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Transcript

00:00Right now, he defeated Thomas Massey. He had to spend an enormous amount of money.

00:05His advisors are probably all telling him, you're so great, look at you, and also you won the Indiana

00:10races. But what that also does is that means he just thinks he's a winner. Totally. He thinks that

00:16he is crushing it and that he's still as powerful as he was, and this is not the electorate that's

00:20voting in November. No, and it's, you know, he keeps being obsessed with like that one moment

00:24where I think CNN showed some poll of like people who consider them, you know, diehard MAGA are

00:29100 percent behind him. Right. That was sort of like tautological. That is who he did. That's

00:36who he's his audience is now. And that's all he cares about. And that but, you know, elections

00:42are not that's not the only people that matter. So we'll see. No, it's all right. It's not at all

00:49the electorate that is going to be voting in all these states in a couple of months. So may he

00:53just

00:53stay in his narrow little prism where everybody tells him he's a good boy. We'll see. We'll see

00:58if that happens. Anyway, we'll keep covering it. It's great to see you in D.C. earlier today. Yeah.

01:04Okay. As you all know, because you just maybe you're watching, maybe you've been clicking on

01:09blue sky or wherever you're looking. It is a big election night in six states where voters

01:14cast their ballots in a bunch, a bunch of key primary races. We're following all of them. Polls

01:20have now closed in most of those states. Results are coming in. They've been coming in. They're

01:25going to keep coming in. We're going to keep bringing you updates. And there are a lot of

01:29important races that we're following tonight. I'm going to go through a bunch of them here

01:32so you know what we're tracking. In Georgia, three Republicans have been locked in a bitter

01:37primary battle to see who will run against incumbent Senator John Ossoff. And remember, John Ossoff,

01:43he is one of the most, if not the most heavily target Democratic incumbents on the ballot this year.

01:50And we're going to learn at least more tonight about who he may face in November. We're also

01:56following the results from both the Democratic and Republican primaries in Georgia's crucial race

02:01for governor. Also in Georgia, we're getting results from the two hotly contested races for

02:05seats on the state's Supreme Court after two liberal backed candidates received very big endorsements

02:12from former President Barack Obama and former Vice President Kamala Harris. But the most closely

02:17watched race tonight was probably the Republican primary for Kentucky's fourth congressional district,

02:23where Donald Trump and his billionaire allies waged a quite a retribution campaign to unseat

02:30conservative incumbent incumbent Congressman Thomas Massey. And tonight, the Associated Press projects

02:35that Trump backed challenger Edgar Rain has defeated Thomas Massey in that primary. Nearly $33 million,

02:41I should note, was spent in that race, making it the most expensive congressional primary race in

02:49history. Donald Trump was so determined to oust Massey, he personally attacked him multiple times

02:55on True Social, just in the last few days at events, and on X, calling him things like the worst

03:01congressman and a rhino and urging voters repeatedly to replace him. He even dispatched his Secretary of

03:09Defense, Pete Hegseth to campaign for Massey's opponent, of course, while the country is in the middle

03:15of a war. The point is this, it's clear that Trump really, really, really wanted Thomas Massey out of

03:23office. And tonight, after his backers spent millions and he had his, used his own bully pulpit over and

03:29over again to attack Massey, he succeeded. So why did Trump spend so much energy to defeat a conservative

03:36congressman in this Republican primary? Well, I think Thomas Massey actually said it best himself.

03:44I vote with Republicans 91% of the time. And the 9% I don't, they're taken up for pedophiles,

03:50starting another war, or bankrupting our country.

03:54That about says it all. Thomas Massey is one of the most conservative members of Congress,

03:58Congress. But he has refused to stick by Donald Trump on two fundamental issues, very big ones this

04:04year, where Trump has betrayed his own MAGA base. I mean, Massey co-sponsored the resolution that forced

04:10the release of the Epstein files. And he's been a vocal critic of the administration's efforts to

04:15cover them up. You see him there on the screen with a bunch of survivors. And he's also opposed Trump's

04:20war with Iran and even co-sponsored the war powers resolution to end that war. Tonight in his concession

04:25speech, Massey touted his work on exposing Epstein's enablers and co-conspirators and hinted that there

04:31may be more to come. We need basic decency. That's what the Epstein Files Transparency Act was all

04:39about. By the way, today is the six month anniversary of the Epstein Files Transparency Act. We've taken out

04:46two dozen CEOs, an ambassador, a prince, a prime minister, a minister of culture.

