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00:03welcome to new york got game what's good everybody welcome back to another edition
00:09of new york got game it's your boy dexter henry alongside my guy brian fonseca the offseason
00:15continues basketball never stops you know how it all goes always have something new to talk about
00:22with the knicks and i think brian one of the biggest things about the knicks right now because
00:28all the offseason business pretty much done we still don't know who's going to be the third
00:31center on this team i know a lot of people still want to know or second question mark question mark
00:36too andre drummond isn't a fold yes we'll see we'll see how training camp goes we'll see never
00:40know but we got to talk about who's the number one center on this team that is car anthony towns
00:45and
00:46i feel like his contract situation is still looming over this knicks offseason everybody's trying to
00:53figure out what's going to happen with this right is he going to get an extension he is extension
00:59eligible when is this going to happen i guess are you shocked that this hasn't happened already i'm not
01:06nah not really because if you're the knicks you don't really have to rush into this
01:11if you're cat you probably want to rush into this you probably want that contract right now
01:18yeah you want it yesterday yes so um these things do tend to happen just randomly sometimes you'll get
01:28it right after the season sometimes you'll get it during training camp right before training camp
01:32right before the season starts like whatever but i don't think it's the biggest deal in the world i
01:36just know that if you're cat you should want this done now yeah i mean just for the financial security
01:43no he wants it done his agent wants it done so i want us to try to talk about this
01:47because i think
01:48the big question that we start off at the top is okay and we're going to get into what extension
01:55could look like for cat and all that stuff we'll get into all that but is he worth a max
02:00extension
02:00now currently towns is eligible for four year 272 million dollar extension right so my my question
02:09here is is he worth a max extension right or is he even worth extending at all because that is
02:18the
02:18big question right are you going to give him the max is he going to take less is do you
02:22even want to
02:22extend them at all right i think the real question here is is paying a center who's aging we're all
02:31aging
02:33right but how dare you you ain't getting any younger none of y'all out there getting any younger
02:38either about the same age yeah you're aging let's say that you're you're aging all right gonna getting
02:45over 30 and and beyond all right you feel it yeah feel it trust me i think he's earned an
02:52extension
02:52yes based on what he's did since coming over here obviously delivering a championship we'll get into
02:58that more late later the question is has he earned a maximum extension of four years and 272 million
03:05dollars now before this you were saying to me a good comp that you brought up before we started
03:09recording who was the player you mentioned i'll let you i'll let you click on this so we should look
03:14at two recent extensions two guys that got maxes recently recently got maxes yes it's this summer
03:19one i know you're gonna bring up donovan mitchell who has the highest aav now moving forward average
03:24annual value of 68.2 million dollars he signed for what four years 272 million which is basically what cat
03:32is eligible for shea gilders alexander's number two he signed for four for 271.6
03:41roughly the same thing aav just under 68 million a year so this is what cat's max is cat's max
03:50is
03:50basically whatever donovan mitchell's getting right now and whatever shea gilders alexander is about to
03:56get right now four years and about 272 million dollars average annual value 68 million that is
04:06a lot of money so what are you saying is he worth the max extension or not i think he's
04:10worth the
04:11extension i didn't hear the word max in there sir but i didn't hear the word max in there that
04:16is a
04:16lot of money to pay also for again and we're going to give him a lot of credit for basically
04:23helping the knicks win the title for obvious reasons oh got to but if you're talking about
04:28just a financial conversation in a salary cap sport because if there were no salary cap i'd be
04:34yeah yeah give cat the money but in a salary cap sport where the second apron looms
04:40can you really pay him basically the second highest contract or the highest contract in the
04:46nba in the nba for your second option while you're about to pay jalen brunson the same contract maybe
04:54more i don't know what his max is actually going to be but it's going to be in that territory
04:57and he's
04:58getting every dollar this time he's not taking 113 million dollar pay cut so yeah like to me
05:05there aren't that many guys that are worth the max like we give maxes out to guys who are not
05:10max
05:10players i i don't think i think you can give cat a lot of money but with the context of
05:15it being a
05:16salary cap sport i don't think you can give them the biggest contract in the nba which is essentially
05:20what it would be yeah i'm with you he you can't especially if you're trying to keep we'll get to
05:28this more too as we get deep in this conversation yeah as you're trying to keep this window open
05:31you cannot give your second best player second most important offensive player who was big time
05:38for you in the championship run and i'll get to that in a second you can't pay him the max
05:43dollars
05:44here this is why jalen brown got traded by the way this is literally why yeah if you really talk
05:49about
05:49it right that's and we'll to that point we'll see if philadelphia will want to extend him
05:57i think they're gonna wait and see as well too as they should as they should i'm not saying they
06:02shouldn't extend them i'm not saying any of that there's a reason he got traded and it's a reason
06:06he got traded for what he got traded for also because they didn't want to pay him right simple
06:11as that boston did not want to pay him again that doesn't mean that philadelphia won't pay him
06:15and the same thing can apply to cat you know somebody might be willing to pay something that someone
06:20else is this kind of brings me to the next question because it's about what is his value to
06:24the knicks right brian and then did the championship or winning the championship change anything about
06:31cat's value because if we're all keeping it a buck and i know some fans out there now you can
06:36say you
06:37love cat all y'all didn't love cat okay we we saw the comments we saw the questions you know
06:44some of
06:44you guys were skeptical some were skeptical and some were just like ah many not some yeah i think i
06:49think
06:49most to be fair to say to be fair there was i'm not saying that you were warranted warranted yeah
