- 5 hours ago
Female Producers Say "Superstar Actresses Are Not So Easily Dismissed, They Fought
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00:00Often I feel like I get too nervous to reach out and be like, hey, like, can I get some
00:03advice, you know?
00:04And in truth, it's a real gift.
00:06If there's any kind of experience, strength, and hope that you have that you could actually impart to someone, so
00:13reach out.
00:14I will. I'm getting everybody's contact information after this.
00:18I will help you set up the bakery.
00:19Yes.
00:21You do baking, and then you do pottery, and then you mix it up.
00:25You would think I could help you with the pottery, but unfortunately, I cannot.
00:29Okay, okay.
00:30I just got that.
00:32Yeah.
00:33That's what I was joking about.
00:34That's what I was joking about.
00:36That's my life.
00:37That's my life.
01:04That's my life.
01:06Welcome to the Hollywood Reporter Actress Roundtable. We have a remarkable group of actresses with us here today. Let's dive
01:13in.
01:14I guess, show of hands, who here has ever signed on for a role that you were really excited about
01:19and then gone home and thought, what have I just done?
01:23Yeah, Zoe?
01:25Yeah, I think more often times than not.
01:30The series that I'm doing right now, Lioness, which was a show that was very dialogue heavy, and I wanted
01:37to challenge myself and sort of like address my dyslexia and my anxiety by taking on a character that really
01:44was, you know, commanding with a lot of dialogue.
01:47And the moment I said yes, I went home and I looked at my partner and I was like, I
01:51don't think I can do this.
01:53And then obviously the next day was just, you know, roll your sleeves up and just, you know, create all
02:00the tools that you need to get there.
02:03But it was really nerve-wracking.
02:06I don't think I've ever done that, but I do remember the first film I made when I was, it
02:11was the second film that I made, but I was in every shot of it.
02:15I remember going home after one night's shooting and lying in the bath and trying to plan how I would
02:22break into the British Film Institute, which was making the film, to seize the dailies and destroy them.
02:30And it was really, really, really figuring it out.
02:35I knew Rathbun Place, which is the street in London.
02:38I was figuring out, there'll be a night watchman.
02:41What could I do to distract him?
02:42I was really going down that line.
02:44But why, why did you want to see the dailies?
02:46Yeah, it's the same thing.
02:47Why?
02:48I think, to be honest, I just didn't, couldn't imagine that any film in which I was in every frame
02:57was going to be anything other than unbearable.
03:00And there was no, you know, in the first film I was in, I wasn't in every frame and there
03:04were lots of other people.
03:05And I was always interested in seeing their scenes play out.
03:08I would go and watch them work.
03:10But when you're in every shot, yeah.
03:14Yeah, it's difficult to imagine.
03:17I mean, whenever I see a film that I'm in, for the first few times I see it, my face
03:22is kind of fuzzed out like on those police videos, you know.
03:25And then slowly, like the third screening, I'll go, oh, yeah, it's you.
03:30Yeah.
03:30Does anybody relate to that?
03:32I mean, I think the first few times watching it through, it's always a little bit of the dissecting of
03:38what you've done, what you could have done to then step back and be able to then really take in
03:42the whole, let go of your own ego attachment to what other people think.
03:51Where you can then really kind of embrace.
03:54But even now, can you watch yourself?
03:57I don't mind looking at myself.
03:58I find it very hard to hear myself.
04:00I can't watch myself.
04:01I can't.
04:02I don't like hearing myself.
04:03I don't.
04:04I'd rather watch myself.
04:05You have such a beautiful voice.
04:06That's so interesting.
04:08But do you feel that?
04:09Would you rather, if you had a choice, would you rather watch yourself silent or hear your voice?
04:13I don't like either.
04:15I really have trouble watching myself too.
04:17I don't.
04:17There's many films I've never seen.
04:19There's things I don't.
04:20I can never watch dailies.
04:21I don't.
04:22I don't enjoy watching myself.
04:24There's films you haven't seen.
04:26Yeah.
04:26Wow.
04:27That must be very tantalizing.
04:31I'm tempted.
04:35No, because I don't know.
04:37I think like you, you know, we all probably have more discomfort with the presentation of self as much as
04:43I love the work.
04:44I love the process.
04:46I don't want to think about what I look or sound like or else I don't know if I'd be
04:49as free.
04:50Yeah.
04:50Exactly.
04:51And then I think once it's over, I do want an audience to connect, but I don't.
04:59There's nothing I can do.
05:01Yeah.
05:02Do you feel the same way over the films that you've directed versus the ones that you've performed in?
05:07No.
05:07I'm better when I'm not in it.
05:09Yeah.
05:10Yeah.
05:11You can sort of separate and watch your work objectively, right?
05:15Yes.
05:15When you direct it versus, yeah.
05:17Yes.
05:18Zendaya, what are you thinking as you're hearing this?
05:20You've been quietly listening.
05:21I just, it's so interesting because like I said, I'm such a fan of everyone here.
05:28So it's so, now I'm just like, I'm just taking it in.
05:32And sometimes it's hard to go, oh, I should speak too.
05:34But because I want to ask a lot of questions.
05:38But yeah, you know, I find for me at least that I'm a very self-conscious person.
05:45Like everything I do, I'm very self-critical and I find that being on a set is one of the
05:50few places that I like just don't judge myself.
05:53And I can just like be super free because I'm like, wait, it's not me.
05:56Like, you know what I mean?
05:57I wouldn't make that decision.
05:59I'm not that, I'm not, like I can just exist in this person.
06:03And I feel almost like, while still very attached to them, also detached to them.
06:07So like, I feel like, I love when a director's like, hey, come here and just point something out.
06:12And I don't mind watching myself because I'm like, it's not me.
06:14You know what I mean?
06:15It's like this weird thing.
06:16And I don't actually ever get weird about it until I go, oh, people are going to see this.
06:22That's when, like once it's like time to promote something and actually like, I'm like, oh, oh, now I'm self
06:27-conscious about the work that I just made.
06:29But up until this point, I was like just in my little bubble of like creative freedom.
06:34And it's not until you realize like, oh, this won't belong to just me forever.
06:37Like the world will consume it at some point that you start, my head starts going.
06:42So I like living in that little creative pocket.
06:45That's a beautiful way.
06:46That's a really beautiful way.
06:47That you're holding that.
06:50I think it's a very evolved place to be in, actually.
06:55Yeah, it is.
06:56Because I think it takes a lot to get past that part where we are able to not be self
07:04-conscious.
07:05Yeah.
07:05I think that that is a real gift.
07:07I'm going to just take that little gem.
