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Europosłowie ścierają się w The Ring o odpowiedź na falę upałów w Europie
Europa płonie w rekordowych upałach. Czy politycy zawiedli, a klimatyzacja to jedyne wyjście? Benedetta Scuderi i Andrea Wechsler o skutkach złej polityki klimatycznej.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2026/07/02/europoslowie-scieraja-sie-w-the-ring-o-odpowiedz-na-fale-upalow-w-europie
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Europa płonie w rekordowych upałach. Czy politycy zawiedli, a klimatyzacja to jedyne wyjście? Benedetta Scuderi i Andrea Wechsler o skutkach złej polityki klimatycznej.
CZYTAJ WIĘCEJ : http://pl.euronews.com/2026/07/02/europoslowie-scieraja-sie-w-the-ring-o-odpowiedz-na-fale-upalow-w-europie
Zasubskrybuj nasz kanał.Euronews jest dostępny na Dailymotion w 12 językach
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00:00www.astronarium.pl www.youtube.com
00:30about the way we're dealing with climate change.
00:33Luis Albertos has more.
00:40Europe is the fastest warming continent on Earth,
00:43heating up at roughly twice the global average rate.
00:46As temperatures continue to rise, a critical question emerges.
00:49Is Europe prepared for a hotter future?
00:53The challenge goes far beyond climate policy.
00:56Cities are struggling to deal with extreme heat.
01:00Energy systems are facing growing pressure.
01:03And governments are being forced to find new ways of protecting society's most vulnerable.
01:08The debate is also increasingly ideological.
01:11Broader questions are being raised about consumption, health and sustainability.
01:16Should we forget climate change for a moment and just stay in our own air-conditioned homes,
01:21if we have one?
01:23Or is it time for drastic action to be taken to mitigate the worst effects of climate change?
01:29Difficult choices lie ahead.
01:33Well, a lot to unpack for our debaters.
01:36And here they are.
01:39Benedetta Scuderi, an Italian MEP from the Greens.
01:42She's a member of the Committees on Industry, Research and Energy,
01:46and Women's Rights and Gender Equality.
01:48Regarding the climate crisis, she says,
01:51In Europe we are witnessing a climate collapse and its most dramatic effects,
01:55such as uninhabitable homes, power cuts and blocked transport systems,
01:59but the right continues to deny climate change and to slow down the transition.
02:03This is not pragmatism, but a choice that is destroying us.
02:08Andrea Wechsler, a German MEP from the Central-Right European People's Party.
02:12She's a member of the Committees on the Environment, Climate and Food Safety,
02:16and on Industry, Research and Energy.
02:19She says,
02:20Targets and goals alone will not protect people, infrastructure or nature.
02:25The real question is how we deliver.
02:27We can lose ourselves in ideology, conditionalities and regulatory micromanagement,
02:31or we can move from debate to delivery, technology open, market open and innovation open.
02:39So let me welcome to the ring Benedetta Scuderi and Andrea Wechsler.
02:44Good to see you.
02:45Good morning.
02:45Both of you, and great to have you here.
02:48Now, the aim of the ring is to offer our viewers a glimpse at European Parliament debates,
02:53so you should feel right at home.
02:56Are you ready?
02:56Yes.
02:57Yes.
02:57All right.
02:58Let's start.
02:59Europe is once again facing record-breaking temperatures, wildfires and droughts.
03:05Is Europe ready for this?
03:07Is it prepared, or is this simply the new normal?
03:11Andrea, I'm going to start with you.
03:12Well, first of all, let me say that we have had 150 million people affected by the heatwave
03:17over the last couple of weeks, and we lost 1,300 people.
03:21And I think this loss shows us we are not yet prepared.
03:24We are doing everything now which is in our hands to find these issues at a European level.
03:30But no, we are not at where we need to be to protect people in Europe.
03:34Why are we not prepared?
03:35This is not the first time we had a heatwave.