06:55i'm not saying the skepticism wasn't warranted because i don't feel that way not all of you
07:00could act like you always i will at least say that people questioned whether he could be the second
07:04best player on the championship team at least i'll say when the trade was made for him right like
07:09people were questioning can he be the second best player on the championship team to be fair when he
07:14was with the timberwolves they had some questions about that too and to be fair was he the second
07:19best player on the championship team oh you do why are you trying to start stuff og was really good
07:25like og was really good i agree i think there was and in the finals i think there were spurts
07:31where cat
07:31definitely was the second best player there were times that og was early in the series but i think what
07:36was been dope about the knicks construction was either player could switch that's kind of valuable
07:43so do you want to max out the play right i got you but i guess no but to my
07:49no the answer is no
07:51for me like this is the thing but but what i'm asking is do you think now that he's got
07:56that chip
07:57it's changed his value or the way either a he looks at himself and his value or be the way
08:03the team
08:04looks at him it should and his value yeah but it should but they don't value him enough to pay
08:08him to
08:08max you're saying right but but if i'm cat i'm gonna say hey i proved to y'all that i
08:16can play
08:16defense in the playoffs fair he did basically what i doubt like no doubt and a big part of why
08:21they
08:21won the championship was because no you could not attack brunson and cat in the way that we all
08:27thought great point going into the playoffs and yes og has something to do with that mikhail stepping up
08:32has something to do with that like the infrastructure has something to do with that but ultimately
08:38cat we saw it starting in the atlanta series like when they really turned it around
08:43he's one of the guys who really stepped up defensively and we were saying hey not only is
08:49it difficult to finish around him because it wasn't just rim protection but also driving on him was not
08:54as easy as it appeared to be at various points in the season yep so he proved that he can
08:59be a winning
08:59player on both ends of the floor which has been a question his entire career like his entire career
09:05not not to mention the offensive fouls and overcoming that and things of that nature you and i you and
09:11i
09:11we'd love to watch it correct most in the league but he was able to control himself a little bit
09:17more
09:17compose himself a little bit more in the playoffs and then you saw with the defense in the playoffs
09:23he was able to stand in front of victor wambanyama he was able to contain various different guys in atlanta
09:31the switches were not just lay up lines you know what i mean just walk ways to finish right like
09:38he held up
09:40in a more than competent way and that's part of why they won the championship i know i was gonna
09:47say
09:47i love that you talked about his value and what he brought to the team in the postseason without
09:55talking much about his offense because i think so much gets talked about or rebounding for that
10:00matter that's good too well we know how i think we know i think a lot of fans know how
10:04dope of a
10:05defensive rebounder he was throughout the season the value of him and it was kind of great you had him
10:10and he admits he was good on offensive glass but those are things we know he can do and what
10:13he proved
10:14in the playoffs is he can do things that we questioned yeah but i love that you talked about
10:21the defense because i think so much attention gets placed on after game three against atlanta where he
10:27became that offensive hub and this was something to be fair we got to tell the story correctly
10:31he went to mike brown and asked for and said hey put the ball in my hands i don't want
10:37to just finish
10:38right here offensively i want to find ways i can set up for others let me be yokich in some
10:42ways we have
10:43to give him credit that that was a very selfless move and you don't remember how many times we would
10:47sit here and do the watch parties people say cats only got four shots right and i'm like he's being
10:51efficient with his touches he's making the right pass he's making the right reads and that's all i
10:55cared about he played winning basketball right he made winning play after winning play after winning
10:59play yeah so you know the thing for me is did winning the championship remove any hesitation
11:09that the knicks might have had about investing in him long term because i think that i don't want to
11:15just say the fans were had trepidation the knicks had trepidation too okay the knicks were looking at
11:20this and saying i don't know i mean there were trade rumors during the season that cat talked about
11:26affecting him we know that affected him right yeah the honest talks and was a pre-season and
11:32mid-season thing i do also want to add and for people somehow because i remember seeing different
11:37reactions that some fans were like well you can't worry about that they tried to use the old don draper
11:42line from them and that's what the money is for and all this stuff and it's like no people are
11:46human
11:46beings and this stuff affects them in some way easier said than done i think cat deserves credit
11:51for even though he went through a thing felt some kind of way having the mental toughness to then change
11:56that when it mattered the most in the playoffs yeah he asked for the ball to do things with and
12:00he did it
12:01and then did it also defensively but again does that change the way the knicks feel about him
12:07investing in him long term because that's the thing we're getting to the meat of this is the value
12:12change we both agree the value change for him in the way he sees himself and maybe the way the
12:16knicks see him but does it change how they might want to invest in him long term and that's that's
12:22why
12:22the max conversation is important because it's not merely here you're willing to extend him right
12:28because i think i feel like the answer is flatly yes i think they're willing to extend he wants to
12:34extend i think all parties involved want to get a deal done at some point but it's the money like
12:41how much actual money is going to be here like i don't know this is just throwing something out there
12:48this i don't know if this is true but like there's a world where cat could want the max and
12:53the team was
12:53like whoa whoa whoa we'll do four for 200 which is 50 million a year not 68 million a year
12:58and that's
12:58like a dramatic 72 million dollar difference over four years like teams could be far apart the
13:03pistons and jalen duran still haven't come to terms because they're far apart to the point where we
13:09don't know if he's going to take the qualifying offer and just be unrestricted next year that