07:09But it's also what you're speaking to is when you look at yourself on a monitor or even in the
07:16film eventually, it isn't, it's not just not you, it's not yours.
07:21Because it's the light, it's the makeup, it's the costume, it's the design.
07:27I remember once, years and years ago, the second film when I was in Every Frame.
07:32And I remember like in week 10 thinking, I want a little bit of praise.
07:37Where am I going to get it from?
07:39But I was too proud to ask anybody for anything.
07:42So I thought, I know what I'll do.
07:44I'll ask the editor.
07:45I'll ask him which is his favorite shot in the movie so far.
07:49Because I'm in 99%.
07:53And so I went to the editor and I said, what's your favorite shot?
07:56And he said, oh, that's really hard.
07:59There's that shot in the close-up of you.
08:01And I'm thinking, I'm in with a chance.
08:03He finally said, yeah, I think I got it.
08:07It's this close-up of you in this moment.
08:11I don't know how he did it.
08:14And it was genius.
08:16It like cured me in that moment.
08:17I thought, yeah, he's right.
08:19How did the cinematographer do that?
08:21How did the cinematographer frame it and light it?
08:24Correct.
08:24Not actually much to do with me at all.
08:26So I never asked for any praise ever again.
08:29It like cured me completely.
08:30And that's what you're speaking to.
08:32Because you look in the monitor and you go, well done.
08:35Well done, everybody.
08:36And you're in there somewhere.
08:37Yeah.
08:38But it's not just you.
08:39So it's such a collective thing.
08:41Absolutely.
08:42Well, you truly are like an amalgamation of like all these genius people's ideas.
08:46I mean, that's what we were just talking about with directing.
08:49Because I would love to direct one day.
08:52And you've been able to do it in a beautiful way.
08:55And something that makes me so nervous is that.
08:58And she was like, but there's people to help you.
09:00Like there's these gorgeous team of people that we get to work with that create, I think, just as much
09:05as we do the characters that we play.
09:07So, yeah.
09:07Yeah.
09:08Mikey, when I think about having a lack of self-consciousness on set, I think about the opening scenes in
09:14Anora where you're in this nightclub.
09:17And as I understand it in the script, there was not a lot of direction for you, right?
09:22You were just told to go up and approach customers, potential customers.
09:26Can you talk a little bit about what that was like?
09:28Yeah.
09:28So all of that is improvised.
09:31Sean created an entirely live set.
09:34So there's music blasting, a DJ's playing, there's my co-workers all over the club, men everywhere.
09:43And Sean shot it on a long lens.
09:46So he was in the corner of the club and he would just follow me around, picking up men, talking
09:52to people, talking to my co-workers,
09:55trying to get guys to come to the back room and get a dance with me.
10:00So we just shot 30 minutes straight of that and then whittled it down to a couple minutes of the
10:09film,
10:09which is the introduction into Annie and who she is.
10:13It's a great intro.
10:14It's so wonderful.
10:16It's such a wonderful intro.
10:18And that's exactly what we get, is that absolute, you're so entrenched, you're so embedded in the world of it.
10:25You don't for a second not believe that.
10:28It's really wonderful that you're doing the film.
10:31You should be very proud.
10:32Talking with the consultants was the most important part of the preparation.
10:38I think it's just understanding how psychological of a job it is to be a sex worker.
10:46It's not only physically demanding, but it's mentally demanding as well because you're having to walk up to someone and
10:53immediately try to connect with them,
10:55try to, in that moment, understand what it is you can offer them, what kind of connection you guys can
11:00have together.
11:01And it's this instant, like, very intimate setting that you're in.
11:06And so I think it can be quite draining mentally.
11:11And then physically as well, you're on your feet all day, dancing in these really tall stilettos.
11:18And so I think it's just understanding the stamina that comes with that kind of profession.
11:25Being able to get to know the sex work community has been one of the most impactful things that's ever
11:33happened to me.
11:33Because these people are just incredible, and I have so much respect for what they do.
11:39And I think that the film would be completely different, and Annie would have been a completely different character if
11:44I hadn't have done any of that preparation.
11:47Did you have a different idea of who they were before you had a chance to really get to know
11:52them as people?
11:53I think I went into my research, like, very naively.
11:57I honestly knew very little about sex work and what that was like.
12:02And I had never been to a strip club before, so I knew I needed to dedicate a lot of
12:07time to that.
12:08But I was just able to get to know these women as people, like, just woman to woman.
12:14And I've made a lot of incredible friends.
12:19Zoe, it was so fun to watch you dance in Amelia Brown.
12:22Yes, by the way.
12:24What was it like to get back to dance, which is really how you began in this industry?
12:30It was, I felt like it was a true gift.
12:33I was given the opportunity to reconnect with parts of me that unconsciously I just left behind.
12:40And I was yearning.
12:41I was just yearning and missing them a lot.
12:44As a New Yorker, you know, I've been saying this a couple of times, you're born with jazz hands.
12:50And then you spent, like, your whole life unjazzing your hands, because at any moment you're like, duh.
12:58But when you grow up in New York, you know, if your grandmother saves some money, then she'll buy some
13:04raffle tickets, you know, some tickets.
13:06And then she'll take you to the theater or you'll go to Lincoln Center.
13:09And I remember being a child and walking by Lincoln Center, and she would go, look, look, look, while she
13:14was, like, smoking her cigarette.
13:16Like, one day, one day you're going to be there.
13:18And I remember thinking, like, what is she saying?
13:20And then it's very beautiful when things come full circle.
13:24But I do believe that you do have to find a way to manifest them.
13:27Do you think you manifested this role in some way?
13:30I did. I did.
13:32By really wanting it.
13:34I think that after a certain while, you, at least for myself, I just, I fell into this pattern of
13:43going, being an autopilot constantly.
13:45And I was a part of really successful films that became franchises.
13:49And I have no regrets.
13:51They gave me so much.
13:53I worked with amazing people.
13:55But they're very time consuming.
13:57And this is all happening whilst I'm starting a family.
14:00So that desire to grow, to sort of shatter whatever glass ceiling I felt like I was falling under, was
14:10growing more and more, you know, as the years went by.
14:15And I just, I wrote a list.
14:17A couple of years before booking Emilia Perez, I wrote a list with my team.
14:21And I said, well, these are the top five directors that I would love to work with.
14:25And, like, I think that Jack was in the top three.
14:29He was always somebody that I loved.
14:32And I love the fact that Jack challenges me to question whether or not, you know, I have enough humanity
14:39when I look at people.
14:41You know, who do we consider redeemable?