03:38We had, you know, extreme weather in the summer.
03:41It's not just the summer, because we have extreme weather in the summer.
03:44We have extreme weather in the autumn.
03:45I want to remember Valencia.
03:47I want to remember the flooding also in Italy.
03:49We have extreme weather also in the winter.
03:51This is a pattern.
03:52It's a climate pattern.
03:53And we're not prepared because there's a lot of people in this parliament and in many
03:58institutions that still think that climate change is not an issue.
04:01And if we do not respond to this extreme condition in a systemic way, we will never be prepared.
04:08If we think that is one or the other emergency, now is the heat and then is the flooding and
04:12then is at the extreme conditions, we will not be prepared if we don't put money, we don't
04:18give systemic solution, and we don't understand that the issue is the climate collapse.
04:22If we still keep listening to who is saying that this is not a problem and that we have
04:27time, then we will never be prepared and the conditions are going to be worse and worse.
04:31Who is to blame for this?
04:32If every year, every summer, we're kind of taken off guard by the heat, by the heat wave,
04:38with the consequences that you've described, who is to blame for this?
04:42Well, scientific evidence is clear.
04:43We do have climate change and it's induced by human behavior.
04:46It's CO2 emissions that is partially responsible for the climate change that we have.
04:52And we now have pulled the right policy levers on a European level to tackle the clear signals
04:58that we have, how we need to address climate change.
05:00So there is not this one person to blame.
05:03But what we're doing now is take responsibility in the face of scientific evidence to tackle
05:08climate change in Europe and to lead to decarbonization.
05:12Well, it's maybe not one person, but is there one institution?
05:15Are there national governments?
05:17Is there a commission?
05:18All of them?
05:19We cannot blame one institution.
05:21It's a systemic problem.
05:23We can blame the multinational that, like, 57 of them are, like, the most polluted, the biggest polluter,
05:29and we are doing nothing about it.
05:31We can blame our governments because they're still not adapting as fast.
05:34We can blame the European Parliament also when they decide to do steps backwards on the climate,
05:40on climate laws, on climate regulation, climate-related regulation.
05:45I want to remember the deforestation, for example, the deforestation law that we had a lot of steps back.
05:50And this is one of the first steps that we need to actually take to respond to the climate crisis.
05:55It's the parliament also to blame, and not just the parliament.
05:58The parliament, the consul, and the commission, when they want to de-finance climate adaptation
06:03in the new MFF proposals, there is basically no money for climate adaptation,
06:08and we see the situation we are now.
06:09And we also need to blame internationally people like Trump
06:13that decided to not even go to COP and to get out of the climate negotiations.
06:20This is extremely dangerous.
06:21So, a weakening climate policy?
06:22Many people believe that your party is sort of part of the problem,
06:27not part of the solution when it comes to climate policy.
06:29How do you respond?
06:29No, we're clearly a part of the solution.
06:31We're not part of the problem.
06:32We clearly recognize that there is a climate issue, and we're tackling the climate issue.
06:36But what we're not doing is rolling back on climate legislation.
06:39On the contrary, what we are doing is to accelerate the implementation of the climate legislation
06:45that we've taken and that we've put into place in the European Union,
06:48which is the most ambitious continent.
06:50And this has been done under Ursula von der Leyen.
06:53The Green Deal is EPP policy, and we are now trying to combine the clean industrial deal with the Green
07:00Deal,
07:00which means, like, make it work now, but with technology openness and not with bureaucracy.
07:05If you take the deforestation legislation, that is not leading us to the effect that it's meant to have with
07:11the bureaucracy that comes with us.
07:13And this is what we're doing.
07:14This is not deregulation.
07:16Okay.
07:17Absolutely not.
07:18I am sorry.
07:19But the EPP is a big part of the problem.
07:23The EPP in this mandate is deciding deliberately to side with the far right on many legislations.
07:30And one of the two main topics is climate and environment.
07:34Deforestation is not bureaucracy.