13:14rarely ever happens yeah although it would save the pistons a ton of money on the front end sure um
13:18we'll
13:19see what happens on the back end peyton watson same thing in denver like teams just be far apart
13:23especially with restricted free agents which this isn't but we don't know so to your point
13:29he's proven worth worthy of an extension for sure yeah agree um and we it should be mentioned 31 years
13:36old or about to be 31 years old in november so it's gonna take him to his mid-30s you
13:42do four
13:42deals can take you mid-30s and centers sometimes don't generally age well yeah and also this is about
13:47to be year 12 yeah so you're paying for 13 14 15 and 16 so this is and this is
13:56why this is part of
13:57important like this is cat's opportunity to cash out like this may be his last chance at a max contract
14:02or like a big big big contract like that you know what i mean like that this this may be
14:07his last
14:07chance at it you don't know so okay but you talked about if the team you know he says what
14:15he wants
14:15i want four for 272 i want the max and teams like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa and you countered
14:20with
14:20what'd you say four for 200 yeah right so you put him at 50 per year let's let's take let's
14:26go to the
14:26i know we're generally we're always player friendly here but let's go to the next side of things here
14:32should the knicks come to cat and say hey man you saw what the captain did why don't you follow
14:39his
14:39example here why don't you take you know maybe 113 100 million dollars if you just asked for a 72
14:46million dollar pay cut i'm gonna say push that a little bit further and maybe do what the captain
14:51did because they're gonna say hey we got to pay the captain he took the discount first if you really
14:56want to keep the band together you should you know do his day and they're gonna use that argument
15:02that brunson sacrificed that's the dangerous thing about brunson doing that to begin with yeah
15:06and and cat might sit there and be like i'm not brunson for many reasons he would say that
15:10but i'm not brunson right like so i don't have to do that i'm a big man i'm going into
15:16years 12
15:17through 16 as you just mentioned yeah um in in term of this so i guess there's a lot of
15:22things here
15:22one should the organization the knicks expect cat to do the same thing that brunson did
15:28is it fair to ask although sometimes fair and deserve have nothing to do with it
15:33right it's business especially when we're talking money a lot of times they don't i i think the
15:39major thing because people will be like well brunson sacrificed he could sacrifice too i think
15:43that's what that's what fans will say and some people are going to say you also won the title
15:48so that should make you sacrificed for the title right yeah but now they're saying now that you've
15:53won the title that should make sacrificing for others than brunson easier one might make i'm not
16:00saying i agree with that argument but one might make that argument right that okay brunson did this
16:06for the title he did it so y'all can enjoy this title now y'all gotta do this so
16:11brunson can get
16:12paid right now again i would ask people if this is your own money or your own situation at work
16:18would you be willing to do that for your teammates yeah that's that's a that's a really good question
16:23and i think a lot of people will look at this and be like why can't he just take
16:26four for 200 or four for 160 because it's still a lot of money sure but but you have a
16:31limited time
16:31to play and you and i would agree we've had many conversations about this we believe that each
16:37player in all these sports should try to maximize their own power independently because you only have
16:43so long to play yeah and if i'm cat you're not paying me less than you're paying then the calves
16:48are
16:48paying evan mobley like that's not happening and evan mobley's getting roughly 53 54 million a year
16:53so that's your line so you have a line i would say everybody's got a price and a line that's
16:58your
16:58line if you would say that would be your line if your cat let me see yours and yours aging
17:01i mean
17:01well let me see if my line is higher devin booker's getting four for 220 which is basically it's cat's
17:07current that's his man's that's cat's current contract right now yeah that's the other thing
17:11it's like you can't pay you can't even do four for 200 for example because cat will be taking a
17:17pay
17:18cut from his last contract and since then he's won a title and proven that he's more valuable
17:22to a championship than he was in that other so okay so i'm gonna do this for you because no
17:26that's a great point but i'm gonna do be his agent agent brian fonseca you're you're his agent you're
17:33talking about this with cat and let's say the knicks come to him and ask him for a discount less
17:39than even 50 mil a year right somewhere in that brunson discount i know i i'm just i'm just playing
17:46this out hypothetically that's the face you're gonna make agent brian you're gonna be like yo what's
17:50we got our title we can get a trade too like get no that is not happening because you like
17:56as i'm
17:57staring at the contracts of the different players in the nba unfair comparison but because this is a
18:04high in the worst contract draft joellen b is getting three for 187 worst contract in the league
18:10some would say i say it 62.6 a the fifth highest in the nba the only ones above him
18:17are donovan
18:17mitchell who just signed and we know that the guys who just signed tend to be the highest paid guys
18:22that's why jalen brown was the highest paid player of all time at one point and now he is like
18:28barely
18:28in the top 10 shake yelsis alexander second devin booker third on that new extension that he signed
18:35so the one that i referenced earlier is his current contract but he has two for 132 coming to him
18:40and then tatum has five for 313 that's fourth and then imbeats fifth so if i'm cat my line is
18:47probably
18:48there yannis is going to get presumably a max extension he'll be in this conversation he'll jump
18:53in this conversation again anthony davis is getting three for 175 58 million a year and he wants an
18:59extension and he wants an extension that's me so i don't give it to him but yes like the conversations
19:04with cat like if if i'm the agent yeah i'm we're starting at 60 million a year like four for
19:11240
19:11i mean well honestly we're starting at the max and we're going to see if we get that first but
19:16then as
19:16far as where we're willing to go down like it ain't below 60 million a year something like that you
19:22have
19:22a finite amount of time to cash out if you're a player like you and again this could be it
19:29he has a
19:30little bit of an injury history we don't know this could be it this is going to take him into
19:34if it's
