00:00Well, Simon Chadwick is Professor of Afro-Eurasian Sport at Emlyon Business School in Shanghai.
00:06Simon, thanks for joining us. We've just been hearing that from Donald Trump.
00:10What's your assessment of this situation?
00:14It's unique and unprecedented.
00:17There are some leagues in the world where after a match has taken place, red cards can be rescinded.
00:24But that's within their rules, and those rules have been consensually agreed.
00:28A collective group has agreed them.
00:31In this particular case, FIFA has no such protocol or rules.
00:35And so, therefore, this is a decision that hasn't been widely agreed, very unexpected.
00:39And, of course, there's been the intervention of a politician.
00:43Well, FIFA calls itself a non-political organisation, but many would argue that this blurs the line between sport and
00:50politics.
00:52For me, this entire tournament has been a tipping point.
00:56Because we hear that FIFA is supposed to be a non-political organisation, and yet we have its president arguably
01:03becoming embroiled in geopolitics more so than any other FIFA president before.
01:08We also hear that FIFA is not a business.
01:11It's the custodian of the world game, a guardian of football.
01:15And yet, in reality, what it is doing is it's making decisions on the basis of money and commercial return.
01:22So, I think when we look back in history at this particular tournament, it will be seen as really a
01:27tipping point for FIFA and a tipping point for world football.
01:30Simon, do you think if that call had come from the president of a smaller country, would FIFA have responded
01:36in the same way?
01:38That's a really great question.
01:40If you remember the controversy around Qatar 2022, which is obviously a much smaller country, there are only 300,000
01:48Qataris in the entire world.
01:50Qatar was massively exposed to scrutiny and criticism, and it seems as though that level of scrutiny and criticism doesn't
01:57necessarily apply in the United States' case.
02:00And I do believe that given the United States' economic and political power, but also the power of the president
02:07himself, this has been at the root of this decision being taken.
02:11And I find it very hard to believe that if it was another tournament in another place at a different
02:16time, possibly in a smaller country, the decision would not have been made.
02:21On the pitch, Elise, this tournament has been a big success.
02:24We've had great stories like Cape 3rd.
02:26We had that excellent match between England and Mexico.
02:30What does this incident do in terms of overshadowing what has been a good tournament?
02:36I think you've got to keep in mind that most World Cups, no matter how controversial the run-up to
02:40those World Cups are, ultimately tend to be exciting with great games.
02:46People tend to forget the geopolitics and the business and focus on the football.
02:50So I think this is another tournament that fits into that.
02:52Of course, one of the big changes this tournament is because of the enlargement in number from 32 to 48,
03:00smaller nations or less successful nations have been able to participate for the first time.
03:06But I think it's really important not to kind of over-glamorise or patronise these countries.
03:11Because, as I said, there have still been great tournaments in the past, great games in the past, but there
03:17have also always been these really controversial issues.
03:20And I think what's arguably, for me, what's been more significant is how well FIFA and the United States have
03:27managed to suppress those kind of controversial issues until now.
03:33So keep in mind, we've been going pretty much for three weeks now, three and a half weeks.
03:38And there hasn't really been a major controversy, even though there have been controversies bubbling below the surface.
03:43It's only now that it's happening, but I think it was inevitable that it was going to, because this is
03:48a very, very sensitive tournament.
03:51And, just quickly, it looks like he's likely to play in the game later, even though Belgium are set to
03:56appeal.
03:57What happens now?
03:59Well, Belgium will try and stop the player appearing.
04:04I think they will struggle to do that, particularly given the period of time where we're looking at, what, seven
04:11or eight hours now before the game kicks off.
04:13I would imagine that that will be unsuccessful.
04:16Interestingly, the head of the appeal board is an American, and so he presumably is under a certain degree of
04:23pressure from various quarters as well.
04:25So I think the game will be played, the player in question will play.
04:30Belgium will not be able to do anything about this, but the ramifications will rumble on and on and on,
04:35because, as I say, I think this tournament is a tipping point.
04:38And what we may well get in the future is similar kind of decisions being made without consultation across the
04:44football community.
04:46Simon Chadwick, thank you.
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