07:36Like, fighting deforestation globally, that was the intent of the regulation,
07:40is the main aim that we have, is the main mean that we have to actually fight and stop the
07:47climate change.
07:48I mean, if we keep thinking that we're not giving answer and aligning with the far right and destroying the
07:55Green Deal,
07:55because there's many pieces of the Green Deal that have been destroyed by the EPP in this moment,
07:59without giving a direction to Europe, this is making us more vulnerable.
08:04Okay.
08:04How do you think about air conditioning?
08:07Air conditioning?
08:08I think at some point it becomes necessary, but we also need to make our housing and our buildings more
08:16efficient.
08:17And this is another thing that I will really have the EPP on board to not destroy the building efficiency
08:23directive, for example.
08:25I think also that this is a social justice issue, because air conditioning is only available for the richest part
08:31of the population.
08:32It's not available for the part of the population that is more vulnerable.
08:35And we need to provide to everyone the possibility of refreshment.
08:40Andrea, what is your position on air conditioning?
08:42Well, first of all, let me be very clear.
08:43We're neither destroying the Green Deal.
08:45We've made a clear commitment for the 2040 climate targets, nor are we destroying climate legislation.
08:50On the contrary, we're trying to make it work by accelerating the implementation of the climate legislation and by being
08:56clearly committed to the climate goals of the European Union.
08:59What about air conditioning?
09:01A big debate right now in Europe.
09:02Well, it's clearly to me one very important part in terms of an electrification strategy.
09:08We need a cooling strategy for people.
09:10We've had people, the elderly, the vulnerable, the children in schools, where it's impossible to survive or even to have
09:16schooling.
09:17Yes, air conditioning is one of the pillars and the solutions for the people.
09:21It's electrified.
09:23This is the way the European Union is going forward.
09:25It will be one part of climate adaptation.
09:27But this will not be enough.
09:28And that is why we're working on the implementation of the climate targets.
09:30But Benedetta mentioned the sort of social inequality when it comes to access to that technology.
09:36Do you think she has a point?
09:38Well, there clearly is one.
09:39And that's why it's so important that the Commission now comes up with a cooling strategy where we clearly need
09:43a targeted strategy that we protect the vulnerables first.
09:47And that is the elderly.
09:48That is hospitals.
09:49That is schools.
09:50And then it goes to private homes.
09:52And, yes, this is our task to make climate protection for the vulnerable.
09:56How can we implement such an idea?
09:58I mean, the schools, hospitals, et cetera, many hospitals and schools have air conditioning.
10:04Hospitals certainly more than schools.
10:05Not in our member states.
10:07Yeah.
10:07The point is, and again, I would like to take on board the EPP on this, we need funding.
10:12And this Commission is not putting funding on this.
10:15We've been asking since the start of the mandate some funding for building renovation.
10:20We have a building renovation directive, which we really want to keep.
10:23But that is, again, a social justice issue.
10:25Because if we don't have the funding, only the people that can afford the renovation will have efficient housing.
10:31And instead, we want especially the people that cannot afford the renovation, the public administration, the schools, especially in countries
10:38and regions that are in more danger to be able to afford renovation.
10:43And this Commission is not putting money on it.
10:46The Parliament is also not agreeing on this.
10:48Because we, for example, in the European Competitiveness Fund, are asking for a part of the money to go into
10:53building renovation.
10:54We've been asking it in the MFF.
10:56We are asking it in all the places.
10:59If you don't put the money, you can do all the cooling strategy you want.
11:02Should it be a European thing here or should it be left to the national governments because they're closer to,
11:08you know, the situation?
11:09Well, first of all, European money is endless.
11:12And we need to be very clear about where we put the money for the next couple of years.
11:16And, yes, it would be a great wish list to have air conditioning for schools on the MFF wish list.
11:21But this will not realistically work because we will not be able to fund European air conditioning in the breath
11:28as we need it.
