- 1 minute ago
Do you believe did Jayson Tatum Help to "Drive" this Trade? Was the 'Jays' Era a success? What drove this trade? Was it a panic move after Giannis? Greg: You are calling this a fire able offense?" Wiggy: "Yes" Mistake by Brad Stevens?
Where was the market for JB? Were Celtics "DONE" with Jaylen Brown? Could this deal backfire for the Celtics?
Where was the market for JB? Were Celtics "DONE" with Jaylen Brown? Could this deal backfire for the Celtics?
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00Digging into this, as Joe said, you think Jason Tatum drove this?
00:04I think that the organization looked at, I know people don't want to hear this,
00:09looked at the long-term contract of Jalen Brown and said,
00:12if we take on this albatross monstrosity contract from Paul George
00:18and you're nodding in the first row because I think you know where I'm going,
00:21this is a shorter-term issue than having Jalen Brown's long contract.
00:25And if we're looking at the next three years and Tatum's championship window,
00:29this gives us more flexibility.
00:31Like it's not a straight-up cost-cutting measure because it's a contract for contract,
00:36but it's a shorter-term thing that you deal with with 36-year-old Paul George
00:40than Jalen Brown with all the years left on his contract.
00:43It's one year.
00:43It's one year.
00:44And then he has the option for the second.
00:46Jalen Brown had three years left.
00:50Paul George has next year and then a player option, both at $56, $57 million.
00:56Jalen has three years left, around $56, $57, and it goes up maybe the third year.
01:02So basically you're saying, all right, if you're telling me it's a cost-cutting thing,
01:07then that means Paul George is going to opt out of his deal next year.
01:12Do you think he's going to do that?
01:14All right.
01:14So you're going to get Paul George for two years versus, all right,
01:18we would have had Jalen for three if he would have came for that third year,
01:22or we could have kept Jalen for this year, figured it out,
01:27and then moved him next offseason.
01:29They must have felt like they could not make it work with Jalen Brown.
01:34Brad Stevens did not wake up a moron.
01:36I think he did the last couple of weeks.
01:39Wiggy was saying, I don't know if you still feel the same way,
01:42you called this a fireable offense.
01:44Yes, all day long.
01:45He did on the yacht yesterday.
01:47He's like, fireable offense, fireable offense.
01:50Wiggy was feeling himself on the yacht.
01:52Okay, thank you for finishing that.
01:53Wait a second.
01:56If somebody would have traded 28-year-old Drake May,
02:03we'd be calling it a fireable offense.
02:06I believe they traded Mookie Betts.
02:08We called it a fireable offense.
02:10And it was.
02:11So how are we now not sitting here, and I'm not saying he should be fired.
02:15I'm just saying, like, he's done good things.
02:17What's the definition of a fireable offense?
02:19You are saying he should be fired.
02:22You were literally saying it all day yesterday.
02:26But, like, when I say that, like, you could do something that people go,
02:30man, you deserve to be fired for that, but you shouldn't be fired for it.
02:32Like, he's done good things.
02:33Wait, which is it, though?
02:35Man, trying to explain this to you.
02:37Let me explain it to you like a two-year-old.
02:39All right.
02:40I don't literally mean he should be fired.
02:42I'm saying what he did is, like, one of those things where you go,
02:46man, you could be fired for doing something that dumb.
02:49You shouldn't, but that's a fireable offense.
02:52Do you not get that?
02:53My question to you is what makes it not?
02:55When you say, like, it could be.
02:57No, I'm saying everything he's done leading up to it, he's done a good job.
03:02That's protecting him?
03:03I guess, like, if you're not understanding what I'm saying,
03:05then we're just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
03:08Do you understand what Wiggy's saying?
03:09No.
03:11Do you guys understand what I'm saying out there?
03:13I think most people understand.
03:14I'm saying.
03:15I rarely do.
03:18It's not often that I do.
03:19I don't understand what he's saying a lot of the time.
03:21What I'm saying is I think most people understand.
03:23What he did was stupid, and it is a fireable offense.
03:26Should the guy be fired?
03:28No.
03:28If you don't get that, I don't know what the hell to tell him.
03:30Yeah, yeah.
03:31Well, he must have felt like he had to do it.
03:33Oh, he definitely was in panic.
03:35And you and Brad agreed on that.
03:37He would definitely.
03:38But I would have much rather than say, you know what, if I'm going to panic,
03:41let me go get Jamal Murray.