14:44And Emilia Perez was this story with four women that are not perfect.
14:49They are damaged.
14:51They're products and they're victims of their environment.
14:54But they're making their own decisions.
14:56And they're on a quest for their most authentic freedom.
15:00I loved the fact that, in the end, it's a very simple story.
15:05And it's just peppered with all this complexity of their environment and their choices.
15:10And you start out in the movie and you look at, you know, Rita.
15:14And you're like, well, if you're a lawyer, you know damn well what's the difference between right and wrong.
15:18Why are you defending this criminal?
15:19And why are you going with manitas?
15:21And why are you doing all these things?
15:22But you can't really look at a woman or a person this way.
15:28What does she want?
15:31She deserves to want something.
15:34She wants power.
15:35She wants success.
15:36She wants beauty.
15:37She wants money.
15:39And that's great.
15:42So once I inhabited sort of that body of hers, nothing was going to stand in my way.
15:52It was quite exciting to be in Rita's world, knowing that the unthinkable was about to happen.
16:01She was going to get this opportunity to break free from these chains.
16:04And she was never going to look back.
16:07And dance and sing.
16:08And dance and sing.
16:09That was like the icing on the cake.
16:11Yes, yes, yes.
16:12It was amazing.
16:14And the rehearsals were grueling.
16:16And I welcomed it every single day.
16:19I wasn't dancing.
16:20Rita wasn't dancing.
16:21Rita was exploring.
16:23And Rita was thinking and feeling.
16:26So those breaths of song and dance were just her thoughts and her emotions.
16:31So once I think about it from that sort of perspective,
16:38I just needed to know that all those moves were going to be in my body so that I would
16:42not be limited by them.
16:44Because they were not dance moves.
16:47They were just...
16:48Expressions.
16:49Expressions.
16:50Exactly.
16:50And be able to blend so many parts of me.
16:54Spanish is my first language.
16:56And it's the language that I was sung to for the first time, all the lullabies.
17:00That's how my mother healed me.
17:02She made me.
17:03She cooked for me.
17:04Loves me.
17:05Like in my language.
17:07And as I grew older, I felt like an imposter living double, like a double agent.
17:14Where, you know, behind closed doors, this is who I am.
17:18And outside, this is this other person because I am American.
17:22But I felt like my craft was really not getting the best of me because, I don't know,
17:28there's something really beautiful about being able to incorporate so many parts of you and what you do
17:34that makes it a much more thrilling experience, you know, to go through.
17:41And a much more passionate process for me.
17:44So it was a great gift.
17:46Had you made other films in Spanish before?
17:48I mean, I've said a couple of lines here and there, but never a Latina, you know.
17:54Yeah.
17:55How was it also then working with the director who essentially speaks French?
17:59It was amazing.
18:00There's something really beautiful about Jack.
18:02This is not the first film that he does in a different language of his own.
18:07He's not limited by language.
18:09And it wasn't, you know, the set wasn't only a Spanish and a French set.
18:13There was a lot of English.
18:14There was a lot of Italian.
18:16There was a lot of any language that we needed to be able to communicate.
18:21But, you know, when you're synced with people, it's a language is just, you know, one more tool.
18:28So that, it was a beautiful process.
18:32Angelina, when we talk about singing as a tool, you spent six months learning to sing like Maria Callas.
18:41What did you learn about yourself in that process?
18:45Oh, so much.
18:48I'm so happy to be here at this table to talk to all of you.
18:51It's so nice.
18:52She's an artist.
18:53It was the first time I'd played an artist.
18:55And so to have this discussion has been interesting because so much in your connection to your body,
19:00to your music is so exciting to see you do so many things that, you know, hadn't yet seen you
19:04do on screen.
19:05And very exciting as a fan to see that.
19:10I was really frightened because it's something I'd never done.
19:13And I had someone in my life say that I couldn't sing.
19:18You know, when you have someone, it could be anybody, but just someone, it could be a passing.
19:23And somehow it had this effect.
19:26I didn't realize how much that had blocked me.
19:29And also I didn't realize how much, and I think singing or not, just as women and performers, I'd lost
19:36my voice.
19:37I didn't know my voice.
19:39I think I didn't understand how much life changes your voice, whether it be childbirth or death or someone you
19:48love or sickness or whatever it may be.
19:52But we hold things in our body, we change the way we are.
19:58And somewhere along the way, I'm 49 years old, somewhere along the way, I lost my voice.
20:04So it was such a gift to have these seven months to have someone hold my hand and help me
20:11take a deep breath and try to make sound again.
20:14And I didn't realize I could sing.
20:18And I didn't know I was a soprano, which made no sense to me because I don't think I have
20:23that voice.
20:25And to discover opera, which is such a beautiful art form and one that I felt somehow wasn't for me.
20:32I don't know why.
20:33I think there's certain things that maybe we think, oh, I didn't, whether it's a language, right?
20:38That this is a language that isn't for me.
20:40It's people who are raised here or more familiar with this or it's very sophisticated or very, you know.
20:47And so I felt like I was able to learn about this world and make sounds in a different way
20:53and use my body and my voice in a different way.
20:58And if you haven't tried to sing opera, I recommend it to everyone because it's the only thing I've ever
21:04done where you have your full physical body, your full vocal, and your full emotion.
21:12And we, especially as women, are very rarely allowed, asked, encouraged to give that.
21:20To use our own voice.
21:21With everything.
21:23Well, our full power.
21:24All of it.
21:25All of it.
21:26With everything we've got and not feel we are adjusting to the room, to our children, to a man, to
21:34society, to let, right?
21:36Something along the way forms us and we don't bust out with everything that we are, especially.
21:42So I felt like it was a gift, as you said.
21:45And Maria Callas is one of us.
21:47She was a woman and spent a lot of time in her process alone, which is why this is so
21:52lovely sitting here and realizing, thinking of her and being at the...
21:55She didn't have this table.
21:57A lot of women in the past didn't have this table, right?
22:00There weren't as many women doing certain things and they didn't have a community in this way.
22:04And so important that, you know, I was also surprised I got here today.
22:08So many of us have been aware of each other we've never met.
22:11It's quite strange, you know, really.
22:14We don't have many opportunities to just actually connect in the form of community and really, you know, just even
22:22reflect as artists or experience or process.
22:26It is a bit of an...
22:27It can be, let's say, a bit of an isolating experience.
22:31It can.
22:31You are encouraged to be isolated, right?
22:35Well, I feel like it used to be that notion that you needed to always stay super hyper-focused on
22:41your journey and not seek support, right?
22:45Or not lend support.
22:47And I feel like it's the most important thing.
