So 60% is
14:42non-youth in
14:42that case.
14:44However as
14:44you mentioned
14:45in Tamil Nadu
14:47election is a
14:47classic example
14:48where the
14:49youth despite
14:50the lower
14:51numbers were
14:52able to
14:53impact the
14:55result because
14:56they went
14:56out and
14:57influenced other
14:58vote blocks
14:59which is
15:00their parents,
15:01relatives,
15:02seniors etc.
15:03and thus
15:04created an
15:04impact.
15:05Even the
15:0660% number
15:07which you are
15:07talking about
15:08I have not
15:09seen in any
15:10state whether
15:10this 18 to
15:1124 or 18 to
15:1329 age group
15:14is voting 60%
15:16in huge numbers
15:17for a political
15:18party.
15:19I think that's
15:19first of a
15:20kind.
15:20Secondly, the
15:22impact is real
15:24because across
15:26the country if
15:26you do surveys
15:27in the 18 to
15:2824 age category
15:30or 18 to
15:3029 the
15:31discontent is
15:32highest because
15:33unemployment is
15:34the number one
15:35issue across
15:36states.
15:36So the
15:37discontent is
15:37against the
15:38incumbent
15:39government whichever
15:40it is,
15:40Congress,
15:41BJP,
15:42TMC etc.
15:43and also the
15:44fact that this
15:45time the youth
15:46were able to
15:47impact the
15:47results is
15:49also a case
15:50study in
15:50itself where
15:51the political
15:51parties now
15:52see that the
15:53youth which is
15:54lower in number
15:55can impact the
15:56results if their
15:57issues are not
15:59tackled or if
16:01tangible solutions
16:02are not provided
16:03to the issues
16:03raised by youth.
16:05And here the
16:05CJP protests
16:06were a no
16:07confidence both
16:08against the
16:08government as
16:09well as the
16:10opposition because
16:11there is,
16:13because CJP is
16:13not a party,
16:14it's just a
16:14platform, it's a
16:15page, it's an
16:16Instagram handle,
16:17was able to
16:18concentrate or
16:19get the support
16:20of a massive
16:21number of
16:21youth because
16:22even the
16:23opposition perhaps
16:24has not been
16:24raising these
16:26issues and
16:26even if they
16:27are raising,
16:28they are not
16:28able to solve
16:29those issues in
16:30their particular
16:31states where
16:31there are ruling
16:32and they have
16:33not been able to
16:34provide tangible
16:35results.
16:36And I think one
16:36of the main
16:37causes of
16:38disconnect is
16:39that the youth
16:39representation in
16:41political parties
16:42and positions of
16:43power is very
16:45poor.
16:45we have just
16:46one minister
16:47who is below
16:49the age of
16:5040.
16:51CWC working
16:53committee age
16:54is average
16:54age is 68.
16:56Modi cabinet
16:56average age is
16:5761.
16:58BJP parliamentary
16:59party average
17:00age is 67 and
17:01a half.
17:02So there is a
17:02huge disconnect
17:03between the
17:04youth and the
17:05political ecosystem.
17:08You know,
17:08let's get that
17:09clear.
17:10Therefore,
17:10Sanjay Kumarji,
17:11what does your
17:12research show,
17:13particularly about
17:13the Hindi
17:14heartland?
17:14Because what
17:15we are seeing
17:16particularly with
17:16both Baakipur and
17:18indeed what we
17:18are seeing happening
17:20across the Hindi
17:21heartland is that
17:22this youth bulge,
17:23a large number of
17:24people are coming
17:24from the Hindi
17:25heartland where
17:26unemployment levels
17:27by all surveys are
17:29much higher than
17:29other parts.
17:30Is this Gen Z
17:31factor much more
17:33a sort of Hindi
17:35heartland factor?
17:36Do you believe it's
17:37spreading across?
17:38In Tamil Nadu,
17:38high growth rates and
17:40yet the Gen Z went
17:41and voted for a
17:42Vijay, voted for
17:43change.
17:43Is there a Gen Z
17:45factor, real or
17:46hype according to
17:47you, purely in
17:48terms of
17:49sophology, in
17:49terms of
17:50numbers?
17:54So, when we use the
17:56two words, is it
17:56real or hype?
17:58I think at this
17:59moment it is real.
18:00But whether this is
18:01going to make an
18:02impact in the
18:032029 election, I
18:05don't know and for
18:06that I would say it
18:07is a hype.
18:08But it all would
18:10depend upon how
18:10things unfold from
18:11now till 2029
18:13Lok Sabha elections
18:14or for that matter
18:15how things unfold
18:16from now till the
18:18next round of
18:19assembly elections
18:20take place in
18:20say Punjab, UP and
18:22some other states.
18:23My own sense is
18:24that if you look at
18:25the previous elections
18:27and I am referring
18:28to the Lok Sabha
18:29elections, it is
18:30only in 2024 we
18:32saw a decisive vote
18:34for BJP among the
18:35young voters and I
18:36am referring to the
18:37voters who are in
18:38the age group of
18:3918 to 25 or 26.
18:41the BJP had almost
18:434% lead if you look
18:47at the young voters
18:48and when I say 4%
18:49lead among of all
18:52the age group BJP
18:53got 36% vote but
18:54among the young
18:55voters BJP had got
18:56roughly 40% vote.
18:59So it was 4% higher
19:00among the young
19:01voters.
19:02But if you look at
19:03state-wise pattern,
19:05the state-wise pattern
19:06is not uniform because
19:08if you look at say
19:09Haryana or in
19:10Rajasthan, it's not
19:11that BJP has an
19:12advantage among the
19:13young voters compared
19:14to Congress.
19:16So state-wise patterns
19:17are very, very
19:18different.
19:18You have referred to
19:19Tamil Nadu.