11:28So our avenue in the EPP is clearly to fund innovative technologies to make the technology cheaper and to work
11:36on the lowering of energy prices in order to make the operation cheaper.
11:41So energy prices down, technology cheaper, and this is going to make it more accessible.
11:46And just on a side note, in Germany, air conditioning is considered to be a heat pump.
11:50And so you can actually get subsidies by the German state.
11:54So I think given the limitations of the budget on the European level, we should not put it into subsidies
11:59for air conditioning,
12:00but into innovative technologies on the one hand side and lowering energy prices on the other side.
12:05Let me just step in here as we're just getting warmed up.
12:09That is no pun intended.
12:10We are ready for the next round.
12:16Now it's time for you to challenge each other directly, just as you do in the hemicycle behind us.
12:23So Benedetta, this round starts with you.
12:25Yes, so my colleague has talked about the difficulties that many workers on the workplace have experienced in this heat
12:33wave.
12:34So I want to ask you if you will be available to support a call for a directive for the
12:40European Commission to protect workers,
12:44especially the most vulnerable ones, from heat waves.
12:46That means more breaks, that means understanding which are the temperature, that means changing the shift.
12:53We need a legally binding directive and we need the EPP on board because we can say we want to
12:58protect European people.
12:59All right, that's a long question.
13:01First of all, let me be very clear.
13:03We need to protect workers and we need to use the flexibilities and the law to protect them in place.
13:08There is already a big body of law for the protections workers in place.
13:12So before we call for a new directive, our EPP approach clearly is let's make an impact assessment of what
13:17directives do we have,
13:18what national legislation do we have and how does it fit together?
13:22Because what we do not want to have is yet a call for a new directive in elements which are
13:26already largely regulated on a European level
13:30and allow the member states for flexibilities.
13:32We have northern states where you have more protection for cold weather probably and then heatwaves where we have other
13:38member states.
13:40So let's keep the flexibility, clearly commitment to protect workers,
13:44but let's not do another directive without having evaluated what the current legislation already does.
13:49All right, now your question to Benedetta.
13:51Well, let me talk about technology openness, Madame Escuderi.
13:54If we want to really convincingly decarbonize,
13:58we need to be open not only for electrons and clearly electrification will be the main pathway for decarbonizing,
14:05but also for molecules.
14:08And what I see the Greens going for is that they do not treat all technologies that we need for
14:12decarbonization equally.
14:14Take CCOs, take low carbon hydrogen, take synthetic fuels.
14:17This is something we don't get your party on board.
14:20How will you approach renewable energies that comes from molecules?
14:25First, we need to understand what is the renewable and what is not renewable.
14:28Then we need to understand what is sustainable and what is not sustainable.
14:32But mostly, I think this is a way from a certain part of this parliament,
14:37and not just this parliament, but politics,
14:39to hide the fact that we want to keep fossil fuel in.
14:44Because CCT, it's a good technology,
14:46but only if we use it in a very, very hardly decarbonizing sectors.
14:51Instead, the People Party wants to use it in things like electricity production.
14:57And we have renewable energies for that.
14:59We don't need CCT.
15:00And this has been actually approved by the parliament in the project of common interest.
15:04And for us, it's absolutely impossible to sustain something like that
15:08because it's economically absolutely non-efficient, cost-efficient,
15:12and it's also dangerous for the environment.
15:14Low-carbon hydrogen is a very costly technology,
15:19and we saw it because we had a hydrogen program,
15:23and that was not flying because it's just not economically efficient.
15:27And instead, other technologies could be.
15:29And also, low-carbon hydrogen is made with gas,
15:31if you intend blue hydrogen,
15:34which absolutely doesn't make sense because gas is very costly,
15:38hydrogen is very costly,
15:39and it's still keeping the fossil fuel in.
15:42So what would happen is that we will not have low-carbon hydrogen.
15:45We will have gas inside the energy mix.
