00:00We literally have not gone to a single topic that I wanted to cover for headlines all show.
00:05But I want to go back to something, Hawk, because you had mentioned at Coach L,
00:10is LeBron on the Mount Rushmore of Lakers all time?
00:15And I think the best way to ask that question is,
00:19will LeBron get a statue outside the state?
00:23Well, that he will.
00:24You think so?
00:25Oh, yeah.
00:26I mean, a title, eight seasons and a title.
00:30For sure.
00:30I mean, there's no question.
00:32The question to me is, is the second greatest player in NBA history,
00:38the only one who's in the conversation with MJ,
00:42is he one of the four all-time great LA Lakers?
00:47No.
00:50It's so incongruous.
00:52It's not.
00:53It's not.
00:53Here's why.
00:54He's better.
00:55He's better.
00:56So he's the second or first-plus player.
00:59Think about this.
01:00Just think about this.
01:00He is the second or first.
01:02That's the argument.
01:03One or two, him and MJ, that ever touched a basketball in the history of the world.
01:08He's better at basketball than Kareem, than Magic, than all of those guys, right?
01:13Yes.
01:14So he should have a statue outside of whatever, crypto, whatever.
01:19But a statue is limitless.
01:20Mount Rushmore, four.
01:22He's, Hawk, if he's the second best in basketball, how can he not be the top four in L.A.?
01:29But because Mount Rushmore doesn't necessarily mean most talented,
01:33because we all often put Udonis Haslam on the Mount Rushmore of heat players.
01:38And so it's, who are the iconic L.A. Lakers?
01:43And I think there might be a shocking twist in the fact that a guy who's played there for
01:49eight straight seasons and won a title there might not be considered one of the four greatest
01:55Lakers of all time.
01:56He's not.
01:57He's not.
01:58Magic Kobe LeBron Kareem.
02:01Here's how you do this, though, because the same thing gets done with the Miami Heat.
02:07LeBron James is the greatest basketball player to have ever worn a Miami Heat jersey.
02:14Correct?
02:14Like, nobody would disagree with that.
02:16He is the greatest basketball player to play for the Heat organization.
02:19Is he the greatest Miami Heat player of all time?
02:24No.
02:25That's Dwayne Wade.
02:26Dwayne Wade.
02:27But again, I'm going, I'm going as far deep as four, though.
02:32Four.
02:32But, but, but, no, no, no.
02:34Even that question.
02:35Jerry West is the logo of the league, Crowder.
02:38But he's not, he's not better at basketball than.
02:41That's not the question.
02:42You're conflating it again, because I'm telling you, Udonis Haslam is not one of the four best
02:47Miami Heat basketball players of all time.
02:49So he's on a lot of people's Mount Rushmores.
02:51So most influential or loved?
02:53Most iconic, most iconic players for a franchise.
02:58And, and, and listen, listen to LeBron's eight seasons in LA.
03:02This is why I want to get back to it, Hawk.
03:04In 2019, his first year there, they missed the playoffs.
03:082020 was the bubble season.
03:09They win a title.
03:10In 2021, they got eliminated in the first round.
03:14In 2022, they missed the playoffs altogether.
03:17In 2023, swept in the conference finals.
03:22In 2024, they lost in the first round.
03:26Last year, 2025, eliminated in the first round.
03:30This year, swept in the second round.
03:33He had two conference finals appearances, got swept in one, won the other one.
03:38Obviously, they go on to win the NBA title, which we all know, asterisk next to that title,
03:43because Bam Adebayo and Goran Dragic got hurt.
03:46In eight seasons, won a title, but didn't have the impact that Magic Johnson had.
03:54Didn't have the impact that Kobe Bryant and Shaq had.
03:57Didn't have the impact.
03:59In fact, I'd go as far to say that a guy like Pau Gasol, I know you laughed at that
04:03earlier, Crowder.
04:04I'm not even joking.
04:05Pau Gasol, Solana.
04:07Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
04:09I mean, we're talking about all-time greats, but also guys who, during their Lakers era,
04:15went to multiple finals, won multiple championships.
04:17That's the thing.
04:19He has not had consistent winning.
04:22Right.
04:23With them.
04:23Has a championship, but in eight seasons has not had consistent, you know, deep success in the postseason.
04:31Yeah, yeah.
04:33No, I'm with you.
04:34Like, Magic's on there.
04:35What is he, five?
04:36Yeah.