03:42At least Jamal Murray's younger.
03:45He doesn't really kind of doesn't have the same type of injury.
03:48He can play point.
03:49Yeah, like you could have did that.
03:50He's not a true point guard.
03:51Maybe they did.
03:52Maybe this is where.
03:53Maybe they did Jalen Brown a favor.
03:56Maybe this is where Jalen Brown wants to be.
03:58So you do him a favor, and what's the saying?
04:01You sent him to a playoff team.
04:04Maybe you did him a favor.
04:05So you cut off your nose to spite your face.
04:07You send him to Philly in your division, in your conference that you're going to see.
04:11There's a lot of culture in Philly.
04:12The East is getting better.
04:14Of course it is.
04:14That's something we haven't talked about yet.
04:16The Heat is going to be better.
04:17Toronto is going to be better.
04:20Philly is certainly better.
04:22And how can you not, and how can you sit there and defend Brad Stevens, who said it's about us
04:28getting better and winning championships.
04:29When everybody's going forward down the highway, there's one jackass in reverse going backwards.
04:36And that's Brad Stevens.
04:38So don't sit here and try to make it seem like.
04:41They agree with you.
04:43Right.
04:44It's like everybody's going past him, and he's like, where are y'all going?
04:49But don't sit here and make it seem like this is a Jason Tatum thing.
04:54Of course it is.
04:55Joe told you it's a Jason Tatum thing.
04:57Who's Joe?
04:58Joe the caller.
04:59That's just Joe's opinion.
05:00Okay.
05:01Wiggy, you said you couldn't do this again.
05:03You literally said it over.
05:05We had a conversation several times.
05:06I said that you were at a point where the relief.
05:10You can't do it.
05:10No, I never said.
05:11I said, if it was up to me, I would not trade Jalen Brown.
05:14Did you not hear me say that?
05:15Yeah.
05:16Multiple, multiple times.
05:17At the beginning of the offseason, after the season ended.
05:19I'm talking about when we.
05:20We had several conversations.
05:21Curtis, I'm talking about when we missed out on Giannis.
05:24I know.
05:24I'm saying in the buildup to Giannis, you agreed with Brad Stevens.
05:27Brad Stevens that they had to make a trade.
05:29For Giannis.
05:30Because that Galen and Jason relationship was going to be impossible to create.
05:34For Giannis.
05:35Once you didn't get Giannis, it's called, you know what?
05:37It's the Red Sox great pivot.
05:39Now we have to pivot.
05:40And guess what?
05:41You do everything.
05:42And I said this a number of times.
05:45Thank you, El Presidente.
05:47I said, what you have to do now is you got to smooth it out the best way you can.
05:53Both the husband and wife know divorce is coming, but we're going to have to just get through this one
05:57year because the kids got one year of school left.
05:59That's what it is.
06:00And then we'll reevaluate.
06:02I know we have to get to leads.
06:03Curtis, good morning.
06:04Good morning.
06:05I would like to present the other side, the analytics, which I despise, but some stats that I read in
06:11this Tom Haber.
06:13Oh, my God.
06:13This is going to be my lead, too.
06:15Okay.
06:15You guys can do it together.
06:16I'll just do one quick number.
06:17We wore the same shirt the other day.
06:19Now we have the same lead.
06:19What is going on in my brain?
06:21I feel really sorry for you.
06:22I'm in lockstep with Curtis.
06:24Better get away.
06:25All right.
06:26So just one stat that I found interesting for everybody losing their minds.
06:28Would you like to guess the Celtics' record over the last four seasons in games where Jalen Brown does not
06:34play?
06:37I'll tell you.
06:37They played 57 games.
06:39How many games do you think they won?
06:40I would say they probably won about 35.
06:4447-10 in the last four seasons without Jalen Brown in the lineup.
06:49An 825 winning percentage.
06:51All right.
06:51Bego, you can take the rest of the story.
06:52Oh, no.
06:53I was just going to say I thought he made an interesting point.
06:55I don't know if you guys saw Jalen Brown's tweet last week when he said nobody in the league has
07:00won more regular season and playoff games since I entered 10 years ago.
07:05And he made an excellent point, this writer, of pointing out, okay, well, if you wanted to go the decade
07:11before 2011 to 2021, you might say the best guy in the league was LeBron James.
07:17Or maybe, oh, my gosh, that's when Kyrie entered the league.
07:20You'd think of all those guys.
07:21The guy who had that record was Danny Green.
