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00:02Well, we met Stacy Sutherland and John Ike going down to, we were going to buy a payota, I think,
00:15somewhere down in southern Texas, and we met these two guys, and we turned them on to some weed, and
00:24they became friends of ours.
00:26And so, we met them in a gas station on John Ike's bike, and so then they were looking for
00:31a singer, and like the Beatles had happened, and so that was, the rock and roll thing was kind of
00:39happening then, and so, and I'm pretty sure that Dylan's Subterranean Homesick Blues had come out, so we knew that
00:46rock was, like everything was going into rock.
00:49So then, we were digging around in Austin, and I had been going to jazz shows, and you know, just
00:59kind of keeping up with what was happening in Austin.
01:01And so, I had seen this singer, meanwhile, that was in this group, and so, they mentioned that, and so,
01:10like, I went and talked to him, my wife and I, and so, we turned him on to acid, and
01:17so, he, you know, with Stacy and John Ike,
01:22and so, like, and so, like, they had to form a band, and so then they asked me, hey, well,
01:28well, Stacy had this song that he wanted me to work on, and do, do some of the words for
01:34him, with the words, and that was Through the Rhythm,
01:37and, and, uh, so he wanted a protest song, and so, you know, I just wrote it with, it was
01:44the first song I'd written, and so that's why it's kind of a protest song, because that's what he wanted,
01:47but I tried to put in as many, uh, dimensional types of effects in it as I could,
01:53and then, so that kind of worked, and so they said, well, why don't you try to figure out what,
01:57you know, to play an instrument, and so, like, I just got, got the job one day, and, you know,
02:02it was the first thing I thought of, and stuff,
02:03and so I worked with it, and so I thought that I could try it, and it worked, you know,
02:07so it's, you know, it was just kind of a natural thing and stuff, that's not something I'm proud of,
02:12I guess, but it kind of worked all right.
02:13It must have been a flash of intuition, because I never heard anything that sort of, well, it's just part,
02:20see, the whole, whole universe is harmonic, everything, all the forms, everything, and so that was just there, you know,
02:26because of what I was supposed to do is all I can say, you know, like, it's just like a,
02:31it was a natural thing, and so then, see,
02:33we were much better live than we were on, on the tape and stuff, and then when we recorded, and
02:40that, like, we did, um, You're Gonna Miss Me, and that turned out pretty well, and the main, the main
02:47thing about the recording was
02:49that they were into, like, recording us all as a group, see, that we would get this inspiration as a
02:56group, rather than put it on different takes, and, like, like, do it to, you know, have one instrument at
03:02a time, see,
03:04so because of that, my thing had to be perfect, and so we would always, we didn't really practice that
03:10much with my part, I mean, like, I would be playing along, you're just learning of the music,
03:14and it, with what I was doing, it took a lot of, uh, kind of like, you know, on acid
03:21experiences to get the, the song down, so I could put the acid part in it, see, you know,
03:27and so we just didn't have that together, so then the next song we did was, uh, like, we finally,
03:32uh, did an album, and so, like, I did a roller coaster, and I really
03:36fixed that up, and I know everybody hates me for that, that it went off key and stuff, but it
03:40wasn't my fault, because I'd only done that,
03:43I, I, see, I had actually done it on stage and shit, so, I mean, that helped, but still, I
03:47just wasn't ready for my part, you know, I was in between changes, and I
03:51really didn't have it together to put the right effect on it, see, I mean, it was just, I was
03:55just starting out on the instruments, so it
03:57didn't work out too well, but once I got going and got it together, it worked pretty well, except for
04:02that one, you know, recording and
04:03stuff was not that good, so, uh, you know, once I heard that on, uh, roller coaster, uh, then I
04:13had a little bit more courage, but, but I didn't
04:14realize really what it involved in stuff until later, rather that, that it was as good as I, I thought
04:20it was, you know, so, yeah, well, it was just a lucky thing, I mean, like, I looked at what
04:25I was doing
