00:00Would you agree with the statement that Charlie Kirk was a dangerous extremist?
00:11I can't answer the question that way.
00:14I can certainly say that statements that I am aware of that Mr. Kirk made
00:20were ones that I would consider to be dangerous.
00:24And would those be the ones that he took directly from the Bible repeatedly?
00:30I'm referring to the ones that he made about black women and black communities,
00:34the stereotyping, that stereotyped a whole group of people.
00:38So you would put him on a list of dangerous people that should, as the Southern Poverty?
00:45I don't designate groups.
00:48I'm just answering your question.
00:49Well, you've had opinions on everything the Democrats asked for.
00:51I just thought you might have an opinion on that.
00:53I shared my opinion about some of the things I heard he said, yes.
00:56Okay.
01:00Would you agree that a group could be good, have a great mission,
01:04do a lot of good things, but also commit crimes?
01:10Well, I mean, anything is possible.
01:13I think what we're talking about today is a specific organization.
01:15That was kind of a yes or no.
01:16It's a specific organization we're talking about, though,
01:19which is Southern Poverty Law Center.
01:20Your opinion is they can't commit crimes because they do good?
01:24My opinion is that we see a prosecution where we know that the Southern Poverty Law Center
01:30offered evidence and is asking for accountability about whether that exculpatory evidence was shown
01:35to a grand jury.
01:36That should concern all Americans.
01:38Okay.
01:38Mr. O'Neill, I'll ask you essentially the same question.
01:43Would you say that Southern Poverty Law Center does some good work, at least historically?
01:49Yes.
01:49And having looked at the evidence, would you say that it appears to be overwhelmingly evidence
01:56of criminal activity?
01:59I would direct audiences to page 10 of the indictment where there's a direct quote from an employee
02:07saying, I certify that I am the sole owner of the above-named proprietorship.
02:12This is a statement to a bank in December of 2016.
02:16And then the statement from then-Chief Executive Officer of the SPLC, Margaret Long,
02:23who said that the accounts below listed were open for the benefit of the Southern Poverty Law Center
02:28operations and operated under the center's authority.
02:31Okay.
02:31So what you have is actual evidence of bank fraud.
02:36I'd say it's black and white.
02:37Okay.
02:38So long as the quotes from the indictment are accurate, I have not seen the unknown.
02:42Well, people will go to jail if it turns out that, you know, that in fact it was true,
02:49but they've indicted them.
02:50So, you know, both sides are playing high risk, but it appears as though the evidence is overwhelming.
02:58Ms. Wiley, did you ever hear of the Jewish Defense League?
03:01Are you familiar with them?
03:03I'm not familiar with them.
03:04Okay.
03:05Anyone else familiar with them?
03:07You are.
03:08Mr. O'Neill, you're familiar with them.
03:09They go back to the days of New York City and going after basically white supremacist groups,
03:16anti-Semitic groups.
03:18Yes.
03:19Would it surprise you to know that Irv Rubin and Earl Kruger both went to prison for attempting
03:24to blow up my office in 2001?
03:28I was not aware of this, but it wouldn't surprise me.
03:31Earl Kruger later died in prison.
03:37Irv died before being tried, but the other was convicted and eventually actually confessed.
03:46Sorry to hear that.
03:47Here's a group you know of.
03:49They have a history of fighting anti-Semitism, something that's been mentioned on the other
03:54side and that obviously still exists in this country, as does racism.
03:59So you can be a good group, and yet you can have criminal activity, an activity that flies
04:05in the face of what you say you stand for.
04:08Yes.
04:10Mr. Wiley, I asked you that question for a reason.
04:14Dr. Swan here has, in fact, a history of being falsely accused, a history of being gone after.
04:23Mr. Perkins has given these examples.
04:26The other side has spent a lot of time here today trying to tell us that it's all motivated
04:33because somehow we're persecuting people in this administration.
04:39Do you have any evidence, not anecdotally, that, oh, they picked them?
04:43Do you have any evidence that, in fact, Southern Poverty did not, in fact, commit these crimes?
04:50Do you have any firsthand evidence of that?
04:52Yes or no, please.
04:54Well, the Southern Poverty Law Center has a motion before the court right now which actually
04:59says that the Department of Justice admitted that they knew that the bank's new Southern
05:07Poverty Law Center owned the accounts.
05:09That is evidence in the public record that will be tried in court.
05:12I will look forward to that in trial, and I want to thank all the witnesses today for bringing
05:18out the fact that we should, in fact, this committee should be looking at these not-for-profits
05:24and whether, in fact, they have deviated from their mission.
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