00:08Hello and welcome to the program. I'm Stefan Grobe. My guest today is Mario Lubetkin,
00:13the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Uruguay. Thanks for joining us today, Minister.
00:17Thanks.
00:18Good to have you here. So it's not every day that we have top visitors from South America
00:23in Brussels. What's the reason for your visit? So tell us about your conversations,
00:29your meetings. First of all, you know, from last week, Uruguay is the chair of Mercosur.
00:35Mercosur, you know, perfectly because there is an agreement between Mercosur and European
00:39Union that started formally on 1st of May this year. And it's a quality change, not only
00:46for Europe and for Europe or for Mercosur. It's a quality change for all of us. And it's
00:54very important for, how you can say, the taxpayer to understand why this agreement is important.
00:59And obviously that in the framework of DEEP, our action, cooperation and initiative, one
01:07of the key sectors is to develop trade, to develop business and to work in another way between
01:12the private sector of both realities. We met with the private sector of Europe, organized
01:18the meeting with the authorities of the European Union, especially with the Commissioner of
01:26Trade, in which we open a dialogue that we want to conclude in December because we want
01:34to organize in the framework of the agreement between European Union and Mercosur, the first
01:42trade event between European Union and Mercosur that we want to organize on 2nd of December
01:49in Uruguay during our presidency.
01:53Minister, there's a lot to unpack here. Uruguay was the first country to ratify the agreement.
01:59Now it holds the Mercosur presidency, as you said. Is this finally the moment when the EU-Mercosur
02:07agreement becomes a reality? Or are you still worried that it could fall apart? What are the
02:13most sensitive pending issues?
02:16First of all, the four countries of Mercosur ratify in two months. Never happened before
02:20something like this. So the parliament of the four countries ratify in two months. And that
02:26is something that is important to highlight. And we need to take in account that the Mercosur
02:31government are completely different. They are right government, they are left government,
02:35but we have all in the same vision that is strategically for us, but not from us to Europe. It's
02:43from
02:43Europe to us to. That is the point. It's not one way. It's both ways. The fact.
02:48On that note, do you think that the whole ratification process will be over, finished, by the end of the
02:53year?
02:54No, no. From our side was end. The point is from Europe. We don't know us. That's not a problem
03:02for us.
03:03We are not thinking about what can happen from the judicial way or what will happen. We are sure that
03:12the
03:12European Parliament will ratify, I don't know where, 2027, 2028, I don't know.
03:17Well, I'm asking because the European Parliament hasn't ratified it yet, as you say, but they have taken the matter
03:22to court.
03:24What is your take on this? Are you worried that things go?
03:26We work with the fact that we start on 1st of May and why the issue will develop and we
03:33will increase business, democracy, cooperation, for sure.
03:39In the end of the day, the parliamentarian will understand and the citizen will understand that this is only positive
03:46for them and for their life.
03:48The point is, now we need to build. And we will build. This is the reason why I'm here. Because
03:53now we are not thinking about what will happen in one year or two years. No, no, no, no.
03:58Because we are not time. The citizens are not time. The citizens need to have answers, concrete answers. And that
04:04is what we discussed with the European Union to work together in that, in a very concrete way.
04:08Is the agreement today more important than it was five years ago?
04:14For sure. Because we need to think, and Europe needs to think, in the global scenario, which are the regions
04:23that we can work together in a similar perspective, till complementary areas.
04:31And they are for sure. Obviously that we work in the agricultural way. But we have room for all in
04:38this game. We have room for all in this game. We are absolutely convinced. And we are prepared about that.
04:44And the point is, we want the European Union to be prepared to, in that, because it's a win-win.
04:51It's not the fact that we will develop our capacity and the European Union. No.
04:56That is a wrong discussion. It was a wrong discussion. But it's a problem of our European friends. We will
05:04support, because it's important for us to show that that is what we sign in Paraguay was strategically for our
05:15life. Our life and the European life.
05:17So what are European citizens going to see? What are the tangibles that Europeans are going to see once this
05:24is ratified?
05:25Increase the economy, increase job, increase investment. Because it's not investment from this part of the world to there, from
05:32there to here. In our region, there are a lot of money too. A lot of money. There are a
05:36lot of power of companies.
05:38So the point is to think how the economy is changing the world. How is the situation today in Europe,
05:44today in our region, today in the US. It's part of the global discussion.
05:48And we need, because we have many synergies, to try to develop our new capacities. Because we are not thinking
05:55for one year. We are thinking for five, for 10, for 15 years.
06:00One of the ideas that we have, you know, because we are the chair of Mercosur, but we are the
06:06chair of CELAC. CELAC is the 33 countries of Latin America and the Caribbean.
06:10One of our chairing position is to concrete a roadmap between the European Union and CELAC. So, 60 countries. That
06:20we never have this in the past.