19:35a four-year deal the 16th year of his career because it's 12 years already paid because that's
19:39this coming season it's going to take him to from 13 to 16 and 16 years of his career he'll
19:45be in his
19:45mid-30s about like 35 years old or something along those lines like you think he's getting a max at
19:5135
19:51years old no so but somebody must say you think he's getting a max now i i don't ultimately when
19:58because i do think i do think they get something done more than i don't i want to i want
20:04to be clear
20:04about that i just don't think it's going to be for the max but i still think it's going to
20:08be a lot of
20:08money okay i guess that okay this is going to get us the next place i wanted to go because
20:13you're just
20:13you're hitting on there and i like what you said about being an agent i agree with you if i
20:17was the
20:18agent i would definitely draw a line somewhere now you at first it's funny how you change your
20:24line a little bit when you looked at numbers when you had more information yeah because at first you
20:27were like evan mobley is the line no i saw mobley and then i looked up a little bit more
20:31and i was
20:32like anthony davis joelle and beat and if i'm cat why am i taking less than joelle and beat or
20:36anthony
20:36davis i get it and and nicks fans say sacrifice to win the title because brunson sacrifice and shaman
20:42sacrifice and and and um a jose alvarado sacrifice there's always a price in the line how much do
20:49you want to sacrifice right and on top of that cat has more at stake than these he's one of
20:56the
20:56oldest guys on the team understood not to say he's old but one of the older guys this is a
21:01chance to
21:01cash out brunson last last last contract we'll get in his prime brunson if things broke right which
21:07they clearly did we knew he was going to get another contract and absolutely yeah like like
21:14there was a future there like where cat is today he has to play for right now in those negotiation
21:20rooms him and his agent i agree so okay so we're there we have ruled out the max this is
21:28we do not
21:28think he's getting the max now i'm with you gotta ask i'm you have to ask you it would be
21:34irresponsible
21:35as an agent and him to not ask right are we sure he's not getting the max like are we
21:40a hundred
21:40percent sure i don't think when i talk when i talk to people about this and i and even stephan
21:48bondy
21:48and i talked about this a little bit once i think at the beginning of the offseason and he said
21:53he
21:53didn't think he would get the max i don't think so either but i don't think a lot of people
21:56think
21:56i think what the unknown is when you talk to people around the league and they cover this team is
22:02they
22:02don't know how much the discount is going to be so that's kind of where i wanted to go here
22:06what should an extension for cat actually look like because if we're saying that he's not getting
22:12the max would it be less years i think that's unlikely he's gonna get his four i was yeah i
22:17was
22:17wondering about that though would you take less years like would he take two but the whole purpose
22:24of doing that would be like a balloon payment and if you're doing a max for two years like what's
22:29the point in not doing the max for four four you know yeah it doesn't help either side doesn't help
22:35the team or doesn't help it doesn't help maintain flexibility or whatever would you try to structure
22:39the contract so it's descending salary which helps the team sure yeah in some way if i'm cat do i
22:46want
22:46to do that no here's the other thing probably not i might be willing to though because it's so much
22:53money that at that point it's like yeah whatever right you're getting so much at the front end
22:57yeah the things the teams would like to do we saw this happen with some of the deals that nicks
23:01made this offseason bring guys back partial guarantees if i'm cat's agent i'm telling you
23:06to get up out of here no no i don't want to hear the word partial guarantee player option sure
23:11nothing else we're okay we're considering nothing it's like give me the power to opt out of my own
23:17contract would you do three with a player option for it doesn't really help the team two plus one or
23:23three plus one either or two plus one or three plus one yes two plus one doesn't help you and
23:29because you're not getting you're not getting you're not getting close to the long-term security
23:33and if this team is so worried about the second apron front loading the contract i'm not sure how
23:39much sense that makes either because you want the flexibility in these next couple of years and in
23:4327 28 he becomes maybe the highest paid player in the league if you're front loading it or at least
23:49in
23:49that conversation like he's up there it takes up too much of your cap then you have to pay jaylen
23:53brunson yeah who his contract i don't think would kick in in 27 i think that'd be the following year
23:58but still not to mention what's going to happen with josh hart's extension we'll get to that so we'll get
24:03that say or i guess the other option i'll throw out for people too is right it's kind of what
24:07brian
24:08has talked about before where you take a little bit less and you get slightly below max annual value so
24:14something like 60 i know slightly below 60 to 68 doesn't sound like slightly below but it does help
24:19the team i wonder if that to me that's probably the sweet spot what you mentioned before do you do
24:25something that looks like four for 240 for 240 we're getting 60 per year because could you get it less
24:34if you're the knicks to try to give you some more flexibility i just wonder if the agent's line will
24:39be
24:39where you drew the line your i think your line is logical and reasonable yeah and i don't think
24:44people should expect all the players to take less just because brunson did i guess what we're asking
24:49i i don't i don't think because ultimately it's like these players need to cash out in a salary cap
24:54sport and the onus shouldn't be on them to take less it should be on the people actually paying them
25:01to make smarter decisions this this was something this was something i wrote about on my sub stack other
25:06side of the game which was about i i don't like the fact with the second apron some things i
25:11do like
25:12about the things i don't like about it one of the things i don't like is that you have situations
25:15like
25:15this whether it's mitch whether it's cat now we're having this conversation a player does something in
25:20winning a championship that enhances increases their value and now we're talking about them not being
25:27able to cash in on the work they did like cat did that work that you just mentioned at the
25:32top he's
25:33earned an extension he earned the extension and now whether or not do i think he's a max player no
25:38i don't what i want if i was building a team to pay a my second option as one of
