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00:04Hi, this is Mariah Gullow from The Hollywood Reporter and I'm in studio with Richard Jenkins
00:08today. Hi Richard. Hi. How are you? I'm good. Very good. We are here to talk about The Shape
00:13of Water. The movie you're in, it's amazing. Guillermo del Toro. What else can be said?
00:21It's an amazing, amazing ride. Yeah, it's pretty cool. I agree. How did you get involved in the
00:28project? When did you know about it? Well, I didn't know anything about it and Guillermo
00:34sent me an email. I didn't know him. He called my agent and asked for my email. And he said,
00:40please read this script. I want you to play Giles and I hope you love it as much as I
00:45do.
00:45I read it. Next morning, I emailed him back and said, I think I do. That was it. That's wonderful.
00:53And I know that Guillermo had talked about just kind of ruminating on this plan for a long time.
01:00Before he even had a production designer, he had, you know, he had been working on what the
01:06creature looked like. Two years. Yeah, two years. And did you get to see those early sketches?
01:14No, I mean, I came on when they were ready to go. I mean, I think it was a couple
01:20of months
01:21after I said yes that we started filming. So everything was done by then.
01:27And the basic concept of the movie, without giving too much away, is what if, it's a what
01:32if scenario. What if the creature from the Black Lagoon fell in love with Julie Adams and
01:36she fell in love with him back? Right, right. And why not? Yeah.
01:40Yeah, it was, he always, when he watched the creature from the Black Lagoon, he thought,
01:43why can't they get together? These people come into his lagoon and ruin it, take it over,
01:51you know, come on. It was his house. And it's like, and Guillermo, that's what he saw when
01:56he saw the movie. And it's always been something he's wanted to do. But I saw Doug Jones, who
02:02plays the creature, in a total outfit, rubber suit that is amazing. I saw him at the camera
02:09test. So that was good.
02:11That was very cool. That was very cool. So after seeing the movie, I have to say that
02:17your character is the one that I identify with the most. And you know, the character development
02:22in this movie is really quite amazing. Guillermo has said it's about invisible people.
02:29It is. It is. And all of the people, our heroes in the movie are all invisible people, forgotten
02:34people. It takes place in 1962. And there's, there's a black woman, a mute woman, and a
02:41gay man, and all living in secret, and hiding. So.
02:47Hmm. So 1962, that you would have been a very young boy.
02:54No, I was, I was 37 in 19, no. I was in high school in 1962.
03:00Oh. How do you feel about how the, how the projection design went with the movie? Did
03:06you feel familiar in that?
03:09Um, well, you know, it's, I, this is my take on it. It's, my apartment in the movie was so
03:14beautiful. And her apartment was incredible. Everything in those apartments was authentic.
03:20Hmm.
03:21But nothing was real.
03:22Hmm.
03:23It was, it was conceptualized. It was, it looked like a movie.
03:28Yeah.
03:28It looked like a movie. It looked like what I thought movies would be when I was in college,
03:34in high school. And to walk on that set, it was like, is Spencer Tracy going to come around
03:39the corner? You know? Is Katherine Hepburn back there? It was, that's the feeling you got.
03:45Um, it was like, just so beautiful.
03:47Hmm. Tell me a little bit about, uh, working with, uh, with Sally. Um, you have a relationship,
03:55you're, you have a, a friendship in the, um, in the movie and she's a mute. So you have
04:01to kind of communicate in a different way. You have some really good comedic moments. You
04:05would do a little soft shoe together. Uh, what was it like working with her?
04:09It was amazing. Uh, we had a week and a half, maybe two weeks of rehearsal, but it was, we
04:15used it just to become friends. Um, I just love her. I just, I said to her, I said, you're
04:21my friend now and there's nothing you can do about it. Um, uh, we just had a great time.
04:25We laughed a lot and, and, and, um, we did that scene where she signs to me and I repeat
04:32her signing, which is something if you understand signing, you don't do. I mean, you answer the
04:39question when somebody, but the way she puts it is she said, you know, repeat what I say
04:46and I say, I can understand you. She said, no, I want to make sure you understand everything
04:50I say. She wanted me, she wanted to hear that, that, that I got all of it. So, um, we
04:57did
04:57that. We rehearsed that all a lot, but when we shot it, it was nothing like we rehearsed it.
05:02Um, so totally different. Yeah. Oh, that's amazing. Yeah. Um, you have like, you, you know,
05:10one of the things I love about, uh, Guillermo del Toro's movies is that there, he leaves a
05:15lot of room for characters to, you know, go through changes or, you know, there's, there's
05:21nobody who's one note in this movie. Everybody is transitioning. That's rare. I mean, that's
05:26rare. You usually have one or two characters do that. All of the people in this movie have
05:31lives and troubles and hopes and dreams and their own world that they, they live in.
