- 2 days ago
Debating which of the three Heat titles is the most meaningful title. Crowder argues LeBron’s first ring should be at the top of the list.
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00:00Solana, I have the right answer.
00:02I've jotted this down.
00:03I did deep research on this
00:05and also what my recollection was at the time.
00:08The Heat have won three championships
00:09where they had that great comeback up against the Mavericks.
00:13Then they beat OKC for LeBron James' first title.
00:16And then they had that epic series up against the Spurs
00:19where one year they won it and then they lost it.
00:21And then we know that after that,
00:24we did see the big three as we knew it break up
00:27when LeBron lost to the Spurs.
00:29Out of the three championship victories,
00:31how do you rank them in terms of importance to you?
00:35One, two, and three.
00:36Oof.
00:38Wow.
00:39That's tough, Kelby.
00:40I have the right answer, by the way.
00:41You have the right answer.
00:43I have the right answer.
00:44I don't think it's debatable.
00:4706, to me, will always be one.
00:50That's correct.
00:51That has to be one.
00:52Will always be one.
00:54I'll tell you why really quickly.
00:56Dwayne Wade is my favorite athlete of all time.
00:59And in year three, what we're watching Victor Wembanyama do in year three,
01:05kind of usurp a potential dynasty
01:08and kind of change the course of Oklahoma City, maybe.
01:11And now go to that stage, a stage a lot of people,
01:14including myself, didn't think he was necessarily ready for.
01:17Or it should be lost on the NBA world that Dwayne Wade in year three took it to the Dallas
01:24Mavericks
01:24and led the Miami Heat to go win a title.
01:26I think that's an important part of history.
01:28But yeah, I would put 06 at one for sure.
01:32Well, 06 has to be one because he's not the best player in Heat history,
01:36but he's the most important player in Heat history.
01:38And that's Wade's title without LeBron, without Bosh,
01:43and being down 2-0 on the verge of being down 3-0
01:46and coming on back and winning that series, enormous.
01:50And adding Shaq.
01:51And adding Shaq where you knew that was going to put you over the edge
01:54and everybody was questioning Shaq and then he comes back and they win it.
01:57And Gelb, you know, a part that gets lost here when we talk about Pat Riley,
02:02I know Heat fans right now are a little just down on Pat
02:05because of the inactivity over the past couple seasons.
02:10But if you remember, Pat Riley hadn't won after leaving New York in Miami.
02:16He hadn't.
02:17And, you know, he takes Stan Van Gundy off the sideline.
02:22He takes over that team.
02:24And when we think back to that 06 team,
02:27we think back to look at the moves the godfather made.
02:31But, man, if the Heat don't win the title that year,
02:34maybe Pat Riley never wins another ring as the executive.
02:38Maybe Pat Riley never wins another ring as the president.
02:41And he doesn't have this aura and his legacy, his resume,
02:46it's just different is all I'm saying.
02:47I'm not taking away from Pat.
02:49I just think it's different.
02:50That championship meant as much to Pat Riley
02:54as it did to the Miami Heat organization.
02:58Okay.
02:58So that's one.
02:59That's the right answer.
03:00How do you do two and three?
03:01Because I don't even think this is debatable in my opinion.
03:04I know what you're going to do.
03:05You're going to go 2013 as number two
03:08because of the shot Ray Allen hit,
03:11but also the fact that LeBron James,
03:13if he came to Miami,
03:15doesn't win that ring and went one for four,
03:18then nobody thinks of that as a dynasty.
03:21And they almost probably talk about that
03:24as a failed four-year experiment for LeBron James
03:27where he only won one,
03:29which is patently absurd.
03:30But I think that's where you're going with this.
03:34And that's probably the right answer
03:35because to go back-to-back,
03:37it defined LeBron's legacy.
03:39That's probably how I would rank them as 0-6, 13, and 12.
03:45But, bro, LeBron finally winning a ring
03:48and the Heat shaking off the demons of the previous year
03:52and the fact that they beat Kevin Durant
03:55and the fact that it took LeBron's 45-point game six
04:01on the road down 3-2 in Boston
04:03in the Eastern Conference Finals
04:04to get back to the NBA Finals
04:06doesn't get talked about enough either.
04:09Like, LeBron finally hoisting that ring
04:11was monumental, man.
04:13It really was.
04:14So, it is.
04:15You're right on the order.
04:17It was Mavs one,
04:18it was the Spurs championship two,
04:20and then it was the Thunder three.
