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The Washington Nationals made some massive changes before the MLB trade deadline, but their playoff hopes are slowly slipping away. Paul Toboni gave The Sports Junkies a peak into his mindset as he flipped around the Nationals roster. Do you still have faith that Washington will make the playoffs?
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00:00Let's check in with our guy Paul Tiboni, president of baseball operations for the Washington Nationals post-trade deadline.
00:06Nationals made a couple moves, shipping off Luis Garcia, Foster Griffin.
00:10Of course, Curtis Mead was traded before that.
00:12What's going on, Paul?
00:14Good morning, fellas. How are you guys?
00:15Doing well.
00:16Hopefully you are too.
00:18Before we kind of get into the specifics of some of the players you received, I kind of want to
00:22ask you what you tell the fans.
00:25There's definitely a fan sentiment.
00:27Some of the fans frustrated that you guys seemingly were sellers.
00:33I know you're bringing in arms that you need, whatever.
00:36Do you have sympathy for the fans that say, hey, man, we're just getting rid of guys who are really
00:42top contributors to this team in Foster Griffin and Luis Garcia?
00:47Yeah, of course.
00:49I mean, those are two awesome players, right?
00:53Not to mention Curtis.
00:55And it's tough.
00:56Like, it's the same battle that we had in our heads.
00:59You know, like I said to you guys last week, you know, one of our biggest challenges is balancing who
01:06we are today with who we're going to be in the future.
01:09And so, decisions to trade guys like Foster, Louis, Curtis are never easy.
01:16But at the same time, it's obviously with a plan in place.
01:20And, you know, it's the hope that, hey, we can still compete this year and bring guys in that can
01:28help us this year.
01:30But also, hey, we're setting ourselves up better for the future.
01:34So, you brought in eight arms total, if you include Connelly early.
01:40I'm not asking you to, you know, play favorites or rank them.
01:43But I assume early, you know, once he's healthy, he's going to be in the starting rotation.
01:47But how many of these other guys, these arms, do you feel like will be contributors quickly?
01:54Yeah.
01:55I mean, so you bring up a good point that we're bringing in a bunch of arms.
01:59But it's also a good amount of arms that are in the upper levels, the minors.
02:04So, to answer your question, I think a few of them.
02:07Obviously, Giovanni stepping right into our pen.
02:10Will Dion stepping right into our pen.
02:13Jake Bird, I think you'll probably see up here in the next couple weeks.
02:19But then beyond that, Ben Grable comes to mind.
02:22So, he was the lead piece in the Yankees deal for Louis.
02:29We think this guy's one of the best relief prospects in the minors.
02:32So, you know, he's in AA right now and having a ton of success.
02:37It wouldn't surprise me if he was in AAA before we know it and knocking on the door.
02:41So, just to answer your question, I think a good amount of them.
02:45And it was part of the reason why we targeted the returns that we did
02:49is because we want these guys showing up hopefully somewhat soon and not five years from now.
02:55Paul, how much did the sweep at the hands of the Braves impact your decisions
02:59heading into the trade deadline, if at all?
03:02Were those losses like a big factor?
03:03Or did you and your staff already have your minds made up that these players are going to go?
03:09These players are going to get dealt before the trade deadline?
03:12No.
03:13You know, I try to be as transparent as possible with you guys
03:17and with the rest of the media dating back to probably 10 days ago.
03:24And I think what I told you guys was, man, yeah, it is like we're going to play this by
03:29year
03:29because it is going to influence us in some respect.
03:33And I think what I told you is like, hey, if we go 500,
03:36like it's probably not changing how we're thinking about this.
03:38But if we reel off five or six in a row, it probably changes how we're thinking about it.
03:43And, you know, if we slip a little bit and lose five or six in a row,
03:47it also is going to adjust how we think about this a little bit.
03:50So, you know, we take it into account.
03:53Are we, like, completely turning over our strategy on Ted?
03:57No, I don't think so.
03:59But, yeah, like, does it inform how we're going to approach the deadline?
04:03Like, absolutely.
04:04Paul, this is kind of a bigger picture,
04:05but what would your response be to fans whose mindset is,
04:09and I've seen a lot of this online over the last week, maybe two weeks,
04:12is why am I going to get emotionally invested in stars like C.J. Abrams and James Wood
04:18if ownership can't and or won't compete payroll-wise with the Dodgers, the Mets, the Phillies,
04:26some of the higher-spending teams in the league?
04:28How do you combat that, and how would you answer that?
04:32Yeah, I think it's a fair question.
