- 1 day ago
Mark Zuckerman believes the next week will ultimately determine what Washington does at the trade deadline next week.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Long-time friend of the program, Mr. Mark Zuckerman.
00:04Mark, what's up, man? You've been busy.
00:06Yeah, but you know what? It's nice to be busy this time of year, guys.
00:10And busy not because I'm just writing about guys being traded away,
00:14but actually some interest in bringing guys in and trying to win this year.
00:17It's been a while since we've been in that position.
00:19Yeah, man. It's very cool.
00:22Everybody should check out Mark's work covering the Washington Nationals,
00:25NatsJournal.com, and the Nats Chat Podcast.
00:27You can give him a follow at Mark Zuckerman.
00:31Let's start with the trade. Mead for early.
00:34What do we make of this? Big picture and just in an envelope?
00:38Well, I mean, that's not, first of all, just not the kind of trade you see very often.
00:42Big leaguer for big leaguer, both of them with, you know,
00:45four-plus years of control before they can be a free agent.
00:48And so you just don't see that kind of thing in season under normal circumstances.
00:53And when I first saw that the other night when it broke late Saturday night,
00:59my thought was, wow, I would not have thought that Curtis Mead could get you a guy like Connelly Early.
01:06And I get that Mead has been fantastic for the Nationals,
01:11a huge part of their offense this year.
01:13And as I said, a guy who's got four more years of control.
01:16He wasn't going to be going anywhere for a while.
01:19But Connelly Early is a 24-year-old left-hander who's got five years of control,
01:26who's already got a track record of success in the big leagues,
01:28who has already started a winner-take-all playoff game at Yankee Stadium last October.
01:34However, for a team that we know needs pitching and not just in the short term but in the long
01:40term,
01:41it's hard to dispute that move to pick him up because what this is,
01:45this is a guy who, yes, it's about the long term and trying to make sure you have a team
01:49that can be successful for years, but it's also a guy who can help you now.
01:54And so it's one of these, like, both buy and sell at the same time.
01:58And I really respect Paul Tivoni for taking that kind of approach.
02:01This is not we're trading away our best players because we're looking three years down the road.
02:06This is, yeah, we're protecting ourselves three years down the road,
02:09but we're also trying to win right now, and this guy can help us do that.
02:13What would you anticipate the next move being?
02:18Well, I mean, they're going to pick up a couple of relievers.
02:21I really do believe that.
02:23If Tivoni is, if we're taking him at his word,
02:25and what he said yesterday was that essentially this team has earned the right
02:30to try to win this year, that they would be foolish to try to break that up,
02:34he said they have an it factor.
02:36Okay, that sounds to me like a guy who understands they're not going anywhere,
02:40and what's their number one need?
02:42It's a bullpen.
02:42We've known that all year long.
02:44Sure.
02:44Now, are they going to be huge moves?
02:46Maybe not, but I could see them trading away lesser prospects for some relievers,
02:51maybe rental relievers.
02:52It'd be great if you get somebody who'd be here beyond this year to try to patch that up.
02:56I think where it really gets interesting is, you know,
02:59we're one week away now from the trade deadline on Monday.
03:02How they play this week, so against the Blue Jays the next three days,
03:05and then against the Braves over the weekend,
03:07I think goes a long way towards determining what else they might do.
03:12And the big name there to me is Foster Griffin.
03:15If you have a good week and you're right in the thick of this race,
03:19and you're not being offered something that just blows you away for him,
03:23I think he stays because he's a part of trying to help you win this year,
03:26even though he is a free agent at the end of the year.
03:29If, though, you have a bad week and you fall back out of the race a little bit,
03:32maybe you're under .500 at the end of the week,
03:34I think you do have to listen to serious offers for him.
03:37You don't just trade him for anything, but if you get anything decent,
03:40I do think you have to do that.
03:41So I really think this week plays a big role in how they're going to approach this.
