- 5 minutes ago
In an exclusive interview with India Today, Harish Salve said that a passport is not a document to prove citizenship within our country.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching NewsTrack with me, Maria Shaquille.
00:03What makes Indian an Indian?
00:05That's the question on everyone's mind right now.
00:08Why?
00:09Because the Minister of External Affairs has reignited a debate over citizenship
00:13after the government reiterated that a passport,
00:17while proof of nationality for travel purposes,
00:20is not conclusive proof of Indian citizenship.
00:24So if a passport isn't a proof of your citizenship, then what is?
00:28Aadhaar isn't.
00:30A voter ID isn't.
00:31And as India grapples with the citizenship conundrum,
00:34the question is, is it time for one nation, one citizenship ID?
00:41Before I bring in India's top two legal minds,
00:45former Solicitor General of India and Senior Advocate Harish Salve
00:49and Senior Advocate of the Supreme Court, Sidharth Lutra,
00:52here's a report.
00:57What makes an Indian citizen an Indian citizen?
01:02The clarification from the Ministry of External Affairs may have sparked a political storm,
01:07but the fact remains that that's neither a new rule nor a new policy.
01:12In fact, this has been the legal position for decades under the Passports Act and the Citizenship Act,
01:18and has also been repeatedly upheld by courts.
01:21Let's break it down.
01:22According to the Ministry of External Affairs,
01:25a passport is primarily a travel document.
01:28It establishes a nationality for international travel,
01:31but it is not conclusive proof of Indian citizenship.
01:34The government also says that while passports are ordinarily issued only to Indian citizens,
01:40the law contains limited provisions that allow passports to be issued to certain non-citizens in public interest.
01:47That, the centre says, is why a passport alone cannot legally settle the question of citizenship.
01:53And it's not just passports.
01:56The law also distinguishes between identity documents and citizenship documents.
02:00An Aadhaar card proves identity.
02:02A PAN card is meant for taxation.
02:05And a voter ID establishes that a person is enrolled as an elector.
02:10But according to the legal position,
02:12none of these documents, by themselves, conclusively prove Indian citizenship.
02:17So then what does?
02:19India currently has no single universal citizenship document.
02:23Instead, citizenship is established through a combination of official records,
02:28such as birth certificates and records,
02:31domicile certificates, PAN cards and voter IDs,
02:34school and college certificates carrying birth and parental details,
02:38government service records,
02:39and citizenship registration certificates issued by the Home Ministry,
02:43which can also be relied upon.
02:45Courts and tribunals may examine other official records as well,
02:48including bank, post office, and LIC documents
02:52showing residents in India,
02:54citizenship registration certificates and other documents
02:56accepted by courts and tribunals.
03:00In short, under the Citizenship Act of 1955,
03:03citizenship is determined by the totality of documents
03:06and not by one document alone.
03:08But then should that be the case?
03:10Should it be a simpler case of one country,
03:12one citizenship document, whatever it is?
03:16As of now, India's citizenship is decided not just by a combination of documents,
03:21but a combination of rules.
03:23If you were born in India before July 1st, 1987,
03:26birth in India is generally sufficient.
03:28But if you were born after July 1st, 1987,
03:31at least one parent must have been an Indian citizen.
03:34And for those born after December 3rd, 2004,
03:37the law is stricter.
03:39However, both parents must be Indian citizens
03:41or one parent must be an Indian citizen
03:43while the other is not an illegal immigrant.
03:47So the answer to who exactly is an Indian citizen is complex
03:50and not decided by just one document such as the passport.
03:54Should India look at perhaps simplifying the citizenship question
03:57to a master document
03:59or keep the answer as composite and pluralistic
04:02as the very soul of India itself?
04:06Bureau Report, India Today.
04:10Joining me first on the show is Harish Salve,
04:12former Solicitor General of India and Senior Advocate.
04:16Mr. Salve, let's start with the basic question
04:18every Indian is asking today.