06:22And if we go in the correct way, we will launch together between the European Union and CELAC in September
06:28in Europe.
06:29I like your excitement, Minister, but I also want to play devil's advocate here. If, eventually, the European Parliament, the
06:38European Union, rejects this deal, what are the consequences?
06:43How do you see it?
06:44For Europe, a lot, because we will continue with other countries.
06:47Could that be China?
06:49Obviously.
06:50Obviously.
06:51Obviously.
06:51China is the most important counterpart for most of the countries in the region.
06:56For Uruguay, small country, 3.5 million people.
07:01China is our first counterpart in the last 14 years.
07:04We are talking about trade.
07:05Because when we are talking about investment, it's Europe.
07:09And when we are talking about service, it's the United States.
07:13So, which is the point?
07:14No one, why no one?
07:16So, there are many countries in Asia or Africa.
07:21I put an example.
07:22In these six months in which we will chair Mercosur, we will try to conclude the agreement with Canada.
07:30We will try to conclude our agreement with Emirates.
07:33We will try to conclude our agreement with India.
07:36So, no one, wait, no one.
07:38Just for this, but I am convinced that our friends from Europe will understand that.
07:43And we will continue because there are no other alternatives.
07:47Again, under the assumption that the agreement might not be ratified by the European Parliament.
07:54Would Uruguay be prepared to go it alone without the other markets or countries and strike a trade agreement with
08:04the EU?
08:04We will substitute for other markets.
08:07We cannot wait.
08:08What we can say?
08:09What we can do?
08:10Sit and wait?
08:12Absolutely no.
08:12No.
08:13And there are key countries that want to sign with us.
08:17We are a real power.
08:18We represent more than 400 million.
08:21A very important percentage of our trade.
08:24I want to ask you about what else is going on in the world.
08:27And there are shifting political realities in the Western Hemisphere.
08:30As you know, Donald Trump is pushing for American dominance in the Western Hemisphere.
08:37We've seen it in Venezuela.
08:38We might see it in Cuba.
08:41How concerned are you about the trend that Washington wants bigger influence?
08:46We have a good relationship with the United States.
08:50They represent a big real power.
08:52But we develop our capacity.
08:54We sign it.
08:55We sign it.
08:56We agreed with all the trans-Pacific countries that represent 25% of the trade in the world.
09:05We agreed with them.
09:06We agreed with ASEAN.
09:08We are developing with Africa.
09:10We are developing with the Gulf countries.
09:13For us, the key agreement is with the European Union.
09:15But the point is, we need to go ahead and we will go ahead.
09:21You say that Uruguay is on good terms with the United States.
09:27Good for you.
09:28But President Trump has pressured Uruguay in particular to restrict Chinese influence.
09:34But still, your president has deepened ties with Beijing.
09:38Doesn't that risk riling up Donald Trump?
09:41No, because we are not working against no one.
09:44That's the point.
09:44So we are not working with China against the United States.
09:48We are working with China, with the United States.
09:50And we have the agreement with the European Union.
09:52Which is the point.
09:53We need to work more and better.
09:55Especially with our friends, historically.
09:57That means the European Union.
09:58So, the point is, it's true that we visited China last year.
10:04And we continue to have China like first counterpart in trade.
10:09And in export our product.
10:12And we talk with all.
10:14Okay, we want to dip with you.
10:16The point is, we don't want to dip with X.
10:19Because we don't want to dip the business with you.
10:23That is clever.
10:24So we think in a positive way.
10:26And what, you know, we took our position in the new government on first March last year.
10:32And this is the way in which we are working.
10:34And we will continue that.
10:36If you look at your neighbors in Latin America, there seems to be an emerging trend towards right-wing governments.
10:43Now, Uruguay has a center-left government.
10:45Are you feeling more and more isolated among your neighbors?
10:50Theorically, if we read how was the map in which all the last eight elections was won by a right
11:00country.
11:01And we represent a center-left.
11:02We could be.
11:03But I can say to you that the life is more rich and interesting.
11:08That's what to say.
11:10Last week, last week came on Friday, I think, the president of Chile.
11:14And the visit was an incredible visit to develop an incredible cooperation for the future.
11:21All of us are thinking to dip our cooperation.
11:24Because each one of us needs the other one.
11:26And that is something that goes beyond right or left.
11:29Because this is the trend of the world now.
11:31What you say was correct, theoretically, six months ago.
11:35Now, with example, I can say to you that the areas of cooperation and business
11:43between the countries in the region with Uruguay, for sure, will go in a positive way, for sure.
11:49Mario Lovetkin, foreign minister of Uruguay, thank you so much for your time, sir.
11:53It was a pleasure to have you here.
11:54Thanks to you for this invitation.
11:55Thank you so much.
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