19:21You referred the
19:23data that overall
19:24vote share of TVK
19:26was roughly 34-35%.
19:28But if you look at
19:29the vote share among
19:30the very young voters
19:3218 to 22, you
19:34referred the data
19:3460%.
19:35I think I had
19:38access to some
19:39data which also
19:39shows 65 or
19:41slightly more than
19:42that.
19:42So what does it
19:43indicate?
19:44It is not only
19:45yes, the trigger
19:47point is
19:48unemployment, the
19:50issues regarding the
19:51Indian education
19:52system, what was
19:53referred earlier by
19:54the other speaker,
19:55CBSC, NEET, etc.
19:56But it is beyond
19:57that.
19:58If that was not
19:59the case, how
20:00would TVK become
20:01such a popular
20:02party overnight?
20:03How Amadmi
20:04party managed to
20:05win two successive
20:06elections in Delhi,
20:072015 and 2020.
20:092015, yes, it was
20:11an euphoria, but
20:112020, they managed
20:13to win a very,
20:14registered a very
20:15big victory in
20:16Delhi and also in
20:17Punjab.
20:17So the trigger is
20:20rotten education
20:21system or the
20:22problems which
20:23Indian youths are
20:24facing with regard
20:25to education and
20:26job opportunities.
20:27But I think it is
20:28slightly beyond that
20:29they are also
20:30looking forward to
20:31an alternative which
20:32we saw in the
20:34recent Bakipur
20:35Bakipur by
20:38elections results
20:39as well.
20:42Looking for
20:43alternatives and
20:44I will come to
20:44what kind of
20:45alternatives in a
20:46moment but let's
20:46put the second big
20:47question up.
20:48Is this anti-establishment
20:50mood permanent or
20:52momentary?
20:53You know, Rahul
20:54Verma, I am just
20:55putting up a graphic
20:56of graduates among
20:57unemployed youth in a
20:59moment.
20:59And I want to put
21:01it, this is what
21:01Azeem Premji
21:02University has put
21:04out.
21:04These are numbers,
21:05is anti-establishment
21:07mood permanent or
21:08momentary.
21:09Just to put out the
21:10numbers, you know,
21:11we keep talking in
21:12every survey about
21:13unemployment.
21:14In 1983, age 20 to
21:1729, as per the
21:18Azeem Premji
21:19University study,
21:2013% were
21:21unemployed.
21:22By 2004, it had
21:23gone up to 32%.
21:252017, 46%.
21:27It's peaked at 67%.
21:29This is post-Covid
21:30in 2023.
21:32Are we seeing
21:33therefore the
21:33demographic dividend
21:34gradually turning into
21:36a demographic deficit?
21:37And that is why
21:38political, that is why
21:40a lot of people are
21:41turning against the
21:41establishment.
21:42Not against a
21:43government or an
21:43individual.
21:44Not necessarily
21:45anti-Modi, anti-BJP
21:47or anti-Congress.
21:47This is not left
21:48versus right.
21:49This is, as I said
21:50at the very outset,
21:51people who feel left
21:52behind.
21:53I mean, we had
21:54anti-establishment
21:56mood
21:57in the 70s,
21:58the angry young
21:59man being replaced
22:01now by the angry
22:02unemployed youth.
22:03Are you seeing
22:04that?
22:04Is that the
22:05difference?
22:07So, Razdeep,
22:08every generation
22:09has its political
22:10moment.
22:11And the current,
22:12what you are calling
22:13Zelzi, this is their
22:14political moment to
22:15get mature.
22:16And this happens...
22:18Is it permanent
22:19or momentary?
22:20We will find out.
22:22There is always...
22:23And there is a
22:23global connection to it.
22:25Think about what I
22:26just said a few
22:28minutes back.
22:29This Gen Z
22:30outpouring has not
22:31just happened in
22:32India.
22:32It happened in
22:33multiple countries.
22:35Between 2011 and
22:362013, when you
22:38again saw
22:39mobilization and
22:40protest, India
22:41against corruption
22:41in India, you had
22:43Arab strength.
22:44Think of the 90s
22:45movement, when
22:46perhaps that was a
22:48movement for
22:48Sanjay Jis and
22:49your generation.
22:50That was your
22:51political movement.
22:512011-12 was our
22:53political movement.
22:54There was another
22:55time, 1970s, which
22:56you talk about
22:57angry young men.
22:59That was a
22:59political time for
23:01another generation.
23:02So every 15 to
23:0420 years, it's
23:05cyclical.
23:05You will see that
23:07there is going to
23:08be inbuilt
23:10frustrations against
23:11the system that
23:12will come out.
23:13Now, it depends on
23:15existing political
23:17players, how they
23:18navigate it.
23:19If you think of
23:20the 70s, that
23:21led to a very
23:22different kind of
23:23change.
23:23If you think about
23:242011, it led to a
23:25very different kind
23:27of change.
23:27What will happen to
23:29the 2026 moment
23:30depends on what
23:33BJP is going to
23:34learn from this
23:35moment and what
23:36opposition is going
23:37to learn from this
23:37moment.
23:38My second point,
23:39and this connects
23:40to what Rajat was
23:42saying.
23:43See, what has
23:44happened in India
23:45that in 10 to
23:4712 years, we have
23:49doubled the number
23:50of graduates.
23:51We had 30
23:52million graduates
23:53in 2013-14, and
23:55now in 2025, we
23:57have 60 million
23:58graduates.
23:59Economy is only
24:00growing 6, 6.5%.
24:02And at that level
24:03of economic growth,
24:04you will not be
24:05able to absorb
24:06graduates in the
24:08economy.
24:09And so my
24:10generation had
24:11perhaps greater
24:12upward mobility
24:13than my parents'
24:14generation.