04:20If I am an Indian citizen
04:22and I hold a valid Indian passport
04:25issued by the government of India
04:27after multiple scrutiny,
04:30why is that not enough to prove my citizenship?
04:36You know, this whole discussion
04:38obviously tells me all other problems
04:42of seriousness in India are behind us.
04:45Farmers is open.
04:46So let's make a fuss about something in Occhios
04:48with the Ministry of External Affairs has said.
04:50A passport
04:54is not a document
04:56to prove citizenship within your country.
05:00Legally.
05:01A passport is an international convention.
05:04If I am an Indian passport holder
05:06and I come to the United Kingdom
05:08or I go to France
05:10and I say I am an Indian citizen,
05:12I show them my passport,
05:14they can't say,
05:14how did you get an Indian passport?
05:16That passport
05:18is conclusive proof
05:19of my Indian citizenship
05:21outside India.
05:22How do I prove my citizenship in India
05:25is answered by
05:26for what purpose
05:27do I need to prove my citizenship in India?
05:30The purpose,
05:32the regulation
05:33which govern the purpose
05:34will tell you
05:35what documents they accept.
05:37So if, for example,
05:39for an MP or an MLA's election,
05:41the election commission
05:43makes rules.
05:44If that rule says
05:46bring your driving license
05:48for proof of address,
05:50does your driving license
05:52become proof of address?
05:53No.
05:53Your driving license
05:54is a license
05:55for allowing you
05:57to drive a vehicle.
05:58But it serves
05:59as a proof of address.
06:01So a passport
06:02is a document
06:03which may become
06:05a proof of your citizenship.
06:06Some people may accept it.
06:08Some people may say
06:09I need something more.
06:10It all depends on the context.
06:11You can't decontextualize.
06:14See,
06:14the Passport Act
06:15doesn't say
06:16for all purposes
06:17the passport
06:18shall be deemed
06:18to be proof of citizenship.
06:20We need a law like that.
06:23But then the moment
06:24we talk a law about that,
06:25everybody gets all
06:27flustered about
06:28the National Citizenship Register.
06:30Yes.
06:30So that's the problem.
06:32Okay,
06:33Mr. Salve,
06:33you know,
06:34we now have
06:34the Citizenship Act,
06:36the Passports Act,
06:37as you were speaking about,
06:38and exercises
06:40like the special intensive
06:41revision of electoral rolls
06:43operating simultaneously.
06:44Are these legal frameworks
06:47speaking to each other
06:48or are we creating
06:49the possibility
06:50of different standards
06:52being applied
06:52to the same citizen?
06:56See,
06:57it's not different standards.
06:58That's what I'm trying
06:59to tell you.
06:59The Citizenship Act
07:00tells you on when
07:03you can claim
07:04to be a citizen of India
07:05by birth,
07:06naturalization,
07:07etc., etc.
07:09Okay?
07:10The conditions
07:11and when you can,
07:12how you lose
07:13your citizenship.
07:15and those are the things
07:17which the Citizenship Act
07:20addresses.
07:21The Passport Act
07:23was not even there
07:24until 67.
07:27The Passport Act
07:29came,
07:29we used to issue,
07:30it's not that we did not
07:31issue passports
07:32before 67,
07:33but the Passports Act
07:34came in 67.
07:36It's the famous
07:36Satwan Singh Sani judgment.
07:38That's right.
07:38When the Supreme Court
07:39said the right
07:40to travel abroad
07:41is a part of your
07:42civil liberties
07:43and therefore
07:44if you need a document
07:45to travel abroad,
07:47the government of India
07:48should give it to you.
07:49That's what
07:49Manika Gandhi's judgment
07:50also said.
07:51So it is the right
07:53to travel abroad.
07:55The Passport
07:55is linked to that.
07:57All that the
07:58Ministry of External Affairs
07:59says is your passport
08:00is not for all purposes
08:02proof of Indian citizenship.