03:45Any chance Foster Griffin get an extension from this team?
03:49It's hard to see it happening now, this week.
03:54I understand why it's easy for fans to say,
03:56hey, lock the guy up.
03:57Like, why wouldn't you want him?
03:58Of course, everybody would want that.
04:00But it's hard to do because how do you value exactly what he is?
04:06As a 30-year-old who came back from Japan, doesn't have a track record,
04:09this is the one time in his career he's going to have a chance to be a free agent.
04:13If you're him and you're his agent,
04:15are you just saying, yeah, I'll sign for whatever you guys want to offer me,
04:18or are you saying, I'm having the year of my life.
04:22Wait until the winner and I can negotiate with 30 other teams
04:25and actually choose where I go and how much I make.
04:29It doesn't mean he couldn't come back to the Nats at the end of all that,
04:31but I can understand it.
04:33It's not as easy as it sounds to say, oh, just throw him some money
04:37and he'll agree to that right now.
04:40We'll see.
04:40I'm not going to say never, but I can understand why it would complicate matters.
04:44I'll try to make that happen next week.
04:47Zuck, with Griffin specifically, the extension, I get what you're saying,
04:55that this is his big chance to pop a very large contract.
05:01I wonder if they had gone to Griffin six weeks ago, two months ago,
05:05to talk about one, if it would have been a different situation
05:08before he's named to the All-Star team and all these things.
05:10Was there any discussion, you think, around that?
05:13Well, I know a lot of us were wondering at the time,
05:16and I raised the topic with Foster about maybe two months ago,
05:20and he just kind of shrugged it off and was like, well, you know,
05:23that's not my department.
05:24My agent handles that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
05:26I have no idea if the Nats did approach him at that time
05:30and if they did, how serious they would have been about it.
05:33The irony of all this is he's maybe pitched too well
05:37to then be able to get an in-season extension, you know, like a reasonable one.
05:41Like, if he just had a .350 ERA and wasn't an All-Star,
05:47maybe there'd actually be a better chance
05:48because he might not think he could get as much as a free agent.
05:53So that's the weird part of it is that he's pitched so well
05:56that it's maybe created that kind of scenario.
05:59The other, on top of all that, I mean, it's complicated to begin with,
06:03but then you have, like, this looming lockout this winter.
06:05And this is where I do think it might be interesting
06:07because, okay, if baseball is locked out on December 1st,
06:12if you're Foster Griffin, are you going to sign a deal before then?
06:15And if not, are you willing to wait that all out
06:17and who knows what happens come March, April, May, who knows?
06:21And are you going to get lost in shuffle
06:23and are you still going to get the kind of deal
06:25that you think you're going to get right now?
06:27So if I'm the Nats, I'd be maybe trying to make that case to him.
06:30But, again, money talks, and if you're him,
06:33any player in this situation,
06:35and you have a chance to cash in a free agency,
06:38it's hard to pass that up.
06:40You're betting on yourself,
06:41and most of the time it's going to work out for you.
06:44It's very, very interesting times with the Nats right now.
06:46We're talking with our friend Mark Zuckerman
06:48here on the Rude Guest Hotline.
06:50Check out his work at NatsJournal.com.
06:53I read your article, whenever that was,
06:55Saturday night or Sunday morning after the trade went down.
06:58What is, where is Early's health,
07:01and, like, when will he be pitching for Washington?
07:04Well, yeah, that was kind of the number one question
07:07in the immediacy.
07:07He's like, well, hang on a second.
07:08He's on the IL with an elbow injury.
07:10And, ironically, he'd suffered it facing the Nats
07:13about a month ago at Fenway Park.
07:15And at the time, I remember hearing,
07:17this was the night of the brawl with Kate Cavalli.
07:19Yeah.
07:19So it got lost in the shuffle.
07:21But I remember hearing from the Boston writers
07:22at the time that they were concerned
07:23it was something serious.