22:50But it's such a mirage because...
22:52Exactly.
22:53Yes, it is.
22:54It's not real.
22:54I mean, we all know how important our women friends are to us.
22:59It's everything.
22:59It's everything.
23:00And there's a sort of strange trapdoor in society that people kind of slip through and they're not aware of
23:08it.
23:08I mean, men...
23:09So true.
23:09They give the impression that they're not aware of it.
23:12They also give the impression that they don't have the same kind of, you know, collective feel together.
23:18That's their affair and they have to figure it out if it's true.
23:22It's probably not true.
23:23It's probably not.
23:23But at least there is a strange kind of myth around it.
23:26But this is a beautiful table.
23:28This is a beautiful moment.
23:29I mean, you know, the glamour at this table, except for me, is...
23:33You are the most glamorous.
23:34You are incredibly glamorous.
23:36I'm right on.
23:37You are the most glamorous woman.
23:38But let's imagine that, seriously, that this is, you know, this must be encouraged.
23:43To just see it and shoot the breeze as women.
23:47Yes.
23:47And acknowledge.
23:49And also this whole idea that women don't make movies.
23:52I mean, as we all know, women have been making films as directors.
23:56And I don't just mean as performers, since the very beginning of cinema, Lois Weber was
24:02the very first director in 1904 or something.
24:07Wow.
24:08And that's the reality.
24:10But there's a strange sort of mesmerism around it.
24:14We're all supposed to forget it.
24:15And also, we're all supposed to be pitched against each other.
24:19That's the thing is that it isn't a competition.
24:21And that's been the illusion that somehow that's been bought into versus this idea that when
24:27one rises, we all rise.
24:29And that when we walk the path not alone, we also expand exponentially.
24:35Yeah.
24:36It's so important.
24:37But I think it's something my sense is, to generalize, that it's the collective kind of
24:43view is something that comes so naturally to women.
24:45More naturally, the whole idea that there's only room for one may suit men better, or the
24:51society of men better.
24:53But I don't think it suits women.
24:54I think we know how to do this.
24:56This is what we do.
24:57Yes.
24:58You know, we sit around tables and we chat.
25:01And we support each other.
25:02And we witness each other.
25:04Absolutely.
25:05To me, the substance is so much about the way women's bodies are criticized, the way we
25:09criticize our own bodies.
25:11What was it that drew you to that theme?
25:15I mean, first of all, the script was such an interesting out-of-the-box read, like something
25:20I'd never read before.
25:23And the way in which it was exploring the issue of aging.
25:27And while the circumstances were set in Hollywood, it was an actress, which I think just heightened
25:33and kind of grounded it in something that everyone could identify with.
25:38The thing that really grabbed me was the exploration of the violence we can have against ourselves.
25:44It's that way in which we can dissect and criticize.
25:47And that I have found, at least in my own experience in life, that it's really not what anyone else
25:54has
25:54ever done to me.
25:56The impact has always been on what I do to myself.
26:00Internalized.
26:00There was that powerful scene.
26:02The going out scene?
26:04The going out scene?
26:04Yes.
26:05Oh, my Lord.
26:05Tell me.
26:06It just, it spoke, it was such an intimate and just raw, transparent, you know, portrayal
26:13of what we can do to ourselves.
26:15Yes.
26:16How we commit self-harm on a daily basis sometimes without even touching our bodies.
26:21We can just be so like, you know, you're not worthy of going out and the removal of the
26:26makeup.
26:27And even in the way that you were looking at yourself, with so much, you were so self-critical,
26:34you know, and I just, I felt it and it was so powerful.
26:37I'm so grateful she came to you.
26:40I'm so grateful.
26:41That was a good idea.
26:42I mean, I mean, it was really definitely, I think the other thing as an actor that I've
26:49never explored is I didn't really have other people that all of my scenes were almost all
26:55alone.
26:55And I had no dialogue.
26:57So everything was in that kind of odd, intimate moments we have with ourself, where we are
27:05often naked, looking, dissecting, thinking.
27:08Um, and it was a really interesting challenge to step in and really create a full life for
27:14her at all times so that it was alive always because I didn't have someone else to kind
27:21of feed off of.
27:22So it was, and, and it was also very technical.
27:26So there, a lot of times the technical aspects, which you've done a lot where there's the technical
27:31sometimes takes priority over the sensitivity of an actor's process.
27:36Right.
27:36Or that she sometimes liked to start this close instead of a little wider to find it.
27:41But it was, um, but that was really it.
27:45I think that it was so relatable in a way that it felt like it was an important message that
27:50needed to come across for us to all start to reevaluate how we're holding ourselves,
27:56that, that need of greater gentility.
27:59Um, you know, it's, um, I've had obviously a lot of conversations having three daughters
28:05and one of the things that my middle daughter said at one point is she says, I want to quit
28:12wasting time focusing on all that I'm not when I could be celebrating all that I am.
28:16Beautiful, beautiful.
28:18And that, first of all, I said, maybe I've done a good job.
28:22But also that that is it.
28:24That is, that is, that is it.
28:26That makes me want to know.
28:28So if we do this to ourselves, how do we break out of it?
28:30Because it's ultimately about self-acceptance.
28:33It's about really looking and appreciating who we are as we are right now.
28:37You know, where, and that involves changing, like how we change, we evolve, and it isn't
28:43the same reflection in the mirror.
28:45And I think it's that idea is what I trade having, you know, as one woman said, she's
28:52just more loosely wrapped.
28:54Would I, would I trade being more tightly wrapped for the wisdom that I've gained and who I've
28:59become as a woman today?
29:00Right.
29:01I don't think I would.
29:03And, and at the same time, appreciating all of the different parts of me that have brought
29:08me to where I am today.
29:10It's like embracing the shadow sides, the sides that, you know, when we can look at our
29:16triumphs that have come through our obstacles, our challenges, our failures, we can see them
29:22not as a failure, but as an opportunity for growth and a win.
29:26Mm-hmm.
29:27Mm-hmm.
29:29Zendaya, we have become, as an audience, used to seeing you play.
29:32You play a kid, used to seeing you play a teenager, and Challengers, for a good portion
29:36of the movie, you're a grown woman.
29:38Yeah.
29:39What was that like?
29:41You know, it's a, it was, it's kind of like the scary step in a person's career where you
29:46go from like, for so long, I feel like I was playing a teenager pretty much way past where
29:52I, when I was one, and I, and I appreciated that so much.
29:59I mean, being able to play Rue has been one of the greatest gifts of my life, but there
30:04comes a time where you got to start playing your own age and beyond.
30:09And, you know, it was a scary thing.