08:04But that doesn't mean
08:05that if tomorrow,
08:06if tomorrow
08:07your news channel
08:08says we will apply,
08:09we will employ
08:10only Indian citizens
08:11and say to prove
08:12your citizenship,
08:13bring your birth certificate
08:14or your passport
08:15and you produce it,
08:16enter the matter.
08:17Okay.
08:17Ministry of External Affairs
08:19is not telling
08:20different authorities
08:21on what they should
08:22accept as proof of citizenship.
08:24You know, Mr. Shravei,
08:26the government says
08:27that a passport
08:27is merely a travel document
08:29as you said
08:30with regards to
08:31what the Ministry of External Affairs
08:32has been saying.
08:34A passport is merely
08:36a travel document.
08:37So it's not
08:38a conclusive proof
08:39of citizenship.
08:40Yet,
08:41under the Passports Act,
08:42it is the state
08:44that issues
08:44that passport
08:45after a verification process.
08:47Are we drawing
08:48a legal distinction then
08:50that makes sense
08:51in law
08:52but leaves
08:53ordinary citizens
08:55confused
08:55and as you rightly said,
08:57perhaps a storm
08:58in a teacup?
09:02See,
09:03that's what I'm telling you.
09:04Obviously,
09:05other things are going well
09:06that somebody picks up
09:07on an innocuous statement
09:08in a MEE
09:09circular
09:09and makes
09:11much about it.
09:12the passport
09:15is proof
09:17or is not proof
09:18depending on
09:19what's the person
09:20who wants
09:21the proof
09:22is saying.
09:23If I say
09:24I want proof
09:25of your
09:27I think
09:28about
09:28two, three hundred million
09:29out of our
09:291.4 billion
09:30have passports
09:31even if that comes.
09:33So I think
09:3460% of 70%
09:35of Indian population
09:36doesn't even have passports.
09:38So
09:39it's not that
09:40a passport
09:40is a must
09:41for proof
09:41of citizenship.
09:42Now,
09:43this context
09:44we have to
09:45let's talk about
09:45the elephant in the room.
09:46All this has happened
09:47because of the SIR, right?
09:48That's right.
09:49Now,
09:49if the SIR says
09:51I will want
09:52five separate documents
09:53including passport
09:54because they also
09:55want to test
09:56the waters
09:56on did you get
09:57your passport
09:57on correct representations.
10:00See,
10:00if I've got a passport
10:01from India
10:02and I land in the UK
10:03they can't say
10:04how did you get it.
10:05France can't say
10:06how did you get it.
10:06But India can definitely say
10:08we have some complaints.
10:09How did you get your passport?
10:10We want to see
10:11your original birth certificate.
10:13Correct?
10:14The authority
10:15who issued the passport
10:16can always revoke it
10:17if you wrongly got it.
10:18It's in that context
10:20they are saying
10:21a passport
10:22is not meant
10:23to be a proof
10:24of residencehip.
10:25It is a proof
10:26of
10:28for traveling overseas.
10:30A driving license
10:31is not meant
10:32to be a proof
10:33of your residential address.
10:34It is meant
10:35to permit you
10:36to drive a car.
10:37But a lot of people
10:37say we will go
10:38by the address
10:39in your driving license.
10:40Okay?
10:41A ration card
10:42is meant
10:43to allow you
10:44to obtain
10:46rations.
10:47Correct?
10:48It's not a proof
10:49of residence.
10:50But many people
10:51say bring your ration card
10:52we will assume
10:53that the ration card
10:54is the correct address.
10:54So we are confusing
10:56the purpose
10:57of a document
10:58and what it may
10:59be used for.
11:00I'm going to
11:01break it down further
11:02and ask you
11:03another question
11:03which is now
11:05erupting
11:06because of
11:07this entire debate.