07:25Now, in the interim, it sounds like everything is checked out.
07:28There was no structural issues with his ligament or anything.
07:31He's been throwing.
07:33And, according to Paul Toboni,
07:34he's making a rehab start on August 3rd.
07:36That was going to happen even if he wasn't traded.
07:39And so, by Toboni's logic,
07:41give him a couple of those starts,
07:42and within a few weeks, he could be pitching for them.
07:45Now, there are still steps that have to be taken.
07:47And, God knows, we've seen over the years here
07:50guys who looked like they were on the verge
07:52of coming back from injury,
07:54and something went wrong, and it didn't happen.
07:56So I don't want to say it's 100% guaranteed.
07:59But I think they made this trade with the belief
08:01that they're going to get 7 to 10 starts out of early
08:06the rest of this season,
08:07in addition to them having the five years of control of him
08:10beyond that.
08:11And I think that's one of the reasons they made the deal.
08:12I don't think, knowing Paul Toboni,
08:14how well he knows the Red Sox,
08:16I mean, he drafted early.
08:17He was our scouting director.
08:18I have a hard time believing he would make that deal
08:21if he wasn't really sure
08:23that this is not a long-term issue.
08:25But he's still got to go out there
08:27and pitch and show that he's okay.
08:28Sure.
08:29So now, I think the question's become,
08:31what happens next?
08:33We've heard Foster Griffin a lot,
08:35Luis Garcia maybe.
08:37There was a time where we were talking about C.J. Abrams.
08:39I think he's just playing so well that'd be impossible.
08:42Kind of, what do you think happens next?
08:45Well, like I said to Beemich,
08:47I mean, I think the bullpen has obviously been
08:50their number one concern.
08:51And I think you can address that
08:52without giving up top prospects.
08:54It's not that hard to get rental relievers
08:58this time of year.
09:00You know, they're not going to be part
09:01of a long-term solution.
09:02And I don't know if they're going to go get
09:03like a bona fide closer,
09:04but you can get guys who will help you
09:07at least patch that up, that group.
09:11Garcia, you know,
09:12if you had told me the other night
09:14that they had traded Garcia for Connelly early,
09:16I would have thought,
09:16oh, that makes sense.
09:17I could see that.
09:18The fact that they got him for need
09:21makes me wonder,
09:23what would you get for Garcia,
09:25who only has one more year after this
09:26before he's a free agent,
09:28obviously having a career year.
09:30And I understand that from the Nats standpoint,
09:33you could afford to lose Mead's bat.
09:36They still scored 10 runs yesterday.
09:37You had Brady House ready to come up and replace him.
09:39Can you afford to also lose Luis Garcia's bat
09:41if you are really trying to go for it this year?
09:44That feels a little tougher.
09:45But I think with all these things,
09:47and I even put C.J. Abrams in this category,
09:48even though I think it's unlikely,
09:50Taboli's going to listen.
09:52And if somebody offered him something
09:53that was like, hey, I can't pass that up
09:55like Connelly early for Curtis Mead,
09:58then I think he'll make the move.
10:00Do I think that you're going to get that for Garcia?
10:02Do I think anybody's going to match
10:04just the astronomical price at this point for C.J. Abrams?
10:07Probably not.
10:08But he'd be doing a disservice
10:09if he didn't at least listen to what's being offered
10:12and consider that because ultimately,
10:14this is about trying to build a team
10:15that's going to be successful beyond this year
10:17that can win in 27, 28, and beyond.
10:21For sure.
10:23I think C.J. will probably help that much better
10:28than somebody else coming in, right?
10:29Well, of course, of course.
10:31But, I mean, you've got to set that bar crazy high right now
10:35for him given what he's doing.
10:36Yeah, yeah.
10:38I don't think C.J. goes anywhere.
10:41I'm fascinated to see what happens with Griffin
10:43and with Garcia, and it's crazy
10:45that there's still one more week left for them.