05:00And that was just six months. I got seven months left in Congress.

05:09That guy does not seem to be slinking away. He almost seemed gleeful about the seven months he

05:14has left in Congress to do a lot more on that particular issue. So yeah, I mean, the guy has

05:19been a very loyal conservative on nearly every issue. I probably disagree with him on a lot of

05:25policy issues, a whole host of them, maybe the majority. He's also been a huge thorn in the side

05:30of Trump. And that is why Trump wanted Massey out of office. So for Donald Trump, tonight's primary

05:35is supposed to be all about loyalty. I mean, he wants to show that Republicans who are not

05:40unflinchingly loyal to him and his administration will pay a price. That's what it's about.

05:45He's already ousted Republican Senator Bill Cassidy for his heretical vote to convict Trump over

05:50January 6th. And he did the same to several Indiana state lawmakers who bucked his agenda on

05:55redistricting. The message is supposed to be that the only way to stay in Trump's good graces

06:01is by showering him with praise, supporting whatever he does and telling him he's just amazing all around.

06:08But here's the thing. It doesn't actually always work like that with Trump.

06:12Now, don't get me wrong. Republicans who oppose Trump will probably wind up facing some mean

06:16tweets and a Trump-endorsed primary opponent and maybe millions spent against them. Just ask Thomas

06:21Massey. But Republicans who stay loyal to Trump don't always get rewarded for their so-called good

06:26behavior either. I mean, just consider the case of Texas Senator John Cornyn, who has embarrassed

06:31himself over and over again trying to stay in Trump's good graces.

06:36In the Senate, Cornyn votes with Donald Trump 99 percent of the time, even more than his fellow

06:42Texas Senator Ted Cruz. He posts cringy photos of himself on social media. You see there. There's

06:48the one on your screen. That's him reading Trump's book, just hoping that Trump will notice him and

06:54tell him he's a good boy. Now, this year, Cornyn even introduced a bill to rename a highway after

07:00Donald Trump. But none of that, none of that seemed to matter to Donald Trump, because despite all of

07:05that, Trump announced just today that he will endorse John Cornyn's primary opponent, Ken Paxton,

07:11in the Texas Republican Senate runoff next week. And Trump made that decision despite all of

07:18Cornyn's humiliating attempts to suck up to him and despite the fact that Ken Paxton is a deeply

07:24flawed candidate. I mean, this guy has spent years under a massive cloud of indictments, impeachment,

07:31whistleblower allegations, repeated allegations of misconduct and abuse of office. And that doesn't

07:37even touch on the allegations of adultery from his former wife who filed for divorce and what she

07:41called biblical grounds. So, yeah, that guy Trump just endorsed. Well, he might have a harder time

07:48holding onto that seat. And that's why Senate Republicans spent months trying to convince Trump

07:53to back Cornyn and why they're now reportedly livid about Trump's decision. I mean, after Trump's

07:59endorsement, Senator Lindsey Graham told reporters that he thinks the Texas Senate race will cost

08:04Republicans three times as much money with Ken Paxton as their nominee. And that's money that

08:09Republicans won't be able to spend in other races, like, say, defending Ohio Senator and Trump

08:14loyalist John Husted in his race against former Senator Sherrod Brown, or defending Alaska Senator

08:20and Trump loyalist Dan Sullivan in his race against Mary Piltola. Trump isn't just betraying John Cornyn.

08:27He seems to be portraying all of his loyal, spineless supporters in the Senate. What Trump has demonstrated

08:34tonight is that no amount of loyalty can save you from Trump's impetuous decisions. Republicans can choose

08:42to stand up to Trump or worship the ground he walks on, but nothing will save them from the chaotic

08:47whims of a mad king. All right, let's get straight to MSNOW chief data reporter Ali Velshi, who's at the

08:53big board. He's been there all night. Okay, Ali, we know Thomas Massey lost, but tell us what happened

08:59in Kentucky tonight. Yeah, lots of stories. We're covering very closely in Pennsylvania, Kentucky,

09:04Georgia, Alabama, Idaho, and Oregon. But let's go to Kentucky. Very interesting night.

09:08This is the first district in Kentucky. That's James Comer. He's an incumbent.