30:11And also, you know, Challengers 2, it was kind of like my first time in like a leading lady
30:15role and kind of taking that responsibility as well and, and, and, and being a part of
30:21the producing, you know, aspect as well.
30:24It was all very exciting and also very like daunting, you know, but I think for me, I
30:32think, I think when you read certain characters, you're like, I just can't pass the opportunity
30:37to play this woman.
30:39Like I, she just was refreshing to me in her unapologetic nature, you know, she doesn't
30:45apologize for, you know, her behavior, which I, I appreciated it in this way and her sense
30:52of control, um, or her need for control as her life is kind of falling apart and her
30:57vicariously having to live through other people.
30:59And I think it, it spoke to me because I love my job so much.
31:02I'm so grateful that I get to do this for a living.
31:05And I think like, what if it was all taken away?
31:08And for her, her, her true love was tennis.
31:11That was like, that's all she ever wanted.
31:13And it, and, and there, you know, thankfully I get to do this for as long as I really want
31:19to.
31:19Um, but an athlete, you know, you only have a limited amount of time until your body doesn't
31:24do what it used to do.
31:25And, um, I think an injury is like when it gets snatched, you can't reverse that and it
31:33gets snatched from her so quickly.
31:34And I, um, and she in her own way loses her voice, you know, it's like, she doesn't know
31:40who she is anymore without this thing.
31:42And I think that's something that in my own life, I was understanding as a young woman
31:46coming into this thing, like I've been working since I was a kid and I was like, wait, who
31:50am I when I'm not working?
31:52Like, do I have a life?
31:53What do I even like to do?
31:55Like, what are my hobbies?
31:56What, what, what are my interests?
31:58Like, who is Zendaya outside of this?
32:00And so I just deeply related to that idea of like desperately wanting to hold on to this
32:04love and this thing.
32:06And, um, and in her, it manifested in maybe some more toxic, um, actions, I'll say, but
32:13not to judge her because I know where it's coming from, you know, it's coming from a place
32:17of truly vulnerability.
32:18Like I remember one of our first conversation was like, what kind of like cream does she
32:22use before bed?
32:23You know what I mean?
32:24Like what, what is her like, what, what is like being this, this woman or this presentation
32:30is so important to her, how people see her, how people view her, um, how she comes off
32:35to other people.
32:36And so she's got to have the best stuff and it's, you know, it's soaked to bed and it's,
32:39you know, all these things.
32:41And then you see it kind of unraveling and falling apart and she's just trying to hold
32:44everything together, like hold this, this, this, uh, this ideal.
32:49Um, so yeah, I just, uh, it was nice to explore a character who, like I said, is unapologetic
32:57and while she makes very different decisions than I would personally, um, it, it was, it
33:03was, there was a freedom there, um, and being guided by Luca in that way as well.
33:09And again, back to the amalgamation of everybody, Siam Boo, who's incredible and made it look
33:14gorgeous.
33:14And, um, our costume, uh, Jonathan Anderson did the costumes, which was amazing to kind
33:21of see his artistry come out through that and, um, felt very like supported, um, in this
33:28kind of becoming a woman on, on camera, you know, and one thing that was really powerful
33:35in, in your character that I resonated with me and, and, um, it's emotions that we suppress
33:41that we never like to admit that we feel.
33:43Your character felt so much jealousy that these men that in her, in her mind were so undeserving
33:51of this gift, of this talent.
33:54And I, I, it was, it was just amazing to see that, to see a woman be equal to a
34:00man when
34:01it came, when it comes to aptitude, when it comes to talents, when it comes to wit and
34:06all of these things.
34:06And, and her competition weren't other women, it was the partners in her life.
34:10It was, it was quite interesting.
34:12Her, her boys, um, yeah, well, I appreciate that.
34:18And I, you know, um, again, it was exploring parts of, uh, a life that I haven't lived yet,
34:24having kids or being, getting married and, you know, these kinds of things.
34:27She's already had this part of her life.
34:29So it, it was, I was strange to kind of embody that part of myself that hasn't quite existed
34:36yet, you know?
34:37Um, but I guess that, that is my job, but, but it was, you know, it's a different
34:42touch point, you know, it's a different, um, part of yourself that hasn't quite been
34:45explored yet.
34:46But yeah, I just, I don't know.
34:48I appreciated that.
34:48She just said whatever the hell she wanted to say.
34:51And I was like, girl, maybe we should stop slapping people, you know what I mean?
34:56And then getting a little crazy.
34:57But, um, I mean, she's entirely herself and, and I, and I appreciate that, um, both Justin
35:04who, who, who wrote, wrote the, uh, screenplay and, and Luca allowed her to be, um, exactly
35:10who she was.
35:11It was never trying to like explain why she was like this.
35:14She just liked this.
35:15She was like this when she was younger, you know?
35:17It's like, it wasn't necessarily the injury that made her this way.
35:21She just is this way.
35:22Um, and I just, I appreciated being able to explore that.
35:26Well, it was unapologetic also in her ambition and her drive, which is what I loved.
35:31Me too.
35:31And, and that when there was that, because of what was so beautiful was the subtlety of
35:35the grief that I felt you held underneath and then just activating it into like chant,
35:43you channeled it over into their success.
35:46Right.
35:46You're saying you said it beautifully.
35:48But also I think to back to like a bigger conversation of this idea of like not ever
35:53being able or allowing, uh, women the space to like, to grieve or to have a moment to
35:58yourself.
35:58I think she is so conditioned to be like next, like there's no time to like, feel sorry for
36:04yourself.
36:04There's no time to like, to grieve to, you know, and she just immediately pivots and she's
36:10like, okay, new plan.
36:12And I think that that is that thing of like allowing ourselves moments, like be a person
36:17and we don't have to hold it all together.
36:19We don't have to.
36:20Like our humanness.
36:21Yeah.
36:22Be responsible.
36:23Just our humanness.
36:23It's about a relationship with success.
36:25The whole idea of success being the Holy Grail that you're going for, whatever that means.
36:31I mean, for a, for a sports person, it means something very, very clear.
36:34Yeah.
36:35And that everything else takes second or third or fourth place.
36:39And where does the living happen?
36:40Well, it's also that question of identity.
36:43Like who am I without?
36:45Yeah.
36:46Because what we do isn't actually who we are.
36:49It's just what we do.
36:50But I think that takes time to kind of find, find within yourself.
36:57You know, it's like early part of life, you're just striving to see what you can do.
37:02And then if you find enough of it, it's like then having to separate and live and have more of
37:10a balance in your existence.