25:44the highest players
25:45paid players in the league no despite what he did i'm giving him all the credit for that but i'm
25:49saying
25:49the second option is fair but yeah i generally wouldn't want to do that but should he be paid but
25:56one of the like should he have one of the 10 highest paid contracts in the nba long term probably
26:02not but here's the thing if it's your turn you're gonna be you're gonna be one of those guys right
26:08and
26:09then eventually yannis will get more this person will get more like it all it all yeah i think the
26:15way he's looking at it and the way his agent might look at it and they'll be like look i
26:20just won a title
26:21i played solid defense i changed the game for the knicks on offense and during the playoff run
26:29i looked like one of the best big men in the league and i did it when it mattered the
26:33most i looked like
26:34a two-way big man yeah which i was out playing wimby for some of the finals for two of
26:39those games
26:39and i who saw that coming because i i listen i saw what cat did through the playoffs but that
26:46good now
26:46we did a film breakdown and we saw ways and thought that he could attack wimby and all this other
26:50stuff
26:50and we were right about that in the first two games we specifically talked about some ways
26:54he could have done that i think the major question here when we talk about what should an extension
26:59look like if it's not the max it's just really like what contract gives cat the security craze i think
27:06we're right it's it's gonna be a three plus one there's gonna be a four i don't see anything less
27:10than that yeah but it still gives what knicks fans are gonna want to i know knicks fans want the
27:16band
27:16back but they if you the second apron world they're in leon you want to also give leon rose
27:21flexibility so can you have both things at the same time and you brought more of the band back
27:26than boston did and then okc appears to other teams that won titles for now for now for now for
27:34now
27:34which is to say good luck keeping the band together in this era like even in a non-second apron
27:41world
27:41it's hard to keep championship teams and championship cores together like when the celtics
27:46won in like 08 we started gradually seeing guys picked off here and there the tony allens of the
27:52world and glenn davis and so on and so forth and then eventually they had to trade like everybody
27:56you know like ray allen left and they had to trade kevin garnett and they had to trade paul pierce
28:00and it
28:00was what it was like we've seen cores fracture like that over time we saw happen with the heat with
28:05the warriors after they had runs and now it's even harder to keep those cores together like again
28:10we went into the offseason being like all right they're gonna lose mitchell robinson they might
28:15also lose shammit and maybe they keep everybody else maybe and they ended up keeping everybody but
28:21mitchell robinson essentially and ariel huckporty if you're really torn up about that someone so like
28:27i think that
28:30you have to you you can't take for granted that you kept just about everybody because now it's going to
28:37get harder because brunson is paid for and just checked because it was right earlier the next two
28:44years he is not opting into 43 million in 28 29 i think i think that that is a safe
28:50bet yeah say he
28:51is declining that player and that extension whatever it is he'll be the highest paid player in the league
28:56probably for a period of time before he ends up moving down remember jalen brown was the highest
28:59paid player and now he's like ninth he's like ninth tenth with jimmy butler and people will go crazy
29:03the same thing with jalen brown and people will crazy all the time it's all cyclical it all comes
29:07back man yeah yeah it's it's so it's whoever's turn it is that's basically what it is so if cat
29:12has a top five contract after this extension i i wouldn't be bent out of shape about it like that
29:17because one you have a title and two it's his turn and he'll in a couple years be out of
29:21the top 10
29:22so i'm glad you brought up mitchell robinson because you remember when we were doing these free
29:25agency shows pre-free agency shows i should say there were so many fans it's like i don't care money
29:30be
29:30damn apron be damn spend the money whatever i'm not saying all y'all sounded like that but that's
29:35y'all sounded like to me in my head the second apron really matters here going forward there's no way
29:43in my opinion of getting around it like it matters a ton here because what the knicks don't want to
29:47do
29:48what i what have i been saying all offseason the most important thing for the knicks going forward if
29:52they want to have cracks of continuing to defend their title is flexibility flexibility and the second
29:58aprons here through the rest of the decade now i just want to be very clear for people if you
30:04go
30:04over the sake of the second apron how does it hurt you well can't aggregate salaries there are limited
30:11ways you can make trades which also means limited ways for you to improve your roster as well too
30:17and the real hard thing as we saw with mitchell robinson not even even when you pay someone like
30:24cat more money it's going to be harder for you to keep role players and your draft picks could get
30:28frozen
30:28also like there's there's a lot that this is why no nobody's in the second apron now for that
30:34reason except i think denver temporarily is denver temporarily is yeah and then but i think that
30:40that ownership you know anything about that ownership they're going to look to get out of that and
30:44cleveland will you know cleveland's also got a lot of money committed but they'll they'll figure
30:49something out right even philadelphia with their additions to trying to make sure that they are not in
30:54the second april because they want that flexibility so i guess my thing brian is do you think keeping
30:58the championship core together which fans have valued a lot and i get it i really really do
31:03understand that you should want that and it's a shame you have to even have these conversations
31:07about it but right now look at this world in the second apron is keeping the championship core
31:14together worth sacrificing future flexibility
31:20see but that is that is the question but that's the question at the core of this that's the question
31:26it depends on what you're trying to do are you trying to see how far you can get running this
31:31back with this core or are you trying to better your future so that you could potentially win more
31:39championships not to say you can't do it with this core i i think i think people will try to
31:44say hey why
31:44can't you do both but you know it it's it's difficult to me just because of where we are in
31:52the nba i'll be surprised if they keep this core together for more than two more seasons