09:13As you'd expect, he's been called with 81 percent, 62 percent of the votes in, but he's got 88 percent

09:18of the vote over there. But that's Kentucky one. Let's go to Kentucky four, which is the one you've

09:22been talking about. We now have 96 percent of the vote in. And Comer, Thomas Massey is losing by about

09:2810 percent in this district. In fact, if you go down to the county level, you see the three most

09:33populous counties, which are, you know, the Cincinnati area counties. Boone County, which

09:39is where Pete Hegseth went on behalf of Donald Trump. They say that he went on behalf of himself.

09:45But Pete Hegseth went to campaign for Ed Galrine, who is the Trump-endorsed candidate.

09:5110 percent gain with 99 percent of the vote in. Galrine's ahead by 10 percent. In Kenton County,

09:58again, 52 to 47. It's a little bit closer there. In Campbell County, the third most populous county,

10:04again, within five points, but Galrine winning over there. And then one of the other more popular

10:08populous counties on the western side of the state, near Louisville, 89 percent of the vote in,

10:14again, 52-47. So it's pretty decisive. That's done. Ed Galrine is the winner in there. But there are a

10:20number of other places that are kind of interesting to watch. If you look at Georgia, there's an interesting

10:25vote going on in Georgia. It is a state Supreme Court vote. Take a look at this. There are two

10:31of

10:31them. In one of them, this is nonpartisan, but the person in blue-purple here is the liberal.

10:37The person in the orange color is the conservative. The conservative being called Sarah Warren in one

10:44of the two seats. But take a look at the other seat, which is much closer. 43 percent of the

10:51vote is in

10:52Miracle Rankin, the more liberal candidate, is behind by 80,000 votes. But take a look at this.

10:58Fulton County, which is the most populous county, it splits Atlanta. No votes in in Fulton County yet.

11:05We've just found out that Fulton will come in probably no earlier than 11 percent. If you look

11:10at all the races in Georgia right now, you'll see that Fulton is not in. So we're going to see

11:16how that changes. And what you might see in that state Supreme Court race is the liberal pulling ahead.

11:21Again, if I go to the whole state and I look at the GOP primary, Burt Jones, who is the

11:27Trump

11:27endorsed candidate, is advancing to the primary against Rick Jackson. None of them getting 50

11:32percent of the vote. Take a look at Brad Raffensperger. He's way behind, coming in a

11:37very, very distant third. On the Democratic side, the Democratic gubernatorial candidate,

11:42again, 41 percent of the vote is in. Not enough to call it. Keisha Lance Bottoms is well ahead of

11:48all

11:48her other competitors. Her lead is 230,000. She's a former mayor of Atlanta. She's at 60 percent. Her

11:55closest competitor is at 14.4 percent. Again, the Associated Press made a decision based on

12:00information they're getting that it's too early to call that. But take a look at this once again.

12:05Like everywhere else in Georgia, there are zero votes in from Fulton County. There was a shooting

12:09in the county earlier today, so they delayed voting by four hours. As a result, we will not start

12:15getting numbers there until 11 p.m., but that'll make a couple of the races pretty decisive. One

12:21final thing I wanted to tell you about going out to Pennsylvania, where there was elections as well

12:25tonight. The gubernatorial race there, the GOP primary has been won by Stacey Garrity. She was

12:30uncontested, but there was this movement to write Doug Mastriano in. You remember Doug Mastriano?

12:36Ran for Senate, lost by more than 20 points. But he's as MAGA as they get. Remember, he went to

12:42Arizona to try and figure out how those ninja people were figuring out their election. So

12:47interesting case here. Josh Shapiro, obviously, is the Democratic candidate. Not only very popular,

12:53but Josh Shapiro gets a lot of Republican support in that state as well. But there was some little

12:58movement on the Republican side to see if Mastriano would run. Republicans in Pennsylvania have

13:03decided to run still a MAGA candidate, but a slightly more moderate version of one. I don't

13:09think it's going to change the math in Pennsylvania all that much in the end, though.

13:13So many races we're watching. We're coming back to you, Ali, in a little bit to check in and see

13:17where some of these races are developing. The Georgia State Supreme Court races are really

13:21interesting. If I'm correct here, I think one of those hasn't flipped in like 100 years, but it would

13:26be a very big deal if one did. So we'll keep watching that. But thank you for everything you do.

13:31We'll be back to check in on your data. We love some data. Okay, joining me now are two of

13:35my

13:36favorite people to talk to on a big election night about politics and all the things. Tim

13:40Miller is, of course, the host of the Bulwark podcast. Jim Messina was campaign manager for

13:45Barack Obama's 2012 re-election campaign. Okay, so obviously there are a ton of primaries going on.