37:13Zendaya, did you feel like you've figured out what your hobbies are and who you are when you aren't working?
37:18You're still working on that.
37:19Next question.
37:20Next question.
37:21Next question.
37:21Next question.
37:22I think it's just, it's, it's, it's a thing that I'm figuring out and I'm learning as I go along.
37:27I think having time off accidentally really was time for me to go, okay, we gotta, we have to have
37:35like a person outside of, you know, your job.
37:38It's really all I know.
37:39And I also think like, because I'm so passionate, I mean, I'm lucky that like my hobby is the thing
37:44that I do for a living.
37:45It is my thing that I would want to do if I wasn't going to work every day.
37:49Like it is everything to me.
37:51But, but what other than that, you know, is, is brings me joy.
37:57And I think that for me, it's been about just trying new things.
38:03As stupid as it sounds, like, uh, pottery or, you know, anything with your hands or something, learning new skills
38:12or crafts.
38:13And even if it's like, okay, well, I tried that for like a week, you know, but I tried it.
38:18You know what I mean?
38:19Oh yeah.
38:20Try making sourdough bread.
38:22I got into baking.
38:23Oh my God, what a humbling experience.
38:24I got into baking.
38:26I did.
38:26I can make a good scone now, you know, but.
38:29Wow, that's impressive.
38:30Scone?
38:30A good scone.
38:31I got you.
38:33But, um, but it's just trying to find other things that, that can bring you joy and, and
38:39make you happy and, and try to discover who, um, my life is outside of like the presentation
38:45of who I am, you know, and, and not being so tough on yourself all the time, you know?
38:52Well, when you've worked from when you were a child, which most of us have not had that
38:57experience, when did you start working, Mikey?
38:59I was about 16, almost 16.
39:02That's pretty young still, isn't it?
39:05It's, I mean, it's, I, I, I take my hat off to both of you.
39:08It's quite an achievement to work as young people.
39:12I mean, it's hard enough when you're older, but to work as young people and for, for you
39:17to have worked since you were so young, to, for that to have been part, because the rest
39:21of us, we were, you know, climbing trees and not making any money.
39:27It is, it's, it's an, it's odd.
39:29It's, it's odd.
39:30And I have a, um, complicated relationship with the idea of like child actors or child
39:35acting in general.
39:36Um, because I've seen it be detrimental to people and, and, um, I don't know.
39:43I just, uh, I am grateful.
39:45I'm so grateful that this is how it turned out.
39:47I wouldn't change it.
39:48But there are things that I like, I'm like, dang, I, I'm going to, there are things I
39:51wish I kind of lived, uh, privately, you know, and tried to like, cause you're figuring out
39:57who you are, uh, in front of the world.
40:01And you're like, I'm trying to do this right.
40:02And I want to make everyone happy, but like, I don't really know who I am yet.
40:06You know what I mean?
40:07I'm still figuring it out.
40:08I have no idea what I'm doing, you know?
40:10Um, which I guess that is true for all of us at any point in your life.
40:13You know, I, I say my mom had like her butterfly moment at 50 when she got her first
40:17tattoo, or I, I pushed her to get her first tattoo and now she's covered.
40:21She's got like sleeves basically.
40:23Um, so I think, you know, you can reinvent yourself and butterfly at any point in your
40:27life, which I think is beautiful.
40:29But, um, but yeah, it is odd to do it so young.
40:33I'm excited for you finding all your fabulous life.
40:37Yeah.
40:38And pottery and scones, but I appreciate being able to have moments like this because I
40:44feel like at least now the connections are made.
40:46Like the people I can reach out to and, and ask questions because all of you have such
40:51experience and, um, that's so valuable, you know?
40:55And, and often I feel like I get too nervous to reach out and be like, Hey, like, can I
40:59get some advice, you know?
41:00Um, because this kind of community is so important, you know?
41:04And like, um, it's special.
41:06And in truth, it's a real gift to feel like if, if there's any kind of experience, strength
41:11and hope that you have that you could actually impart to someone, like that actually is enriching
41:19to the other person.
41:19Absolutely.
41:20Like to be able, like, and we, I, I, I certainly forget that.
41:24Forget because I want to not be vulnerable.
41:28I want to not think that I don't have it figured out, you know?
41:31Yeah.
41:32So reach out always.
41:35I think it's like, I'm texting, you know, getting everybody's contact information after
41:40this.
41:41I will help you set up the bakery.
41:43Yes.
41:44Yes.
41:45And it's like, you do baking and then you do pottery and then you act as well.
41:49You would think I could help you with the pottery, but unfortunately I cannot.
41:53Okay.
41:53Okay.
41:55I just got that.
41:56Yeah.
41:57That's so funny.
41:59We actually did that in Euphoria.
42:00We did.
42:01Oh, you did?
42:02Oh my God.
42:02We did a read a bit of that in Euphoria.
42:04I just realized.
42:05Sorry.
42:05I was a disaster with the pottery.
42:06You were?
42:07Oh my gosh.
42:08I mean, mine literally looked like the pots I made look like kindergartner pots.
42:13I feel like they're probably collector's items.
42:15Ghosts.
42:16I was joking about.
42:17That's what I was joking about.
42:18That's the right list.
42:19Oh my God.
42:20I think I just got it too.
42:21Yeah.
42:22It took me a second.
42:22I was like, oh, I can imagine Demi sitting there like that, all kind of flooding back.
42:31Tilda, Pedro Almodovar works fast, I hear.
42:35Like he's a one take, two take kind of guy.
42:38Yeah.
42:38And in this film, you have some long monologues.
42:41Were you doing this one takes, two takes, move on, or did you ask him for more?
42:46Both.
42:47There was begging, but nope.
42:50He seems to know what he wants.
42:52And I was nervous about that.
42:54I was nervous that he was going too fast for us to have an opportunity to squeeze the orange,
43:01you know, every which way, which I love to do.
43:04I love, I've worked with David Fincher, who everybody is, you know, the legend is that
43:08he'll go a hundred takes.
43:10And I happen to love that too.
43:12Really?
43:12Because then you know you've done it.
43:14You know you've, you know.
43:15It's all there.
43:16It's all there.
43:16And, you know, you figure it out.
43:18It's very challenging, I find, that the two take thing, or even the one take sometimes,
43:23especially with a lot of dialogue.
43:25Like, do you ever ask for another?
43:27Do you often ask for another?
43:28Yeah.
43:30Yeah.
43:30Yeah?