31:57like anything beyond that is going to be very difficult financially and that's also what brunson's
32:02contract will kick in like the next contract just put a pin in that because i want to come back
32:06to
32:06that just put a pin in that yeah to your point i think that for all these teams if you
32:14would again
32:15this part sucks i get it yeah yeah you build a good team and then you have to start worrying
32:21okay how
32:21long can i keep this championship team or this championship core together the uncomfortable truth
32:27here for the fans and it sucks for the fans i really want to stress that it sucks for the
32:34fans i don't
32:35think this is good for the fans i agree comfortable truth is the clock is ticking from the time you
32:41get
32:41to a championship contender level or you win the championship just look at the celtics just look
32:47at the thunder and what they've done this offseason the celtics traded every drew gone chris asperzinga's
32:52gone uh jalen brown gone yep they got rid of some role players too like they couldn't keep that thing
32:58together yeah they just could not and they and the celtics even talked about it after chilling
33:02trading jalen brown now granted i don't think they wanted to pay him but they were like hey they
33:07did the first time and then you saw what happened and then okc just got rid of for only draft
33:13picks
33:13just to save money lou dort isaiah joe aaron wiggins and wiggins good three good players three good
33:19players who will all play the two-way players yes who will all play in their next destination right
33:24and my point is once you win or you get to this level depending on where you are in your
33:30team
33:30building like san antonio's a little bit different because they're younger but the clock is always
33:33ticking yeah because you have to pay guys you have to extend guys the clock is always ticking and what
33:37i'm about to say i know it's not going to feel good for the nick fan nothing lasts forever and
33:43these
33:44things are shorter these these windows are shorter they're tighter all you can ask for your team
33:50whether you like it or not in this era is can you try to keep the window open as long
33:56as you can
33:57yeah and then could you be able if you have a star which your next do in jail and brunson
34:01can you be
34:01able to retool quickly to try to get back to that level with some new pieces now i'm not saying
34:06that's
34:06easy it's a lot easier said than done but that is the thing now i asked you to put a
34:14pin in something
34:14right there because to me the question that you were kind of asking when you talked about the core
34:25and keeping this core together is are the knicks better off betting on this core that they've seen
34:33win a championship that fans are proud of that they put together leon rose i'm sure is proud of that
34:38he
34:38put together or is it about replenishing that depth and trying to keep this thing moving in another
34:45way so what's the bet here are you betting on this core is going to get you another title or
34:52two
34:53or are you saying ah if we keep if we try to get this depth better on this team try
35:00hit on some draft
35:00picks make some other smart trades consolidate in some ways is that the better because that to me is
35:06another there's a lot of key questions around cat and i i think this is such a good discuss this
35:11um
35:12discussion because the way i would say look at it is like okay let's look at this as a five
35:17-year
35:17outlook so i'm going a little but hold on you'll you'll hear me on this because if you are extending
35:23cat right and that money is tied up this is what you're talking about okay there's a right because
35:28yeah like just because it's one and then the four right so you gotta think that's why i chose brunson's
35:33getting whatever four or five years whatever it is so to me the question is just in the next five
35:39years i can't tell you how to look how it's gonna look i can't tell you what's exactly gonna happen
35:44but is it better to lock in cat and have him under contract as you said going through seasons what
35:5013
35:50through 16 or is it about preserving the ability to keep upgrading around your star in jail and brunson
36:00what because that's really the question do you want to upgrade around jail and brunson keep your
36:06depth maybe give yourself more depth than you even have right now or is it better to lock cat in
36:11for
36:12those next four years if you lock cat in it's like that's he's part of the core then so then
36:21the
36:21what what it becomes after is is i'm looking at the deals now og is 42.5 and then 45
36:30so even og is
36:31going to be extension eligible pretty soon because he has a player option after that for 48 million
36:36after the next two seasons when you pay brunson og will be extension eligible which means you're
36:42going to have to pay him too like that we haven't even talked about that part of it somebody's what
36:48you're saying and all that somebody's gonna get traded at some point and i'm not even saying i
36:52don't i don't think it's possible to keep the court and if it's not any of those three then it
36:58might be
36:58both of mikhail bridges and josh hart like that's how it could be in the nba now unless you decide
37:04to
37:04just everyone just figures out financially how to just take whatever amount of money it takes just keep
37:10it together but then you have to build a bench because obviously you can't win a title without like
37:15it's gonna be like you're gonna sacrifice something this is why again be glad you won a
37:20championship this is why now you see why teams aren't repeating in this day and age it's hard we
37:25haven't even talked about denver who was like the first victim of this but they won in 2023 and a
37:31part
37:31of this is their uh owner ceo whatever does not want to spend money like just does not want to
37:39spend
37:39that much money and also spent poorly with the christian brown contract and that is gonna maybe
37:45costum peyton watson in some form we'll see peyton watson keeps partying with michael porter jr in new
37:51york city so i i don't even know if he's gonna be like be with the nuggets next year um
37:55mikhail
37:56bridges by the way he got his contract 33 36 38 39 really and then 41.5 you don't have
38:03to worry about
38:03him for now except what except unless you have to trade him but and then and then say that's a
38:10very trade friendly contract and then josh hart josh hart is 20 and then 22 20.9 so really 21
38:18this
38:18coming year and then 22.3 team option for next year which is gonna be very interesting with the
38:24nicks do with that yeah like it like i was like you so on paper is he worth that yes
38:30however
38:32if you're trying to do like cat is not under contract for that season yet
38:38so you don't even know what the book you don't fully know what the books are gonna look like right
38:41you know what brunson's getting you know what og's getting you know what mikhail's getting you