04:37Three-time MVP or something, five championships, like that kind of stuff with the Lakers, with that team.
04:43Magic and Kobe, for sure.
04:44There's no argument.
04:46Then you get down to, remember, Coach L said Elgin Baylor.
04:49I mean, it's a little bit before our time, but Elgin Baylor is considered one of the greatest basketball players
04:54to ever wear a Lakers uni.
04:55Will Chamberlain?
04:57No.
04:58No, it's Kareem.
05:00Kareem.
05:00It's Kareem.
05:01And then it's either Shaq or Jerry West.
05:04That has to be the list.
05:06So, Kobe, Magic, Kareem, and Shaq or Jerry West.
05:12Yeah.
05:13Shaq, I don't know.
05:15Because Jerry West is more iconic than Shaquille O'Neal.
05:20He's on the logo, Crowder.
05:22He's the literal logo of the league.
05:24That's raggedy-ass logo.
05:26Stop pulling that up.
05:28I mean, but that's kind of, like, it's inarguable.
05:32They had nobody else to put on there.
05:34I mean, it's kind of inarguable.
05:36They had no one to put on the logo.
05:39They didn't have a three-point line.
05:40They were playing in peach baskets.
05:42They had nobody else to put on the logo.
05:44I mean, and neither did I.
05:47I didn't see him play.
05:48But you never saw Jerry West play, so you're dismissing him.
05:53His little picture's ugly.
05:54Let me see what Jerry West did.
05:57Okay.
05:58The start of it is the logo.
06:00The start of it is the logo.
06:03He's the logo.
06:03It's kind of a big deal.
06:05One championship, one NBA final.
06:08One championship, one NBA's final MVP.
06:13Well, that's all LeBron has with the Lakers.
06:16So, it's LeBron or Jerry West.
06:17So, let's say Shaq or LeBron.
06:19Why is it Jerry West?
06:20Because he's the logo?
06:21Because they had no other big dudes that could play on there?
06:23I'm just telling you.
06:25He literally started the Lakers becoming a preeminent franchise in the NBA.
06:33Like, he was the best player when the Lakers had their first title run and their first opportunity to go
06:40up against the Celtics and define a literal era.
06:43He personally, I put Shaq, he's got how many titles with L.A.?
06:47Three?
06:48Three.
06:49Yeah.
06:50I mean, for me, it would be Shaq because I never saw Jerry West play either.
06:54I'm just not going to dismiss him the way that you are.
06:57I just, Jerry West played through Jim Crow laws.
07:01Played in 1972.
07:02Played in 1962.
07:04In 1972.
07:051960.
07:07Yeah, but he won a championship with the Lakers in 72.
07:09Like, he was the start of, as Solana just said, their eras of greatness.
07:15They had to bring in the black guys.
07:17Well, I mean, that's fine.
07:19I'm just not going to dismiss Jerry West because he's one of the greatest basketball players to ever play in
07:23the NBA.
07:24He also would have had more rings if the Boston Celtics didn't have a super team at the time.
07:29They literally won, like, nine straight NBA titles or whatever it is.
07:34I mean, you're literally dismissing him because he's white.
07:37No, I can't say nothing about race.
07:39You literally just said they had to bring in black players to make him better.
07:43I just, how the league was set up for you to say, he's the logo.
07:49This is what's getting to me.
07:50He's the logo.
07:51He's the logo.
07:51They had to put something on that damn picture.
07:54They didn't have to make it after a person, though.
07:57They picked, well, they picked the best little bitty dude they could that dribbles well.
08:01Like, Jerry West wasn't garbage.
08:03I'm not saying he's trash.
08:04He's a Hall of Famer.
08:05He's famous.
08:06He's good at basketball.
08:06Well, for you to say he's better than Shaquille O'Neal, he's more iconic than Shaquille O'Neal, it's crazy.
08:12You don't live in L.A., though.
08:13He might be more iconic to Lakers fans than Shaquille.
08:17He's not to you.
08:18You never saw him play.
08:19He's not to me.
08:20I never saw him play.
08:21But it's hard for me to say exactly who Lakers fans find to be the most iconic when I don't
08:27really have a tie to Los Angeles.
08:29You're dismissing him.
08:31Again, you dismissed Elgin Baylor.
08:34Both of you did.
08:35You never saw Elgin Baylor play.
08:37I go to L.A. twice a month.
08:39I never talked about Jerry West with anybody at the bar.
08:41Well, I mean, you're sounding foolish here because he's really one of the most iconic Lakers of all time.