43:31There have definitely, I mean, on Sean's films, there would be times where we'd be stealing
43:36shots, we'd bring this film camera into restaurants, clubs, and to a pool hall once, just filming
43:44on the street, and like, trying to steal things, and sometimes I don't, you don't feel like
43:48you got it, and so it's like, well, let's maybe, let's just go in one more time, but
43:51you kind of can't.
43:54And then obviously, our film being such a small budget, there were some days where we're just
43:58like jam-packing scenes in, trying to get things done, and I'm like, wait, like, I just,
44:04need something more, but I think actually, watching it back, the things that we did end
44:10up getting was just right in the moment, because the film is so, it's so hectic and
44:16frenetic, and you're feeling that as an actress, trying to make sure that you got it, and it's
44:23not possible, really.
44:24It's not possible.
44:24There's no such thing.
44:25It's not possible, and I actually believe that this is, for me anyway, this is possibly
44:30the most difficult part of the work, is letting things go.
44:34Yes.
44:34Moving on.
44:35And having the discipline to just go, do you know what, I didn't think I got it, but
44:41you know what, getting it is impossible, and what do I know anyway?
44:46Yes.
44:47Because very often, we think we got it, and you can speak to this, Angelina, as a director,
44:54that the performance thinks it's been nailed, but actually, that's the overshot one.
45:02That's the one where it's burst.
45:04And the one that felt a little rickety, and there was some kind of weird energy around it,
45:08that's the golden thing.
45:10But you can't necessarily feel that inside.
45:13That's why a director can say, trust me, we got it, we're moving on.
45:19And you have to go, okay.
45:22I trust you.
45:23I trust you.
45:24Sometimes easier.
45:24You're Pedro Almodovar.
45:25Sometimes easier than other times.
45:27Sometimes easier than other times.
45:28Yeah.
45:29It's a feat of faith.
45:31Yeah.
45:32Angelina, do you feel that way coming into Maria having directed?
45:36Does that change the way you work as an actress?
45:40I have more of an understanding.
45:42I was always an actress that loved the crew, and I was always an actress that understood
45:46I was a piece of a whole, and loved that.
45:51But after being a director, you are much more aware of all the pieces and all the needs,
45:57and you are very conscious that an actor is important, but a piece.
46:02Mm-hmm.
46:03And if you've...
46:06I loved casting.
46:07I found casting very interesting as an actor, and I think if you've directed or will direct,
46:11that as an actor, you maybe are looking for something else, because you know when you're
46:18in the pocket, you know your authentic self, and you know it's not some perfect presentation
46:24or some idea of this or some perfect reading.
46:26You know it's this, like, someone that has something behind those eyes, someone who's
46:33a little messy, someone who's a little brave.
46:36There's all these other things you look for.
46:37A person.
46:38I think a lot of what makes an interesting actor is an interesting person.
46:42Mm-hmm.
46:42And then if you build a family, which is very much the set, and you kind of encourage everybody
46:52to bring their best, then you have this space where everybody shows up in different ways
46:58and collaborates, and I tend to find that the actors know I push them and I root for them.
47:07Mm-hmm.
47:07But I try to, you know, you communicate.
47:10And every actor's different.
47:11It's very interesting.
47:12I have my process in learning about the other needs of other actors that are so different
47:16from me to make sure I, you know, I'm there for what they need in their process.
47:20To me, in the third act of The Substance, you're wearing tons of prosthetics.
47:25You become this creature.
47:26And I just wonder, what was the process like of putting all that on and figuring out how
47:32to act through it?
47:34You know, it's interesting.
47:36It's so delicate and fragile.
47:38It's not like you have practice time with everything on.
47:42It's kind of, you're finding it in some respects on the day.
47:46I mean, there was some preparation.
47:48I mean, the time for me in the chair was anywhere from six to nine and a half hours.
47:54Wow.
47:54And which is a lot.
47:57It's a lot.
47:58And also because there's such a, there's a surreal element to this, trying to also figure
48:04out what's the logic.
48:06Like what's, you know, oh, I'm degraded and aged, but I can also run like a bat out of
48:14hell.
48:17And, you know, so there's like kind of that, that kind of practical, logical part of my
48:21brain that was really wrestling with what it was.
48:24And I will also say, and you also must know this too, Zoe, but it's a much easier read
48:32on paper than the physical of like being in there.
48:36And at the same time, I also think the time in the chair, which it's helpful if you can
48:43get very still and Zen also allows you to actually move into embodying and shifting.
48:51Like for me, it was like a slow progression over that time and allowing it to kind of become
48:57part of me.
48:58Mm-hmm.
48:59Yeah.
48:59Mm-hmm.
49:00It is a growing process.
49:01Yeah.
49:02I was going to say.
49:03Six to nine hours.
49:03Six to nine and a half hours.
49:05But when it was, when we had to do the whole body.
49:08Yes.
49:09Okay.
49:09It makes sense.
49:10The legs, everything, right?
49:12And it's very delicate.
49:13You can't really eat or drink because it's so delicate.
49:15Things will fall apart.
49:16And I think probably the most challenging is having somebody touch you constantly.
49:23Yeah.
49:23That was, that, that was what required patience.
49:27And the taking it off.
49:27The taking it off is the really long bit, isn't it?
49:30No, it's actually much quicker.
49:31It's like an hour.
49:32You open up that bottle of wine, you put your music on, little Sam Cooke, and you're
49:35like, da-da-da-da.
49:37I'm done.
49:38And you're taking all that green off.
49:39It's always a funny word.
49:41I mean, she's on the left and the left.
49:43Isopropyl mirror state.
49:44Is that it?
49:44The stuff that you take it off.
49:46Isopropylone or something.
49:47Yeah.
49:48Where you're scraping away.
49:49Oh my God.
49:50I mean, I will say Coralie was one of those who loved to do many takes.
49:55Many, many takes.
49:56Like wiping the makeup off my face with each section was 15 takes at least.
50:03Wow.
50:05And that, I could have used a few less perhaps on that one.
50:10But I never like to give up.
50:12If they feel like if they're saying the director says they need it, like I want to keep going.
50:19Yeah.
50:20I think it's important to have that communication.
50:22It's when they really tell you what's going on.
50:25It's when you have no communication from Video Village.
50:29And you just keep going over and over again.
50:32Because you just don't, it feels like you're just throwing spaghetti on the wall.
50:37Like, give me something.
50:38An adjective.
50:39Give me any kind of direction.
50:40One sentence.
50:41Five words.
50:42And then they'll explain to you.
50:42And then I can give you five more takes.
50:44That it's actually not about you.
50:45It's because the wind is not hitting the trees right.
50:47I know.
50:49And then you feel like, oh boy, am I here.
50:50And then you go, okay.
50:51You're perfect.