11:08If tomorrow
11:09someone's citizenship
11:10is questioned
11:11despite holding
11:12a valid passport
11:13where does
11:14the burden
11:15of proof
11:15lie then?
11:16On the citizen
11:17or on the state
11:19that issued
11:19the passport
11:20in the first place?
11:22Yes.
11:25See let me tell you
11:27today suppose
11:30Andhra government
11:30I'm naming any government
11:32I have nothing
11:33for them
11:33or the Orasa government
11:36or any government
11:37says
11:37I'm making the scheme
11:39that poor Indian citizens
11:41will get
11:43free gas.
11:45Prove to me
11:45that you're an Indian citizen
11:47and somebody
11:48lines up with a passport
11:48and says
11:49here I am
11:50I have proved it.
11:51No, no
11:51we reject your passport.
11:53A court may well
11:54tell them
11:54that you must have
11:55good reason
11:55to reject the passport.
11:58Why are you rejecting
11:59the passport?
12:00It's perfectly good proof.
12:02So that would be
12:03an arbitrary thing
12:04to reject
12:04such a strong proof
12:06of citizenship.
12:09The real problem
12:10is something else.
12:11We need a document
12:12like Europe
12:13has the ID card.
12:15Yes.
12:15We need a document
12:16for that.
12:17And then the moment
12:17you start talking
12:18about that
12:19and everybody's
12:20blood pressure
12:21goes up
12:21because of all
12:22the narrative
12:23we have around
12:23the National Register
12:24of Citizens.
12:25But wasn't
12:26Aadhaar supposed
12:27to be doing
12:27that job?
12:28You know,
12:29one document
12:29as you're talking
12:30about.
12:30This is a big
12:31talking point
12:32in the country
12:32today.
12:33That's why
12:33we are talking,
12:34sir.
12:35When Aadhaar was
12:37issued,
12:37they said,
12:38we will not
12:38go behind
12:39verifying
12:40your citizenship.
12:42We will go
12:43by existing
12:44records.
12:45The national,
12:46we have a
12:47migration problem.
12:48All over the world,
12:49countries are now
12:50today very exercised
12:52about the migration
12:53problem.
12:53We have a problem
12:54with our neighbors
12:55on the east
12:56about migration.
12:57migration.
12:58So,
12:59if
13:01national identity
13:02register is to be
13:03made,
13:04and you can take
13:04it from me,
13:0599% of Indians
13:06will have no issue,
13:07their names will be
13:08on the register.
13:09Trouble comes in
13:10these certain
13:11border areas where
13:12you have these
13:12kind of problems
13:13like we had in
13:15Bengal.
13:15So,
13:16like the election
13:16commission said,
13:17when I'm doing a
13:18special intensive
13:19review,
13:20I need the
13:21following documents.
13:23You can challenge
13:24it,
13:24saying,
13:24when I have one,
13:25why do you need
13:25the other,
13:26the Supreme Court
13:26examined and said,
13:28okay,
13:29if they produce
13:29one,
13:29two,
13:30three,
13:30it's good enough.
13:31So,
13:31how I'm asked
13:33to prove my
13:33citizenship,
13:34if somebody puts
13:35unreasonable
13:36conditions,
13:37you can challenge
13:38that condition,
13:38saying,
13:39when I have a
13:39passport,
13:40why do you ask
13:41for more?
13:42It's very different
13:43from saying that
13:43a passport is a
13:44document to prove
13:45citizenship.
13:46Okay.
13:46That brings me
13:47to my last
13:48question on the
13:49show,
13:49Mr. Salve.
13:50Looking beyond
13:51the immediate
13:52controversy,
13:53does India need
13:54a clear
13:55legal framework
13:56on what
13:57conclusively
13:58establishes
13:58citizenship?
14:02But that's
14:02a debate to be
14:03had.
14:04That's a debate
14:05to be had.
