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00:00To learn how to use a camera is very easy, and it's very fast, and one must learn, see how
00:07many film amateurs are all over the world, so to be a little bit better than them, that's all, and
00:13after that one must have ideas, and I think it's wrong, even wrong, to get models and to try to
00:23copy models or to get aesthetic frames
00:28and to put, each one must be himself, that's, I think, is the main thing.
00:33How did you get started in the cinema? What, what was the first thing that...
00:37Well, I have started in a very funny way. My father was rich, and I was a bad boy, not
00:47doing anything, you know?
00:50So, because I was, what they call today, a playboy, it's funny to be at my age, I was a
00:56playboy,
00:57and so I, where you go, just in the world of the show, and so theater and movie, etc.
01:08And after the death of my father, we get broken very easily, also because I spend a lot of money,
01:14so I have to earn some money and have to do something,
01:16and because that was the world, who I know very well, so I was accepted there, and they started to
01:23work there.
01:26Yeah.
01:27You said once that you, that when I asked you who were the filmmakers in the past who had the
01:33most inspired you,
01:36or made you like the cinema, and you said Murnau.
01:38Yeah.
01:38I wonder if you might elaborate. They've seen two films by Murnau here, or three films, those four are two.
01:45Last Laugh, Lavinianism, and The Crown.
01:49The Crown.
02:02The Crown.
02:03They've also been coming up.
02:06No, no.
02:07In general...
02:08but, even if you get the Hollywood production at the time, more now like Van Dyke or King Vigor.
02:16They were quite different.
02:22you know this question is a question of geometry you know geometry purely geometry you know you
02:30get somebody say well you say that and when you are arrived at that word you turn suddenly and
02:37you say those four other words and like after that you look at the at the wall you know that
02:43is the only way to to to to get the material in hand because and that's the reason why the
02:51professional actor are very unhappy with me very because you do say things like that yes
02:58it's purely geometry you see it's no more than that right on the set doesn't take a long time
03:04for the actor to learn the script and then well yes a little bit somebody or we write down the
03:10thing here and there somebody screaming yelling saying things you don't really like give them
03:16time to learn it anyway do you know because you know what I am afraid and that's I'm very serious
03:22on that if you give a dialogue to an actor immediately the first thing of an actor a real actor
03:32is to see
03:33how I can interpret that thing so you see him it's not more anymore my character you see that and
03:40if
03:40you allowed him to do that you have to make to make a tremendous effort to demolish that thing to
03:46go
03:46again so if with the improvisation yeah so with the improvisation it's no chance for them to build ideas
03:54you start off with a treatment film and then do you get does someone finance or I don't understand
04:00anything about finance well I don't know why but I have always found the money to do the thing you
04:06know the first way to be finance is to make debts so you start with the debts and after somebody
04:14will
04:15provide something you know that's that was a very simple philosophy because I remember when you came
04:30the last time you said that really the character was just someone you knew you know you just sort of
04:36you know well I found a man the the main thing for the Louis XIV was to found somebody very
04:44short and
04:45very strong so so you know you are not a tremendous choice for example now I made a film on
04:52on the
04:55Cosimo de MĂ©dicis you know in the Italian Renaissance so it's the beginning of the modern economy is the
05:02beginning of the banking is the month is the beginning of our modern world and there are a couple of
05:10portrait of Cosimo de MĂ©dici and he's so typical so particular he had such a nose who is absolutely
05:20incredible very difficult to find so I search for a nose I didn't search for Cosimo de MĂ©dici and finally
05:27I found that nose in a in a nightclub somebody you know those not he sell the tickets but he
05:35controlled
05:36the things at the door and he has the nose so I pick up him and he has played Cosimo
05:41de MĂ©dici and he's very good
05:50yes I have some people around you they search for so I give them very precise instruction and the doctors
06:00people to me and so I say well that's as really the nose I need and and I go on
06:07like that but this ticket
06:09ticket taker maybe never made a test in my life this ticket taker you had no idea whether or not
06:14he
06:14could act but then you said once you don't really require listen no no listen you can made a design
06:21moving you can imagine how you cannot make a man moving it's so it's a question of a little bit
06:29of
06:29passions or and technique that's no more than that surely you must get advantage also of the wrong things
06:38you know if you want idealized the the character in such a way well it's impossible then I use what
06:46what I have in my hands how do you make the man move and perform when he has perhaps he
06:53has no talent