07:25So he kind of, like, breaks down that argument.
07:27And that's the thing where I do feel like there's this push and pull with Jalen that we know he
07:33hates the analytics.
07:34A lot of us don't love the analytics.
07:37So I don't want to, like, stand here and say, oh, the on-off and all this is going to
07:41prove out how Jalen wasn't a good player.
07:43What worries me most about this is that Jalen brought this attitude night in and night out.
07:49And maybe sometimes it rubbed people the wrong way.
07:52But he's so competitive.
07:54And he was the guy in games who would turn it on sometimes like it didn't work out.
08:00But he has this competitive nature that I don't think can be measured.
08:04And that's what concerns me about losing him from this locker room.
08:07Yeah, to me, like, all right, so he said that's what the Celtics record was without Jalen Brown.
08:14What's the Celtics record been without Jason Tatum?
08:16I mean, how many games did they win this year just with Jalen Brown?
08:20They won 56.
08:2056?
08:21So, I mean, that's...
08:22That's not an 825 winning percentage.
08:24No, no, no.
08:24I mean, that's...
08:25They went 13-3 in the regular season when he came back.
08:28Yeah, so I think that when you look at Jalen Brown, I'm not going to sit there and, like, look
08:32at the analytics of it.
08:34I'm going to sit there and, like, watch basketball.
08:36And I'm going to say Jalen Brown, and we all said...
08:39Well, not we all, but I said this, and there were a lot of people that said this, that you
08:43had one of the best duos in the NBA when it came to Jalen and Jason.
08:49Listen, and you're Brad Stevens.
08:51You have two top 10 players in the NBA.
08:54Maybe if you want to call it top 12, you can make the argument that maybe Jalen Brown's 11 or
08:5912 or somewhere.
08:59The rest of the league doesn't agree with that.
09:01Listen, I'm just telling you what I see night in and night out and what NBA analysts and people that
09:08cover the game, Charles Barkley, Shaq, all these other people, say you have one of the best duos in the
09:14NBA.
09:14And you traded one guy away...
09:16You did.
09:17...for two draft picks.
09:18Because second-round draft picks in the NBA are basically...
09:21That's like you going to buy a new car, and they're going to say, hey, you know, we're going to
09:24throw some floor mats in the back for him.
09:25Tell that to Denver.
09:27...when they were running the Chalupa ad while Jokic was getting drafted.
09:31Yeah, well, I mean, there's always a couple people that you...
09:33Wasn't Jalen Brunson a second-round draft pick?
09:35Okay, that's what I'm saying.
09:36But there's always a few, but overall in the world of basketball, when you think of second-round draft picks,
09:43you know, teams are like, all right, whatever.
09:44Listen, it's tough to see him go, and there are a lot of people that are upset about it.
09:50But there's nobody in the NBA who is better when it comes to dribbling off their own foot.
09:58Like, really, Jalen Brown is the absolute best.
10:00Had that market cornered.
10:02Is that why he doesn't get the shoe deal?
10:04He's the absolute best at that.
10:06I'm glad you're right.
10:07This is John.
10:08John, good morning.
10:11I'll talk about Jalen Brown, Greg.
10:13Yeah, yeah.
10:15First off, the one thing I'm not going to miss is hearing these two guys referred to as the Jays.
10:22Like their 10-year-old AAU basketball children.
10:27Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, they're easy names, folks.
10:31Can we use them?
10:33What just happened here, Brad Stevens had one chance, and they didn't get onto Takumpo, and it became a money
10:43dump.
10:44Period.
10:45End of sentence.
10:46This team just became the Red Sox, and I hope all you Celtics fans enjoy it.
10:51I'm not even an NBA fan.
10:52I watch this from above.
10:54But this is exactly what it is.
10:56It's another venture capitalist group that is interested in one thing and one thing only.
11:01If they had any balls, they would have traded Tatum and his idiot coach Missoula if you really wanted to
11:07rebuild the team from the ground up.
11:10But it's clearly a money dump, and that's it.
11:13And if you are a Celtics fan, you should hate this.
11:16Yep.
11:16John, thank you.
11:17You know what I find fascinating?
11:18Yeah.
11:18The story that dropped two days ago.
11:21Yes.
11:21So this is going to be my lead.
11:23Oh, go ahead.
11:23Which is, well, it's just Bill Chisholm.
11:26I believe him when he says he's a Celtics fan.
11:29He's been a lifelong Celtics fan.