14:05Should we have
14:06a national
14:06register of
14:07citizenship,
14:08like in Europe,
14:09then we issue
14:09an ID card.
14:10And that unless
14:11the ID card is
14:12revoked for all
14:13purposes,
14:14that ID card
14:14is valid.
14:15Should we have,
14:16but that will
14:16have to be by
14:17a log,
14:18whether by
14:18amending the
14:19Citizenship Act
14:20or by amending
14:20some other law,
14:22that's a matter
14:23of detail.
14:23But you
14:24need,
14:25and once that
14:26is done,
14:26you have a
14:27national register
14:27of citizens.
14:30You want to
14:32escalate the
14:32Aadhaar card to
14:33that,
14:33you can change
14:33the Aadhaar Act
14:34and say,
14:35and it shall
14:35also be proof
14:36of citizenship.
14:37But then you
14:38may want to
14:38just make sure
14:39that any
14:40wrongly obtained
14:41cards are
14:41eliminated.
14:42So this is a
14:43debate to me.
14:45At the moment
14:45as we start
14:46talking about it,
14:47then immediately
14:47you will have
14:48a bigger
14:49conflagration
14:49of, oh,
14:50this government
14:51wants to throw
14:52out people
14:52of a community,
14:53et cetera,
14:53et cetera.
14:54Mr. Harish Salvi,
14:55always a pleasure
14:56speaking to you,
14:57sir.
14:57Thank you so
14:58much for joining
14:59us and explaining
15:00this entire
15:01conundrum around
15:02citizenship.
15:03Joining me now
15:04on the show
15:05is Siddharth Luthra,
15:07Senior Advocate
15:08of the Supreme
15:09Court of India.
15:10Mr. Luthra,
15:10I appreciate your
15:11time.
15:11Let me begin
15:12with a question
15:13that's troubling
15:13many viewers.
15:15If I have a
15:16valid Indian
15:16passport issued
15:17by the Government
15:17of India,
15:18why is that
15:20still not sufficient
15:21to establish
15:22that I'm
15:23an Indian
15:23citizen?
15:25It's a very
15:26simple thing.
15:28Citizenship
15:28and a passport
15:29are governed
15:30by two different
15:30legislations.
15:32So, a passport
15:33can be issued
15:34to a non-citizen
15:34also.
15:35There are
15:36different categories
15:36of passports.
15:38A passport
15:38may be issued
15:39to a citizen,
15:41certain categories
15:42of persons
15:43and non-citizens.
15:44So, for example,
15:45let's say a person
15:46comes to India
15:46as a refugee,
15:47you can get
15:48a passport.
15:50It does not
15:51mean that
15:52that implies
15:52citizenship.
15:53Citizenship is
15:54governed by
15:54a law called
15:55the Citizenship
15:56Act and by
15:57the Indian
15:57Constitution.
15:58Where it
15:58lays down,
15:59there are
16:01four categories.
16:02One is
16:02by naturalization.
16:04That is,
16:04I'm a foreign
16:05national.
16:06Let's say I'm
16:06a U.S.
16:07citizen.
16:07I come to
16:08Indiana,
16:09I apply for
16:09citizenship by
16:10qualifying the
16:11residential
16:12criteria.
16:13Secondly,
16:14by birth.
16:14If you're
16:14born between
16:151950 to
16:1687 and
16:1687,
16:17there are
16:17different
16:18categories
16:18in 2003
16:19onwards.
16:20The third
16:20is,
16:21by descent,
16:23my parents
16:23were citizens
16:24or one of
16:24my parents
16:25was a citizen
16:25and they've
16:27not migrated
16:27to, let's
16:28say,
16:28Pakistan or
16:29Bangladesh
16:29as the case
16:30may be.
16:30So,
16:31these are
16:31the categories
16:32of people
16:33who will be
16:33considered
16:34citizens
16:34under the
16:35Indian
16:35Constitution
16:36and under
16:37the Citizenship
16:38Act.