08:47By the way, I didn't dismiss Elgin Baylor, Hawk.
08:49I'm not dismissing him.
08:51I know Elgin Baylor's accolades because I looked him up for a Coach L debate once, but he never won
08:56a title.
08:57Right.
08:57That, to me, takes him out of the conversation for the second most titles of any team ever in the
09:05Lakers.
09:05If you didn't win a title, should you be in the conversation on the Mount Rushmore of players?
09:11No.
09:12You can't.
09:12Yeah.
09:12Again, I'm saying to you, I just don't know enough about Elgin Baylor because that's before my time, and I
09:18certainly wasn't a Lakers fan.
09:21They call him the rabbit.
09:23Elgin Baylor?
09:24Yeah.
09:25He's a rabbit.
09:27Hmm.
09:3027, 6, and 6.
09:33Who?
09:36The logo.
09:3927, 6, and 6?
09:40Are you saying that like that's bad?
09:44That's not great.
09:4720, average 27 points?
09:50Yeah, they had four people.
09:52That was a peach basket.
09:53Hey, all right.
09:54I don't know what's happening here with 1972 Jerry West.
09:58I mean, you're really like, you're just dismissing him because you've never been familiar with him.
10:04I'm going to watch some Jerry West tonight.
10:06Get back to y'all tomorrow.
10:08You should.
10:08I think you should.
10:12I hope you have a projector.
10:15It's not high definition for sure.
10:19All right.
10:20Los Madelins.
10:21Before Elgin Baylor, though, Elgin Baylor played in the 60s.
10:25Yeah.
10:28Yeah.
10:28Elgin Baylor, if I remember this correctly, he retired like midway through his final season with the Lakers, and they
10:35won a title that year.
10:37Oh, bad move from him.
10:38Yeah.
10:39Yeah.
10:40I have to double check that.
10:41But like, it was just...
10:42Did Elgin Baylor, is he the guy who went on to be the GM of the Clippers?
10:47No, that was Jerry West, but he was the executive.
10:49No, no, no.
10:50That wasn't Jerry West.
10:51Jerry West went on to be the GM of the Lakers and then the Grizzlies.
10:54No, Jerry West was in the front office for the Clippers.
11:00He was the executive.
11:01I thought Elgin Baylor went to work for Donald Sterling.
11:04Wasn't he in that miniseries that we watched, Jimmy?
11:08Oh, you're right.
11:09He was the L.A. Clippers vice president of basketball operations.
11:13Right.
11:14And he worked for Donald Sterling, and then finally he had just had enough.
11:18Man.
11:19Jerry West averaged 29 points in 153 playoff games.
11:27I'll check him out tonight.
11:29I mean, they don't make him the logo because he was Max Struis.
11:33I'm not telling you he would hold his own against LeBron, but I don't think they just chose their logo
11:39out of a hat.
11:40Listen, listen to this.
11:41Ready?
11:4236 and 6 and 153 playoff starts.
11:46That's nuts.
11:4714-time NBA All-Star.
11:49NBA All-Star game MVP.
11:5110-time All-NBA first team.
11:54Two-time All-NBA second team.
11:56Four-time NBA All-Defensive first team.
11:59Made the All-Defensive second team once.
12:01NBA scoring champion.
12:03NBA assist leader.
12:04He was obviously on the 75th anniversary top 75 players.
12:08His numbers retired by the Los Angeles Lakers.
12:12He was the NCAA Final Four most outstanding player in 1959.
12:16Crowder, you're probably right.
12:18My guess is no black players were playing in 1959.
12:22That's not a joke.
12:23I watch Glory Road.
12:24Oh, no, no, no.
12:25It's true.
12:26Yeah.
12:26And two-time consensus.
12:28That was a joke.
12:29Two-time consensus.
12:30First team All-American.
12:33He was also granted the Presidential Medal of Freedom.
12:35I don't know why that matters, but that's on the list here of things.
12:38You average 30 in the playoffs?
12:41You get a medal.
12:42All that being said, Shaq still goes in on the Mount Rushmore over him to me
12:47because Shaq's the most dominant big guy I ever saw.
12:57Another day when we have time, I'll make the argument for Pau Gasol.
13:02You love the Gasol brothers.
13:04I love the Gasols.
13:06You guys just don't put any respect on the Gasol brothers.
13:08I don't know why.
13:10They're the Gasol brothers.
13:14Answered your own question.
Comments