04:21It was the first title for LeBron,
04:24the third one, so I get your point,
04:25and also the run in it.
04:27But Durant, Harden, and Westbrook
04:29were not the Durant, Harden, and Westbrook
04:32that we know them today.
04:33And for the Spurs, you had Tim Duncan,
04:36you had Tony Parker, you had Manu Ginobili,
04:39even, right, the beginnings of Kawhi Leonard.
04:42That is just a more impressive championship.
04:45Fellas, fellas, just,
04:46and that's why I was letting y'all talk about this.
04:49And I did, you know, I did chime in on 0-6
04:52when you bring in Shaq,
04:53and the second best player
04:56to ever touch a basketball in the world
04:58is LeBron James, right?
05:02Yeah.
05:02I mean, I think he's the first, but...
05:04You think he's the first, so one or two.
05:06I don't want to do that conversation.
05:07We won't have that conversation.
05:09I'm going to need, like, a savaka.
05:11Gelby, the first or second best player
05:14in the history of basketball
05:17left his hometown
05:19to come to Miami
05:21and then put together a team
05:23with Wade and Bosh
05:25to go and win a championship.
05:28And that first, that second year in Miami
05:30with them, what was that, 12?
05:33That is the most important championship
05:36in Heat history.
05:370-6 was first.
05:38First is Q.
05:39Why, because it was his first?
05:40Because it was LeBron, Wade, and James
05:44coming together, taking pay cuts
05:46to come down here and win
05:47and then letting J.J. Borea
05:49choke his ass out in the finals
05:51the year before
05:52and people start questioning him
05:53and then the banana boat situation
05:55where those three and Chris Paul
05:58had to rub their nuts
05:59against each other's butt
06:00to figure out who's the leader
06:02of this team
06:03and then they go and win
06:05the championship, fellas.
06:07Channing.
06:07I don't know what y'all are talking about.
06:09The 12 championship
06:11is the most important championship
06:13in Heat history.
06:140-6 was great.
06:15I was down there.
06:16I got drafted in 0-5.
06:1712 is the most important one
06:19because of the pieces that were around.
06:22What happened?
06:24How it was manifested
06:26and how they had to go through turmoil
06:28to get to that point.
06:30Y'all are crazy.
06:31Okay, I got more on this.
06:33We got to take a break.
06:34I'll use an analogy on the other side
06:37that's just going to debunk
06:38your entire theory.
06:40So we'll do that on the other side.
06:42It's Hawk Crowder and Solana.
06:43Zach Gelbin for Hawk
06:44right here on 104.3 FM WQAM.
06:47Before the break,
06:49we were ranking
06:49the most important
06:51Heat championships
06:52one through three.
06:53And Solana,
06:54this is a rare time
06:55I'm going to say this,
06:55gave you the right answer
06:57of the championship
06:58up against the Mavs one,
07:00the championship
07:01up against the Spurs two,
07:02and then OKC three.
07:04Crowder then says,
07:06no, Gelb, Solana,
07:08you're two dumb white guys.
07:09You don't know
07:10what you're talking about.
07:11You're idiots,
07:12you're morons,
07:13you're dopes,
07:14you're a bunch of stu nods.
07:15He goes,
07:16because LeBron is the second
07:17best basketball player
07:18of all time.
07:19His first championship
07:21has to be the most important
07:23championship in the history
07:25of the Heat,
07:26which to me
07:27doesn't really make sense
07:28because then I could like,
07:30like when you go
07:31to a different team
07:32and you're not there
07:34the entire time,
07:36like Wade in the Heat history
07:37is more important
07:39than LeBron.
07:40But anyway,
07:40that's not my argument.
07:42Your argument, Crowder,
07:44was that just because
07:45it's his first,
07:46that means it's his best.
07:47No, it was his first.
07:50They put the team together.
07:52They amped it up, Gelby.
07:54Like when they came out,
07:56Chris Bosh came out of the floor
07:58screaming like a pterodactyl.
08:00All of that,
08:01that's supposed to be something.
08:03And then they go
08:04and get beat by the Mavs
08:06and then you start questioning it.
08:08Damn, you got LeBron.
08:10And then they go
08:11and they win in 12 with LeBron.
08:1412 is by far the Heat's best.
08:16The first doesn't have to be the best.
08:18It's the most,
08:20like we always play with this,
08:22you know, what does it mean?