16:39However,
16:40the passport
16:40is a travel
16:42document
16:42issued to you
16:44to enable
16:45you to
16:45travel.
16:46It can
16:46be given
16:47to citizens
16:47and certain
16:49categories of
16:49non-citizens.
16:50So,
16:51the government's
16:51clarification may
16:52be legally
16:53correct,
16:53but Mr.
16:54Luthra,
16:54does it
16:55change the
16:56relationship
16:56between the
16:57citizen and
16:57the state?
16:59Can the
17:00state issue
17:01a passport
17:01after verification
17:02and later
17:03say that
17:03document is
17:04not conclusive
17:05proof of
17:05citizenship?
17:08The point
17:09is,
17:09even now,
17:11irrespective of
17:11the clarification,
17:13a passport
17:14can be a
17:15proof of
17:15citizenship
17:16if you are
17:17a citizen.
17:17So,
17:18what is
17:18important is
17:19inherently you
17:19have to be
17:20a citizen,
17:20not just a
17:21holder of a
17:22passport.
17:22If you are
17:23a citizen
17:23and you have
17:24a passport,
17:25the passport
17:25is indicative
17:26that you are
17:27a citizen
17:27holding an
17:27Indian
17:28passport.
17:29But the
17:30converse may
17:31not necessarily
17:31be true.
17:32Holding a
17:32passport does
17:32not necessarily
17:33imply that you
17:33fulfill all the
17:34categories of
17:35citizenship.
17:36And this is,
17:36it's really an
17:37identity paper.
17:39We are
17:40looking at
17:40multiple
17:41identification
17:42cards.
17:42Aadhaar card,
17:43voter ID card,
17:45you know,
17:45ration card.
17:46Is there a
17:47danger that
17:49different
17:49authorities could
17:50end up applying
17:51different tests
17:52for citizenship?
17:53If that
17:54happens,
17:55then who
17:55ultimately protects
17:56the citizen?
17:57The executive
17:58or the
17:58courts?
18:00The
18:01citizenship
18:03is governed
18:05purely by the
18:06constitution of the
18:06citizenship act.
18:08If you
18:08fulfill the
18:09criteria under
18:10that,
18:10your citizenship
18:11cannot be
18:12doubted.
18:13However,
18:15the identity
18:16papers are one
18:17means of
18:18establishing your
18:19identity and
18:20your linkage with
18:21the Indian
18:21nation.
18:22But eventually
18:24all of them
18:25have to
18:26fulfill the
18:27criteria under
18:28the citizenship
18:28act and the
18:29constitution.
18:30If you
18:30fulfill those
18:31criteria,
18:32you are safe.
18:32But you
18:33can't just say
18:34I have a
18:34ration card,
18:35therefore treat
18:35me as a
18:36citizen.
18:36I have an
18:37Aadhaar card.
18:38Remember,
18:38Aadhaar is an
18:39identity card.
18:40If you look at
18:41the concept of
18:42Aadhaar,
18:42what is the
18:43idea?
18:43The idea was
18:44that let us
18:45fix the
18:45identity of
18:46Siddharth Luthra
18:47and Maria
18:47Shaquille.
18:48Tomorrow,
18:49let us say
18:50you gave
18:50your name
18:51as,
18:52or I gave
18:53my name
18:53not as
18:53Siddharth Luthra
18:54but as
18:54James Luthra.
18:55I would get
18:56stuck with the
18:56identity of
18:57James Luthra
18:57with those
18:58biometrics.
18:58I would never
18:59be able to
18:59revert back to
19:00Siddharth Luthra.