06:54to say the lines that you're not worried about I mean he has no talent to perform as an actor
06:59would perform
06:59no what are some of the devices that you would use how it to make him move and create what
07:05you move to move
07:06you say well you come from here you go there when you are there you turn you go there you
07:12know that
07:12that's purely physical movement
07:15are you speaking to him while the camera was taking the film no no no because you get too confused
07:24but I'll tell him you know you put with the crane the sign all over and he knows where to
07:30go his first
07:31position second position third position third but that's all that's he's a well I have to spend a little
07:40time with each one of those main character just to invite them for dinner or lunch and to be with
07:47them
07:48and talk so I realize what they are the usual movement that they do see so I must I must
07:57know well them
07:59so you let them repeat what they do in general in life and they feel after the the first shock
08:07they feel so it is
08:08because they move always the muscles they are they have the habit of moving in real life but they don't
08:15know you know
08:15so they should say well it's so simple and they go on and they are excited so you give them
08:21things to do
08:22yes all the time but then your films people talk a lot there is a problem with getting the dialogue
08:28out
08:28well they learn they learn the dialogue and what they don't learn we can either you hear a line there
08:38another line you know written somewhere and so it's
08:42I understand but it's the interpretation of that I mean generally people
08:45you know because well it's another kind of thing it all depends of the kind of film that you made
08:53if it's a show if it's theater you must interpret the thing you must underline the thing you must give
09:01any sort of significance to the thing
09:03when when you do the filming you do that with the camera and so that's sufficient that somebody
09:11goes ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba ba and say the things
09:15you mean they say the words but they don't do it
09:18no they say the words we redubbed with other voice later on
09:22you dubbed the other voice later
09:25what would you say the most importantly about directing is I mean how do you how
09:29well first of all I want to know how you learn directing and then I want to know how you
09:34direct
09:34and then thirdly what is most important and those techniques
09:37I don't know I learned directing because I never was the assistant of anybody and I start
09:45knowing well a little bit about the the the the about the job so I have done some cutting I
09:56have done some dubbing I have done
10:00the that's the reason why I hate so much of the script because I have done a lot of scripts
10:06for thirst people you know
10:08so then there's no other thing but you have to start and go
10:14when you're on the set and you're directing a scene what what do you think the job your job is
10:21there what are you to get
10:22to control everything that's all it's very simple to have the control and to be aware of everything
10:29that's all the the if you combine properly the movement of the so-called actors and the movement of the
10:37camera
10:37you have solved the problem you've spoken that told me once before that the seed of voyage and intellect
10:46came from seeing these these bodies the petrification of the bodies and Herculaneum
10:54could you speak about what that represented for you and what made you think so that you began to develop
11:00this story
11:01but you see I was in Pompeii when the man who was making the research he found a house called
11:13and the house was called the house of Julia Felice Julia is a name and Felice means happy the happy
11:21Julia
11:22and that's a very strange story because he found that house digging and he found in the house the symbols
11:34of
11:35Isis the goddess the Egyptian goddess and it was the only house at that moment discovering Pompeii with Isis images
11:44and two three years oh one thing he knows that the girl she has very round beautiful arm
11:51because you know the bracelet they were put it here so the bracelet that he found at home of that
12:00girl of that woman
12:02give exactly the shape of the arm of the girl you know so and he was very seduced by the
12:08girl
12:08because the house was damaged by an earthquake so the purpose to rebuild the house which is one of the
12:16most beautiful house in Pompeii
12:18she built in the corner of the house a little bath very luxurious little bath and a place where the
12:30people they were drinking
12:31and playing the games the day what you call dice and things like that so he admired a great deal
12:41that girl with those round beautiful arms
12:44and one day he was called because see the ashes of the Vesuvium came in coming down was like snow
12:53you know to cover the whole thing
12:55and the bodies consumed inside left an empty space so when you are working you hear the sound of something
13:06empty
13:07so they made a little hole and they put inside the what do you call that the plaster and they
13:15get the form of the body
13:16so they found the the form of a body of a woman of a man and of a mule
13:25and that girl she has in her one of her arm a package with some jewel and a little statue
13:34of Isis