10:49Like, I think the way they swing the bat,
10:51it's not going to happen.
10:52But, like, if they went 0-6 this week,
10:54you probably are selling.
10:56You know what I mean?
10:56Because then you fall out.
10:57But the way they just keep grinding out winning series.
11:00I'm curious, Mark, for you,
11:02being in that clubhouse yesterday
11:04after the win over the Diamondbacks,
11:06but also after the trade,
11:09what was the vibe like?
11:12Yeah, it wasn't that different than it's been.
11:14And, again, like they all said,
11:16hey, we love Curtis,
11:17and they're sorry to see him go.
11:19But I think when you see what you got in return
11:21and that it wasn't like they traded him
11:24for three prospects
11:26and guys who were, you know,
11:2719 years old and still a single A.
11:29They got a guy who's going to,
11:32and ideally be with them in a couple weeks,
11:34helping them in a playoff push.
11:36I think they understand that
11:37and can view that as,
11:39okay, hey, yeah, we are going for it here.
11:41I think the thing that would really
11:43demoralize that group,
11:43if they did trade Griffin
11:45and it wasn't for somebody
11:47who was, like, big league ready right now,
11:49something like that,
11:50or obviously if they traded C.J. Abrams,
11:52that would be different
11:53because now they're thinking,
11:54oh, well, what was the point of all this?
11:56Like, we're making a run at this
11:57and they don't believe in us right now.
12:00They're just thinking about the future.
12:01You know, that move yesterday,
12:03I think, well,
12:04probably shocked a lot of people.
12:06When you really think about it,
12:07you'd say, hey,
12:08this is actually a sign
12:09that the president of baseball operations
12:10is trying to win right now
12:12and he believes in us.
12:13Yeah.
12:13So let's pull that thread for a second, Mark.
12:16Mark, if Tabone's trying to compete right now
12:20and let's say they're able to add
12:22a couple bullpen arms,
12:24what do you think this team could be?
12:26Yeah.
12:27It's a great question, JP,
12:29because I think all along
12:32there's been this feeling of like,
12:33okay, look, I know the lineup is fantastic,
12:36but if you put them in a playoff series
12:38right now against the Dodgers
12:39or the Brewers
12:40or the Braves or the Phillies,
12:43like, what chance would they really have?
12:44Even with a better bullpen,
12:46are you trusting this rotation?
12:48Are you trusting that that lineup
12:50is going to do that
12:51against, you know,
12:52playoff caliber pitching?
12:54Maybe, you know,
12:55but I think there's still
12:57a realistic notion here
13:00that, hey, it's fine to go for it
13:02and see if you can make it in
13:03to the playoffs,
13:04but is this team built to win
13:06once you get to October?
13:07No, not really.
13:09Unless they just have
13:10some kind of magic run in them,
13:12and that's why you don't give up on it.
13:13But that's why I think
13:15anything they do
13:17is really going to be done
13:18not to sacrifice their chances
13:20in 27 and beyond.
13:22And I think the important thing
13:23to keep in mind is here,
13:24yes, you go for it
13:25if you have the shot,
13:26and you try to get in,
13:27and what a great story that would be,
13:28and you never know what could happen.
13:30But what this season
13:31has done to this point
13:32is, I think,
13:34confirmed or reiterated
13:36to the front office and everybody
13:38that they should be going for it
13:40in 2027.
13:41And if you can add
13:41the right pieces on top
13:42of what they have,
13:44especially on the pitching side,
13:46you've got a real team
13:47that can contend in a year,
13:48not just two, three years
13:49down the road
13:50like we all thought originally.
13:51I know expectations
13:52weren't very high,
13:53and they've been playing
13:55offensively,
13:55they've been outstanding.
13:56What grade,
13:57I always ask you about the grade,
13:58what grade you give them
13:59up to this point?