50:52It's just, the light is not.
50:54Yeah, so then you're not sitting there going, what am I not doing right?
50:56And you're like, let's go again.
50:57What's wrong with this?
50:58Let's go again.
50:59Let's give that wind a chance.
51:03Zendaya, in Dune 2, you're in the middle of the desert.
51:05And it's this big, epic sci-fi movie.
51:07But it's sort of built upon this romance.
51:10And I'm kind of curious how you figured out how you were going to flirt in space.
51:15In space.
51:15What was the trick?
51:17I think it's really leading.
51:18It's Zenny.
51:19He's such a, I mean, a special filmmaker, obviously.
51:23But like, just very easy to work with in the sense that he always knows what he wants.
51:28And it's very clear.
51:29But also gives you room to play as well, where you feel kind of supported.
51:34And I think for that, it was like, you know, they're not, it's not like, you know, a normal scene.
51:41Like, what's up?
51:42Like, you know, you're cute.
51:44Like, you've been here before.
51:45You know, this is.
51:46I think that would have worked too.
51:48There's a version of that, you know.
51:49That's more you in space.
51:51Yeah.
51:52Yeah.
51:54So we're like, how does this fit into the Dune universe?
51:57How do we, you know, get these two people that are technically young people falling in love?
52:02You know, this whirlwind romance.
52:04Also stealing shots in between because there is so much.
52:08It's such a massive piece of work and we really are just like a little part of it.
52:14Also like being in the desert and you have limited time to shoot every day because the sun is right
52:20in this perfect place.
52:21And, you know, so I think my thing was just like being as prepared as I could and then trying
52:26my best.
52:27Like in those, there was like one scene that we could only really shoot for like an hour a day.
52:33So we kind of like over the course of a few days shot like a scene.
52:36Because of the light?
52:37Because of the sun.
52:38Yeah.
52:39And so you're trying to like, okay, we were here yesterday, but how do we get back into that, the
52:45tenderness and finding these moments?
52:46And Denny in the beginning, he would say, I'm going to do like a glances pass.
52:50I'll ask you guys to like just look at each other from across the room.
52:53And I find that there's like so much you can do without words and without scenes.
52:57Just like a glance between the two of them really built this love story and made you believe it.
53:05Because again, there's so much going on.
53:07So it's like, how are we going to tell this story when there's like all this action?
53:10Like so many storylines to fill and build and make it make sense.
53:16So it was the glances pass, you know, just these little, little moments of like, I see you across the
53:22room and it says so much for the characters.
53:25So, yeah, I just felt very lucky to be a part of it, you know, like from the beginning, I
53:31was just like, I'll play like a tree, the sandworm, like, what do you need?
53:34You know, like, this is so cool.
53:37Like, I just want to be there.
53:38How much does what's going on in the outside world politically, geopolitically affect your choice of projects and your choice
53:45of how you spend your time in your work?
53:47Is that something that figures in at all?
53:49I remember very early on in my career, I felt a couple of times at my, you know, these self
53:57-made crossroads where being a daughter of immigrants and being Latina in America,
54:05as you start to grow in your career, you carry on this responsibility to represent your community.
54:12And I stopped that.
54:14I made that choice and it felt risky, but I made it with all my heart in hopes that it
54:21was the right decision that would help my community by following my heart.
54:25But that's not to say that I may one day feel compelled to make a decision on a material that
54:33has a very important conversation around a cause or an event that should be present in people's minds and in
54:41people's tables, you know, when they're having dinner.
54:43That's not to say that I'll never, ever, you know, consider that.
54:48It's interesting to hear, as I always say, that felt like a risk.
54:50And I wonder when you reflect on your own careers, what's a moment that felt like a risk?
54:56I think the things that, I think when you look at something where you know you're being pushed out of
55:02your comfort zone that scares you,
55:07is are those moments that you are taking a risk?
55:10In a certain way, it's, we take a risk every time.
55:13We don't know.
55:14There's no guarantees.
55:15There's no formula.
55:17I think at least, and I think it's the risk that makes it exciting.
55:23It's the risk that, because you know if you step into something that you know that you're going to be
55:28better on the other side.
55:29You know, as you were talking Zoe, I was just thinking about, do you guys, any of you feel like
55:37that, in a way that roles find you as much as you find them?
55:42Yes, absolutely.
55:42And that there are things that you gain from it, not that you always know, but that you get from
55:47the other side.
55:48That there are parallels, for sure.
55:51Well, everybody has their own comfort zone, and so, as you say, to go out of that comfort zone is
55:59always going to feel like a growing possibility.
56:03My comfort zone is to work in very close, collective communication with people.
56:09I've always done that from the very beginning.
56:11And for me, a massive risk would be to go and work with people that I didn't know.
56:15That would be the biggest risk.
56:18But I know, and this is one of the reasons I've always found it very difficult to name myself an
56:22actor,
56:23because I know that, in general, actors don't work this way.
56:26Actors generally work alone and encounter a loneliness a lot of the time,
56:32and are going, with great my admiration, into these foreign territories,
56:36with all their talent and all their inspiration kind of within their own arms.
56:42And they'll go into these foreign lands and bring it to bear.
56:46I'm incredibly impressed by that.
56:48But I can't work that way.
56:49And I don't know that I ever have really gone into a foreign territory.
56:53I'm a coward in that way.
56:55I think a lot of people would disagree.
56:58Yes, it's your right.
57:01We are coming toward the end, and I wanted to wind down.
57:05Actually, I wanted to share something you had said in an interview, which was interesting.
57:09Oh, Lord.
57:10It's good.
57:11It's good.
57:11You were talking about your friendship with Pedro and how you had met,
57:15you said you met at a Hollywood party where you bonded over feeling like outsiders.
57:20And you said you were, quote, both shy and tickled pink and pinching ourselves,
57:25but not confident enough to step in and talk to, say, Angelina Jolie.
57:31She was there.
57:32She was one.
57:33It was a South Park moment.
57:34And we had Liza Minnelli over here.
57:37And we had, you know, Sacha Baron Cohen over there.
57:39And Angie was there.
57:40And both Pedro and I were, like, scorched with the glamour of it.
57:45We just couldn't believe that we were present.
57:47That was so funny.
57:47And I was probably, because I never go out really alone and not sure anybody wanted to talk to me.
57:53And probably would have, I would have been so happy had they said hello.
57:58This is the truth of human animals.
58:00Yes.
58:01We're all shy, right?
58:02Yes.
58:03Yes.
58:04And I guess this is why we're here.
58:05I mean, how lovely to see you all connect like this.
58:09Thank you so much for being here.