04:25primarily from a writer's standpoint, I mean, I was just kind of along with the group, playing along with
04:30them, and they kind of felt the same way, fortunately, you know, so, uh, you know, it was lucky that
04:38we did what we could do, but like I'm saying, we were much
04:40better live, our, our real show was live, yeah, but then we had trouble with death, because, uh, we would
04:47do, when you came
04:48out here to California, so, you would do, like, four, four shows in a row, right, like, you'd play at
04:54the Avalon Ballroom,
04:55Pretty tiring, or the film war, yeah, but the main thing is, you can only take acid about once a
04:58week, see, so, which show are you
05:00going to take the acid for, you know, and we didn't really realize that, so we would take acid every
05:05night, and another thing is, we didn't get good
05:06acid, people out here weren't organized, so we just didn't have good enough acid to do some really good
05:11shows, but the people still dug us and stuff, you know, we had a following and everything, but, uh, you
05:17know, it's just
05:18like, uh, we would have been much better if we had played one show a week and had excellent acid,
05:22I mean, we could have
05:23just been dynamite, you know, it just really kills me the way that, that we just, you know, the way
05:28it was done
05:29and stuff, right, because, like, we could have really been trippy, I mean, we, like, we could have just played
05:33every fucking, uh, week, so, like, we could have been drawing people from all over, you know, but we
05:39just, that one little tiny thing we didn't catch, but, like I'm saying, we weren't supposed to, you
05:43know, like, it's all part of how this thing is, it's all mathematics, and so, you, like, just do the
05:48best that you can, you know, and it's all worked out, so. It's weird now that Roke did a song
05:53a couple
05:54of years ago on a single called Bermuda, you heard that one? Uh, yeah, I think so, yeah. Yeah, he
06:01tried to
06:02imitate the jug sound. Yeah, well, somebody else was doing that, so. Yeah. So, why didn't they ask you?
06:08Well, I don't know, he probably, uh, first of all, like, we were probably out of contact, I mean, I
06:13wasn't
06:13really in contact with him, you know, until just maybe a couple of years ago, and he was out here,
06:20and he had his own group, and so he was just trying to do his own thing, and people just
06:24think of these
06:24things, man, you know, it may not have been his intention to put a jug on there, somebody said, well,
06:28let's put a
06:28jug on there, so, you know, so, you know, it's. Did you ever get any money from, uh, Leland Rogers?
06:36He sort of said that Leland Rogers really ripped you off. Maybe so, I don't know. See, I wasn't
06:42looking at it from the standpoint of money, so that, you know, I didn't try to, uh. No, but concerning
06:47the
06:48records and stuff he put out at Fake Live, all of them, that is. Yeah, yeah, I know that. The
06:53only thing I
06:53don't play constantly. Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, it's just like, um, oh, that's their,
07:00their side of it. I mean, if you got exposure, like we came out here, and we got, and, and,
07:06and,
07:06and we had a lot of fun. It was really a trip, man, you know, and it's a shame that
07:10we couldn't
07:10have made it, uh, you know, like, like we even knew that it takes groups, uh, sometimes several albums,
07:18and see, our major problem was that we never could write a second single. If we had come up with
07:23another single, we could have probably made it. But then Rocky, the, we were, since it
07:28was an purely, an actually, a purely intellectual group, see, we were album oriented, and still
07:34at the time that we came out, everything was still really single oriented. Yeah. Even though
07:39you had Dillon, uh, still he was trying to come out with singles. So, you know, he kept
07:44doing that because that's how you popularize what was happening. See, we didn't have MTV and
07:48stuff. No. So, uh, you know, since we weren't really well known yet, we had a single out
07:54here, uh, You're Gonna Miss Me, and it went around, you know, it was, it did pretty well,
07:59it cost a lot, all our nation stuff. It was on Billboard, I don't know what it got to. Yeah,
08:03I think you even were in Bandstand or something, American Bandstand. Yeah, we went on American
08:07Bandstand and on where the action is at both Dick Clark shows. But the thing is, we needed
08:12another single because people, they hear you and so they're not too sure about you and stuff,