24:15But the upcoming
24:16generation is not
24:17able to see a
24:19certain future.
24:20And that's where
24:21political parties
24:22have to have a
24:23conversation with
24:24them, figure out
24:25what their
24:26aspirations are,
24:27and then mobilize
24:28them.
24:29Will this, and as
24:30Sanjaji was
24:31pointing out, will
24:32this have an
24:33electoral impact in
24:342029?
24:35Will depend on what
24:37political parties do
24:38at this moment of
24:39time?
24:39What kind of future
24:41they are going to
24:42present to this
24:43younger generation
24:44situation so that
24:44they can bring
24:46them towards
24:47them?
24:49No, but it
24:50comes back, Rajat,
24:51to what, you
24:51know, Narendra Modi
24:52offered a dream in
24:532014.
24:54We are now in
24:552026, 12 years
24:57on.
24:58Vixit Bharat,
24:59Stand Up India,
25:00Start Up India,
25:00lots of dreams were
25:01offered.
25:02What happens when
25:03the dream turns into
25:04disillusionment for a
25:05section?
25:06The Congress
25:07suffered when they
25:08were in power
25:09because many thought
25:09that the Congress
25:10would, in its own
25:11way, under
25:12Manmohan Singh,
25:12ensure that
25:13corruption was
25:14rooted out.
25:14What happened?
25:15Corruption grew.
25:16Mr. Modi made a
25:17lot of promises.
25:18Is this a
25:18structural problem
25:19or a problem of
25:22constantly rising
25:23expectations and
25:24aspirations that
25:25simply can't be
25:26met by the
25:26government?
25:27And that's
25:27fueling a sense
25:28that the system
25:29no longer has
25:30space for many
25:31people and their
25:32aspirations.
25:33A few people are
25:34having a great
25:35time and their
25:36aspirations are
25:37vaulting.
25:38A lot of people
25:39are getting left
25:39behind.
25:41So, Rajdeep,
25:43our $300 billion
25:45source of
25:46exports, which
25:47is the IT
25:47industry, is
25:48gaping at a
25:49huge hole.
25:50Right now, the
25:51big leagues in
25:52forces at CLN, a
25:53bunch of these,
25:54have stopped
25:54recruiting product
25:56companies in IT
25:57sector.
25:58These were the
25:58principal ladders of
26:00economic growth that
26:01were available to our
26:02generation.
26:03Those have suddenly
26:03been pulled away.
26:05What Prime Minister
26:05Modi is doing is
26:07that he has
26:07understood that there
26:08are structural shifts
26:09in the economy and
26:10you cannot rely on
26:11what was available
26:12say 10-15 years
26:13any longer.
26:15And this is where
26:16there are a bunch
26:17of focus on deep
26:17tech.
26:18This is the RDI
26:19fund which has
26:19been brought into
26:20place to mobilise
26:21somewhere around
26:215 lakh crores to
26:23create next wave of
26:24opportunities.
26:25You look at
26:26globally also, there
26:26are no more IT
26:27jobs.
26:28Google is reducing,
26:29Microsoft is reducing
26:30its workforce.
26:31Where are those
26:31aspirational jobs
26:32anymore?
26:33Today, there are
26:33new age companies,
26:35there are a bunch of
26:36these AI companies.
26:36Somehow, our IT
26:38industries and our
26:39economic giants were
26:40not able to change
26:42themselves and change
26:43their business models
26:44in time.
26:45And this is the reason
26:46there are not enough
26:46opportunity out there.
26:48What can a government
26:49do?
26:49Government can only
26:50create a facilitating
26:51environment, keep the
26:52dialogue going with
26:53the industrialists,
26:55keep pushing them to
26:57invest more in our
26:58story, commit them
26:59publicly to come out
27:01and spend in R&D.
27:02And this is all what
27:03Prime Minister has been
27:03doing.
27:04But this metamorphosis
27:05takes time.
27:07But look at rising
27:09inequalities, sorry
27:10to stop you, but
27:11again, intent, but
27:12what's the reality?
27:14Inequalities are
27:14rising.
27:15I mean, the truth is
27:16every report, and
27:17it's not just one
27:18report, a series of
27:19reports are showing
27:20rising inequalities.
27:21How are you going to
27:22address that?
27:23That's structural.
27:24So, I mean, is the
27:25government facing this
27:27anti-establishment
27:27mood because it
27:28slipped out of their
27:29hand?
27:30See, this is where
27:32the entire polity has
27:33to readjust to these
27:35changes.
27:35Does it require more
27:37a different kind of a
27:38progressive taxation?
27:39What do you do about
27:40this problem that is at
27:41hand?
27:41And I believe he acutely
27:42understands that.
27:43One thing that the BJP is
27:45trying to do, they are not
27:46stuck in time.
27:47Unlike what the previous
27:48regimes like that of
27:49UPA was, when people
27:51were shouting and
27:51screaming at the top of
27:52their voices that they
27:54demanded a change, the
27:55government was not
27:56responding.
27:57Here, it took them
27:58barely an instance.
27:59Today, an MEA is coming
28:01on Snapchat.
28:02You have all of these
28:03communications.
28:04The RSS, Sarsan Chalakji
28:06has come out and
28:06addressed the youth.
28:07There is an attempt.
28:08I don't see that this is
28:09entirety of the solution.
28:11This is part A of the
28:12solution.
28:13When you start some
28:13dialogue, understand, try
28:15to address these
28:16insecurities that
28:17they're telling them,
28:18telling this younger
28:19generation of ours that
28:21we are attempting
28:22newer opportunities.
28:23Give us time and we
28:24are pushing the pedal
28:25forward in those
28:26directions.
28:27And I believe this is
28:28again, time will tell
28:29us how permanent this
28:30is and how this angst
28:32can be handled.