13:51We're going to track them all as we get results. If we get them while we're talking, we'll talk about

13:55those two. But let's just start with Kentucky. Jim, let me go to you first. What do you make of

14:00Massey's defeat? What should people take away from that?

14:07Oh, Jim, you may be unmuted. Let's see if you can. Oh, go ahead. There we go. Technology. Go ahead.

14:13Donald Trump runs the modern Republican Party, Jen, for better or for worse. You know, here's a guy who

14:18has a 99 percent voting record with Donald Trump, and yet they still take him out because of the

14:24Epstein stuff and because he fought with him on war powers. You know, the problem is when you own

14:29the party, the party then owns you. And in these swing races that Tim and I are looking at so

14:35closely, Donald Trump's numbers, Jen, have just fallen through the floor. He carried non-college

14:41white voters by 36 points. He's now eight points underwater. You just don't see movement like that.

14:46So coming into November, these candidates are Republican candidates are just in a terrible

14:53place because they have to continue to show the field to you talked about so eloquently earlier

14:58and yet try to reach out to these independent voters that are walking away from Donald Trump

15:03in almost historic numbers. That is a that is a dance on a knife's edge that they are unlikely to

15:11be able to do in November. Yeah, I mean, the electorate I was talking to Chris a little bit about

15:15this.

15:15The electorate is very different from that district, from what the electorate will be in

15:19November. It still does show Trump has power among his core base. Let me ask you, Tim, just about the

15:25money aspect of this, because, I mean, this was the most expensive House race in history. Thirty

15:30three million dollars was spent a lot by outside groups. I mean, a pack. There's a lot of different

15:36groups that were spending money here, I should say. It's in one on one sense. If you're a billionaire,

15:41I guess it could tell you, well, we could spend a lot of money and we can buy races on

15:44Trump's behalf.

15:45But resources aren't unlimited. What do you think kind of this means for the rest of the field? Or

15:51as we look at the big map leading up to November? Yeah. Well, look, I think it's pretty telling. I

15:59agree with Jim about his assessment of, you know, what this augurs for the general election, which is

16:04not great for for the party. But I kind of have a slightly different take about what we learned from

16:10the Massey results tonight. I mean, the last I looked was 83 percent of the vote was in. He had

16:15about 45 percent. That's pretty good for somebody that bucked Trump directly and consistently and

16:25unapologetically on a couple of core issues being being Epstein in Iran. We don't really have another

16:31example of something like this in the last 10 years with Trump. And you have Liz Cheney that votes to

16:37impeach Trump and then becomes a major Trump critic. And then she kind of runs a quixotic campaign

16:43in Wyoming where she gets absolutely slaughtered. Most of the people that step out from Trump then

16:49resign from Congress or the Senate and don't go back in front of the voters. You have people like

16:54Cassidy who will buck Trump and then pretend like they loved him all along and go back in front of

16:59the

16:59you know, go back into his good graces. Massey was a kind of a unique case where he bucked Trump,

17:05held the line on his position on him, ran a real race, and he loses by 10 percent, which isn't,

17:12you know, it's not that close, but it's not nothing with the most money ever spent in a

17:17congressional primary going against him. And you mentioned a lot of that was from APEC. There

17:20are other groups as well, other MAGA groups. To me, that shows Trump with like a little bit of a

17:27weakening grasp on the party. Not that it's over, not that the party is no longer a Trump cult, but

17:31I think it's a meaningful step in a direction away from Trump's control of the party and shows that

17:37maybe his grasp is weakening a little bit. Yeah, that's an interesting, thank you for giving us

17:42a little uplift there. But I mean, it's true, they spent so, that's a huge amount of money in a

17:47House

17:47district to have spent against him and we shouldn't minimize that. I wanted to, I've been dying to talk to

17:52you both about Texas because obviously the primary is not coming up in Texas until next week. But

17:58today, I mean, this could have been a day where Trump, where the guy Trump wanted to win defeated

18:03Thomas Massey and that would have been the political news, I guess. And instead he endorsed Ken Paxton

18:08and the Senate is basically pissed off at him. Jim, what do you, why did he endorse Paxton? What is

18:14this all about? What's your take on it? I think two things. One, he thinks Paxton is going to win

18:19the

18:19primary and he wants to be on the right side. And two, you know, he's been long criticizing John

18:25Cornyn for being a rhino and for being too close to the Democrats. That would be a very big surprise