08:17but if you have another single, it's like you generally are able to advance and get better
08:22and stuff. See, but we never could come out with a single. I don't know what it was, but
08:26it was just part of the... I think levitation should have been a single. Well, we tried a whole
08:30bunch of them. It's just, you know, uh, probably what I should have done is just let, see, Rocky
08:35wrote You're Gonna Miss Me. You know, it's, it's, it's like, like we were into then, you know,
08:40like recording, we'd put down words and then they would change the word, like he even changed
08:44the word to, uh, sit inside this, uh, uh, posture. Like I had the word, uh, watching and he changed
08:52that to washing. Which, so we had the watching on the lyrics and washing and what, you know,
08:57what he says, what he sings. So that was cool, you know. So yeah, a lot of it, when you
09:02see,
09:02you see, like, like, when I hear it now, it seems a lot of it's kind of corny, you know,
09:07because you really tried to pack it with as much as you could. And we have a different
09:11sense now, once you get into words and lyrics, like, you become, uh, more aware in the Shakespearean
09:20manner as far as poetry. I mean, like, I look at lyrics completely different now. Uh, I mean,
09:25much more clearer, you know. I mean, like, you still would try to pack it in a magazine-type
09:29fashion. But you have to be really careful, like, to over-put in too many, uh, you know,
09:35relevatory types of things, and... Yeah, that's a complaint, actually, I get when
09:39I play your records. Like, they say it's too intense. Yeah.
09:43They have to have some moment to catch the breath. But I mean, they can listen to the song
09:48two times, if they can do it. That's what I say. Yeah, also, you can listen to it. It's
09:51what you can listen to on acid, see? Yeah, that's what you gotta do. And that's how the modern
09:54recording, right, that's on and stuff, uh, you know, that's, uh, put out in England,
10:00they have changed the sequence of the songs. So, it's not, you gotta listen to the songs
10:05in the order that we had them, and it made sense, you know, like, it opened up, and, like,
10:10that's what that Pinball Wizard was about, see? Like, you listen to it, and by the end
10:14of the album, the, the, the meanings of the words have changed for you. So, you can listen
10:19to it again, and it's in a few different albums, see? Because now you're starting to hear
10:21what's being spoken, see? So, it just keeps on bouncing back and forth with different
10:25concepts and stuff, you know? It worked pretty well. I'm really proud of the album.
10:29Uh, I, I, I, that was a good album. And, of course, like you know about the
10:33Bull of the Woods, or the meaning of Bull of the Woods, but the idea of the Bull
10:36of the Woods is the, uh, just the statement, and also we had that song Living On,
10:40as a good song, too. Yeah. That was about all there was on the album,
10:44except for Never Another Like You's a good song, too. Like, I can see a lot more I could
10:48have done and stuff, but it's, you know, it's just one of those things that, uh,
10:51the main thing that it was was just the information, and we kind of have to get
10:55out of the idea, it was just like a celebratory thing, right? And so, like, uh, it's not that,
11:03uh, right, if I, like, I mean, like, uh, it was the release of the information,
11:09that this is all design, it's all, in other words, it's a, what, what do you call a curved
11:14spatial effect, or a design effect? And so, that was what we got from the acid, and that
11:19was really what that was all about, and so, uh, being preoccupied with the album and with
11:25the group, and, you know, it's kind of a, you know, it's like the Trekkies or something,
11:29it's really, it's interesting, but there's going to be much bigger things that are going
11:34to be happening, and so science, technology, uh, and even mysticism, you know, happening in
11:40Europe is much more important, I think, than, than the group, and also the modern groups,
11:45you know? I mean, like, all the rock and rollies know about that, and so that's what's important,
11:51not what we did, actually. I mean, what we did was important for them, and for, right,
11:56I mean, for, if, for people that haven't heard of, heard that, and can understand that, right,
12:02you know, that, that there is, there are psycholic results that were created and stuff, you know?