28:33I mean, what if in
28:34UP election, BJP again
28:35wins?
28:35What happens to this
28:36Gen Z movement?
28:38Right?
28:38So, you know, we'll be
28:40sitting and analysing
28:41UP elections and then
28:42we'll be saying that,
28:43see, this was just
28:43momentary.
28:44But I still believe
28:45Prime Minister of all
28:46people is acutely
28:47aware that the economic
28:48ladders are thinning and
28:50therefore he is thinking
28:51constantly on increasing
28:52the size of the pie.
28:55You know, you're saying
28:57he is acutely aware of
28:58it.
28:58Question is, does he
28:59have, you know, does
29:00any government have a
29:01solution?
29:02Because what we are
29:03seeing, Manisha Priyam,
29:04is not just rising
29:05inequalities, there will
29:06be those who will say
29:07also we are seeing
29:08creeping authoritarianism.
29:10So there is less space,
29:11there was less space,
29:13arguably, in the last
29:1410 years for a lot of
29:15people to express
29:16themselves.
29:17Suddenly, in a way,
29:18there's freedom from
29:19fear.
29:20People feel that, look,
29:21I can at least speak up.
29:22And that's, in a way,
29:24similar to what we saw
29:25when people spoke up in
29:26the 70s and whenever
29:28there's been a sense
29:29that you've got dominance
29:30of one leader or one
29:31party, are we seeing
29:32both rising inequalities
29:34and rising
29:34authoritarianism and
29:36therefore like a
29:37volcano suddenly
29:38erupting, there's lava
29:40now starting to come
29:41up, which was kept
29:42through force of fear
29:45under, in a way, under
29:47the volcano.
29:48The dormant volcano is
29:49now exploding.
29:50Or am I exaggerating
29:55it?
29:55So, rising inequality,
29:57of course, there are
29:58economic measures and
29:59the Gini coefficient.
30:00But the thing is that
30:02the Instagram was
30:03promoting the rich and
30:04the wealthy and their
30:05lives.
30:06Suddenly, you see that
30:07people understood in the
30:09gully that there was
30:10some one or just a few
30:12with so much.
30:13But the second part is
30:14that I would like to
30:15respond to my esteemed
30:16colleague who just spoke
30:18on the panel that RSS and
30:21something, Sanchalak,
30:22Sir Sang Chalak or
30:23whatever, I don't know.
30:24I'm very sorry, I don't
30:26know the terminology very
30:27well.
30:27Bhagwadji.
30:28Bhagwadji had an
30:29outreach to Gen Z.
30:30Once again.
30:31Once, yeah, no, but I
30:34am not concerned.
30:35This Sang is not the
30:37government of India, right?
30:38We are wanting to talk
30:40about the government of
30:41India.
30:41Now, whether the
30:42SPIC-MAKAY as a cultural
30:43organization feels very
30:44bad about Gen Z being
30:46left out and wants to
30:47have music programs, I
30:49think it's a very good
30:50idea, but it doesn't
30:51address the issue.
30:52What is the issue at
30:53hand?
30:53Election after election,
30:55the crawlers, the parents
30:57of the cockroaches, the
30:58mothers especially, are
31:00coming up and taking it
31:0110,000, 15,000 rupee
31:03dolls.
31:04Go back and ask the
31:05ladies, they will tell
31:06you,
31:10Go back to the gullies
31:11where I go, look at the
31:13things I write in
31:14important journals.
31:16Our book, you know,
31:17Youth Futures and
31:18Precarious Urbanism has
31:20just come out of three
31:21years of field work all
31:22over the country,
31:23ethnographic field sites.
31:24They all want secure
31:25government jobs.
31:27You know, the Agnivir for
31:28example was a very easy
31:30way for not very
31:31academically intensive,
31:33but lot of physical
31:34training and agrarian
31:36background children could
31:37get into it.
31:38You casualize that.
31:39Anybody tried to have a
31:40dialogue, now I don't
31:42know whether that dialogue
31:43was to be had with
31:44Mr. Honorable, very
31:46respectable Sir Sang Chalak
31:48or whoever.
31:48I don't know whether he
31:49had the solution.
31:50The solution needed to
31:52come from the
31:52government.
31:53The need in the
31:54northern parts of India
31:55was most acute for
31:57normal average low
31:58paying government jobs
32:00and that is and
32:01continues to be the
32:02mandate of the
32:03government to provide.
32:04this comes from teaching
32:05jobs, this comes from
32:07railway jobs, this comes
32:08from police bharthi.
32:10The state at this point
32:11cannot withdraw.
32:12It cannot say that I will
32:14give you the ration.
32:15I am in Patna field work.
32:16There are many people who
32:17tell me that we have
32:185 kilos rationes in
32:195 kilos rationes in
32:195 kilos.
32:20But we have to do it.
32:23We have to do it.
32:24We have to do it.
32:24So, people have their
32:25own property.
32:26But they have their
32:27own property.
32:28Gen Z is coming.
32:30Look at what the
32:31children in the
32:31coaching centres in
32:32Musallapur are at
32:33eat.
32:34They try and tell me
32:35that we try and keep
32:36a daily meal to not
32:39more than rupees 10
32:40if possible try and do
32:42it in rupees 8.
32:43Three meals for a
32:44young person whereas
32:46we are promoting whey
32:47proteins and God
32:48knows what body
32:49building and this and
32:50that.
32:51You know, so it is
32:52stark inequality which
32:54is now being lived on
32:56the bodies of our
32:57young.
32:57Let's stop the
32:58politicking and say we
33:00need to care for our
33:01young people.
33:02No, no, no.
33:03So, Panisha Priyam,
33:04whatever it takes us.
33:05No, no.
33:06Is the anti-establishment
33:08mood being fed by
33:10rising inequalities
33:11because they have
33:11existed before?