15:48And this is a strategy of the fossil lobby
15:50to have fossil fuel in the energy mix forever.
15:53We actually want to get out of that.
15:54So if we have technologies that are doing this,
15:57are cost-efficient and are scalable,
15:59the greens are all open.
16:00All right.
16:01We've heard the views from our guests.
16:03Now it's time to bring in a new voice.
16:09I would like to bring in Simon Steele,
16:12the executive secretary of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change.
16:16In a statement released last week, he said this.
16:20Until humanity stops burning colossal amounts of coal, oil, and gas,
16:25extreme heat will keep getting worse,
16:27and other climate impacts from mega droughts, floods, wildfires, and storms
16:32will keep hammering every economy and population harder each year.
16:38He certainly has a point here.
16:41But how realistic is it that we get off fossil fuel immediately in the European Union?
16:48First of all, he's right.
16:50Burning fossil fuels cannot be the way to the future
16:53because we know the impacts and we felt it in the heat wave.
16:56The question is how fast can we work on the transformation
16:59and what decarbonization levers do we have?
17:01So first of all, the strategy in the European Union is clear.
17:04Let's get independent from fossil fuels imports.
17:07Let's try to electrify in order to get the fossils out of our system,
17:12which is also a major issue in terms of resilience.
17:15And then there will be hard to abate sectors where we have to work on alternatives.
17:18We talked about hydrogen, which will be one of the important pathways to go forward.
17:22But there will be some sectors where we need fossil fuels
17:26also as a base sort of material in the chemicals industry.
17:29And we have to be open to use it at least in those processes where we cannot substitute it.
17:34But clearly, the majority of the policies targeted are towards defossilization.
17:40Benedetta, even if Europe acted tonight, right, or tomorrow,
17:45we cannot save the world alone, the planet alone.
17:49Now, a global climate policy is under pressure, if not under attack.
17:54You mentioned Trump earlier.
17:55How can we get the international community sort of back on track
18:00towards a common climate policy?
18:03Well, first of all, we need to keep our own goals and to not water them down.
18:08And again, like the climate law, we're very happy that we have a climate law
18:12that is setting a target for 2040.
18:14But again, because of the EPP lining with the far right,
18:18we couldn't have a very clear target and we have it watered down.
18:22How can we can expect to convince the rest of the world to have good targets,
18:26good policies, if we are the first that are doing that backwards?
18:29Second, we need to be clear on what we are financing.
18:33And again, I mean, I understand that we say that we want to phase out fossil fuel,
18:38but then if in the negotiation, if in the files,
18:41we don't say that no European money are going into technologies
18:45that are financing fossils and that all MFF
18:48is actually going to phase out fossil fuel as an aim.
18:52Of course, it's not happening in the next seven years,
18:54but that needs to be the aim also to MFF.
18:57Then we are not going into the right direction.
18:59Okay.
19:00Andrea, the EPP has been mentioned again.
19:03No, I mean, we are not watering.
19:04Is that cooperation with the far right coming to haunt you?
19:06No, it's absolutely, no, we are clearly standing by the climate goals.
19:11We fixed 2040 and yes, we have an offset to 85%
19:15because this is also reaching out into other countries
19:18and to allow for quick wins.
19:19We can do it perfectly here in the European Union with 90% in Europe
19:23and this will be very hard to achieve.
19:25And it's better to have the 90% with an offset in other countries,
19:28Article 6 in the Paris Agreement,
19:31which allows for it.
19:32It's foreseen in the international community.
19:34I think this is a very pragmatic way forward
19:37with still reaching the 90%,
19:39but giving flexibilities to achieve it.
19:41Okay.
19:42Are you happy with this answer?
19:43Absolutely not.
19:44We can do both and we should do both.
19:47All right.
19:47Let's take a break here on The Ring.
19:49We'll be back with more after this.
19:51Stay with us.
20:01Welcome back to The Ring,
20:02Euronews' weekly debate show.
