00:00Do you think that the Clarity and the Genius Act will be signed into law and will we see that
00:03soon?
00:04Yeah, so we saw Genius come into or get signed last year.
00:08So that's been a really good thing for the stablecoin industry.
00:10We've seen more consumer protection with the yield backing and the dollar to dollar requirements with the Genius Act.
00:19Clarity had a huge week two weeks ago, right?
00:22So we had the Senate Banking Committee pass it on a bipartisan basis, which is great.
00:27So now it goes to the Senate Agriculture Committee to combine the two versions of the bill.
00:31And, you know, this is one of the biggest moves we've seen for legislation in the U.S. for digital
00:36assets to date.
00:37So we're all super excited about it.
00:40And the momentum is building.
00:42If you look at the poly market and the cowshi odds, we're over 50 percent likely that this is going
00:47to pass, which is huge.
00:49And the sentiment from a timing perspective is there's a push to get it done before the interims.
00:53There's momentum.
00:54And if you take a step back and you think about everything that's going on right now in the world,
00:58the fact that the administration and D.C.
01:01is this focused on our asset space, our legislation, is huge.
01:05It means that it's very important.
01:07Again, it's bipartisan, which we haven't seen before.
01:09We had two Democrats vote for clarity to move forward.
01:11And we're all just very optimistic about it.
01:14Well, maybe they saw what happened in the midterm or not in the midterms, the 2024 election and the way
01:19that the crypto industry lobbied behind certain candidates and spent many, many, many millions of dollars.
01:25It was the largest single issue PAC donations that we had seen.
01:30It 100 percent drove the election results.
01:32But there's no question about it.
01:33So digital assets are here to stay.
01:36Blockchain is here to stay.
01:37And I think we're starting to see support on both sides of the aisle.
01:40Is that a good thing, though?
01:41And the reason big picture I ask is because it's like we hear about money in politics.
01:45And this is like, you know, this is sort of getting out of our our our lane here a little
01:49bit.
01:49But if it is if it was the single biggest issue, you look at the issues that are at least
01:54in terms of money, you look at the issues that voters care about.
01:57And it's like it's affordability.
01:59And, you know, it's it's a hard line to draw draw that that, you know, puts this and makes gas
02:04cheaper.
02:05Yeah, 100 percent.
02:06And, you know, there's a lot of controversy around it.
02:08One of the biggest issues that what you saw on the Senate floor when they were voting on clarity two
02:12weeks ago was ethics.
02:13It was, you know, KYC and AML.
02:16Are investors protected?
02:17Is DeFi really the right answer?
02:18So there's definitely some controversy around it.
02:21And to your point, Tim, I agree.
02:22Economics, affordability, the price of milk, super important.
02:26There was just a groundswell for the voting base in terms of crypto.
02:30And that just shows the generational shift that I think is happening right now.
02:34I want to ask about digital asset treasuries, because one could argue that Pantera is one of the most involved
02:39VCs in this space.
02:40What do you make of them?
02:41Is there room beyond the strategies for Bitcoin and Bitmine for Ether for the smaller guys or up and coming
02:48ones?
02:48So the digital asset treasury or the DAT trend was it was very popular.
02:53We co-sponsored one.
02:55We invested in several of them.
02:58I do think kind of where we're at now, the trend is has calmed down.
03:03And I think people are maybe starting to see the value prop outside of the really bigger ones.
03:07It's just not necessarily there.
03:09So my sense is if you got in at the right time, which I do feel like we Pantera did
03:14great, but I don't necessarily see this as a continuing trend because you can have access to these digital currencies
03:20directly.
03:21So then what is the opportunity right now from a venture capital perspective?
03:24If a little bit of the shine has come off of digital asset treasuries, where's the excitement?
03:30Tokenization.
03:31It's huge.
03:31Tokenization of real world assets.
03:33You know, we're starting to see what on does one of one of my favorite examples.
03:37U.S.
03:37Treasuries going on the blockchain is huge.
03:39I think you're going to start seeing real world asset tokenization of, you know, mortgages.
03:44Is it about more than just 24-7 trading?
03:46What is that about?
03:46Is it securitizing everything?
03:48I think it's securitizing everything.
03:49Well, 24-7 trading is really interesting to Pantera because as an RIA, now you have to ask yourself a
03:55question of, you know, we're outside of the stock market nine to window.
03:59I know.
03:59I'm getting notes over the weekend about people looking at hyperliquid and the way oil is trading on hyperliquid.
04:03Yeah.
04:03Like so now we have a fiduciary duty to our investors to like really think about should we be trading
04:0824-7?
04:08And like it's kind of shifted the way that RIAs should think about things when you're in the digital asset
04:12space.
04:13So I think it's really interesting.
04:14Is there an asset class that in your opinion shouldn't be tokenized or and I guess on the other end
04:20of the spectrum is the most tokenizable?
04:21I guess equities probably.
04:23I think money market funds.
04:24Equities, money market funds.
04:26I think those are really interesting.
04:28They're the first ones that are going to come on chain.
04:29In terms of what shouldn't be tokenized, I have a hard time coming up with an example because you have
04:34this transparency.
04:35You have this 24-7 accessibility.
04:37And I'm sure there are like smarter people than me that will come up with an example.
04:40But to me, the benefits of it just outweigh any negative that I can kind of think about in terms
04:46of why you wouldn't want it.
04:47I want to go back to your optimism over what's happening in Washington, specifically clarity.
04:52Why are we seeing the optimism play out in Bitcoin as an asset right now?
04:56I think because we're seeing like literally clarity.
04:59I think the traditional finance players who are maybe sitting on the sidelines right now are finally starting to see
05:04the progress in D.C.
05:06where they're going to be able to get comfortable in this asset class.
05:09And so there's a lot of capital sitting there waiting for it.
05:12I also want to ask about prediction markets because you also have insights in that.
05:15At one point do they become destabilizing?
05:17At what point does the con outweigh the pro?
05:20Prediction markets are fascinating and a very new thing.
05:23We just did one of our largest investments into Novig.
05:27I think they're super interesting but also very controversial from a compliance perspective.
05:35Like when I put on my CCO hat, I think about insider trading.
05:38And, you know, the great example of Brian Armstrong saw some bet on one of them of like,
05:43is he going to say Bitcoin at the end of the earnings call?
05:45And you're like, if you knew what his speech was, like, you could have really placed a bet.
05:49We're like, what's Bad Bunny's first song at Super Bowl going to be?
05:52Anyone who's like in that grass that was on the field.
05:55Like, how do you police that?
05:57So I think it's interesting.
05:58I think there's going to be fewer players than more at the end of the day.
06:02But I do think from a legal and compliance perspective, we really have to think hard about this.
06:06We'll see you next time.
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