18:31to any Democrat who's dealt with John Cornyn. John Cornyn's voting percentage with Donald Trump was

18:3699.2, Jen. So, you know, I don't think he's exactly a rhino. But what I think it means, back

18:42to your

18:42money point, is this race is going to be another hundred million dollars the Republicans are going to have

18:48to put in to try to help Ken Paxton in the general election. And I know they have a lot

18:54of money,

18:54but when you spend thirty two million dollars to beat Massey and now you're going to have to spend

18:59a hundred million dollars to protect a state where the Republicans haven't lost a statewide election

19:04since 1994. At some point, this just becomes math and it becomes really hard to protect all these

19:11incumbents. Some of the races you talked about earlier in Alaska, in Ohio, their seat in Iowa,

19:16their seat in North Carolina. There's just not enough money if you're going to spend a hundred

19:21million dollars in the great state of Texas. Tim, I mean, we heard from Lindsey Graham and a bunch

19:28of people in the Senate who seem pretty irritated about this endorsement and the money that would be

19:33spent and how much money would have to be spent to get Ken Paxton over the finish line, if even

19:38they

19:39can do it. There's been this theory that it's easier for Tallarico to run against Paxton than to run

19:44against Cornyn. Now, Cornyn is also a creature of D.C., which is very unpopular. Paxton is hugely

19:49flawed and has many, many ethical problems. Where do you come down on it and what do you think this

19:55all means for, I mean, the general election? Yeah, I think Paxton is a slightly easier opponent

20:02than Cornyn, maybe not quite as much as the conventional wisdom is kind of for the reasons that

20:07you lay out there. You know, if you're a Republican in Texas, you really want to turn out the MAGA

20:12base. You know, the number of, you know, kind of suburban Dallas and Houston, Mitt Romney Republicans

20:20is withering. Some of them still exist, but a lot of them have started to vote for Democrats at this

20:26point. I think a lot of those will already be Tallarico voters. And so, you know, I think that maybe

20:31you lose more with Paxton. But this is kind of on the margins, maybe 1% difference, maybe 2%

20:37at the

20:38most between Paxton and Cornyn. But look, I think given how unpopular Trump is, I think his numbers

20:43have to get lower. A lot depends on what the economic situation is, what kind of campaign

20:47Tallarico runs. But I think that Texas is potentially in play this year. And, you know,

20:53the Republicans, as Jim said, are going to have to waste a bunch of money in this race. And by

20:58the way,

20:58they've already wasted a bunch of money. And that's not the reason they're all mad at Trump.

21:02They spent, I think, $70 million, I'm going from memory, to try to boost Cornyn during this primary.

21:08So all of that money, you know, was just flushed down the toilet for no reason. And we should just

21:13add for fun, what a humiliating end of a career for John Cornyn, you know, who came into the Senate

21:19running an ad campaign where he called himself Big Bad John. And he had a big old cowboy hat on.

21:24And instead he ends like groveling for Trump's endorsement and doesn't get it anyway.

21:29And even after he didn't get the endorsement, his post was like, I still love you. I still love

21:34you. It was basically my summary of it. OK, Tim, Jim, stay right where you are. There's more results

21:39coming in. We're going to talk about that. A little bit also about what Thomas Massey had to say in

21:44his

21:44concession speech, which I thought was pretty interesting. We'll be right back.

21:52Tonight, Republican Congressman Thomas Massey's concession speech fit the mold of

21:56neither typical Republican or Democratic candidates concession speech. He's had his work on the Epstein

22:02files and railed against Fox News and Trump's war with Iran and Trump's ballroom while in the same

22:07speech railing against vaccines and making trans jokes and toasting with a glass of raw milk. It was

22:14quite a mad lib, this whole speech. Now, Massey's lost tonight in the most expensive primary in American

22:19history in a race where the president himself used everything at his disposal to try to force Massey out

22:24of office. Well, I'm sure this race will be picked apart by pundits in a lot of ways for a

22:28very long

22:29time. But tonight, Massey had a message he wanted to send about all the people who did come out to

22:35support him despite Trump and despite all the money spent to oust him. Listen, if you always vote with

22:43the president, if the if the legislative branch always votes with the president, we do have a king.

22:50If the legislative branch always vote which votes whichever way the wind is blowing, then we have

22:57mob rule. But if the legislative branch and the representatives and the senators that serve with

23:04that always follow the Constitution, we have a republic. There is a yearning in this country for

23:14somebody who will vote for principles over party. We're back with Tim Miller and Jim Messina. I don't

23:23know about the chugging raw milk and anti-vaccine, but there were some good moments in that speech.