20:04I'm Stefan Grobe and I'm joined by Benedetta Scuderi
20:07from the Greens from Italy
20:08and Andrea Wechsler from the European People's Party from Germany.
20:12Today, our topic is the sweltering heat
20:15that Europeans are suffering from right now.
20:17One aspect is the heat in our big cities.
20:20European cities can be up 10 degrees hotter at night
20:24than surrounding rural areas during heat waves.
20:27In Paris, for instance, nights are typically four degrees warmer
20:31than nearby countrysides.
20:32In Madrid and Rome, heat waves show 10 to 15 degrees surface temperature gaps
20:37between city and rural areas.
20:40Even Brussels, Amsterdam, Berlin now see more tropical nights
20:44and stronger nighttime heat.
20:47Should cities be legally required to provide more green spaces?
20:53I think the problem with Europe that has been the last mandate
20:56is that we had a lot of legal requirements
20:58but we had no financial support with it.
21:00And this is extremely unfair.
21:02What is happening now in the next MFF
21:04is also that cohesion funds are going down.
21:06So that means that cities in the most vulnerable regions
21:09are actually going to suffer over cuts of funds.
21:11How we can make a legal requirement
21:13to a city that is already extremely underfunded,
21:15we have a requirement from Europe
21:17and then we say, but then you see how to do it.
21:19then European citizens aren't going to hate us.
21:21We need to do both.
21:22We need to do regulation.
21:23We need to accompany people and cities to do this
21:26and we need to give the right financial provisions.
21:28Seeing there, I'm different.
21:29I say, no, we do not lead legal regulation
21:32because this is something that the municipalities,
21:34the nation states, in terms of subsidiarity,
21:36can deal with on local level.
21:38And they need to see what is possible to fund,
21:40where do the funds come from.
21:42And at the same time, every region, every city is different.
21:44We have very different elements in the city.
21:47So let them do their job on the ground.
21:49They do an fantastic job.
21:50That's an interesting question.
21:50Is it becoming a question of inequality?
21:52Absolutely.
21:53And this is a cohesion matter
21:54because there's inequality within Europe.
21:57That's why, of course, we don't need a very strong regulation.
22:00But we can have regulation of consumption of soil.
22:02That, for example, we propose,
22:04and again, the EPP has watered down,
22:06saying, like, no, let's not put it binding.
22:07So we still have a very high rate of consumption of soil,
22:12and Europe has done nothing about it,
22:14while we know that consumption of soil
22:15is very bad for heat waves and flooding.
22:18That doesn't mean that we need to say to the city how to do it.
22:21But we can say, okay, now we need to reduce the consumption of soil,
22:25and now we need to remake green some areas,
22:28and we can provide you with the financial support.
22:30That means more on resources.
22:33That means also maybe taxing the richest part of the population
22:36that's becoming richer and richer,
22:37and maybe doing some public debt as well, common debt.
22:40Thank you so far.
22:41And now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
22:49And here we want to do something different.
22:51I'm going to ask you a set of questions,
22:53and you can only answer with yes or no.
22:56Okay?
22:57Andrea, I'll start with you.
22:59Simple question.
23:00Is Europe winning the fight against climate change?
23:02Yes, they're on their way.
23:03Uh-huh.
23:04Benedetta.
23:06No.
23:06No.
23:07All right.
23:08Should new homes be legally required to withstand extreme heat?
23:11No, it's not another mandatory requirement.
23:14We go for decarbonization,
23:15and this is one of the main levers for housing.
23:18Okay.
23:18They already are for European directive,
23:20so I hope this answer doesn't mean that EPP wants to backtrack us on that.
23:24Okay.
23:25Has climate policy become too ideological?
23:28Yes.
23:30Yeah, from the far right,
23:32because they are attacking it without knowing it.
23:33Okay.
23:35And one more.
23:37Is there anything that you have heard over the past half hour from your opponent that you agree with?
23:44A lot of things, actually.