33:12I mean, is it being
33:14fed by rising
33:15inequalities or by
33:16creeping authoritarian
33:17a sense that
33:18nobody is listening to
33:20us?
33:20What is it?
33:21Is it the faith that
33:22the government is not
33:23listening to us?
33:24So, the withdrawal
33:28of the welfare state
33:30for poor people just
33:31handouts at time of
33:32election is what has
33:34led to all this.
33:35There is rising
33:36inequality and if
33:38there had been voice
33:39then people would
33:39have heard that the
33:41Agni Veer was not a
33:42good scheme for
33:43example, not having
33:44permanent school
33:45teachers was not a
33:46good schemes.
33:47Para teachers at
33:481,000, 10,000, 6,000
33:50rupees is not a good
33:51scheme.
33:52The state needs to
33:53keep people in
33:54perpetual employment
33:55for a while, not on
33:57doles, it's not
33:58working.
34:00And cultural
34:01organizations are not
34:02words, but I'm very
34:04happy that these dialogues
34:05are happening culturally.
34:08Okay, you know
34:09Amitabh Tiwari, I
34:11heard Rahul Verma
34:12saying you're seeing
34:12it across South
34:13Asia, except Pakistan
34:14where we haven't seen
34:15the young come out on
34:16the street.
34:17We saw it in
34:17Bangladesh, we saw it
34:18in Sri Lanka, but can
34:19we liken what happened
34:20in Jantar Mantar to
34:21any of that or what is
34:22happening in Jarkhand?
34:23Do you really believe
34:25that India, from your
34:27studies, is showing
34:28something similar to
34:29what happened in
34:30Bangladesh, it was
34:31clear, it was against
34:32the authoritarian rule
34:33in a way that the
34:34way Sheikh Hasina was
34:35accused of rigging
34:36elections.
34:37In Sri Lanka, there was
34:38an economic crisis that
34:39led to it.
34:40Here, are you seeing
34:41anything similar?
34:42Surely a neat paper
34:43leak is not going to
34:44lead to a 1.5 billion
34:46strong country, the
34:48youth revolting in
34:49anti-establishment
34:50manner.
34:50It's not even like
34:51anti-emergency where
34:52there was a clear
34:53target.
34:56I think there are
34:57two aspects to it.
34:58One is that the
34:59student organizations
35:00or the CJP are
35:02entering into an
35:03agreement with the
35:04government and it
35:05took just, I think,
35:06three meetings for
35:07them to forge into
35:09an agreement with
35:10the government.
35:11It shows that the
35:13youth of this country
35:14are different from
35:14the youth of Nepal or
35:16Bangladesh, for
35:17example, is that they
35:18are still willing to
35:21operate within the
35:22confines of our
35:23constitution.
35:24So if the
35:25constitutional
35:25authorities are
35:27giving them promises
35:28that they will look
35:30into the problems and
35:31offer solutions, I
35:33think still the
35:35youth are operating
35:36within the
35:36constitutional
35:37governments.
35:38Secondly, is that
35:39these protests are
35:41sending a message.
35:42It's a message, it's
35:44an initial message
35:45that none of the
35:47political parties,
35:48whether be it the
35:49opposition or the
35:50parties in power,
35:51are talking about
35:53the issues, because
35:54we are also election
35:55after election, not
35:56necessarily talking
35:57about the real
35:58issues, but rather
35:59rhetorical issues.
36:01It also shows
36:02frustration of the
36:03youth, because in
36:052014, they were...
36:06No, but would they
36:07vote on education?
36:08No, no, no, one
36:08minute.
36:09Amitabh Tiwari, tell
36:11me, for example, if a
36:12political party made
36:13education its central
36:14agenda, you believe
36:15they would win an
36:15election in India?
36:17Would that become an
36:18issue?
36:18That I'm going to
36:19come...
36:19Arvind K.
36:20Jival attempted it
36:21to some extent, to
36:21his credit, 12 years
36:23ago, I'm going to
36:24change the school
36:24system.
36:25Do you believe that
36:26is a potential
36:27election vote card?
36:30See, potential
36:31election vote card is
36:32creation of jobs.
36:34Okay.
36:35And of course,
36:35education is linked
36:37to it, because
36:37education is the
36:38foundation which
36:39will help you get
36:40jobs.
36:41Now, the youth have
36:42sent a message, as
36:43Sanjay J has said,
36:44they will wait and
36:45see how the
36:46political parties,
36:47which is the
36:47existing political
36:48parties, are reacting
36:51to their demands and
36:52whether they take
36:53tangible solutions or
36:54they take concrete
36:55steps or not.
36:56If not, if not, then
36:58what is the option
36:59they have?
37:00They will look for
37:00new alternatives.
37:02See, when Prime
37:04Minister Modi came to
37:05power, I think one of
37:06the two key promises
37:07were 6% budgetary
37:10spent on education,
37:11it is still at 2, 2.5%
37:13if I'm not wrong,
37:14and the fact that
37:16the manufacturing share
37:17of the GDP pie,
37:19because manufacturing
37:20creates jobs, now we
37:21are seeing in the
37:22services sector that
37:23cost alone cannot be
37:25the differentiator, and
37:26that is what has led
37:27to this issue that the
37:28service sector is not
37:29in a position to create
37:31more jobs, and
37:32manufacturing as
37:33percentage of GDP has
37:34actually fallen from
37:35what it used to be.
37:37Private sector as
37:38percentage of capital
37:39formation, again, there
37:40is no significant
37:41private sector
37:43investments.
37:44So all of these are
37:45structural issues which
37:46the youth feels that
37:47they have seen a hope in
37:49Prime Minister Modi in
37:502014, but maybe 10
37:52years, 12 years down the
37:53line, they do not see
37:55significant improvements or
37:56actions sticking on these
37:57fronts, and that's why a
37:59message is being sent to
38:00both the opposition and the
38:03ruling dispensation.