19:01So the
19:01point is this,
19:02Maria,
19:03there are
19:04two sets
19:05of parameters,
19:07two sets
19:07of legislations
19:08and by
19:09conflating the
19:10two,
19:11we as
19:11citizens,
19:12and this is
19:13the problem
19:13with multiple
19:14identifications,
19:15ideally what
19:16should happen
19:16was your
19:17Aadhaar should
19:18be linked
19:18to your
19:19passport and
19:21should also
19:21be linked
19:22to your
19:23citizenship and
19:24for non-citizens
19:25also and it
19:27should be easy
19:27for any
19:28authority to
19:29check based
19:29on one
19:30biometric
19:31check whether
19:32you are an
19:32Aadhaar holding
19:33citizen or
19:34Aadhaar holding
19:34non-citizen.
19:36Because Aadhaar
19:37can also be
19:38issued to
19:38people who
19:38are resident
19:39in India but
19:39non-nestreet
19:40citizens.
19:40So that's
19:41the whole
19:42catch and
19:43that is the
19:44clarification of
19:45the government
19:46is only a
19:49means to
19:50show that for
19:50the purpose
19:51of SIR we
19:53will not
19:53consider passport
19:54as conclusive
19:55proof of
19:55citizenship.
19:56So I don't
19:58think the
19:58government has
19:58thrown a
19:59spanner in
19:59the works but
19:59they have
20:00really brought
20:00out a
20:01clarification
20:01which is
20:02going to
20:03create a
20:03debate because
20:04a lot of
20:04us as you
20:04rightly noted
20:05are people
20:06who have
20:06said okay I
20:07have a
20:07passport that's
20:08good enough
20:08for me and
20:10that's the
20:10way it is.
20:12Okay so that
20:12brings me to
20:14my last question
20:15to you Mr.
20:16Lutra.
20:17Has this
20:17debate then
20:18exposed a
20:19larger gap in
20:20India's legal
20:21architecture?
20:22Is it time
20:23then for
20:24parliament or
20:25the supreme
20:25court to
20:25clearly define
20:27what constitutes
20:28conclusive proof
20:30of citizenship
20:30so that this
20:31question doesn't
20:32arise every few
20:33years?
20:35I think you're
20:36absolutely right.
20:37What we need to
20:38do is we need a
20:40comprehensive
20:41interpretation
20:43legislatively or
20:44judicially of the
20:45criteria that
20:48allows you to
20:49claim citizenship
20:51under the
20:51Citizenship Act
20:52and what are the
20:53documents necessary
20:54because we live
20:55in a world in
20:55era of digital
20:56documents.
20:58So that needs
20:59to be put in
21:00place so that
21:01tomorrow I am
21:03sure that the
21:06line is not
21:07going to change
21:07each time I
21:08reach a certain
21:09line.
21:09The finish line
21:11can't keep moving
21:12and it can't be a
21:13moving target.
21:14That is the
21:14challenge for a
21:15citizen and that
21:16is very important.
21:17If you see the
21:18process that happened
21:19in West
21:19Bengal also, a
21:21lot of people who
21:21had identity papers
21:22are still struggling
21:24to prove that
21:24they are, you
21:25know, residents
21:26under the SIR
21:28categorization.
21:29Therefore, it is
21:30important for us
21:32to have consistency
21:33across legislations
21:36and perhaps the
21:37Passports Act may
21:38need to be tweaked
21:39a little more and
21:40the Citizenship
21:41Act need to be
21:43more clearly
21:44defined so that
21:46all of us, you
21:47and I, feel a
21:49sense of comfort
21:50when we are
21:50sleeping at home,
21:51not that tomorrow
21:52somebody will
21:52say, who are you?
21:54Okay, so let me
21:54ask you one more
21:55question then.
21:56Citizenship and
21:57Passport and
21:58multiple such
21:58Acts, we are
22:00looking at, of
22:00course, this is
22:01coming in the
22:01background of the
22:03SIR exercise which
22:04has taken place in
22:05multiple states as a
22:05pan-India exercise.
22:07So, Mr. Lutra,
22:08who is an Indian
22:09citizen?
22:10If I have another
22:11hard card, that's the
22:13proof of precedence.