04:36I think what I would say, though, is just strip out, like, the dollars for a second.
04:42I think what fans most gravitate towards is winning.
04:46You know what I mean?
04:47Like, if we're winning, I think payroll becomes a little bit less relevant, right?
04:53There are, you know, a few teams around the league that, you know,
04:57are winning a bunch of games, and, you know,
05:02I think fans aren't talking about payroll as much as they are about them winning a bunch of games
05:06and the players that they love on those teams.
05:08So, you know, I think it's like when we were early in the season, right,
05:14when we were probably exceeding expectations, my guess is that the fans were talking about us
05:21exceeding expectations and their love for Woody and CJ and these guys, and not necessarily that.
05:26So, you know, we keep telling ourselves,
05:30hey, if we just focus on putting together a really good team over the long term
05:33and winning a bunch of games, I think the rest will take care of itself.
05:36Talking to Paul Tivoni, president of baseball operations for the Washington Nationals,
05:41traded away Foster Griffin, your all-star pitcher.
05:44Did the Nationals offer him an extension?
05:48Yeah, we did.
05:50The details of which I'll keep to myself, but, yeah.
05:55Yeah, we, you know, like I said, like I'm not trying to fool anyone with what I was saying before.
06:03What we were weighing is, yeah, keeping him here over the next few years
06:09and weighing that against a trade return.
06:12So, obviously, you know, how it turned out is we traded him.
06:18You know, he'll hit free agency at the end of the year, possibly,
06:21and then we can, you know, we can rekindle talks then.
06:24Let me ask you this, Paul, and you can say no comment,
06:26but the deal that you offered Griffin, was that a deal that you thought he was going to accept,
06:31or did you know it was going to be too low and he was probably going to decline it?
06:36No, first of all, I'll keep, like, all this to myself,
06:38but we don't want to play the game of, like, yeah, just throwing things over to just throw them over.
06:44That makes sense.
06:45All right.
06:46Do you have kind of, like, big picture, a replacement for Foster Griffin?
06:50This is a guy who, you know, was winning games for you.
06:54Made the all-star team.
06:56Connelly early.
06:57Do you envision early as a replacement?
07:00JoJo Gray is the replacement.
07:01Like, who is, for fans who are out there wondering who's going to replace what he was giving you,
07:07who replaces Foster Griffin?
07:09Yeah.
07:09No, it's a great question.
07:11Connelly's the first one to come to mind.
07:14I think, I don't know how much you guys have seen him throw, but, you know, once he's back out
07:21there,
07:21I think you guys will appreciate what he brings to the table.
07:26And then, you know, not just him, but we've got some guys in AAA that I think should be up
07:31here at some point here in the next month or so.
07:34So, we've got a kid named Jackson Kent that is really pitching well.
07:39He's a big lefty, gets huge length down the mound, and he's having a bunch of success down there.
07:45So, he's a guy.
07:46Luis Perales is another guy whose fastball has been sitting 98-99 in the starter's role.
07:52And, you know, he's got a really good split in cutter.
07:56So, he'll be up at some point.
07:58And, you know, I think the key difference here, I think this is probably obvious,
08:03but just to reiterate, those guys that I'm talking about, you know,
08:08we are going to be with the Nationals for a long period of time.
08:11We have control over them for five, six, seven years.
08:13So, that's the main difference with Foster.
08:15And, you know, Foster's obviously up after, you know, in two months or whatever it is.
08:20And so, that's kind of what played a big role in the decision that we made.
08:27And, like I've kind of been saying, we were transparent with Foster all the way along
08:32that that was going to be the hold up a little bit, and he totally understood it.
08:37And now it's just our job to bring in guys that can fill Foster's role
08:42and hopefully create more depth from a starting pitching standpoint.
08:46And along the same lines, how do you see Luis Garcia's, you know, bat being replaced?
08:52This is a guy who was leading the league in slugging, gave you 23 home runs,
08:57made the move from second base to first base this year.
08:59How do you see that moving forward?
09:02Yeah, so, first of all, I don't think it's fair to place an expectation on the guys
09:08that are coming up that they're just going to, like, one-for-one replace Luis, right?
09:12As you said, he's having the best year of his career.
09:16You know, I don't know.
09:18The fans could probably tell you better than I could say it,
09:20but my guess is that prior to this year, like, if we would have traded Luis in the offseason,
09:26there might not have been a ton of noise, right?
09:30But the fact that he's had this awesome season, you know,
09:34working his tail off with our new group and so on and so forth,
09:38I think that's what really caused the pain.