38:05you know, because let's be
38:07honest, there's an entire
38:07generation which has only
38:08seen Prime Minister Modi.
38:10Over the last 12 years,
38:11they were, what, 8 years
38:12old when he took over,
38:13they are now 20.
38:14So they've only seen that.
38:15Which brings me to my next
38:16question.
38:17Are new faces now more
38:19attractive than the older
38:20guard for a voter?
38:21I want you to take that, Sanjay
38:25Kumar, is it that new faces
38:27are more attractive to the
38:30voter?
38:30Before I do it, come to you,
38:32just listen to what Prashant
38:34Kishore said.
38:34Because in a way, Prashant
38:36Kishore has positioned himself
38:38as a new, someone addressing
38:42the constituency who is tired of
38:45the old faces.
38:45This is what he told our
38:47correspondent Rohit Singh in an
38:48interview.
39:30He said,
39:45vote monga jayega, or kuch
39:47nahi chalega, talalu ke
39:48jangalraj ka dar dhikha kar
39:49vote liya jayega.
39:50To in tino cheez ka joh
39:51combined asar raha hai,
39:52uski wajah se, logoon
39:53hai bhajpai ke khilaaf
39:54ho di.
39:57You know, we saw it in
39:58Baakipur in a by-election,
40:00where Prashant Kishore won.
40:01Do you believe that even the
40:03traditional voters are looking
40:05at new faces, their Sanjay
40:08Kumar, people want novelty.
40:09They want someone who is going
40:11to, they believe, change the
40:13rules.
40:13You can't replace
40:15a Nitish Kumar with a Samrat
40:18Chaudhary and expect the new
40:19voters to embrace a Samrat
40:20Chaudhary.
40:25Now, if we do an analysis of
40:27Baakipur by-election and the
40:29verdict of Tamil Nadu
40:31assembly election, you will see
40:32a stark difference between how
40:34the young voters have voted and
40:35how the elderlies have voted.
40:36I don't think that if we are
40:38talking about the new faces, more
40:40than the new faces, what the
40:41young people are looking forward
40:42is new promises and new
40:46promises which they think the
40:47person or the new party would be
40:49able to deliver.
40:50But that's not the voters who
40:54belong to the elderly age group.
40:55I'm saying referring to, say, 50 plus
40:57or more than that.
40:58I don't think they share the same
41:00kind of an aspiration.
41:02They would like to go along with
41:04established party.
41:05I'm not saying every one of them.
41:07But disproportionately, if we look at
41:09the elderly ones, they would still
41:10go along with the traditional
41:11party.
41:12And I'm saying if we do age-wise
41:14analysis of how people have voted
41:16in Baakipur, we can see a stark
41:18difference between them.
41:19But the young ones are definitely
41:21looking at not the new faces, but
41:23new promises and new aspirations.
41:28Now, what do you mean by new
41:29promises, new aspirations?
41:30Take Tamil Nadu, which is the most
41:31graphic example.
41:32Baakipur is just a by-election.
41:34But Tamil Nadu, what Vijay did?
41:36I mean, he's a superstar.
41:37Do you believe Tamil Nadu is
41:38sui generis?
41:39Tomorrow, let's say in some other
41:40state, someone who represented
41:42newness, novelty, a startup comes
41:44up.
41:45Will it be easy, according to you,
41:46for a startup to win because of
41:48this search for a new face?
41:55No, I don't think that the TBK
41:59managed to win election or Vijay
42:01managed to perform the way he has
42:03been able to perform because only
42:04only because his face was
42:06recognizable.
42:07He was he was a star.
42:09I think his promises, the promise
42:11like he he wanted to move away
42:13from, you know, the kind of politics
42:15which DMK and AIDMK has been
42:17doing.
42:17He raised the issues of corruption.
42:19Corruption is an issue.
42:20At times, it makes an electoral
42:22impact.
42:23At times, it doesn't make an
42:24electoral impact.
42:25But I think it was more than the
42:27face that the promises he was
42:29making.
42:29Yes, he's being a young, his
42:32his recognized face, face being
42:34recognized, added value to that.
42:36But not only because he was a
42:38recognized face, he was able to do
42:40what he did in Tamil Nadu 2026
42:43assembly elections.
42:46You know, Rahul Verma, are we
42:48saying that for let's say for
42:49across the world, since you're
42:50using global examples, we are also
42:52seeing a lot of 40 plus leaders
42:54emerging across the world who the
42:56young can identify with.
42:58I mean, the point is we've got a
42:59parliament where majority of the
43:01people are over the age of 60 in a
43:03country where the majority are under
43:0535.
43:06I mean, is is is there a search for a
43:09young face?
43:10People are looking for youthful faces
43:12who represent a certain newness.
43:15Rajdeep, uh, or is Tamil Nadu
43:17sui generis?
43:18Let me take big three points.
43:20First, when I said every generation
43:23has a political moment, in that
43:25political moment, new leaders also
43:27come.
43:2875 to 77 gave you Lalu Yadav,
43:31Mulayam Singh Yadav, uh, Nitish
43:33Kumar.
43:34The moment, the 90 to 92 moment gave
43:37you Narendra Modi, Pramodh
43:38Mahajan, those kinds of leaders.
43:402011 to 14 gave you, uh, uh, uh,
43:44Arvind Kejriwal and, and, and, and
43:46YSRCP, like political moments
43:49produce leaders.
43:50And this 20, 26, uh, uh, uh, or 24
43:55to 26 moment is going to produce
43:57new leader.
43:58You are going to get a Vijay, you
43:59are going to get a Prashant Kishore.