05:37And I just, I just, that's very rare. And that's why we all left to these parts. Um, because
05:43yeah. And what was it like, um, you know, when you were working with Doug Jones, you said
05:49you, you got to see him as the creature, but when you were actually filming scenes, what,
05:55how were you interacting with him? Well, I thought we were, first thing, first scene I did
06:00with him was, um, he was in the bathtub and I was, uh, sketching him. The first scene where
06:06he, we had a kind of interaction, I was sketching him. And before we started shooting, I each,
06:10Doug was sitting in the bathtub like this, you know, and I thought we're like a guy in
06:15a suit, fish suit sitting in a bathtub. And I thought this movie doesn't have a chance.
06:21This is not working. And then they said action and he changed just a little bit, just a little
06:28something. And it was like, Oh, okay. I remember that. I'm surprised he wasn't smoking, you know,
06:35sitting there. But, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's a tough job he has. I mean, he's in that stuff
06:4215 hours a day. It takes three hours to put him in it and he's entombed there. It's totally covered
06:50except for his eyes and his mouth. It gives me the heebie jeebies thinking about it.
06:57Yeah, it does. I know just even wearing a Halloween mask can be very uncomfortable.
07:01I know, I know, you know, in, in, you have had to have body casts made of me and for
07:06a couple
07:07of projects and, and they put the stuff over you and keep holes for your, for your mouth
07:12really in your eyes, I think. Maybe it's just your mouth and it's, it's, it can get a little
07:19claustrophobic. So to be in that for 15 hours, man.
07:23Mm-hmm. Um, what was it like to, um, kind of create this, this world, this like kind of
07:31hyper realistic world within the, uh, like Cold War era United States?
07:38Well, you know, it was, I just leave that to Guillermo because he'd created it and when
07:43I didn't, I thought I knew what it was going to look like until I, but then I saw the
07:47movie
07:47and I was like, oh, oh, okay, okay. Um, you know, but it all felt, it felt authentic. It felt
07:56right. It never felt weird. It never, every, every car we drove and every, um, you know,
08:02every prop that we saw, every, it all made sense. Something about it made sense. And,
08:07and even the beauty, it's like poverty. The two apartments we live in are these kind of
08:11with paint peeling and water dripping and she's got, but it, it, it was such beautiful poverty.
08:18I, I mean, I, I just was, I, it was, I'd never seen anything like it. I mean, those are
08:24like
08:24the New York City apartments of my dreams. They are. Well, yeah. I always wanted a run down
08:29loft space. Right. But with a big window like that. Did you love that window? It was half in
08:35her apartment, half in mine. So they cut that in. So cool. So cool. Yeah. But it's his ode to
08:41film.
08:41Yes. His ode to film, his homage to film, not ode, ode would be. Um, it's, it's really cinema. And
08:48he shot
08:49this, there were no handheld cameras. It was all dolly tracks or crane shots. Oh, wow. And intricate.
08:59The camera was moving a lot. It doesn't feel like it, but it, it, it really moved a lot. So
09:05it,
09:06you know, I don't know how he does it. I don't, uh, we were shooting it. He kept saying,
09:13you think it's working? I mean, it's a very personal film for him. So he was taking a big
09:20risk. You know, how do you get an audience to root for these two to get together? It's
09:24like, I don't know, but he did it. Yeah. Um, there's a, your character is kind of in love
09:32with the golden age of Hollywood. Did you have to have a bit of an education on these old movies
09:36that you were gushing over? No. My wife is a choreographer. Oh. So I, I've lived in that world
09:42for a while. Um, you know, I, I don't know all of them, but I do know a lot of
09:47them. Yeah. And yeah,
09:50but I learned a lot from her over the years about these dancers and dances and, you know,
09:56the Busby Berkeley. Yeah. Yeah. And the, the Bill Bull, Jangles Robinson stare dance that they talk
10:02of. And I say Jimmy Cagney did one. He did, did it in, uh, um, Yankee Doodle Dandy. Is that
10:07the name of it? Yeah. Um, when he, after he meets the president, Roosevelt, he comes down
10:13the stairs and, have you ever seen that? Yes. Yeah. So good. So good. And, but Bill Robinson
10:19and Shirley Temple go up the stairs with their dance. Right. Right. Um. People have no idea
10:26what we're talking about. No. Oh man. Um, I do, I do love old Hollywood movies. I do too. I,
10:35I, I love
10:36going into a Hollywood soundstage. Yeah. Because it hasn't changed. It's been that way for, yes, for
10:4180 years. And it's like, you know, Marlena Dietrich was in here. You know, uh, Cary Grant shot a movie
10:50in here. Errol Flynn. You go to Warner Brothers, there's a, they have plaques on every soundstage of
10:55every movie that's shot in that studio, in that soundstage. It's so, if you, I was watching
11:00a, um, a movie at Warner Brothers for press that I was doing and I hadn't seen it yet.
11:06So they set up a screening for me and my wife and I were sitting there in this maybe 40
11:11seats,
11:1230 seats in this, and I think, who sat here and watched movies? I mean, it hasn't changed.