38:45don't know what cat is getting no idea cat right now will be on the books for a player option
38:48for 61
38:49million if he signs an extension let's say he signs extension you said and it's 240 let's say
38:57that well he'd be taking a pay cut right so like if that if you do the start unless it's
39:04unless it's
39:04front loaded unless it starts at like 65 and comes down or whatever that doesn't really help the nicks
39:11flexibility wise we don't like i can't guarantee i still don't know what the books will look i can't
39:15guarantee you josh hart's gonna be here even after this season is basically the point like you
39:20would think oh yeah they'll just take his team options 22 million whatever whatever but like i
39:25just saw this happen with lou dory who was an integral part of a championship team who the
39:30entire purpose of him and his option being accepted who by the way is younger not a better player than
39:36josh hart necessarily but younger a better defender though like an all-world defender even though this
39:41last year kind of fell off a little bit but still i think that's a pretty apt comparison and what
39:49do
39:49they get from just draft picks to save money because they had now you got to work in mara now
39:55you got to
39:56work in these new guys is thomas sorber going to give you anything is nicola topich going to give you
40:00anything uh like you also have aj mitchell you also have um jared mccain who need to play like
40:11you know they have they have like champagne problems but it's still problems right and
40:16look when you win you're gonna have these problems this is why i'm like two more years
40:20two more years is my expectation and that it might it might really be one
40:25i agree and that's another conversation as we get down people don't want to hear that i know i get
40:29it
40:30but like this is the this is the reality this is what leon rose is dealing with this is what
40:35all
40:35these front offices are dealing with like it's not as simple as like yo you go in 2k and you
40:40have
40:41the bar at the end that tells you how much the player is interested in the contract and you make
40:44everyone take less and you're good you know what i mean like that's not how this works if we could
40:48see that bar for cat right now we'd have a lot more information to work with but we don't have
40:52that bar
40:53all right so i guess let's close on this let's try to give a final verdict because if you're leon
40:59rose
40:59you just mentioned you said it's not that easy for leon rose i agree it's not that easy for the
41:04players either i want to say that too because if let's say let's also talk about this from the human
41:08standpoint if you like where you're playing cat seems to love being back home yes in new york city
41:14he likes his next team he's been through it he's embraced the crowd embraced the city all this other
41:20stuff and you won here you know what it's like to win here all right what's that worth to you
41:26while you're balancing the fact of the limited time that you have to play this sport of basketball
41:31at a high level what's that worth if you yes some of you out there will say well you could
41:36just take
41:36a whole pay cut jail and brunson did and blah blah blah except that's not your money that's not you
41:40yeah i'm not going to be draymond green out here counting other men's pockets we're not doing that
41:45right but it's different for every player in every situation it's also different for every team
41:51in every situation although they're all playing under the same rules of trying to stay under the
41:57second apron so if you're leon rose how you playing this what what what do you what are you doing
42:04if
42:05you're leon rose are you even going to offer him start off with an offer less than the max yes
42:10you
42:10have you can't you can't offer the max outright now if your cat and his agent you ask you have
42:15to ask
42:15for the max do you even do the extension this year for leon rose do you maybe wait another year
42:19kick this down the road that's a possibility too here though we didn't even talk about it is but
42:23if you're cat you ain't trying to hear that because you know i know i know what i would say
42:28if i'm the
42:28agent if the team tells me they're trying to kick it down the road trade and i know next fans
42:33don't
42:33want to hear that either right but sometimes that's how a player has to play it to try to gain
42:36some
42:37leverage right because if you're cat listen if cat were an nfl player he'd be holding out
42:42like he might he might be just he might just be doing not that he definitely would but like this
42:46is
42:46what nfl players do all the time and i always support nfl players doing that because the way
42:51that game is so violent and their contract nba players get way more guaranteed money than they
42:56do right like nfl contracts you'd be like wait this dude signed for five for 125 and it's like 40
43:01million guaranteed so the first year and part of the second so i guess it's a two-part question for
43:05me if you're when i say if you what would you do if you're leon rose are you trying to
43:10get this
43:10extension done as soon as possible are you trying to kick this down the road another year
43:14or you're trying to offer him i'll even say the your contract the four for 240 which i like i
43:22probably start there knowing because cat like if cat has to want more than that given unless he
43:32really doesn't care unless he's really like yo i'm locked in here but i don't care what mb's getting
43:38i don't care what mobley's getting i don't care what anthony davis getting i don't care what any of
43:41these guys are getting i don't care that my player option is 61 million and if my contract
43:46is an ascending contract that then two four for 240 will start me lower because i would probably end
43:52up somewhere in the 60s i would start off in like the mid to high 50s and then climb up
43:56year by year
43:57by year like i don't know i'd love like we we we have a lot of unanswered questions in terms
44:03of who
44:03cares about what here so but if it's me if i'm the agent i'm asking for the max like you
44:10have to
44:10you have to do it you just have to in any walk of life bad business not you have to
44:14ask for more
44:15than you think you're going to get in this situation the most that you can't get yeah
44:20in any negotiation like period okay like in any job you're at you ask for more than you think you
44:25and always counter yeah and always counter now if but if you're if you're leon rose
44:33that first offer cannot be it cannot be close to the max i don't think what's your first offer
44:41it might be four for 240 i'm it might be might be less than that it might be four for
44:46200 like you
44:47said before 220 or something like that like 55 i would now if it was me personally and again i'm
44:53not cat
44:53i feel like the four for 200 is a little insulting that's that's why i can't i did
44:57but is between four for 220 and four for two if you do four for 222 that's 50 million less
