00:00Let's next talk to Dr. Omar Schatz, the co-founder of Frontlex, which challenges EU migration policies through the courts.
00:08Dr. Omar, welcome. Let's just first pick up on that point from our correspondent, Ken,
00:12which I'm hoping you are able to hear that Italy has gone as far as suspending Schengen free travel arrangements
00:18with Spain.
00:19I mean, I wonder, do you share the concerns of other EU countries watching this?
00:26Not only I'm not sharing the concern, this is, with all due respect, ridiculous.
00:33Italy doesn't share any border with Spain, so there is nothing here to suspend.
00:38And under EU law, there is no way to suspend a membership from Schengen.
00:43This is only political moves instrumentalizing the suffering of people and the consequences of EU-owned migration policies.
00:53And Italy is the last member state that can pronounce on the matter after several bodies, including the UN, the
01:01highest UN human rights body,
01:03that its agents are aiding and abetting crimes against humanity in the central Mediterranean route, namely from Libya to Italy.
01:10And they are receiving so many asylum seekers and they are refraining from rescuing so many asylum seekers in distress
01:18at sea intentionally,
01:19causing the death of thousands.
01:21And they are the ones who are capturing asylees in the middle of the sea and send them to concentration
01:26camps in Libya to be tortured and raped.
01:28So, Giorgia Meloni is the last politician in Europe that can pronounce against Prime Minister Sanchez.
01:36They would, presumably, if they were here, not accept your characterization.
01:41But I want to ask you directly...
01:43It's the UN and the chief prosecutor of the ICC, Jamie.
01:46So, it's not me saying it's not my NGO, it's not some leftist agenda or whatever.
01:51This is really a determination of the fact-finding mission to Libya that Italian and European agents are aiding and
01:59abetting crimes against humanity.
02:01It's not the issue of our talk, so I don't have time to elaborate, but this is not me saying
02:06it's the ICC chief prosecutor and the UN, the highest UN human rights body.
02:10So, I'm just citing others here.
02:12You would accept, presumably, that this is illegal immigration, isn't it?
02:17No, not at all.
02:18Actually, and this is what I want to clarify, maybe, at the outset already.
02:22We can talk about the realpolitik, we can talk about the policies, the border policies and the migration policies of
02:29the EU and of Spain.
02:30But there is also something strange that is called the law, Spanish law, EU law, European law, and international refugee,
02:38human rights, and maritime law.
02:40And these bodies of law put in place rights that Spain and the EU as a whole are bound to
02:48comply with.
02:50They chose to engage in several conventions and treaties.
02:55And this treaty is a command that every person, for any reason whatsoever, can leave any country.
03:02And every person seeking international protection or asylum has a right to enter any country, including irregularly climbing fences, crossing
03:10deserts, navigating at seas, or swimming, as in this case.
03:15And what is required from the country, in this case, Spain, is to filter, to individually assess those who are
03:26arriving and those who are not entitled should be sent back.
03:29As you know, this is, to a large extent, a fake incident.
03:33Unprecedented number of people, but unprecedented number of people who voluntarily already swam back to Morocco.
03:41So, it's a non-issue anymore, but the right to live, the right to enter, the right to seek asylum,
03:49in order to enjoy one.
03:50You have to be able to seek asylum, so you have to enter.
03:53And, of course, once you are there in Ceuta, you have to be provided with the minimal necessities, like food,
04:01water, and so on, that were not provided.
04:03So, the obligation to refrain from cruel and degrading and inhumane treatment.
04:07And then, we can talk about the removal.
04:10Who can be removed, and how can we distinguish between what you call economic migrants and those who are entitled
04:15for political protection from persecution, risk to liberty, or life?
04:20Omar, good to talk to you, and thank you very much indeed for your time.
04:22Dr. Omar Schatz, the co-founder of FrontLex.
04:25Thank you very much.
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