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Latvian President Edgars Rinkevics says NATO must now focus on turning its new funding pledges into real capabilities.
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00:01The leaders of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization NATO are meeting in Ankara, Turkey.
00:07One of the participants is the President of Latvia, Edgars Rinkević.
00:13The Baltic Republic of Latvia is at the eastern flank of NATO and has a border with Russia.
00:19Hence, it's dependent on the military alliance, also on help from Germany and the United States.
00:25With me is President Rinkević and we will talk about what lies ahead for Latvia and NATO.
00:33Mr. President, you will meet your American counterpart Donald Trump at the NATO summit in Ankara.
00:42Mr. Trump just posted that he finds it ridiculous to maintain support for NATO at the current level.
00:52Are you scared?
00:54Mr. I think that we have had the discussion about defense spending back in the Hague last year.
01:02We have been talking a lot about what European allies should do.
01:06And I think that the data shows that Europeans, Canadians and also other allies do make a great effort to
01:18increase defense spending.
01:19And I think that it is always good to have a discussion with all the leaders and also to put
01:27on the table the actual figures.
01:28And I think that everyone around the table is going to be impressed by the progress that we have achieved.
01:36Mr. But if you meet Donald Trump, are you a little nervous because you never know how he reacts, right?
01:42Mr. No. I think that if you look at the defense spending of Latvia, that is 5%.
01:47And we have actually put that obligation to spend 5% of GDP in our state defense financing law.
01:55So Effective 27, it's not going to be only political commitment, but it's also a legal commitment to do that.
02:02And I know that President Trump knows that.
02:05Mr. What do you expect will be the result of this data summit?
02:10Will there another commitment to stand together?
02:13Will it be a summit about implementation of the goals that are really set?
02:17What's on your mind?
02:19Mr. I think it's always important to repeat the political message of unity.
02:24And of course, we do have a lot of discussions.
02:27We have both private and public discussions.
02:30And sometimes you get some impression that things are not going into the right direction.
02:37But what we have seen also from the Hague summit, that at the end of the day, after discussion, after
02:42the hard work,
02:42we do agree on basic things.
02:46So one, message of unity is always important.
02:50That's why actually those summits are for.
02:53Two, yes indeed, we agreed for 5% defense spending last year.
02:57But what we are finding is that it's not enough.
03:01What really matters is capabilities.
03:03You have money, but you also need to have armament, missiles, equipment that you can buy with that money.
03:13And here we see that we have some issues with defense industry.
03:16So if we can make another step forward, that after the commitment of 5%, we also find ways how we
03:25actually transform this money into real capabilities, that's going to be the success.
03:31Number three, I think that it is very important that at NATO summit, we agree to continue supporting Ukraine.
03:39Talking about the capabilities that Europe needs to defend itself, do you think Europe is on the right path?
03:46Are the Europeans spending the money on the right things like anti-drone equipment or is it still the old
03:53thinking of we need tanks and soldiers?
03:55I think our challenge is that actually we need everything.
04:01That's the trouble.
04:03Of course, what we see that when there is a war, technologies are developing really fast.
04:13Drone systems, anti-drone systems, electronic warfare, also robotic technologies, also undersea drones.
04:26Those technologies are developing, I would say, at lightning speed.
04:32And of course, we all try and we are also doing that.
04:37We try to learn from Ukraine.
04:40Having said that, we also see that still there is a classical warfare, still we see that Russians are trying
04:48to make advance in Ukraine.
04:50So what it means?
04:51You also need mines, artillery shells, you need tanks, you need armored personnel carriers, and how to strike the right
05:00balance.
05:00That's, by the way, is another thing that we need to discuss at NATO.
05:04We have so-called NATO defense capability targets.
05:07That's commonly agreed targets that each and every member state armed forces should achieve.
05:14Not everything, I believe, has been balanced in those targets.
05:19It doesn't mean that we don't need some things.
05:21We simply need to prioritize what we do first, taking into account security environment, and what we build a little
05:29bit later.
05:31The Americans already announced that they will reduce the number of troops in Europe over time.
05:38Do you think the Europeans will be able to replace these commitments or these placements?
05:45I think that we still have a bit of a complex issue there.
05:52Indeed, we are informed about the posture review by the World Department.
06:00Indeed, we are working closely on bilateral and also NATO level.
06:05At the same time, we also know that there are plans to decrease in some countries and to increase in
06:13other countries.
06:14Our own experience with the United States so far has been positive.
06:18I just had an opportunity to have lunch with American troops stationed in Latvia.
06:24We are celebrating the 250th anniversary of the United States.
06:28They just arrived.
06:30But, of course, what is important is that we have NATO planning and then, of course, we also need to
06:36have clarity on the United States commitment.
06:41And I would say that indeed, we as Europe neglected for a very long time warning signs from the United
06:52States that we should do more.