45:03than the max
45:05which is 12 and a half million a year basically which is a lot that's a lot of that's a
45:11big
45:11difference but like you can start there and whatever but if i'm cat i'm trying to get this
45:15done now because i am not trying to start the season tear my acl and then what so if you're
45:19cat
45:20the minimum you'd be willing to sign for is you do that four for 260 four for 240 the 60
45:25per
45:27an av i can maybe is that your i'm just you is that the minimum is that the line where
45:33you just
45:33you know you i'm not going below that maybe that might be the line but i that the line might
45:39be
45:39higher might have to be a little bit higher i just this is what makes it so like this is
45:43the
45:43this is a chance to cash out but it's so fascinating what's the line for him what's the line for
45:47leon
45:47and you could also say like four for 240 but it's new york city he he'll make make it up
45:52in
45:52endorsements yeah like he'll get a like he has raising canes he'll get god knows how many other
45:56endorsements like it it might be fine like it might just be okay you're a champion in new york
46:00forever you can make up a lot of that money and that that's an i think that's the point that
46:04a lot
46:05of knicks fans will bring up i think that's easier said than done because at the end of the day
46:08like this is like cat will not make more money than he's about to make in his life
46:12and the story like and the full stop like this is the chance to do that and set up
46:17your your family um your family who has been through a lot for generational wealth like again
46:25i'm not i'm not i'm never going to be here siding with the billionaires on this correct
46:29that i'm not going to be doing and these players i know they're millionaires and they make a lot of
46:34money but again if you have the chance to do something you love for a limited time i guess we
46:39all do
46:39for a limited time but in terms of sports and athletics it's an extremely limited time work
46:44right you're not having it's not you have a 30 40 year career of this this is where i support
46:49the
46:49players if it's me i think the line you said a four for 260 feels like a fair deal for
46:54both sides
46:54240 excuse me 60 per now look if it was four for 255 would i be and cat signed that
47:01and took even more
47:02of a discount even like a four for 250 i might be a little bit shocked for cat but i'd
47:06understand it
47:07because there's some line of where what's going to come down as to the knicks are going to value
47:11flexibility as i understand trying to run a business cat is going to try to value getting
47:16a longevity and also being in a place that he loves playing and hopefully playing with the guys
47:20he likes playing with for a longer period of time yeah does everything always work out beautifully in
47:25these situations no no negotiations are tough in fact none of them have for any of the championships
47:30than any of the championship teams here's the here's the thing we'll wrap on this at the end of
47:35the day i don't know how long this core is going to be together this is a big decision for
47:43the knicks
47:43in terms of how long this core could be together or how much longer this core that you've seen
47:48can defend their title there will be more decisions to come and there will be tough decisions to come
47:54and possibly some moves and some trades that will make people uncomfortable this isn't going to last
47:59forever because nothing does nothing nothing does championship cores don't last forever they don't
48:04last as long as they used to yeah it's an unfortunate reality of the second apron i understand people
48:09will watch this video hit this discussion and be frustrated more frustrated than they were before
48:14but they're gonna tell some people might even say why are you talking about this
48:17you know you like because it's my job you're right
48:23well you put the negative vibes out there like we control that like no not putting negative vibes out
48:27here we're having a discussion with nuance about how all this could work that the knicks are having
48:33and or have had had and we don't know if there's been communication between
48:36kat and his agent and the knicks i think i'm sure that they're sure they've already reached out yeah
48:41we'll hear more on this i'm kind of not surprised that it hasn't happened at this point in the summer
48:45i think the interest really are you no i'm not surprised oh i'm not surprised no yeah i'm not
48:50surprised that it hasn't happened yeah i'm not i think the interesting thing is do we start to hear
48:54any more chatter about this as we get closer to september as we get closer to training camp
48:59that's the thing for me and does this get done before the start of season or is this kicked down
49:05a year from now now look last thing i'll say if we kick down a year from now i don't
49:10think that
49:11makes cat and his side happy also if you're the knicks you kind of do want to know something you
49:16mentioned which is you kind of want to know what your books are looking like two years from now
49:19so you can then decide what you want to do to give yourself more financial flexibility
49:25but some teams may look at it and say don't have to commit until we have to right yeah it's
49:32it's
49:32tough man it's it's it's it's all tough but let us know in the comments what do you think what
49:37do
49:37you think the knicks should do what would you do if you were leon rose what would you do if
49:40you
49:40were currently towns what kind of extension should the knicks offer towns what kind of extension do you
49:46think catches how do you guys think maybe there should not be an extension at all just time for
49:50the knicks to move on i'm sure some someone out there probably thinks that's a possibility either
49:54way this is the new second apron world that we are in in the nba as the knicks offseason continues
50:01that's going to do it for this edition of new york got game don't laugh brian these decisions are
50:05someone i know someone's going to be like just trade them for trey murphy and herb jones and something
50:10else i just know it i just know it like we're gonna we're gonna get we're gonna get cat trade
50:14machine
50:15things which look if to be fair if reports come out that they're far apart we might break out the
50:21trade machine too be like all right we got to see i don't want to just in case but i
50:26don't i'd be
50:26surprised if that's that's where this heads sounds like a future cat seems very happy in new york he
50:31does sounds like a future episode possibly i hope we don't have to do it but possibly all right that's
50:36gonna do it for this edition of new york got game he's brian fonseca i'm dexter henry we'll catch you
50:41next time on another edition of new york got game peace
50:46and thanks for watching new york got game boom shakalaka
50:50you
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