12:07Yeah. Um, and also the past, um, like, a lot of the lyrics that came out after Easter
12:14Everywhere were about us, right? Yeah. So, I mean, that's interesting, from the standpoint
12:19of, like, Henricks had shit, and, um. And I think, uh, Magical Mystery Tour, I Am The Water.
12:26Oh, yeah, definitely, because he sang, I, meaning the I of the Pyramid, Yeah.
12:30And The Walrus, he didn't mean himself, right? But then, fuckin', uh, McCartney came out and says,
12:37or maybe it was Lyndon who said that, oh, The Walrus is Paul, you know?
12:41Yeah, but, he went and asked him, he was really junked out later.
12:44Yeah, I know, he just really sold out, you know, and all that peace shit, and, and then,
12:48Imagine was really terrible. I mean, what a rotten song after all the spiritual awakening we'd set up.
12:54And he comes out and says, no, there's no spiritual thing there, you know?
12:58And everybody just loves that fuckin' song. It just pisses me off something terrible.
13:02Yeah, but people have bad taste.
13:05Mmm. Well, they don't know what they're listening to, you know?
13:08It's just like, like he sang, like, go back to sleep, go back to sleep, it's alright.
13:12It's alright. Oh, I just love that song. You know, Greg's making me feel so good to just go back
13:16to sleep, you know?
13:16Don't worry about it, you know?
13:19Alright.
13:20But, you know, it's, you know, it's, people shouldn't get uptight about it or something like that, you know, it's...
13:27There's nothing to worry about, really, as long as I've got some good records.
13:31Well, no, I mean, like, people, people that, yeah, because, like, see, all of the tops here, all the top
13:35groups know about that,
13:36and they're running that information, and that's what's important, the information, see?
13:39Not our group, or, you know, or what was none of the history, or anything like that, you know?
13:45But I think the elevator is really important in that sense, that they're...
13:49Actually, I think it's about now, or five years ago, people really started opening up to what you were saying
13:5620 years ago.
13:57But they were doing that, see, they were doing that 20 years ago.
14:00I mean, look at that, I mean, you had Tommy with The Who and stuff like that, you know?
14:04So, I mean, they, see, everybody knew about that, right?
14:07Except, you know, it's just more of it, you know?
14:09It's just, those informations have all held, and now we have, you know,
14:15John Cale said, well, you're like Shakespeare, and he also said,
14:20and I think Lou Reed said, well, he's a conservative.
14:23It may have been Iggy Pop, I think it's Lou Reed.
14:25So, you know, the conservative level, that side of it is good, that people realize that side,
14:29and so it's just kept on, you know?
14:31And, of course, see, I had different things in my room in the past,
14:37like I had the Mona Lisa up, meaning that the Mona Lisa, the perspective of the Mona Lisa
14:44is toward the girl in the painting, or the woman in the painting.
14:48Right?
14:48So, when you look at it, the woman seems to float, the outside, the background of the painting.
14:53Yeah.
14:54It looks like it's projected from the woman, see?
14:56So, it's an example of how, see, our, like our imaging, our mental imaging, right?
15:03Our perceptual imaging is based on perspective, and so is all the atomics.
15:09It's all geometrical perspective.
15:11All the little atoms and stuff are perspectives of the much bigger field, see?
15:17So, that painting is kind of a geometrical expostulation.
15:23So, you know, it's just interesting, it's kind of a, like I remade that statement,
15:28because it still, it still will make you high on acid, you know what I mean?
15:30Yeah.
15:30It's valuable shit, and people just don't realize it, you know?
15:36What can be done?
15:37I mean, it's another, it's like a plastic art, see?
15:40That it's a structural change that you can do with your mind, just like with geometry,
15:47but you can do it with your ear.
15:49You know, you can hear music from the acid perspective, and it advances the mind.
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