11:20It's so great. Yeah. Um, so when you were able, have you been able to
11:25see, like, the, the movie as a whole, final cut, colored, everything? Yep. I've seen it
11:30four or five times. Oh, and what, what were your impressions going from kind of just working
11:36on it to, like, seeing the final version? Oh, it was mind-blowing. It was, yeah, because
11:41I didn't really have a handle on how, um, what a beautiful thing he had made. I thought
11:49I knew, but I, I just didn't. I know, I remember the first, I remember uttering, wow, the first
11:58few minutes where she goes to work and it shows the next time she goes to work and with the
12:04eggs boiling and the timer and things speed up the next time. I just was like, okay. I
12:09knew, I knew what the, what it was going to be, but I had no idea how they were going
12:13to
12:13do it. Right. Right. And do you, are you able to kind of release your own, um, self-criticisms
12:20or how you analyze your own performance or, or scenes involving you always going to make
12:26you go, oh, the biggest that take. Yeah. Yeah. I did. It's hard. It's hard to watch yourself.
12:32You know, I don't like it, but, um, uh, you know, it, it's get over it. I get over it
12:38and
12:39watch the movie, you know, and actually I've kind of forgot I was in it. I was so taken
12:44with it, you know, and then I would show up and it was like, oh, yeah. Um, yeah, you really,
12:49it's, I mean, he, I just got lost in the film. I saw it the first time I saw it
12:54was in an
12:54editing room and it wasn't, it had temporary music and it had a lot of the, a couple of the
13:00effects weren't finished. Um, um, but it just blew me away. And then when I saw, uh, Alexander
13:07Desmond's score, it was just, yeah. Yes. He is amazing. He's incredible. Yes. We've
13:14had him in here before. He is, he is incredible. And he's hysterically funny. Yes. Um, so before
13:22we go, I have, uh, four last questions for you. First, best, last, worst. Um, what is the
13:29first movie you fell in love with? Alfie. Came along at a time when I needed it. Yeah. Um, I
13:46was thinking, I was an acting student and not doing well. And I thought maybe I didn't have it.
13:52Maybe I should do something else. And I wasn't sure if I should pursue it. And I went to the
13:56theater by myself in 1966 and saw Alfie. And I thought if I could ever do something, even
14:06one-tenth as interesting as Michael Caine did, I, uh, so it just, that kind of propelled me
14:12to keep doing it. Hmm. Amazing. Uh, best named character you ever played?
14:21Oh. Um, I, uh, geez. How about Walter Vale? I mean, it's a pretty mundane name, but there's
14:37also a ring to it. And it was for a mundane character who had a ring to it. Um, it's
14:43something,
14:43it was, I think it suited the character as well as any name I've ever had to say or be
14:49called. Mm-hmm. Excellent. Uh, last job you had before becoming an actor? Um, well, I drove
14:59a laundry truck in Chicago and in Racine, Wisconsin and Kenosha, Wisconsin. And I drove it for four
15:06or five months and I had four or five accidents. So I realized I'd better be successful as an
15:13actor because I can't drive a laundry truck. That's great. You just burned your bridge right
15:17behind you. I did. I forced myself to be an actor. So why did I say that? That's how you
15:23have to do it. I told you I had an accident once. I wasn't even in the truck. Oh no.
15:28I,
15:28one of the laundry bags hit the gear shift and knocked it out of, and, and I didn't have the
15:33emergency brake on. I was delivering laundry and it went, rolled down a hill and hit a
15:36car, parked car. Oh. And I came out and my truck was gone. And I, I looked down the hill
15:41and there was a guy standing in front of his parked car and my truck shaving. It was early
15:45in the morning and it was half, I had half shaving cream on it. It was dumb. He was just
15:49looking at his car. How did this happen? Oh, that was, you know.
15:57Uh, worst career mistake and how did you fix it? Oh, oh God.
16:03Yeah. I make so many mistakes and I can't think of any that I fixed.
16:09I don't think I, I haven't repaired a one. I try to forget about them. Yeah. Well, you
16:16learn from them. That's, that's pretty much what you can do, but you can't, can't fix them.
16:21Sure. You can't go back. No. Can't go back and save that laundry bag. Oh God. My father-in-law
16:29got me the job. And John C. Reilly's dad was my boss. Amazing. Yeah. And, uh, I felt
16:35I was going to cost my father-in-law his job.
16:40I guess it all worked out in the end. Yeah, it did.
16:43Well, Richard, thank you so much for being with us and, uh, enjoy your premiere. Thank
16:47you. And, uh, the movie is The Shape of Water. It's Guillermo del Toro's new masterpiece
16:53and, uh, I recommend you go see it. Yeah. Go see it. It's really fun. Thank you. Thanks.
16:59Thanks.
16:59Thanks.
17:00Thanks.
17:02Thanks.
17:03Thanks.
17:04Thanks.
17:04Thanks.
17:04Thanks.
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