44:00So every generation, every political
44:03moment, when it comes after 15 to 20
44:06years pushes new leadership in, in, in
44:08politics.
44:09Now, second point, which is to do with
44:12in every democracy, there is a gap
44:15between like leadership age and the
44:18age of median voter.
44:20In India, unfortunately, that gap is
44:22very, very large.
44:23In fact, like people start, most people
44:26actually start politics in their
44:28forties, not in their thirties.
44:30If you take any leader or any
44:33candidate who's like, who wins
44:34election and is below 30 actually
44:36comes from political family.
44:38So if you are not from a political
44:40family, you don't even get a chance,
44:42serious chance to contest election in,
44:44in your thirties.
44:45And that's why like in most sort of
44:47like developing countries like India,
44:49politicians start their career at 40,
44:5245, and then they reach somewhere to
44:54be known as like in sixties.
44:57Third, where I want to make a
44:59distinction between promise and what
45:01politicians do like politicians.
45:04So Modi gave a pro like in, in 2014,
45:07he gave a hope.
45:09Uh, Vijay basically gave a hope.
45:11It's not a set of, I'm going to do X, Y,
45:14Z, right.
45:15Achse din aayenge is a hope for a
45:18better tomorrow.
45:19Vijay basically saying we have seen
45:21two parties for 50 years.
45:24Now we need to do something else.
45:25Whether CGP or leadership associated
45:29with it succeeds or some other
45:31political entrepreneur is going to
45:33take advantage of this moment depends
45:36entirely on how politics is going to
45:38flow.
45:3920 like Arvind Kejrivar.
45:41No, but there is a great, as you rightly,
45:43no, no, but, no, but as you rightly said,
45:47there's a huge barrier to a startup.
45:48It's not easy for a startup to scale up
45:51as even Amadmi party has found out.
45:53Money is a huge factor.
45:54You need resources.
45:56But do you believe Vijay was, you know,
45:58is an exception in that case.
45:59Do you believe that if I'm a new 40 year old
46:02and I pitch myself for a political career,
46:06I'm not talking about me.
46:06I'm 61.
46:07But suppose I was 40.
46:09And I said, look, I'm the new kid on the block.
46:12I want to contest a Goa election.
46:14Small state.
46:15We are tired of the same politicians in Goa,
46:18the defections.
46:18I'm offering newness.
46:19Is newness enough?
46:21Or do you need more than just newness?
46:23It's not.
46:24In 75 years of our democracy,
46:26we only have four cases of political startups
46:30succeeding in their first election.
46:32It was NPR.
46:35It was AGP in Assam in 1984.
46:38It was Amadmi party in 2013.
46:41And it's Vijay in 2026.
46:43So these are basically unique examples.
46:46The first three actually came because of political movement.
46:50So yes, this movement creates an opportunity for CJP.
46:54But CJP has three options.
46:56Whether they join existing political party,
46:59whether they create their own movement.
47:0126, or they basically slowly just remain an interest group
47:07and fizzle out.
47:08All those three possibilities are equal at the moment.
47:11Because it largely depends.
47:13And I want to stress this point.
47:15It largely depends on how BJP is going to play its card.
47:19Because as incumbent, they have more cards to play.
47:23If they make a mistake, they create opportunity for others.
47:26If they don't, then politics will go as usual.
47:32You know, because it's interesting that Rahul Gandhi is positioning himself also in a way
47:37as this anti-establishment challenger doing Chhatro Ki Goonj.
47:40So in 2014, Rahul Gandhi was establishment and Mr. Modi was anti-establishment.
47:45Now in 2026, Rahul Gandhi is projecting himself as anti-establishment and Mr. Modi as establishment.
47:51That's one of the many changes that's taken place.
47:53But with five or six minutes left, I've got one final trick question.
47:58Is Insta the new medium for narrative battles?
48:01We are now seeing the Prime Minister doing vertical videos.
48:04We are seeing Rahul Gandhi saying, ask me anything.
48:07Is Insta, and I want to put up some numbers to tell you why Insta matters or why social media
48:12in general matters.
48:13Take a look of what the Insta numbers or the numbers when it comes to social media in this country.
48:22Now, when it comes to WhatsApp, for example, how many WhatsApp users are there in this country?
48:27It's a huge number.
48:29It's over 80 crore people are into WhatsApp, 85.
48:33Facebook is 58.2 crores.
48:36YouTube, 49.1.
48:38Instagram, 39.3.
48:40Rising all the time.
48:41Twitter actually, where a lot of energy is spent, is just 2.3 crores.
48:46Now, that's the interesting part, Rajat Sethi, because in 2019, many believe this was WhatsApp election.
48:532014 was the TV election.
48:55Chai Pe Charcha, Create Real Events.
48:572019, WhatsApp.
48:592024, YouTube.
49:00YouTube, has Instagram taken over or is this a panic reaction that politicians have sensed what's happening with Gen Z?
49:07So, they panicked and said, oh, let's get on to Instagram.
49:10Has Mr. Modi panicked?
49:12Has Rahul Gandhi…
49:13Because Rahul Gandhi, in a strange way, for once, seems to be a step ahead of Mr. Modi on social
49:19media.
49:21For once.
49:23Well, so you speak to the Gen Zers on Insta and they hate this prospect that political parties are trying
49:29to introduce.
49:30They enter into their space, which they consider that this is our space where none of our parents, none of
49:35our relatives are going to hound us and constantly stalk us.
49:39So, much to their anger and frustration, they will see all politicians suddenly dawning upon their reels and everything very
49:45soon.
49:47See, it certainly has been a platform which has espoused, you know, the lingo, the vocabulary of this generation.
49:54Therefore, it is in sync.
49:56But this too will be disrupted.
49:58There are other ways in which people are constantly exploring new and it's just a matter of imagination.