23:28So one of the things that struck me about that, and we just played part of it always, and Jim,

23:33let me start with you, is, I mean, Thomas Massey isn't isn't going away. Bill Cassidy has made clear

23:37he isn't going away. I mean, after losing over the weekend, Cassidy came out against ballroom funding and

23:42then voted with Democrats on a war powers resolution. I remember, you know, we worked

23:47together when you were part of like whipping votes for health care and you're trying to get

23:52Republicans on board. You're trying to get coalitions together. That's true when you were

23:56a Senate chief of staff, too. How much does that matter that you have a couple of these members,

24:00maybe more than just them, who are pretty pissed off and just they're going to do whatever

24:04they want to do right now? Oh, it matters a lot. And there's a saying in D.C.,

24:09beware of elected officials with political vendettas. And I think Donald Trump is about

24:15to find out that that is very true. You know, you have two members who just got defeated for

24:23seats they care very deeply about by the president of the United States, and they still have some time

24:26to make it very clear what they think. And your Kennedy example of him voting in the War Powers Act

24:32is a great example. I think it is very unlikely that we're not going to hear a whole bunch from

24:37both

24:37of these people. And they're going to spend the rest of their term, you know, being very clear

24:43of their displeasure with the president of the United States. And it's especially a big deal

24:46for Massey because Republicans barely have control of the House. They have, you know, they can't even

24:51get people together on some of the tightest votes they have. And so if Massey starts to walk away

24:57from them, it gets even harder to do anything here. So I think we're going to be in for a

25:02whole bunch

25:03of theater. Kennedy's the same. He can start voting against all Trump's nominees, object to

25:08unanimous consent. For those of us geeks who understand what that is in the United States

25:13Senate, it means they can't do anything if Kennedy decides to stop them. So we're about to have a

25:18whole bunch of fun with a couple of members who don't have anything to lose and a bunch of free

25:23time.

25:25Free Massey, I suppose, is where we're at here.

25:28Let me ask you, Tim. I mean, you hear these concession speeches and it's like there is a

25:34future of the Republican Party or there is a future party that it just doesn't look like this. I mean,

25:39some of the things I think we've learned over the past couple of days is if you go against Trump

25:43like Massey did, you'll face his ire. But Trump abandoning Cornyn also goes to show that no amount

25:48of loyalty you're sucking up to him will actually guarantee your safety in his coalition. So if you're

25:54a Republican looking to hold on to power or have power, I mean, what do you what do you do

25:59here?

26:00We're in a pickle. I think that if you're a Republican in a red state right now, you continue

26:06to stick with Trump because that's where the party members are, even if it's narrowing, as we saw in

26:12Kentucky. I think it's a tougher call if you're in a swing state, though. I noticed Trump's going to

26:16campaign for Mike Lawlor, who's an ultimate swing state or swing district rather candidate in New York.

26:22And so I guess he's making the bet to stick with Trump. I think that's pretty telling that he's

26:25still doing that. But look, things change in politics. And one other thing that you didn't

26:29play that happened in Massey's speech is some of the crowd started chanting at him 2028,

26:35President 2028. And I'm not going to be on here right now predicting that Thomas Massey is going

26:40to be the Republican nominee in 2028. But depending on how bad things go for Donald Trump the next two

26:46years, things can change dramatically. And like I mentioned in the first segment,

26:51I don't think 45% of the vote is nothing. I think people are very upset with him about the

26:56war in the Epstein files, just not enough to get to a majority yet. And Donald Trump ran in 2016,

27:02I would know better than anybody, as a direct assault on the Bush legacy in the party. Barack

27:07Obama, as Jim would know, ran in 2008, maybe not as a direct assault, but a critique of the

27:13Clinton establishment of the party. And both of them won two terms, not consecutive for Trump. And so

27:19I don't know, I think that there are some interesting lessons from Massey's, you know,

27:24results tonight, even in defeat. Well, we'll keep talking about it, I'm sure. Tim Miller,

27:29Jim Messina, thank you both for being here and tune on all these results with us.

27:33Okay, we've got Ali Velshi. We told you we'd come back to him. He's still standing by at the big

27:37board,

27:38still vest.

The Rachel Maddow Show 5/19/2026 [NEW] | MSNBC Breaking News Today May 19 2026

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