06:55Now, when the time has arrived, we see that we are doing a lot, but let's be honest, we can't
07:05do this in a year or two.
07:08Building certain level of capabilities that the United States provide in defense of Europe as part of NATO requires first
07:18time, second money, third also real effort investing in personnel and in equipment.
07:25And I would say that today the United States, regardless of what kind of slogans or statements we hear sometimes
07:35from many European politicians, the United States currently are indispensable in defense of Europe, in making NATO a successful alliance.
07:46And that's why my country that is very close to Russia, a country with the historic experience, really wants to
07:53strengthen the transatlantic bridge rather than to destroy.
07:56And that's why we also understand our responsibility to do whatever we can to protect our country and also to
08:03invest in defense.
08:04You're not afraid that Russia will escalate further. I mean, there are some violations of airspace, some sabotage acts. You
08:12don't know if Russia is behind that.
08:14But do you think Russia will stop setting foot on Baltic territory?
08:18If I knew the correct answer, I would probably have gained some even money by betting. This is a bet.
08:33And yes, indeed, we see that possible acts of sabotage. Those are happening as we speak. And not only in
08:45the Baltic states. We have been killing of people. We have been seeing killing of the people in Germany.
08:53And we know that actually some Russian services have been behind that. We have seen a lot of espionage attempts.
09:00We have seen what is happening now at Belarusian-Latwin border. And that's a hybrid operation pushing migrants across the
09:09border.
09:10So we are under the constant tension and stress. And yes, indeed, there are two schools of thought. One saying
09:23that if Ukraine continues to advance and takes strategic initiative, Russia is cornered and Russia can test us.
09:31Another school of thought is saying that if war is over in Ukraine, Russia will test NATO. There are people
09:41who are saying that there can be all options. We have to be prepared. We can't rule out anything.
09:47But I would say that we should not be afraid. We should simply give a very, very short and powerful
09:53message. If Russia challenges NATO, NATO is going to respond appropriately.
10:01And that is something that I sometimes miss in all this kind of information overload that we are having. We
10:11have experts, we have intelligence services making all kinds of prediction.
10:15If you are a decision maker, it's sometimes very difficult to sort out which is, you know, the true fact,
10:23which is just an assumption.
10:25But I think that the message that we are sending to our NATO allies, we must be ready to all
10:30kinds of possibilities. But having said that, full-scale invasion at this point today is not possible because Russia does
10:39not have troops.
10:40All kinds of provocations, yes, those are possible.
10:43The NATO summit will also deal with Ukraine and the future of Ukraine. Do you see any possibility for the
10:51Europeans to engage more in finding a kind of peace deal, a way to peace in Ukraine? What can Europe
10:58do?
11:00I think that it is impossible to achieve peace in Ukraine without Europe. For many reasons.
11:08One reason is that I think that Ukraine wants to become EU member, it deserves to become EU member, and
11:17actually it's in our interest that Ukraine becomes EU member, also for security reasons.
11:21With such capable army, the defense of Europe would be much, much more different.
11:29Having said that, I also understand all the difficulties. EU enlargement process is not, you know, a political one only.
11:36It's also merits based, and you have many things to do. And at the end of the day, all EU
11:41members should agree, and we know that this is going to be, mildly speaking, rather challenging.
11:48That's one. So, for Ukraine to have a lasting peace means also to be part of Europe.
11:57For also us, I think, it is important that if there are any deals, and we have seen all that
12:05political and diplomatic effort last year and at the beginning of this year, that we are sitting at the table,
12:13not on the table.
12:14That's clear. But what I also see is that, unfortunately, Russia is not willing to sit at the table. With
12:23Ukrainians, with Americans, Russia still believes that it may and it will be able to win this war.
12:31It seems highly unlikely, and I think that realization will come sooner or later, but I don't see that at
12:39this point, Russia is willing to have a diplomatic process.
12:42At least till the end of the year, I don't see this kind of trend. If I'm wrong, I'll be
12:47happy to see and to correct myself, but I don't see this.
12:51With my last question, let me return to the beginning of our conversation to Donald Trump. The US president seems
12:57to have lost interest in finding a peace deal in Ukraine.
13:02He's focused now on something else, Iran, the Gulf. Do you think you can change his mind in Ankara somehow?
13:10I think that the world is still very much interconnected and complex place.
13:16And we saw what had happened with the crisis in the Middle East. We saw the effects on the economy.
13:24We saw actually some effects also on the way how the diplomacy is being conducted.
13:31I do believe that from the latest reports, there is an interest to restart some kind of political process, also
13:41on the part of the United States.
13:43When it comes to the Middle East, when it comes to Iran and Hormuz, I do hope that Ankara is
13:49going to close this misunderstanding that we had.
13:53Mr. President, thank you very much for the interview and for your time.
13:56Thank you very much.
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