08:23The most meaningful championship
08:25was 12 with the big three.
08:27That's the most meaningful championship
08:29for the Heat.
08:30I still think it's Wade,
08:31but your argument of
08:33because it's really LeBron's first,
08:35it was his best for the franchise.
08:38I'll put it to you in love terms here.
08:40I'm going to speak your language.
08:41Hugh Hefner and let's say
08:43Wilt Chamberlain
08:44could be two of the best lovers
08:47on the history of the planet.
08:49So let's go to Wilt
08:50because he's probably two
08:51and Hugh was probably one.
08:53Do you think the first sexual experience
08:56for Wilt Chamberlain
08:57was his best experience?
09:01No, it was probably quick.
09:03Exactly.
09:05LeBron's first one wasn't his best.
09:07But how, how,
09:09let me go to your analogy.
09:11How it was set up
09:12if we,
09:14if everybody flew to Hawaii
09:17to get this sweet at the Ritz.
09:20To see Wilt lose his virginity.
09:23To see Wilt lose his virginity.
09:26Okay.
09:27That makes sense.
09:28LeBron left
09:29and it's where he's coming from.
09:31Cleveland drafted him.
09:32He's a Cleveland guy.
09:33Went back to Cleveland.
09:34Won it with Kyrie and them.
09:35He decided to leave
09:37his hometown
09:39to come to Miami
09:40to team up with Wade.
09:42And now we know
09:43all the story behind it
09:44where Wade, him, and Bosh
09:45at the Olympics
09:46talked about this.
09:48Man, let's get this big three together
09:50and go get us a chip.
09:51And it means something.
09:53Then they end up getting beat
09:54by, well it was Dirk
09:55and JJ and them
09:57in Dallas the first year.
09:59Now they had to reset.
10:00They had to go on the Banana Boat crew.
10:02They had to talk about it.
10:03And then they had to reset.
10:04And Wade set Bron down
10:07and said,
10:08Bron, I already have a championship.
10:11Wade is a first ballot Hall of Famer.
10:14You are better than me.
10:16Go be the one.
10:18I'll be your two.
10:19And Bosh will sit in the corner
10:21and yell like a pterodactyl.
10:23And you just made my point.
10:24Because Wade is the most important player
10:28in the history
10:29of the Miami Heat organization.
10:31So how can his championship,
10:32his most meaningful
10:33was his first?
10:35How can't that be?
10:36To use your argument,
10:37it's Wade's first.
10:38Why is it that in this conversation,
10:40the most important heat championship,
10:42why it wasn't 06?
10:43Because you were blessed
10:44with the 12
10:45or the 11
10:46big three.
10:48And then they went
10:49and did it
10:50twice in a row.
10:52But the first one
10:53was special.
10:54Because
10:54this is supposed to work.
10:56and now it worked.
10:58In Crowder's defense,
10:59and I still think it's 06,
11:01but in Crowder's defense,
11:03you have to kind of
11:05position yourself
11:06back to 2011
11:09when LeBron,
11:10Wade,
11:10and Bosh
11:11step on that stage
11:12in 2010,
11:13really,
11:13after the decision.
11:14Not one,
11:15not two,
11:15not three.
11:16The magnitude
11:17of just pure
11:19hate
11:20that that decision
11:22caused around the country.
11:23So you have to
11:24remember that.
11:26And then,
11:27to Crowder's point,
11:28LeBron being able
11:30to finally win that ring,
11:32it was almost like
11:33a situation where
11:34LeBron
11:35shook off
11:36all the demons,
11:38all the hate
11:39from that decision.
11:40He was finally proven right,
11:42by the way,
11:42by going to Miami.
11:43After the
11:45tremendous
11:47step back
11:48of losing in the finals,
11:50which, by the way,
11:51it was his fault.
11:52Oh, he had that
11:53eight-point game.
11:53He was brutal.
11:54Oh, not even that.
11:55Like, what he averaged
11:56in the fourth quarters
11:56is genuinely embarrassing.
11:58And then he told us
11:59we all had miserable lives
12:00afterwards.
12:00Yeah, I saw that.
12:01And we have to all go back
12:02to living our miserable lives.
12:03It's funny.
12:04I saw that clip yesterday.
12:06It was going viral yesterday
12:07where they're like,
12:08LeBron lost the finals
12:09and told everybody
12:10they're poor.
12:11Yeah, I remember
12:13Sid freaking out.