13:34so you recognize Julie Felicia you know so the tremendous things that life is well is there all the time
13:44he's another human being but his life is going on you know it's seems to me so so extraordinary
13:50and we are living on those kind of things in Italy especially for example I live my home is I
13:57have the garden
13:58on top of the catacomb of San Sebastiano and you have no idea the ashes of the saints are good
14:06they are for the soil you know
14:10we grow cabbage like that high like that tremendous you know it's a but it's a saint too you know
14:17it's a cabbage and saint in the meantime so
14:23ma'am so the the idea that came out of this for you was that our life today and it's
14:30somehow a prolongation
14:32a little bit like that and was also the moment that I start to know a little bit more directly
14:39the the so-called Anglo-Saxon world you know it's completely different in behavior and thinking and feeling from us
14:48so I think it was a good comparison to put two English people inside Italy to get in here in
14:56here in here in the house in Italy everything is shocking you know for that the the the main thing
15:01was the
15:03hygiene hygiene or thing like that and there they are thinking in terms of spaghetti or bodies and things like
15:09that that seems so obvious to us
15:14this is why the main character Joyce comes to take his inheritance from Homer
15:27the um but the backgrounds then really were constantly reflecting this theme was to me because the theme was the
15:38contrast between that English couple and the reality of Italy you know always shocking you know
15:49the fact that the English and the Anglo-Saxon world is so different from the Italian it is finally the
15:56Italian heritage isn't it that bring them together at the end something about that
16:02well I don't know if they know I the feeling or at least the reason of the scene was that
16:09that all the Italian they were short and they were very tall and English is very tall and poor Sanders
16:16was very very tall you know so there was those two pinnacles walking in a crowd of short people and
16:26when the miracles start there everybody fell in his own needs they were they are completely naked what to do
16:32so they grab to do so they grab to each other you know that's which produces a sense of miracle
16:36for them well it's not a real miracle but you know they felt so suddenly evident to everybody you know
16:48it's a moment of embarrassment no more than that
16:56the film represents in the way you use the camera the first time that you are using really long traveling
17:05shots could you tell about how you came at using those shots
17:12well because I think it's important to find the language the most possible clear and clean
17:22see in general and we know very well that and that was at the time especially but even now
17:29a la mode to do film completely in another way you know more the camera was crazy or unexpected that
17:39was the good thing but it seems to me that one get tremendously confused you don't understand where you are
17:46who is talking to whom you know it's very confusing cutting all the time so and I don't like those
17:55I don't like those
17:56more so the bravour what you can say that ability and I thought that was very important to go to
18:03a very straight very simple language a very straight language is more understandable I think
18:10also you seem to remain in mostly in medium shot with your figures yes because it is a way not
18:18to seduce to you know to remain in the observation of the facts
18:22it's important to see somebody and to see what is around him because it's
18:28it's always that that give the things
18:32that the depth gives
18:33well give the real measure of a man
18:37this also that enabled you to unite the people with the setting
18:41yes
18:41which is something that other films
18:43well the set is very important you know because
18:46is always are all the ingredients and one must use but
18:51who
18:52our feeling everyday feelings what they are we got out is a good weather outside and we feel happy because
19:01the air is good and so the light is like we like the light
19:06we are influenced by this kind of thing all the time all the time and why not to try to
19:14use that in film
19:16I don't know if I have achieved but that's at least what I tried to do and I am very
19:22stubborn I continue to do those kind of things
19:24you see
19:25to unite the people with what's around them
19:28yeah
19:29yeah you also make the landscape almost a character I mean in the importance
19:34surely but the landscape is a character
19:37yeah
19:37yeah
19:38is a character
19:39think
19:40you go back home
19:42and today you go back home with a mood
19:45tomorrow you will go back home with another mood
19:48and a great deal is influenced by the weather outside by the surely also the accident that you have in
19:56your life everyday you know but
19:58that sort of thing if you are very depressed and the atmosphere outside is a very good atmosphere you get
20:05a little bit relieved
20:07it's not true
20:09and we that's that's a thing that we have all the time
20:12so if you want to describe a character you must put all this kind of thing if you want the
20:19character more complex
20:21but your films the background does more especially in Voyage than describe the mood of the character it comments