09:40And we're not – I don't think we're going to replace that one-for-one,
09:44just because, like you said, he's leading the National League
09:47or was leading the National League in slugging.
09:49So, having said that, we've got some guys that we're excited about.
09:52You guys saw it, I'm sure, in that first game with Abby Ortiz hitting a homer.
09:57So, Abby will get some good run.
10:00Chappie, who's having an awesome year, is going to get more ABs.
10:03And then we've got some guys in AAA, too, and Yohani Morales and some others
10:07that we think can step up and perform offensively and give us a good shot to win.
10:14Paul, I was watching the game in Atlanta when you called in to Colco and Franzen.
10:19I can't remember what day that was.
10:20Maybe Saturday.
10:22Right when you called in, Lyle hit the homerun.
10:24It was kind of funny.
10:25But Colco and Franzen were talking about, I guess people that they were speaking to
10:31within the team were talking about, they could see it was on these players' minds
10:36about potentially being dealt.
10:37Specifically, they mentioned CJ, and they were kind of focusing on him.
10:41He didn't have a great series against Atlanta.
10:42I think he was like two for 12 and struck out four or five times.
10:46But, you know, they mentioned him, and obviously Foster didn't pitch well
10:51against Atlanta.
10:51Do you think that that was – I mean, it's just natural, right?
10:54You're human.
10:54Do you think that that stuff, just the rumors of them possibly being dealt,
10:58was on their mind for that series?
11:01Yeah, it's funny you ask that.
11:02I, you know, I took the train to Philly yesterday and sat down with CJ for a while,
11:09and that was actually one of the things we talked about.
11:11Like, just the, you know, the sigh of relief.
11:14Like, you can go out and just play now and worry about playing.
11:17I think there's probably something to it.
11:21You know, I will say, like, a lot of teams deal with that,
11:25and we try and do a really good job communicating with guys
11:29and keeping them in the loop, but I think it's almost impossible
11:34to kind of rid the players of, like, all anxiety or stress
11:38that might come from being traded.
11:40It's just the nature of it.
11:41And, you know, the alternative is just guaranteeing to everyone
11:45that they're not going to be traded,
11:46and obviously we can't go down that path.
11:48And so we try and do our best, but I think a lot of it is unavoidable,
11:53if I'm being completely honest.
11:55Right.
11:55Paul, are guys like Garcia and Meade tradable to you
11:58because of your confidence in Buterin and his staff
12:01to develop younger players either on the roster currently
12:04or guys who are in, you know, double-A or triple-A at this point
12:07to improve as hitters on the major league level,
12:10like we've seen with the power numbers for multiple Nats players this season?
12:15Yeah, no, it's – I mean, our staff is awesome.
12:18And, you know, while they're awesome, I don't think it's fair
12:23to set expectations that, like, we're just going to continue
12:25to be able to, you know, pump out Curtis Meade's
12:29and Luis Garcia's every year.
12:32Like, will it happen?
12:33Yeah, it'll happen.
12:34But those are pretty rare cases where, I mean, it's part of, like,
12:38what has made this team fun to watch over the course
12:42these last, you know, six months or whatever it's been
12:45is the fact that, I mean, you can count pretty much, I don't know,
12:50eight to ten guys, whatever it is, that are having career years.
12:53And whether it's JY or Kaber or you mentioned Louis,
12:58you mentioned Meade, you mentioned Woody, CJ.
13:01Like, you can just go up and down the line.
13:04And I don't think it's – I don't think that's going to be the case
13:08every year, which is why if we're going to trade a guy like Curtis,
13:12we need a return that we're really excited about coming back
13:15because those guys are tough to come by that produce like that.
13:20And so, once again, if we're going to trade them,
13:22we want guys that are, in our opinions, maybe tougher to come by
13:26and Connelly fits that mold.
13:27I'm curious how you guys perceive players like Dylan Cruz and Brady House
13:33that spent some time in Rochester, performed well down there,
13:37came back up.
13:38What did they change about their offense, their defense?
13:41Like, what have you seen in those guys specifically
13:43who you guys have high hopes in?
13:47Yeah.
13:48I mean, yeah, it's different for each of them.
13:51And I think the big thing is – let me start with Brady.
13:55For Brady, I think it's both offensively and defensively
14:00just really trying to mature.
14:03And a lot of this maturity, to be honest, I think you just kind of have to figure out
14:07in the big leagues while you're young and you're facing these really good arms.