14:01I mean,
14:02if we're grading on a curve
14:03and saying,
14:03what did you expect,
14:04then it's like an A-minus,
14:05I guess.
14:06I don't know
14:07that anybody could have thought
14:08they'd be in this position.
14:10Now, you have to separate
14:12the offense
14:12from the pitching side.
14:13Of course,
14:14the offense is an A-plus.
14:15The pitching is a C, maybe.
14:19Might be lower than that.
14:21Yeah, might be, yeah.
14:22So,
14:23that's been the great
14:25mystery of all this.
14:26They knew that the lineup
14:28had the potential to be good.
14:29I don't think anybody
14:31honestly expected
14:32they were going to be
14:32the best offense in baseball.
14:35But I also think
14:36they didn't necessarily think
14:37they were going to have
14:37the worst pitching staff
14:38in baseball either.
14:39They thought they,
14:39they wouldn't think
14:40they'd be good.
14:40They thought they'd be
14:41a little bit better.
14:43And,
14:44it does at least
14:45give you a blueprint
14:47moving forward
14:48to say,
14:50they've done a great job
14:51this year.
14:51They've exceeded expectations.
14:52Yes, let's stick with it.
14:53Don't blow this thing up.
14:55But I think,
14:57hopefully,
14:57and hopefully it's
14:58a relatively normal winter
14:59given the lockout,
15:01that they should be
15:03looking at that as,
15:03hey,
15:04we can make some
15:05calculated moves
15:06to now improve this team
15:07on a pitching standpoint
15:08and actually be ready
15:10to try to win
15:11for real next year.
15:12It's so interesting
15:14because you're,
15:15you're completely right.
15:16I think expectations
15:17for this Nats team
15:18versus where we are now
15:19in late July
15:20are wildly different.
15:23And it's been
15:24so much fun
15:26as a Nats fan,
15:27as somebody that talks
15:28about sports for a living,
15:29just to have them good
15:31and to be at this point
15:32where the trade deadline
15:34is a huge decision
15:35for the organization
15:37as far as what
15:37they're going to do.
15:39How much,
15:41and maybe Toboni
15:42won't talk about it publicly,
15:43but like,
15:44how much is the looming
15:45labor strife
15:46a factor
15:47in what they're doing?
15:48Or do they think
15:49maybe,
15:51maybe they'll come out
15:52on the better side
15:53of this
15:54if there actually
15:54is a cap
15:55or a more significant
15:56luxury tax
15:57or whatever
15:58might end up happening?
15:59Yeah,
16:00it's a great question.
16:01I think it probably
16:03is something
16:03that ownership
16:04has to confront
16:05more than
16:06the front office.
16:07But I do think
16:08you have to at least
16:09keep in the back
16:10of your mind.
16:10And here's,
16:12here's the real dilemma.
16:13And I don't know
16:13that it's going to come
16:14to this,
16:14you know,
16:15are there,
16:16is there really going
16:16to be a salary cap
16:17and floor next year
16:20without there being
16:21like a ton of games
16:22lost?
16:23Like,
16:23would the union
16:24agree to that
16:25before having to lose
16:26162 games?
16:27I don't know.
16:28But let's say there is.
16:29Well,
16:30this team is nowhere
16:30close to what a salary
16:32floor would be
16:32in 2027.
16:34They're going to be
16:35required to spend money.
16:36If it comes to that,
16:37they're going to be
16:38required to spend
16:39some real money
16:40prior to next season
16:41to reach that floor
16:42because they just
16:44don't have anybody yet
16:45that's,
16:45that,
16:46that,
16:46that in that category,
16:48you know,
16:48Kavit Rees is the only
16:49one who's signed
16:49long-term.
16:50So,
16:51if you're Paul Tiboni,
16:52maybe that's a nice
16:53position to be in.
16:55But you also don't
16:56want to now just
16:56spend money for the
16:57sake of it.
16:58it does create
16:59an interesting dilemma.