22:14If you are an Indian
22:14citizen, you can
22:15possess a passport but
22:16possessing a passport
22:17does not necessarily
22:18imply you are an
22:19Indian citizen.
22:20If you look at the
22:21schedule to the
22:22Passports Act, the
22:23rules under the
22:23Passports Act, it
22:24makes it very clear
22:25that passports are
22:26identity documents to
22:27enable you to
22:28travel.
22:30That's it.
22:31And that is a
22:32distinction we must
22:33understand.
22:34And it is important
22:35as I completely
22:37understand your
22:37point of view,
22:40understanding of the
22:41law is something
22:42which needs to be
22:46elaborated by
22:46governments of the
22:47day, any
22:48government.
22:48They must give
22:50certainty to us for
22:52us to know who
22:53are we after all.
22:55All right,
22:56Siddharth Lutra,
22:57Senior Advocate of
22:58the Supreme Court.
22:59Pleasure having you
22:59on my show, sir.
23:00Thank you for your
23:01time.
23:02So, what began as a
23:03legal clarification has
23:04now snowballed into a
23:06political slugfest.
23:07The opposition has
23:08linked the Passport
23:09Rao to a possible
23:11backdoor NRC, while
23:13the BJP accuses its
23:15rivals of spreading
23:17misinformation.
23:18I'm leaving you with
23:18this report.
23:19Thanks so much for
23:20watching.
23:28For millions of
23:30Indians, a passport
23:31is far more than a
23:32document for
23:33international travel.
23:35It is a badge of
23:36identity, a symbol of
23:38belonging.
23:40But one clarification
23:41from the Ministry of
23:42External Affairs has
23:44now sparked a
23:44political storm.
23:45The ME has
23:47reiterated that while
23:48passports are issued
23:49only to Indian
23:50citizens, a passport
23:52by itself is not
23:54conclusive proof of
23:56citizenship.
23:57The Ministry of
23:58External Affairs has
23:59clarified that a
24:00passport alone cannot be
24:01considered as the
24:02proof of Indian
24:04citizenship, and this
24:05comment has ignited a
24:07new debate.
24:08The Ministry of
24:09External Affairs
24:10answering a
24:10contextual question made
24:12it clear that a
24:13passport cannot be
24:14used as the proof of
24:15Indian citizenship
24:16alone.
24:17There is a
24:17provision, there are
24:18set of laws and
24:19documents that are
24:20needed to procure your
24:22Indian citizenship
24:23proof.
24:24But a passport alone
24:26cannot be considered as
24:27your citizenship or
24:29your proof to be an
24:30Indian.
24:32The clarification isn't
24:34new in law, but it
24:35has reignited an old
24:37political debate.
24:38The opposition has
24:39ceased on the
24:40statement, questioning
24:41how a document issued
24:43after extensive police
24:44verification can still
24:46not establish
24:47citizenship.
24:48There is a
25:30passport act section 6 subsection 2 subsection
25:34यह यह पड़ेंगे तो वह कह रहा है कि उसको passport नहीं दिया जाएगा जो भारत का नागरिक नहीं है
25:39फिर क्या मतलब इसका और passport क्या टू स्टेप्स वरिफिकेशन है उसमें बहुत बड़ा पॉलिस का वरिफिकेशन होता है उसके
25:47बाद ही तो दिया जाता है बड़ बर्च से�
26:02इसमत के पास BJP का है ममशियो काड़ोगा उसी को मानेंगे
26:06The BJP has hit back, accusing the opposition of twisting a long-standing legal position for political mileage
26:13The party says no new policy has been announced and mocked the opposition as the कागस नहीं दिखाएंगे ब्रिगेट
26:22What began as a legal clarification has once again opened a political battle over one of the most fundamental questions
26:30in a democracy
26:31What finally proves that you are an Indian citizen?
26:35With Shivani Sharma, Bureau Report, India Today
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