12:14Sid Rosenberg
12:15on one of the 17 stations
12:16that he was on
12:16in this area
12:17freaking out at LeBron
12:18over that.
12:19Yeah, which is literally
12:20what he said.
12:20He's like, yeah,
12:21everybody has to go back
12:22to their lives
12:22and that was such
12:24a big deal
12:24when it happened.
12:25People were freaking out.
12:26And the other day,
12:27this is the greatest response
12:28I've ever seen
12:29to a player losing
12:30a championship.
12:31No, no, no.
12:31In the moment,
12:32people killed,
12:33crucified LeBron for that.
12:34They did.
12:34So I just think
12:35to Crowder's point,
12:37which title
12:38will end up
12:39meaning more
12:40to LeBron's legacy
12:42and overall,
12:43like the story
12:45of basketball,
12:45it's the second one
12:46because without that
12:47second championship,
12:48he doesn't get to...
12:49The three era.
12:50No, no, right.
12:50But I'm saying
12:51the second LeBron title
12:52in Miami
12:53in 2013
12:54because of the shot,
12:56which is arguably
12:56the greatest shot
12:57in NBA history,
12:58because of the fact
12:59that LeBron ends up
13:00getting two in Miami
13:01over four years,
13:02because of the fact
13:03that LeBron ends now
13:05with four rings
13:05or whatever,
13:06like that second one
13:07will be looked at,
13:08but to Crowder's point,
13:09at the time,
13:11the heat experiment,
13:13Pat Riley being
13:15the godfather
13:16of putting that team together,
13:18the idea of the super team,
13:20even though we know
13:20it's BS,
13:21there had been super teams
13:22in the past,
13:23like all that,
13:24it was so important
13:25to get that first ring
13:27in 2012.
13:28And what I will also say...
13:30Go ahead, Crowder.
13:31Quick, Gilby.
13:33to make LeBron,
13:35LeBron's legacy,
13:36but also that made Spoh.
13:39That team made Spoh.
13:41If Spoh didn't get
13:42the big three,
13:43you're not looking
13:43at Spoh the same.
13:44You're not looking
13:44at Pat Riley
13:45like the GM he is
13:46and the basketball operations,
13:48whatever.
13:49And also,
13:50Gil,
13:51this is what I do
13:51a lot on this show,
13:52and I know you listen.
13:54When you have a son
13:55and he has a son
13:58and you're talking
13:59to your grandchild,
14:00your grandson
14:01one day about basketball
14:03because all the
14:04Gales love basketball,
14:06are you bringing up
14:06the Shaq Wade championship
14:10to him when you're
14:11talking about it
14:11or are you bringing up
14:13the big three
14:132012 championship?
14:15I'm going to talk about
14:15there's this player
14:16named LeBron James.
14:17He was the second greatest
14:18basketball player
14:19of all time.
14:20His most important
14:21championship ever,
14:22you're not going to like
14:23this answer,
14:23Salon,
14:23I'll tell you right now,
14:24was when he came back
14:25from down 3-1
14:26and won a championship
14:28in Cleveland.
14:28Then I'm going to say
14:30his second most important
14:32championship ever
14:33was in Los Angeles
14:34because no one,
14:36no one thought
14:37he was winning a title there.
14:38They said movies
14:39over basketball.
14:40Then he went to Miami.
14:42He won two championships,
14:44also lost two,
14:45but he guaranteed
14:464,000 championships.
14:48So it's kind of
14:49a little disappointing
14:50if we're being real.
14:51And yeah,
14:52I'm still going to say
14:53the Spurs were three
14:54and then the Thunder
14:55championship was four.
14:56And if my son
14:57or my grandson
14:58ever said,
14:59but you know,
15:00dad or grandpa,
15:01why would you put
15:02the Spurs championship
15:04over OKC?
15:05Because the players
15:06on the Spurs were better
15:07and Uncle Channing
15:08is just a dope
15:09and he's always wrong.
15:10You know what?
15:10Your grandson's going to say
15:12Uncle Channing
15:13told me this.
15:14I can't wait.
15:16I can't wait for that dinner
15:17when I can tighten him up
15:19on the real situation.
15:20And then I'm going to say,
15:21well,
15:21what was in Uncle Channing's cup?
15:23He probably had a little
15:23special potion
15:24and it makes him say
15:25stupid erroneous things.
15:27It's Hockman,
15:27Crowder,
15:28and Solana.
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