11:30You see him at the games, and he's like, you know, operating the T-shirt cannon.
11:35He's really into it.
11:36But, however, he spent $6 billion on this team.
11:41And I think you need to get used to this going forward, which is that they're not going to be
11:46handing out max deals to a whole bunch of guys.
11:49And that they are – the arena that they want to build is going to cost an absolute S-ton
11:58of money.
11:58And so they're going to – you may have the same complaint that you have about the Boston Red Sox,
12:04Curtis, about the Boston Celtics going forward.
12:06And there are a lot of people, Jones, sometimes Curtis, a lot of people who take shots at my guy,
12:15Wick Grosbeck.
12:16And, you know, it was not his money, his dad's money.
12:19But you know what?
12:20Wick spent the money when he needed to do max deals.
12:23They did max deals, and they won a championship.
12:26And so I hope you don't miss Wick Grosbeck when he's gone.
12:30That's my lead this morning.
12:32I think that's a great lead, and I think Wick was spectacular in the role that he had.
12:36I would say specifically, take a motion out of all this from the beginning.
12:40I said, there's no way you buy this team at that price at the peak of its value, right?
12:45Venture capitalists don't tend to buy things when they're maxed out unless you have another revenue stream that you can
12:50create.
12:51And the only thing that made sense was a Celtics-only facility.
12:55I said that the day this happened, everybody said I was crazy.
12:58And then last offseason, I said, they're cutting money.
13:02This is the new owner that's going in, and he's removing payroll.
13:05He is literally, step-by-step, taking apart a championship team.
13:10And now we're into year two of it.
13:12These Venture Bros ruin everything.
13:14They ruin Jersey Mike's.
13:16Have you gone to Jersey Mike's at all?
13:17No.
13:18Tiny little bit of meat.
13:19Ton of bread.
13:20I need more meat.
13:21Good morning, Lindsey.
13:25So, yeah.
13:26So let me ask you a question.
13:27So the money dump is for one year for $64 million?
13:30No, the money dump is long-term contract commitments, still like the Red Sox.
13:33All right.
13:34So then if you believe that, they're just going to do – Jason Tatum will be the only long-term
13:40max guy they do.
13:41And then they're just going to have a bunch of scrabines around them?
13:43They're going to be filling around it.
13:44Can I go?
13:45You're the basketball person.
13:47I just don't – it doesn't make sense to me because it's not like they didn't spend in free agency
13:51at the same time yesterday.
13:52Like, they – I'm not saying that it's not a cost-cutting thing because I do think that having –
13:58getting out of Jalen Brown's long-term contract was probably part of this.
14:02But they brought in Mitchell Robinson for a three-year deal.
14:06Like, it's not the cheapest deal that you could get for somebody who's not going to really contribute offensively.
14:11My question is, like, with the arena stuff, honestly, I'm going to be totally keeping it 100.
14:18That is above my head.
14:19Like, I don't know how the revenue streams work for something like that.
14:23I don't even understand how much of an investment it would take for – to, like, start that kind of
14:28project.
14:29They're supposed to have a 10-year lease with Delaware North, right?
14:33So if they wanted to go build an arena over by South Station or wherever, like, when do they even
14:39start that kind of project?
14:41So if you're going to resell the team –
14:43With a 10-year lease.
14:43Well, the Globe piece talked about the Postmaster General, who I think we just had with us on the show,
14:50is they have a – they want to sell that parcel of land.
14:56Yep.
14:56So government wants to sell it.
14:58Celtics can buy it.
14:59You can pay your way out of a lease that people do with their apartments.
15:02They do that all the time.
15:03Or with your car.
15:04But it'll take – like, yeah, like I want to get rid of the red turtle.
15:06It'll take –
15:07Five years?
15:08At least.
15:09It'll probably take 10 years in the city.
15:11Oh, yes.
15:11Oh, easy.
15:12The way they do permits and the –
15:14Okay.
15:15We'll get them with a white stadium first.
15:16But the thing, Greg, though, is that it's not about – or Mego, it's not about when the building is
15:20ready to be played in.
15:21It's that if the Chisholm Group has all this work and equity and sweat into putting into this deal to
15:26get it where it's being built,
15:28then it is far more lucrative for a new buyer to say, okay, I'll buy the Celtics now that you
15:35have this facility.
15:36It'll be ready in 2031.
15:37So you're saying, like – because I know – I hear, like everybody else does, how these venture capitalists operate.
15:42And that always scares me and everything.