14:12And so, not to just be redundant, but I think for him it's a lot of dialing in
14:19a really refined approach.
14:20And sometimes it doesn't click for players until they're 24, 25, 26 years old.
14:26Shoot, you saw it with Curtis, I think.
14:27Like, Curtis, I think it really clicked for him this year how to force pitchers
14:33into the middle of the plate and then do damage when he does.
14:37And so – and for Dylan, honestly, it's a similar thing.
14:41Like, Dylan is so athletically gifted.
14:44Now it's just about making the next step of really connecting that athleticism
14:50in that field of hit with a really refined approach.
14:54And, you know, we see glimpses or extended glimpses of it,
14:59and it's really exciting.
15:00Now it's just about doing it more consistently.
15:03And if he does, he's so darn good defensively and on the base pass.
15:07He's got a shot to be a really, really good player.
15:09So circling back to kind of where we started and you having an opportunity
15:15to talk to the fans, I remember when we first met you was when you had
15:19the introductory press conference, and kind of the perception there was
15:25the ownership group was handing you the ability to do certain things,
15:29and they were going to empower you.
15:31And though nothing specific was said about salary cap and money being spent,
15:38fans, including myself, were left the impression, okay, it's going to change
15:41a little bit.
15:42It feels like it hasn't changed this year, and that might be because of the
15:46circumstance.
15:47Might it change next year where this team leaps, you know, up in the payroll
15:52and start paying some guys a little bit more money?
15:55Let's see how many games they play next year.
15:58Yeah.
15:59So I think there's a lot that goes into that question.
16:01What I would say, though, is that there's so much going on that you guys don't
16:06see and that the fan base doesn't see that, quite honestly, I probably haven't
16:11talked enough about, right?
16:13So, you know, being able to develop guys at the major league level the way that
16:20we have, that doesn't come without a cost.
16:23It doesn't come without investment.
16:24And then our player development group, too, like, you know, going from whatever we were
16:30coming into the year, the 20th-ranked farm system or 23rd or wherever we were up until
16:38the top, call it two or three or four, wherever we are, that doesn't come without real investment
16:44and doing it right, so to speak, in the minor leagues.
16:49And so I think that the problems are you don't, you know, it's tough for fans to kind of realize
16:55those returns right away.
16:57And so while we have realized some of them in the big leagues with guys that are major
17:02league players, that's really fun.
17:04That's been great.
17:06But I think some of this is there's going to be some lag time when you see, until you
17:10see some of these minor league players come up and, you know, they're really good versions
17:15of themselves.
17:16I think that's where a lot of this is going to shine through.
17:18Paul, real quick before we let you go, you've been around baseball a long time, specifically
17:23with Boston.
17:25And you know baseball is a very difficult sport.
17:28It's hard to win consistently.
17:30It just is.
17:31I mean, you've got injuries and, you know, just things happen in a game.
17:36And obviously the big payroll teams are leading their divisions and leading the wild cards
17:41for a reason.
17:42But how does a team like Boston that you work for, and you know everybody in that organization,
17:47how are they 14 games under 500, 14 at one point, and then they turn it around, they win
17:5432 of 40.
17:55How is that possible?
17:58Yeah, I think it's a combination of probably two things.
18:01Like, the first thing is that when they were, yeah, whatever they were, 32 and 45 or whatever
18:08they, whatever their record was at that time, I think they were actually playing a lot better
18:11than their record.
18:13And just, you know, kind of being shafted a little bit from a, just from a luck perspective.
18:21And so I think they were actually playing better than their record.
18:23And then the inverse is probably true, too.
18:25Like, while I don't watch all their games, I can't say for sure, my guess is that over the
18:29course of the last, you know, 30 games, they probably haven't been playing quite to their
18:36record, but their record has been so awesome.
18:38I mean, it's crazy.
18:40I think tough for any team to play up to that, that level of play.
18:42So, um, I think it's just, it's funny.
18:45It's just like how it's all come together.
18:47Like they had a really cold stretch and then a really hot stretch where, you know, if it
18:51was like smoothed out a little bit over that time, um, people might be able to receive it
18:56a little bit better, but they got a really good team.
18:57They're really, really deep.
18:59And, uh, yeah, I think they're, they're set up to make a run here.
19:03All right, Paul, really appreciate the time and the insight.
19:06We'll talk to you next week.
19:07All right, man.
19:07We'll take, take care of it.
19:08Thanks, Paul.
19:10Paul to Boney, president of baseball operations for the Washington nationals here on the junkies.
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