17:01Personally,
17:01I don't think we're
17:02going to have a cap
17:02and floor in 2027.
17:04I think there's too
17:04many obstacles to make
17:05that happen.
17:06I think they're going
17:06to have to find some
17:07kind of middle ground
17:09between the two sides
17:09to make it happen.
17:10If not,
17:11and I hope it's not
17:12the case,
17:12but they would be
17:13losing,
17:13I think,
17:13months of baseball
17:14if the owners
17:16absolutely insist
17:17on it happening
17:17and the players
17:18don't agree to that,
17:20we're going to miss
17:21a good number of games
17:22next year.
17:22And I really hope
17:23it does not come
17:23to that.
17:23God,
17:24I remember as a kid
17:26all the interest
17:27in baseball,
17:28everybody was so
17:29into it,
17:29and then they lost,
17:30and then they went
17:31on strike.
17:32And they don't need
17:32that right now.
17:33Dude,
17:33baseball's got so
17:34much momentum.
17:35This will destroy
17:36them.
17:36Keep playing the games.
17:37Last thing's up,
17:38because I wanted
17:39to ask you this
17:39when I saw you
17:40the last time
17:40I was over there.
17:42Tiboni has said it,
17:43there is anecdotal
17:45evidence to support it.
17:46I would look at
17:46Meade,
17:47Garcia,
17:47even Jacob Young
17:48to a lesser degree.
17:50Do you buy
17:51that these guys
17:52can coach hitting?
17:53That they can develop
17:54power where it hasn't
17:55been on display before?
17:57Well,
17:57yeah,
17:58the evidence so far
17:59would suggest that
17:59yes,
18:00you can.
18:00Now,
18:01that doesn't mean
18:01you can just turn
18:02anybody into a great
18:03hitter,
18:04but they do seem
18:05to be pretty good
18:06at identifying
18:08a guy's strengths,
18:10helping them
18:11maximize that.
18:12They're certainly
18:13really adept at
18:15playing matchups
18:16and putting
18:16their hitters
18:18into advantageous
18:19situations against
18:20who they're facing,
18:21lefty,
18:22righty,
18:22what style of
18:23pitcher and all that.
18:24I think there's
18:25absolutely something
18:26said for that,
18:26and maybe deep down
18:28part of the reason
18:29you're willing to
18:29trade a Curtis Meade
18:30is that you're
18:31thinking,
18:31we can go develop
18:32the next Curtis Meade,
18:33whoever that might be.
18:35Now,
18:35the flip side of this
18:37is if they're so
18:37good at that,
18:38why aren't they
18:39doing the same thing
18:39on the pitching side?
18:40So,
18:41it does ultimately
18:42come down to talent
18:43above all else,
18:45and
18:47you can't just
18:47turn anybody
18:48into a great player.
18:49They have to come
18:49here with at least
18:50some ability
18:51to begin with,
18:52but I don't want
18:54to shortchange
18:54what this coaching
18:55staff and what
18:56the front office
18:56has done
18:57in helping players
18:58become the best
18:59versions of themselves,
19:00at least on the
19:01offensive side.
19:01We've certainly
19:02seen that.
19:04Zuck,
19:04thank you for the
19:05time.
19:05We'll be watching.
19:06We appreciate it.
19:07You got it,
19:08guys.
19:08Take care.
19:09Bye, man.
19:09So, buddy,
19:10Mark Zuckerman,
19:11if you're on hold,
19:11I know you want to
19:12talk some Nats baseball.
19:12When he was talking
19:13about a curve,
19:14you got perked up
19:15your ears a little bit,
19:16huh?
19:16That's how you got
19:17to your A's and B's.
19:21If you want to talk
19:22Nats baseball,
19:22we're going to do it.
19:23We also have
19:24more information
19:25coming out on this
19:25Eric Biennemi situation,
19:26which just seems awful.
19:28It's B.
19:28Mitch Finley.
Comments