15:44So you think that they would be intent on building an arena so they could turn around, like, five years
15:49after that once it's profitable and boom, sell the team?
15:51Not even before it's open, like while it's being built.
15:53He has to do that.
15:54So, like, a part of what – you know, they use their – that firm's funds to do this transaction,
16:01he has to – he's fiscally got to be – he's got to generate a profit.
16:09He has to.
16:09Of course.
16:09So then in this world that you guys are talking about, then that means the Celtics or Chisholm is going
16:17in the direction of the Paul George money is the short term.
16:21It adds up for Jalen and –
16:22Right, to get the deal.
16:23So you're saying after two years or next year, they're never going to be in the market.
16:29Mickey, you're going down these –
16:30I'm asking – so you're never going to be in the market for another max contract?
16:34I think they're going to add another super max contract in the future alongside Jason.
16:38But if it's a money dump, how are they going to – why would they do that?
16:41How are they going to do that?
16:41That's what everybody's telling me.
16:43Because they – for them, the most important thing for Bill Chisholm and his group is to build a new
16:47Celtics-only facility so that they can make money on the transaction.
16:51Yeah, I know that part of you.
16:52So that's what I'm saying.
16:53You keep saying that so they're not going to be – but if they go out and then they acquire
16:58another super max guy, then it looks like they're willing to spend money on players, right?
17:03So you always say things like, well, it looks like the Red Sox are back in it.
17:06Well, no, they've changed dramatically in how they approach building a team.
17:09But I see that though.
17:09And the Celtics, he bought the team and all he's done is take parts away and make it work.
17:13Okay, but Curtis, here's the thing.
17:14We knew that was coming.
17:16Last summer was a –
17:17You just said I would go on a dunk tank if they traded him.
17:19You didn't think they were trading him.
17:20So now you knew everything was –
17:21No, last summer was a different circumstance than that.
17:22Curtis, you just speak sometime without knowing what you said before.
17:26We knew last summer that they were going to dump salary because Tatum was done for the year.
17:33They weren't going to give Porzingis money.
17:35They weren't going to give Al Horford money.
17:37They were going to trade away Drew Holiday because they were looking at it like we're not going to have
17:43Tatum.
17:43So we're not going to have these contracts here that we know these guys are probably at the end of
17:48their career.
17:49So we're going to remove that money.
17:51That's what we knew that.
17:52From Gary Washburn today, the Bill Chisholm era has been filled with nothing but cost cutting since he purchased the
17:57team less than a year ago.
17:58It's one thing to pass on signing Brown to a two-year, $141 million deal.
18:02He was eligible for later this month.
18:03It's another to send him to a conference rival to boot its championship chances.
18:06Right.
18:07While you're left with a 36-year-old who suspended 25 games last season for violating the league's growth and
18:11state policy.
18:11Yeah, you read very quick.
18:13And you know what, Gary Washburn –
18:15I did also think J.F. – I mean, Abe Lincoln got screwed out of a third term.
18:18We knew that.
18:19Listen, everybody that followed the Celtics knew that.
18:23Like, so you're stating the obvious, Captain.
18:25No one last year said, oh, they're going to bring back poor Zingas, they're going to bring back Al Horfit,
18:31and they're going to keep Drew Holiday.
18:33No one was saying that.
18:34Everyone –
18:34Somebody said they were going to trade Jalen Brown.
18:36No, no.
18:37Well, that, in hindsight, if that's accurate, because you're guessing like everybody else, that was a dumb basketball decision then.
18:44Last year?
18:45Yeah.
18:45No, it wasn't.
18:46It was smart because you weren't going to have Tatum because of the Achilles injury.
18:49But you did.
18:49But how would they have done if they still had Drew Holiday?
18:53Right.
18:54Still had poor Zingas.
18:55Still had Al Horford.
18:57Your poor Zingas barely played because of injury.
18:59Al Horford hugged the end of the bench at Golden State.
19:02The only one that really was –
19:04Drew hurt him.
19:05Losing Drew hurt him.
19:06Drew was the only one that actually got a little burn and played well in Portland.
19:10Because Derek White and Peyton Pritchard suffered from Drew leaving.
19:13So Drew was the only one that I looked at – I didn't want to come – I didn't want
19:16to bring back Al Horford for $15 million.
19:18And I damn sure didn't want poor Zingas at $20 plus million.
19:21And I was going to take a look at.
19:21And I was going to take a look at.
Comments