20:29well but surely it comments also because there is the contrast you see for example those two people they don't
20:36want to have children
20:37because their own view economical view of life prevent them from having children
20:43and you see around all those women with a
20:47with the abdomen like that so that
20:52a different way of seeing life you know or approaching life
20:56so it's almost
20:59making a criticism of the couple
21:02yeah it's not a criticism it's an analysis I think
21:10why do you say you're interested in education
21:13because I am interested in education I don't know
21:15you know I
21:17that happen
21:18when
21:18the morning get up and it's crazy suddenly and that's what happened to me
21:23and I think we knew we know so little at least I feel that I know very very little
21:29and I'm very curious and so I want to know I don't want to be bored in life you know
21:40it's my main purpose
21:41and I thought it was very boring in making normal film so I turn to do those kind of things
21:49what about normal films for you
21:51I don't know I don't know because I made that those normal films for a few years and after all
21:58well it was an experience made you see
22:00and what you do
22:03you continue always to repeat the same kind of thing you know that's uh
22:08how does this differ from a normal film in your
22:10and the kind of films you said that you make is phenomenal
22:13but that's an historical essay so it's a curiosity to go to research to found
22:19to put together things etc
22:21that's the it's completely another kind of procedure
22:25in a film you must inventing here you have to collect things completely different approach
22:37I don't want to say teaching historical fact or moral
22:42I don't want to teach any moral to anybody
22:45because I think that each one of us must be free to found his own moral
22:51but to found his own moral we must base that on in a certain kind of knowledge
22:59and I think that today we are so confused by a lot of slogan
23:10and we think that those slogans is the truth and is the knowledge
23:14and the slogan is always only a slogan
23:17you know I just finished a film on Socrates
23:20and Socrates say to us in a certain moment of the dialogue
23:24you know perhaps the dialogue of Plato
23:27he says the thing was so clear
23:30he says the world is full of opinion
23:33and completely empty of knowledge
23:36now we are full of opinion and we have no knowledge
23:40so I think it's wise at least some fool try to reach the knowledge
23:47or try to put together a certain kind of knowledge
23:50because otherwise we live always on opinions
23:53and the opinion is something that is good today
23:58and tomorrow is gone completely
24:03how does this film differ in its plot in your mind from a normal film
24:10a normal film is based on an invention
24:15it's completely another kind of thing
24:17if you have Errol Flynn playing Louis XIV
24:21you must give something to Errol Flynn
24:26so he must win battle
24:28he must have a duel every two scenes
24:30when he gets dressed he must have a duel with the tailor
24:35you know it's completely another kind of thing
24:42how many things were said about neorealism
24:45it's absolutely incredible
24:46and to me the neorealism is mainly the moral position
24:52second is the invention of new technical method
24:57in the purpose to make film escaping from the big church of a studio
25:07and nobody underlined that aspect
25:10who is the main aspect
25:12going out into the streets into the location
25:15well to forget
25:16if you don't have a good quality of photography you care
25:22what is important is what you have to say
25:25no no he said
25:26before it was absolutely maniac
25:28I remember
25:30to have one day outdoor in a studio
25:34was the moment of the big emotion of the whole studio
25:37and the day of work outside was a truck
25:41or a carousel going in a garden
25:46to risk so much
25:48and to wait an hour
25:49till the light come through that
25:52you know it's absolutely incredible
25:54what is important is what you have to say
25:57if the photograph is good better
26:00but if it's not good it's the same
26:02the main thing is to say things
26:04you see
26:05another thing though that is quite
26:07the key grew out of a new realism was this
26:10was the
26:11the kind of shot that was taken
26:14rather than
26:15lots of close-ups and lots of cutting
26:17there seemed to be
26:19even a yours and the seekers
26:21in
26:23cast
26:23castellani
26:24all of these
26:25where there were
26:26there were more flowing shots
26:28shots on traveling
26:29yes
26:30the sequence shots
26:32sequence shots
26:42and
26:43it's
26:43you
26:43return
26:44to your British Isles
26:51yes
26:52yes
26:53how do you like that
26:55we could have
26:56or
26:57you missed out on your time
26:59did you
27:00even
27:06to
27:17You see, perhaps I am a fool, I don't know, but what to do?
27:23You know, in La Rochefoucauld, one of the maxims of La Rochefoucauld is so beautiful.
27:28It says, when somebody becomes older, become more crazy and more wise.
27:35In the same time.
27:40If you are lucky, you become both.
27:42But I hope, I hope.
27:44And to save craziness is very important.
27:47Yes. L'amour et le soi.
27:49L'amour et le soi.
28:05L'amour et le soi.
28:10L'amour et le soi.
28:15L'amour et le soi.