50:04But yes, right now, it is the space.
50:07Snapchat and Instagram are both the platforms where I believe government, with all its instruments and everything, is saying that
50:14this is the place where we have to be.
50:15And I believe they are cultivating a new stream of social media strategy and influencers onto these new platforms.
50:24But it needs to be seen.
50:25See, it's just a starting point.
50:28You have to ensure that all your message has to be so strong and so powerful that it cuts across.
50:35My problem, fundamentally, what I think is, over generations, we have seen mean reversion.
50:40Each time a leader or a generation tries to look for hope from these younger faces, there is mean reversion.
50:47You come back to where things started.
50:49Look at what movement that Aam Admi Party, for instance, started.
50:52We were all part of those movements.
50:54Where did it tend to?
50:55Nowhere.
50:56My problem is that even this movement will create a lot of anxiety, a lot of issues coming to the
51:01foray, but it will not lead anywhere.
51:03We need people, we need political parties who are genuine about these problems and who can find solutions one way
51:10or the other.
51:11All by sheer luck.
51:11Something has to happen in this country.
51:15Okay.
51:16Manisha Prem, I'm presuming you're not on Insta.
51:19Are you on Insta?
51:20Do you know what clock it means?
51:22I learned today what clock it means for this generation.
51:25It means killed it.
51:26You slayed it.
51:27Are you on Insta, by the way?
51:28You're not doing vertical videos?
51:34I'm, I'm, see, this one, you don't even know that.
51:37I saw your Insta video and I know a lot more than you do.
51:41But the thing is, I've been asked to keep quiet.
51:43What does this mean?
51:44I silently look at it and the thing is, now you have to find out this means I'm shy.
51:52So this is this new generation that they may have clocked it.
51:55They are not as vocal as we were.
51:57We were more ideological, but they are more grounded in constitutional values.
52:01They do not think that our country did not have foundations or did not have a history.
52:07They want to own it up.
52:09They want to own it up, but in their way.
52:12And nation is theirs.
52:13India is theirs.
52:16Okay, I just have 30 seconds each.
52:18Amitabh Tiwari, we wouldn't have done this discussion even three weeks ago.
52:21And that shows how dynamic Indian politics is.
52:24Three weeks ago, Amitabh Tiwari, it appeared that the BJP was on a roll.
52:28Shiv Sena broken, TMC broken, Aam Aatmi Party broken.
52:32Suddenly, in three weeks, we are talking about Gen Z, government on the back foot.
52:37I come back to it.
52:38Are we exaggerating the impact of the events of the last three weeks or has something substantially changed?
52:44A quick answer.
52:47No, see, clearly, I mean, electoral impact, it is very, very difficult to say what will be the impact in
52:52the upcoming state elections
52:53and even in the 2029 looks of elections when it is head.
52:57But I think this time, clearly, the message, the youth has sent a message that our issues need to be
53:02talked about.
53:03Our issues need to be solved.
53:05Tangible solutions have to be given.
53:06And in terms of representation, we need higher representation across political parties.
53:13If that is not done, of course…
53:15And does communication matter?
53:17Of course.
53:18And how important is communication?
53:20How important is communication?
53:22Vijay, for example, focused on Insta and won the election.
53:26Yeah, so 2014 is the first Twitter-Facebook election.
53:31Rahul Gandhi was not even on Twitter and Facebook in 2014.
53:34He joined later.
53:362019, WhatsApp, 2024 is the first YouTube election.
53:39Because Congress, despite not having a stronger organization, was able to convey the message of Samhidhan Khatriya.
53:48And in 2026, Tamil Nadu is the first Insta election.
53:53See, there is already a tectonic shift in political communication.
53:57From now on, this one-way communication, one-way traffic, I think Prime Minister himself has realized.
54:03From now on, leader who listens perhaps will thrive, I think.
54:07And that's how Prime Minister Modi himself has realized this and has been on Insta.
54:12But just being there will not work.
54:14We have to listen to the youth.
54:16That's also a strong message which they have sent.
54:20Okay, just 30 seconds.
54:22Sanjay Kumar, I'm not sure you're on Insta.
54:24And I don't know whether you knew what clock it meant.
54:27But I will ask you, Sanjay Kumar Ji, do you believe that we are seeing that change is in the
54:32air?
54:34As some analysts have already started suggesting.
54:36Or it's premature.
54:38It's a particular moment that we've had.
54:40But BJP's election machine, the Prime Minister himself, still remain Neta number one?
54:46Or do you believe Rahul Gandhi is catching up?
54:51No, certainly Rahul Gandhi is catching up.
54:53There is no doubt about that.
54:54But how fast or how slow, that's the big question.
54:57I think the change is with regard to the perception.
55:00The change is with regard to, you know, like how things seems to be like heading at the moment.
55:08But in terms of electoral impact, I think we are making, we are making, we are in a hurry to
55:14start assessing the electoral impact of this Genji movement.
55:18In terms of perception, in terms of narrative, yes, there is certainly seems to be change.
55:23Right.
55:25Okay, I'm going to leave it there.
55:26As I keep saying, Harold Wilson, the British Prime Minister, once said a week is a long time in politics.
55:31In India, as we've seen, a month can be an eternity.
55:35We've suddenly seen a tectonic change, at least in terms of perception and narratives.
55:40How that will translate into electoral behavior, that we will not predict.
55:44And that is always hazardous business in India.
55:46But I appreciate all my guests joining us on our special roundtable.
55:50Thank you all very much.
55:51Good to have such fine voices join us.
55:53To you, the viewer, I don't know whether you're Gen Z, but remember, this means clock it, which remember, which
56:01also means you killed it.
56:02I hope we killed it today.
56:04Thanks for watching.
56:05Stay well, stay safe.
56:07Jai Hind, Namaskar.
Comments