23:46We all agree that we need to fasten up on climate prevention, adaptation, mitigation,
23:52that we need to provide the correct funding.
23:55I think we have a different view on regulation on the role of Europe and the role of European budget.
24:04But there's other things that at least me and Andrea agree.
24:06I'm not sure the whole group of Andrea will agree.
24:10Andrea.
24:11Well, I think in the targets, we're absolutely aligned.
24:14And it's a question of how we implement it, even in the small targets, about air conditioning.
24:18I think there is a strong alignment.
24:20So let's make this work.
24:21There's always the argument that when it comes to climate policy,
24:26that says politicians haven't brought the public on board.
24:31Yeah.
24:31Is that something you agree with?
24:33I absolutely agree with that, because there's been a lot of targets.
24:38And I said this before.
24:39That was the problem on our last mandate.
24:41There were a lot of targets that I really agree with,
24:43but there was not enough guidelines, guiding and funding to actually achieve those targets.
24:50So if you say to someone, this is it, now you need to renovate your house,
24:54you need to buy an electric car, you need to do this,
24:56they will not be able to do it.
24:58But instead, if you say, okay, like, let's say to the member states
25:01that they need to renovate all the public housing that are inefficient,
25:05and we give them part of the money, and they need to find the other part of the money,
25:09then the part of the population that is in the most difficulties will have a better house,
25:14the targets will be met, and actually the most inefficient building park will be renovated.
25:19If we did San Fernandes, we would have the people on board.
25:23If we just said what to do, no.
25:24That's the very different approach from us.
25:26Like, we would not put it down from Brussels on the people and give them funding for it.
25:30But we want people bottom-up to have a business case,
25:33to understand that if they install a heat pump,
25:36this is going to be beneficial economically for the environment.
25:40Let them be part of the solution,
25:42and not paternalistically, from the top, from Brussels,
25:45bring it down to the people and give them funding.
25:48Have you ever been to the south of Europe, to the eastern Europe?
25:51Oh, yes.
25:52Do you see the condition of some people living there?
25:56Do you think they can afford to put a heat pump?
26:00And that would be the first vote.
26:01Energy prices in Italy are one of the highest...
26:03That is not about the energy prices.
26:05I know, I know, I know, but this is not the case.
26:07But the problem is that in some places of our continent,
26:12and not just in some regions, but like in the suburbs,
26:15and where the most vulnerable people live,
26:18people cannot afford to put a heat pump.
26:20So we're going to be like, oh, we give you a business case and you do it.
26:24They cannot afford to pay the rent.
26:26They cannot afford to pay the food.
26:28And we want to give them a business case?
26:30No, we need to give support.
26:32We need to give financing.
26:34And we need to want a Europass at once.
26:36So there has no differences.
26:38Instead, if we say, you do it on your local level,
26:40we will just increase inequalities and differences.
26:44Does she have a point here?
26:45No, well, I do see the point which she's trying to make.
26:49But eventually it will not work if you partner realistically make...
26:52You know, you're now forcing the people into transformation,
26:55even though they're in vulnerable areas,
26:56even though there is energy poverty.
26:59And it's taking them on board
27:00and having investments being made in those local communities
27:03is massively better.
27:05And if you talk about Italy,
27:06it's one of the most fossil fuel dependent energy systems.
27:09That's why here we have to change
27:11and then electricity prices go down
27:13and then you do have a business model.
27:15All right.
27:15I think we cannot solve the problem today,
27:19but thank you so much for a very interesting conversation.
27:22Then this brings us to the end of this edition of The Ring.
27:25Thanks again to Benedetta Scudeli and Andrea Wechsler.
27:29Thanks to our audience at home.
27:31If you'd like, you can continue the conversation
27:34by sending us your comments to the ring at euronews.com.
27:38That's it for today.
27:39I'm Stefan Grober.
27:40Take care and see you soon on Euronews.
27:46We'll see you soon on Euronews.
27:51KONIEC
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